TPM Obi-Wan Vs AOTC Anakin

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Spartan ll
Takes place where the Gungans fought the BDs in EP1.Who wins?

Darth Sexy
TPM Obiwan showed more against Maul than Anakin did against Dooku..I'd give it to Obiwan.

Rampant ox
Yes, but Dooku is a far stronger competitor than Maul.

Advent
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Yes, but Dooku is a far stronger competitor than Maul.

But Dooku was actually toying with Anakin, Maul wasn't f*cking around.

Rampant ox
Originally posted by Advent
But Dooku was actually toying with Anakin, Maul wasn't f*cking around.

Exactly. Dooku toying with Anakin was still stronger than Maul going (arguably) his strongest against Obi-Wan.

Advent
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Exactly. Dooku toying with Anakin was still stronger than Maul going (arguably) his strongest against Obi-Wan.

Uh, what? That didn't make any sense, and what does Maul have to do with anything? Maul would beat Dooku if he fought the way he was toying with AOTC Anakin, so you're wrong.

Rampant ox
Im sorry I missed your point Advent, but either way the comment by Darth Sexy is illogical. Dook is far better than Maul so you cant use their respective fights as a basis for this battle.

I would say that AOTC Anakin would win, as long as he doesnt lose his head. Anakin is faster than Kenobi and has more natural talent with a blade. He was also one of the few jedi who survived the battle of Geonosis. I also recall Anakin taming a reek, the same Reek that almost killed Mace Windu.

Advent
Originally posted by Rampant ox
I would say that AOTC Anakin would win, as long as he doesnt lose his head.

Which in AOTC, is what Anakin tends to do a lot. Against Dooku, and even in the beginning of AOTC.



Prove this. Obi-Wan's speed is what helped him against Maul, and we all know how fast, and agile Maul is. Anakin's speed . . . got his arm lopped off? Not saying Obi-Wan's faster, or diminishing Anakin as a character, but you need to prove this assertion.



However, he's not at that point where that "natural talent" would be able to overcome Obi-Wan effectively. He's only had ten years training at this point, while it's impressive considering how rapid Anakin's power grows, it's not enough to grant him the win over Obi-Wan, who's had . . . twenty four years training, and was about to become a Jedi Knight.



Irrelevant. How is this going to beat Obi-Wan? It's not, so don't mention it.



Irrelevant. How is this going to beat Obi-Wan? It's not, so don't mention it.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Advent
Uh, what? That didn't make any sense, and what does Maul have to do with anything? Maul would beat Dooku if he fought the way he was toying with AOTC Anakin, so you're wrong.

Dooku wasn't toying with Anakin. Noticed with Obi-Wan he was taunting him throughout the fight but with Anakin he was dead serious; never said a world. His face was completely focused.

I have to say Anakin would win.

Advent
Originally posted by ESB -1138
Dooku wasn't toying with Anakin.

Yeah, and I am Egregious Prevaricator, respected scholar and grower of pipeweed.



Mmhm. Sure, he wasn't toying with him - I mean, he couldn't hurt him! Which is probably why he disarmed Anakin's second lightsaber within exactly 6 seconds. And which is why the AOTC novel says "Anakin was expending many times the energy of the efficient Dooku, and as soon as he tired..."

But yeah, despite the Count not even using nearly as much energy, disarming Anakin (literally), he wasn't toying with him, he was giving it all he had! When he sliced Anakin's arm off, that was toying with him. He could've easily killed him if he wanted to, but he didn't at that moment.

Rampant ox
Originally posted by Advent
Which in AOTC, is what Anakin tends to do a lot. Against Dooku, and even in the beginning of AOTC.

He had good reason to get angry in AOTC, but I see your point. However in this battle there is nothing to suggest that Anakin will get angry and lose control.




Obi-Wan was fast against Maul because he had lost control of his emotions. Also I would argue that the Count is as fast as Maul anyway - he was able to keep up with Yoda, whose attacks are described as a humming blur of light. But seeing there is no reason that either person will lose control in this fight the point is moot I guess. We dont have evidence to prove their duelling speed in a level headed duel.




I beg to differ. AOTC Anakin was able to duel with Count Dooku longer than AOTC Obi-Wan - and AOTC Obi-Wan is above TPM Obi-Wan. So while Kenobis years of training might help him, this doesnt mean that he will win. I mena, Dooku had 50 - 60 years on Anakin and still lost.



So is Anakin at the end of AOTC. Point moot.




I mention it because TPM Obi-Wan wouldnt have been able to survive in that arena, especially when experienced jedi masters lost there lives.

Advent
Originally posted by Rampant ox
He had good reason to get angry in AOTC, but I see your point. However in this battle there is nothing to suggest that Anakin will get angry and lose control.

What was his "good reason" to not listen to his master . . .? And what was his reason to be considered reckless throughout the entire movie practically? Anakin is naturally headstrong, foolhardy, and an idiot. Obi-Wan is not.



Wrong.

