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ok heres 1 thing. we dont exactly know how powerful anakin could become had he not sustained injuries but lets put it this way

he reaches his full potential and he gets into a fight with ragnos.

well guys give ur opinions not gonna say anything yet

Well lets consider something. NJO/DN/LOTF Luke had the exact same potential as Anakin, and became exactly what Anakin was supposed to become, and at the end of it all Anakin was the chosen one born from the force, you have someone even more powerful than a LOTF Luke, who would crush Ragnos.

so is full potential anakin stronger than njo luke? or r they at the same level

Full potential Anakin was supposed to be stronger than any force user in the history of the galaxy and would have had no equal. Luke is what Anakin should have become and as powerful as Luke does become, he would have not compared to the prophecy of his father.

aww man anakin pwns nihilus, bah who cares >.> anyways would anakin have far greater abilities than luke?

If Anakin ever hit his peak, Marka Ragnos would have been no match for him.

Luke became incredibly powerful by LOTF, but Anakin would have, apparently, surpassed that.

how would anakin look like anyways? like the old anakin spirit we saw in rotj?

In somewhere around the time of ESB, I thought Vader said Luke had equal or more potential than him, or so he belived. He even stated that a jedi with his traning shouldn't be so powerful...... But I don't know.....

Anakin would look like Anakin. Not that surprising. By ESB, safe to say he'd look like Old Man Ani from the unedited ROTJ.

well that guy kinda fits anakin as an old man at his full potential, wonder bout his outfit, maybe a bra and a g-string? JK JK

i think he would still wear his robes with the hood or cloak w/e

Anakin'd tear through him like wet paper.

And according to GL...Luke has Anakin's exact potential.

well would anakin tear thru luke? lol

No.

Again. if Anakin reached his potential, he would have been as invincible as the highlander. Luke is invincible by DN but Luke is not Anakin.

well full potential anakin is prob the same as luke at his full powersor prehaps he surpasses that level because GL himself says so that when anakin does he is the strongest force user who ever lived. that includes EU prob because its lucasarts who makes it Canon

Full Potential Anakin>Luke

Full potential Anakin= Luke, actually.

GL has said this, do people just not listen?

hm didnt see the part where gl said full potential anakin pwns full luke.so my guess is full potential anakin pwns any sith including nihilus, sidious with force storm, ragnos, sadow, exar kun right?

GL said Luke has the same potential as Anakin...meaning by now, Luke's become what Anakin should have

I've never heard that. Can you muster up a quote of Lucas saying that Lightsnake? Just out of curiosity.

Vanity Fair magazine and DVD commentary

Youre missing the point lightsnake. A full potential Anakin would still be more powerful than Luke because at full potential he is the chosen one and the greatest force user ever.

Except he's not because Luke has his same exact potential. And is his son

Except for the fact that ANAKIN is the chosen one.

Except for the fact that it doesn't matter considering Lucas said they have the same potential

Except that doesn't matter because same potential doesn't necessarily equate to same strength.

Unfortunately, it does. They have the same potential. Meaning they could be exactly as storng.
Luke reached his potential. Anakin never did

"could" is far from definite. Force potential is just that. The same POTENTIAL.

Yes, and Luke's hit his potential. By what he does, it's obvious. Full potential Anakin is exactly the same as full Luke

When did Luke hit his potential exactly? We'd be comparing a Full potential Anakin to perhaps a LOTF Luke, who might not have hit his potential yet.

Who might not? The guy said to have become what anakin could have?

So Luke by LOTF became what Anakin should have become by ROTJ?

What Anakin should have become period

Go to your library and rent/check out "the making of Revenge of the Sith". GL clearly states that Anakin could have been the most powerful Jedi to ever live. I honestly, never heard Luke being able to become as powerful as Anakin.

PS. By RotS alone, Anakin was stronger then all but about two jedi, and him vs mace is occasionaly debated. Luke potental was extremely high, but no where near that of Anakins. Anakin was perfection. Padme' wasn't. Luke inherited that, so logic alone should tell you that gradually, the skywalker family would get weaker and weaker, for they weren't mating with other Force-born people.

Vanity fair. DVD. Lucas says Anakin and Luke had the same perfection.

This ends the argument. I'm trusting Lucas.

