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This is an argument me and my friend can never complete. Who would win in this battle! Gandalf the White or Voldemort. I have said Gandalf the White but he says Voldemort and then we go about showing examples and stuff and neither can come before an answer.

So who wins?

VOldemort wins.

His avada Kadavra thing is unblockable just about, and is an instakill, as in it kills you in a matter of seconds.

Gandaplhs got nothing on that really.

Gandalf the white

Originally posted by Blaxican Hydra
VOldemort wins.

His avada Kadavra thing is unblockable just about, and is an instakill, as in it kills you in a matter of seconds.

Gandaplhs got nothing on that really.

Gandalf is a Maia spirit; he came back from the dead already as a more powerful person. That may work against a human but not against a divine spirit such as Gandalf the White.

*Gandalph comes back to life*


"I have returned to complete my task, VOldemort! Your power is-"

"Avada Kadavra!"

*Gandalph dies again.*

Repeat cycle and wash.

Originally posted by Blaxican Hydra
*Gandalph comes back to life*


"I have returned to complete my task, VOldemort! Your power is-"

"Avada Kadavra!"

*Gandalph dies again.*

Repeat cycle and wash.

That works against mortal man but against the divine spirits, that's another story. Plus Harry Potter managed to survive agains Voldemort as a mere child. Are you to say that the magic and power that Gandalf the White holds does not match that?

Except it wasn't Harry's doigns that saved him, it was his mother putting a love charm on him, a charm thought to be oen of the most pwoerful spells out their.

I highly doubt that anyoens goign to put a lvoe charm on a thousand year old man.

Plus, how "immortal" is gandalph? He died once, and he thougt their was a good chance he was goign to die again in Rotk. You'd think that if someone was as vastly powerful as it seems, they wouldn't be afraid of dying because of weak orcs.

Originally posted by Blaxican Hydra
Except it wasn't Harry's doigns that saved him, it was his mother putting a love charm on him, a charm thought to be oen of the most pwoerful spells out their.

I highly doubt that anyoens goign to put a lvoe charm on a thousand year old man.

Plus, how "immortal" is gandalph? He died once, and he thougt their was a good chance he was goign to die again in Rotk. You'd think that if someone was as vastly powerful as it seems, they wouldn't be afraid of dying because of weak orcs.

Weak orcs that outnumbered an army of 6,000: 1 to 10. With the terrible Ringwraiths close at hand. With Trolls and the men from the east. And the chances that Frodo might have been found/killed and the One Ring coming to Sauron.

Gandalf cast his own spell that saved his life against the Balrog in the mines of Moria. The strongest spell in "Harry Potter" isn't the strongest spell in Middle-Earth. Gandalf said "your staff is broken" and Saruman's staff broke. Saruman, a powerful wizard.

Gandalf also defeated Aragon, Legolas, and Gimli without trying to kill them. Gandalf was able to move about the land basically invisible. Gandalf is an immortal being that took on human form.

And how does that spell of Voldemort's work?

Weak orcs that outnumbered an army of 6,000: 1 to 10. With the terrible Ringwraiths close at hand. With Trolls and the men from the east. And the chances that Frodo might have been found/killed and the One Ring coming to Sauron.


Hm...thats funny. Him being immortal and all, why couldn't he just call down some lightning? Or use the flame of arnor?

Gandalf cast his own spell that saved his life against the Balrog in the mines of Moria

Hm..thats strange considering he died, and was brought back only to fulfill his last part in Middle Earth.

The strongest spell in "Harry Potter" isn't the strongest spell in Middle-Earth.
Unfounded and unsupported.

Gandalf said "your staff is broken" and Saruman's staff broke. Saruman, a powerful wizard.

Yeah this is the same fool who was also WTFpwnd by the Witch King, and was also in turn WTFpwnd by Sarumon not to long before that. I honestly don't find any of Gandalphs magic intresting.


Gandalf also defeated Aragon, Legolas, and Gimli without trying to kill them. Gandalf was able to move about the land basically invisible. Gandalf is an immortal being that took on human form.

Immortal? Than why does he die, and why does he think he mght very well die? Your contradicting yourself.

And how does that spell of Voldemort's work?

I myself am not sure, the book only describes it as near unblockable and an insta-kill.

Doesn't Voldemort's power come from his wand?

Whilst I am on ESB's side with this personally it is looked upon that Gandalf was sent back directly by Eru, not the Valar. Whilst the Valar were only concerned with that which lives in middle earth and their doing it is seen by many lore masters I know that to send Gandalf back would need a greater involvement of the most highest power. It is seen that Gandalf met Eru outside the circles of the world and was sent back soley by him.

In other areas the point about Voldermorts power being at least channeled through his wand is interesting I do not claim to be an expert on Harry Potter but I have no seen any instant where a wizard may use power especially the killing curse without use of a wand. Wheras I have seen evidence of Gandalf (please not the spelling with an f not a ph) using spells without using his staff. And ESB is quite right Gandalf and the Witch King never fought.

I think the only description of the killing curse I've read is that a green flash eminates from the tip of the wand, it strikes its target and the target falls down dead. As Gandalfs flesh could die this would kill his physical form but his spirit form would last on.

In other areas the point about Voldermorts power being at least channeled through his wand is interesting I do not claim to be an expert on Harry Potter but I have no seen any instant where a wizard may use power especially the killing curse without use of a wand. Wheras I have seen evidence of Gandalf (please not the spelling with an f not a ph) using spells without using his staff. And ESB is quite right Gandalf and the Witch King never fought.

The power comes from the wand. And Gandalf the White has proven already that he can easily disarmed (like he did Aragon) or destroy (like he did Saruman) objects even one like Saruman's staff which would be just like a wizard's wand.

So without the wand Voldermort would be essentially powerless.

Seems so. Every spell I have ever seen or heard about in Harry Potter involved the use of a wand.

Ah and if I remember was it Ron's or Neville's wand that breaks and has to be taped back together or something and all his spells start going even more wrong? Or am I making that up?

No, I think that happened.

I think Gandalf's more powerful.Voldy's nothin in front of him!

And what makes you think Gandalph can even break his wand?

HE was obviously more powerful than Aragorn and the rest of the fellowship, and because he defeated the Balrog and came back as white instead of grey he was able to break Sarumons Staff because of his new found power.

However simply saying Gandalph can break ANYONES staff no matter how powerful they are is just pure speculation, and as such needs proof to back up your statements.

Also, have we ever seen gandalph do any attacks out of his physical form? Have we seen any Mair attack anyone out of their phsycial form?

Actually, Voldemort doesn't need a wand to perform magic, there are courses how to learn and use magic without them, and Voldemort was one of the most gifted of all students, so he knew them pretty well. Harry, even when he didn't know any, used magic without a wand...

Ditto.

Yay for Gandalf

Gandalf wins, because Harry Potter sucks ass.

I absolutely love the type of magic (or Art) used in Middle-Earth compared to the ridiculous lightning flinging mages of other fantasy realms. LOTR magic is so sutle yet its power is greater than say Harry Potter's or D&D's. I think the fireballing mages ruin stories with their limitless spellflinging and invincibility.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I absolutely love the type of magic (or Art) used in Middle-Earth compared to the ridiculous lightning flinging mages of other fantasy realms. LOTR magic is so sutle yet its power is greater than say Harry Potter's or D&D's. I think the fireballing mages ruin stories with their limitless spellflinging and invincibility.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I absolutely love the type of magic (or Art) used in Middle-Earth compared to the ridiculous lightning flinging mages of other fantasy realms. LOTR magic is so sutle yet its power is greater than say Harry Potter's or D&D's. I think the fireballing mages ruin stories with their limitless spellflinging and invincibility.