It doesn't say he was fast against Maul because of that. It says he's quicker than Qui-Gon, ergo he was able to "anticipate each blow". I find it hard to believe he can anticipate (predict) Maul's attacks while being in a blaze of fury.



Excuse me while I just ROFL my waffle.

ROFL.

Okay. Anyways, Maul > Dooku in speed. This is a given, you can argue it all you want, but you'd be completely wrong. Qui-Gon Jinn's age does play an effect in his speed, and this is made apparent in the novelization, so it's ridiculous to think Dooku's doesn't.

Maul's far faster than Dooku, don't even be ridiculous. He's described as "a warrior in his prime", referring to his physique, and physical abilities, and his speed is noted on several occasions.



So why did you say Anakin is faster? You made the assertion, but now you're saying you can't prove it and trying to direct away from the fact you can't? Bravo, Rampant.



So because he dueled longer, he's better? By this logic, Windu > Yoda because he had a longer saber duel, and TPM Obi-Wan > Qui-Gon Jinn.

Oh, and so you know - by this logic again, ROTS Obi-Wan > Count Dooku, since Obi-Wan lasted longer. Your point collapses.



ROTS Anakin is far different from his AOTC incarnation.

Originally posted by Advent
However, he's not at that point where that "natural talent" would be able to overcome Obi-Wan effectively.



Ridiculous assertion that begs for proof.



So AOTC Anakin > Jedi Masters? No. Ridiculous assertion, irrelevant to this fight, and quite frankly the dumbest thing I've heard so far all day; although, it's only been four hours into, so we'll see.

ESB -1138
Wrong.

It doesn't say he was fast against Maul because of that. It says he's quicker than Qui-Gon, ergo he was able to "anticipate each blow". I find it hard to believe he can anticipate (predict) Maul's attacks while being in a blaze of fury.

I have to disagree. Form II requires little effort to pull off and is capable of making cuts, parries, and thrusts will little effort thus allowing Dooku to not waste his energy and move quicky. If anything Dooku is a lot better duelist then Maul.

Rampant ox
Originally posted by Advent


What was his "good reason" to not listen to his master . . .? And what was his reason to be considered reckless throughout the entire movie practically? Anakin is naturally headstrong, foolhardy, and an idiot. Obi-Wan is not.

His reason was that Dooku had just captured him, captured his master, captured his girl friend, sentenced them to death, killed an array of jedi and seriously hurt Padme (or so Anakin thinks). This is why he lost his temper and ran in like an idiot.




No. " He struck at the Sith Lord with his lightsaber as if his own safety meant nothing, lost in a red haze of rage and frustration, consumed by his grief for Qui-Gon and his failure to prevent his friend's fall. The Sith Lord was borne backward by the Jedi Knight's initial rush, caught off guard by the other's wild assault, " There it states that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage. At no other point in the novel or script does it show Kenobi having the advantage - this is because at no other point was Kenobi in a rage.




I still disagree, but it is a matter of opinion I think. Dooku was able to go against Yoda - arguably the fastest duellist of the era. Makashi is a fairly fast form, it uses thrusts instead of swings meaning that the blade doesnt have to move as far - thus giving Makashi more speed than other forms.




Yoda is better than Mace, and Qui-Gon got tired because of his age, Obi-Wan sped up and fought better because he was enraged.



Hardly. ROTS Anakin and Obi-Wan knew each others moves almost off by heart, they had fought next to each other for many years. Quite different to the example I provided.

Advent
Originally posted by Rampant ox
His reason was that Dooku had just captured him, captured his master, captured his girl friend, sentenced them to death, killed an array of jedi and seriously hurt Padme (or so Anakin thinks). This is why he lost his temper and ran in like an idiot.

I didn't see Obi-Wan charging at him like an idiot just because he killed Jedi, sentenced them to death, etc.

As well, can you explain why Anakin is reckless in the beginning of AOTC? And why he is described as reckless throughout the entire movie?



You're an idiot. If you'd have actually read the TPM novel, and not copy and paste what I wrote in the other topic, you'd know what I was talking about. Learn the actual source material.

Here is what you wrote and what I'm arguing:

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Obi-Wan was fast against Maul because he had lost control of his emotions.

You were arguing about Obi-Wan's speed being able to keep up because he was in a blind rage, you were wrong. Here's the actual thing:

"...lunging and twisting, Darth Maul regained the offensive and counterattacked, using both ends of his lightsaber in an effort to cut Obi-Wan's legs out from under him. But Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down. "

^

Since you like to skirt the actual point, make shit up, and not have a clue what you're talking about, I'll just explain to you what all this means.

Obi-Wan did catch Maul off guard because he was in a rage initially. After that, Maul regained composure, and was attacking Obi-Wan, and Maul went for a sweeping movie apparently, and it was due to Obi-Wan's being faster than Qui-Gon (not because he was in a rage), he was able to anticipate Maul's moves. He was not in a "blind fury" when doing that, because:

1.) When it describes Obi-Wan in a frenzy it says this "lost in a red haze of rage and frustration" and that his assault was "wild".

Which leads me to...

