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ok, as i see it, qui-gons death was obi-wans fault...i wouldnt be saying this unless i had a good reason either...i watched SW Ep.I again the other day cause i was bored, and at the end when they were fighting darth maul together obi-wan had the chance to kill him a couple of times, but wat did he do? nothing! but i kno, he was really upset that qui-gon was killed, and i feel bad for him(ok..do i have a fever?i usually hate obi-wan) but if he really wanted to he could have killed darth maul earlier and qui-gon wouldnt have died, unfortunatly for him and us, he didnt think, therefore he didnt take the chance to kill darth maul, and as a result to that, qui-gon was killed...

ok...well, it wont let me post for my own poll, but i would have chosen he didnt mean to... (even tho i kno that it was his fault), but he really didnt mean for qui to die

well, there is a website out (bob brown or something.... ush knows the url) where they analyse EVERY single move! And it explains a lot! If OB1 didn't always twirl he could have struck Maul 5 times orso


About the "it's obi wans fault", I haven't reached the novel of EpII yet, but in Approching Storm (EU) he talks with Luminara about it (he=ob1), and he says he deliberatly slows down the learning to learn anakin to have patience

Actually, that's not true, yerss. While it is so that Obi-Wan's displaced aggression twirls were the height of nonsense, if you look at how Maul responds to them it is clear he is treating them with contempt. Qui-Gon's more efficient blows were dealt with more harshly. If Obi-Wan had been more efficient, Maul would simply have been less playful.

I bow for the master

All in all, you can never really blame anyone for losing a fight. Both of them tried their best, it's not as if Obi-Wan thought at any point "I could kill him now... but I think I'll leave it..."

you can always blaim the one who got the lightsabre through him

You could even blame QGJ for having not taught those over-expressive moves out of Obi-Wan.

But I guess some of it must have taken because Obi-Wan was very much more austere by AOTC. And as for ANH... in fact, in a retro-continuity sense, that little 360 twirl Alec Guiness does in ANH is strangely pleasing because it reveals the small hint of the Padawan he was!

shocking... it was the only "active" move (I mean non-fencing) in the whole ANH

but if obi-wan hadnt been so busy jumping and twirling around like a ballarina, he could have killed maul, and qgj would have still been alive...

No, Sabrea. After all, Maul was all twists and flips as well. But he made no mistakes, unlike Obi-Wan.

But like I said to yerss, Maul would simply have been less casual with Obi-Wan if Obi-Wan had fought better. And in any case, Obi-Wan was fighting to the best of his ability.

And after QGJ died he did damn well.

Obi Wan is arogant and seems to like to put Anikan in his palce as a padawan

if obi-wan had fought like he did in the end when they had first come to maul then he could have killed him...and obi-wan likes to TORTURE anakin, i dont think he likes him very much...

torture?

I am glad he is mean to Anakin!

I very much doubt he woukld have beaten Maul if he had fought like that from that start, Sabrea. I mean, he didn't beat him when he DID fight like that, did he?

why is mean good?

Because Anakin is an even worse whiner than his son will be! Moan moan moan!

but obi wan doesn't understand!

Oh, he understands only toooooooooo well!

well, because OB1 acts like that, Anakin gets angrier!

That's Anakin's fault. And if the Council had listened to Obi-Wan and not let Anakin ponce around going back home and pouring his heart out to Padme all would have been fine.

yeah! I never liked that Mace type!

if obi-wan were nicer to anakin then anakin might not have turned to the dark side, he probably didnt want to be around some1 like that nemore...you see how he had no problems killing obi-wan, but he wouldnt kill his son, thats because luke didnt treat him like he was nothing, well, luke tried to kill him, but thats besides the point, luke didnt go around telling him, dont do this, dont do that that way, do this this way, obi-wan always had to have evrything his way, so anakin was sick of it, and when they told him that they he could keep his life if he turned to the dark side he jumped at the chance, probably because of the way that obi-wan was always treating him...

If Obi-Wan had been 'nicer' to Anakin he might have gone off the rails sooner. A relationship like that demands discipline and Anakin is absolutely FULL of himself. His head would have been the size of Coruscant of Obi-Wan had not kept him cut down to size.

Vader was perfectly happy to kill Luke if need be! It was Luke's helplessness and heartfelt appeal that persuaded Vader, not any innate niceness Luke had shown to him! After all, as we know, Obi-Wan once thought as Luke did.