So do I. Sometimes when LOTR uses magic you're like "didn't see that coming!!" but when it's with Harry Potter or D&D it's like "who didn't see that one coming?"

true, Harry does have a sort of blatent kind of magic about it. Gandalf is a little more subtle

Me and my friend have arguments about LOTR characters vs. HP characters all the time. I beleive Gandalf would win because he is impervious to weapons, (and yes the matter that comes out of a wand is a weapon) and he can creat a force-field around him. so even if voldemort was somehow able to shoot gandalf with avada kadavra, gandalf can just creat a forcefield.

This shouldn't even be compared.

The magic in Harry Potter is far more tangible and extreme than that of Lord of the Rings. In Potter, we have spells that outright kill or perform specific functions, whereas in LOTR they are more effects than functions.

For example, Avada Kedavra has the specific function of killing, whereas Gandalf relied on spells to weaken a bridge, set things on fire, etc.

As with the Force in the older Star Wars movies, magic in Lord of the Rings is relatively subtle.

and usually more powerful

I've just read this whole thread and cringed at some of these comments. Some of the people that posted comments on here are ignorant about information concerning LOTR (Blaxican Hydra in especial) probably because they've never touched any of Tolkien's books or seen the movie, or may have only seen the movie, which of course every LOTR fan knows deviates far from the book in many parts and skips much material from the book (understandably for the sake of time) thus it is a beautiful representation of the book, but not an ETIRELY true one.

I suggest you do actually read the trilogy before writing your comments on here, so that your opinions are based on FACTS instead of just your OPINION.

You can't actually compare the magic abilities of Gandalf against Voldemort, it's impossible. The books and films have very little in common. Infact, Tolkien didn't even like to call Gandalf's abilities 'magic' and he even denies that magic is very important in his world at all (thus why there is very little in the book). He made a point of saying (and I'm quoting the man himself here...) that he uses the word "wizard" to mean something "utterly distinct from sorcerer or magician" (from The Letters Of J.R.R. Tolkien edited by H. Carpenter with Christopher Tolkien, 159).

it is difficult to compare the two if we constrain it to being absolutely technical, but you could use your imagination I think. Be that as it may, Gandalf would totally kill Voldemort.

Maikahyandowen, I wasn't being technical. I was simply speaking off true facts. Imagination has nothing to do with it, Gandalf's world and Voldemorts world are TOTALLY different! That's just fact. Gandalf doesn't use magic in the way that Voldemort does (& visa versa), they're just too different to even be compared to one another. As I quoted in my last post, Tolkien doesn't even consider Gandalf to use "magic".

And for the record: GANDALF NEVER BATTLED THE WITCH KING. Here's the evidence, an excerpt from ROTK, The Siege of Gondor, the last pages:

Thrice he cried . Thrice the great ram boomed. And suddenly upon the last stroke the Gate of Gondor broke. As if stricken by some blasting spell it burst assunder; there was a flash of searing lightning, and the doors tumbled in riven fragments to the ground.

In rode the Lord of the Nazgul. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgul, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.

All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the free horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image in Rath Dinen.
'You cannot enter here,' said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. 'Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!'
The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.
'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, behind away in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark, Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.

The Sacred Fire, get your thoughts together and write them down in one post.

that'd be helpful.

I would but it didn't let me. Even though it says that there's a maximum of 10,000 characters it still didn't let me.

And if that's all that you two have to say about my post and my point then what are you doing in a forum??

For the record, he didn't "battle" him in the film, either. I haven't read all the posts, however; has someone said that in this thread?

BTW: Of course Gandalf would defeat Voldemort - he's an angelic-being!

Gandalf without a doubt.

no contest really

Originally posted by The Sacred Fire
I've just read this whole thread and cringed at some of these comments. Some of the people that posted comments on here are ignorant about information concerning LOTR (Blaxican Hydra in especial) probably because they've never touched any of Tolkien's books or seen the movie, or may have only seen the movie, which of course every LOTR fan knows deviates far from the book in many parts and skips much material from the book (understandably for the sake of time) thus it is a beautiful representation of the book, but not an ETIRELY true one.

i've read the Silmarrilion (sp?), The Hobbit, and the Lotr Trilogy at least five times each. I'd recommend that you at least ask first, before making such assumptions.

can't assume much of anything

I assumed you hadn't read Tolkien's work from the wrong information in your posts, your lack of knowledge of LOTR and Gandalf and your ridiculous arguement against Gandalf.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Gandaplhs got nothing on that really.

1) You can't even spell Gandalf

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
*Gandalph comes back to life*


"I have returned to complete my task, VOldemort! Your power is-"

"Avada Kadavra!"

*Gandalph dies again.*

Repeat cycle and wash.

2) Your HP easykill spells do not work like that against an immortal angel/being/spirit.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
I highly doubt that anyoens goign to put a lvoe charm on a thousand year old man.

Plus, how "immortal" is gandalph? He died once, and he thougt their was a good chance he was goign to die again in Rotk. You'd think that if someone was as vastly powerful as it seems, they wouldn't be afraid of dying because of weak orcs.

3) Gandalf was loved by many people in ME, especially elves. I'm sure he wouldn't have much trouble. Besides not everyone in ME can use magic like in HP so it is actually much more exciting and powerful when you do see it.

4) Immortal mean immortal. He is not subject to death, everlasting, enduring, perpetual. At least his physical form (body) is mortal whereas his inward form (spirit) is immortal. Can you understand this? Alot of your comments about Gandalf's immortality indicate you don't.

5) Olorin was put in the guise of an old man (Gandalf). That means that he's completely subject to the same feelings, pleasures and fears of any other man in ME. So yes he is vastly powerful but he is essentially not physically sturdier than any other old man (although this too is debatable), so the fear of dying isn't so foreign. I repeat: physically he's mortal, but his spirit is immortal.

6) Gandalf was never afraid of dying again in RotK! If you're refering to the comment in the book where Denethor suggests that Gandalf is retreating because he is outmatched, Gandalf was simply being humble (one of his most admirable traits, heck he didn't even want to be one of the Istari because he thought he wasn't strong enough) and trying to diffuse Denethor's wrath (stemmed from his pride, which is always frustrating, especially when I watch the movie

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Weak orcs that outnumbered an army of 6,000: 1 to 10. With the terrible Ringwraiths close at hand. With Trolls and the men from the east. And the chances that Frodo might have been found/killed and the One Ring coming to Sauron. Hm...thats funny. Him being immortal and all, why couldn't he just call down some lightning? Or use the flame of arnor?

7) Again, the magic in HP and in LOTR are VERY different. Gandalf was forbidden by the higher powers that sent him to ME (Eru and the Valar) to not use open displays of power as a way of resisting Sauron. He was supposed to encourage the people of ME instead of using his great power to scare them. If he just cast spells and destroyed everything that he could how much of a battle would there be and what kind of struggle do you think there would be? There would be no story and Gandalf gets all the praise. Boring huh? Besides, people in ME would rely on him to win their battles for them, what kind of independence and future does that give them after he leaves in the Fourth Age?

That's the difficult thing with HP buffs, they don't seem to understand appreciate the sublties and articulate details of LOTR.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Gandalf said "your staff is broken" and Saruman's staff broke. Saruman, a powerful wizard.