2.) It'd be seemingly impossible to predict beforehand one's moves when you are that pissed off, that is what anticipate means.

The point is: Obi-Wan was quicker than Qui-Gon, ergo he was able to predict Maul's moves. Not because he was in a frenzy, but because he was faster than Jinn.



I meant to put "by this logic Mace > Yoda because he lasted longer in a saber duel against Sidious".

So, your logic and point collapses.



Either way, your point collapses.



Either way, your point collapses.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
I have to disagree. Form II requires little effort to pull off and is capable of making cuts, parries, and thrusts will little effort thus allowing Dooku to not waste his energy and move quicky. If anything Dooku is a lot better duelist then Maul.

What in the f*cking world are you talking about? Where in the f*cking world did I say anything about Dooku, and where in the f*ck does Makashi (Form II) come in. I'm discussing the reason that Obi-Wan was able to compete with Maul because of his speed. You need to either:

a.) Learn what you are talking about.
b.) Get your spectacles examined.
c.) Don't post.

I'd suggest all three, but it's up to you. I'm not going to hold your hand, just offer advice.

Deus Venèficus
Another one of the famous Motoko vs Rampant thread...

*Announcer's voice*

Well folks the two contesters for today are the famous Motoko and none other than the infamous Rampat Oxxxx!!!!!!

So far Rampant as been true to his name, rampaging through the thread with wild and unsupported garbage. Motoko is quick to counter however with a powerful defence of durasteel strong logic, but is it enough to stem the tide against Rampant's doggedness? Only time will tell...

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Advent
LOL.

And this is just another reason why I always enjoy Veneficus' posts! wink

Blaxican Hydra
Ten bucks says Rampant is going to WTFpwn Sama with his uber "If you can't win with reason, baffle with bullsh*t" technique.


Motoko you have no chance in hell, same with Medvoc.

Advent
Well, I easily have the chance to destroy their arguments, but the fanboyism just won't die! Basically, it's like a headless fanboy zombie that won't die. And I can't shoot it in the head because it doesn't have one. Perhaps a rocket launcher. . .

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Advent
What in the f*cking world are you talking about? Where in the f*cking world did I say anything about Dooku, and where in the f*ck does Makashi (Form II) come in. I'm discussing the reason that Obi-Wan was able to compete with Maul because of his speed. You need to either:

a.) Learn what you are talking about.
b.) Get your spectacles examined.
c.) Don't post.

I'd suggest all three, but it's up to you. I'm not going to hold your hand, just offer advice.

How f*cking retarded are you!? You said Maul was faster then Count Dooku. So the only way to determine speed would be to determine the speed of opponents (via: Maul and Dooku)

a.) Know what the f*ck you are b*tching about
b.) Get your f*cking head checked
c.) STFU

I'd suggest all three, but it's up to you. I'm not going to hold your hand, just offer advice to the retarded

Blaxican Hydra
Nope, all fanboys can powerlevel and have godmode.

I figure, the only thing that can defeat them is either t3h Admin or a dark Paladin erm

JaehSkywalker
Obi-wan wins.

Advent
Originally posted by ESB -1138
How f*cking retarded are you!?

I wouldn't be insulting my intelligence, pauper.



You replied to it on something that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. What you replied to was about Obi-Wan being faster than Qui-Gon, not about Maul versus Dooku in speed. If you wanted to reply to that you should quoted the correct rebuttal, you replied to something that had NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. MAUL. AND. DOOKU'S. SPEED.

And your rebuttal was illogical. Because Dooku uses Makashi, he's faster? Lol. It doesn't matter if he's the better duelist, he's not as fast, but his skill makes up for it.

Anyways, this is what you should've bolded/replied to, I'll show you since you are clearly incapable of doing such:

Originally posted by Advent
Excuse me while I just ROFL my waffle.

ROFL.

Okay. Anyways, Maul > Dooku in speed. This is a given, you can argue it all you want, but you'd be completely wrong. Qui-Gon Jinn's age does play an effect in his speed, and this is made apparent in the novelization, so it's ridiculous to think Dooku's doesn't.

Maul's far faster than Dooku, don't even be ridiculous. He's described as "a warrior in his prime", referring to his physique, and physical abilities, and his speed is noted on several occasions.

^

What you should've quoted. Why? Because it was the point you were replying to. The point that you quoted had nothing to do with Maul and Dooku's speed, but only Obi-Wan's.

Thanks for proving you're a moron, who doesn't know that you confuse people by your ability to quote the wrong thing.



Oh, big words coming from such a small minded individual - you really do surprise me. I'm glad you can demonstrate the ability to copy and paste what I write, but add a few more things that make it seem like you're more of an idiot.

So, you can either:

a.) Learn how to quote, and reply properly - so as you don't reveal the fact you truly are a moron (it's impossible to avoid, but this might prolong it for a post or two).

b.) Get your spectacles examined, or at least, put them on. Obviously you cannot see what you're replying to.

c.) Go back to hell, I'm sure Satan would rather have you working as his personal sex puppet than pestering adults on the internet.

