Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Does this sentence make sense to any of you? Because I feel it could do with some discussion:

"I like them, I like their albums, but I'm not a fan.".

Are you only a fan when you own posters, shirts and tattoos?

Can you like a band AND their music, yet somehow not be a fan of them or their music? The answer is no, as there are obviously degrees to which someone can be a fan, passively or otherwise, but I'm curious to see if anyone shares that idea.

-AC

I think it was more Bierbommetje not putting his thoughts into words properly more than a difinitive statement. Dont you think starting a whole new thread to try and prove your point and basically to make another member look stupid is kinda petty.

I believe you can like a band and not be a fan of that band. I don't think owning posters, shirts etc. is required in order to consider yourself a fan. It's just that you at least have above average interest in the band, to the point where you are actually enthusiastic about a band, passionate. A fan is someone who follows the band at least passively.

That about covers my definition.

Good thread idea btw

Originally posted by tabby999
stop preying on who kids problems with articulating his thoughts from time to time. We know you don't agree with him, doesn't mean you have to make a thread pointing out his grammatical mistake, thats just petty.

The funny thing is, he's happy to discuss it and happy to hold such a view, so why am I getting stick? Surely he should get stick for having such a dumb view, or maybe not, because it's me he's using it against. Otherwise everyone would be all over him. Though he even said "By all means make the thread.".

What you could do, though, is answer the question. I'm truly sorry you got blasted out of the Radiohead thread, but I made this with the permission of said member, and you don't have to be here.

-AC

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
It's just that you at least have above average interest in the band, to the point where you are actually enthusiastic about a band, passionate. A fan is someone who follows the band at least passively.

That about covers my definition.

You said: "I like the band, I like their albums.". Then say what you said above, which applies to you.

So, by the definition you gave, you are a fan. You are a fan anyway. You're not indifferent to them, you don't dislike them, you specifically claim to like the band and their albums.

How can you claim you're not a fan? (You can't, but for comedy purposes, go on.).

-AC

i changed my post, not too significantly, but because i realised it was Bierbommetje who actually said that. Sorry people.

And while the comment itself isn't brilliant, i can sort of understand where hes going with it. I have Around The Fur and White Pony by Deftones, i like couple of songs, but as a whole i wouldn't call myself a fan at all, i find most of their music dull.

I'm just not actually enthousiastic or passionate about them, I don't have above average interest in them. I just have casual (average if you will) interest in them. Like many other bands. I just like them, nothing more. I don't follow them, look up news, visit the band's forum etc.

Originally posted by tabby999
i changed my post, not too significantly, but because i realised it was Bierbommetje who actually said that. Sorry people.

And while the comment itself isn't brilliant, i can sort of understand where hes going with it. I have Around The Fur and White Pony by Deftones, i like couple songs, but as a whole i wouldn't call myself a fan at all, i find most of their music dull.

You find most of their music dull, though.

He likes them, their band, their music, their albums. He's a fan isn't he? Yes. You can let the vendetta go.

-AC

Originally posted by tabby999
I think it was more Bierbommetje not putting his thoughts into words properly more than a difinitive statement. Dont you think starting a whole new thread to try and prove your point and basically to make another member look stupid is kinda petty.

Don't you think not agreeing on it being such an obviously retarded belief, simply because that would mean agreeing with me, is more petty?

Furthermore, regardless of who this thread was inspired by, I asked a question to all. You're the one making it about him.

-aC

Ok, sidequestion

If a definition says this (for "enthusiasm":

Great excitement for or interest in a subject or cause.

Do you think that means:

A: Great excitement for (stop) or interest in a subject or cause (basicely saying that being enthusiastic is the same as being interested).

Or

B: Great excitement for or great interest in a subject or cause, saying being enthusiastic is having GREAT interest (makes more sense to me, but who am I).

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You find most of their music dull, though.

He likes them, their band, their music, their albums. He's a fan isn't he? Yes. You can let the vendetta go.

-AC

He, by definition is a fan, yes. I never said he wasn't. You asked me for an answer to your question, i gave you mine and my example and all of a sudden its a vandetta. I never said i agreed with a "completly retarded belief just so i dont have to agree with you" infact you and i have been on the same side of an argument a few times. Your the one making it personal now, not me.

Tabby999, what's your definition of fan?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Ok, sidequestion

If a definition says this (for "enthusiasm":

Great excitement for or interest in a subject or cause.

Do you think that means:

A: Great excitement for (stop) or interest in a subject or cause (basicely saying that being enthusiastic is the same as being interested).

Or

B: Great excitement for or great interest in a subject or cause, saying being enthusiastic is having GREAT interest (makes more sense to me, but who am I).

Call me crazy, but I'll go with the one where you didn't just put words in to aid your point.

You know, the real one.

-AC

Originally posted by tabby999
He, by definition is a fan, yes. I never said he wasn't. You asked me for an answer to your question, i gave you mine and my example and all of a sudden its a vandetta. I never said i agreed with a "completly retarded belief just so i dont have to agree with you" infact you and i have been on the same side of an argument a few times. Your the one making it personal now, not me.

There we go then. So if you know that what he is saying is actually really stupid, and it is, then why have a go at me for making the thread? Why not debate him for saying it, or answer my question right away?

He doesn't have a problem with this thread existing at all, he's said so. Everyone has a problem except me and him.

-AC

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Tabby999, what's your definition of fan?

Someone who likes a bands music.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There we go then. So if you know that what he is saying is actually really stupid, and it is, then why have a go at me for making the thread? Why not debate him for saying it, or answer my question right away?

He doesn't have a problem with this thread existing at all, he's said so. Everyone has a problem except me and him.

-AC

I dont see the point in bringing it out of the Radiohead thread really, you were both doing fine in there (although i suppose this does stop the "off topic" issue in there)

He was a great leader and man.

Does this mean he was a great leader and a man?

No, it means he was a great leader AND a great man.

Originally posted by tabby999
Someone who likes a bands music.

Would you say liking a band's music makes you an ardent devotee, an enthusiast and such?

thanks for clearing that up

Originally posted by tabby999
thanks for clearing that up

?

What are you referring to?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
He was a great leader and man.

Does this mean he was a great leader and a man?

No, it means he was a great leader AND a great man.

According to...you? Yes. That's not what we're discussing, is it?

You like their music, their albums and them as a band. You are therefore a fan. End of story.



You're operating under the assumption that if you're not a raving devotee, you're not a fan. Let's look at what you said first:

"A fan is someone who follows the band at least passively.".

What's below passive? Indifference. You clearly said you really like their music, so you clearly are a fan.

How are you being so unintelligent?

-AC

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
He was a great leader and man.

Does this mean he was a great leader and a man?

No, it means he was a great leader AND a great man.


I was referring to that. Whats the dealio?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Would you say liking a band's music makes you an ardent devotee, an enthusiast and such?

But it depends, like i said, i have two Deftones cds and i wouldn't say i was a fan of them, but using "ardent devotee" or "enthusiast" avoid using the word "fan" is splitting hairs. Its like saying "I'm not a human i'm a Homosapien" (sp?)

If you like a bands music you are a fan. Id say its pretty simple

I agree with redalert.
You enjoy the music? Your a fan.
Not really that hard.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
According to...you? Yes. That's not what we're discussing, is it?

I was actually pointing out a language rule. Don't know if I used it correctly there, but I hope you are aware of the rule.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're operating under the assumption that if you're not a raving devotee, you're not a fan.

I'm actually using the definition from Dictionary.com.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let's look at what you said first:

"A fan is someone who follows the band at least passively.".

What's below passive? Indifference. You clearly said you really like their music, so you clearly are a fan.

How are you being so unintelligent?

-AC

I meant following the band, as in checking news, visiting forums etc.

As for some thoughts not directly related to the quote:

Where do you draw the line of who's a fan and who isn't? What about people that only like a band a little bit. Are they fans? What about people who just don't mind a band. They have chosen a side of the fence. They don't dislike the band, they aren't indifferent, they just don't mind the band. Fans by a very small degree, but therefore fans all the same? I guess you're a fan of Korn then?

