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Who else thinks this was the worst song Mos Def ever made? I mean I'm at a conflict of interest here because I like Mos Def's music but songs like these make me think he could get punched in the face as a person. I mean seriously, is it just me or is this straight up racist, elitist bullshit?


I mean seriously, all he does is list a white artist and then says "this black guy does it better!" I pay respect to the origins of rock and all that, I think Chuck Berry is cool but Mos Def is making it seem like all white rock artists do is imitate black rock artists.. it's just not true. The genre has evolved many times since it's humble beginning. Even older bands like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd are far from an imitation of Chuck Berry or Little Richard. I mean he even lists Bad Brains as oppose to white punk bands, as if that ONE punk band becomes ok just because they're black. For some reason this song really gets on my nerves.

Even when Ice Cube straight up says "Kill da white devilz" it doesn't bother me like this song does, at least Ice Cube sounds dope when he's being racist. Mos Def has the worst singing voice ever.. it's hard to listen to.

I know it's a little extreme to dedicate a whole thread to disliking one song, but it's a really bad song from a normally good artist. It makes me think twice about how supposedly smart this guy is.

the guy is pretty damn intelligent, i wouldn't second guess him, but what i think he was trying to point out is that rock got its original roots from black people, really though from Jazz and Blues which was started by black people, and then it just evovled from there. I dont think he is trying to be racist, its more of a conscious song, though i could see how it might come off as a "Black people are better than white people" thing.

It really sounds like he's talking about more than giving credit to rock's roots. He's also putting down white artists, and saying stuff like "don't steal black music." Also he mentions guys like Jimi Hendrix, John Coltrane, Bad Brains, etc who really had nothing to do with the creation of rock. But since they're black they get a mention.

well also look at this, not alot of people give credit to blacks for rock, not saying they started it all, but they certainly helped push it to where it is now ie. Jimi Hendix, James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard .ect. most of the first nominees for the rock hall of fame were black, and the thing is, most rock fans, or i find that most rock fans like hip-hop fans nowadays just dont know their musical roots, or where it came from. When you think rock a black face just dosent come up, i think the stereotype attributes rock to whites, so you have you people saying Elvis Presley was the king of Rock, which i firmly disagree with cuz i cant stand the man's music or his pretty boy image. Stuff like that.... the constant praising of Led Zepplin, and the others that were mentioned, not that they're bad or they're is anythig wrong with them, but people like to think they were the ones pushed it all. I know it sounds lke im generalising, but i could walk out into the street and ask a random modern day rock fan, and he might go on for days about AC/DC or Nirvana, or hell even Kiss, but i gurantee you he dosent know who the hell Nat King Cole is.

Like i said earlier i think its just a conscious song, kinda let you know that black people can, and did, and still do get down with Rock

He was blatantely claiming rock as "black music" and accusing white artists of stealing it.



Elvis Presley is a bit of a different situation. He literally played with the same exact style as guys like Chuck Berry and whatnot and ended up getting dubbed the king of rock and roll. That's a valid case of racism.

But he's not just sending a message about Elvis, he's putting down all white rock artists. It's pretty obvious:

aint got no SOUL
is rock and roll
sucks
is cool
i never play
but i'll rock out to

How can you deny that's what he's doing? look at the lyrics. tell me that's not the pattern.

If he wanted to acknowledge the roots of rock he could've done it just as successfully without putting down white artists. To me it seems like he just gives credit to anyone who's black for being black, not for doing anything special. Bad Brains?

He may be an intelligent man but on this issue he seems pretty ignorant.

"You may dig on the Rolling Stones
But they ain't come up with that style on they own "

Like i said earlier, the sterotype is that Rock and Roll is attributed and belongs to white people, when in fact Blacks were a very big part of that picture as well, Rock and Roll is the biggest and most famous genre of all time, and its an american genre at that, though now it has spread to all parts of the world, and those parts of the world most lilkey dont know thier musical roots, that it originated fomr Jazz and blues which came from black people, then evolved to where it is now.

I know excatly where your coming from, becuase if the posistions were reversed, i would be looking at it kinda funny too, but i dont think his intent was to diss a whole bunch of famous rock artist. All i can advise you to do is not listen to the song, and skip on to Know That. Not everybody hears the same thing, or get the same message from music, I can't tell you what his original intent was with the song, but i applaud him for it, because its songs like this that make you think and consider things, hence why i think it is a conscious song, to make you concious of things you didnt know about.

"You may dig on the Rolling Stones
But they ain't the first place the credit belongs"

On your point Mugen: I think the song could've been a conscious song if he had focused most of it on black peoples contribution to rock and roll and not half of it. There certainly are people that don't know their musical history. But to me at least, half the song seems like blatant ignorance to white peoples contributions to rock and roll.

It doesn't make me conscience of anything though, I already knew about all the artists he mentioned and I already knew about the black contribution to rock music. All it makes me conscience of is his ignorance of rock and apparent distaste for white rock artists.