Originally posted by Xepeyon
Luke potental was extremely high, but no where near that of Anakins. Anakin was perfection. Padme' wasn't. Luke inherited that, so logic alone should tell you that gradually, the skywalker family would get weaker and weaker, for they weren't mating with other Force-born people.

Wait, so Anakin got none of his own mothers traits? Or was Shmi perfection, too?

Anakin was created solely by the force. She had nothing to do with it, otherwise he be called The Perfect Being. She herself says; "I can't explain what happened".

So, she didn't give birth, he just appeared?

When a missle is shot out of a plane, did the plane create it? When a bullet is shot out of a gun, did the gun create the bullet?

No...

Horrible example though?

So, Anakin only gave his genetic material to Luke, because, he is the living embodiment of the force, and for some reason, the pregnant one doesn't count...

YOU'RE Not getting my POINT! Anakin had intercource, the Force didn't. Anakin shared his genes, the Force didn't. The Force created his life, But anakin mixed his genes. Why can't you understand that?

Originally posted by Xepeyon
YOU'RE Not getting my POINT! Anakin had intercource, the Force didn't. Anakin shared his genes, the Force didn't. The Force created his life, But anakin mixed his genes. Why can't you understand that?

You can't really use that logic in Star Wars, it goes against Science in so many instances - if Lucas stated it, then it must be so.

GL said that had Anakin survived Mustafar, he would have grown and become twice as strong as Sidious. Now is Marka Ragnos better than 2 * Sidious, I don't think so.

Or, y'know, Marka's not.

And Xepeyon: Lucas shoots you down

Whos this Marka Ragnos dude?

An ancient sith, said to be the most powerful of them....

I happen to believe that Adas would be more powerful.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yes, and Luke's hit his potential. By what he does, it's obvious. Full potential Anakin is exactly the same as full Luke

where did you get this info?

An interview with GL apparently....

wait wast anakin suppose to surpase luke? GL did say if he hadnt suffer injuries he would have become stronger than any other force user...

Up til that time. Luke wasn't even born when GL said he would become the most powerful. So, allow me to say SURPRISE!!!!

um GL said it AFTER he did ROTS which mean he wuld surpase luke and ever1 including DE sidious. and if GL said anakin would be the strongest and if ur trying to argue ur not argueing with me..

ur argueing with star wars creator George Lucas who has the power to overwrite anything else

No, YOU are... He said that Anakin would be the strongest, and that was during the PT, before Luke was born. Lucas has said IN INTERVIEWS that Luke became what Anakin WOULD have become if he got full potential. So no, you are arguing against Lucas.....


And you're arguing exactly like everyone did with Ragnos. They're argument was, "Ragnos was THE sith lord, which means he is above Sidious". But it was only in his time...

Originally posted by kamikz
No, YOU are... He said that Anakin would be the strongest, and that was during the PT, before Luke was born. Lucas has said IN INTERVIEWS that Luke became what Anakin WOULD have become if he got full potential. So no, you are arguing against Lucas.....


And you're arguing exactly like everyone did with Ragnos. They're argument was, "Ragnos was THE sith lord, which means he is above Sidious". But it was only in his time...

anakin would have become the strongest until the end? do u get it? no so ill explain, he would have killed sidious, killed luke and became what luke had become in NJO and he would have crushed the rebels and the yuuzhan vong wouldnt dare to go against the empire.

Also its u whos argueing with GL. he said the strongest force user OF ALL TIME, yes luke became what he was suppose to become but anakin is THE CHOSEN ONE not luke and would have learned much more than luke.

NJO luke and FULL anakin are equal in power BUT because anakin is in the darkside and rage is his strength he would use his hatred AND anger to crush any 1 who opposes him, he would have Crushed Marka Ragnos

Originally posted by kamikz
Up til that time. Luke wasn't even born when GL said he would become the most powerful. So, allow me to say SURPRISE!!!!

and GL said that already when luke came out in the OT what the hell are you talking about. clearly GL said he would be because he would have killed Luke, killed sidious .


having the same potential doesnt mean the same powers nor the strength

and read the first page of this thread please, 2 good debators are giving good arguements,

DE Sidious > Ragnos but isn't the normal Darth Sidious < Ragnos.

