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Well, we have had this on going discussion in the official conspiracy thread...and it was never ending, so lets continue any disscusion of 9/11 here!

September 11th, 2001 has no conspiracy attached to it.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Well, we have had this on going discussion in the official conspiracy thread...and it was never ending, so lets continue any disscusion of 9/11 here!

You spelled September wrong.

Pfft "9/11". Where I come from it's 11/9 thank you very much. That's a conspiracy right there. Why have to different ways to mark dates? Australia it's Day/Month/Year (which makes sense, it's in ascending order) and the US it's Month/Day/Year (which has no order to it).

Why the f*ck does it matter? lol.

And no, I think that it was no conspiracy. However it was the excuse Bush needed to go into the Middle East, and his motives however are BS.

Originally posted by Blaxican Hydra
Why the f*ck does it matter? lol.

And no, I think that it was no conspiracy. However it was the excuse Bush needed to go into the Middle East, and his motives however are BS.

w00t

well theres only one thing good about this years 11th sep THE OOT lolz

Originally posted by LanceWindu
You spelled September wrong.
Blast

As I'm Mojo-Jojo...CURSES

Originally posted by Blaxican Hydra
Why the f*ck does it matter? lol.

And no, I think that it was no conspiracy. However it was the excuse Bush needed to go into the Middle East, and his motives however are BS.

I think you need to look at the facts before you speak

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386&q=loose+change

great documentary exposing the lies of the official story

NORAD Tapes Only Confirm Implausibility Of 9/11 Official Story

NORAD ... 'Protects North America from air attacks' (except on September 11th)

'Newly released portions of NORAD tapes from 9/11 featured in a Vanity Fair article do little to answer skeptic's questions about the impotence of U.S. air defenses on 9/11 and if anything only increase focus on the incompatibility of the official version of events with what is actually known to have taken place on that day.

It is clear that the exercises revolving around hijacked airliners scheduled for that morning created so much noise in the system that controllers could not pinpoint the positions of any of the real airliners to orchestrate any kind of intercept.'
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/020806tapesintensify.htm


Fake 9-11 Government Reports

'As the fifth anniversary of the heinous 9-11 crimes is drawing closer, yet another piece of the official myth is crumbling: The glossy 9-11 crime reports that the FEMA and NIST agencies laboriously compiled have turned out to be crude fakeries and are 100% misleading.'

http://www.cloakanddagger.de/_Grossmann/911%20REPORT/Fake_9-11_Government_Reports.htm

9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes - the chaos and confusion caused by 'exercises' that mirrored the 'real world'

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01

they always use a drill to keep eveyone confused. they did it with the london bombings too. lmao. how stupid can the elite get. we aint all dumb.

When governments deliver the lies and excuses for their grotesque actions most people are ready to accept them because they want to believe the lies are true. The alternative is to face the fact that the government is not a benign servant of the people - it's the other way round. It is to face the reality that the forces which control the United States are capable of orchestrating the horrors of 9/11 and blaming someone else; and that they can brazenly attend funeral services for the victims while knowing they helped to kill them. How many people are strong enough to face that and what it means for their lives? This is one major reason why the official lies prevail as accepted truth. The alternative is too unthinkable, too unbearable, to contemplate; so most people don't. Pass me a bucket, heavy on the sand

- infinite love is the only truth

5 posts in a row congrats

the information is there for you. take it or leave it

Originally posted by Deano
I think you need to look at the facts before you speak

I have looked at the facts, and I have determined that the 9/11 thing was not set up by the government. I am entitled to my own opinion.

Originally posted by Deano
the information is there for you. take it or leave it

I hate reading

That's my birthday

Actually, Detectives D. Scully and F. Mulder discovered on 9/23 that it was a conspiracy. It was an elaborate ruse for our current president, Jimmy Carter, to replace fossil fuel in East India, and substitute it with carbon monoxide. I've discovered for myself that in Pretoria, there are traces of a highly dangerous substance, and that Canada had something to do with it - trading with Japan.

*SLams fist on the table*

I knew it was the Jap's fault!

Wait, what're we talking about again? Oh yeah, global warming.

Anyhoo I figure I'll move to Autralia when the bombs fall, as Canada will get WTFpwnd by the Russians when they fire their nukes at America and miss. Australia will get the least amount of fallout, bombage.

Also X-Files suck.

I liked a few of their really old episodes though.

staying on topic would be considerate.

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_facts.html

9/11 facts

Why did they choose 9/11?

Mainly because the American Emergency line is 911

Yeah, those sick bastards actually have a sense of humor.

Originally posted by Blaxican Hydra
I have looked at the facts, and I have determined that the 9/11 thing was not set up by the government. I am entitled to my own opinion.

all you got to do is visit www.infowars.com and the evidence there is overwhelming that it was set up by our own government.People who try desperately to disprove it but never can like KD are living in denial on the issue because anybody with logic and common sense would look at that site and see the information there and see that it was indeed a government job.

So why exactly would our government attack themselves?

I just saw something in a magazine somewhere that some think that there was no plane that hit the pentagon. The lawn was not scorn from anything, and the pictures of it show a large explosion, and no plane. Unless the plane is an invisible one (damn arabs), then it might have been some sort of coverup for some sort of reason.

Yeah, there where no wings on the Pentagon Lawn...Originally posted by Flamboyant4Life
So why exactly would our government attack themselves?
To scare the public into allowing the government away with introducing new anti-terror laws...

Originally posted by Nevermind
Pfft "9/11". Where I come from it's 11/9 thank you very much. That's a conspiracy right there. Why have to different ways to mark dates? Australia it's Day/Month/Year (which makes sense, it's in ascending order) and the US it's Month/Day/Year (which has no order to it). It's Day/Month/Year in the UK aswell.

Also, we will never know what happened at 9/11 because of all the propaganda.

Well, I think we do know, some terrorists hijacked some planes then flew them into some buildings...just some people love a conspiracy...

People that think there's a Conspiracy around this really make me sick, do not blame our own Government for this, it was a bunch of Middle Eastern Terrorists, end of story

people like yourself who want to live in a fantasy world and want to blame middle eastern terrorists that did this and dont want to look at the overwhelming evidence that infowars shows that proves it was an inside job make me sick.it was an inside job by the us government,end of story.deal with it.

as someone else said over on Deanos thread,9-11 was an inside job carried out by criminals within the government.follow the money.

look up operation northwoods. The US government openly say they are willing to attack there own people

i would post a link but i'm still thin on postnumbers so the good ol' cut and paste job must do:


For almost three years since 9/11 independent researchers have stockpiled individual smoking guns which prove that the official version of events was not only a lie but operationally impossible.

However, no single smoking gun has yet been forwarded to explain why air defenses categorically reversed Standard Operating Procedure and failed to respond to hijacked jetliners.

Until now. More and more individuals are looking at the facts and highlighting exercise drills that took place on the morning of 9/11.

It is clear that at least five if not six training exercises were in operation in the days leading up to and on the morning of 9/11. This meant that NORAD radar screens showed as many as 22 hijacked airliners at the same time. NORAD had been briefed that this was part of the exercise drill and therefore normal reactive procedure was forestalled and delayed.

The large numbers of 'blips' on NORAD screens that displayed both real and 'drill' hijacked planes explain why confused press reports emerged hours after the attack stating that up to eight planes had been hijacked. Click here for that article.

The drill scenario also explains a comment made by air traffic control personnel which was featured in a July 2004 BBC television report. Click here for that video clip and article. The controller is told that a hijacked airliner is heading for New York and responds by saying, "is this real world or an exercise?"

Alex Jones was one of the first to highlight the wargames in his documentary film 'Masters of Terror', which was released in August 2002. Click here to watch a video clip. Alex explains why the Associated Press later had to admit the fact that the CIA were running drills of crashing planes into buildings on the morning of 9/11.


What were the drills called and what was their nature?

1) OPERATION NORTHERN VIGILANCE: This was planned months in advance of 9/11 and ensured that on the morning of 9/11, jet fighters were removed from patrolling the US east coast and sent to Alaska and Canada, therefore reducing the amount of fighter planes available to protect the east coast.

2) BIOWARFARE EXERCISE TRIPOD II: Alex Jones first reported on this back in May when Rudolph Giuliani let the details of it slip in his testimony to the 9/11 Commission. FEMA arrived in New York on September 10th to set up a command post located at Pier 29 under the auspices of a 'biowarfare exercise scheduled for September 12. This explains why Tom Kenney of FEMA's National Urban Search and Rescue Team, told Dan Rather of CBS News that FEMA had arrived in New York on the night of September 10th. This was originally dismissed as a slip of the tongue. Giuliani was to use this post as a command post on 9/11 after he evacuated WTC Building 7. As we reported back in January, Giuliani knew when to leave WTC 7 because he got advanced warning that the Trade Towers were about to collapse. "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse," Rudolph Giuliani told Peter Jennings of ABC News. How did Giuliani know the towers were about to collapse when no steel building in history had previously collapsed from fire damage?

3) OPERATION VIGILANT GUARDIAN: This exercise simulated hijacked planes in the north eastern sector and started to coincide with 9/11. Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins, NORAD unit's airborne control and warning officer, was overseeing the exercise. At 8:40am she took a call from Boston Center which said it had a hijacked airliner. Her first words, as quoted by Newhouse News Service were, "It must be part of the exercise." This is another example of how the numerous drills on the morning of 9/11 deliberately distracted NORAD so that the real hijacked planes couldn't be intercepted in time.

4) OPERATION NORTHERN GUARDIAN: The details of this exercise are still scant but it is considered to be part of Vigilant Guardian, relating to simulating hijacked planes in the north eastern sector.

5) OPERATION VIGILANT WARRIOR: This was referenced in Richard Clarke's book 'Against All Enemies'. It is thought to have been the 'attack' component of the Vigilant Guardian exercise.

Another example of how air defenses were purposefully kept preoccupied so they couldn't protect New York was reported by this website in December of 2003. The Air National Guard's 177th Fighter Wing, based at Atlantic City International Airport in Pomona, were just eight minutes away from New York and could have intercepted both Flight 11 and Flight 175.

Under NORAD procedures that date to the Cold War, two F-16 fighters from the 177th were parked around the clock on the Atlantic City runway. Pilots waited in a nearby building, ready to scramble.

But on the morning of 9/11, the F-16's were performing bombing runs over an empty stretch of the Pine Barrens near Atlantic City after being decommissioned from their usual role of protecting the skies of the east coast.

It was only after both trade towers were hit that the two F-16s landed and were refitted with air-to-air missiles, then sent aloft.

Now that we have established how NORAD were confused, delayed and distracted by the numerous wargames, the next question to ask is who if anyone was aware of which planes were 'real world' and which planes were 'exercise'? The answer to this question will provide us with the name of the individual who ran the operatonal execution of the 9/11 attack.

Dick Cheney.

Cheney was initially taken by the secret service to an underground bunker in the White House called the Presidential Emergency Operations Center.

From there, according to CNN, Cheney directed the US government's response to the unfolding attack.

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

As the plane in question hit the Pentagon, what else can we conclude but that the 'order' was not to shoot down the aircraft and to let it find its target.

Mineta stated that he did not know what the 'order' was because he wasn't there when it was made.

After the Pentagon was hit, Cheney was transfered to another bunker in what the Philadelphia Daily News describes as 'the underground Pentagon'.

Site R, a highly secure complex of buildings inside Raven Rock Mountain near Blue Ridge Summit, Pa., close to the Maryland-Pennsylvania state line and about seven miles north of Camp David, is a 53-year-old facility conceived at the start of the Cold War as an alternate command center in the event of nuclear war or an attack on Washington.

The bunker is built into a mountain hillside and is virtually camouflaged to the naked eye. The location betrays itself by the vast gaggle of satellites, microwave towers and antennae that festoon the perimeter. Inside the facility there are computer filled caverns and communication and tracking technology that would put a James Bond movie to shame.

The entire facility is guarded by heavily armed military police.

Within hours of 9/11 unfolding, five choppers had landed on the facility's helipad and top officials such as Paul Wolfowitz were ushered in to join Cheney in the command bunker.

Site R - also known as Raven Rock or the Alternate Joint Communications Center is from where vice-President Dick Cheney ran the aftermath of the 9/11 attack. Cheney's command superceded the orders of the Pentagon, the FAA or the White House. He is the number one suspect in the murder of nearly 3,000 innocent people.

In May of 2001, by presidential order, Cheney was handed direct control of all wargame and drill operations. This meant he was solely in charge of the overlapping NORAD drills and wargames on the morning of 9/11, that prevented Standard Operating Procedure from being implemented, and any of the hijacked planes being intercepted.

The smoking guns of 9/11 are no longer disparate jigsaw pieces that serve to just raise more questions than they answer. We now have a coherent and plausible explanation of how the events unfolded, why there was no air defense response, and a prime suspect as to who executed these actions. The facts fit this version of events.

The 9/11 truth movement has just taken a giant leap towards dismantling the lies of September 11and finally offering justice for those who lost their lives on that terrible day.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
people like yourself who want to live in a fantasy world and want to blame middle eastern terrorists that did this and dont want to look at the overwhelming evidence that infowars shows that proves it was an inside job make me sick.it was an inside job by the us government,end of story.deal with it.


That "evidence" as you call it, is mostly a bunch of crap, we wern't prepared for these attacks, and are still not in many areas, are you even a US citizen?

Funny how some idiot douchebags half a world away know more about what happened in New York on September 11th than the people who live in New York.

yes I am and thats only because you want to ignore the evidence.We were not prepared because that nazi Bush and that other Nazi attorney general John Ashcroft threatened FBI agents with arrest if they tried to stop the attacks when they came to them with evidence they had that there was going to be terrorists attacks against the world trade center.It was clearly an inside job by the government because the CIA trained and funded the terrorists attacks.Bush never had any intention of wanting to try to prevent the attacks from happening.after all Daddy Bush was the former director of the CIA,he didnt want to go against daddys wishes who loves the kind of activities the CIA does. Are you really that dense about how evil the Bush crime family is? the only evidence that is crap is the governments evidence. stop living in denial and face the music.

Originally posted by LMM
Funny how some idiot douchebags half a world away know more about what happened in New York on September 11th than the people who live in New York.

you mean like the firefighters who went into the buidling who said they have put out fires before were explosives were set off to buildings who know what explosives sound like and swore they heard explosives going off in the builiding? I will take the word over firefighters experienced in those kinds of things over internet geeks who choose to ignore evidence.

By saying the Bush family are Nazis and a Crime Family, you have lost any little credibility you once had, I'm sure your just some Lib trying to make the President look bad, go figure

As to Firefighters saying that they heard explosives, the building was falling down, a Plane just hit it, and it was on fire, there would be explosions going off, the "overwhelming evidence" is no doubt from Michael Moores "documentry" right?

No its from Alex Jones video Martial Law which you can purchase from his website infowars.com. where the firemen are saying that. Jones is the one I mentioned who has intereviewed those FBI agents who went to Bush warning him there were going to be terrorists attacks against the trade center and Bush threatened them with arrest if he tried to stop them.Jones does amazing good work and research. Michael Moores documentary is very well done,your living in denial on that though because the truth frightens you which is really sad.again FIRE does not melt steal,how hard is that for you to comprehend? thats the governments fairy tale version on why it collapsed. the fire would not cause the building to collapse and it SHOULD have toppled over sideways.this has all been said by independent investigaters who are structural experts.thats why they set off the explosives so it would NOT topple over sideways.the explosives would not have reached the bottom floors the firemen heard them from either,duh.No I have not lost my credibility,your just living in denial and afraid of the truth like all people are who deny this issue about the world trade center.you have lost YOUR credibility though with your false assumptions you make about me being a lib trying to make the president look bad though because people who know me around here no until Bush jr came along,I considered Clinton the most evil corrupted president the united states ever had.If you ever bothered to go to the library and do any research on the Bush family,you would find books out there that document that about the Bushs.Bush sr's dad,Prescott Bush helped put Hitler into power and had intelligence ties to the OSS which precedented the CIA.Bush Sr was the former director of the CIA before he became president,he was also the former ambassador to the U.N before he became president. The Bush family is very evil.They are a big crime family. As far as Clinton,just to show you I hate him equally as much.while governor of arkansas,he allowed the CIA to smuggle drugs into the Mena arkansas airport in exchange for weapons to be flown out of nicaragua.Thats why we had the Iran contra scandal that in case you did not know,had a colonel named Oliver North on the tv every day for like a year talking about his involvement when the plane crashed into nicaragua and they could not cover up the scandal anymore when the media arrived and filmed it all.the Iran contra scandal presided 3 presidents Reagan,Bush and Clinton,they ALL had knowledge of it.all you go to to do is do a google search on the men arkansas scandal.Clinton has a body count in the hundreds of people that have died under mysterious circumstances who knew about his criminal activites while governor of arkansas. Bush is not much worse than Clinton is.Not trying to make Bush or clinton look back,just stating facts.But since the truth about Bush frightens you too much,then your not worth the effort explaining it to since you dont want to learn.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
you mean like the firefighters who went into the buidling who said they have put out fires before were explosives were set off to buildings who know what explosives sound like and swore they heard explosives going off in the builiding? I will take the word over firefighters experienced in those kinds of things over internet geeks who choose to ignore evidence.