How much of a band's music do you have to like in order to be a fan? Even my favorite bands have songs I'm not all that fond of. So what percentage of a band's music do you have to like (and to what degree) in order to be a fan?

Originally posted by tabby999
I was referring to that. Whats the dealio?

It was in reference to this:

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Ok, sidequestion

If a definition says this (for "enthusiasm":

Great excitement for or interest in a subject or cause.

Do you think that means:

A: Great excitement for (stop) or interest in a subject or cause (basicely saying that being enthusiastic is the same as being interested).

Or

B: Great excitement for or great interest in a subject or cause, saying being enthusiastic is having GREAT interest (makes more sense to me, but who am I).

What would you say is your answer?

Do you think having casual interest in something means you are enthusiastic for something? Do you think a prisoner who is interested in watching TV cause there's nothing better to do is enthusiastic for TV? Is he therefore a fan of television? Even though the moment he's got something better to do he won't care for television anymore?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Does this sentence make sense to any of you? Because I feel it could do with some discussion:

"I like them, I like their albums, but I'm not a fan.".

Are you only a fan when you own posters, shirts and tattoos?

Can you like a band AND their music, yet somehow not be a fan of them or their music? The answer is no, as there are obviously degrees to which someone can be a fan, passively or otherwise, but I'm curious to see if anyone shares that idea.

-AC


Hmm......Idiotic Debating Tactics

Even if you deny it - and especially if you don't - I'm going to tell AC that you meant that link for him to follow. Because you think he's an idiot. At debating. Tactically.

So, what do you guys think of the topic at hand?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Even if you deny it - and especially if you don't - I'm going to tell AC that you meant that link for him to follow. Because you think he's an idiot. At debating. Tactically.

But...I mean...but...please don't...please?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
So, what do you guys think of the topic at hand?

Varfan prague yay? Oh yeah, I think it's really cool, man. Really...you know...cool. Yeah.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But...I mean...but...please don't...please?

Sorry. Done, done, done, done, done...Oh, boy! You're gonna get it now! Hehehehe...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Varfan prague yay? Oh yeah, I think it's really cool, man. Really...you know...cool. Yeah.

Cool.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Varfan prague yay? Oh yeah, I think it's really cool, man. Really...you know...cool. Yeah.



Sorry. Done, done, done, done, done...Oh, boy! You're gonna get it now! Hehehehe...

But I don't want to get it now....

Also I think you can like a band and their music without being a fan...

Originally posted by tabby999
Someone who likes a bands music.


A lot of Arsenal fans might disagree with that...

Oh, shit! I don't want to watch. He's going to go to ass on your town...

I think...AC is a lovely, yet misunderstood young man who drinks far too much coffee and/or shoots way too much crystal meth.

For me, a fan is a passionate devotee to a band/singer often to the detriment of their subjectivity regarding the music produced. To illustrate: I think the Red Hot Chili Peppers make great tunes, but I'm not a Chili Peppers fan. At the same time, I would feel comfortable saying "I'm a fan of their music", so it's a bit...weird.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Oh, shit! I don't want to watch. He's going to go to ass on your town...

I think...AC is a lovely, yet misunderstood young man who drinks far too much coffee and/or shoots way too much crystal meth.

For me, a fan is a passionate devotee to a band/singer often to the detriment of their subjectivity regarding the music produced. To illustrate: I think the Red Hot Chili Peppers make great tunes, but I'm not a Chili Peppers fan. At the same time, I would feel comfortable saying "I'm a fan of their music", so it's a bit...weird.

Funniliy enough I was also thinking about the RHCP, they make good music, they are a good band, but I am just not a fan. A fan is jsut something more than someone that just enjoys the music.

Wow, looks like us retards are multiplying. Agreed on the Chili Peppers also.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I meant following the band, as in checking news, visiting forums etc.

That's not passive, though. That's actually going out of your way to do something because you like the band.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Where do you draw the line of who's a fan and who isn't? What about people that only like a band a little bit. Are they fans? What about people who just don't mind a band. They have chosen a side of the fence. They don't dislike the band, they aren't indifferent, they just don't mind the band. Fans by a very small degree, but therefore fans all the same? I guess you're a fan of Korn then?

If you like a band to the degree that you like Nirvana, that makes you a fan. You have said on numerous occassions that you like them, you like their music, you like their albums. Therefore you are a fan.

Secondly, yes. I am a fan of their Follow the Leader album.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
How much of a band's music do you have to like in order to be a fan? Even my favorite bands have songs I'm not all that fond of. So what percentage of a band's music do you have to like (and to what degree) in order to be a fan?

This is all you, though. You're the one sitting there getting massively and pointlessly in depth about this. Let's not look at degrees to which make general people fans, let's look at you.

You like the band, you like them, you like their albums (plural, also). This makes you an undeniable fan of Nirvana.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
What would you say is your answer?

Do you think having casual interest in something means you are enthusiastic for something? Do you think a prisoner who is interested in watching TV cause there's nothing better to do is enthusiastic for TV? Is he therefore a fan of television? Even though the moment he's got something better to do he won't care for television anymore?

Look how desperate you are. We're discussing music, and you asked him already. He said he believes a fan is someone who likes the band's music.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
To illustrate: I think the Red Hot Chili Peppers make great tunes, but I'm not a Chili Peppers fan. At the same time, I would feel comfortable saying "I'm a fan of their music", so it's a bit...weird.

What do you view as a Chili Peppers fan? Someone who buys their shirts, merch and everything else? Just because you're not one of those doesn't mean you're not a fan of the band at any more than a passive level.

I've seen you in the Chili Peppers thread, and you are very enthusiastic about that band and their albums.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Funniliy enough I was also thinking about the RHCP, they make good music, they are a good band, but I am just not a fan. A fan is jsut something more than someone that just enjoys the music.

It's not. You're attaching the word "Fan" with the mental image of someone who buys merchandise, music and everything else. You don't have to do all that to be a fan, all you have to do is like their music.

There are different degrees of what makes a fan.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Wow, looks like us retards are multiplying. Agreed on the Chili Peppers also.

If you want proof that he's at the very least, a passive fan of the Chili Peppers, go check the thread. He said he'd be comfortable calling himself a fan.

-AC

I'm not a retard. I am a very intelligent and handsome man.

Actually, I am attaching the word fan to this definition: "An ardent devotee; an enthusiast." ...and well...someone that jsut likes something is neither of that, so not a "fan" in my book.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually, I am attaching the word fan to this definition: "An ardent devotee; an enthusiast." ...and well...someone that jsut likes something is neither of that, so not a "fan" in my book.

So Bier really liking Nirvana's albums, as well as the band, doesn't make him a fan? That's incredibly stupid isn't it? Think about what you're saying, put aside the rabid need to philosophise everything ever, and think about that.

Krunk'd is enthusiastic about R.H.C.P, he's not some merch buying fanatic, he is a fan of their music.

As for Bier, he owns, as I remember, four of their albums. I'd consider him a fan of them.

-AC

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Oh yeah, I think it's really cool, man. Really...you know...cool. Yeah.



Fans keep you cool and that.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So Bier really liking Nirvana's albums, as well as the band, doesn't make him a fan? That's incredibly stupid isn't it? Think about what you're saying, put aside the rabid need to philosophise everything ever, and think about that.

Krunk'd is enthusiastic about R.H.C.P, he's not some merch buying fanatic, he is a fan of their music.

As for Bier, he owns, as I remember, four of their albums. I'd consider him a fan of them.

-AC

No, if Bier really likes Nirvana and Nirvana Albums he's a fan....if he just enjoys the music but with no particular need or whis to listen to it he isn't. Actually buying 4 Albums of any band would probably be considered fandom though, I agree with that.

I'm a fan of music.

I wouldn't say I was a fan.Of. Music, though.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Fans keep you cool and that.

Haha, I get it, cause it is a homonym...not bad, not bad.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I like Nirvana, period. I didn't buy any of their albums btw, my dad bought em. I've rarely listened to any Nirvana in the last year. Just the odd song or two (mostly when it came on random through a playlist). I doubt Id even buy any Nirvana if I didnt have the albums. I heard Nirvana and I liked them. My dad happened to have bought the albums, which he basicely gave to me, cause he thought they might interest me more then him. I listened to them, I like them, not a fan though.