Obi-Wan did a good enough job with the beginning of Luke's training so wouldn't that make Anakin the only variable there.

Oh, my gosh. Ush, we agreed! Hallelujia!

Shall we hug?

obi-wan still could have been a little nice, jjust a little, and luke hadnt been mean to ani/vader like obi-wan...

huh?

so the thread in GDF is now useless?

Well, let me see... Luke HAD been cruel in the trying to kill Vader sense... hmm...

?????????...

but he hadnt tho, he only tried to kill him because he was on the dark side, where as obi had been mean to him almost as long as hed known him...

Obi-wan is stern with Anakin because he is his student. But he wasn't always that way with him. He joked and giggled with Anakin in the elivator at the beginning of EP II. Obi-wan cracked dry jokes with Anikin the entire movie. The two were friends.

And as far as Obi-wan being at fault for Qui-gons death. . . . that's the dumbest thing I've ever herd.

well, Anakin is defying him...
'We will not succeed our mandate, my young padawan learner"
-"Why?"

because we don't have enough publicity?

yes we have!

...................................................still, watever...im just trying to blame some1 for my uncles death...

blame GL, he writes the stories!

*runs off to go find and strangle GL* j/k...

after 2005 please

Well in my opinion Anakin is already a little bit turned, the "clue" is when he is the garage of the Owens. When Padme brings him some food and he tells about what he did with the Tuskens. Listen to the music there and you will hear "The Imperial March". The turn has begun and he is doing it himself...so far

Yeah, Anakin is doomed.

ok, u guys, i cant tell u my sorces, but, when anakin and obi ARE having their little battle scene, and anakin is darth vader when they have their battle, if u want i can find out who wins and tell u, or u can just wait til the movie...u tell me, do u wanna kno now, or later??...

I belive that Anakin has not become Darth Vader when he confronts Obi Wan in the battle scene.

of course he isn't, he needs to get the scars first

and that's according to my source

trust me, hes darth vader when he does the scene...

oh please enlighten us then.....
hmm "obi wan once thought as you do".

Maybe Vader in name ,but not suited up

i never said he was suited up did i?? im pretty sure hes not, but he goes by the name darth vader when they battle, id have to check if he has his suit, but im pretty sure that he doesnt...

as I corrected my self with "Obi Wan once thought as you do"

wat?? obi-wan was always, jedi order this, dont break ne rules, and blah blah blah blah blah he NEVER acted like me, if i were in star wars i would probably be more like anakin, u kno, break all the rlules, turn to the dark side and kill my master, that type of person, lol...

he didn't kill his master...

Anakin is on the quick path to a blackhelmet by the end of AOTC

that damn ugly monster

Righto!

anakin (as darth vader) killed obi-wan in Ep.IV, and obi was his master...

nope! sorry. If Dooku would've killed Yoda (impossible) we would've said that he killed his master??? Obi wan was Anakin's master, to on epoint. certainly not Vader's

what does dooku killing yoda have to do with ne thing?? he didnt kill him, and anakin wasnt obis master, he was his apprentice...

i'd like u to show me where i wrote that anakin was obi's master...
Anyway...the dooku, yoada fight was just an example. If let's say Dooku would've killed Yoda, it wouldn't mean he killed his master

yes it would...

http://www.uniquehardware.co.uk/server-smilies/cwm/3dlil/nonono2.gif no, it wouldn't. it would mean that dooku was still Yoda's apprentice. You don't stay an apprentice ur whole like, ya know...

yea, but u would say he killed his master, as in his former master...

yeees, that's the word: FORMER

ok, watever, ur right...

course i am

u do realize that im just saying ur right to get u to shut up??...

yeah, i know that too

do you really save those little piccies.

She is Haydn's very only private stalker.

Stalker alaaaaaarm!!!!

the anakin pics?yes, i save all those, and i am NOT a stlker, i dont follow him around or nething, i would if i could, but thats another story...

what about saying u'll marry him all the time. Wifes are stalkers.
Xcuse me married guyz

if i were married to him i would have no reason to stalk him...

enough with this teen girly fantasies and back to SW .

-.- okok back to SW...