Name the firefighters.

Again, it's amusing that these articles list names of firefighters that don't even exist. And those that do have their quotes completely twisted. Not one firefighter said he thought he heard explosions, the quote was, "It sounded like explosions were going off all around us."

Paragraphs are your friend. So is grammer

I have to purchase some video on this? You'd think that this would be all out if it were true, it would be free. Michael Moore's video is a bunch of Lib propaganda, just like 90% of the crap people put out today. I love your emphasizing on me living in a "fantasy world" is wonderful. So your saying explosives were what brought the Tower down? I guess you didn't see the videos/pictures of Airplanes crashing into the buildings? It is impossible for a building to fall from the TOP THEN DOWN if there were explosives in the bottom, the building collapsed upon itself as there was a giant hole in it, and nothing left to support it, things would be explodingwith a Fire going through many parts of the building. If i'm not worth the effort to explain to, why did you bother to type out such a long list of crap?

Originally posted by LMM
Name the firefighters.

Again, it's amusing that these articles list names of firefighters that don't even exist. And those that do have their quotes completely twisted. Not one firefighter said he thought he heard explosions, the quote was, "It sounded like explosions were going off all around us."

how the hell am I suppose to NAME them,I dont know them personally.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Paragraphs are your friend. So is grammer

I have to purchase some video on this? You'd think that this would be all out if it were true, it would be free. Michael Moore's video is a bunch of Lib propaganda, just like 90% of the crap people put out today. I love your emphasizing on me living in a "fantasy world" is wonderful. So your saying explosives were what brought the Tower down? I guess you didn't see the videos/pictures of Airplanes crashing into the buildings? It is impossible for a building to fall from the TOP THEN DOWN if there were explosives in the bottom, the building collapsed upon itself as there was a giant hole in it, and nothing left to support it, things would be explodingwith a Fire going through many parts of the building. If i'm not worth the effort to explain to, why did you bother to type out such a long list of crap?

are you THAT ignorant in your beliefs? if you want to HEAR with your own ears then yeah you should purchase it.actually I think there is a place in my town where they give those tapes away fore free that i could probably find out about and get back to you but my experience with people like you is that they dont want to hear it and just ignore the evidence so it would be a watse of time I am sure. yes thats what brought it down because AGAIN the building SHOULD have toppled sideways but to prevent that from happening,the explosives were set off.listen for a change will you? not posting crap,just posting the truth hoping that you will stop living in this fantasy world and swallowing the governments bullcrap they shove down your throat.AGAIN fire doesnt melt steal,the only hole was the hole in the top of the building.the fire never burtn the metal like they say it did,wake up and smell the folgers and stop listening to the governments propaganda.and stop letting the government brainwash you that Michael moores video is propaganda.the only thing that is propoganda is the government and george bush. jesus christ you dont listen.

Well technically what you just said was Propaganda, and I look at the Evidence, it doesn't convince me at all, and again, if this was true, it would be in the media so quickly and last there, and REAL experts would come on there and debate it

There are roughly 200 "SMOKING GUNS" that prove 9/11 is an inside job, show me irrefutable points that counter these and I'll be convinced some guy in a cave planned all this.

Because all this nitpicking is ridicules, I can't even begin to name the benefits Bush and Dick gained from 9/11.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
how the hell am I suppose to NAME them,I dont know them personally.

You're stating "facts" based on quotes attributed to FDNY firefighters. Oh, but I'm sure you'll accept as "fact" any article that quotes "firefighters" as saying definitively that they heard bombs going off.

Names and station houses, please. This should be easy to provide if you indeed have facts.

Again, it's hilarious that the mostly British conspiracy theorists, who were nowhere near New York on September 11, know factually what happened that day, and their word is to be taken over hundreds of thousands of eyewitnesses present at the site.

Originally posted by LMM
You're stating "facts" based on quotes attributed to FDNY firefighters. Oh, but I'm sure you'll accept as "fact" any article that quotes "firefighters" as saying definitively that they heard bombs going off.

Names and station houses, please. This should be easy to provide if you indeed have facts.

Again, it's hilarious that the mostly British conspiracy theorists, who were nowhere near New York on September 11, know factually what happened that day, and their word is to be taken over hundreds of thousands of eyewitnesses present at the site. I agree

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Well technically what you just said was Propaganda, and I look at the Evidence, it doesn't convince me at all, and again, if this was true, it would be in the media so quickly and last there, and REAL experts would come on there and debate it

REAL experts Have COME on and debated it. your living in denial then and dont want to face the music if you have been to alex jones website infowars.com and looked at his threads.dude you are forgetiing the government covers up the truth constantly,they NEVER televise what people actually say. The 9-11 case is like the warren commission investigation into the kennedy assassination,they distorted facts,they didnt want to hear witnesses who had a conflicting story that did not fit their official version.The media which is a tool for the government automatically propogated it acorss the whole nation that oswald did it and there was not a shread of evidence that supported their false claims.they destroyed evidence,same here with 9-11,they did not report anything that contradicted the official version and they ALSO destroyed evidence.

The government knew it was going to happen, and did nothing. They used it like the adminstriation in '40 used Pearl Harbor to enter WWII, to rally Public Opinion.

okay for the posters like LMM,Kharma dog , flamboyant4life and Darth Krieger who have their heads up their butts here is some information you need to come to grips with and stop living in fear by dismissing the truth.Steven jones a physicist at BYU did a scientific research that he conducted on materials that were recovered from the wolrd trade center which prove that inceniaries were used in the demolition.another professor named Judy -dont know her last name at another university did as well and came to the same conclusion and she was fired for spreading the truth about that-she knew she would but she feels the truth is more important than keeping her job so she spoke out.wow thats some free country we live in,cant present an opposing view to people about our government here in the states without getting fired.great country and great freedoms we have here.sickening actually.

Also as I pointed out on the conspiracy thread before it got closed,the NEW owner of world trade center 7 took out an insurance policy against terrorisem shortly before the attacks and received payments in the tune of 5 million dollars from the collapse of the building.amazing how he profited from it all.He also told the head fire chief to pull the building even though the buiding had not been hit.funny that that building wasnt hit yet it caught on fire.Silverstein should have been prosecuted to the full on this but wasnt.Also if you look at the photo,the building came down the exact same way the other two towers did.the two towers should NEVER have gone down like they did from the plane.they SHOULD have toppled over and hit other buildings according to independent investigaters.we ALSO know the government is lying about the buildings coming down the way they did because of the jet crash because according to the engineers who constructed the towers,it was built to withstand the crash from a plane in case that happened.They were all scratching thier heads because they said that was an impossiblity for it to come down like it did.so the people that have come on here in the past and said that it collapsed like it did unlike other buildings in the past that suffered far more serious damage to them when that point has been brought up,because a plane hit it are full of B.S.

Also the military in new york is constantly on protocal surveying that area of the city and ready constantly all the time for something like this because new york along with washington and the pentagon is the most heavily guarded by the military for these kind of circumstances.They normally are so prepared for this that a plane that strays too far off course that the military would be there within minutes to prevent this from happening.what should have happened that day and what NORMALLY would have happened in a crisis like that is the military jets would have been there within minutes to force the airliner down to prevent it from happening and if they did not listen they would then shoot it down.they are told to shoot down the plane if all else fails to force them down because its much better to lose th elives of the people on board the plane than it is for a tragedy like this to occur.The REASON this never happened though was because all the high ranking officials of the military in new york they were prepared to take off and stop it but they were ordered by Dick Cheney to stand down,to ignore it.thats what they have said.it makes sense why because I was always scracting my head myself wondeing why the miliatary would not be prepared for a landmark like the world trade center to be prepared and constantly on guard against that.

also if the government is not involved,WHY did a company called demolition team come in and remove all the evidence so quickly and have it flown off to china and told china to bury it? any police officer in new york will tell you, you NEVER remove the evidence in a crime scene like that.thankfully some independent researchers like Jones got pieces of it to discover it was indeed explosives that went off.

something else to keep in mind for the people I mentioned that have been so ignorant about all this is that in something like this if the government thinks that terrorists are attacking us,the secret servicemen know that their number one priority is to find the preident immediately and escort him to protection yet on that day when this happened,you can see in one of the videos,george bushs top aide comes to him while he is visiting a grade school in florida reading a book to some kids,the aide whispers in his ear about the terrorist attacks and Bush just non chalantly nods his head and tells him and the rest of the secret servicemen their protection for him is not needed and to leave which they do.The Bush proceeds to continue to read the book to the kids for the next 20 minutes or so not acting one bit shocked at all as though it was just another day at the office.well he obviously knew it was going to happen do he obviously didnt care,that would explain the non chalent nod he gave him.

it was an inside job by own govenment plain and simple.Bush cheny and others need to be tried for their treason.end of story.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
okay for the posters like LMM,Kharma dog , flamboyant4life and Darth Krieger who have their heads up their butts here is some information you need to come to grips with and stop living in fear by dismissing the truth.Steven jones a physicist at BYU did a scientific research that he conducted on materials that were recovered from the wolrd trade center which prove that inceniaries were used in the demolition.another professor named Judy -dont know her last name at another university did as well and came to the same conclusion and she was fired for spreading the truth about that-she knew she would but she feels the truth is more important than keeping her job so she spoke out.wow thats some free country we live in,cant present an opposing view to people about our government here in the states without getting fired.great country and great freedoms we have here.sickening actually.

Also as I pointed out on the conspiracy thread before it got closed,the NEW owner of world trade center 7 took out an insurance policy against terrorisem shortly before the attacks and received payments in the tune of 5 million dollars from the collapse of the building.amazing how he profited from it all.He also told the head fire chief to pull the building even though the buiding had not been hit.funny that that building wasnt hit yet it caught on fire.Silverstein should have been prosecuted to the full on this but wasnt.Also if you look at the photo,the building came down the exact same way the other two towers did.the two towers should NEVER have gone down like they did from the plane.they SHOULD have toppled over and hit other buildings according to independent investigaters.we ALSO know the government is lying about the buildings coming down the way they did because of the jet crash because according to the engineers who constructed the towers,it was built to withstand the crash from a plane in case that happened.They were all scratching thier heads because they said that was an impossiblity for it to come down like it did.so the people that have come on here in the past and said that it collapsed like it did unlike other buildings in the past that suffered far more serious damage to them when that point has been brought up,because a plane hit it are full of B.S.

Also the military in new york is constantly on protocal surveying that area of the city and ready constantly all the time for something like this because new york along with washington and the pentagon is the most heavily guarded by the military for these kind of circumstances.They normally are so prepared for this that a plane that strays too far off course that the military would be there within minutes to prevent this from happening.what should have happened that day and what NORMALLY would have happened in a crisis like that is the military jets would have been there within minutes to force the airliner down to prevent it from happening and if they did not listen they would then shoot it down.they are told to shoot down the plane if all else fails to force them down because its much better to lose th elives of the people on board the plane than it is for a tragedy like this to occur.The REASON this never happened though was because all the high ranking officials of the military in new york they were prepared to take off and stop it but they were ordered by Dick Cheney to stand down,to ignore it.thats what they have said.it makes sense why because I was always scracting my head myself wondeing why the miliatary would not be prepared for a landmark like the world trade center to be prepared and constantly on guard against that.

also if the government is not involved,WHY did a company called demolition team come in and remove all the evidence so quickly and have it flown off to china and told china to bury it? any police officer in new york will tell you, you NEVER remove the evidence in a crime scene like that.thankfully some independent researchers like Jones got pieces of it to discover it was indeed explosives that went off.

something else to keep in mind for the people I mentioned that have been so ignorant about all this is that in something like this if the government thinks that terrorists are attacking us,the secret servicemen know that their number one priority is to find the preident immediately and escort him to protection yet on that day when this happened,you can see in one of the videos,george bushs top aide comes to him while he is visiting a grade school in florida reading a book to some kids,the aide whispers in his ear about the terrorist attacks and Bush just non chalantly nods his head and tells him and the rest of the secret servicemen their protection for him is not needed and to leave which they do.The Bush proceeds to continue to read the book to the kids for the next 20 minutes or so not acting one bit shocked at all as though it was just another day at the office.well he obviously knew it was going to happen do he obviously didnt care,that would explain the non chalent nod he gave him.

it was an inside job by own govenment plain and simple.Bush cheny and others need to be tried for their treason.end of story.

Were you in New York to witness the destruction of the Twin Towers personally?

Were you in the building after the plane hit?

Were you involved in the clean up?

Originally posted by Mr Parker
okay for the posters like LMM,Kharma dog , flamboyant4life and Darth Krieger who have their heads up their butts here is some information you need to come to grips with and stop living in fear by dismissing the truth.Steven jones a physicist at BYU did a scientific research that he conducted on materials that were recovered from the wolrd trade center which prove that inceniaries were used in the demolition.another professor named Judy -dont know her last name at another university did as well and came to the same conclusion and she was fired for spreading the truth about that-she knew she would but she feels the truth is more important than keeping her job so she spoke out.wow thats some free country we live in,cant present an opposing view to people about our government here in the states without getting fired.great country and great freedoms we have here.sickening actually.

It's funny how none of the sources ever have last names, or "wish to remain nameless"



Actually, Silverstein owned all seven buildings in the complex. He was required to take out an insurance policy by the banks from which he took the loan.



Who are these "independent investigators?" The engineers who designed the towers have gone on public record stating that the towers were designed to pancake if they ever collapsed, precisely to avoid the toppling effect.



That is a complete fabrication. The towers were built to withstand the impact of a 737. The idea was that a pilot would be trying to avoid the buildings or cause as little destruction as possible. The engineers have also gone on record stating that they never imagined a plane flying at full speed crashing into the buildings.



Yet another complete fabrication. You obviously know nothing about New York City. New York, before 9/11, was nowhere near one of the most guarded cities by the US military.



Another fabrication. The FBI worked side by side with the NYPD during the recovery effort and the following investigation. Jones is a liar.

There is a site (More than one) that debunk the sites that attempt to debunk the official story given.

Originally posted by LMM
It's funny how none of the sources ever have last names, or "wish to remain nameless"



Actually, Silverstein owned all seven buildings in the complex. He was required to take out an insurance policy by the banks from which he took the loan.



Who are these "independent investigators?" The engineers who designed the towers have gone on public record stating that the towers were designed to pancake if they ever collapsed, precisely to avoid the toppling effect.



That is a complete fabrication. The towers were built to withstand the impact of a 737. The idea was that a pilot would be trying to avoid the buildings or cause as little destruction as possible. The engineers have also gone on record stating that they never imagined a plane flying at full speed crashing into the buildings.



Yet another complete fabrication. You obviously know nothing about New York City. New York, before 9/11, was nowhere near one of the most guarded cities by the US military.



Another fabrication. The FBI worked side by side with the NYPD during the recovery effort and the following investigation. Jones is a liar.

they wish to be named nameless like the firefighters because they have been given death threats by people to shut up.

stop believing the lies of government officials.the people that designed it have gone on record saying it was built to withstand a plane crash.

knowing the disinformation you believe I seriously doubt he owned them all but so what? you asked for names I gave you names,that steven jones guy,the byu physicist who had access to it.I also listed that other professor who got fired for speaking the truth.that I will give you the name of later since her name escapes me now.

No the engineers have gone on record to say that they were built to withstand that and scrathing their heads over it.stop telling lies because your afraid of the truth.

no its the truth not a fabrication,you just want to believe the government lies.

The FBI is another corrupted organization along with the CIA,They have jusisdiction over something of this magnitude over policemen..You also dodged the issue that they covered up the evidence that it was sent off to china and ordered to be buried.AGAIN any policemen will tell you that in a crime scene like this,you want to keep the evidence to study it and look at it,not destroy it.damn your clueless about government.stop living in denial dude.

the only liars here are the 9-11 commission report.

Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
There is a site (More than one) that debunk the sites that attempt to debunk the official story given.

exactly.I dont get the information just from Jones.I get it from others as well.Its just Jones has the best material and is not a liar as people want to live in their fantasy world and believe.

okay you want names other than jones?heres names,heres the name of that lady I said i would have that got fired from her job for speaking the truth.Judy wood was an assistant professor of mechanical engineering at clemson universtity till she got fired by the board for speaking the truth saying that the buildings could not have came down so quickly without explosives.David gabbard is an east coast education professor who said he is smart enough to know that fire from airplanes cant mel steel which is the governments explanation by the way.

then there is daniel orr,a princeton P.H.D and widely published retired economics chair at the university if illinios.He said he knew immediately when he saw on television the world trade centers collapse that it was explosives.Theres your names,now stop believeing the lies of the government and listen to the independent experts like them and stop defending the governemtns lies.the government has nothing but a horrible history of lying to the public about historic events here in the states and that hasnt stopped with this case either.disinformation is all they know how to spread.again if you ever did any research on The Bushs you would know they are an evil crime family and why they would want this to happen. oh by the way,YOU know nothing about new york,it sure as hell has always been the most guarded by the military before 9-11.stop fooling yourself and being so frightented by the truth.

