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Thanks Britain for saving our asses. George Bush will try to take all the credit though, I'm sure.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Thanks Britain for saving our asses. George Bush will try to take all the credit though, I'm sure.

I heard about this on the radio this morning... scary stuff... i swear though, you ever wonder if the security guys just make this shit up to make themselves look good?

Originally posted by pr1983
I heard about this on the radio this morning... scary stuff... i swear though, you ever wonder if the security guys just make this shit up to make themselves look good?

You mean the bombers they found trying to blow up the planes at the Thames airport ?

Originally posted by grey fox
You mean the bombers they found trying to blow up the planes at the Thames airport ?

Yeah, the flights heading to the usa...

Originally posted by grey fox
You mean the bombers they found trying to blow up the planes at the Thames airport ?

Yeah, supposedly they may have been trying to copy cat some sort of attack that was also thwarted years ago by some other terrorist group, I think in the 80s, not sure. But yeah, the plan was thwarted thanks to the British Airport security.

Ahhh , ok I just saw it on the news and they didn't specify where the planes were going.

Originally posted by grey fox
Ahhh , ok I just saw it on the news and they didn't specify where the planes were going.

Crazy shit tho... apparently they were going to blow the planes up in midair...

I think it should be made clear that this was not a random stop by airport security.

This was a targetted operation by anti-terrorist police that has broken up the planned terrorist attack shortly befiore it was going to happen. It follows a long investigation and the investigation is expected to go on for some time. The investigation is said to have a 'global dimension'.

It is currently chaos at Heathrow airport because a very large amount of flights are being cancelled.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I think it should be made clear that this was not a random stop by airport security.

This was a targetted operation by anti-terrorist police that has broken up the planned terrorist attack shortly befiore it was going to happen. It follows a long investigation and the investigation is expected to go on for some time. The investigation is said to have a 'global dimension'.

It is currently chaos at Heathrow airport because a very large amount of flights are being cancelled.

Flights here are in disarray too... alot of our flights go through heathrow, so they're being delayed too... its mayhem...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I think it should be made clear that this was not a random stop by airport security.

This was a targetted operation by anti-terrorist police that has broken up the planned terrorist attack shortly befiore it was going to happen. It follows a long investigation and the investigation is expected to go on for some time. The investigation is said to have a 'global dimension'.

It is currently chaos at Heathrow airport because a very large amount of flights are being cancelled.
Okay, is it too late to change the name of this thread?

I'll do it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'll do it.

Thanks.

I heard about the issue on the radio.. and didn't get the beginning, just the part about flights being cancelled and so.. I was actually scared that there was some attack.. again.

So who is the USA attacking next?

Not a very helpful comment, Clovie. An attempt to kill more people than died on 9/11 appears to have been thwarted; I do not think it is appropriate to use that as yet another excuse to attack the US.

I'm never helpful, don't you know by now?

I wanna know who's suspected to have been organising it.

All I know is that I am so glad they were caught, and it's scary to think what could have happened. I also hope that there are no other acts in progress right now, seems there won't be.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
All I know is that I am so glad they were caught, and it's scary to think what could have happened. I also hope that there are no other acts in progress right now, seems there won't be.


What could have happened? ...wouldn't even surpass 10000 deaths...basically nothing. Well, the planes are expensive I guess....


Edited the number of possible victims.

Originally posted by Clovie
I'm never helpful, don't you know by now?

I wanna know who's suspected to have been organising it.

I think the news here showed a Great British report saying that it's Al Qaeda.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
I think the news here showed a Great British report saying that it's Al Qaeda.
Who else would it have been? Siberian extremists? African Savannah Warriors?

Originally posted by Bardock42
What could have happened? ...wouldn't even surpass 1000 deaths...basically nothing. Well, the planes are expensive I guess....

Well, from what I'm hearing, this could have only been one of at least ten planes. Plus they are till investigating, so who really knows.

Originally posted by botankus
Who else would it have been? Siberian extremists? African Savannah Warriors?

Calm down, I was just answering Clovie's question. Also, there are copy cat cells that have nothing to do with Al-Qaeda that do exist.

Yeah, very classy, Bardock... seriously, please don't bring around that sort of atittude in here.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Well, from what I'm hearing, this could have only been one of at least ten planes. Plus they are till investigating, so who really knows. Well, I read more then 20, so I'd say probably around 6000 people if they had gone through with it...still, it's not that scary...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yeah, very classy, Bardock... seriously, please don't bring around that sort of atittude in here.

Why not? Because it is not the attitude you have towards it?

Actually, what would have been the largest terrorist event ever is that scary and it is pretty pathetic of you to make light of it, bardock.

Keep your attempts at amused detachment elsewhere. This is a serious thread and should be kept as such.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Actually, what would have been the largest terrorist event ever is that scary and it is pretty pathetic of you to make light of it, bardock.