It doesn't matter what it is, the fact is that Ragnos was only the strongest of his time. He might be stronger than many afterwards, but saying that he is the strongest anytime is wrong...

Of course. In the Strongest Jedi/Sith thread, I ranked DE Sidious above him. Of course I am going to edit that list again and make Ragnos second. Yes, kamikz, perhaps a Sith in the future might be more powerful (though I doubt it). But he is very strong and I wouldn't be surprised if he was the strongest Sith of all time.

Anakin the strongest sith if he got full potential? Absolutley, undoubtedly.

If Anakin got full potential, he would have ended two to three times as powerful as Darth Sidious. Now is DE Sidious > or < 2* Darth Sids

Originally posted by ESB Vader
that still doesnt beat the fact anakin would surpass luke when GL himself said so, anakin is the chosen 1, he was suppose to become stronger than any1 else, GL said so and that includes luke.
anakin would have gone down a path learning more than sidious and luke could ever lean,

luke in NJO is in no way superior than Anakin,
even sidious himself was afriad of anakin knowing he would surpass everything and killing everything.

do u know what the term most powerful force user means? it means being stronger than ANY1, having same potential doesnt mean havign the same powers or strength, get over it,

and how would you know luke would pass anakin? u dont and u simply assume Luke is stronger in every way,

anakin is a dark side user, he could have mastered anything and surpassed everything DE sidious mastered because he had the most potential, luke had same potential but his power would not surpass anakin,
anakins power is unlimited, look at how fast he grew in power from episode 2-3, if he gone on he would have surpassed every1, killing all his enemies,

every year passes and his power DOUBLES, he can do things luke has never heard of. the force created anakin skywalker. and he can do things far beyond lukes powers.

u dont get it do u he could do things and just about everything if he reached his potential and he learns and masters powers on his own


What the hell. Do you have a problem with reading? Geroge Lucas has said that Luke was exactly what Anakin would have become, Luke was as powerful as Anakin. GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD. It contradicts what Lucas has said earlier, because Lucas can change his mind.....


No, WTF are you talking about? Nowhere does it say the chosen one was suppose to be the most powerful, nowhere. It said that he would bring balance to the force by destroying the sith, NOTHING else. The only fact that he is powerful is that he is concieved by midichlorians, it has nothing to do with him being the chosen one....


Oh so you wanna talk like that huh? Ok, Luke with 6 months of traning surpassed Anakin with 10 years of traning. Luke by Episode 6 could beat Vader, whereas Vader was now a jedi killing machine and had learnt a hell of a lot about the force and improved his swordsmanship. (Although his speed was not the same). In AOTC Anakin had practiced for 10 years, yet Luke with 6 months with not even a real trainer was better than him...


Anakin's power is not unlimited, stop spewing bullshit. Anakin has the same potential as Luke, fact. GL said Luke was what Anakin would have become, fact.
And if we're going by that, Luke had experience, knowledge and techniques which Anakin could never even hear of, like Luke's insta-killing abilities, how Luke with a sweep of his hand destroyed an entire army of droids, how he could remove himself from the force, make himself invisible for the naked eye and invisible in the force, how he could make illusions, how he reached whole new levels in the force, how Luke defeated 5 Slayers whereas one of them was to hard for the second best master in Luke's academy to defeat....

And Luke had already been taught in dark side techniques by a more experienced and powerful Sidious than the one Vader trained under....

Originally posted by kamikz
What the hell. Do you have a problem with reading?
GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD. It contradicts what Lucas has said earlier, because Lucas can change his mind.....


No, WTF are you talking about? Nowhere does it say the chosen one was suppose to be the most powerful, nowhere. It said that he would bring balance to the force by destroying the sith, NOTHING else. The only fact that he is powerful is that he is concieved by midichlorians, it has nothing to do with him being the chosen one....


Oh so you wanna talk like that huh? Ok, Luke with 6 months of traning surpassed Anakin with 10 years of traning. Luke by Episode 6 could beat Vader, whereas Vader was now a jedi killing machine and had learnt a hell of a lot about the force and improved his swordsmanship. (Although his speed was not the same). In AOTC Anakin had practiced for 10 years, yet Luke with 6 months with not even a real trainer was better than him...