Actually Mr.Parker, you expert on things in a country in which YOU DONT LIVE IN.
You didn't debunk his points.

You don't think that this man that supposedly "lives in a cave" could have funded and planned this? He fought the Russians with terror attacks with the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. He was part of of the family that owns the richest Saudi Oil company, and HE ALONE has BILLIONS of Dollars in his accounts. He could have funded and planned those attacks easily, and because we've been in a zone of safety for so long, we didn't have protection
What makes you think "we're afraid of the truth" the Libs ALWAYS try to make the President look bad, and if this was true again, it would be out there, the Media is not controlled by the Government, in fact, it's the opposite, the Media always reports on every screw up
k? Thanks

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Actually Mr.Parker, you expert on things in a country in which YOU DONT LIVE IN.
You didn't debunk his points.

You don't think that this man that supposedly "lives in a cave" could have funded and planned this? He fought the Russians with terror attacks with the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. He was part of of the family that owns the richest Saudi Oil company, and HE ALONE has BILLIONS of Dollars in his accounts. He could have funded and planned those attacks easily, and because we've been in a zone of safety for so long, we didn't have protection
K? Thanks

What does MR.Parkers residence have to do with his facts? are you aware that a majority of new yorkers, don't believe the official story?

And who says this?
Oh and to clarify the importance of his Residence, he didn't see this Live on the News as it was happening, I saw both Planes hit, and the bottom stories as the building collapsed, good luck to the Government getting all those cameras, there were no explosives

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
And who says this?

The Zoby poll


Originally posted by Darth Kreiger

Oh and to clarify the importance of his Residence, he didn't see this Live on the News as it was happening, I saw both Planes hit, and the bottom stories as the building collapsed, good luck to the Government getting all those cameras, there were no explosives

Actually camera's have shown the cat tail effect taking place on the buildings

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What does MR.Parkers residence have to do with his facts? are you aware that a majority of new yorkers, don't believe the official story?

yeah big freaking deal if I dont live in new york,the majority of new yorkers saw the planes hit the towers as well but they dont have the same ignorant beliefs he does. this guy should defenitly be ignored in his ramblings.Living in new york means zilch on what he has to say.the majority of new yorkers will say differently than his nonsense.

My nonsense? I just read up on your Conspiracy Theories, and saw how almost all of them were debunked by experts.

Never heard of this Zoby Poll, but Polls can never be trusted, want to know why? Because of the what 2 Million people? (don't quote me on that number) only a Couple Hundred or less are actually polled, guess those 200 count for the Majority of the New York Population, /debunked
You fail to address not living here correctly, you did not see the news AS IT HAPPENED, you got it a day later, going to read up on this Alex Jones you like to worship

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
My nonsense? I just read up on your Conspiracy Theories, and saw how almost all of them were debunked by experts.

Never heard of this Zoby Poll, but Polls can never be trusted, want to know why? Because of the what 2 Million people? (don't quote me on that number) only a Couple Hundred or less are actually polled, guess those 200 count for the Majority of the New York Population, /debunked
You fail to address not living here correctly, you did not see the news AS IT HAPPENED, you got it a day later, going to read up on this Alex Jones you like to worship

Debunked, okay so please post all 200 smoking guns of 911 debunked by experts.

polls can't be trusted

I live in new york, and I read the paper.
The zobhy poll included 808 random people living in new york.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Debunked, okay so please post all 200 smoking guns of 911 debunked by experts.

polls can't be trusted

I live in new york, and I read the paper.
The zobhy poll included 808 random people living in new york.

yeah lest see your laughable proof that it was debunked and lets see all 200 smoking guns. polls so much cant be trusted. geez this guys is clueless.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Debunked, okay so please post all 200 smoking guns of 911 debunked by experts.

polls can't be trusted

I live in new york, and I read the paper.
The zobhy poll included 808 random people living in new york.

200 Smoking Guns? Not quite that many... it's basically the same thing elaborated on, so about 15 maybe less

Again, how does 808 people outnumber the other 2 million people? Polls can't be trusted, they are generally biased, and made to look like they are correct. Like for instance Presidential Campaigns, they always release polls that are taken in Cities/States that support their respective side.

Read up on your Alex jones, he's a loon

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
200 Smoking Guns? Not quite that many... it's basically the same thing elaborated on, so about 15.

No it's 200 I've read about 57 of those smoking guns. post all 200 smoking guns and refute all of them.


Originally posted by Darth Kreiger

Again, how does 808 people outnumber the other 2 million people? Polls can't be trusted, they are generally biased, and made to look like they are correct. Like for instance Presidential Campaigns, they always release polls that are taken in Cities/States that support their respective side.

Do you know how statisics and probability works?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No it's 200 I've read about 57 of those smoking guns. post all 200 smoking guns and refute all of them.




Do you know how statisics and probability works?

obviously not.

His logic that since he live since he lives in new york and I dont which makes him ore knowledgeable is so pathetic its not even funny.because for every thing he has to say about living in new york,I can find people who live in new york as wellwho will say otherwise.

Funny how I never said New York, but this country, and your statistics and probability, is flawed, you need at least half of the population for that poll to be even close to accurate, and good look polling several million people.
The "200 Smoking Guns" are basically elaborations again, about differant people being fired, killed, threatened, whatever you want. They are based on the same thing, they said this about that, and this happened to them, so this must be what happened!

And you still have yet to answer me seeing this as it happened, and you did not until the day after

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Funny how I never said New York, but this country, and your statistics and probability, is flawed, you need at least half of the population for that poll to be even close to accurate, and good look polling several million people.
The "200 Smoking Guns" are basically elaborations again, about differant people being fired, killed, threatened, whatever you want. They are based on the same thing, they said this about that, and this happened to them, so this must be what happened!

And you still have yet to answer me seeing this as it happened, and you did not until the day after

In a sad attempt of weasling your way out of debating these points you make a wild, baseless accusation about these smoking guns. I've read 57 of them and again your wrong, they are not all about people being fired.

No polls do not require half the population, polls involve a statistic revolving around the conceppt of 1 out of 10. then this porbability is applied to the population.

200+ 9/11 'Smoking Guns'

Found in the Mainstream Media
Connecting the dots. Where do they point?

PLANNED BEFORE, FUTURE IDEAS

1962 - US military drafted 'Operation Northwoods', a plan to commit terror acts in US cities, kill innocent people, hijack airplanes, and plant evidence as a way to trick the public into thinking Cuba committed an unprovoked attack against the US in order to support a war against Cuba. (ABC, Natl Security Archives)

March '00 - Filming begins for The Lone Gunmen's 'Pilot' episode that depicts a US plot to crash an electronically hijacked Boeing 727 into WTC and blame foreign terrorists to provoke war and increase military's budget (KC Star), March '01 - 'Pilot' episode airs on FOX TV, 6 months before attacks (TV Guide), Lone Gunmen co-producer hopes WTC attack wasn't 'somehow inspired' by anything they did. (KC Star)



PREPARATION

1999 - NORAD starts conducting exercises in which airplanes are hijacked and crashed into targets which include the WTC and Pentagon (USA Today), April '01 - NORAD requested a war games event of having a terrorist group hijack a commercial airline and fly it into the Pentagon. (Boston Globe)

Oct '00 - Pentagon conducts emergency training exercises of a mock passenger plane crash into the Pentagon. (Army)

June '01 - Terrorist act exercise involving an explosion is conducted near the Pentagon to test first team's 'external response.' (Military District of Washington)

Aug '01 - Raytheon and US Air Force successfully land pilot-less Boeing 727 using military GPS landing system that enables ground control to take control of hijacked plane. (Der Spiegel, Raytheon)

Sept '01 - 25,000 British troops ensemble in Oman near Afghanistan for 'Operation Swift Sword' and will help US in attacking OBL. (BBC, Telegraph)

Sept '01 - US pulls the plug on Muslim websites days before 9/11. (Guardian, BBC)

Sept 10 - FEMA rescuer Tom Kenney says he was deployed to NYC late Monday night before going into action Tuesday morning, the day of the attacks. (CBS video)

Sept 11 - Fort Belvoir near the Pentagon was conducting an exercise to test the security at the base in case of a terrorist attack. (Connection Newspapers)

Sept 11 - An airport emergency operations exercise is being conducted at Fort Myer, a mile from the Pentagon. (MDW, DC Military)

Sept 12 - FEMA was scheduled to participate in an attack drill in NYC. (9/11 Panel, NYC.gov)

PRIOR KNOWLEDGE

June '01 - Attorney General John Ashcroft stops flying commercial aircrafts because of a 'threat assessment'. (CBS)

Sept 3 - Author Salman Rushdie given US air ban. (Ananova)

Sept 4 - An Israeli owned shipping company moves out of the WTC. (Virginian-Pilot, Real Estate Weekly)

Sept 7 - Jeb Bush puts the Florida National Guard on alert (WorldNetDaily, MyFlorida.com), Sept 10-11 - President Bush is in FL, state that controversially handed him 2000 presidency (Telegraph), 9/11 - Jeb Bush declares state of emergency in FL immediately after 2nd tower fell (WorldNetDaily), At least 15 of the 19 hijackers have Florida ties. (Augusta Chronicle)

Sept 8 - Marine Aviation group moves further away from where explosion at the Pentagon will happen. (Leatherneck)

Sept 10 - Group of top Pentagon officials canceled travel plans for next morning because of 'security concerns'. (Newsweek)

Sept 10 - San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown receives travel warning 8 hours before attacks. (SF Chronicle)

9/11 - Employees at Israeli instant messaging company Odigo received text message warnings about attacks 2 hours prior. (Haaretz, Washington Post)

9/11 - Donald Rumsfeld predicts terrorist attack in US 2 minutes before 1st WTC plane crash (Fayetteville Observer), later predicts Pentagon crash minutes prior. (Telegraph)

9/11 - White House staff given Cipro, a full month before first cases of anthrax reported. (Washington Post)

9/11 - President Bush's cousin escaped death from the WTC thanks to a 'schedule change' the night before. (Ananova)

9/11 - Fiduciary Trust, located in the south WTC, had scheduled an emergency drill for the day. (NY Times)

9/11 - Larry Silverstein is not in his office on the 88th floor of the North Tower because of a 'doctors appointment.' (NY Magazine)

DECOYING, STAND DOWN

Sept 9 - NORAD conducts operation 'Northern Vigilance,' planned months in advance, which deploys fighter jets to Alaskan region. (NORAD, Toronto Star)

9/11 - Three F-16 jetfighters from Andrews AFB, 15 miles from Pentagon, are flown 180 miles away for training mission in the morning. (Aviation Week)

9/11 - Andrews AFB, home to DC Air National Guard and Air Force 1 & 2, had no jetfighters on alert. (Newsday, USA Today)

9/11 - US intel agency planned exercise in the morning to simulate plane crash into government building. (Boston Globe, USA Today)

9/11 - NORAD was running war game called 'Vigilant Guardian' in which the commander in charge thought first hijacking was "part of the exercise." (Aviation Week, NY Observer)

9/11 - FAA bans takeoffs at 9:26 am for all civilian, military, or law enforcement aircraft (FAA, Time)

9/11 - Shoot-down authorization not communicated to NORAD until 28 minutes after Flight 93 crashed. (9/11 Panel, Seattle Post)

Feb '05 - Donald Rumsfeld, Gen. Myers confirm there were total of four wargames on 9/11 from Rep. McKinney questioning. (C-SPAN)

WTC ATTACK

Jan '01 - Frank De Martini, deceased Mgr of WTC Construction & Project Mgmt, says in documentary before 9/11 that he believes WTC towers could sustain multiple hits from large jetliners, comparing it to poking a pencil through mosquito netting. (WTC-A Modern Marvel, DVD Talk)

July '01 - WTC landlord leased the entire WTC complex 6 six weeks before attacks. (CBS, Washington Times)

Twin Towers were hated, poorly designed money-losers subsides by the State and weren't torn down before because of expensive asbestos removal in which 9/11 benefited the owners by efficiently destroying the complex in a way that they didn't have to pay for any of it. (Baltimore Sun, Salon, Front Page)

Sept 6 - WTC officials recently took steps to secure towers against aerial attacks by installing bulletproof windows and fireproof doors in the 22nd-floor computer command center (Newsday)

Two week heightened security alert at WTC is lifted and bomb-sniffing dogs are abruptly removed days before 9/11. (Newsday)

Occupant in WTC says weeks before attacks they had "unusual" amount of evacuations from WTC and says he thinks "they had an inkling something was going on." (People)

9/11 - A Fiduciary Trust CEO from the South WTC is invited to early morning charity event at Offutt AFB hosted by billionaire Warren Buffett and is escorted to TV by military officers and sees 2nd plane crash into her offices. (Forbes, SF Business Times)

9/11 - A missile was reportedly launched from the Woolworth Building near the WTC. (NIST, WNBC, NY Daily)

9/11 - Rudy Giuliani says he was told South WTC was going to collapse. (ABC video)

Company hired to help clean up Ground Zero is control demolition experts, Controlled Demolition Inc. (Waste Age)

Preliminary tests show steel quality did not contribute to twin towers' collapse. (Boston Globe, Pittsburg Live)

Oct '04 - Fire in 56-story Venezuelan skyscraper spreads over 26 floors and burns for over 17 hours, but does not collapse. (CBS)

WTC Ground Zero workers claim they helped FBI find 3 of the 4 black boxes from planes that struck WTC, contradicting official accounts that none were found. (Philadelphia Daily News)

Bombs, flashes, other explosions

EMT Jeff Birnbaum near the South Tower says he heard an eerie high-pitched noise and a 'popping sound' then an explosion before the top of the tower leaned toward him and started coming down. (CEE News)

Firefighter Louie Cacchioli in elevator going to 24th floor hears a bomb go off and thinks bombs were set in the building. (People)

Firefighter Edward Cachia says the South Tower gave at a lower floor then where the plane hit because they thought there was internal explosions going off from hearing successions of 'boom, boom, boom, boom' before the tower came down. (NY Times)

Fire Captain Karin Deshore says there was orange and red flashes followed by explosions that were getting bigger going both up and down and then all around the WTC 2. (SF Gate)

Tom Elliott on 67th floor floor in WTC 2 felt explosion below him as plane hit, firemen going up told him of an explosion near 60th floor. (CS Monitor)

Commissioner Stephen Gregory along with a Lieutenant Evangelista from Ladder 146 say they both saw multiple flashes coming from the lower level of the WTC 2 right before it collapsed and mentions the flashes they saw are like what you'd see when they 'blow up a building.' (NY Times)

Nadine Keller from her balcony in Soho, NY says she 'heard the bomb' before she saw the buildings collapse. (BBC)

EMT Joseph Lovero reports hearing 'additional explosions' to dispatcher. (WNBC)

Edmund McNally phoned his wife from 97th floor of WTC 2 following the plane crash, says he heard explosions below him. (NY Times)

Mike Pecoraro and co-worker hear a loud explosion in WTC 1 basement and believes a bomb went off after seeing major damage to the basement floors. (Chief Engineer)

Janitor William Rodriguez in WTC 1 basement hears explosion below him, then the plane crash above him seconds later, then saw severely burnt man come out of basement elevator. (CNN)

Teresa Veliz on the 47th floor of the WTC 1 feels the building shake again more violently then the shaking from the 1st crash and hears explosions going off everywhere inside the building and also hears explosions when she was outside that she was convinced bombs were 'planted all over the place' and that someone was 'sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons.' (September 11: An Oral History)

Kim White from 80th floor of WTC 1 hears an explosion near the 74th floor. (People|2)

Witnesses reported hearing another explosion just before WTC 1 collapse, police said collapse looked almost like a 'planned implosion' designed to 'catch bystanders watching from the street.' (Guardian)

Third explosion reported at WTC 2 and part of the tower collapses afterward. (TCM News, TCM News)

Group of firemen discussing the collapse of WTC 2 said how each floor was pooping out as by being 'detonated' as if 'they had planned to take down a building'. (9/11 - The Filmmakers' Edit)

A member of the FDNY says when trying to get some people out that there was 'secondary explosions' and then subsequent collapses. (11 News)

A FDNY Firefighter says as he was getting his gear on and making his way to the stairway, there was a 'heavy duty explosion'. (CBS)

MSNBC Reporter Ann Thompson says at 10:30 when she got outside the building she heard a 'second explosion' and 'another rumble' then ran inside for cover when a fire marshal said they had to leave because if there was a third explosion the building might not last. (MSNBC)