And a new addition...

d.) Get a lobotomy, because you're clearly delusional, and have a severe mental disorder.

So, as I said: I'd suggest all four, but it's up to you. I'm not going to hold your hand, just offer advice.

I am sorry, though, that you can't come up with such witty retorts like I can, and you're forced to copy and paste what I write.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Advent
Yeah, and I am Egregious Prevaricator, respected scholar and grower of pipeweed.


that is probably the funniest thing I have ever heard on this forum. Sama seriously what are you smoking?

Deus Venèficus
Originally posted by Advent
LOL.

And this is just another reason why I always enjoy Veneficus' posts! wink

*Feels flattered*

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Rampant ox

Advent
Originally posted by Rampant ox
I can think of a number of reasons for this. Obi-Wan was the master thus needed to set the example, Obi-Wan didnt let his emotions control him like Anakin did, Obi-Wan knew how powerful Dooku was etc.

Because Anakin is a reckless, whiny piece of sh*t. stick out tongue . He thinks he is better than everyone and should progress faster than everyone. In some ways, in alot of ways, im ahead of him (referring to Kenobi).

Hey, Rampant, you know what you're supposed to be arguing against? This is the original point:

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I would say that AOTC Anakin would win, as long as he doesnt lose his head.

Now, given we know he's reckless (you admitted it), headstrong by nature, what's to suggest he won't be against Maul? Answer: Nothing, ergo we can only assume he'll think he can take him, and be reckless in doing such - resulting in leaving himself open, and thus dying.



Then you'd know you were wrong. So, you might need to go back to Sear's Optical, and get a new pair of spectacles. Either that, or get a good pair of contacts:

1800contacts.com

^

For reference, if you decide to take my advice - which I strongly advise.




Yes, the novel "backs you up" on that. Which isn't the original point we're arguing. Good thing we have a collection of everything written on these forums, so you can't snake your way out of this, and make stuff up:

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Obi-Wan was fast against Maul because he had lost control of his emotions.

You said that Obi-Wan was fast against Maul (and we were arguing about speed) because he lost control, you didn't say he "pushed him back because he lost emotions", or else I would've agreed with you. The entire time I was arguing about simply speed.



Hm, I'm glad you like to go into a complete different direction, so I'll show you what you did wrong, why you're confused, and I'm confused:

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Obi-Wan was fast against Maul because he had lost control of his emotions.

Originally posted by Advent
It doesn't say he was fast against Maul because of that. It says he's quicker than Qui-Gon, ergo he was able to "anticipate each blow". I find it hard to believe he can anticipate (predict) Maul's attacks while being in a blaze of fury.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
No. " He struck at the Sith Lord with his lightsaber as if his own safety meant nothing, lost in a red haze of rage and frustration, consumed by his grief for Qui-Gon and his failure to prevent his friend's fall. The Sith Lord was borne backward by the Jedi Knight's initial rush, caught off guard by the other's wild assault, " There it states that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage. At no other point in the novel or script does it show Kenobi having the advantage - this is because at no other point was Kenobi in a rage.

Now, do you see how what you responded to made no sense? We were arguing about Obi-Wan's speed being able to keep up because he was in a rage, I proved you wrong, and why it was bullshit. You then replied with "No", in other words, you were disagreeing with me that Obi-Wan was able to predict his moves because of his speed, and not because of his rage.

So, do you see how you confused me? Turned this into a misunderstand, and so on?



You said Obi-Wan was fast against Maul only because he was in a rage.



Sidious and Yoda saber dueled for 40 seconds almost exact. After 40 seconds, Yoda is tossed down, and Sidious starts throwing pods, and so on. Yoda gets back up, and his lightsaber never meets Sidious' again. Mace and Sidious saber dueled for a minute.



No, they weren't. When the scene comes back to them, they are in the same positions. Watch the scene cut (i.e. with no other scenes), they are in exactly the same positions, and the scene flows perfectly.



Yeah, but you're a fanboy, so who cares? x3

Xepeyon
Vulgar as Advent's comments occasionally are, she's right. Rampant, you're not making any powerful points - there as reliable as me saying I'm best friends with Ian McDiarmid. I would say give up, but this IS a VS fourm.

darthsith19
I'd say Kenobi. In saber combat Anakin is stronger (Gillard says he's a 7 in saber combat while Kenobi's a 6 or 7) and is likely stronger with the Force, too. However, both are very close in those catagories and Kenobi is far more mature and has had far more training, even achieving the rank of Knight and managing to kill a Sith Lord by the end of the movie. So I go with kenobi in one of the closest duels of all time.

Rampant ox
Originally posted by Advent

Now, given we know he's reckless (you admitted it), headstrong by nature, what's to suggest he won't be against Maul?




He is not fighting Maul he is fighting Obi-Wan. They are two completely different fighters.



No I dont think that we can assume that, especially when he doesnt have a reason. Yes I said (and still say) that Anakin is a moaning, arrogan,t whiny pile of sh*t and we have seen him run recklessly into battle. But he had good reason in AOTC, and I listed this reasons in one of my previous posts. If you can show me a time when he will was foolishly reckless going into battle then my point will collapse. But until then you have nothing to back up what you say.