Anakin's power is not unlimited, stop spewing bullshit. Anakin has the same potential as Luke, fact. GL said Luke was what Anakin would have become, fact.
And if we're going by that, Luke had experience, knowledge and techniques which Anakin could never even hear of, like Luke's insta-killing abilities, how Luke with a sweep of his hand destroyed an entire army of droids, how he could remove himself from the force, make himself invisible for the naked eye and invisible in the force, how he could make illusions, how he reached whole new levels in the force, how Luke defeated 5 Slayers whereas one of them was to hard for the second best master in Luke's academy to defeat....

And Luke had already been taught in dark side techniques by a more experienced and powerful Sidious than the one Vader trained under....

simple answers.
herr they are,
luke became what anakin suppose to become right?
that means anakin would have learnt anything and everything luke did thus using his powers to enhance it.

and duh anakin would have expereince by the time NJO arrived he would just be more experienced ur talking like he doesnt have any.

luke did what anakin could do they are equal.
BUT anakin uses rage and hatred thus making him far deadlier than luke,
anakin also wants power and wants total domnation, luke would be his match as he would be lukes match,

but because he is in the darkside it is possible he could replicate sidious force storms. and learn both lightside and dark side techniques.
thats like combining sidious and Luke

well forget some stuff up i said,
Geroge Lucas has said that Luke was exactly what Anakin would have become, Luke was as powerful as Anakin. thats what u said kam, and what is anakin gonna do? sit there allday long on his ass not learning anything? his power grows and lukes does not,

No, because being in the dark side doesn't automatically grant you victory. Luke uses techniques from the dark side, like lightning and so on, and Luke does not hesitate to kill people either when he needs to. Using hate does not grant you a victory, it could be better to stay calm instead.... (Like Anakin never can and Luke can indeed). But they are equal, so we don't need to argue this....

agreed then, well u r right bout the rage part, that is what cause vaders injuries.

o yes and green lightning is the lightside version of sith lightning not a dark side feat

It may be true that Luke did beat Vader in Episode 6, but I don't think so. Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke, I mean, that's his son! You can see it in Vader's eyes (or at least his helmet) that he only wanted Luke to be his apprentice, not see him dead. I doubt even if how good Luke is that he could beat Darth Vader with only 6 monthes of training. Thats ridiculous.

Saw it on his helmet???? It always has the same expression. Does that mean he didn't want to kill Obi-Wan, because his mask had that expression?


And both the script and the novelisation says that Luke defeated him, fair and square, and comics as well....

You know what I mean kamikz, Vader didn't want to kill his son. And Darth Vader is the same level as Dooku (slightly better or worse), so you're saying that Luke with only some monthes of training could beat a powerful lightsaber and force master. Dang, no wonder Luke is so bloody powerful.

Yeah, but Luke didn't want to kill his father either. If anyone held back, it was Luke, until his feelings took over that is. He still was superior to Vader even before that though. He could have finished him after he kicked him down the stairs....

Full potential Anakin is an unknown but it is thought that if he reached his full potential he would be the strongest individual who ever lived.

GL has remarked that Luke is as powerful as him.

Originally posted by kamikz
GL has remarked that Luke is as powerful as him.

proof? GL said that luke had the same potential as Anakin,
and anakin has alot more raw power than luke, even sidious knew that anakin would have killed him with no problem had he not sufferedinjuries
on mustafar.

and anakin as the mechanical vader already is strong enough, people underestimate him just because he has metal legs and only half of what he could have become.

that mecha Vader could crush an opponent instantly with force crush and i dont remember which game but he did lightning which appeard around its victim which technically has no defense, he cant do it like luke sidious or dooky does

is this marka ragnos alive or in his spirit mode in ja but either way anakin at full potential easly wins this

Originally posted by ESB Vader
proof? GL said that luke had the same potential as Anakin,
and anakin has alot more raw power than luke, even sidious knew that anakin would have killed him with no problem had he not sufferedinjuries
on mustafar.

and anakin as the mechanical vader already is strong enough, people underestimate him just because he has metal legs and only half of what he could have become.

that mecha Vader could crush an opponent instantly with force crush and i dont remember which game but he did lightning which appeard around its victim which technically has no defense, he cant do it like luke sidious or dooky does



GL said Luke is what Anakin WOULD HAVE BECOME. Is that so hard to understand? And how is potential and raw power different? If anyone had more raw power, it is Luke. Luke with 6 months or traning defeated Darth Vader, now if this is half of what Anakin would become, then he is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what Luke is by the NJO series. But GL has said they are equal, so that is how it is, stop arguing facts...