Yeah this is the same fool who was also WTFpwnd by the Witch King, and was also in turn WTFpwnd by Sarumon not to long before that. I honestly don't find any of Gandalphs magic intresting.

8) Again Gandalf is spelt with an F not a PH! And for the record AGAIN: GANDALF NEVER BATTLED THE WITCH KING! In the movie that was not a battle, Peter Jackson only did that (and I know this for a fact) to give the WK more of a threatening presence in the movie. So the WK "breaking" Gandalf one way to do it. I don't agree with it and think there's other ways he could have achieved this but hey I didn't make it either so I have to accept it (I do this by skipping that scene )

It also never happened in the book. Read my other thread about this. Or read the last 2 pages in RotK: The Siege of Gondor. But since you've read it 5 times already, you should be very familiar with this scene.

9) Saruman didn't "WTFpwnd" Gandalf. It's not HP, it's LOTR. That (like the WK scene I talked about above) never happened in the book and was added for the same reason as the WK scene: to give Saruman power. And also once he snatched Gandalf staff (which I might add, the Istari's magic is somewhat attached to their staff's but not fully) he had more power and was so able to cane Gandalf.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Gandalf also defeated Aragon, Legolas, and Gimli without trying to kill them. Gandalf was able to move about the land basically invisible. Gandalf is an immortal being that took on human form.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Immortal? Than why does he die, and why does he think he mght very well die? Your contradicting yourself.

10) Read 4) Then read it again. Then if you still don't understand it, then tell me what you don't understand as it's actually very simple.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Also, have we ever seen gandalph do any attacks out of his physical form? Have we seen any Mair attack anyone out of their phsycial form?

11) OKAY I don't mean to be a total nitpick, but seriously if you had read the books as many times as you say you have, anyone would think that you could at least spell Maiar properly! I don't believe you at all.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
i've read the Silmarrilion (sp?), The Hobbit, and the Lotr Trilogy at least five times each. I'd recommend that you at least ask first, before making such assumptions.

12) For the love of Tolkien, it's The Silmarillion! I don't know if you're lazy or you just don't know how to spell it. But I don't believe that you've read The Silmarillion, The Hobbit and The LOTR Trilogy 5 times at all! You're not kidding me for a single second!

Therefore I didn't need to ask you as you see you got most of the information wrong. It's ok to ask if you don't know...

A simple typo. Hooray.



Doesn't have too. Gandalf's spirit is immortal, but his body is not. he's just as mortal as everyone else. he can bleed, he can be stabbed, etc. Yes, he can "Come back to life", however KMC vs. rules state that if a character can't fight back for an extended period of time, he loses the match.




Different types of love. There's a drastic difference between the love you have for your own creation, as opposed to the love one has with a mentor, or accomplice. And even if it was, as you stated, Lotr characters do not possess the same abilities that Harry Potter characters do, and vice versa.



I have already addressed this.



So? If your so powerful that you can effortlessly flick away an opponent, or number of opponents, you shouldn't have any need to have fear of dieing.



I was referring to his "death" speech with Pippin.




I agree, it would be boring. This is called PIS. However, that doesn't excuse the fact that Gandalf has not shown any real considerable feats that put him above people like Voldmort.



More PIS. This is all true, but irrelevant to this discussion. You are explaining why Gandalf doesn't go all out with his powers, but these reasons mean nothing. In a debate such as this, regardless of why or why not the character has no high showings of power, feats are required. If you can not provide feats that make Gandalf superior, or any reasons why Gandalf would win, Voldemort wins this by default.



I hate Harry Potter. I've only read books 1-5 and, coincidentally, quit after that. I was side tracked after book 5 by the Silmarillion.




Yeah yeah..



True. I did not find that out until after I read all of the books fully. More gayness brought fourth by the brilliant mind of Peter Jackson. he was a fool for not including "The Scouring" as well. Though at the same time I understand why he did it. Most of the people who didn't read the books didn't know any better. So eh. What can you do?





Feel free to take notice at those little numbers at the top of the posts. Look at the dates of then, and now. I didn't start seriously reading the books until last November.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
i've read the Silmarrilion (sp?), The Hobbit, and the Lotr Trilogy at least five times each. I'd recommend that you at least ask first, before making such assumptions.

You said this TODAY at 07:57 AM. That's what it says. Not November. Stop making excuses. You were wrong. Accept it and move on. Denying it just makes you even more stubborn to accept that you're wrong. Trust me I know.

Your "simple typos" are consistant. Typo's are usually one-offs. Your's arent. That's why I assumed.

You REALLY do not understand the concept of Gandalf's imm/mortality STILL. Go read The Silmarillion again because I'm jaded of explaining it to you yet again for you to just come up with more irrelevant questions that go under the subject of his imm/mortality or tell me that you "have already addressed this" when you have not.

Peter Jackson excluded The Scouring of the Shire because it detached away from the movement and feel of the movie. Just think: Eagles fly and pick Frodo & Sam up. Hobbits go home later and find a battle going on. Then they go through the preperations of war, etc. They win the battle then rebuild the Shire. Then get settled in again. THEN only after all that, they stick around for a bit longer in the Shire then leave with the rest of the crew to the Undying Lands. Just think this huge war with Sauron has just finished now they have to deal with the battle in the Shire. It just isn't ideal and it's kinda confusing for people who only know the movie (Just like it was easier for PJ to make it look like Saruman was controlling Caradhras while the Fellowship were going around it when really it was the WK. It makes it easier for people who've only seen the movie to understand it, even if it pulls away a bit from the truth. PJ has his reasons for doing what he did, he didn't take the project lightly. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about here, no bull shit, he was making it down the road from where I live for crying out loud!)

As far as Gandalf's magic goes. I have already explained why he does not use it openly. On the other hand if Gandalf and Voldemort were in their own world, like some kind of neutral arena (not from either LOTR or HP) and they had their complete power and form that they truly are (Gandalf's true form=Olorin. Voldemort's true form=I have no idea. Enlighten me?) that would be another conversation altogether.

I would then say this. Gandalf would win for one reason only:

J.K. Rowling said that Voldemort's boggart would be his own corpse. She also said: "Voldemort's fear is death, ignominious death. I mean, he regards death itself as ignominious. He thinks that it's a shameful human weakness, as you know. His worst fear is death". According to Rowling, the difference between Harry and Voldemort is that Harry accepts mortality, and thus Harry is in the end stronger than his nemesis: "he real master of Death accepts that he must die, and that there are much worse things in the world of the living."

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Voldemort#Attributes)

SO THEN the question would be "who is magically stronger: Gandalf or Harry Potter?' And I know we would all agree that it's Gandalf.

Besides this is all really irrelevant as we are just using our imagination to debate over something that would NEVER EVER happen. But if it did, Gandalf would win anyway because:

1) Both Harry and Voldemort are mortals and Gandalf is immortal.

2) Gandalf is on the good side, whereas Voldemort is on the evil side (you know what I mean, one has good and the other evil motives). Everyone knows that good usually triumphs over evil in fantasies. Simply because the people fighting for the good side are loved and respected by most people. Whereas people fighting for the evil side are feared and only obey them out of fear of being tormented, degraded, hurt or killed. That's why almost 80% of the voters on this poll have said because they are naturally/subconciously drawn to the good side (plus for their own personal reasons of course).

That's all I have to say about it because as far as I have read there's no evidence to discuss it further or believe different.

I repeat: Stop making excuses. You were wrong. Accept it and move on. Denying it just makes you even more stubborn to accept that you're wrong. Trust me I know.