EDIT: Didnt mean to have the bold parts in bold, cant be arsed to fix it.

Purchase isn't relevent, what is relevent is this:

"I like Nirvana, period.", "I listened to them, I like them, not a fan though.".

You are saying you like them, so therefore, you are a fan of the band. If you like their music, the band and/or anything else, you're a fan.

If Nirvana doesn't suit your taste, Chili Peppers? You own those albums. What, are you not a fan of any band you own albums by? Were they all "given" to you?

-AC

The point I was getting at is that either there's a line somewhere where someone becomes a fan (a non-factional line). Or it's black and white and even if you merely like a band for a microscopical bit, you're a fan. I don't live in a black and white world.

If you believe the line that seperates fans and non-fans is factual, I want to see some proof. If you can't prove it, then the line is subjective, and therefore open to interpretation. In that case I'm not wrong.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
The point I was getting at is that either there's a line somewhere where someone becomes a fan (a non-factional line). Or it's black and white and even if you merely like a band for a microscopical bit, you're a fan. I don't live in a black and white world.

You ARE being black and white, though. You can be like me. I'm a fan of A Korn album and the odd song besides that, I'm not an all encompassing fan of the band's music, but I am a fan to some degree, because I like their music to some degree. That's how it works.

"Fan" is being associated with someone who owns all albums, loves them to death and buys all the stuff that comes with it. That's not necessarily what a fan is, that's just one extreme, the other extreme is my position with Korn. I'm nowhere near as much of a fan, but I am still a fan to a degree. I don't go around the net checking up on them, but the fact that I have liked their music and in some cases, still do, makes me a fan to a degree.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
If you believe the line that seperates fans and non-fans is factual, I want to see some proof. If you can't prove it, then the line is subjective, and therefore open to interpretation. In that case I'm not wrong.

I've proven it time and time again, I can't help it if you'll keep ignoring it.

The point is, YOU are a fan of Nirvana and you are a fan of the Chili Peppers. How can you own four albums, like their music and still say "I'm not a fan."? That is ridiculous. You are a fan.

-AC

Too much hair splitting.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Too much hair splitting.

Yeah, by those who simply don't get that they're a fan if they like the music.

The irony is, the one who says he's not dealing in absolutes is the one who believes you're either a rabid fan or not a fan.

-AC

"I'm a fan of and they're the best band EVER"

^What's wrong with this statement?

(let's see if we share the same opinion)

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
"I'm a fan of and they're the best band EVER"

^What's wrong with this statement?

(let's see if we share the same opinion)

Nothing's "wrong" with that statement. You can't disprove someone subjectively believing there's a best band ever, musically, regardless of how stupid it may be. It's purely subjective.

The conduit connecting the two is the hypothetical person and Bier, both liking the band. To varying degrees, but both are fans.

One thinks...say, Nirvana, are the best band ever, the other "just" really likes the music and the band. They're both fans.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Now you're just being pathetically desperate.

To answer your question though, I'll use your position. You're not indifferent, you don't dislike them, right? So what would I call you? A fan. Why? Because you like them.

That's what I was looking for. You're saying: you either like a band or you don't, if you like a band, you're a fan. Among the people that have an opinion on a band, there's two groups: fans and people who dislike a band. I disagree with that point of view.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You aren't indifferent, you don't dislike them, but you hate them and like them? That's what your answers imply.

Are you indifferent to Nirvana?: No.

Do you dislike Nirvana?: No.

Do you hate Nirvana?: Yes.

Do you like Nirvana?: Yes.

Do you like their music/albums?: ?

Sorry about that, fixed it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The funny thing is, when I used the dictionary to prove my point, you debated it, saying it wasn't factual because anyone can make up a language. So you don't really have a leg to stand on.

I never said a dictionary was factual, so what are you on about?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That definition is fine, besides the "pop star" part. A fan is an ardent follower, but not JUST an ardent follower. That's just one degree.

Now that is you interpreting the definitions your way. I say the definition is "an ardent follower", period.

EDIT

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
That's what I was looking for. You're saying: you either like a band or you don't, if you like a band, you're a fan. Among the people that have an opinion on a band, there's two groups: fans and people who dislike a band. I disagree with that point of view.

Oh my. You asked me what someone would be if they were not indifferent, but didn't dislike a band. What other options are there?

I used you as an example, someone who doesn't dislike/hate, someone who isn't indifferent. So where do you fall? You LIKE them, indicating that there is an intended preference toward the positive side, making you a fan. I'm not saying you're the same as members of a fan club.

In one instance it is black and white; If you don't dislike them and you're not indifferent, then YOU like them, because you've SAID you do.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Sorry about that, fixed it.

Point proven.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I never said a dictionary was factual, so what are you on about?

I know you didn't. That's what I said.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I say the definition is "an ardent follower", period.

That's (the "ardent follower" part) A definition, not THE definition. It is entirely applicable and it is correct, that is what a fan CAN be, but it's not only what a fan is.

To wrap this up and finally reveal you as a confused person, I'll show something.

First you churn out this:

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I say the definition is "an ardent follower", period.

Then you say this:

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I believe just as much as you do that there are various degrees of fandom, from small to extreme.

You acknowledge that there are all different degrees of what makes a fan just that, yet you say that a fan is simply an "ardent follower"? Not all fans are ardent followers, like you.

How long are you going to continue this?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh my. You asked me what someone would be if they were not indifferent, but didn't dislike a band. What other options are there?

I used you as an example, someone who doesn't dislike/hate, someone who isn't indifferent. So where do you fall? You LIKE them, indicating that there is an intended preference toward the positive side, making you a fan. I'm not saying you're the same as members of a fan club.

In one instance it is black and white; If you don't dislike them and you're not indifferent, then YOU like them, because you've SAID you do.

There's more categories IMO. Not minding a band, liking a band a very little bit, but not enough to be an ardent devotee etc.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's (the "ardent follower" part) A definition, not THE definition. It is entirely applicable and it is correct, that is what a fan CAN be, but it's not only what a fan is.

To wrap this up and finally reveal you as a confused person, I'll show something.

First you churn out this:

Then you say this:

You acknowledge that there are all different degrees of what makes a fan just that, yet you say that a fan is simply an "ardent follower"? Not all fans are ardent followers, like you.

How long are you going to continue this?

The way I see it, it's not so much that an ardent follower IS a degree of fandom, but there are various degrees OF being an ardent follower. But they are all ardent followers, meaning having at least above average interest.

That's just my point of view. I can live with you thinking I'm a stupid and confused retard AKA disagreeing with me.

I'm off now, will be back tommorow if you continue the debate, which you will probably do.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
There's more categories IMO. Not minding a band, liking a band a very little bit, but not enough to be an ardent devotee etc.

You don't have to be an ardent devotee to be a fan, though, you've even agreed to this.

What's your problem?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
The way I see it, it's not so much that an ardent follower IS a degree of fandom, but there are various degrees OF being an ardent follower. But they are all ardent followers, meaning having at least above average interest.

Oh, give it a rest. You're like an eel, flip flopping all over the place.

You said this: "I believe just as much as you do that there are various degrees of fandom, from small to extreme."

Ardent following is an extreme degree of fandom. Are you actually struggling so bad that now you are debating yourself?

There are different degrees of fandom; from ardent following/extreme to passive liking/minute, which is you.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
That's just my point of view. I can live with you thinking I'm a stupid and confused retard AKA disagreeing with me.

It's not a matter of disagreeing, I've disagreed with many people on this site that I don't think are retards. I don't actually think you are a literal retard, but I won't lie, I'd probably get a more consistent argument from Helen Keller.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I'm off now, will be back tommorow if you continue the debate, which you will probably do.

It's not so much a debate. It's you pulling more b.s out and me squashing it.