Anakin would clearly pawn Marka Ragnos and anyone else you could throw at him.

GL stated that Luke's potential=Anakin's potential, and by DN Luke has become what Anakin should have become, meaning most powerful force user ever.

Originally posted by kamikz
GL said Luke is what Anakin WOULD HAVE BECOME. Is that so hard to understand? And how is potential and raw power different? If anyone had more raw power, it is Luke. Luke with 6 months or traning defeated Darth Vader, now if this is half of what Anakin would become, then he is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what Luke is by the NJO series. But GL has said they are equal, so that is how it is, stop arguing facts...

He's asking for the actual quote, which I'd like to see, too.

sry to bump so that means njo luke is above anakin?

Originally posted by kamikz
GL said Luke is what Anakin WOULD HAVE BECOME. Is that so hard to understand? And how is potential and raw power different? If anyone had more raw power, it is Luke. Luke with 6 months or traning defeated Darth Vader, now if this is half of what Anakin would become, then he is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what Luke is by the NJO series. But GL has said they are equal, so that is how it is, stop arguing facts...

There is more to strength in the force than raw power.

Bump, I wish to see it as well.

Me too. Prove up Lightsnake. Prove up.

It's in a magazine, and I don't have a webcam. I think LS has it though, so if he wants to he can probably show it.


And I think just looking at Luke's progress describes that he is at least as strong as Vader.

Vader comments that he is probably as strong if not stronger than he once was.
Vader later says "someone so young SHOULD NOT BE so powerful".
Luke in 6 months got pretty close to Anakin with 13 years.
Luke got a whole different level of experience. He has faced Vong, which REQUIRED him to get a much better swordsmanship, and he even discovered new areas in the force, which were devistatingly powerful...

Not only did he grow faster, but he also evolved alot more than Anakin did. Anakin was said to become twice as powerful as Sidious (ROTS that is) if he did not lose his potential, and we have all agreed that NJO Luke would WTF pwn DE SIDIOUS! DE Sidious is easily around 150 or 200% as good as the normal, if not even more. If there would be no evidence that Luke and Anakin had the same potential, then it is safe to assume that Luke is stronger than Anakin. Anakin being the strongest is only said by GL during the PT, in which Luke was not yet born...


While we're at it, where is the quote from GL saying Anakin would become the most powerful again? (I have forgot where he said it, though I know it's around the PT time).

And if we think about it, Anakin lost half his arm to Dooku, while Luke only lost his hand. Shouldn't that give Luke more potential than Anakin? (Though we are arguing full potential)

The name of the topic and the subject of the topic ar eway off.

Marka has been so forgotten and replaced by "who's better? Luke or Anakin AT FULL POWER!!!?"

Infinity and ESB Vader bring it up NON STOP, it's pretty impossible to keep it back.

kamikz im listening to your opinions,

NJO luke became powerful as he went down the path of a jedi master.
anakin therefore we havnt seen yet, he is unknown but GL said they were somewhatequal as you told me kamikz, then it is possible that anakin could have done the things luke did.

i have no proof to this however.

but lets put it this way, i know kamikz you are getting a little bit annoyed.
since GL words said anakin = luke lets keep it that way, full anakin = njo luke

Lucas didn't state shit until I see that quote. Everyone throws it around, but where is the source? I've yet to see the actual quote, date & issue, or a scan.

Why do people keep claiming Luke = Anakin when we're just taking someone's word? Produce proof that Anakin's potential is equivalent to Luke's, or quite simply - it's not, and don't say it.

well still lucas said anakin would have been the most powerful force user who ever lived.

note the word "who ever lived" and that means SW from the beginning to the very end.

im kind of being ignorant, sigh people say this and i follow /slap me

so for marka vs anakin,

i would say anakin because at his peak he could have done things better than njo luke, maybe some power we havnt seen (my opinion)