And I promise I'll lay off if you do

I wasn't referring to that, you tool. I was referirng to all the simple grammar mistakes and errors I said in the arument that you've been quoting, which was WAY back in August LAST YEAR. Read.



Want my advice? NEVER assume.



I have already addressed this. Either refute it, or explain why my reasoning is flawed. Or don't. But don't throw your sh*t around talking down to me and assuming I don't know what I'm talking about because you can't counter it, or it does't make sense to you.



HENCE why I said I can understand why he did it. Read.




I don't care if you do, honestly, because I do too.



And I have already addresed it.




but she didn't say "magically" stronger. She just said stronger, which is ambigous. She could mean magically stronger, or mentally stronger, or even physically stronger





No.. I'm using actual feats to back Voldemart up. You are using theories. "Well, if Gandalf was allowed to use his full abilities.." Which is faulty because, since we haven't actually seen Gandalf's true abilities, we have no way to compare. All we can go off of is what we see him and other Wizards do in the books, which overall isn't superior to what Voldemart can do.




Only his spirit is mortal. his regular body can be "destroyed", after which point he can be reincarnated. But it's not instantaneous like Wolverine's regenration, and as such as far as this site's rules are concerned, it would be the equivelent of Gandalf being knocked out, which is enough to score a win for Voldemort. VS. fights don't have to be a fight to the death. if character B can't get up and keep on fighting after he is attacked, character A wins.



But that is PIS (Plot-induced stupidity), someething that happens because in order to further the plot. Saying that Gandalf would win because in the movies and stories the bad guys never would does't fly here.



Quit the holier them thou attitude. You've been owned. Accept it and move on. Denying it just makes you even more stubborn to accept your wrong. You should know.

C WAT I DID THAR!?!?!!?1198822!!ELEVEN!!1

Originally posted by The Sacred Fire
8)spelt

The Sacred Fire, before you make fun of someone for their spelling skills, make sure you can spell yourself. Spelt is a species if wheat..

To add, you're allowed to have an opinion and a discussion but tone it down a notch. This thread was created for people to vote on and elaborate on who they vote for, but you're making it seem like no one's opinion but your own is right just because someone disagreed with you..

Blax_Hydralisk, no one said that Olorin as Gandalf could not win. He never used his full extent of power (that he wasn't given by the Valar and Eru while in ME) in LOTR, and so yeah you're right we don't know what it is so we can't say.

I was not owned. But I'm not going to discuss this anymore with you because it's obvious now that you have your set opinion that isn't goin to change any millenia soon (the same said for me, except I've got an open mind). Plus nothing has REALLY been addressed/discussed.

Kelly_Bean, I was pointing out Blaxs' spelling mistakes of the LOTR names, places, etc because they were consistant. Enough that it's distracting, and consistant enough to assume he really couldn't spell them. I don't know if I SPELT it that way, don't think I did and can't find where I said it because I actually do proofread and edit my posts before I send them

Also, thanks for your POV guys, didn't mean to come across so arrogantly. I can accept your opinions though I don't think it's good to be so stuck in them so to close your mind off to new ones which is probably why I came off that way.

As for this whole debate, we could fight till we are blue in the faces, probably won't change anything. You see the sky blue I see it black. I can accept that and move on to other debates.

Originally posted by The Sacred Fire
I was not owned. But I'm not going to discuss this anymore with you because it's obvious now that you have your set opinion that isn't going to change any millenia soon (the same said for me, except I've got an open mind).

My mind is just as open as yours. However, I require feats and hard evidence, as opposed to what-ifs and logical assumptions. I just dislike assumptions as a whole.

Fair enough Blax. I can easily give you both of those, but I just think we can agree to disagree and let the polls do the talking

Fine. Polls are biased, anyway.

Also, seeing as this is a Lord of the Rings forum, Gandalf will win in the poll. Were you to place the same exact poll in the Harry Potter forum, Voldie would win. That's just how it works- 99% of the time people will defend their fandom. And those who belong to both simply have fun playing devils advocate for their own amusement, depending on their mood.

I don't like polls much, because they never really mean much. Some people simply click things for the sake of clicking things. -shrugs-

Eh, exactly.

True, Elessea.

Although like I said, I think most people are naturally drawn to the 'good-side', they like good to triumph over bad and this poll may or may not reflect that.

erm...if a little wizard dude called Potter can compete with Voldemort then I think Gandalf the most awesome wizard ever could whoop his ass.

My point exactly

Poor Voldie dies.

if you know anything about gandalf then u would realise he is an angel, is not allowed to use full potential (freedom of will) and if they were fighting thanthey would be in the same universe so then avadra kadarvra would be known to gandalf
staffs beat wands
gandalf doesnt need to shout out his spells
gandalf has so much more experience

He's not an angel, he's a Maiar names Mythrandil. And he would be brougt back from Arda until he defeated Voldemort. He'd be smart enough to destroy all Horcruxes also.

How would he even know about them? the only reason Dumbledore knew about them was extensive research into Voldie's past and knowledge about him as a child.

Indeed, Gandalf or the Maia named Olorin in the West (Valinor) Mithrandir by the Elves was very powerful. But even assuming the two would meet, if he did not win by his power alone in the initial meeting I think Gandalf would die and stay dead.

The reason he was bought back in the books was because of his sacrifice, because he offered his life to give the others a chance to survive. It was only he who could have held back that Balrog and he gave his life willingly to do so. As such he was taken up by a "higher authority" (higher than the Valar) and enhanced and returned. I doubt this divine intervention would occur in any other circumstance.

All that is by the by, my point being that as much as I like Gandalf the "he'd just come back from the dead" argument is a little flimsy as it was an exception when it happened. Not the rule.

Voldemort wins.

Gandalf, much like many of the "uber" character's in LotR, has power that is only implied or alluded to, his feats do not begin to compare to that of Voldemort's.

Why are you here? =O

And uh... I'd be careful if I were you, saying stuff like that. The Secret Fire is around here somewhere...

I just kinda wandered in here one day lol.

And what I say is fact. People like to hype up Gandalf, Saruman, or Sauron to the point where they can fight actual powerful characters like Palpatine, Ganondorf, Voldemort, or even friggin Superman(I wish I was joking), but fact is...They never did much that was as impressive as their opponents.

The two magics aren't strictly comparable, with Tolkiens universe being more subtle in magics use and potency. Tolkien says himself that Gandalf can, if he must act as a sort of angel to aid in situations but does so sparingly and with little un-nessecary Flair.

In contrast Voldemort, and JKR's style of magic is very overt and very fancy. Even if the two are compared as equals Voldemort would be perceived as stronger magically, as we see more of his magical strength in the text.

So we assume Gandalf is stronger then, based on that fact that Gandalf doesn't show off as much as Voldemort?

Not at all, I'm saying its essentially a question without an answer that will always be subject to the individual viewers bias. Without a clear point on which they can be compared as equals the question cannot be negotiated to a proper answer. Its the same with most cross-fiction questions. Neither side is right or wrong, assuming both can support their views.

Sure, it is entirely possible that Gandalf may have some super great magical powers that he simply chooses not to use.

But based on what he has done, he is inferior to Voldemort.

That is what I am saying.

I have to take issue with that. His accomplishments aren't as flashy, but they are more impressive. If we compare their enemies, Gandalf's enemy (Sauron Lieutenant of Morgoth) is a much more powerful foe than Harry potter, toddler extraordinaire. It took Voldemort seventeen years to get even a semblance of a victory over potter, but then he came back to life. Gandalf destroyed Sauron within two (timeline would help) years of his retaking Mordor. He was powerful enough to 'strive' with the second most powerful force for evil in Arda (Sauron).