NBC's Pat Dawson reports that the chief of safety of the FDNY told him that he received word of another bomb going off and when he tried to get his men out he said that there was another explosion which took place and thinks there were devices that were planted in the building. (NBC)

Eyewitness speaking in a studio interview says he was about five blocks away when he heard three explosions and turned around to see the building he just got out of collapse. (Studio interview)

An injured witness to one of the towers collapsing said it sounded like 'gunfire' and then all of a sudden he heard 'three big explosions'. (News interview)

NBC's Rick Sanchez reports that police have evacuated an area around the WTC because of a 'suspicious device' thought to be a bomb and say they think a van with explosives in it went off inside the WTC and fear that bombs have been planted in, or nearby the buildings. (MSNBC)

BBC's Stephen Evans reports there was a big explosion from 'much, much lower' in the WTC from where the plane crashed. (BBC)

WTC 7

9/11 - 6:47am, WTC 7's fire alarm is placed on 8 hr 'test' mode which any alarms received are ignored. (NIST)

WTC landlord Larry Silverstein says he gets a call from a fire chief about the WTC 7 and he recommends to him to 'pull it' and after they 'decided to pull,' they all watched the 7 collapse. (PBS video)

Firefighter Scott Holowach says he and his crew were just 'hanging out' until tower WTC 7 came down and went right to work to put the 7's fires out. (NY Times)

Paramedic Steven Pilla says he and his crew didn't do any further because they were 'waiting' for WTC 7 to come down. (NY Times)

Firefighter Lt William Ryan says he and his crew were told WTC 7 was going to collapse 'around 3 pm' and 'fell back' until it came down. (NY Times)

Firefighter Frank Sweeney says he and his crew were sent back down near the WTC 7 and 'stood and waited' for it to come down. (NY Times)

WTC 7 becomes first steel high-rise building in history to collapse solely from an alleged fire. (Chicago Tribune, Stanford Report)

The collapse of the 47 story WTC 7 skyscraper hardly gets any media attention. (NY Times)

WTC 7 debris was removed without investigators having the chance to examine it at the scene to help determine the cause of failure. (History Channel)

FEMA report concludes specifics of WTC 7 fires and how they caused it to collapse remain unknown and call for further investigation and also says the building collapsed as a result of an 'implosion.' (FEMA)

PENTAGON ATTACK

Sept 10 - Pentagon medic is on the phone with FBI talking about who has command of their emergency plane crash plan. (Army)

9/11 - Emergency equipment for Pentagon's emergency plane crash plans were already out of storage for inventory check before Pentagon crash. (Army)

9/11 - Hours before crash, a Pentagon medic was studying disaster plan based on unlikely scenario of a plane crashing into building. (Washington Post)

9/11 - Flight 77's radar stops near Ohio/Kentucky border and is the only one of the four hijacked planes that wasn't able to be tracked all the way. (Flight Explorer, Washington Post)

Flight 77 is piloted by ex-Navy fighter pilot who worked on anti-terrorism strategies in same area of Pentagon hit by his plane and a passenger on board is an ex-Navy Admiral, jet fighter pilot, and American Airlines captain who also worked at Pentagon. (Newsday, Washington Post)

9/11 - Multiple fire and medical units dispatched near Pentagon minutes before crash for high-rise apt. fire that was reported out when 1st responder arrived which allowed most units to proceed to the Pentagon. (Arlington County, Fire Engineering)

9/11 - Two clocks have their times frozen at about 9:32 from being knocked down from an explosion at the Pentagon. (Navy, Smithsonian)

Pentagon crash happened right in the middle of the only section being renovated to bolster it against an attack which severely limited damage and loss of life. (USA Today, Army)

9/11 - Many key emergency response people arrive at the Pentagon within 5 minutes after the crash. (Arlington After-Action Report)

9/11 - Gas station and hotel's security cameras recorded Pentagon crash, but FBI arrived within minutes and confiscated films. (CNN, National Geographic)

9/11 - Boy on Flight 77 is lectured by military father beforehand about dying who subsequently takes a 'rare day off' from working in same area of Pentagon that son's plane will later crash into. (MSNBC)

Pentagon construction worker says on Larry King Live that plane that hit Pentagon had 'fewer engines' than the other 9/11 planes. (CNN)

9/11 - Air traffic controllers thought alleged Boeing 757 flying towards the Pentagon flew like a 'military jetfighter.' (ABC, Washington Post)

Alleged Flight 77 hijacker pilot, Hani Hanjour, was described as a horrible pilot by his flight instructors, was the only hijacker who didn't have a passenger number or seat assignment, and was unable to rent a single-engine Cessna 172 one month before 9/11 because he had trouble controlling and landing it during a test flight. (CBS, NY Times, Washington Post, Newsday)

Describing a missile

USA TODAY reporter Richard Benedetto says aircraft he saw hit the Pentagon 'sounded like an artillery shell.' (USA Today)

Pentagon Renovation project coordinator Michael DiPaula says aircraft that hit the Pentagon 'sounded like a missile.' (Baltimore Sun)

Space News editor Lon Rains was 'convinced a missile' hit the Pentagon by the way it sounded and how fast it flew in. (Space News)

Pentagon network engineer Tom Seibert said he heard what 'sounded like a missile' crash into the building. (Guardian)

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Zogby_poll_finds_45%25_want_new_9/11_investigation

here's a new poll

Anyway refute all 200 points.

Describing aircraft very different than a Boeing 757

D. S. Khavkin says aircraft she and her husband saw fly overheard towards the Pentagon appeared to be a 'small' commercial aircraft. (BBC)

Steve Patterson says aircraft he saw crash into pentagon appeared to hold about '8 to 12 people' and sounded like a 'fighter jet.' (Washington Post)

USA Today Editor Joel Sucherman says he saw the body and tail of the aircraft that hit the Pentagon, but 'did not see the engines.' (CNN video)

Witnessed no/little plane debris at crash site

CNN's Jamie McIntyre live at the Pentagon scene says there's no evidence a plane crashed anywhere near the building other than pieces that are small enough to pick up by hand. (CNN video)

Engineer Steve DeChiaro says he was perplexed that a plane had crashed into Pentagon by seeing only a small hole in the building and seeing 'no tail, wings, no nothing'. (Memphis Online)

Army Captain Lincoln Liebner says remarkably there was 'no debris from the airplane' at the Pentagon when he got to the building. (Army)

Army Captain Allan Lindsley says he was 100 meters from the Pentagon crash site and didn’t see 'any of the plane.' (Army)

Nurse Eileen Murphy upon reaching the Pentagon crash scene says she was real surprised that the plane 'wasn't there.' (Army)

Sergeant First Class Maybon Pollock says he was in awe that he saw 'nothing left from the plane' at the Pentagon crash site after being told the size of the plane that had crashed there. (Army)

Will Jarvis of the Office of Secretary of Defense tried but failed to see the plane at the Pentagon saying there was just 'nothing left' and couldn’t see a 'tail or a wing or anything.' (U of T Magazine)

Smelled explosives, heard multiple explosions

Pentagon attorney Gilah Goldsmith said she smelled cordite, or gun smoke near the crash site. (Jewish News Weekly)

Don Perkal of the Office of Secretary of Defense said he heard two explosions minutes apart and heard that a bomb had gone off in the building and when he smelled cordite, he says he knew 'explosives had been set off somewhere'. (McSweeney's)

PENNSYLVANIA CRASH

June '01 - A major terrorist exercise 'Mall Strike 2001' is conducted in a PA county next to the one where Flight 93 crashes. (FEMA, PittsburgLive)

9/11 - Flight 93 reportedly lands at a Cleveland airport, adjacent to NASA Glenn Research Ctr, due to a bomb scare after a man over Flight 93's intercom says a bomb is on board and the plane will be 'returning to the airport' at about the time it is flying over Cleveland. (WCPO-TV, Pitt Post-Gazette)

9/11 - Witness at Flight 93 crash scene says there was nothing that could 'distinguish that a plane had crashed there.' (FOX video)

9/11 - Somerset county coroner says no remains were visible at Flight 93 crash site if the plane had 'stopped and let the passengers off before it crashed' and that the most 'eerie' thing was that he hadn't seen a 'single drop of blood' there. (Pittsburg Live, Washington Post)

Dec '04 - Donald Rumsfeld says Flight 93 was shot down in a speech. (CNN)



IGNORED WARNINGS, ALLOWING IT TO HAPPEN

1994 - US intel warned that terrorists might attack US using airplanes as weapons (CNN, CBS); 1995 - US warned of 'Operation Bojinka' plot to hijack planes and attack the Pentagon and CIA headquarters (CNN); July '01 - US and Italian officials were warned that Islamic terrorists might attempt to kill President Bush and other leaders by crashing an airliner into the Genoa summit. (LA Times)

CIA had low-level spies inside Al Qaeda three years before attacks (MSNBC), US intel overheard discussions of a major pending terrorist attack weeks prior to 9/11 (USA Today)

Jan '00 - CIA information about 2 alleged 9/11 hijackers in San Diego is squelched before reaching FBI. (LA Times)

US agents told to back off bin Laden's and Saudi Royals soon after Bush becomes president. (Ananova, BBC)

June '01- Convicted terrorist provided US with specific info about a terrorist attack, some was used in Aug. 6th memo. (Newsweek)

June '01 - Dept. of Defense changes hijacking rules, first time since 1997. (DoD)

July '01 - Armed pilots banned 2 months before 9/11. (WorldNetDaily)

July '01 - Briefing for senior US officials warns of spectacular attacks by terrorists with little or no warnings. (CNN)

July '01 - Agent's "Phoenix memo" warned FBI about OBL supporters taking flight training in Arizona, suggesting schools could be used for terror operations, but doesn't reached tops at FBI, CIA, and Justice Dept. until after 9/11. (CBS, CNN)

July '01 - Suspected 9/11 mastermind KSM receives US visa despite '96 terrorist indictment. (ABC)

Aug '01 - Israeli security issued urgent warning to CIA of large-scale terror attacks. (Telegraph)

Aug '01 - Taliban warns US of huge attack from bin Laden. (BBC)

Aug '01 - FBI supervisor said in conversation with headquarters that he wanted to prevent Zacarias Moussaoui from flying a plane into the WTC. (USA Today)

Aug 6 - CIA memo titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" warns Bush of attacks and plane hijackings in the US by OBL. (ABC, FOX)

FAA chiefs received 52 warnings in 6 months time period before 9/11. (NY Times)

All 4 hijacked planes were well below normal passenger loads, averaging only 27% full. (CNN, Washington Post)

FBI whistle-blower Coleen Rowley accuses bosses of ignoring 9/11 warnings and sabotaging investigation attempts. (Time, USA Today)

FBI translator Sibel Edmonds: 'I Saw Papers That Show US Knew al-Qaida Would Attack Cities With Airplanes' (Independent-UK)

9/11 Panel Chairman: 'Attack Was Preventable.' (CBS)

Senior FBI officials were warned about 70 times of 9/11 plot. (WorldNetDaily)

COVER-UP

9/11 - Ari Fleischer claims that Bush received no warnings about the attacks (White House), May '02 - Fleischer confirms that Bush was told by CIA a month before attacks about possibility of OBL terrorists hijacking planes in the US. (SF Gate)

President Bush (White House)
Gen. Richard Myers (DoD) Condoleezza Rice (CBS) Sect. Mineta and some NORAD officials all deny anybody was aware of the idea that terrorists would use airplanes as weapons (Seattle Post), 1999 - NORAD conducted exercises simulating hijacked airliners used as weapons. (USA Today)

Sept 22 - 'Airline Transportation Stabilization Act' becomes law which if 9/11 victim's families except, they can't sue airlines or US gov't for any reason. (Guardian, LA Times)

Sept 26 - Mayor Rudolph Giuliani bans all video and photography at Ground Zero. (Boston Globe)

Nov '01 - Bush signs Executive Order 13233 which limits public access to presidential records. (Boston Globe, NS Archives) Mar '03 - Bush signs Executive Order 13292 allowing for a broad range of documents to be kept secret for up to 25 years and gives classification powers to the Vice President. (Boston Globe, National Review) The number of documents classified by the Bush administration increased by over 50 percent since 2001 (Boston Globe) and they have classified more records in their first 2 years than President Clinton's last four years. (US News) Ex-Nixon legal aide says Bush Admin is the most secretive ever. (Telegraph)

Jan '02 - Steel from the WTC is shipped to China and India for recycling which has angered investigators, engineers and victim's families who say the steel could hold vital clues about why the towers collapsed and GPS trackers were installed on trucks hauling the 'highly sensitive' steel scraps away to be melted. (USA Today, China.org, ACSS)

Jan '02 - Fire Engineering says official WTC investigation is a 'half-baked farce' that may already have been 'commandeered by political forces' whose primary interests lie 'far afield of full disclosure.' (Fire Engineering)

March '02 - Pentagon security photos of crash are released, but Pentagon says gov't didn't 'officially' release them. (Washington Post)

May '02 - Bush Administration oppose a 9/11 investigation. (CBS)

June '02 - Records of 9/11 response not for public, New York City says. (NY Times)

Sept '02 - American Airlines continues to gag all employees from talking about Sept 11 hijackings. (WorldNetDaily)

Sept '02 - Bush admin denies lawmakers investigating 9/11 permission to reveal whether the president or White House staff received warning of potential terrorist attacks against US, including plans by al Qaida linked terrorists to use hijacked planes as weapons. (UPI)

Nov '02 - Bush names former National Security advisor and Unocal consultant Henry Kissinger to head 9/11 investigations. (CNN, CBS)

Dec '02 - WTC surveillance tapes and maintenance logs are among the missing evidence as investigators try to figure out why the WTC collapsed. (Ft Wayne Sentinel)

Dec '02 - Bush names Homeland Security Project Co-Chair who has business link to husband of OBL's sister to head 9/11 panel. (Fortune)

Jan '03 - 9/11 investigations get only a $3 million budget and 16 month time frame compared to the over $40 million spent on the 5-year investigation of the Clintons. (Washington Times, Washington Post)

May '03 - White House refuses to release 900-page Sept. 11 congressional report. (Miami Herald)

July '03 - 9/11 panel criticizes Defense, Justice dept's for not cooperating fully and CIA, FBI for intimidating witnesses. (ABC, Guardian)

July '03 - White House, CIA kept key portions of 9/11 report classified dealing with Saudi Arabia and reject Saudi requests to declassify. (Washington Post)

Jan '04 - 9/11 Panel has to interview two of it's own members about attacks. (UPI)

Jan '04 - Bush and Speaker Hastert oppose granting more time for 9/11 Panel. (Washington Post)

April '04 - Bush admin gags FBI translator Sibel Edmonds from speaking to 9/11 Panel about attack foreknowledge. (Independent-UK)

April '04 - Bush, Cheney meet together behind closed doors with 9/11 Panel without recorders, stenographer, or being under oath. (CNN)

FAA manager mangled, cut, and destroyed 9/11 tapes. (Washington Post)

President Bush's phone logs on 9/11 don't exist. (NY Daily News)

June '04 - 9/11 tapes reveal ground personnel covered-up attack response, kept things 'hush-hush.' (New York Observer)

July '04 - Almost 3 years after 9/11, technology only now exists to enable cell phones to work on airplanes at flying altitudes. (USA Today, New York Press)

9/11 report shows much of common wisdom about 9/11 was wrong. (Straights Times)

Oct '04 - NORAD takes their 9/11 response timeline off website (NORAD) after US Senator accuses them and FAA of lying. (Star Tribune)

Oct '04 - Inquiry begins about unreleased 9/11 report about civilian, military response timeline and will stay unreleased until after elections. (NY Times)

Alleged 9/11 hijacker rented room from FBI informant, FBI covered fact up. (Village Voice)

Some in 9/11 panel concluded the Pentagon may have lied about how they first reacted to the 9/11 attacks and debated referring the matter to the Justice Dept for a criminal investigation. (Washington Post)

Box cutters weren't allowed pre-9/11 by airlines industry. (9/11 Panel, CBS)

MOTIVES

1997 - CFR & Trilateral Comm member Zbigniew Brzezinski publishes a book urging the US to control the world's natural resources to maintain global domination despite public's uneasiness about US projecting external power and cautions it will become more difficult to get consensus on foreign policy with an increasingly diverse US society unless public perceives a massive direct external threat. (Brzezinski: 'Grand Chessboard') Sept 14 - Council on Foreign Relation member Gary Hart says 9/11 attacks is chance for Bush to carry out a "new world order." (CFR)

Sept 10 - Donald Rumsfeld announces Pentagon has lost track of $2.3 trillion (CBS, DoD), attacks came near end of fiscal year & important budget information was located in the damaged area (Arlington County), large number of fatalities at Pentagon were civilian accountants, bookkeepers and budget analysts. (Pitt Post-Gazette)