Where was I wrong. You misenterpreting something I said doesnt make me wrong, quite the opposite actually. So why dont you take some of your own advice, get some glasses, and read my posts more carefully.




I dont know what the hell you are talking about now. I said that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage. You said you would have agreed with me if I had said pushed him back because he lost emotions". They are exactly the same thing. Rage is an emotion, and because of this emotion Obi-Wan was able to push Maul back. I hope that part of the debate has been cleared up now.




I didnt say that Obi-wan was able to keep up, I said that Obi-Wan was able to push Maul back. Two different things.



Again there has been a misunderstanding on both parts. Obi-Wan wasnt predicting Mauls moves because Obi-Wan was on the full blown offensive. He was attacking Maul, not keeping up, not blocking and certainly not anticapating. Just simply attacking, and because of this rage and the speed of his attacks he was abl to push back Maul.




Yes I did. Whats your point?

Advent
Rampant, you're hopeless.



I meant to say "there is no reason he won't be against Obi-Wan". Anakin is always headstrong, foolhardy, and an idiot in AOTC. He's also very reckless, and wild on a lot of occasions. So, my question is, what makes this any different?



Explain then, if you will, why Anakin is considered reckless before he even confronts Dooku? Explain his little stunt in the beginning of AOTC? Explain why he thinks he can beat everyone?

As I said above, Anakin is naturally, and for the most part in AOTC - reckless, so what makes this situation any different?



Oh, the opposite? How can that be when you yourself admitted in this very same post that there was a "misunderstanding on both parts"? How can I be wrong, if you misunderstood as well?

Answer: You can't, and it's not "quite the opposite". If you're going to attempt to sound smart, at least gather your thoughts correctly.



Read through your bullshit? I'd rather not. And my advice is saved for the delusional morons of these forums, which in actuality, is you and some other miscellaneous fanboys. So, do yourself a favor, kid, think first, post later.



Initially, that isn't what you were arguing. If you'd have got your spectacles examined, or got contacts (1800contacts.com) - you'd have seen it. However, for the sake of your sheer stupidity, see below for why you are so confused.



Yes, I did say that. However, you initially said that he was FAST against Maul ONLY BECAUSE he was in a rage. This was false, and/or you just don't own the actual material I was reading from (novelization).



You see, that isn't WHAT YOU INITIALLY SAID. I made it PERFECTLY CLEAR that I was arguing about SPEED ALONE.

Holy shit, you're dense.

Let me show you the entire point that we were arguing, and why you were wrong, instead of destroying your argument:

Advent: Obi-Wan's speed is what helped him against Maul

This first statement is key. I was saying you'd have to prove Anakin is faster, because you made the assertion first. I then added that Obi-Wan's speed helped him against Maul.

Rampant Ox: Obi-Wan was fast against Maul because he had lost control of his emotions.

Your rebuttal: He was only fast because he was in a rage.

Your rebuttal was basically implying heavily that he wouldn't be as fast if he weren't in a rage (given by the fact you also said "We dont have evidence to prove their duelling speed in a level headed duel.)

Advent: It doesn't say he was fast against Maul because of that. It says he's quicker than Qui-Gon, ergo he was able to "anticipate each blow". I find it hard to believe he can anticipate (predict) Maul's attacks while being in a blaze of fury.

My reply: No, he wasn't fast just because he was in a rage, he was fast because he was fast. Simple. The omniscient narrator says that "He was quicker than Qui-Gon", ergo he was able to predict (anticipate) Maul's moves. He wasn't even in a rage at that point, as it'd be seemingly impossible to anticipate moves anyways.

The narration proved that he wasn't fast just because he was in a rage. Hell, it was even past that point.

Now, here's where you f*cked up, and didn't make any sense:

Rampant Ox: "No. " He struck at the Sith Lord with his lightsaber as if his own safety meant nothing, lost in a red haze of rage and frustration, consumed by his grief for Qui-Gon and his failure to prevent his friend's fall. The Sith Lord was borne backward by the Jedi Knight's initial rush, caught off guard by the other's wild assault, " There it states that Maul was forced backwards because of Obi-Wans rage. At no other point in the novel or script does it show Kenobi having the advantage - this is because at no other point was Kenobi in a rage."

The initial "no" was you basically disagreeing with the fact that Obi-Wan anticipated Maul's moves because he was fast, and not because he was in a rage.

I explained this clearly that I wasn't talking about Obi-Wan pushing Maul back, and surprising him. I made it clear that I was talking about the initial point, but somehow - as you usually do - you managed to twist up shit, and confuse everybody.

Now, if you want to "reply" to this, in which I'm sure you will because you're an idiot, feel free - I'm not going to argue it anymore.



Rampant, do you understand anything? Seriously?