This shows that he is on the same power level as Sauron.
Given: Harry Potter > Voldemort

Sauron > Harry Potter That's a given
Gandalf > Sauron Proved by the passage
Gandalf > Harry Potter Substitution
Gandalf > Voldemort substitution property.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
So we assume Gandalf is stronger then, based on that fact that Gandalf doesn't show off as much as Voldemort?

In Tolkien's world the strongest magic is unseen and unheard. Like when Gandalf dispelled Saruman's possession of Gandalf. The power came from his death and rebirth i.e. his transformation into Gandalf the white allowed him to dispell Saruman's spell.

Also when Mordor cursed Hurin and the curse played out into the lives of Hurin's children. In LOTR magic is far more powerful than in Harry Porter, it's just not flashy. I don't think Voldermorts showy spells would do much against Gandalf, at least not when he brings to bare his holy magic (as he showed with the Nazgul), anything evil is repelled by it.

EDIT: It should also be mentioned, that Gandalf isn't a man or a mortal like Voldemort, he's actually a Mair, an immortal angelic being who willfully took on the form of an old man.

Voldemort is just some douche that got owned by a nerdy teenager. Gandalf is an angel, he has divine powers at his disposal and is infinitely wiser and more experienced. This isnt even a contest.

Even though by feats Gandalf has not done shit to even rival Voldemort?

So he can break a staff.

Wow. AMAZING!!!!

Simple spells in HP can incinerate objects or living things.

So he can dispell a possession.

Harry did that too, only it was a possession on him, so Harry's feat is better.

No proof at all Gandalf could survive Avada Kedavra, I mean for Christ's sake, Saruman, who was still technically a Maiar, was killed by a friggin KNIFE wielded by Wormtongue! Their shells are not so durable.

Here guys I found a true and proper comparison. It isnt Gandalf vs Voldemort but its close enough. Click

Gandalf..duh!

Yes, in Harry Potter Kadavra kills instantly but against the power from Voldemort against Gandalf, Voldemort doesn't stand a chance. There is probably power stronger than Kadavra in LOTR, and most likely Gandalf posesses it.

Voldemort prepare to be mashed up into pulp....

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Even though by feats Gandalf has not done shit to even rival Voldemort?

So he can break a staff.

Wow. AMAZING!!!!

Simple spells in HP can incinerate objects or living things.

So he can dispell a possession.

Harry did that too, only it was a possession on him, so Harry's feat is better.

No proof at all Gandalf could survive Avada Kedavra, I mean for Christ's sake, Saruman, who was still technically a Maiar, was killed by a friggin KNIFE wielded by Wormtongue! Their shells are not so durable.

On the last paragraph:

Yeah Saruman was killed be a knife but Gandalf isnt Saruman, is he?
Saruman was a dummy to even trust Grima in the first place.

You missed his point.

The point is that for all of the Maiar's "power", their physical bodies are mortal. They can be hurt, and killed. There spirit will live on but their body will die, and they can't choose to come back whenever they want. Gandalf's resurrection was a special occurrence. Middle Earth needed him, and so he was given a second chance.

Originally posted by xx Happy Gal xx
Gandalf..duh!

Yes, in Harry Potter Kadavra kills instantly but against the power from Voldemort against Gandalf, Voldemort doesn't stand a chance. There is probably power stronger than Kadavra in LOTR, and most likely Gandalf posesses it.

Voldemort prepare to be mashed up into pulp.... So we should assume that there is "probably" a spell in LotR more powerful, and that Gandalf "most likely" possesses it?

How about no?

Gandalf is like Saruman in that both are Maiar, and both of their mortal shells are destructible, and as my ward stated, they cannot come back as they please, Gandalf's resurrection was a direct intervention from the Valar was it not?

I hope I'm getting my fair share of Scooby Snacks for this. Your arguments would be worthless if not for me.

Only if you give me naked pictures of your cousin.

Oh yes, I went there.

The risk involved in trying to attain naked pictures of my cousin would discourage even the mightiest of men. Think of the most psychopathic thing you could do to another human being, then take discomfort in the fact that Polaski could do worse.

That's hot.

No really, that's hot.

I said psychopathic, not erotic.

I know. Nub.

I say Gandalf wins.

Well yeah, but, you're a sock.

haermm

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
So we should assume that there is "probably" a spell in LotR more powerful, and that Gandalf "most likely" possesses it?

How about no?

Gandalf is like Saruman in that both are Maiar, and both of their mortal shells are destructible, and as my ward stated, they cannot come back as they please, Gandalf's resurrection was a direct intervention from the Valar was it not?

It was Eru; not even the Valar have the power to reincarnate someone. (I think.)

I am willing to take Gandalf's side: The shield he uses against the Balrog implies that he could also shield himself from the Avada Kedavra curse. (Mostly because there is no other evidence that Gandalf would win, except for the whole Angel of Eru thing, which meant nothing in a fight. Much as I hate to admit it, in pure combat ability I think Voldy has him beat.)



I think the biggest problem is that Voldemort is a punk, but Gandalf is frikkin BA!

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Well yeah, but, you're a sock.

haermm

What the hell is a sock?

And anyway, I would like to say Voldemort wouldn't even get the chance to point his wand at Gandi. Hell, Legolas took five bloody minutes getting his bow ready because Gandalf was casting a spell on him. The same Legolas who could have strung a bow faster then the eye could see. Even then, IF Voldemort can get his wand at Gandalf, Gandi could super heat his wand so it catches on fire. ftw.

Only Voldemort can rapidly apparate(teleport), can turn intangible, and is much faster than Gandalf.

And as for that motion, or Voldemort can with a gesture relinquish Gandalf of his staff.

And this is ignoring the fact that with a single spell Voldemort can kill Gandalf.

Or he could just use Crucio to torture Gandalf's very mortal body slowly.

Can he cast spells while intangible?

And Gandalf can do the same thing with his wand

Gandalf can do that also. He can can down a bolt of lightning onto Voldemort's head.

It takes the same pointing and saying the word as Avada. Which he won't be able to do.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Can he cast spells while intangible?

And Gandalf can do the same thing with his wand

Gandalf can do that also. He can can down a bolt of lightning onto Voldemort's head.

It takes the same pointing and saying the word as Avada. Which he won't be able to do. Not that I am aware of.

Only, you see, the thing is, Voldemort has resistance against the Expelliarmus spell in HP, which disarms the opponent, hell, disarming the opponent is a basic HP attack.

And Voldemort can kill Gandalf with a beam of light.

So Gandalf can react faster than Voldemort can speak?

Gandalf has no resistance against Avada Kedavra, you would have to prove that Gandalf is fast enough to kill Voldemort before he can use it, cause he can't block or dodge it.

K

Voldemort's wand is immune to having it catch on fire

It isn't a beam of light though. It's a beam of teh magic.

He cast the spell on Legolas who can string a bow faster then the eye can see so yeah sure why not.

I thought Avada could be blocked by another physical object

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
K

Voldemort's wand is immune to having it catch on fire

It isn't a beam of light though. It's a beam of teh magic.

He cast the spell on Legolas who can string a bow faster then the eye can see so yeah sure why not.

I thought Avada could be blocked by another physical object Which will happen before Voldemort disarms Gandalf with a gesture(can do without wand), and then with another festure and a short word will be writhing in pain on the floor, and then with one more gesture and two words while Gandalf is incapacitated, he kills him? No. Or he can just skip step one and two and just use Avada Kedavra to kill him, considering the speed at which he can do this. As far as setting on fire goes, basic HP magic again.