Keep your attempts at amused detachment elsewhere. This is a serious thread and should be kept as such.

I am serious and that this would have been the largest terrorist attack ever just shows how very hyped the fear of terrorists attack is.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why not? Because it is not the attitude you have towards it?
I supposed everybody could post here saying f*ck gays, america deserved 9/11, christians wear blinders, pro-abortion activists should be decapitated, etc...

That would really make it a great forum with about 100 whob's (BTW, it doesn't just have to be for one "side" running around.

Well, if you want to seriously say the prospect of thousands of people being murdered in one instance is hyped and not scary that really only further exposes how feeble you are.

Keep this thread to a discussion about what is going on. Keep your intellectual pretensions elsewhere.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I read more then 20, so I'd say probably around 6000 people if they had gone through with it...still, it's not that scary...

Well, I'm not here to argue what justifies 'scary', but to attack flights with not only Americans, British, etc. it's an attack against the world, that kinda freaks me out. I'm not like crying and calling my mom, curling in the fetal position . . . it's just scary to think about is all. And if it's not for you, then hey, right on, good for you.

Originally posted by botankus
I supposed everybody could post here saying f*ck gays, america deserved 9/11, christians wear blinders, pro-abortion activists should be decapitated, etc...

That would really make it a great forum with about 100 whob's (BTW, it doesn't just have to be for one "side" running around.

What are you trying to say?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, if you want to seriously say the prospect of thousands of people being murdered in one instance is hyped and not scary that really only further exposes how feeble you are.

Keep this thread to a discussion about what is going on. Keep your intellectual pretensions elsewhere.

This is a thread about this latest terrorist attack, I would say the amount of fear of it as well as how it generally fits with terrrorism are part of this thread. I understand you don't like to hear it, but frankly, that is your problem, I participate in this thread in a serious and on-topic manner. Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Well, I'm not here to argue what justifies 'scary', but to attack flights with not only Americans, British, etc. it's an attack against the world, that kinda freaks me out. I'm not like crying and calling my mom, curling in the fetal position . . . it's just scary to think about is all. And if it's not for you, then hey, right on, good for you.

It's an attack against the first world you mean?

Well, I definitely won't fly in planes now. Planes are bad.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Well, I definitely won't fly in planes now. Planes are bad.

Still less dangerous than cars, trains, bicycles, turtles, etc.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What are you trying to say?



This is a thread about this latest terrorist attack, I would say the amount of fear of it as well as how it generally fits with terrrorism are part of this thread. I understand you don't like to hear it, but frankly, that is your problem, I participate in this thread in a serious and on-topic manner.

It's an attack against the first world you mean?

Hey man, if you support the ideas behind these attacks, just say it.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Hey man, if you support the ideas behind these attacks, just say it.

Is this the good old "You are either with US or you are with the terrorists" mentality?

I don't support the ideas behind these attacks, I just think they are blown out of proportion for propaganda issues.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Is this the good old "You are either with US or you are with the terrorists" mentality?

I don't support the ideas behind these attacks, I just think they are blown out of proportion for propaganda issues.

I could care less if you are 'for the US', whatever that means. As far as propaganda goes, take the news as you will. All I'm saying is that it's scary to think that this almost happened. And who knows, it may happen again in the next few months, who's to say? I think you are blowing this out of proportion.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't support the ideas behind these attacks, I just think they are blown out of proportion for propaganda issues.

i have to agree, although with such a hot button issue you might well avoid all the preceding browbeating and finger wagging by just getting right to the point.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
I could care less if you are 'for the US', whatever that means. As far as propaganda goes, take the news as you will. All I'm saying is that it's scary to think that this almost happened. And who knows, it may happen again in the next few months, who's to say? I think you are blowing this out of proportion.
Well, maybe scary to some extend, but the threat to each individual human is still minimal...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, maybe scary to some extend, but the threat to each individual human is still minimal...

I'll agree with that.

I agree with the propoganda part of it, and I'm shocked that it's actually gotten that much attention. After all, it's supposedly "good news," and good news means low ratings to justify that advertising dollar figure. I figured the story about Maurice Clarett getting maced after holding up somebody at gunpoint would get more attention.

Originally posted by botankus
I agree with the propoganda part of it, and I'm shocked that it's actually gotten that much attention. After all, it's supposedly "good news," and good news means low ratings to justify that advertising dollar figure. I figured the story about Maurice Clarett getting maced after holding up somebody at gunpoint would get more attention. What I also found weird (at least in the news I read about it) it wasn't really portrayed as good (that they were stopped) but as bad (that it could happen any time) .... there was also the extensive usage of the word mass-murder, I don't get what they are trying to achieve with that.

Originally posted by botankus
I agree with the propoganda part of it, and I'm shocked that it's actually gotten that much attention. After all, it's supposedly "good news," and good news means low ratings to justify that advertising dollar figure. I figured the story about Maurice Clarett getting maced after holding up somebody at gunpoint would get more attention.