-AC

ah fresh argument to add here (didn't read this last page to sorry if it's been said)

but what's the lowest level of a fan...

like what's the least amount of thing's you have to like about a band and their music...one song...two?
the way the band dress etc...? (thats not why i like bands...but whatever lol)

Originally posted by Flying High
ah fresh argument to add here (didn't read this last page to sorry if it's been said)

but what's the lowest level of a fan...

like what's the least amount of thing's you have to like about a band and their music...one song...two?
the way the band dress etc...? (thats not why i like bands...but whatever lol)

It's been addressed, not fresh in any sense. See previous pages.

-AC

thats why i apologised at first...i'll go read...i have time on my hands i guess

i personally dont own a single shirt or poster for any band or artist i like no matter to what degree i like their music because i find it a bit "young" for me...when i was a teenager i would buy stuff like that but now i find it pretty irrelevant

i dont even get to many gigs of my favourite bands because i live in possibly the worst city for live music in the whole of the UK

but i certainly dont think this makes me less of a fan than someone who gets all the extra merchandise

Originally posted by jaden101
i personally dont own a single shirt or poster for any band or artist i like no matter to what degree i like their music because i find it a bit "young" for me...when i was a teenager i would buy stuff like that but now i find it pretty irrelevant

i dont even get to many gigs of my favourite bands because i live in possibly the worst city for live music in the whole of the UK

but i certainly dont think this makes me less of a fan than someone who gets all the extra merchandise

Precisely. I own band shirts, but that's because I happen to like the shirts, not because I believe it makes me a bigger fan. Nor is someone a lesser fan for not owning any.

I don't think anybody but Bier can realistically agree with him, and the irony is, he can't agree with himself.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"I like them, I like their albums, but I'm not a fan.".
-AC

This is not possible by the words that are written above.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Now you're trying to define degrees of a degree? Desperation indeed. I've reduced your nonsensical argument to cinders.

I don't see "ardant follower" as a degree. An ardent follower is another word for fan. And theres different degrees of fandom, as you know. So there's different degrees of being an ardent follower, seeing as it's the same.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's you.

That's me... to you. I don't have above average interest in Nirvana, just average interest.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"I like them, I like their albums" counts as such.

If my level of liking was above average, then yes.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I don't see "ardant follower" as a degree. An ardent follower is another word for fan. And theres different degrees of fandom, as you know. So there's different degrees of being an ardent follower, seeing as it's the same.

Haha, look at this crap.

There are different degrees of fandom, from the minor to the major, correct? Correct. Ardent following an extreme degree of fandom, that's fact. If passive is slight interest, and ardent following is major interest...and they're both degrees of interest (fandom), then what does that say to you? The two are connected.

Ardent following is just the other end of the fandom scale, and the only reason you are denying this is because you realise how shameful you look.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
That's me... to you. I don't have above average interest in Nirvana, just average interest.

So you're an average fan, a passive fan. Precisely.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
If my level of liking was above average, then yes.

I'm not accusing you of being a fanclub member, I'm calling you a fan, be it passively or not. Because you are.

Everything you have said about the band suggests that you are a fan. You've tried to break it down into splitting hairs, I've stooped to your level and proved you wrong. You change your mind ten times over, I prove you a hypocrite.

What next? To think, your first post began with "I don't want to get into the debate.". Of course you did.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There are different degrees of fandom, from the minor to the major, correct? Correct. Ardent following an extreme degree of fandom, that's fact. If passive is slight interest, and ardent following is major interest...and they're both degrees of interest (fandom), then what does that say to you? The two are connected.

Ardent following is just the other end of the fandom scale, and the only reason you are denying this is because you realise how shameful you look.

Fan: an ardent admirer

What makes you say they didnt mean this as to be the definitive definition? A lot of the words in the dictionary that's from have multiple definitions behind the word. If fandom isn't just limited to being an ardent admirer, surely they would have put more definitions behind the word?

So what makes you say they meant is as a degree, instead of a definition?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
What makes you say they didnt mean this as to be the definitive definition? A lot of the words in the dictionary that's from have multiple definitions behind the word. If fandom isn't just limited to being an ardent admirer, surely they would have put more definitions behind the word?

How many times are you seriously going to contradict yourself? It's getting boring.

Again, you're wrong. I'm a fan of...say, Green Day. I'm not an ardent follower, I like their albums like you like Nirvana. They're good, I listen to them now and then. That's it.

I'm still a fan of the band, and anyone will tell you the same. You don't consider yourself a Nirvana fan for some warped reason, fine, it doesn't change the fact that you are one.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
So what makes you say they meant is as a degree, instead of a definition?

Because people prove it every single day, and have done since the dawn of music, probably.

You are doing it now. Your whole argument is stemming from you, just you. I can honestly say you are the only person I've met, stupid enough to propose such an argument.

Not everyone thinks like you do, you're assuming that you and the writers of the English dictionary are on the same page, and I find that hilarious.

-AC

To me:

Fan = Ardent admirer and vice versa

To you:

Ardent admirer = A degree of fandom

To me:

A degree of fandom = A degree of being an ardant admirer


You disagree with my view, I disagree with yours

I can agree we disagree

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
To me:

Fan = Ardent admirer and vice versa

To you:

Ardent admirer = A degree of fandom

To me:

A degree of fandom = A degree of being an ardant admirer


You disagree with my view, I disagree with yours

I can agree we disagree

Read that back and realise how pathetic you are being, and for what? So you escape the dreaded label of being a fan or Nirvana?

I am living proof that you are factually wrong. Why?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
To me:

Fan = Ardent admirer and vice versa

I'm a fan of many bands that I am not an ardent admirer of, as are millions upon millions of people. So fan can't logically mean definite ardent admirer can it? It's a degree of fandom, fact. Undeniable fact. You're desperate.

The more this goes on, the more I believe it's some kind of thing you've made up to start a debate.

-AC

My fan's massive and it ain't plastic.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What do you view as a Chili Peppers fan? Someone who buys their shirts, merch and everything else? Just because you're not one of those doesn't mean you're not a fan of the band at any more than a passive level.

A Chili Peppers fan would be someone who is an enthusiast about the band, not just the music. It also comes back to that question of subjectivity; a fan would probably be less descriminate about the quality of their music, whereas I found a lot of 'By The Way' to be junk. Also, I know very little about the band outside of the music that they make. A fan would know all their names, preferences, and other non-music related details surrounding the band.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've seen you in the Chili Peppers thread, and you are very enthusiastic about that band and their albums.

I love most of the music they make, so I'm enthusiastic about that, but not the band as a seperate entity.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you want proof that he's at the very least, a passive fan of the Chili Peppers, go check the thread. He said he'd be comfortable calling himself a fan.


...of their music. Therein lies the difference. Although, if adhering to a strict dictionary definition of the word, then it would hold greater pertinency and less opportunity for misrepresentation, if I described myself as simply 'liking their music'.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
A Chili Peppers fan would be someone who is an enthusiast about the band, not just the music. It also comes back to that question of subjectivity; a fan would probably be less descriminate about the quality of their music, whereas I found a lot of 'By The Way' to be junk. Also, I know very little about the band outside of the music that they make. A fan would know all their names, preferences, and other non-music related details surrounding the band.



I love most of the music they make, so I'm enthusiastic about that, but not the band as a seperate entity.



...of their music. Therein lies the difference. Although, if adhering to a strict dictionary definition of the word, then it would hold greater pertinency and less opportunity for misrepresentation, if I described myself as simply 'liking their music'.

That actually illustrates my point further, so in relation to that, I'll ask a question, as it's obvious you like their music and I assume I'm correct in saying so.

That question is this: Upon admitting you like their music, infact loving most of it, would you say you're a fan of their music?

If the answer is "Yes", then that simply proves my point. He likes Nirvana's music, therefore he is a fan of their music.

He's denying this.

-AC

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
"I'm a fan of and they're the best band EVER"

^What's wrong with this statement?

(let's see if we share the same opinion)

if you are like me, then you'd laugh and wonder if they really think they're the best band ever. Most people like this (irrelevant of whether its a band/game console/car/ etc), "Fanboys" as it were, dont look at it with rational, they look at it as "this band is the best band ever, theres no arguments otherwise, no other band are as good or will be as good. i will ignore all other rational opinions/thoughts."

Am i heading in the right direction?