Oct '01 - Only 1 1/2 months after 9/11, the 342 page USA PATRIOT ACT is signed into law. (White House)

Oct '01 - Hundreds of gold bars that was stored under WTC 4 are discovered in a delivery tunnel under WTC 5 that was being transported on the morning of 9/11 by a 10-wheel truck that was crushed along with several other cars by debris, yet no bodies were recovered. (NY Daily News, Times Online)

Nov '02 - Dept of Homeland Security is created to lead the fight against domestic terrorism. (CBS)

Poll Cites GOP Gains Since 9/11 (Washington Post), Gov't terrorist warnings boost Bush's approval ratings. (Cornell U) '9/11 effect' won Bush votes on Democratic turf near Ground Zero. (New York Post)

Military budget increase:

Sept '00 - PNAC calls to increase US defense budget, but says won't happen absent a catastrophic event like a "new Pearl Harbor." (ABC, PNAC)

Sept 5, '01 - Rumsfeld asks Senate to approve new '02 defense budget which has largest spending increase since the mid 80's. (DoD)

FY 2002 budget request is a $37.8 billion, or 11.5% increase from '01 request. (DoD)

FY 2003 budget request is a $40.1 billion, or 10.9% increase from '02 request. (DoD)

Afghanistan, opium, pipeline

July '01 - US plans to invade Afghanistan by Oct '01 (BBC, Guardian), Sept 4 - White House approves plan to invade Afghanistan (CBS, USA Today), Sept 10 - Plan awaits Bush's approval (MSNBC), Oct '01 - US invades Afghanistan. (DoD) War in Afghanistan would have been politically impossible pre-9/11. (USA Today)

July '00 - Taliban bans cultivation of opium poppies in Afghanistan (BBC), Mar '05, Afghanistan opium production surges. (USA Today)

1997 - Taleban are in Texas for talks with Unocal about an Afghan pipeline. (BBC)

Feb '98, Unocal rep testifies before congress that an Afghan pipeline can't happen without a single stable Afghan gov't and asks the US to use it's influence to end conflicts there. (US House of Reps)

Aug '98 - Unocal suspends Afghan pipeline activities because of deteriorating political conditions there. (Unocal)

Dec '98 - Unocal drops out of Afghan pipeline consortium. (Unocal)

1999 - US paid entire annual salary of Taliban gov't in hopes to secure a stable Afghan gov't to allow US companies to build a pipeline there to connect to the Caspian Sea. (SF Chronicle)

May '01, US gives $43 million to Afghanistan and becomes their largest donor two years in a row. (CNN)

Some say current military campaign in Afghanistan has hidden objective - revive gas pipeline and open the way for U.S. companies to build further facilities to carry central Asian oil. (BCC)

Dec '02 - Afghan gas pipeline deal signed. (BBC, SF Chronicle)

May '05 - Afghan pipeline draws closer to reality, Afghan President said project was a 'top priority.' (Christian Science Monitor)

Iraq, oil

1998 - PNAC calls for a war in Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein who they say threatens Israel and the world's oil supply. (ABC, PNAC)

Jan '01 - Bush had pre-9/11 Iraq war plan according to Treasury Dept memo. (CNN)

Bush made plans for ousting Saddam and for Iraq's oil before 9/11. (BBC)

9/11 - Barely 5 hrs after the Pentagon crash, Rumsfeld begins strike plans against Iraq. (CBS)

Feb '02 - Bush admin was warned statements that Iraq trained Al Qaeda in weapon making was fabricated, yet they would later use same statements as foundation for military action in Iraq. (NY Times, AFP)

White House officials say privately 9/11 was main reason for war in Iraq (ABC)
, Bush says US is in Iraq because of 9/11. (CNN, White House)

Jan '03 - Memo reveals Bush was determined to invade Iraq despite UN backing and discusses ways to provoke Saddam into a confrontation. (NY Times, BBC)

Sept '03 - Poll later finds 70% Americans believe Saddam-9/11 link. (USA Today)

Downing Street Memo warned Saddam not a threat and US fixed intel around their war policy. (London Times)

9/11 Panel says no evidence connecting Iraq to Al Qaeda. (Washington Post)

Oct '04 - CIA report later concludes no WMD's in Iraq as Bush used to help justify war. (CNN, BBC)

Dec '04 - Ex-CIA agent says he was sacked for not faking Iraq WMD reports. (Washington Times

CULPRITS

Of the 18 PNAC members who urged Clinton to remove Saddam in '98, 10 will be in the new Bush administration such as Dick Cheney, Zalmay Khalilzad, Lewis Libby, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz. (ABC, PNAC)

PNAC member Vice President Dick Cheney was former Defense Secretary under the Bush Sr. Administration (DoD) and former CEO of Halliburton. (CNN) Cheney is still being paid by Halliburton (Guardian) and his stock options with them rose 3,281% in '04. (Raw Story) Halliburton was a large donor to Bush/Cheney campaign, is the top Iraq war contract recipient (Newsday), was awarded no-bid contracts by the Pentagon (CBS) and announced a 2005 second quarter 284% profit increase. (Halliburton)

May '01 - PNAC member Dov Zakheim sworn in as the Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) and CFO for Defense Dept and was former VP of a defense contractor which makes remote control and flight termination products. (DoD, SPC)

Sept 6 - large put options placed on United, American Airlines, Boeing and some purchases made through bank which used to be headed by Exec. CIA Director Buzzy Krongard. (SF Chronicle)

Sept 10 - 'Rumsfeld's Rules' are revised for the first and only time to include the rule, 'America ain't what's wrong with the world.' (Daily Kos, DoD)

Sept 10 - Former Pres. and ex-CIA dir. Bush Sr. met with Osama's brother at Carlyle Group meeting in DC. (Washington Post), is at the White House morning of attacks. (CBS)

9/11 - The official bin Ladin family's website domain expires. (Yahoo, Philly City Paper)

9/11 - Sen. Graham, Rep. Goss, and other US Intel committee members have meeting in the morning with Paki ISI director who had authorized $100,000 wire transfer to Atta. (Wall St Journal, Washington Post)

9/11 - An elite Israeli military commando who understands Arabic is seated near all hijackers on Flight 11. (WorldNetDaily)

9/11 - Bush proceeds with scheduled reading event after Rice tells him a commercial plane hit the WTC. (9/11 Panel)

9/11 - Chief of Staff Card whispers to Bush about 2nd WTC crash and says 'America is under attack' and immediately leaves without seeing if Bush would respond. (Boston Herald)

9/11 - After being told of attacks, Bush picks up book and reads with kids for 11 mins and after finishing, takes a few questions from kids before leaving. (FOX, St Petersburg Times)

9/11 - Bush gives speech at school exactly the same time he was scheduled to make speech there day before. (Federal News Service)

9/11 - Solicitor Gen. Ted Olson--who has admitted the US gov't lies and helped stopped FL recount that sealed '00 Bush win--claims wife Barbara called him collect from Flight 77 twice and is sole source that hijackers used box cutters. (9/11 Panel, MSNBC, USA Today)

9/11 - Israeli spies caught celebrating while filming themselves with WTC burning in background and later arrested and found with boxcutters, multiple foreign passports, maps linking them to the attack, explosives detected, and large amount of cash in their white van (ABC, The Forward, Bergen Record)

9/11 - Bush is never evacuated by Secret Service from School. (Globe & Mail)

Air Force Gen. Myers claims was never informed 2nd WTC crash and only became aware of it about same time Pentagon hit. (DoD)

9/11 - Former Israeli PM Netanyahu is asked what 9/11 attacks meant Israeli/US relations and he replies "It's very good." (NY Times)

Sept 13 - Bush Admin allows Bin Laden family and top Saudi officials to evacuated from US before general public flight restrictions were lifted. (NY Times, Tampa Tribune)

Oct '01 - Donald Rumsfeld says in a magazine interview that Pentagon was hit by a 'missile.' (DoD)

Bush twice says he saw WTC plane crash live on TV at Booker Elementary (Boston Herald, White House|2
), 1st crash happened at 8:46 am (9/11 Panel), Bush arrived at school at 8:52 am. (ABC)

Bush refers to 9/11 as 'an interesting day' (White House), says 2001 was a 'fabulous year' for Laura and he. (White House)

WTC leaseholder receives $861 million settlement for WTC 7, debt on 7 only $383 million (Insurance Journal), May '04 - Silverstein awarded single payout of $3.5 billion for WTC (CNN), Dec '04 - Silverstein wins extra $1.1 billion from court ruling saying attacks constituted 'two separate events'. (USA Today)

March '04 - Madrid bombings happen exactly 911 days after 9/11. (News 24, Snopes.com)

PATSIES, OPERATIVES

Osama had ties to the CIA (MSNBC), July '01 - OBL wanted by US since '98, undergoes medical treatment at the American Hospital in Dubai and is met by the local CIA chief (Guardian), Sept 10 - OBL undergoes kidney dialysis at Pakistani military hospital in which a "secret team" replaces regular urology staff. (CBS), FBI's 'Most Wanted List' does not mention OBL is wanted for 9/11 because they have 'no hard evidence' connecting him to the attacks. (Muckraker, Milli Gazette, FBI)

Five of the alleged 9/11 hijackers receive training at secure US military bases. (MSNBC)

CIA had tracked two of the alleged Flight 77 hijackers. (BBC)

The five alleged Flight 77 hijackers lived in a motel right outside the gates of the NSA. (BBC)

July '01 - Alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed receives a US visa despite authorities chasing him since 1994 and a 1996 terrorist indictment (ABC, LA Times), Oct '04 - KSM 'missing' in US custody. (SJ Mercury)

CIA says 1st WTC plane crash was an attack and Dir. Tenet blames OBL for attacks even before 2nd plane crashes (ABC) and the US is claiming Osama bin Laden is behind the attacks before the day is over. (ABC, The Post)

Taliban rulers condemn attacks and says Bin Laden didn't have the means to carry out such well-orchestrated attacks (TCM News), Sept 16 - OBL denies 9/11 involvement in press release (Guardian), Sept 28 - OBL denies 9/11 involvement in 'Ummat' Paki newspaper, suggests Jews or US secret services behind attacks (Khilafah), Nov 7 - OBL denies 9/11 involvement in 'The Dawn' Paki newspaper (Islam Online),

Sept 13 - Airplane passenger lists from all four hijacked planes list no Arab names. (Guardian - 11, 175, 77, 93)

7 of alleged 19 hijackers are reported alive, FBI Director admits some identities are in doubt. (BBC, LA Times)

Hijacker remains from Flight 77, 93 hijackers were identified at same military base and by a 'process of elimination.' (CBS)

Secret FBI report doubts Al Qaeda can stage another 9/11-type attack and says it knows of no sleeper cells in US. (ABC)

Mohammed Atta's father says Atta called him on Sept 12. (Guardian, PittsburgLive)

Framing

Sept 9 - Alleged Flight 175 hijacker pilot Marwan Al-Shehhi reportedly leaves behind Boeing 757 manuals, east coast flight maps, an airplane fuel tester, and a protractor in his hotel room. (Augusta Chronicle), Flight 175 was a Boeing 767. (9/11 Commission)

Sept 10 - Flight 93 hijacker Ziad Jarrah reportedly sends farewell letter and flight training documents to girlfriend of 5 years in Germany, but allegedly wrote address wrong and letter comes back and is passed to FBI; relatives say letter was fabricated to frame him. (BBC)

Sept 10 - Atta and two Arab men allegedly spew anti-American sentiments and leave a Quran and business card behind. (USA Today)

9/11 - Alleged Flight 11 hijackers Atta and Al-Omari caught on Portland, ME airport security video (ABC-AU, USA Today), Father says it's not Atta on security video. (PittsburgLive)

9/11 - Atta was only passenger among 81 people aboard Flight 11 whose luggage didn't make the flight and where found with incriminated evidence. (USA Today, WorldNetDaily)

9/11 - Press reports a group with 'Palestine' in the name claimed responsibility for attacks (CNN video), caught Israeli spy who was filming WTC burning says 'We are not your problem, Palestinians are the problem' (ABC), video shows Palestinians rejoicing over news of attacks, but later is shown to be staged (LA Times, Der Spiegel) '02 - Palestinian says Mossad sought to induce him to set up fake al Qaeda cell in Gaza and declare responsibility for various bombings. (Arabia Online)

Sept 13 - Student ID card of Flight 77 hijacker Majed Moqed reportedly found at Pentagon, still able to read name on it. (9/11 Panel)

Sept 17 - Passport is found belonging to alleged hijacker who's plane crashed into WTC. (CNN)

Sept 28 - FBI claims to find Arabic written letter in Atta's suitcase and additional copies at Flight 93 crash site and in car registered to Flight 77 hijacker at Dulles parking lot. (FBI, PBS)

Dec '01 - Pentagon releases poor quality video showing 'OBL' bragging about attacks and wearing a gold ring and watch which are forbidden in Islam, Bush Admin uses this video to vindicate US invading Afghan. (USA Today)
, Dec '01 - Osama bin Laden reportedly died. (FOX, NY Times), Oct '04 - Video of supposedly OBL admitting to attacks is released 4 days before election and gives Bush a boost in polls (ABC, NY Daily News)

Many investigators believe that some of the evidence allegedly left behind by the hijackers was 'meant to be found' and whatever trail was left was 'left deliberately for the FBI to chase.' (New Yorker)

Fundamentalist Muslims 'gone wild'

May '01 - Several alleged hijackers seen at Las Vegas Strip clubs (SF Chronicle), several also patronized Nardone's Go-Go Bar (Wall Street Journal) Flight 77 hijackers Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi hang out at Cheetah's nude bar (LA Times), Sept 10 - Atta and two Arab men allegedly spend hundreds on drinks and lap dances at FL strip club the Pink Pony. (USA Today)

July-Aug - Alleged hijacker Majed Moqed seen in two stores in Maryland looking over adult videos and books (Newsday, MSNBC), Sept 10 - Alleged hijacker Hamza Alghamdi watches a porno in his hotel. (Wall Street Journal)

Sept 5 - Two or three of the alleged hijackers go gambling on a SunCruz Casino boat. (St Petersburg Times, USA Today)

Sept 7 - Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi both seen 'wasted' at Florida bar called Shuckums. (St Petersburg Times)

Sept 9 - Alleged Flight 11 hijacker sleeps with a high-priced prostitute (Boston Herald), Sept 10 - Four alleged hijackers spend the night looking for prostitutes in Boston. (Boston Globe)


that were 200 9/11 SMOKING GUNS STRAIGHT FROM YOUR OH SO LOVED AND TRUSTED MAINSTREAM-MEDIA !!

HAPPY DEBUNKING DUDE

IMHO the best documentary bout 9/11 and the whole Police State issue. enjoy;
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6517776133137328105&q=alex+jones

How can American of all the people be stupidly massive to believe that Terrorist brown men crash planes into center? HAPPENED IT NEVER DID!! Conspiracy was brought upon and only internet movie maker could decode it. Airplanes actually didn't have people or pilot. Jumbo planes flew massively into towers by metal robots used with massive technical specs of alien technology to fly planes. SAME AS HUMANS OF REGULAR KIND!!! 93 Flight also had alien robots flying heavily. But damn people broke in cock pits and sabatoged the robots, then military of Bush picked up transmission of stuggle and shot Plane 93 into vaporizing. That not even close to all. After Robot alien flew heavy plane into towers, George Bush ran in buildings and planted bombs of massive of many floors. Able he was to do this because he take many classes to be stealth ninja with Conde Rice. He take so much vacation because HE WAS ACTUALLY SECRETLY TRAINED TO BE NINJA!! So all idiots who think government is telling truth, I feel sorry for stupid idiots of such who fall far stupid crazy talk. I tell truth. You must believe because i going to make internet documentary to prove it. WAIT JUST!!!!

Originally posted by Mr Parker




Oh really? I personally know many of the firefighters and policemen at the scene. None of them have been receiving death threats, nor did they see anything that resemble an explosion from a bomb. I suppose you'll call all of them liars too, huh? Yet you can't dispute them, because they were there in the middle of it.



On the Discovery Channel's World Trade Center: Anatomy of a Crash, more than one engineer is on camera stating that two 767's crashing into the towers at full speed never crossed their minds. But then again, I'm sure they were coerced into lying on camera for fear of their lives despite no signs of duress.



So what? It's a matter of public record that Larry Silverstein bought the seven buildings that made up the World Trade Center. If you don't even know that, you have absolutely no credibility.



Fired? Just like many other researchers that made outlandish claims, but refused to provide evidence to support their claims?



Minoru Yamasaki, the man who designed the towers is on public record stating that the building were not capable of surviving the two plane crashes on September 11.




Guy, I live in New York. Most of my friends and family are in the NYPD and the FDNY. New York was never the focus of increased protection of the military before September 11.



The evidence was not shipped to China. In fact, more than 80% of the debris was trucked to Staten Island to be examined.