I said Obi-Wan's speed helped him against Maul, you said "n0 h3 was 1n a r4ge!!!!!!!!!//?!ONE!!". I quoted the TPM novel, and it said exactly this:

"...lunging and twisting, Darth Maul regained the offensive and counterattacked, using both ends of his lightsaber in an effort to cut Obi-Wan's legs out from under him. But Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down. "

If you actually owned the TPM novel (which I don't believe you do, I think you just copied and pasted what I wrote from the other topic), you'd have know what I was talking about.

Do you see that I was saying his speed helped him, I didn't give a specific point in time. I just said it helped him, you said it was only because he was in a rage. I just proved to you that he wasn't even on the offensive, and I wasn't talking about his initial flurry, you assumed I was, that is where it went wrong. Because you assumed something wrong.



Holy f*cking shit! You are too dumb. That is what I was ARGUING THE ENTIRE TIME. He was NOT FAST JUST BECAUSE HE WAS MAD, he was fast, because he was fast. He wasn't even in as much of a rage at that point, plus he was "anticipating Maul's moves".

Rampant ox
Originally posted by Advent
I meant to say "there is no reason he won't be against Obi-Wan". Anakin is always headstrong, foolhardy, and an idiot in AOTC. He's also very reckless, and wild on a lot of occasions. So, my question is, what makes this any different?

What reason at all does Anakin have to think he is better than TPM Oni-Wan, to get angry or to rush in foolishly? The answer is none. Yes he is known to, but he usually had good reason. He was reckless in the beginning of AOTC because he was about to catch the person who was tring to kill Padme, his soon to be girlfriend. He was reckless at the end of AOTC because he wanted to kill the person who has potentially killed Padme, his now girlfriend.



See above.

As I said above, Anakin is naturally, and for the most part in AOTC - reckless, so what makes this situation any different?




I said there was a misunderstanding on a different point.



Answer: Read things in context.




Bullshit? Hardly. And if you arent going to read through my posts then why dont you piss off. You cant argue if you dont take into account what the opponent has to say. I think Anakin would win and you think otherwise. Your word is not law and you saying that Obi would win doesnt make it so, so stop treating it as such.



Im sorry but I got lost in that sea of crap you posted. Ill state what I said for the last time. Maul had the advantage and was on the offencive the whole duel. Then he pisses Obi-Wan off and gets pushed back. At no other point in the duel does Maul get pushed back. This is becase once Kenobi lost control of his emotions he overwhelmed Maul and caught him off guard. No, Kenobi wasnt 'anticipating' Mauls moves at that point - but there was no need to. He was on a full blown offencive and Maul was forced to defend, not attack.




Lets put into simple terms. The whole duel Maul had Kenobi outclassed. In terms of speed power and skill Maul always had the advantage. Then he pisses Kenobi off and gets overwhelmed and forced backwards. OMG!! Could this be because Kenobi speeds up when he was in the rage?

kamikz
I'm always enraged over how Obi-Wan does a flip OVER Maul, when Maul is lying defenceless on the ground. So stupid....

Lord Saboteur
Originally posted by kamikz
I'm always enraged over how Obi-Wan does a flip OVER Maul, when Maul is lying defenceless on the ground. So stupid.... Obi-Wan at that point was just like any other Padawan: pretentious and stupid.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I'd say Kenobi. In saber combat Anakin is stronger (Gillard says he's a 7 in saber combat while Kenobi's a 6 or 7) and is likely stronger with the Force, too. However, both are very close in those catagories and Kenobi is far more mature and has had far more training, even achieving the rank of Knight and managing to kill a Sith Lord by the end of the movie. So I go with kenobi in one of the closest duels of all time. Wait, Nick Gillard is a perfectly decent source?

jollyjim311
Didn't Kenobi start his training at age 13?

Lord Saboteur
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Didn't Kenobi start his training at age 13? Like normal, impetuously stupid padawans.

jollyjim311
Then, how was Anakin too old...?

Or was Ob Wan just a youngling until he was 13?

Lord Saboteur
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Then, how was Anakin too old...?

Or was Ob Wan just a youngling until he was 13? All younglings are just that 'til age 13, and if they aren't selected by a master then "Bye bye!".

darthsith19
Originally posted by Lord Saboteur
Wait, Nick Gillard is a perfectly decent source?
As far as Jedi and Sith's lightsaber skills go he's a more official source than any book, comic or video game.

Infinity
obi wins. dont even have to say my reasons.

kamikz
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Didn't Kenobi start his training at age 13?



No I think he became a padawan to Qui-Gon at that point.... Or was he really trained that late??? No, can't be, they even hesitated with Anakin, who needed special procedures to be put in the jedi order....

Blaxican Hydra
In ESB when Yoda remarks about Luke being too old to be trained, Obi-Wan says he was to.

JaehSkywalker
Originally posted by kamikz
No I think he became a padawan to Qui-Gon at that point.... Or was he really trained that late??? No, can't be, they even hesitated with Anakin, who needed special procedures to be put in the jedi order....

he was a padawan to qui-gon before his 13th b-day. He got through. barely. he proved himself to qui. yes

and agreed with infinity. yes

kamikz
Originally posted by kamikz
No I think he became a padawan to Qui-Gon at that point.... Or was he really trained that late??? No, can't be, they even hesitated with Anakin, who needed special procedures to be put in the jedi order....