Originally posted by tabby999
if you are like me, then you'd laugh and wonder if they really think they're the best band ever. Most people like this (irrelevant of whether its a band/game console/car/ etc), "Fanboys" as it were, dont look at it with rational, they look at it as "this band is the best band ever, theres no arguments otherwise, no other band are as good or will be as good. i will ignore all other rational opinions/thoughts."

Am i heading in the right direction?

This still doesn't change the fact that there's nothing factually incorrect about it, or factually correct.

It's subjective.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That actually illustrates my point further, so in relation to that, I'll ask a question, as it's obvious you like their music and I assume I'm correct in saying so.

That question is this: Upon admitting you like their music, infact loving most of it, would you say you're a fan of their music?

It's like this, dude: If I was telling someone about my musical tastes, I would say "I really like the Chili Peppers", as opposed to "I'm a Chilli Peppers fan". There's definitely a perceptible difference.

By the way, I'm not even aware of the other dude's point of view. I only care about me. You. And Bardock. Sometimes VVD, too.

We are family.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
It's like this, dude: If I was telling someone about my musical tastes, I would say "I really like the Chili Peppers", as opposed to "I'm a Chilli Peppers fan". There's definitely a perceptible difference.

By the way, I'm not even aware of the other dude's point of view. I only care about me. You. And Bardock. Sometimes VVD, too.

We are family.

Yes, in the actual lines, but in implication there isn't really. You said you love most of their music, do you then not consider yourself to be a fan of their music alone? Regardless of how you'd introduce yourself? Forget about the entity that make the music, just the music. You said yourself you'd not have a problem being called a fan of the music.

If I were to say "You're a fan of the Chili Peppers music.", I wouldn't be wrong, would I?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, in the actual lines, but in implication there isn't really. You said you love most of their music, do you then not consider yourself to be a fan of their music alone? Regardless of how you'd introduce yourself? Forget about the entity that make the music, just the music. You said yourself you'd not have a problem being called a fan of the music.

If I were to say "You're a fan of the Chili Peppers music.", I wouldn't be wrong, would I?

No, mother, you wouldn't be wrong.

Can I go out to play now?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
No, mother, you wouldn't be wrong.

Can I go out to play now?

Finish your tea first, and don't do that thing where you pile the peas to one side so it looks like less.

-AC

B*tch! I hate you.

I'm happy to see so much love between a mother and a daughter.....I think you should answer with Pearl Jam, will you Floo? Will you?

"Oh i, oh, I'm still alive"...That one?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
"Oh i, oh, I'm still alive"...That one?

I was more thinking about "Don't call me daughter"

Oh yeah, right...Ehm...this is a little awkward..."Don't call me daughter".

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Oh yeah, right...Ehm...this is a little awkward..."Don't call me daughter".

Why shouldn't I?

Because I'm a rabbit?

I'm a fan of mothers, daughters and rabbits.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I'm a fan of mothers, daughters and rabbits.

That's gross.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's gross.

Yeah, gross... all the way to the bank.

What kind of 'bank'?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
What kind of 'bank'?

I think I've just thought up a plot for a film.

Can I play the rabbit? I'd go 'method'. Promise.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Can I play the rabbit? I'd go 'method'. Promise.

I was thinking of a non-organic actor.

Well, I suppose non-organic is the wrong term. Non-living.

You can play a doctor at the bank though.

*edit* The doctor is just visiting the bank...to withdraw money.

He doesn't work there.

Phew.

Hahaha, because Krunk'd was mimicing a child talking to his mother, with me supposedly being the mother.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahaha, because Krunk'd was mimicing a child talking to his mother, with me supposedly being the mother.

-AC

Dude, I killed that joke already...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Dude, I killed that joke already...

He doesn't get the difference between killing a joke for comedy purposes, and continuing to use it after that has happened.

Hence why myself, you, and everyone else ever constantly get the urge to inflict physical humiliation upon him.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
He doesn't get the difference between killing a joke for comedy purposes, and continuing to use it after that has happened.

Hence why myself, you, and everyone else ever constantly get the urge to inflict physical humiliation upon him.

Nah, that's just the Vic. You-men.

-AC

The defintion of the word fan is "ardent admirer".

My dictionary (the same that never proved me wrong btw) says:

Fan = Ardent admirer (period)

Let's take another word such as "hate".

My dictionary reads:

Hate: To dislike (something) intensely (period)

A hater therefore is someone who dislikes something intensely. The definition of hater then reads.

Hater: someone who dislikes something intensely

Would you say that disliking something intensely is a degree of hatred? If so, what are the other degrees? Just disliking something?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
The defintion of the word fan is "ardent admirer".

My dictionary (the same that never proved me wrong btw) says:

Fan = Ardent admirer (period)

Yes, that is A definition of "Fan". It's not THE definition, just A definition. I've said this to you a million times.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Let's take another word such as "hate".

My dictionary reads:

Hate: To dislike (something) intensely (period)

A hater therefore is someone who dislikes something intensely. The definition of hater then reads.

Hater: someone who dislikes something intensely

Would you say that disliking something intensely is a degree of hatred? If so, what are the other degrees? Just disliking something?

Just like there are different degrees of fandom (From passive liking to ardent admiration) there are degrees of the opposite. There are bands I simply dislike a bit, there are bands I genuinely hate. Some I hate more than others.

This is all so irrelevant, even to the rest of the irrelevent parts. Purely because, when everything is brought down to simplicity, you are a fan of Nirvana.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, that is A definition of "Fan". It's not THE definition, just A definition. I've said this to you a million times.

Exactly. This is the point Ive been trying to make. People use different defintions. Our defintions differ.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Just like there are different degrees of fandom (From passive liking to ardent admiration) there are degrees of the opposite. There are bands I simply dislike a bit, there are bands I genuinely hate. Some I hate more than others.

Would you say disliking a band a bit is actually hating them to a very small degree?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Exactly. This is the point Ive been trying to make. People use different defintions. Our defintions differ.

No, no, no. That's not MY definition, that's fact.

Yes, you are right, that definition is correct, we agree. However, you believe that is the only definition of "Fan", and it factually isn't, as many people have proven throughout this thread.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Would you say disliking a band a bit is actually hating them to a very small degree?

No, dislike and hate are two ends of the same spectrum, but they're not the same thing. The same with like and love.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, you are right, that definition is correct, we agree. However, you believe that is the only definition of "Fan", and it factually isn't, as many people have proven throughout this thread.

I'm not denying there are more definitions to the word fan. I actually said that in my last post. It's just that that's the only definition I use. You use more, I use one. That's the difference between us.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, dislike and hate are two ends of the same spectrum, but they're not the same thing. The same with like and love.

I agree with the first sentence. The second one doesn't really make sense to me.

You say that liking something is being a fan. So the following sentence:

"The same with like and love" essentially means:

The same with being a fan and loving something. You're basicely saying that being a fan and loving something aren't the same thing. I disagree. If you love a band, you're a fan in my book.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I'm not denying there are more definitions to the word fan. I actually said that in my last post. It's just that that's the only definition I use. You use more, I use one. That's the difference between us.

So it's a case of sheer ignorance then? Case closed.

"I know it means more, but I'll just use the one and be an overly literal, anal pigeon holer.". Nice.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
The same with being a fan and loving something. You're basicely saying that being a fan and loving something aren't the same thing. I disagree. If you love a band, you're a fan in my book.

You are a fan if you love the band, their music, or both. You're also a fan if you like it. They're just different degrees of fandom.

But as we discovered above, it's ignorance.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So it's a case of sheer ignorance then? Case closed.

"I know it means more, but I'll just use the one and be an overly literal, anal pigeon holer.". Nice.

Ill ask you again: Why would a dictionary just put one definition behind the word fan, if there are actually more and it's appararently common knowledge that there are? There are many words in the dictionary which have more then one definition behind them, so why isn't that the case with the word "fan"?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You are a fan if you love the band, their music, or both. You're also a fan if you like it. They're just different degrees of fandom.

Let me backtrack a bit to the word "hate":

You said hate is a degree of dislike, correct? So that's saying that a hater and someone who simply dislikes a band aren't the same thing, correct? But couldnt you say that disliking a band is actually hating them at a very small degree?