What makes you a moron is not the information that you're providing, but the fact that you are outright disputing people who were actually in downtown New York right near Cortlandt Street when these events occured. You were nowhere near the site, and are only relying on the opinions of other, who were also nowhere near New York on September 11. Talk about denial.

Run along and go follow you leader, mindless sheep.

Originally posted by LMM
Oh really? I personally know many of the firefighters and policemen at the scene. None of them have been receiving death threats, nor did they see anything that resemble an explosion from a bomb. I suppose you'll call all of them liars too, huh? Yet you can't dispute them, because they were there in the middle of it.

psst only a fool acts all sure when he clearly didnt spend enough time looking into something..
29 seconds that rape your ''facts''
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=2032865563019209801&q=firefighters+9%2F11


On the Discovery Channel's World Trade Center: Anatomy of a Crash, more than one engineer is on camera stating that two 767's crashing into the towers at full speed never crossed their minds. But then again, I'm sure they were coerced into lying on camera for fear of their lives despite no signs of duress.

oh the discovery channel said so it must be true !! what a joke

fact of the matter is that the architect of the twin towers stated publicly that the towers were designed to take large passenger planes without collapsing.. plz get your facts straights before you piss all over people that try to help you..

So what? It's a matter of public record that Larry Silverstein bought the seven buildings that made up the World Trade Center. If you don't even know that, you have absolutely no credibility.

actually he leased them.. 200 millions insurance policy wich brought him $3.5 billion after the towers came down..
sure just another coincidence nothing to worry bout...



Fired? Just like many other researchers that made outlandish claims, but refused to provide evidence to support their claims?



Minoru Yamasaki, the man who designed the towers is on public record stating that the building were not capable of surviving the two plane crashes on September 11.


BOLLOX show me your public record !! infact like i stated before he said before his death in February, 1986, "We designed the towers to take multiple 707 jet strikes."


you believe him ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6cKNkjE7Ws


serious ?

you do know that he's ADMITTEDLY Skull&Bones right ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiisokDGbfA

as is kerry,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6qPUkVWzKM

and you may wanna invest another 10 mins for the Bush Nazi connection..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGK7rjCfkkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEj3fCir6mU

and whats the sceptics position on the standing down of NORAD ?
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-284176223159063480&q=alex+jones+9%2F11

and the DRILLS ?!!!!

just like they had drills on the day of the london bombings !

yet another coincidence !
i really dont mind you guys calling me a conspiracy theoriest if you guys dont mind me calling you a coincidence theoriest !

here you see the firefighter footage again and many more smoking guns.. good documentary - hands down..

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2228373998380330628&q=alex+jones+9%2F11

even charly sheen did manage to connect the dots for christs sake.. surely you should be able to do the same
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8728311081524620268&q=sheen+cnn

I'm mot gonna even get into how many people were told not to fly on September the 11th or the stock market activities during the days leading to 9/11:

Originally posted by King Of Spades
How can American of all the people be stupidly massive to believe that Terrorist brown men crash planes into center? HAPPENED IT NEVER DID!! Conspiracy was brought upon and only internet movie maker could decode it. Airplanes actually didn't have people or pilot. Jumbo planes flew massively into towers by metal robots used with massive technical specs of alien technology to fly planes. SAME AS HUMANS OF REGULAR KIND!!! 93 Flight also had alien robots flying heavily. But damn people broke in cock pits and sabatoged the robots, then military of Bush picked up transmission of stuggle and shot Plane 93 into vaporizing. That not even close to all. After Robot alien flew heavy plane into towers, George Bush ran in buildings and planted bombs of massive of many floors. Able he was to do this because he take many classes to be stealth ninja with Conde Rice. He take so much vacation because HE WAS ACTUALLY SECRETLY TRAINED TO BE NINJA!! So all idiots who think government is telling truth, I feel sorry for stupid idiots of such who fall far stupid crazy talk. I tell truth. You must believe because i going to make internet documentary to prove it. WAIT JUST!!!!



I don't know if I should laugh or not. This is the reason why I oppose the conspiracy forum.

so the reason why you oppose the conspiracy forum is because of funny ass clowns who take the piss outta conspiracy researchers ?!!

ye dude that makes sense

Originally posted by David Tsarion
Originally posted by LMM


psst only a fool acts all sure when he clearly didnt spend enough time looking into something..
29 seconds that rape your ''facts''

Well, two opposing eyewitness accounts throw the "facts" into doubt. You're choosing to believe what you want to, ignoring any opposing viewpoints simply because they disagree with what you want to believe. I witnessed the events live in person. I know what I saw. But British conspiracy theorist know so much more.






fact of the matter is that the architect of the twin towers stated publicly that the towers were designed to take large passenger planes without collapsing.. plz get your facts straights before you piss all over people that try to help you..

LMAO. A video interview with the men who designed the building stating they designed the building to pancake in a collapse is a joke? Now you're really stretching.

actually he leased them.. 200 millions insurance policy wich brought him $3.5 billion after the towers came down..
sure just another coincidence nothing to worry bout...

He was required to purchase insurance to protect the banks in the event of destruction of the buildings due to natural disasters, structural failures, and because of the 1993 bombing, terrorist attacks. These were conditions placed on him by the banks that loaned him the money. Larry Silverstein did not specifically request insurance against terrorism just to have it.

BOLLOX show me your public record !! infact like i stated before he said before his death in February, 1986, "We designed the towers to take multiple 707 jet strikes."

Way to pick out one sentence out of a whole paragraph. The towers were designed to stand up to the strike of a 707 where the pilot was incapacitated or trying to avoid hitting the buildings. There has never been any mention of securing the buildings against a 767 transcontinental flight flying at full speed into the structure. If you're as educated as you want people to believe, you would admit that these statements are theoretical in nature and never considered fact until proven in the real world. Before September 11, no jetliner had ever crashed into askyscraper at full speed. But I'm sure you've ignored the numerous interviews where engineers admitted that they had no idea how the towers would react to this type of event.

Alex Jones is a lunatic, he rambles about THE NEW WORLD ORDER! and the Government having parts in every damn thing that happens.

His supposed prediction of the Towers being hit and blamed on Bin Laden was a complete guess, and likely based from the fact that Bin Laden bombed the buildings 8 years before

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Alex Jones is a lunatic, he rambles about THE NEW WORLD ORDER! and the Government having parts in every damn thing that happens.

His supposed prediction of the Towers being hit and blamed on Bin Laden was a complete guess, and likely based from the fact that Bin Laden bombed the buildings 8 years before
He never blamed bin laden, and how the hell does he guess 911?

He said if acts of terror happen, we know who to blame.

Originally posted by LMM
Well, two opposing eyewitness accounts throw the "facts" into doubt. You're choosing to believe what you want to, ignoring any opposing viewpoints simply because they disagree with what you want to believe. I witnessed the events live in person. I know what I saw. But British conspiracy theorist know so much more.

funny that you would say that..
well so far i have shown you firefighters talking on camera about bombs in the building, and guess what ? they were in the building.. now tell me LMM you on teh scene guy did you go inside the towers ? or do you wanna tell me that just because you were in NY that day this means you know the truth ?!! are you serious ?

difference between us is, i have looked into both stories the official one (backed by your ''experts'' and various otehr people, many of the administration or close to it)

and i have looked into the alternative site (congressman, firefighters, fbi agents, cia agents, who all blow the whistle, silverstein admitting on camera that they made the descicion to PULL building 7, and various researchers who disproved the official story on every level)

now i ask you again


what about Norad standing down ?
at what temperature does steel melt ?
how many buildings collapsed from fire before 9/11 ?
why did some hijackers turned out to be alive ?
and why were otehrs trained by the US military ?
why did Pentagon officials cancel September 11 flying plans a day before on sep 10th ?
and WTF about the CIA running drills on september 11th of excately the same scenario(hijacked planes) on the same targets ??????!!!!!!!!!!!


see the only argument against all the evidence is the thought that your government wouldn't do this.. i know thats a powerfull gatekeeeper but consider the possibility .

i mean the evidence is staggering (never mind common sense)



fact of the matter is that the architect of the twin towers stated publicly that the towers were designed to take large passenger planes without collapsing.. plz get your facts straights before you piss all over people that try to help you..

LMAO. A video interview with the men who designed the building stating they designed the building to pancake in a collapse is a joke? Now you're really stretching.

link to it dude, never mind that that is as much proof as a fart in the wind.. but still link to it plz, ya know like i link to things..


actually he leased them.. 200 millions insurance policy wich brought him $3.5 billion after the towers came down..
sure just another coincidence nothing to worry bout...

He was required to purchase insurance to protect the banks in the event of destruction of the buildings due to natural disasters, structural failures, and because of the 1993 bombing, terrorist attacks. These were conditions placed on him by the banks that loaned him the money. Larry Silverstein did not specifically request insurance against terrorism just to have it.

he decided to insure the building and he used 22 different companies to do so..
the bankers you're talking bout are the main investors btw, not lenders! silverstein just paid 12 -14 millions outta his own pocket..


BOLLOX show me your public record !! infact like i stated before he said before his death in February, 1986, "We designed the towers to take multiple 707 jet strikes."

Way to pick out one sentence out of a whole paragraph. The towers were designed to stand up to the strike of a 707 where the pilot was incapacitated or trying to avoid hitting the buildings. There has never been any mention of securing the buildings against a 767 transcontinental flight flying at full speed into the structure. If you're as educated as you want people to believe, you would admit that these statements are theoretical in nature and never considered fact until proven in the real world. Before September 11, no jetliner had ever crashed into askyscraper at full speed. But I'm sure you've ignored the numerous interviews where engineers admitted that they had no idea how the towers would react to this type of event.

oh dear


ever read the Northwood Documents ? declassified you see but surely you havent heard of em since it wasnt presented on teh golden tabled together with what you should think about it by the mainstream media..
well here you go, read up on what your own government put to paper then come back and talk..
http://www.prisonplanet.com/northwoods.pdf

PS: also check this site
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

i dont care about other 9/11 researchers, i have looked at most of their material and many are spot on, others have obvious mistakes and easely disprovable ''facts''.. but then thats the idea - its meant to make the 9/11 truth movement look ridiculous, awash with half truths and dodgy conclusions..
some bad apples(deliberate or not) serve to discredit the whole movement. BUT when it comes to 9/11 then you cant **** with Alex Jones, he just sticks with what he can prove you see..simple as.. go on try to debunk anything stated on this link regarding 9/11

see if you go to the site and check the info then you'll notice that every articel leads to a mainstream news articel/site !
now surely if the official story is true(LOL) then it should be childs play to disprove JUST ONE of the many points beeing made..

if you're a honest guy and serious about this, then you'll spend some time and effort reading through all this articels full of smokin guns.. i'm open to any contrary evidence you can put forward to disprove or even just question any of the facts stated on this site..
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

your turn homeboy

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Alex Jones is a lunatic, he rambles about THE NEW WORLD ORDER! and the Government having parts in every damn thing that happens.

well bush talks bout the New World Order too, and he's really a lunatic

His supposed prediction of the Towers being hit and blamed on Bin Laden was a complete guess, and likely based from the fact that Bin Laden bombed the buildings 8 years before

he did indeed.. but bin laden never bombed the buildings ffs..
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8184253307321536024&q=alex+jones+9%2F11

Looniest Of All 911
Conspiracy Theories

Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one, often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. 'The CIA killed Hendrix', 'The Pope had John Lennon murdered', 'Hitler was half Werewolf', 'Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone' etc, etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So its hardly surprising that the events of September 11th, 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.

One of the wilder stories circulating about September 11th - and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs - is that it was carried out by nineteen fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they 'hate our freedoms.'

Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.

Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.

These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organising them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA - the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about nineteen Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer four planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly two hours, crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.

The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposturous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.

It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as 'the fruit loop' and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)ogical conclusions.

According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, nineteen Arabs took over four planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives, box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.

The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID - but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities - they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.

"Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"

"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."

"Very strange", thinks the security officer, "that's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or boxcutter and gas mask...and why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."

Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time , the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.

Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated,and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, "who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again. "Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?" "You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on...

Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story.

"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "The answer of course is that its just one of those strange coincidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen.

This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The 'improbability drive', in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens - just about all the time in their world. There is a principle called 'Occam's razor' which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor.

Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with with the silly story of the nineteen invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.

Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is near impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that September 11th, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas - after they had attached their masks, obviously - but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive.

So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of 'our freedoms', it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar - really impeccable Islamic behavior - and then got up at 5 o'clock the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find.

It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable.

Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.

Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along.

There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable, quite remarkable. Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically Kerosene, and which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 degrees Celcius has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vapourising sixty-five tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around fifteen tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum combustion temperature of Kerosene - let alone the boiling point - which is what would be required to vapourise a plane. And then there's about fifty tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of Kerosene.

For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as 'mumbo jumbo'. This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of Kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute. Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vapourised into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins.

"Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact", they state with pompous certainty, "watch any Bruce Willis movie."

"Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies?"

At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning backflip.

"Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin. Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vapourised into nothing. "But not big planes, with that much fuel", they shriek in hysterical denial. Or that much metal to vapourise.

"Yes but not hijacked planes!" "Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?" "Now you're just being silly".

Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vapourise into nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "It's a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact."

Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves - if not too many other people - that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vapourisation of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop.

But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of Kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant veritcal collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning Kerosene.

For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose Kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vapourising a sixty-five ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees centigrade for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of Kerosene is enough to:

- Completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft

- Have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel - melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel

- Still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building

This Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those Kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourised. And never again will I take Kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vapourised into nothing along with with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire.

These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning Kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the black smoke coming from the WTC indicates an oxygen starved fire - therefore not particularly hot - they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 degrees centigrade, without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics.

Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways.

Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and redefined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way?

The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of September 11th. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course.

Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why. "Muslim terrorists stole my notes,Sir." "No Miss, the Kerosene heater blew up and vapourised everything in the street, except for my passport." "You see Sir, the schoolbus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms."

Or perhaps they misunderstood the term 'creative science' and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework.

The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly Kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat - although 2000 degrees centigrade isn't really required, 100 degrees centigrade will generally do the job. This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city.

That's right, if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in New York, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft.

You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vapourised by the fuel tank explosion, maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.

So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time.

This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space inbetween. Each ring of building is about 30-35 feet deep, with a similar amount of open space between it and the next ring. The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat circular hole of about a 12 foot diameter through three rings - six walls. A little later a section of wall about 65 foot wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 feet and a length of 155 feet, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible.

But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of thermodynamics, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well? I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy theorist, this is 'mumbo jumbo'. It conflicts with the delusion that they're hooked on, so it 'must be wrong' although trying to get them to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour.

Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They nervously maintain that the plane was vapourised by it's exploding fuel load, and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behavior. That's a wonderful fruit loop. Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that the plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly backflip to explain the 250 foot deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building - even though the building shows no sign of such damage. As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat.

When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly - ignoring the undamaged lawn - while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from an 'irrecoverable angle.' How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity.

Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks.

As America gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime.

At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that was perpetrated on September 11th, and the subsequent war crimes committed in 'retaliation' are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged.

Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia.

Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about September 11th.

Let's not forget the FBI finding a the terrorist passports on ground zero, somehow, the passports: survived the flames and magically landed right in the FBI's hands.

yeah come on,I mean thats just ONE bad apple that has posted anything like this since the conspiracy forum got started.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
My nonsense? I just read up on your Conspiracy Theories, and saw how almost all of them were debunked by experts.

Never heard of this Zoby Poll, but Polls can never be trusted, want to know why? Because of the what 2 Million people? (don't quote me on that number) only a Couple Hundred or less are actually polled, guess those 200 count for the Majority of the New York Population, /debunked
You fail to address not living here correctly, you did not see the news AS IT HAPPENED, you got it a day later, going to read up on this Alex Jones you like to worship

yes.only in YOUR fantasy world were they debunked.the 9/11 commission has failed to prove their wild theorys are correct.AGAIN you living in new york means zilch,that point of yours is pitiful because other new yorkers saw it as it happened as well and a lot of them are saying things that contradict what the 9-11 fairy tale commission is saying.well if I worship jones,YOU worship the 9-11 commission people.dude stop letting the travesty you saw make you afraid of the truth. you have lost your credibilty here because not living in new york doesnt mean zilch to what actually happened .I wasnt in dealy plaza when kennedy was killed but I know enough from witnesses I have interviewed over the years and read what they saw that WERE there that what the warren commission told the people,like the 9-11 commission is a fairy tale because what witnesses saw and what the governemt explained are totally different,same with 9-11,whats witnesses have said contradicts the lies by the 9-11 commission.AGAIN, other new yorkers saw it live as well only they are not living in the same fairy tale land you are and know that it was an inside job. also,you only addressed parts of my posts not all my points I brought up and when you did it was just bullcrap like-no thats not what they said blah blah blah. as i said before,those firemen in jones vidoe were real firemen in new york and they are not repeating their storys anymore in the major news media because they had their loved ones threatened if they dont shut up.Obviously your extremely ignorant when it comes to government agencys and the media and how they operate because the government has a huge history that spans decades of lying about events like this and giving death threats to people who have a version that contradicts their own.damn your clueless about government. the reason the controversy goes on is because the facts of the case dont fit the explanation given by the government.The government has just given wild theorys but have no evidence to back upo their claims because again they destroyed all the evidence.jesus you dont listen.well I wont teach you anymore since you fail to listen.