Which takes the form of a beam of light.

Hyperbole.

Yeah, if it is large enough, last I checked Gandalf didn't carry a shield.

Gandalf doesn't even have to do a gesture to heat one's weapon

No it isn't.

Here's the actual statment

"He stands not alone," said Legolas, bending his bow and fitting an arrow with hands that moved quicker then sight.

Don't see any hyperbole there.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Gandalf doesn't even have to do a gesture to heat one's weapon

No it isn't.

Here's the actual statment

"He stands not alone," said Legolas, bending his bow and fitting an arrow with hands that moved quicker then sight.

Don't see any hyperbole there. 1. And when was this?

Okay you mis-interpreted. It says his hands are quicker than sight, which is no strength, not that he strings a bow that fast.

When in Fangorn Forest, Aragorn drew Anduril against teh Cloaked Gandalf, and suddenly dropped it, saying it blazed with a sudden fire. Now before you go and say "IT WAS TEH HYPERBULLZ", Voldemort's staff is made of wood right? Well if you super duper heat wood, it catches fire am I right?

Considering the fact that Tolkein's works are literally brimming with hyperbole, it stands to reason that the "faster than the eye can see" comment is hyperbole. And even if it wasn't that's still only a speed feat not a strength feat. A strength feat would be hitting a target with an arrow from over a thousand yards...

And as for the flames, Tolkein never describes how Gandalf actually cast the spell. The fact that Gandalf never it again afterwards even though it would have been increasingly helpful leads me to believe that it's not as easy and fast as you'd think.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Considering the fact that Tolkein's works are literally brimming with hyperbole, it stands to reason that the "faster than the eye can see" comment is hyperbole. And even if it wasn't that's still only a speed feat not a strength feat. A strength feat would be hitting a target with an arrow from over a thousand yards...

And as for the flames, Tolkein never describes how Gandalf actually cast the spell. The fact that Gandalf never it again afterwards even though it would have been increasingly helpful leads me to believe that it's not as easy and fast as you'd think.

You're assuming that Gandalf can't cast the spell fast enough, even though it plainly said that he simply lifted up his staff, and both Gimli's and Aragorn's weapons were nullified? And when after this has he ever had a chance to use that spell effectively? The only one I could possibly think of is WK, and something tells me that spell wouldn't really work against a sword wreathed in flames.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
When in Fangorn Forest, Aragorn drew Anduril against teh Cloaked Gandalf, and suddenly dropped it, saying it blazed with a sudden fire. Now before you go and say "IT WAS TEH HYPERBULLZ", Voldemort's staff is made of wood right? Well if you super duper heat wood, it catches fire am I right? And nowhere is it said HOW he set it on fire, so you are assuming it is super duper fast before Voldemort can point his wand.

Lifting a staff takes more time than to point a wand.

Facts are.

Voldemort can spam teleport and effectively does so, making the chance of Gandalf hitting him not very likely.

Voldemort has several spells to incapacitate Gandalf and one that will kill him with a single casting.

With a gesture Gandalf can be disarmed.

Technically, Gandalf doesn't need his staff in order to cast magic. It doesn't act like a wand in the purest form, although it is recognised as a way perhaps to focus his magic and also as a talisman. Who would not be harmless if you robbed him of his staff (despite what the movies may say)

Even so, his ability to defeat Voldemort or not is still very much up in the air and it would as much depend on chance and fate especially as Voldemort can instant kill Gandalf, should he hit him with the Killing Curse.

I was under the impression that Staves help focus and channel their power, which is also what HP wands do.

Funny. I was pretty sure Saruman could do a whole shit load of spells without his staff

Gandalf easy

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Funny. I was pretty sure Saruman could do a whole shit load of spells without his staff

Which is ironic considering he's only done about.. three, two of which I believe he used a staff for.

Fact:

Sarumon and Gandalf don't have "shitloads" of spells. They've only been shown to use a few.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
You're assuming that Gandalf can't cast the spell fast enough, even though it plainly said that he simply lifted up his staff, and both Gimli's and Aragorn's weapons were nullified? And when after this has he ever had a chance to use that spell effectively? The only one I could possibly think of is WK, and something tells me that spell wouldn't really work against a sword wreathed in flames.

I dunno... when he's fighting leagues of orcs? Fighting the nine, trolls, etc? If the man can lift his arms and three men suddenly drop their weapons, it'd make sense to assume that if a room full of orcs were to jump him he could do the same there.

PIS

And we were never shown Gandalf's fight with the Nine.

PIS?

Maybe. Or maybe it's not as convenient and easy to use as you thought.

Just because we were never shown the fight does not mean that we can assume he uses the techniqe.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Funny. I was pretty sure Saruman could do a whole shit load of spells without his staff And what spells would those be?

Neither Gandalf nor Saruman have shown a shit-load of spells.

comparing a character like Gandalf to Voldemort is a bit silly TBH, Voldemort is more of a "ooOOooOoo i'm ridiculously evil and i shoot green stuff outta my wand and kill you" ... while Gandalf's character is explained in much more detail and is alot more complex...

i voted Gandalf tho, he's not a 2D as Voldemort.

P.S: this is like comparing Rowling to Tolkien ...

Originally posted by Cloudzor
comparing a character like Gandalf to Voldemort is a bit silly TBH, Voldemort is more of a "ooOOooOoo i'm ridiculously evil and i shoot green stuff outta my wand and kill you" ... while Gandalf's character is explained in much more detail and is alot more complex...

i voted Gandalf tho, he's not a 2D as Voldemort.

P.S: this is like comparing Rowling to Tolkien ...

so true


Gandalf would kill him anyway. Oooh he who must not be named, so scary

Gandalf would spank him. LOTR is on a whole different level than HP

Originally posted by ESB -1138
This is an argument me and my friend can never complete. Who would win in this battle! Gandalf the White or Voldemort. I have said Gandalf the White but he says Voldemort and then we go about showing examples and stuff and neither can come before an answer.

So who wins?




Put it this way could u see Voldermort stepping to the Balrog................thats what i thought,Eclipso Gandalf would kick hiss assail,and Voldermorts tiny assail wand would be used as Big G's toothpick

Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, however Gandalf was instructed by the Valar, NOT to contend with Sauron at the time of the War of the Rings. If I remember reading the book correctly, Gandalf was also forbidden from using his full power as well. Because like Sauron, he is a Maiar spirit which are second only to the Valar, who are Gods.

Gandalf in the book was WAY more powerful then the "Gandalf of the movie", in fact, Peter Jackson took the leisure of even toning down Gandalf in the movie. The fact remains this, Gandalf is insanely powerful, and remember that he was forbidden to unleash his full strength by the Valar which he followed completely when he was a wizard is every indication that Gandalf is alot more powerful then you guys are assuming here.

Remember that Gandalf also has the ability of foresight, and being able to see into the future, he would be well prepared for Voldemort. I take nothing away from Voldemort, however you are comparing a human "wizard" to an immortal angelic being who has been sent from a God, and was so powerful that they were instructed to restrain their power.

Easy choice for me here.

Gandalf, no question.

ok, that spell disintigrates Gandalf's flesh or whatever. His Maia spirit is released and i as he truly is, Voldemort wonders "What the **** is th-" oops, Voldemort is dead cuz GANDALF IS UBER POWERFUL AS A MAIA SPIRIT!!!! He just says die and Voldemort is dead so hahahahahahaha

Uber powerful as a Maiar spirit?