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Ill ask you again: Why would a dictionary just put one definition behind the word fan, if there are actually more and it's appararently common knowledge that there are? There are many words in the dictionary which have more then one definition behind them, so why isn't that the case with the word "fan"?

I'll answer that with another question: Why does it matter if we both know that it's not the only definition?

We know that it's A definition, not THE. So this whole argument has been you being pointless.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Let me backtrack a bit to the word "hate":

You said hate is a degree of dislike, correct? So that's saying that a hater and someone who simply dislikes a band aren't the same thing, correct? But couldnt you say that disliking a band is actually hating them at a very small degree?

No, listen. Being a fan comes in many degrees, from the minor (Passive liking) to the major (Ardent following), and everything in between. This is called fandom, if you like. Right?

So whatever the opposite of fandom is, let's call it anti-fandom, has degrees also. Those ranging from minor (Passive disliking) to the major (Hating). It's the same, just opposite.

Though I honestly don't see how this is relevent to you not being a fan of Nirvana's music, because you are.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll answer that with another question: Why does it matter if we both know that it's not the only definition?

We know that it's A definition, not THE. So this whole argument has been you being pointless.

I was actually geniunly wondering and thought you might have known the answer. Guess not? Let me take a guess at the answer.

It's because the dictionary only uses one definition, much like I do. I guess the dictionary is rather ignorant?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, listen. Being a fan comes in many degrees, from the minor (Passive liking) to the major (Ardent following), and everything in between. This is called fandom, if you like. Right?

This is more like it. "This is called fandom, if you like". It's called fandom If I would like to call it that. I don't like calling the spectrum fandom. You do, and that's fine with me. That's the disagreement we have.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I was actually geniunly wondering and thought you might have known the answer. Guess not? Let me take a guess at the answer.

It's because the dictionary only uses one definition, much like I do. I guess the dictionary is rather ignorant?

Oh for crying out loud, man. I keep repeating myself.

Look, they posted one definition and it's a correct one, but it's not the only one. What did you expect? All the hair-splitting, anal technicality that you go into? Of course no. The point is, one definition in the dictionary or not; Why does that matter? Me and you both know that it's not the only one.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
This is more like it. "This is called fandom, if you like". It's called fandom If I would like to call it that. I don't like calling the spectrum fandom. You do, and that's fine with me. That's the disagreement we have.

No, it wasn't meant literally. "If you like" is just a phrase. I wasn't saying you have a say in it. It IS factually called fandom. We've been over this.

You are a fan of Nirvana's music by both of our definitions, but that's why you only use one, because you're ignorant.

-AC

so basically this has been a pointless debate over whether liking a band makes you a fan and whether liking a band does or doesn't make you a fan

i must be utterly missing the point

if a song was to come on the radio that i thought was reasonable but had no intentions of finding out who it was by does that make me a fan of a band i dont even know?

no

had i thought that the song was good an i endevoured to find the name of the band and other songs by them which i subesquently liked...am i a fan?

yes

had i heard the song and totally spunked my load all over my house and how masterfully good it was and then went out and bought every single item possible whether it was official or not and went to every gig by the band and got a court order preventing me from "stalking" them does that make me a fan

yes...but it also makes me a (as christopher moltisanti would say) "****in mental midget"

I won't deny that I've given this man and his "debate" more time than sanity should, but I found it too intriguing that someone could believe such a thing.

-AC

'eeeeesss not wuuuurrrffff it AC...eeeesss not wuuuurrrff it

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

As for Bier, he owns, as I remember, four of their albums. I'd consider him a fan of them.

-AC

Correct. Tis not possible to like one's albums, and a band's songs, and not consider oneself a fan, regardless of degree.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
This isn't my point. The dictionary uses one definition, yes? Same with me. There's more then one definition, but you really only need one. More are optional. Hence why the dictionary only cites one.

How do you figure you only need one when there are factually MANY degrees?

That's like saying there's many degrees of having the flu but you only need one diagnosis.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I agree with this definition (bar the famous person part). Fandom is basicely a group. It consists of fans. Fans of all degrees. I wouldn't call the whole positive side of the fence fandom, though.

Actually read that back.

Seriously. Sit there reading it to yourself until you understand what you just said.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How do you figure you only need one when there are factually MANY degrees?

That's like saying there's many degrees of having the flu but you only need one diagnosis.

I didn't say I only needed one degree. I said definition. They're not the same.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Actually read that back.

Seriously. Sit there reading it to yourself until you understand what you just said.

Fandom is a group consisting of all fans, of all degrees. It's just that what is a small fan to me isn't to you. You could say my group is smaller then yours.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
I didn't say I only needed one degree. I said definition. They're not the same.

That's what I meant; one definition. How do you figure you only need one definition of what a fan is, when the only definition you use describes the extreme? We both know the extreme is just a single part.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Fandom is a group consisting of all fans, of all degrees. It's just that what is a small fan to me isn't to you. You could say my group is smaller then yours.

No, I could say you're a fan of Nirvana's music and I would be factually correct, regardless of what you say.

-AC

I'm not exactly a fan of this thread...

Originally posted by who?-kid
I'm not exactly a fan of this thread...

Logically the thing to do would be avoid it all together, but I understand that intrigue got the better of you, and you read it anyway. In which case, you obviously decided you didn't like it.

So it begs the question: You posted here, why? Or should I be psychic and ask why you'll continue to post here?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Logically the thing to do would be avoid it all together, but I understand that intrigue got the better of you, and you read it anyway. In which case, you obviously decided you didn't like it.

So it begs the question: You posted here, why? Or should I be psychic and ask why you'll continue to post here?

-AC
Oh boy...

Here he goes again, I post one thing and he's all over me. In 48 hours he will probably complain that I post too much, and that's it all off topic and that I am after him... then I'll get tired of it and leave the discussion, and he'll declare himself the winner... typical.

- I haven't posted in here because it's a stupid, pointless thread.

- I don't have to justify myself to you why I post.

- But still, since when is it forbidden to post something in a thread you don't like ?

- And like you have never never posted something like "spite thread", or "stupid thread" or "this is pointless I'm not gonna contribute".

Pot and kettle AC.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Oh boy...

Here he goes again, I post one thing and he's all over me. In 48 hours he will probably complain that I post too much, and that's it all off topic and that I am after him... then I'll get tired of it and leave the discussion, and he'll declare himself the winner... typical.

- I haven't posted in here because it's a stupid, pointless thread.

- I don't have to justify myself to you why I post.

- But still, since when is it forbidden to post something in a thread you don't like ?

- And like you have never never posted something like "spite thread", or "stupid thread" or "this is pointless I'm not gonna contribute".

Pot and kettle AC.

Haha, I didn't actually think you'd stoop to such a level. I must admit, the speaking to imaginary people was marginally pathetic ("He's", "Him", "He'll"?), but the ultimate was this little ditty:

"I haven't posted in here because it's a stupid, pointless thread. ". Quite funny. "I'm not a fan of this thread, but still, better act as if I'm showing someone, talk to them, and continue posting.". I'm not denying I made the thread, you're denying you like it, think it's stupid and also pointless. So what's the point? Trolling me? Now that WOULD be pot/kettle syndrome.

If you are gonna post in this thread you don't like, at least contribute. In the event you do, I'll make another prediction: You'll somehow attempt to aid Bier.

-AC (Prof X, though.)

My Thought on the Original Post:

I like some artists music but I wouldn't call myself a Fan... no2

Fan = Fanatic
I am not Fanatic about some artists music..
I might like one or two of their songs, buy one of their albums, I don't think that classes myself as fanatic about them... so therefor I am not a fan of theirs.



This is just my opinion.. sweat


*runs away before AC sees it*

Originally posted by who?-kid
Oh boy...

Here he goes again, I post one thing and he's all over me. In 48 hours he will probably complain that I post too much, and that's it all off topic and that I am after him... then I'll get tired of it and leave the discussion, and he'll declare himself the winner... typical.

- I haven't posted in here because it's a stupid, pointless thread.

- I don't have to justify myself to you why I post.

- But still, since when is it forbidden to post something in a thread you don't like ?