LOL. You conspiracy theorists are so ineffectual it doesn't matter what lunatic ideas you have, you'll never have any influence over the masses.

BTW, I love the links to prison planet and other conspiracy as legitimate sources, when all they do is link to other conspiracy sites as sources.

Keep on with your bad selves. Good laughs are needed in this world.

Originally posted by LMM
Oh really? I personally know many of the firefighters and policemen at the scene. None of them have been receiving death threats, nor did they see anything that resemble an explosion from a bomb. I suppose you'll call all of them liars too, huh? Yet you can't dispute them, because they were there in the middle of it.



On the Discovery Channel's World Trade Center: Anatomy of a Crash, more than one engineer is on camera stating that two 767's crashing into the towers at full speed never crossed their minds. But then again, I'm sure they were coerced into lying on camera for fear of their lives despite no signs of duress.



So what? It's a matter of public record that Larry Silverstein bought the seven buildings that made up the World Trade Center. If you don't even know that, you have absolutely no credibility.



Fired? Just like many other researchers that made outlandish claims, but refused to provide evidence to support their claims?



Minoru Yamasaki, the man who designed the towers is on public record stating that the building were not capable of surviving the two plane crashes on September 11.




Guy, I live in New York. Most of my friends and family are in the NYPD and the FDNY. New York was never the focus of increased protection of the military before September 11.



The evidence was not shipped to China. In fact, more than 80% of the debris was trucked to Staten Island to be examined.

What makes you a moron is not the information that you're providing, but the fact that you are outright disputing people who were actually in downtown New York right near Cortlandt Street when these events occured. You were nowhere near the site, and are only relying on the opinions of other, who were also nowhere near New York on September 11. Talk about denial.

Run along and go follow you leader, mindless sheep.

Like you expect me to believe e NET poster I never met before to take YOUR word since your afraid of the truth? sorry, not going to happen.

see NOW your catching on.these are grown men,it never occured to you though that they had plenty of time to relax and get a grip of themselves.has happened all the time throughout history that people have been threatened that if they dont say a certain thing on the air that they get death threats.

again,there was NO damage to world trade center 7 yet he told the firechief to pull it.The guy should be on trial for that.

No they proved it with their evidence you just dont want to hear it and want to ignore it.yes she was fired,dont know WHY you find that so hard to believe.

ever occur to you that Minoro was threated with death threats if he DIDNT say that? the ignorance you display amazes me.

this applys to you as well,you expect me to believe a NET poster I have that I dont know? not going to happen.

uh yes it was shipped to china.dont know where you got that theory about staten Island.

no what makes you a moron is you keep making these false claims you know are not true.again people that WERE there have said things that contradict what YOUR saying.

its you and darth that are the mindless sheep since your so afraid of the truth. well I wont waste my time with you two anymore since you keep making up these false things that never happened or cannot comprehend that people would have been given death threats if they did not say what the government wants them to say.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Let's not forget the FBI finding a the terrorist passports on ground zero, somehow, the passports: survived the flames and magically landed right in the FBI's hands.

yeah thats pretty amazing.must be Houdini at work.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I'm mot gonna even get into how many people were told not to fly on September the 11th or the stock market activities during the days leading to 9/11:

great point.

Originally posted by LMM
LOL. You conspiracy theorists are so ineffectual it doesn't matter what lunatic ideas you have, you'll never have any influence over the masses.

I'm baffled !! i mean WOW !! seriously and there was me thinking we have a discussion about something..
well looks like another fruitcake dodged some serious questions.. tho i understand it to an extend, your whole theory is based on government lies, media spin and funny assumption plus straight up scientific ignorance from your side.
so of course you come to the point were you cant answer the questions rational and in a serious manner so instead you try the old you are all looneys without any point whatsoever thats why i refuse engaging in discussion anymore, move.. also known as the famous chickeninPinkTuTuJump

call me an optimist but i still think the seed got planted and with time it will grow, eventually



BTW, I love the links to prison planet and other conspiracy as legitimate sources, when all they do is link to other conspiracy sites as sources.

excuse me ? what an MASSIVE ASSUMPTION from your side the funny thing is, if you would have BOTHERED to actually click on the link you would have noticed that it does NOT link to other ''conspiracy'' sites but to NBC; CNN,BBC, FOX; Washington post, NY times, Time magazine, San Fran chronicle, observer you named it..
thats right dude, all your oh so accurate mainstream media but then that clearly contradicts your funny view of conspiracy sites always link to other conspiracy sites.. doesn't it ?


lections of a discussion with good ol' Tsarion:

Lec 1; always check the links provided by the person you argue with - otherwise it easely leads to you making yourself look like an utter fool..

Lec2; if you cant answer questions, dont ignore them and hope to overplay this little fact with acting all funny and throwing assumption all over the place in order to justify your retreat - due lack of knowledge on the subject you claimed to have studied..

Lec3: making wild generalization such as ALL conspiracy theoriest are ---------- makes you again look like someone quiet ignorant.. just my opinion of course..
i still have love for you like i have love for all of humanity.



Keep on with your bad selves. Good laughs are needed in this world.

people who think for themselves and who have some love for each other are needed.. ah yea and you need to wake up dude, its peopz like you that keep us down not the elite.. they wouldnt have any power if we wouldn't give it to them..


PS:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/northwoods.pdf
DECLASSIFIED US DOCUMENTS can you understand that ?
do those 3 words come through to you ?

ahhh thats right, i forgot you're into labels not information, my bad sorry maybe the DECLASSIFIED US DOCUMENTS gain more credibility when the name of the link is not associated with alex jones or any other ''Conspiracy'' RESEARCHER
so here ya go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

! WAIT !

in case wiki isnt good enough either, then go there:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf


About the National Security Archive

An independent non-governmental research institute and library located at The George Washington University, the Archive collects and publishes declassified documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act. The Archive also serves as a repository of government records on a wide range of topics pertaining to the national security, foreign, intelligence, and economic policies of the United States. The Archive won the 1999 George Polk Award, one of U.S. journalism's most prestigious prizes, for-in the words of the citation-"piercing the self-serving veils of government secrecy, guiding journalists in the search for the truth and informing us all."

The Archive obtains its materials through a variety of methods, including the Freedom of Information act, Mandatory Declassification Review, presidential paper collections, congressional records, and court testimony. (!!!!)
(tell me is that ''CLEAN'' enough for you ?)

Archive staff members systematically track U.S. government agencies and federal records repositories for documents that either have never been released before, or that help to shed light on the decision-making process of the U.S. government and provide the historical context underlying those decisions.

The Archive regularly publishes portions of its collections on microfiche, the World Wide Web, CD-Rom, and in books. The Washington Journalism Review called these publications, collectively totaling more than 500,000 pages, "a state-of-the-art index to history." The Archive's World Wide Web site, www.nsarchive.org, has won numerous awards including USA Today's "Hot Site" designation.


stick around a while and just look how many declassified documents are listed there..
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/index.html

who knows ? maybe you even read one or two..
its just YOU and documents declassified by your Own government..

The Government's 9/11 Facade is Crumbling

Any time two or more people are knowingly involved in the commission of a crime, there is, by definition, a conspiracy. This is not a theory, folks. It's a stone-cold, undeniable fact. So the real question about 9/11 is not whether there was a conspiracy, but indeed exactly who the conspirators are.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_john_per_060810_the_government_s_9_2f1.htm

Originally posted by David Tsarion
oh dear


ever read the Northwood Documents ? declassified you see but surely you havent heard of em since it wasnt presented on teh golden tabled together with what you should think about it by the mainstream media..
well here you go, read up on what your own government put to paper then come back and talk..
http://www.prisonplanet.com/northwoods.pdf

PS: also check this site
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

i dont care about other 9/11 researchers, i have looked at most of their material and many are spot on, others have obvious mistakes and easely disprovable ''facts''.. but then thats the idea - its meant to make the 9/11 truth movement look ridiculous, awash with half truths and dodgy conclusions..
some bad apples(deliberate or not) serve to discredit the whole movement. BUT when it comes to 9/11 then you cant **** with Alex Jones, he just sticks with what he can prove you see..simple as.. go on try to debunk anything stated on this link regarding 9/11

see if you go to the site and check the info then you'll notice that every articel leads to a mainstream news articel/site !
now surely if the official story is true(LOL) then it should be childs play to disprove JUST ONE of the many points beeing made..

if you're a honest guy and serious about this, then you'll spend some time and effort reading through all this articels full of smokin guns.. i'm open to any contrary evidence you can put forward to disprove or even just question any of the facts stated on this site..
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

your turn homeboy

great post david,you so much took him to school. he is going to keep living in denial about it though because seeing the tragedy first hand was obviously a tramatic experience for him and darth and I DO feel for them if they lost any close friends in it,but because they choose to remain ignorant of the facts,they disgust me and they have done a disservice to their friends they lost if they did lose any friends from it by choosing to be afraid of the truth.what I think is so funny is that when they both adrressed my points or TRIED to,they only chose to try and address some of them while ignoring other of my points that shoot down the governments version and not enen touching them.

Okay here is why Darth and LMM have no credibility on their posts and WHY thier posts are so laughable.They go to say that because I dont live in New York that I know less than they do because THEY do live in new york. and saw it live first hand instead of seeing it on the news.That is hysterical because Like I said earlier,I can go out and find and interview people that WERE there who also saw it firsthand live as it was happening who will have storys different from theirs. so enough with this crap of living there makes me more knowledgeable than you do B.S. For instance,Like I said earlier,I dont go by just what Jones says on his website-btw truth believers like Deano and david-I got my-the truth is out there infowars.com bumoer sticker today and I can get one for you if you dont have one and want one.But going on to to another 9-11 website devoted to finding out the truth that I was at today-Not jones site,a different site.Here is an excerpt from someone who lived in new york and saw it first hand as well.

It was a perfect picture day in september.I was watering some plants on my terrace and enjoying the unseasonably warm waether when I heard the sound of a plane flying low.Withing seconds I watched in horror as the unthinkable unfolded,right in my back yard.

The shock was overwhelming.My first thougts was that it was a terrorist attack.This was confirmed by the news reports of Al Queda.But on ehting the reports left out was something I witnessed first hand.a very important omission at that.Seconds before the south tower crumbled to its doom I heard/felt a series of explosions.same with the North tower.

There was no denying it,I could feel the vibrations of them like a small eathquake.Yet when i turned on the news,none of the other eyewitnesses commented on this.Indeed in the days that followed,like many americans,I remained glued to the news networtks to keep myself informed of any developments and confirm what I had witnessed.But despite the numerous eyewitness accounts there was still no mention of explosives.I decided to examine the evidence for myself.theres on eyewitness there who knows the truth who saw it first hand,so enough of that I was there crap,that means diddly squat.i can find others there as well like this eyewitness.

LMM like other sheep is just going by what the governments explanation when saying the designer said it wasnt designed to withstand a jet attack.Tha Monero yakasaki guy or whoever is not the lead designer either and just because the government tells you he is on public record means zilch because ACTUALLy the lead enginer and designer who worked on the wtc expressed shock that the towers collapsed from the plane crash.:ee robertson is the actually the designer he was the towers structural engeer as well and he addresses the problem of terrorisem in the plans for the building claiming he designed it for a boeing 707 to hit it.he is ALSO on video expressing his shock about it so this LMM AND DARTH need to stop listenting to the lies of the 9-11 commission.

also the debris was sold to alan ratner of metal management of newark new jersey and new york based copmpany Hugo New schnitzer east and they qickly sold the debris overseas.these two guys really need to stop letting the government brainwash them with their lies.

Again, I never said I lived in the City of New York, but I know people who had friends that were in the towers. You did not see this as it happened again, it was likely a day later. You constantly attack us saying "LOL, they live in a fantasy world" "It must be so traumaticfor them LOL". Your "facts" are all a bunch of bull, that have an equal if not greater number of people that counter them, i.e. the experts on engineering and what not, and you cant even use proper grammer and paragraphs to relay them.

You think that the population of New York City is represented by 1200 people, let me get this through to you, Polls are inaccurate, and can not be used to represent anything. Presidential Polls are usually made in the states/cities/counties in which the large majority is known to support the candidate.


You say that experts claim the building should not fall like that, well let me ask if a Skyscraper has EVER been hit, intentionally ,at full speed, by a 767? Buildings like the Twin Towers are created to Pancake when they're falling down.

Also, you don't think that a man living in a cave over there could plan/fund this? Osama is himself a billionaire, and has experience with terrorism, plus like much of the Middle East, interprets his religion to mean, Kill AMERICANS!

The Air Force being moved, whoopty doo, we still had the Fighters to shoot down those planes, and they were in the Air, but we thought these Terrorists would try and demand something instead of just killing us

I would try to pick out more points, but since again, your grammer is horrible, it's kindive hard

I admit, the Government wasn't 100% honest, they very well knew there could be a terrorist attack, but we've been living in comfort for so long, we doubted it would happen, and they thought they could stop it. I think they may have shot down the plane (I forget what the flight number was) that was famous for being called "The Flight that Fought Back", but I think I also read somewhere the Plane went into a Nose dive from the cockpit though

PS: Do you wear a /tinfoilhat?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Again, I never said I lived in the City of New York, but I know people who had friends that were in the towers. You did not see this as it happened again, it was likely a day later. You constantly attack us saying "LOL, they live in a fantasy world" "It must be so traumaticfor them LOL". Your "facts" are all a bunch of bull, that have an equal if not greater number of people that counter them, i.e. the experts on engineering and what not, and you cant even use proper grammer and paragraphs to relay them.


It's sad, the greatest travesty in this world is dependence. you depend on these experts to tell you what happen. So, basically whatever they tell you, You accept as fact? why not learno to think for yourself, that's what people like alex jones,david icke, jordan maxwell, and other so called "Nuts" preach.


Originally posted by Darth Kreiger

You think that the population of New York City is represented by 1200 people, let me get this through to you, Polls are inaccurate, and can not be used to represent anything. Presidential Polls are usually made in the states/cities/counties in which the large majority is known to support the candidate.

Do you know how polls and statistics work?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger

You say that experts claim the building should not fall like that, well let me ask if a Skyscraper has EVER been hit, intentionally ,at full speed, by a 767? Buildings like the Twin Towers are created to Pancake when they're falling down.

I would try to pick out more points, but since again, your grammer sucks, it's kindive hard

PS: Do you wear a /tinfoilhat?

It's sad, you are a sheep, the towers were ment to take Hurrican force winds. unless your arguing a plane has that much force, and why would the building pancake if the plane was the cause, are you aware NSIT and FEMA have both said the plane was not the cause, but fire?

Now, how does fire started by jet fuel melt carbon steel, with fire retardent spray supported by 47 steel columns give way, how do you explain the fact fire has never ever caused a steel building to fall in the history of man-kind?

Or the building free falling with no resistance from 47 STEEL COLUMNS?

You haven't read all 200 points yet, they are follish. that makes you a sheep?

Do you even know the official story?

The Statistics arn't ever accurate, why the hell can't you understand that, your a conspiracy theorist for goodness sakes! You forget, the so-called experts that your God, Alex Jones interviewed fall in the same line, you believe them because it sounds like Government Conspiracy, it must be true! I'm going to follow people that are in the Public, and are credible. The buildings are designed to Pancake from the Force, and a Hurricane wouldn't bust through like that and create a Giant Hole in the middle of the buildings

I have firsthand accounts of what happened in those buildings on September 11. These are people that speak with regularly. People I have known for many years. People I trust. People that I know have nothing to gain by lying.

Can you provide these types of sources?

No, everything you can produce are third and four hand reports and interviews where 10 second sound bites are extracted from a 30 minute video.



This is a perfect example of how brainwashed you are. I've researched all of the conspiracy theory claims simply because they seemed plausible. You assholes don't consider anything outside of your beliefs plausible. Ask any educated sane person which is more plausible, a group of Arab terrorists hijacking planes or a worldwide government conspiracy to control the entire population of the world. I know what the answer would be.

That's not being brainwashed, it's being intelligent.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
The Statistics arn't ever accurate, why the hell can't you understand that, your a conspiracy theorist for goodness sakes! You forget, the so-called experts that your God, Alex Jones interviewed fall in the same line, you believe them because it sounds like Government Conspiracy, it must be true! I'm going to follow people that are in the Public, and are credible. The buildings are designed to Pancake from the Force, and a Hurricane wouldn't bust through like that and create a Giant Hole in the middle of the buildings


No, A hurrricane would make the building sway, And FEMA and NSIT,both said a plane was not enough to destroy the towers.