No it was not his fault! Qui Gon was the jedi MASTER. Obi Wan was just an apprentice and held his own very well. Qui Gon made the mistake and just cause you don't like Obi doesn't mean u can blame him for everyone little thing. Do u never think it was Qui Gon's own fault that he got a lightsaber through him? or that Maul was just that good?Obi wasn't like 'Ok I won't kill Maul now'. Why wud he do that?u don't think of things in a fight, u just fight and so what if he missed a kicked or whatever, he made a slight mistake, haven't u ever? I'm sorry if i come across harsh r anything but ppl like u who blame every little thing on Obi really pissed me off. Just cause u don't like him doesn't mean u shud make him out to be a bad guy cause he's not. Ok well that's my little rant over........for now!

No it was not his fault! Qui Gon was the jedi MASTER. Obi Wan was just an apprentice and held his own very well. Qui Gon made the mistake and just cause you don't like Obi doesn't mean u can blame him for everyone little thing. Did u never think it was Qui Gon's own fault that he got a lightsaber through him?Or maybe that Maul was just that good?If Qui Gon had of waited for Obi instead of running ahead maybe things wud have turned out differently and they cud of tackled him together and killed him but he didn't wait.Obi wasn't like 'Ok I won't kill Maul now'. Why wud he do that?u don't think of things in a fight, u just fight and so what if he missed a kick or whatever, he made a slight mistake, haven't u ever? I'm sorry if i come across harsh r anything but ppl like u who blame every little thing on Obi really piss me off. Just cause u don't like him doesn't mean u shud make him out to be a bad guy cause he's not. Ok well that's my little rant over........for now!

No it was not his fault! Qui Gon was the jedi MASTER. Obi Wan was just an apprentice and held his own very well. Qui Gon made the mistake and just cause you don't like Obi doesn't mean u can blame him for everyone little thing. Did u never think it was Qui Gon's own fault that he got a lightsaber through him?Or maybe that Maul was just that good?If Qui Gon had of waited for Obi instead of running ahead maybe things wud have turned out differently and they cud of tackled him together and killed him but he didn't wait.Obi wasn't like 'Ok I won't kill Maul now'. Why wud he do that?u don't think of things in a fight, u just fight and so what if he missed a kick or whatever, he made a slight mistake, haven't u ever? I'm sorry if i come across harsh r anything but ppl like u who blame every little thing on Obi really piss me off. Just cause u don't like him doesn't mean u shud make him out to be a bad guy cause he's not. Ok well that's my little rant over........for now!

sorry i know this is a repeat but I changed sum of it well i was writing and i accidentely posted the first one by mistake. sorry!

I read you the first time

Sorry a lot of it was basically the same I just forgot to add on something I wanted to say and I ended up for some reason getting it posted 3 times. Sorry bout that everyone!

there's an edit button for that

excellent post, leia. a little harsh, but we all get that way sometimes.

Hey, yeh yerssot, I'm sorry, I had 2 windows up at the same time, both on this message board cause I was trying to check something without losing my post and I sumhow ended up posting it 3 times. I tried to delete the extra posts but I couldn't so I'm sorry, I've already apologised like twice.

Thanks Rogue Jedi, I didn't mean to be harsh I just get mad at people like Sabrea who say things like that and it's really cause she just doesn't like him, not cause he didn't do anything wrong. I'm a big Obi fan so I just wanted to defend him.

Wud u mind if I added u 2 my buddies list thingie?

no need to apologise, just pointing something out to you and the others

Oh, sorry (again!) I just thought u sound at bit pissed off at me.

I notice lots of people think that of me

lol, I just thought u mite be one of those really pissy people who go around giving out to people for making mistakes on message boards or sumthing. I know ur not now obviously it's just hard to tell in what tone ppl say things when it's in writing, ya know? well talk to ya soon maybe!

Man this thread is old. But old is cool.

i would be honored to be on your buddy list thingie, leia.

cool, thanks Rogue Jedi! I was just wondering, how old are u?

ill send you a personal message. they are pretty strict here about staying on the subject at hand.

you ... could... check out Rogue Jedi's profile ...

back to the subject at hand. it wasnt obi wans fault. anakin went the dark side because he chose to. obi wan did what he thought was right.

Obi-Wan taught Anakin poorly, is still the established fact.

i agree that obi wan made some mistakes. mostly in taking on anakins training in the first place. as i said before, it should have been up to yoda or master windu. maybe even plokoon, ki adi mundi or kit fisto.