- And like you have never never posted something like "spite thread", or "stupid thread" or "this is pointless I'm not gonna contribute".

Pot and kettle AC.

Oh dear...You're one of those 'not-too-bright' people, aren't you?

Originally posted by Piggle Humsy
My Thought on the Original Post:

I like some artists music but I wouldn't call myself a Fan... no2

Fan = Fanatic
I am not Fanatic about some artists music..
I might like one or two of their songs, buy one of their albums, I don't think that classes myself as fanatic about them... so therefor I am not a fan of theirs.



This is just my opinion.. sweat


*runs away before AC sees it*

You're a fan if you like their music and buy their album/s, it just doesn't make you a fanatic. Not too sure why this is hard to grasp for all two of you.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Haha, I didn't actually think you'd stoop to such a level. I must admit, the speaking to imaginary people was marginally pathetic ("He's", "Him", "He'll"?), but the ultimate was this little ditty:
Imaginary people ? I was clearly talking about you... You don't get things easy, do you ?

Trolling you ? Denying that I like this thread ?

Man you have serious problems. What's wrong with you ? Maybe you don't realize it, but KMC forums don't evolve around AC. Stop acting like you are the center of the universe.

Yawn.

That's an old one: predicting a debater is gonna post something. Wow...!! I'm so amazed. You never cease to amaze me.

And why would I help Bierbommetje ? He's doing a fine job without me, he's been kicking your ass all over the last pages.

I don't think that was the intention when you started this thread. So much for your prediction abilities...

Originally posted by who?-kid
Imaginary people ? I was clearly talking about you... You don't get things easy, do you ?

Apparantly you don't, as I asked who you were talking to. You were talking ABOUT me, to who? Imaginary friends, yourself? Who? Genuine question, as it seems you subconsciously think you have an audience, ironic for someone who accuses me of believing the forum revolves around me.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Man you have serious problems. What's wrong with you ? Maybe you don't realize it, but KMC forums don't evolve around AC. Stop acting like you are the center of the universe.

Yawn.

You went out of your way to posting in a thread you do not like, to a forum member you clearly don't have a good opinion of, not even about the topic at hand. KMC doesn't revolve around me, but you have done nothing but aim your posts at me since you got here in this thread. So I'll ask you one more time: Either contribute to my thread or leave.

Even the guy who inspired it doesn't have as much of a problem.

Originally posted by who?-kid
That's an old one: predicting a debater is gonna post something. Wow...!! I'm so amazed. You never cease to amaze me.

I'm not trying to be clever, I'm showing how predictable you are.

Originally posted by who?-kid
And why would I help Bierbommetje ? He's doing a fine job without me, he's been kicking your ass all over the last pages.

Ahh, the ol' "I'll go in the complete opposite direction to him." remark. Thought you were above that, thought wrong, it's cool. You proved my point anyway, I knew you'd simply come in and automatically go against me no matter what the debate, and you did. So that leaves one last thing:

Originally posted by who?-kid
I don't think that was the intention when you started this thread. So much for your prediction abilities...



Are you quite done? I'll ask you again politely, either contribute to this thread you hate/dislike/find stupid/find pointless, or leave it, please.

You're coming off as more petty than I could ever hope. Regardless of my opinion of Bier's opinions, at least he had the maturity to realise there was a broader debate to be had, and it wasn't just about him. What did you do? Come in and attack the thread, then give me an essay reply denying that you've ever posted here.

Post or leave, I'm asking you civilly. You don't like me, we get it. If the next reply hasn't got anything to do with my thread, I'll continue this with you in your PM box, and we'll see how eager you are to continue sans an audience.

-AC

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Oh dear...You're one of those 'not-too-bright' people, aren't you?
You mean the ones our mothers warned us of?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You mean the ones our mothers warned us of?

Don't you mean 'our mother', Brother Bardock?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Don't you mean 'our mother', Brother Bardock?

Hush, we mustn't tell.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Apparantly you don't, as I asked who you were talking to. You were talking ABOUT me, to who? Imaginary friends, yourself? Who? Genuine question, as it seems you subconsciously think you have an audience, ironic for someone who accuses me of believing the forum revolves around me.
Too stupid to reply, it really is...

Nothing but aim my posts at you... how many times have I posted here, two times or so ? Wow... The fact this is (probably) my third post is because you keep attacking me. A thing you obviously don't understand.

The guy who inspired it... that would be... let's think... you ! If you didn't decide to split hairs about the definition of a fan (Mike Patton rings a bell ?), this wasn't happening right now.

Yeah, by telling me I "will post something". Amazing. I agree, you are indeed not trying to be clever.

When did I deny that I posted here ? (very very confused)

Fine by me

Like I care. Geez.

Done.

Now that your personal debate against me has been taken to PMs, how about you contribute to the topic in this thread you dislike, find stupid and also pointless?

-AC

Holy shit. You won't believe what has happened today. It was as if the heavens themselves opened just for me. A bright ray of light shined down upon my retarded face and enlightened me with knowledge. I feel reborn.

I'm now totally seeing your point, AC. I've been a retard all along. Now I'm gonna do you a favor (it's the least I can do for wasting your time) by making an end to my life (by that I mean I'm gonna put the retard you've been having this "debate" with to an end). I'm not gonna commit suicide, I'm gonna let you have the honour (I've heard it's a good feeling). Consider it a finishing move that will slam me so hard into the ground my head will pop up on the south pole.

It's a list of very easy questions which simply require a "yes" or "no" as an answer. Don't worry, man, if you answer them truthfully, you will nail my coffin shut regarding this WHOLE thing.

Here we go. Remember, just a yes or no will do, no explanation or whatever needed.

Here we go:

1: Would you say the following about covers one of your many definitions of the word fan:

Fan: Someone who likes a band to any degree. This can be anything from passive liking to downright fanaticism. If you don't dislike a band and aren't indifferent towards a band, you are factually a fan, even if only by a very small degree.

?

2: Would you say you use more then one definition of the word fan?

3: Does a dictionary just contain definitions?

4: Do you think you're ignorant? (Ill just answer this for you: no)

5: Do you think I'm ignorant? (yes, haha, sorry for spoiling your fun there)


Just answer these in the following fashion:

1: Yes/No
2: Yes/No
3: Yes/No
4: Yes/No
5: Yes/No

Ill be having my last meal now.

Hmm, tasty bacon *smick smack*

I can't help but sense the feeling that you believe you've discovered something that discredits my debate, and are some how playing it down in the methods of an overly dramatic broadway actor (Yes, I've seen it done before.), but here we go:

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Here we go:

1: Would you say the following about covers one of your many definitions of the word fan:

Fan: Someone who likes a band to any degree. This can be anything from passive liking to downright fanaticism. If you don't dislike a band and aren't indifferent towards a band, you are factually a fan, even if only by a very small degree.

I can't give a straight answer due to the way you worded it. If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
2: Would you say you use more then one definition of the word fan?

Yes.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
3: Does a dictionary just contain definitions?

Relevent to this debate: Yes.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
4: Do you think you're ignorant? (Ill just answer this for you: no)

No.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
5: Do you think I'm ignorant? (yes, haha, sorry for spoiling your fun there)

No. I think you know I'm right and continue this out of some errant fear of looking like a quitter, since there is no realism or credibility to your claims.

-AC

Damn dude, you nailed my coffin shut. The debate is off. Case closed. I'm a Nirvana fan.

Now, PURELY out of INTEREST: How would you word the definition I posted? I know you're right, I just wish to aquire your exact knowledge.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Damn dude, you nailed my coffin shut. The debate is off. Case closed. I'm a Nirvana fan.

Now, PURELY out of INTEREST: How would you word the definition I posted? I know you're right, I just wish to equire your exact knowledge.

Original: "If you don't dislike a band and aren't indifferent towards a band, you are factually a fan, even if only by a very small degree.".

Mine: "If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan.".

I know how you do like technicalities, so I pointed out that it's all negative feelings, not just dislike. Either way, irrelevant now. There's honestly no need to be so overly dramatic, I am quite aware I was right all along, Bier. I didn't need confirmation.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Original: "If you don't dislike a band and aren't indifferent towards a band, you are factually a fan, even if only by a very small degree.".