Alex Jones, As much as I respect him I barely look into his theories, but of course you wouldn't know anything about hinking for yourself, let the experts do that for you.

Originally posted by LMM
I have firsthand accounts of what happened in those buildings on September 11. These are people that speak with regularly. People I have known for many years. People I trust. People that I know have nothing to gain by lying.

Can you provide these types of sources?

No, everything you can produce are third and four hand reports and interviews where 10 second sound bites are extracted from a 30 minute video.

Right, the new york times, FEMA, NSIT, Firemen who were there, Structural enegineers are third rate.


Originally posted by LMM

This is a perfect example of how brainwashed you are. I've researched all of the conspiracy theory claims simply because they seemed plausible. You assholes don't consider anything outside of your beliefs plausible. Ask any educated sane person which is more plausible, a group of Arab terrorists hijacking planes or a worldwide government conspiracy to control the entire population of the world. I know what the answer would be.

That's not being brainwashed, it's being intelligent.

Okay, if you researched all the theroies, post responces to all 200 smoking guns.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, A hurrricane would make the building sway, And FEMA and NSIT,both said a plane was not enough to destroy the towers.

Alex Jones, As much as I respect him I barely look into his theories, but of course you wouldn't know anything about hinking for yourself, let the experts do that for you.

My comments were meant for Parker....he loves this guy

Again answer this, has a 767 ever hit a Skyscraper such as the Twin Towers at full speed, and intentionally? They would not know. Structural Engineers are on both sides, the majority against your claims I would bet

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
My comments were meant for Parker....he loves this guy

Again answer this, has a 767 ever hit a Skyscraper such as the Twin Towers at full speed, and intentionally? They would not know. Structural Engineers are on both sides, the majority against your claims I would bet

Have you read theOFFICIAL report from FEMA, or the NSIT?
It states the plane was not enough to destroy the building.

Answer my damned question! Has one ever hit before that incident? How the hell would they know that?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Answer my damned question! Has one ever hit before that incident? How the hell would they know that?

Because they did the official investigation, obviously.


Yes, planes have hit buildings before.
http://www.withthecommand.com/2002-Jan/NY-empireplane.html

I meant something the size of a 767.....and intentionally at full speed......

The fact that this never happened before means what they said is irrelevent, they would not know for sure if this would happen or not.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
I meant something the size of a 767.....and intentionally at full speed......

The fact that this never happened before means what they said is irrelevent, they would not know for sure if this would happen or not.

Okay, now your ignoring facts, do you know how big a B-52 bomber is?
Futhermore,intention doesn't matter, the plane hit it directly, and it did not fall.

First, you ask if this happen before, I proved it, now your saying it's not enough despite the official investigation saying otherwise.

Yes, B-52's are gigantic, but that was a B-25, read your own damn link, and nothing on this scale has ever happened, they could not give a for-sure answer

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Yes, B-52's are gigantic, but that was a B-25, read your own damn link, and nothing on this scale has ever happened, they could not give a for-sure answer

Okay, I just gave you a link showing a plane, yet it's not enough. Obviously a plane has hit a building before and it did not fall, so why WTC?

Not nearly on the size or Force, and it wasn't intentional or at Full Speed

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Not nearly on the size or Force, and it wasn't intentional or at Full Speed

Doesn't matter, the official investigation from FEMA and NSIT ( The people who explained why the tower fell) concluded the building did not fall as a result of the plane. those are the experts who side with you, they work for the government of the united states.

What proof do you have that they're wrong beside your own word?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Okay, I just gave you a link showing a plane, yet it's not enough. Obviously a plane has hit a building before and it did not fall, so why WTC?

Because the conditions where different, the Towers where not properly fireproofed, nor even constucted properly, corners where cut to save money...

Your just as bad...

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Because the conditions where different, the Towers where not properly fireproofed, nor even constucted properly, corners where cut to save money...

Fire proof or not, no steel building has ever fell due to fire before, unless your telling me the WTC was the only building that wasn't sprayed properly. Tsarion gave you a list, and you just nitpick things on it, man your delusional.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
=)

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
=)

That article was refuted





There are 200 smoking guns, not sixteen.

Really? Or do you just dismiss it because it debunks your crap

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Really? Or do you just dismiss it because it debunks your crap

1) There are 200 smoking guns,not sixteen.
2) There were no foot notes in the article, yet, popular mechanics claimed to make an investigation with experts?
3) Glaring errors in the article such as the claim that there was only a single interception in the decade before 9/11/01

Your "Smoking Guns" are Elaborations on the same thing, certain people being fired, killed, arrested, this person did this, so did these 5 other people, and your "evidence" is about the same thing as this

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Your "Smoking Guns" are Elaborations on the same thing, certain people being fired, killed, arrested, this person did this, so did these 5 other people, and your "evidence" is about the same thing as this

Point me 50 reoccuring, smoking guns right now, back up your claim.

The Smoking Guns were what you posted in the earlier parts of the thread yes? If that is the case, then you mentioned these people not being in building (Bush's cousin I believe?), FBI agents/"Experts" being threatened with being arrested, several "Experts" being fired? Government Operations that never took place?

I was assuming that was what you meant?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
The Smoking Guns were what you posted in the earlier parts of the thread yes? If that is the case, then you mentioned these people not being in building (Bush's cousin I believe?), FBI agents/"Experts" being threatened with being arrested, several "Experts" being fired? Government Operations that never took place?

I was assuming that was what you meant?


There right there, quote them and refute them. Why ask if their infront of you?

Are those the Smoking Guns you meant or not?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Are those the Smoking Guns you meant or not?

David Tsarion posted them, quote them and refute them.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
It's sad, the greatest travesty in this world is dependence. you depend on these experts to tell you what happen. So, basically whatever they tell you, You accept as fact? why not learno to think for yourself, that's what people like alex jones,david icke, jordan maxwell, and other so called "Nuts" preach.




Do you know how polls and statistics work?



It's sad, you are a sheep, the towers were ment to take Hurrican force winds. unless your arguing a plane has that much force, and why would the building pancake if the plane was the cause, are you aware NSIT and FEMA have both said the plane was not the cause, but fire?

Now, how does fire started by jet fuel melt carbon steel, with fire retardent spray supported by 47 steel columns give way, how do you explain the fact fire has never ever caused a steel building to fall in the history of man-kind?

Or the building free falling with no resistance from 47 STEEL COLUMNS?

You haven't read all 200 points yet, they are follish. that makes you a sheep?

Do you even know the official story? yep whatever they tell him,he accepts as fact and unlike jones,icke or and richard scholnick doesnt want to think for himself.yep yeah apparently he is not aware that FEMA and NSIT have both said it was the fire that caused it to collapse not the plane. Jones was talking yesterday about sheep like him that dont want to look into the truth and just accept the governments version. as I said,the REAL designer of the trade center is Lee Robertson and he is on tape saying it was designed to take a hit from a jet and not collapse like that.I will take the word over the desinger of the building any day of the year over some NET sheep poster who swallows the garbage and lies from the governement.

Originally posted by LMM
LOL. You conspiracy theorists are so ineffectual it doesn't matter what lunatic ideas you have, you'll never have any influence over the masses.

BTW, I love the links to prison planet and other conspiracy as legitimate sources, when all they do is link to other conspiracy sites as sources.

Keep on with your bad selves. Good laughs are needed in this world.

the ONLY conspiracy theoists who are ineffectual are Bush,cheney and other government officials.they are also the REAL terrorists.something else I forgot to mention is that you can see a film of the a helicopter being blown backwards near the towers when the towers collapse.experts have said that there is no way that the helicopter should have blown backwards like that just from the buildings collapsing,however the after shock waves from explosives they have said WOULD be consistant with the copter blowing backwards.plus there are witnesses there who said that they were like thrown so far away from the builidngs collapse when it happened which experts ALSO say is inconsistant for a building collapsing,some of the witnesses who went to the hospital for treatment of burns they received,they said they wound up a block away from the towers when it collapsed which again experts have said is impossible to happen from a tower collapsing,however with explosives going off,that would be logical for that to happen.These two sheep though dont want to look into that evidence though and admit that though.also,firemen ARE on record saying in their transmissions-Theres an explosion going off,theres another explosion,ect ect.and yet we are expected to believe some NET POSTER who "CLAIMS" he knows all firemen and police and new york and none of them are saying they have been given death threats.wow the ignorance amazes me,like even if they actually were telling the truth about that and from their ignorance on the governments explanation I seriously dounbt it,they dont seem to have comprehended that the firemen wouldnt be honest with them in the first place even if they actually do know these firemen like they so claim.their laughs with their absurd logic are amusing. yeah we need laughs in this world,keep up your hilarious spoofs.

Originally posted by LMM
I have firsthand accounts of what happened in those buildings on September 11. These are people that speak with regularly. People I have known for many years. People I trust. People that I know have nothing to gain by lying.

Can you provide these types of sources?

No, everything you can produce are third and four hand reports and interviews where 10 second sound bites are extracted from a 30 minute video.



This is a perfect example of how brainwashed you are. I've researched all of the conspiracy theory claims simply because they seemed plausible. You assholes don't consider anything outside of your beliefs plausible. Ask any educated sane person which is more plausible, a group of Arab terrorists hijacking planes or a worldwide government conspiracy to control the entire population of the world. I know what the answer would be.

That's not being brainwashed, it's being intelligent.

yeah yeah,same old blah blah blah,your hilairious that you expect me to believe a NET poster I have never known in my life to believe you when your so ignorant about government and the Bush family? not going to happen kid.I have done lots of research over the years about the bush family so I now how evil and corrupted they are. I have provided you with many sources that you continue to ignore,you dont want to hear the truth. so its a waste of time with you.no thats YOU who dont consider anything outside of your beliefs and have been brainwashed.any SANE person who knows something about government-something you obviously dont will agree with us,obviously you are not aware thet FDR let the japenese attack pearl harbour,that he wanted it to happen.thats been all over the history channel the last several years.thats all documented.half the country doesnt believe the official report because they know about how the government lies all the time to people,something you are extremely ignorant about.Being brainwahsed is not believeing what jones says, he has all the information to back up his claims.He even encourages people not to take his word for it,to do their own investigating. I also said that jones is not the ONLy source I have,that there are other 9-11 truth movements out there on the net I look at and that my last post wasnt from jones site,it was from another 9-11 truth movement site,you dont want to know the truth and you ignore it when I provide sources so again your not worth wasting my time with since you dont listen.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
People that think there's a Conspiracy around this really make me sick, do not blame our own Government for this, it was a bunch of Middle Eastern Terrorists, end of story

people like you who ignore facts and are afraid of the truth and who swallow that garbage that it was a bunch middle eastern terrorists make me sick.You and LMM do a disservice to your friends who were lost in that tragedy by being afraid of the truth. again it was an inside job by our government,period.end of story.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar


its funny,you go on to give him the names of the firefighters that he asks for and he STILL lives in denial about it.pathetic.just ignore darth and LMM,their not worth the effort anymore.

Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
The government knew it was going to happen, and did nothing. They used it like the adminstriation in '40 used Pearl Harbor to enter WWII, to rally Public Opinion.

Yeah thats what I pointed out earlier about pearl harbour.On how FDR knew the japenese were going to attack us and allowed it to happen to rally public opinion.same thing is happening here with George Bush.Yet you point this out and people like these two fools still live in denial about it.how pitiful.

Originally posted by David Tsarion
COVER-UP

9/11 - Ari Fleischer claims that Bush received no warnings about the attacks (White House), May '02 - Fleischer confirms that Bush was told by CIA a month before attacks about possibility of OBL terrorists hijacking planes in the US. (SF Gate)

President Bush (White House)
Gen. Richard Myers (DoD) Condoleezza Rice (CBS) Sect. Mineta and some NORAD officials all deny anybody was aware of the idea that terrorists would use airplanes as weapons (Seattle Post), 1999 - NORAD conducted exercises simulating hijacked airliners used as weapons. (USA Today)

Sept 22 - 'Airline Transportation Stabilization Act' becomes law which if 9/11 victim's families except, they can't sue airlines or US gov't for any reason. (Guardian, LA Times)

Sept 26 - Mayor Rudolph Giuliani bans all video and photography at Ground Zero. (Boston Globe)

Nov '01 - Bush signs Executive Order 13233 which limits public access to presidential records. (Boston Globe, NS Archives) Mar '03 - Bush signs Executive Order 13292 allowing for a broad range of documents to be kept secret for up to 25 years and gives classification powers to the Vice President. (Boston Globe, National Review) The number of documents classified by the Bush administration increased by over 50 percent since 2001 (Boston Globe) and they have classified more records in their first 2 years than President Clinton's last four years. (US News) Ex-Nixon legal aide says Bush Admin is the most secretive ever. (Telegraph)

Jan '02 - Steel from the WTC is shipped to China and India for recycling which has angered investigators, engineers and victim's families who say the steel could hold vital clues about why the towers collapsed and GPS trackers were installed on trucks hauling the 'highly sensitive' steel scraps away to be melted. (USA Today, China.org, ACSS)

Jan '02 - Fire Engineering says official WTC investigation is a 'half-baked farce' that may already have been 'commandeered by political forces' whose primary interests lie 'far afield of full disclosure.' (Fire Engineering)

March '02 - Pentagon security photos of crash are released, but Pentagon says gov't didn't 'officially' release them. (Washington Post)

May '02 - Bush Administration oppose a 9/11 investigation. (CBS)

June '02 - Records of 9/11 response not for public, New York City says. (NY Times)

Sept '02 - American Airlines continues to gag all employees from talking about Sept 11 hijackings. (WorldNetDaily)

Sept '02 - Bush admin denies lawmakers investigating 9/11 permission to reveal whether the president or White House staff received warning of potential terrorist attacks against US, including plans by al Qaida linked terrorists to use hijacked planes as weapons. (UPI)

Nov '02 - Bush names former National Security advisor and Unocal consultant Henry Kissinger to head 9/11 investigations. (CNN, CBS)

Dec '02 - WTC surveillance tapes and maintenance logs are among the missing evidence as investigators try to figure out why the WTC collapsed. (Ft Wayne Sentinel)

Dec '02 - Bush names Homeland Security Project Co-Chair who has business link to husband of OBL's sister to head 9/11 panel. (Fortune)

Jan '03 - 9/11 investigations get only a $3 million budget and 16 month time frame compared to the over $40 million spent on the 5-year investigation of the Clintons. (Washington Times, Washington Post)

May '03 - White House refuses to release 900-page Sept. 11 congressional report. (Miami Herald)

July '03 - 9/11 panel criticizes Defense, Justice dept's for not cooperating fully and CIA, FBI for intimidating witnesses. (ABC, Guardian)

July '03 - White House, CIA kept key portions of 9/11 report classified dealing with Saudi Arabia and reject Saudi requests to declassify. (Washington Post)

Jan '04 - 9/11 Panel has to interview two of it's own members about attacks. (UPI)

Jan '04 - Bush and Speaker Hastert oppose granting more time for 9/11 Panel. (Washington Post)

April '04 - Bush admin gags FBI translator Sibel Edmonds from speaking to 9/11 Panel about attack foreknowledge. (Independent-UK)

April '04 - Bush, Cheney meet together behind closed doors with 9/11 Panel without recorders, stenographer, or being under oath. (CNN)

FAA manager mangled, cut, and destroyed 9/11 tapes. (Washington Post)

President Bush's phone logs on 9/11 don't exist. (NY Daily News)

June '04 - 9/11 tapes reveal ground personnel covered-up attack response, kept things 'hush-hush.' (New York Observer)

July '04 - Almost 3 years after 9/11, technology only now exists to enable cell phones to work on airplanes at flying altitudes. (USA Today, New York Press)

9/11 report shows much of common wisdom about 9/11 was wrong. (Straights Times)

Oct '04 - NORAD takes their 9/11 response timeline off website (NORAD) after US Senator accuses them and FAA of lying. (Star Tribune)

Oct '04 - Inquiry begins about unreleased 9/11 report about civilian, military response timeline and will stay unreleased until after elections. (NY Times)

Alleged 9/11 hijacker rented room from FBI informant, FBI covered fact up. (Village Voice)

Some in 9/11 panel concluded the Pentagon may have lied about how they first reacted to the 9/11 attacks and debated referring the matter to the Justice Dept for a criminal investigation. (Washington Post)

Box cutters weren't allowed pre-9/11 by airlines industry. (9/11 Panel, CBS)

great post david.if these two would bother to read the evidence from the sources this is coming from,they would realise how ignorant they sound.

I admire this thread. good show king of spades, good show.

the theory offered is no more far-fetched than that of any other conspiracy theorist. You people are like Christians who are agast that people refuse to acknowledge their god.......yet they themselves refuse to acknowledge any of the hundreds of other gods of different cultures, past and present. Isn't it ironic.