Obi-Wan says alot in the OT which is weird. stick out tongue


But where is this then, I wanna read it.... big grin

JaehSkywalker
Originally posted by kamikz
Obi-Wan says alot in the OT which is weird. stick out tongue


But where is this then, I wanna read it.... big grin


if you're talking bout the book.. i'm not sure if you are... it's the Jedi apprentice series... Obi-wan's padawan years...

Forcemaster
Obi Wan wins

Sith'ari
Nice bump.

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by darthsith19
I'd say Kenobi. In saber combat Anakin is stronger (Gillard says he's a 7 in saber combat while Kenobi's a 6 or 7) and is likely stronger with the Force, too. However, both are very close in those catagories and Kenobi is far more mature and has had far more training, even achieving the rank of Knight and managing to kill a Sith Lord by the end of the movie. So I go with kenobi in one of the closest duels of all time.

I agree, except I'd say Anakin would come out ontop more often then Obi would. But it would be hella close.

Anakin 5.6/10

Mesirus
dooku wasn't toying with anakin, but i'm still going with kenobi becasue i like McGregor :P

luk_im_ubar
EDIT due to annoying factor

Captain REX
Please don't type in caps, it's an eyesore.

darthsith19
Originally posted by Blaxican Hydra
In ESB when Yoda remarks about Luke being too old to be trained, Obi-Wan says he was to.
No. Yoda says "You are reckless!" and Obi-Wan says "So was I if you remember." Meaning he, too, was reckless, not he was to old.

yettoh
well AOTC anakin lost his arm to dooku and dooku lived obi chopped darth maul in half and obi wan held up a fight against qui gon and kenobi AOTC anakin nether realy teamed up with obi in that fight

JaehSkywalker
Originally posted by yettoh
well AOTC anakin lost his arm to dooku and dooku lived obi chopped darth maul in half and obi wan held up a fight against qui gon and kenobi AOTC anakin nether realy teamed up with obi in that fight



umm.. what?

Darth Kreiger
Originally posted by yettoh
well AOTC anakin lost his arm to dooku and dooku lived obi chopped darth maul in half and obi wan held up a fight against qui gon and kenobi AOTC anakin nether realy teamed up with obi in that fight

umm....what?

anyways, to finish this with a quick statement
Maul > TPM Obi-Wan
Maul > AOTC Anakin

AOTC Anakin is a reckless moronic, whiny bit**. TPM Obi-Wan is well-disciplined, has more experience/training, and actually managed to last against a Sith Lord at Padawan level. Anakin gets his ass kicked in about 3 seconds by the Count.

Obi-Wan > Anakin

JaehSkywalker
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
umm....what?

anyways, to finish this with a quick statement
Maul > TPM Obi-Wan
Maul > AOTC Anakin

AOTC Anakin is a reckless moronic, whiny bit**. TPM Obi-Wan is well-disciplined, has more experience/training, and actually managed to last against a Sith Lord at Padawan level. Anakin gets his ass kicked in about 3 seconds by the Count.

Obi-Wan > Anakin

thumbup

Rampant ox
Anakin is the chosen one, therefore not allowed to die before he kills Sids. So Kenobi loses by default.

Quinlan_Vos
Yep, I agree. AOTC Anakin wasn't showing anything impressive against Dooku. He was using long elegant attacks, which is why Dooku tools him. Anakin gets overconfident, angry, and doesn't think what he is doing.

TPM Obi-Wan gave Maul a bit of a surprise. Even when the Sith Lord regained composure, Obi-Wan still broke Maul's blade. Maul isn't a careless nor a toying person, so Obi-Wan was really putting quite a fight.


Obi-Wan takes this. It's a pity he didn't continue Ataru, otherwise he would have been really good as a Master.

darthsith19
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Anakin is the chosen one, therefore not allowed to die before he kills Sids. So Kenobi loses by default.
No, he could die and then the prophecy would just be unfulfilled, cause not all prophecies are fulfilled. That's the lamest excuse for why Anakin wins that I've ever heard, according to your logic TPM Anakin could beat DE Sidious just cause he's the Chosen One. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Quinlan_Vos
Yep he'll probably ram him with this and pull a Sebulba on him:


http://www.yavin4.com/multimedia/dal/pod/sebulba.jpg


but then again, Sidious will probably blast him with his Force Storm.

Bye bye Ani eek!


Basically, Anakin dies. Obi-Wan wins.

Darth Kreiger
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Yep, I agree. AOTC Anakin wasn't showing anything impressive against Dooku. He was using long elegant attacks, which is why Dooku tools him. Anakin gets overconfident, angry, and doesn't think what he is doing.

TPM Obi-Wan gave Maul a bit of a surprise. Even when the Sith Lord regained composure, Obi-Wan still broke Maul's blade. Maul isn't a careless nor a toying person, so Obi-Wan was really putting quite a fight.