And I do skip the song, I'd skip it whether I liked the lyrics or not based on his terrible singing alone. I just wanted to share my thoughts on this blemish in his career. I like the man's music, most of it at least, but I'm not going to make an exception for him just cause he's made other songs I like. I'd be condemning anyone for promoting this kind of thought..

Its not just you he is getting at, as a matter ofact i dont think you were his target as a means of try give a new understanding, most people dont have your knowlegde of rock, its the ones who dont hes getting at. but your right I disagree with how he came across, but i still think his objective was otherwise. I dig the mans singing though, have you heard The Boogie Man Song, you cant hate on his singing there. Dont let this song ruin it for you as a fan, he has great music, Black Star and Black On Both Sides, are brilliant.

I don't let it ruin his other music for me, I still think his verse on Theives In The Night is one of the best verses I've ever heard from any genre.

Mos Def is great. I like him a lot as an actor, but I haven't listened to much of his music outside of the chappelle show.

There's a great difference between suggesting that all the great black musicians get credit, and claiming that it's "black music".

I understand what he's getting at, but it seems like he wants them to be credited for everything. Sure, Led Zeppelin's style can clearly be traced back to blues roots, but that doesn't mean that they didn't do things for the first time. They took what existed and created something of their own. Why should previous musicians get credit for what Led Zeppelin did?

-AC

Exactly.

And I'd wager to guess that if Led Zeppelin were black they'd probably be getting credit in his song. Look at Hendrix. He played in roughly the same era, the style he played with was heavily influenced by earlier blues artists, yet he gets a shout out.

Plus, I have to say one more time: Bad Brains?

He and Kanye should get together for a pity party. I just keep hearing these lyrics in that "Handiman" (In Living Color) voice he used in "16 Blocks". It's a lot more amusing.

Originally posted by ElectricKoolAid
Exactly.

And I'd wager to guess that if Led Zeppelin were black they'd probably be getting credit in his song. Look at Hendrix. He played in roughly the same era, the style he played with was heavily influenced by earlier blues artists, yet he gets a shout out.

Plus, I have to say one more time: Bad Brains? ok i dont know who Bad Brains is?

but hold on, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Elvis Presley, Kenny G, and the Rolling Stones. He only dissed those artist, he wasnt dissing the entire white side of the industry. He said Elvis Presley about ten times in the song, and hes damn right, Elvis Presley is overrated. Kenny G was a good Jazz player, but there were blacks, before him that were doing the exact same thing before him, better than him. Limp Bizkit...... anyways Korn, not much i can say about, cuz i havent heard alot of their music. All these artists that he said, with the exception of Limp Bizkit....??? were in the spotlight, getting all the attention and everybody loved them and saw them as rock, turn on VH1 and see a special on Rockand you better believe you will see them in that documentary. He just attacked them, not all white rock artist, just the ones who everybody claimed was the shit and brought a new age to Rock, and the in case of KG...Jazz.

and Led Zepplin wasnt even in the song, but you say if Led Zepplin was black they would get a shout out, ok.... lets imagine if Jimi Hendrix was white, or Chuck Berry, or Louis Armstrong, or Fishbone, or James Brown, what if they were all white?

Originally posted by Mugen
ok i dont know who Bad Brains is?

but hold on, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Elvis Presley, Kenny G, and the Rolling Stones. He only dissed those artist, he wasnt dissing the entire white side of the industry. He said Elvis Presley about ten times in the song, and hes damn right, Elvis Presley is overrated. Kenny G was a good Jazz player, but there were blacks, before him that were doing the exact same thing before him, better than him. Limp Bizkit...... anyways Korn, not much i can say about, cuz i havent heard alot of their music. All these artists that he said, with the exception of Limp Bizkit....??? were in the spotlight, getting all the attention and everybody loved them and saw them as rock, turn on VH1 and see a special on Rockand you better believe you will see them in that documentary. He just attacked them, not all white rock artist, just the ones who everybody claimed was the shit and brought a new age to Rock, and the in case of KG...Jazz.

and Led Zepplin wasnt even in the song, but you say if Led Zepplin was black they would get a shout out, ok.... lets imagine if Jimi Hendrix was white, or Chuck Berry, or Louis Armstrong, or Fishbone, or James Brown, what if they were all white?

Bad Brains are one of the most influential bands in American music. They were pioneers of what is known as hardcore punk, mixed with other flavours, with African-American members.

Why are you getting so hung up on colour? How can we ever break down these boundaries in society if we're making comments about what "colour" pioneered what music? What the f*ck does it matter?

I think The Rolling Stones are good, Elvis is good despite being overrated, Kenny G can go to hell. Korn I don't mind, Limp Bizkit I dislike. I just don't get what Mos Def is trying to say, though it seems like he's saying that the black community should be aware of the music that was created. However, to him, I'd say this:

I'm caucasian and I know about the birth of what would become a mainstream root in music right back to the slavery days. If you don't know the roots and can't be bothered to seek them out before you go giving credit, then who's fault is that? Nobody else's but their own.