Oh, you mean like how Saruman and Sauron are?

Gandalf. Dumbledore fought Voldemort to a standstill and I think Gandalf is more powerful then Dumbledore so there you have it. As for Avadah Kedavra, well, Gandalf can always dodge it.

Voldemort is only good with avada kadavera after he talks their ear off and aims it mentally he is the worst shot in a fight ! If he was a better shot everyone in that world would be dead , since he isnt a good shot Gandalf pwns

Voldemort SHALL NOT PASS!!!

lol

Voldy would probably piss himself if he ever saw a Balrog and probaby send his minions to do his dirty work.

With Gandalf, he's underestimate his opponent (like he did with Potter) and that will be the end off him.

POOF!

Originally posted by Telpy
Voldy would probably piss himself if he ever saw a Balrog and probaby send his minions to do his dirty work.

With Gandalf, he's underestimate his opponent (like he did with Potter) and that will be the end off him.

POOF! Avada Kedavra.

Originally posted by Telpy
Voldy would probably piss himself if he ever saw a Balrog and probaby send his minions to do his dirty work.

With Gandalf, he's underestimate his opponent (like he did with Potter) and that will be the end off him.

POOF! Voldemort would wreck the balrog. Seriously he'd wreck it and the Harry Potter verse has tons of mages and In this world they all fear Voldemort.

Im pretty sure this comes down to who puts down the first spell the fastest. If Gandalf broke voldys wand or dis armed him then voldy isn't going to win. Yes he could do wandless magic but it would take great effort to do so. The effort you have to put behind wandless magic would be to much even for a simple spell.

Im going to say Gandalf. Voldemorts never messed with someone like this before.

If Gandalf can obliterate with ease everything he desires, why didn't he do it more often? Is it because he broke Saruman's staff that people think that?

1. who said he could?
&
2. Ooh and Voldy could just obliterate anything then why didn't he just do it? He had Horcroxs to keep him alive. Why did he just single handily wipe everyone off the face of the earth? Why did he need the death eaters at all?

If it's movie versions then Voldemort.

Definitely Voldemort. What did Gandalf do in the films? Shine bright lights to drive off a Nazghul and make a bridge fall to take down the Balrog. Alright, he fought it later as well, but the wizards in Tolkien's world just are not at the level of those in the fantasy works that followed, and understandably so.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
1. who said he could?You didn't say it? What did you mean by this:

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
If Gandalf broke voldys wand ?


Originally posted by BlackZero30x
&
2. Ooh and Voldy could just obliterate anything then why didn't he just do it? He had Horcroxs to keep him alive. Why did he just single handily wipe everyone off the face of the earth? Why did he need the death eaters at all? You are aware that Voldemort was more interested in ruling the world, not destroying it? He has however shown a propensity for killing people with one spell that can't be blocked. Dead Gandalf in two seconds flat.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You didn't say it? What did you mean by this:

?


You are aware that Voldemort was more interested in ruling the world, not destroying it? He has however shown a propensity for killing people with one spell that can't be blocked. Dead Gandalf in two seconds flat.

Yea because its so hard to break a wand

Seriously if you think someone has to be some super master of obliterating things to do it then your are so far off base you aren't even on the ball field.

I didn't say anything about destroying the world.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x


2. Ooh and Voldy could just obliterate anything then why didn't he just do it? He had Horcroxs to keep him alive. Why did he just single handily wipe everyone off the face of the earth? Why did he need the death eaters at all?

If it's so simple for him to just beat anyone with this instant death spell that "can't be blocked" (which has been shown to be blocked) Then Why did he not just go beat his opponents himself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBW5P8c6_cs

now instead of "your staff is broken" he says "your wand is broken.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLxt9wH1OgQ

because if this can break the elder wand then it wont be a problem for the above.

Gandalf still wins.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Yea because its so hard to break a wand

Seriously if you think someone has to be some super master of obliterating things to do it then your are so far off base you aren't even on the ball field.How exactly is Gandalf going to break Voldemort's wand? By using the same technique he employed on all those Orc/Uruk/Nazgul weapons? Remember all those swords, and shields, and bows that Gandalf obliterated in the films? No? Me neither. But magic wands in the hands of powerful Dark Lords, yeah those are a cakewalk.


Originally posted by BlackZero30x
I didn't say anything about destroying the world. Yeah. You did. When you said this:


Originally posted by BlackZero30x
2. Ooh and Voldy could just obliterate anything then why didn't he just do it? He had Horcroxs to keep him alive. Why did he just single handily wipe everyone off the face of the earth? Why did he need the death eaters at all?



Originally posted by BlackZero30x
If it's so simple for him to just beat anyone with this instant death spell that "can't be blocked" (which has been shown to be blocked) Then Why did he not just go beat his opponents himself? How is Gandalf going to block the Killing Spell? Does Gandalf have a mother who sacrificed herself for him? And did you not watch the films? When Voldemort's minions fail at their job, he does go himself. And he tends to kill people. A lot.


And did you just try to counter yourself up there?


Originally posted by BlackZero30x
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBW5P8c6_cs

now instead of "your staff is broken" he says "your wand is broken. Just like all those times he said "Your sword is broken." Or "Your bow is broken." Or "You siege tower that's made of ordinary wood is broken."

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLxt9wH1OgQ

because if this can break the elder wand then it wont be a problem for the above. Saruman, a depowered wizard who belongs to the same order that Gandalf is now chief of, is cast out with a symbolic breaking of his staff, and you think that's a power that Gandalf can deploy at will on anything, held by anybody, at anytime? Even though far less powerful wretches (Orcs, Denothor's etc.) require Gandalf to use a sword, and a guard's spear to defeat?

The Elder Wand (or any Potter Wand) isn't being touched by Gandalf, and he'll be dead on the ground from a killing spell in two seconds flat.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
How exactly is Gandalf going to break Voldemort's wand? By using the same technique he employed on all those Orc/Uruk/Nazgul weapons? Remember all those swords, and shields, and bows that Gandalf obliterated in the films? No? Me neither. But magic wands in the hands of powerful Dark Lords, yeah those are a cakewalk.


Yeah. You did. When you said this:






How is Gandalf going to block the Killing Spell? Does Gandalf have a mother who sacrificed herself for him? And did you not watch the films? When Voldemort's minions fail at their job, he does go himself. And he tends to kill people. A lot.


And did you just try to counter yourself up there?


Just like all those times he said "Your sword is broken." Or "Your bow is broken." Or "You siege tower that's made of ordinary wood is broken."

lmao your making me roll. A wand thats no stronger then a piece of wood is stronger then all those orcs swords and shields haha. Your not helping yourself here. All you are doing is taking Gandalfs feat of breaking another very powerful wizards staff just by saying so and saying it can't happen because it didn't happen more then once. Well it did happen sorry.

If you know as much about the films as you claim you do then you would know wizards wands are anything but invincible.

anyways here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9kP6XYW7gA&feature=related

as you can see Harry is countering this "Un block-able" spell. I wasn't speaking of lilys love charm

So now we have a wizard countering the spell you said couldn't be countered, the knowledge that wand breaking is very easy, and Gandalf has shown he can simply break another wizards staff just by saying so.

your next argument?