Obi-Wan takes this. It's a pity he didn't continue Ataru, otherwise he would have been really good as a Master.


If he continued Ataru his fights would be cooler, but then Grievous would WTF PWN him, and he would not survive Order 66

Quinlan_Vos

Darth Kreiger
Ataru is too offensive, not good for blocking Blasters and several Oppenents, Grievous destroys people that attack him.

Whoever that Jedi is, she is not near as powerful as Obi-Wan, and I doubt as skilled with a Lightsaber

Advent
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
It's a pity he didn't continue Ataru, otherwise he would have been really good as a Master.

Obi-Wan was very, very good as a Jedi Master. Simply excellent really. He's probably the fourth best duelist in the Order. If he had used Ataru, he would have not only lost to Anakin, but lost to Grievous, and I doubt he would be as good.

Soresu + Obi-Wan = Great.

Quinlan_Vos
Why wouldn't he become good? Already as Padawan, he was that skilled. As a master, he would probably be as good as Anakin. In AOTC, he was back to square one except with Soresu.




Luminara is a pretty skilled Jedi. She trained Bariss Offee and she makes an appearence in Clone Wars 1. Since they're both Soresu users, and can work together, I say they can take down Grievous.

Darth Kreiger
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Luminara is a pretty skilled Jedi. She trained Bariss Offee and she makes an appearence in Clone Wars 1. Since they're both Soresu users, and can work together, I say they can take down Grievous.

......Not a clue who that is, either way, these Nobody Jedi all got owned by Grievous, Soeresu isn't invincibility for everyone

Advent
Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Why wouldn't he become good?

He wouldn't become as good.



No. As an enraged padawan, tapping into his darkside emotions, he was good. As we see later, Obi-Wan doesn't rely on his emotions to fuel him. Emotions make anyone a better duelist, but as we know - the usual emotions used to do that (anger, hate, rage) lead to the Darkside.

During the beginning of their duel, Obi-Wan was being tossed around like a ragdoll with ease.



No, Anakin would've killed him had Obi-Wan not mastered Soresu. Ataru is offensive, and so is Djem So. It was only Obi-Wan's defensive skills that saved him against Grievous, as Mace does say "the simplicity of your form will stop Grievous" or something along those lines.

Against Anakin? Lmfao. Say goodbye to Obi-Wan. He mastered Soresu to the highest degree, if he had done the same with Ataru - you'd have to prove that Obi-Wan with Ataru is better than Obi-Wan with Soresu. Which you can't. And we know that Obi-Wan's Soresu allowed him to defeat Grievous, and hold off Anakin. So, I'm going to say his Soresu > Ataru.

And where's proof he would be as good as Anakin? He masters the form, he masters the form. It is stated that Obi-Wan's defensive is key against Anakin as well (ROTS novel, IIRC). Ataru is not offensive, so I doubt he would even be near Anakin's level. Dueling ability IS dueling ability. Anakin IS the better duelist, Ataru would not change that, no matter how many years he had to practice.



You are aware he switched to Soresu after Qui-Gon died, right? Because he wanted to protect - as he felt that was the reason Qui-Gon died. Meaning he had 10 years (32 BBY to 22 BBY) experience with Soresu in AOTC, unless you're trying to claim he started Soresu in AOTC, and mastered the form in three years. Which is definitely not the case.

Darth Kreiger
Originally posted by Advent
You are aware he switched to Soresu after Qui-Gon died, right? Because he wanted to protect - as he felt that was the reason Qui-Gon died. Meaning he had 10 years (32 BBY to 22 BBY) experience with Soresu in AOTC, unless you're trying to claim he started Soresu in AOTC, and mastered the form in three years. Which is definitely not the case.


Didn't Anakin start learning Shien/Djem So shortly before or after AOTC? And then he becomes a Master of it in 4 Years?

Advent
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Didn't Anakin start learning Shien/Djem So shortly before or after AOTC? And then he becomes a Master of it in 4 Years?

I'm not sure about the exact time, but he did use Ataru as a padawan; although that was before AOTC. What does that have to do with anything...?

Darth Kreiger
You made the point that it was unlikely for Obi-Wan to master Soresu in only 3-4 Years, while Anakin did that in roughly the same time with Shien/Djem So, or did I misread that?

Advent
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You made the point that it was unlikely for Obi-Wan to master Soresu in only 3-4 Years, while Anakin did that in roughly the same time with Shien/Djem So, or did I misread that?

You misread it apparently. I said that it "is not the case" because that's not what happened. It is stated in one of the novels (I'm fairly certain it's AOTC) that Obi-Wan switched to Soresu soon after Qui-Gon's death. The reason was because he felt Qui-Gon's death was his fault, as he thought he could not protect him, thus he switched to Soresu to protect.

So, basically, that's the point. Obi-Wan switched after Qui-Gon's death, he did not just pick up Soresu in the beginning of AOTC.

Quinlan_Vos

Quinlan_Vos
And this is getting off-topic. The point is TPM Obi-Wan > Anakin, period.

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