He shouldn't be attacking the bands, he should be attacking the idiots. It's not Mick Jaggar's fault.

-AC

Originally posted by Mugen
ok i dont know who Bad Brains is?Bad Brains is a punk band that would have no place in his song if they weren't black.

He didn't diss all white artists literally, but it can be deducted that he was referring to white artists in general. If he had kept it to "**** elvis, chuck berry is better" then I'd be cheering him on but he didn't do that, he went back and forth saying a negative thing about a white artists and a positive thing about a black artist, it's not hard to figure out the formula. Obviously he's not going to come right out and say "**** white rock artists," he's too "intellectual" for that and of course he's not going to name every single white artist. He doesn't have to. If he names enough white artists and enough black artists and compares the two types of artists enough it's quite easy to see where he's going.

As for Kenny G, what he does is plays elevator music. To even compare Kenny G to John Coltrane as if Kenny G is the white equivalent of John Coltrane is not only a complete and utter insult to all white jazz artists who stomp all over Kenny G, it's an insult to John Coltrane himself.

If they were white I doubt this song would even exist.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why should previous musicians get credit for what Led Zeppelin did?

Yes, why should Chester Burnett, Willie Dixon, Steve Marriott and Bert Jansch among others get credit...

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Yes, why should Chester Burnett, Willie Dixon, Steve Marriott and Bert Jansch among others get credit...

Yes, why should they get credit for what they didn't do?

Is there something you're having an internal battle with here?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, why should they get credit for what they didn't do?

Ok, so Steve Marriott shouldnt be credited for writing the vocal melody to "Whole Lotta Love"?

Willie Dixon shouldn't be credited for lyrics Led Zeppelin stole?

Bert Jansch shouldnt be credited for basicely writing the guitarparts in "Black Mountain Side"?

Howlin' Wolf shouldnt even be mentioned in the credits of "How Many More Times", basicely a slightly altered version of "How Many More Years", recorded almost two decades earlier?

The band Spirit shouldnt be mentioned in the credits of Stairway To Heaven?

Ok, then.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Ok, so Steve Marriott shouldnt be credited for writing the vocal melody to "Whole Lotta Love"?

Willie Dixon shouldn't be credited for lyrics Led Zeppelin stole?

Bert Jansch shouldnt be credited for basicely writing the guitarparts in "Black Mountain Side"?

Howlin' Wolf shouldnt even be mentioned in the credits of "How Many More Times", basicely a slightly altered version of "How Many More Years", recorded almost two decades earlier?

The band Spirit shouldnt be mentioned in the credits of Stairway To Heaven?

Ok, then.

Way to miss my point.

My point was: People act as if all preceding musicians should be given definite credit for everything done after. The fact is, Led Zeppelin were an innovative band all their own, and there's no reason that older musicians should get credit just because they're older.

If there are things they actually deserve credit for, fine. Not everything Zeppelin did was a result of them.

-AC

I misunderstood your question, sorry (and suffered a slight case of dyslexia on top of that). I agree with your point. Bands shouldnt have to credit all of their influences or preceeding artists who are remotely in their genre if nothing is close to being ripped off. Mos Def would have been more right then wrong if he'd mentioned Zep in the song, though (not saying he's right in deviding black and white music).

im not getting hung up on color. his question is about a song he perceives as racial (really more stereotypical) in regards to music. All im saying is that, i dont think his original objective, was to say blacks are better than whites. You only need to listen to the man's music, why would he come out and do something like that. And im not saying that other rock bands havent done unique things in their own right, or all bands need to give credit where credit is due, I thought that was his intention with the song. I dont really mind Led Zepplin or Korn or any of the bands mentioned, but my opinion dosent competely coincide with his. The only thing that bothers me is that certain music, mainly rock and rap, is attributed to certain races, and its more of a stereotypical thing then a racial thing. The stereotypical black person listens to rap, the stereotypical white person listens to rock.

Originally posted by Mugen
im not getting hung up on color. his question is about a song he perceives as racial (really more stereotypical) in regards to music. All im saying is that, i dont think his original objective, was to say blacks are better than whites. You only need to listen to the man's music, why would he come out and do something like that. And im not saying that other rock bands havent done unique things in their own right, or all bands need to give credit where credit is due, I thought that was his intention with the song. I dont really mind Led Zepplin or Korn or any of the bands mentioned, but my opinion dosent competely coincide with his. The only thing that bothers me is that certain music, mainly rock and rap, is attributed to certain races, and its more of a stereotypical thing then a racial thing. The stereotypical black person listens to rap, the stereotypical white person listens to rock.

I like Mos Def, I think he's excellent, but what he's saying is a bit off point.

That's not the bands' faults, though, the stereotypes. It's people.

-AC