Mine: "If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan.".

Thx, man.

Another question out of interest (if you don't mind ofcourse):

What other definitions of the word fan do you use? I still only use one, which is dumb. I want to use more.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Thx, man.

Another question out of interest (if you don't mind ofcourse):

What other definitions of the word fan do you use? I still only use one, which is dumb. I want to use more.

I spent pages explaining them to you.

If you don't get it now, something so simple as what a fan is, then you never will. Read the thread from back to front if it makes you happy.

-AC

You can be an admirer without being a fan. Being a fan is more than just liking the music, it's having an active interest in the band. It's being one of their followers. How you measure this is up to you. Maybe you know all their songs, maybe you've gone to several of their shows, or own all their albums, or have an extensive t-shirt collection..

A few years back when the Carolina Panthers faced off against the New England Patriots in the super bowl, I was an admirer of the Panthers. I wanted them to win, I liked them and thought they had a really good team. I was still a Giants fan, I was never a Panthers fan. I never followed the Panthers, never watched their games, knew their roster or anything.

Overall I think it's up to the individual to decide whether they're a "fan" or not, since really they're the only ones who are qualified to speak on their interest in the band/team/whatever. To make a thread dedicated to forcing someone into admitting they're a fan of something they claim to not have any real interest in just screams "control freak."

Originally posted by ElectricKoolAid
You can be an admirer without being a fan. Being a fan is more than just liking the music, it's having an active interest in the band. It's being one of their followers. How you measure this is up to you. Maybe you know all their songs, maybe you've gone to several of their shows, or own all their albums, or have an extensive t-shirt collection..

Wrong, entirely.

If I like a band for years and then someone who's just discovered them buys all the shirts, posters, CDs and merch, I am no less of a fan simply because they decided to do that and I didn't. Totally illogical.

Originally posted by ElectricKoolAid
A few years back when the Carolina Panthers faced off against the New England Patriots in the super bowl, I was an admirer of the Panthers. I wanted them to win, I liked them and thought they had a really good team. I was still a Giants fan, I was never a Panthers fan. I never followed the Panthers, never watched their games, knew their roster or anything.

Then you like their team, being a fan of their team doesn't mean you support them over your "home" team or whatever. It doesn't mean you're a supporter of them.

I support Arsenal, but I'm a fan of Chelsea's team. That's how it works. I don't see why you and Bier are seperating all these terms to suit yourselves, it doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by ElectricKoolAid
Overall I think it's up to the individual to decide whether they're a "fan" or not, since really they're the only ones who are qualified to speak on their interest in the band/team/whatever. To make a thread dedicated to forcing someone into admitting they're a fan of something they claim to not have any real interest in just screams "control freak."

No, you're putting the cart before the horse. They have the authority to decide how much they like a band, but not what that means.

Bier can decide how much he likes Nirvana, and he has. He's decided he likes their albums and their music, that's up to him, but that means he is a fan of their music, fact.

He has no say in that area.

-AC

Ok, Im just gonna put it on paper:

The definition "ardent admirer" is already covered by the following definition:

"If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan."

An ardent admirer has positive feelings. There's no need to use the definition "Ardent admirer". Every single definition ever is covered by the quoted definition. That's the only definition you need. It covers everything.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Ok, Im just gonna put it on paper:

The definition "ardent admirer" is already covered by the following definition:

"If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan."

An ardent admirer has positive feelings. There's no need to use the definition "Ardent admirer". Every single definition ever is covered by the quoted definition. That's the only definition you need. It covers everything.

...and from what dumpster did you haul that logic?

Ardent means strong, passionate. Therefore it doesn't cover being a passive fan, or anything in between, such as you. It's simply a degree of fandom.

I'm not too sure what it is you're trying to get at now. You're looking for something, anything to say.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Ardent means strong, passionate. Therefore it doesn't cover being a passive fan, or anything in between.

I meant it the other way around.

"If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan."

The above definition includes ALL fans. So it includes ardent followers.

I didn't say it makes you less of a fan. I only named a couple examples of ways to "follow" a band. Liking them for years qualifies..

That's right, I like their team, I'm not a fan. I don't like them to a great enough degree to call myself a fan, nor do i follow the team closely enough. In my opinion, to call myself a fan of a team that I passively like would cheapen the term.

It's not just a matter of liking the music, if I hear a song on the radio that I like it doesn't make me a fan of the artist. It's how closely you follow the band that makes you a fan, or how much of an interest you have in them. Only the person in question can say "yes, i'm a fan" or "no, i'm not a fan" with any kind of validity.

Maybe you consider yourself a fan of any band who's music you like, that's fine. You can call yourself a fan of whatever you want. People might question this, since most people tend to associate "enthusiasm" with being a fan, but that's whatever. I've heard of people saying that others aren't a true fan of such and such, but i've honestly never encountered anyone who was illogical enough to suggest that even though someone doesn't even like Nirvana enough to say "yes, i'm a fan," they are indeed a fan because they gave their music some positive feedback! Fact!

Originally posted by ElectricKoolAid
You can call yourself a fan of whatever you want. People might question this, since most people tend to associate "enthusiasm" with being a fan, but that's whatever.

Oh...like an enthusiast?

Originally posted by ElectricKoolAid
That's right, I like their team, I'm not a fan. I don't like them to a great enough degree to call myself a fan, nor do i follow the team closely enough. In my opinion, to call myself a fan of a team that I passively like would cheapen the term.

It doesn't matter, you have a positive enough opinion of their team, roster and players, in one instance. You like them, therefore you are a fan. This doesn't mean you love them, follow them or anything. You're just a fan of the way they play, you like it.

Originally posted by ElectricKoolAid
It's not just a matter of liking the music, if I hear a song on the radio that I like it doesn't make me a fan of the artist. It's how closely you follow the band that makes you a fan, or how much of an interest you have in them. Only the person in question can say "yes, i'm a fan" or "no, i'm not a fan" with any kind of validity.

It is nothing to do with that. We are discussing music, so yes, it is about music. You consider someone a fan if they buy all the shirts, but what if they've only been into the music for about a week and like it? That would mean they are a fan of the music, and as a result, decide to purchase merchandise. It doesn't make them a greater fan of the music, it just makes them the kind of fan that buys merch.

We're still both fans. You are a fan if you like the music, regardless of the degree. If you hear a song on the radio that you like, then you're a fan of the song. If you hear an album you like, you're a fan of the album.

Krunk'd is a fan of the Chili Peppers music, but not necessarily the band themselves. You are being too erratic with the term "Fan". It's not up to the person. They can decide if they LIKE the term "Fan" or not, but the fact that they are, or are not, isn't up to them.

I might not like my birthname, but the fact is, it's my birthname.

Originally posted by ElectricKoolAid
Maybe you consider yourself a fan of any band who's music you like, that's fine. You can call yourself a fan of whatever you want. People might question this, since most people tend to associate "enthusiasm" with being a fan, but that's whatever. I've heard of people saying that others aren't a true fan of such and such, but i've honestly never encountered anyone who was illogical enough to suggest that even though someone doesn't even like Nirvana enough to say "yes, i'm a fan," they are indeed a fan because they gave their music some positive feedback! Fact!

The person in question owns their albums, likes their albums, likes THEM, and has admitted to it. He's a fan, that is a hard core, undeniable fact. It's been done and dusted and I'm not going over it with an additional person.

Secondly, you're wrong again. Your entire argument is based around the idea that a person decides what words are applicable to them despite their actions. If you stab a man to death, you can't say "I don't like the term 'Murderer', so I don't think I am one.". You are.

Just like the word "Fan". He can like it or dislike it, that's his choice, but he's still a fan.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Oh...like an enthusiast?

What he just said.

-AC

The way I see it, the definition "Ardent follower" is not actually a different definition then "If you don't have negative... a fan." It's actually part OF that definition.

"If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan."

This definition covers ALL the definitions of the word fan ever. Be it ardent follower, enthusiast, someone who likes something, fanatic, whatever. Every kind of fan is covered. There's really no need to use another definition then the one that covers it all.