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
lmao your making me roll.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
A wand thats no stronger then a piece of wood is stronger then all those orcs swords and shields haha. Your not helping yourself here. All you are doing is taking Gandalfs feat of breaking another very powerful wizards staff just by saying so and saying it can't happen because it didn't happen more then once. Well it did happen sorry. Not more than once. Again, you do realize that Saruman and Gandalf are both Maiar Istari, right? And when Gandalf came back as the White, he replaced Saruman in the Wizard Order--"What Saruman was meant to be." The breaking of his staff was symbolic in kicking him out of the Order and stripping his power and authority. It's not some video-game technique that he can apply to anything made of wood---you know, like bows and arrows, or shield. Voldemort isn't one of those Istari, Gandalf has no authority over him. He can't "break his staff", or in this case a wand. No more than he could break an Orc's weapon, or a Hobbit's pipe.



Originally posted by BlackZero30x
If you know as much about the films as you claim you do then you would know wizards wands are anything but invincible.

anyways here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9kP6XYW7gA&feature=related

as you can see Harry is countering this "Un block-able" spell. I wasn't speaking of lilys love charm *sigh*


I'm beginning to think that you've never actually watched the Potter films, or read the books, and what you know comes from YouTube clips.

Harry is blocking Avada Kedavra, because the Elder Wand recognizes him as the rightful owner. The Elder Wand that the Voldemort is holding. Please actually learn the source material before you start arguing about it.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
So now we have a wizard countering the spell you said couldn't be countered, the knowledge that wand breaking is very easy, and Gandalf has shown he can simply break another wizards staff just by saying so.

your next argument? I could start arguing that you are a competent lad, capable of well thought out, rational, argument. But... I have no proof, so I won't go there.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien


Not more than once. Again, you do realize that Saruman and Gandalf are both Maiar Istari, right? And when Gandalf came back as the White, he replaced Saruman in the Wizard Order--"What Saruman was meant to be." The breaking of his staff was symbolic in kicking him out of the Order and stripping his power and authority. It's not some video-game technique that he can apply to anything made of wood---you know, like bows and arrows, or shield. Voldemort isn't one of those Istari, Gandalf has no authority over him. He can't "break his staff", or in this case a wand. No more than he could break an Orc's weapon, or a Hobbit's pipe.



*sigh*


I'm beginning to think that you've never actually watched the Potter films, or read the books, and what you know comes from YouTube clips.

Harry is blocking Avada Kedavra, because the Elder Wand recognizes him as the rightful owner. The Elder Wand that the Voldemort is holding. Please actually learn the source material before you start arguing about it.

I could start arguing that you are a competent lad, capable of well thought out, rational, argument. But... I have no proof, so I won't go there.

apparently I have seen more of it then you. Does the wand recognize harry as his owner? yes. Is that why hes able to block it? no. Your just making crap up now. The only thing that is happening is the wand doesn't work at 100% when someone uses it thats not its owner. We saw it starting to crack at one point. Thats when voldy goes to talk to snap about it. No where in the movie does it state or is it implied that just because it belongs to someone else it makes your spells "blockable". Try again. Also I would like to add what do the books have to do with anything? I mean it's not like they go hand and hand and this is a movie based fight. Show me someone stating or proof that harry is only blocking it because its his.....

Im pretty sure you are thinking of when Harry and Voldy had wands with feathers from the same phoenix. After they connected they couldn't hurt each other with their original wands......


EDIT: yes I realize that a lesser wizards staff was broken because a stronger wizard commanded it so. Just because hes a battle ready wizard and didn't use magic isn't a very good argument.

Let me put it to you like I did the other LOTR fanboi who thought Sauron was the ultimate power: Moiraine from Wheel of Time could crush Sauron, Gandolf, and any other magic user from Tolkien's world. They just are not very powerful wizards in comparison to what follows in most other fantasy. Even Elora Danan is more powerful by the end of the Willow series.

As to this specific instance, almost every top tier wizard in the Potter series could have killed Gandalf, let alone Voldemort himself. Sucks that you're living in delusion that way, but whatever's clever.

Nerds unite..

http://blog.onlinemetals.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/nerds.jpg

I missed this:


Originally posted by BlackZero30x
apparently I have seen more of it then you. Does the wand recognize harry as his owner? yes. Is that why hes able to block it? no. Your just making crap up now. The only thing that is happening is the wand doesn't work at 100% when someone uses it thats not its owner. We saw it starting to crack at one point. Thats when voldy goes to talk to snap about it. No where in the movie does it state or is it implied that just because it belongs to someone else it makes your spells "blockable". Try again. Also I would like to add what do the books have to do with anything? I mean it's not like they go hand and hand and this is a movie based fight. Show me someone stating or proof that harry is only blocking it because its his.....

Im pretty sure you are thinking of when Harry and Voldy had wands with feathers from the same phoenix. After they connected they couldn't hurt each other with their original wands......


EDIT: yes I realize that a lesser wizards staff was broken because a stronger wizard commanded it so. Just because hes a battle ready wizard and didn't use magic isn't a very good argument. I just posted this clip in the GDF, but what the hell. It fits here too. I'm Vegeta, and you are Nappa:



URXvnFnlUeE



You sir, have won the Internet. I bow to your skill at being awful.

Originally posted by Kelly_Bean
The Sacred Fire, before you make fun of someone for their spelling skills, make sure you can spell yourself. Spelt is a species if wheat..

To add, you're allowed to have an opinion and a discussion but tone it down a notch. This thread was created for people to vote on and elaborate on who they vote for, but you're making it seem like no one's opinion but your own is right just because someone disagreed with you..

Just thought this needs clearing up a little bit. Spelt is perfectly correct (more correct than spelled) English and therefore the irony of what you say is beautiful. For future reference, spelled is the dumbed down American English equivalent....

Voldemort clearly wins.

"Your wand is broken"

http://i.minus.com/iWD57I2kP7Zpg.gif

Originally posted by Robtard
"Your wand is broken"

http://i.minus.com/iWD57I2kP7Zpg.gif Post proof he can do so to Voldemort and not someone of his own order ?


Should we ignore the fact he replaced Saruman the White as Gandalf the White. You embarrass yourself. Go sit in the corner, dumb ape.

Dummy.

Gandalf hasnt displayed any type of offensive magic that i can think of that compares to what Voldemort is capable of. We know Voldemor is capable of casting the same type of spells that Gandalf can but theres nothing to suggest that Gandalf has the same ability. Although, he does have that one really cool spell that turns his staff into a really bright flash light.

Robbie is biased, loves staring at man hands, and just makes shit up. That explains why he is hiding as I post this.

Like you hid all these days? Wonder what brought you back

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Like you hid all these days? Wonder what brought you back Unlike you I have a life. You apparently hang out here for days waiting for me to show, loser.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Post proof he can do so to Voldemort and not someone of his own order ?


Should we ignore the fact he replaced Saruman the White as Gandalf the White. You embarrass yourself. Go sit in the corner, dumb ape.

Dummy.

"Your wand is broken"

http://i.minus.com/iWD57I2kP7Zpg.gif

Originally posted by quanchi112
Post proof he can do so to Voldemort and not someone of his own order ?


Should we ignore the fact he replaced Saruman the White as Gandalf the White. You embarrass yourself. Go sit in the corner, dumb ape.

Dummy. Originally posted by Robtard
"Your wand is broken"

http://i.minus.com/iWD57I2kP7Zpg.gif Quit ignoring the context of why that was possible. You're really ignorant when it comes to Lotr films. Gandalf the White replaced the corrupted Saruman the White.

Simpleton.

"irony"

"Your wand is broken" -Gandalf aka The Best Wizard

http://i.minus.com/iWD57I2kP7Zpg.gif