I think the news is doing a fine job reporting this situation. Propoganda or not, it's all how you interpret it. As far as good news vs. bad news, I wouldn't agree that terrorists planning to crash some planes is good news, then again that's just my interpretation.

ok, someone help me out. they suggest that terrorists planned on using liquid explosives to blow up the planes in mid air, of coarse killing everyone on board. but if this is so then how would such an attack dwarf 9-11 with respects to death toll? the math just doesnt work out for me. i mean, i guess if they hijacked like 30 planes

Originally posted by PVS
ok, someone help me out. they suggest that terrorists planned on using liquid explosives to blow up the planes in mid air, of coarse killing everyone on board. but if this is so then how would such an attack dwarf 9-11 with respects to death toll? the math just doesnt work out for me. i mean, i guess if they hijacked like 30 planes

It would be 20 Planes with about 250 passengers ....5000 dead people (yeah, I totally estimated that....you don't get any information in the news....bastards"...that kinda beats 9/11 ... not on US soil though....maybe doesn't beat it afterall.

Bardock is right. The purpose of divulging this plot is not to create awareness of the foil, but rather to seed greater fear. By doing this 'our' governments can further erode civil liberties, and continue to wage their own terrorist war of attrition.

Even the blackest humor is still humor, but the suppression of that right is simply black.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
The purpose of divulging this plot is not to create awareness of the foil, but rather to seed greater fear. By doing this 'our' governments can further erode civil liberties, and continue to wage their own terrorist war of attrition.

Even the blackest humor is still humor, but the suppression of that right is simply black.



I agree. Much of the mass media has become government puppets in the past 30 years or so. There were some obviously doctored photos posted by the BBC of various bombings that were exposed several weeks ago. I don't trust anything I read in the newspaper or see on the television anymore.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Bardock is right. The purpose of divulging this plot is not to create awareness of the foil, but rather to seed greater fear. By doing this 'our' governments can further erode civil liberties, and continue to wage their own terrorist war of attrition.

Even the blackest humor is still humor, but the suppression of that right is simply black.

so you would endorse that they, for all intents and purposes, shut down the busiest airport in the world (heathrow) and then not tell anyone the reason for doing so

its the actions they had to take to stop the alleged attack that have caused the media frenzy...not the attacks themselves

imagine if the 9/11 plot was stopped...

there would hardly be a media frenzy over a handful of terrorists trying to hijack planes with knives

the world would be laughing at them saying "imagine trying to hijack planes with knives...they'd get their asses kicked" blah blah

the only thing people are saying is that the attempted attacks wilol be exploited for the sake of supporting an unrelated war which claims to be directly related. the irony is that even if successful, it would amount to a small fraction of the people who are killed in the name of "freedom". the implication being that either american/british lives are more valuable, or that deaths related to war are less significant.

i know there will be more chest-beating and finger wagging, but those very people will suddenly fall silent and vanish from the topic when this incident is exploited in the upcoming u.s. elections. it will be repeated and whored for the sake of electing conservatives who take credit for it, the same as a rooster takes credit for the sun rising.

Originally posted by jaden101
so you would endorse that they, for all intents and purposes, shut down the busiest airport in the world (heathrow) and then not tell anyone the reason for doing so

No, you're missing my point completely. It's the way the attempted attack is exploited to foster an atmosphere of fear. This, in turn, is used as a pretext for real restrictions on personal freedom, and also as a reason to continue the disgustingly ironic 'war on terror' by using more terror.

fight terror with terror?

It is confusing, isn't it? It's like countries saying they want to spread freedom by restricting it in other countries...confusing...*smiley face*

It just confuses me to no end, really.

Instead of using such events to send a message to Al Qaida saying "Look, we can foil your plans. We're not helpless.", the world shits itself and sends the message "Look how scared we are! You almost got us there, don't do it again because we might not get you next time.".

-AC

The important thing to keep in mind is that the US and UK deserved to have this (almost) happen, since we are no better than the supposed "terrorists."

Originally posted by Mindship
The important thing to keep in mind is that the US and UK deserved to have this (almost) happen, since we are no better than the supposed "terrorists."

Arguably/Definitely the most stupid comment I've read.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Arguably/Definitely the most stupid comment I've read.

-AC

beat me to it.

I was being sarcastic.
This is why I haven't quit my day job.

aaah, so then its strawman impersonating for the win? all too common.
let me try "YEAH!!!! NOW LETS FINISH THE JOB N' KILL ALL'EM AY-RABS. SEND EM' ALL BACK TO ALLAH!!! GIT-ER DONE!!!"

...no that was stupid too. maybe people should stop with the frikin puppet shows.

This just proves these guys won't quit. Mindship I get your point..."there is NO war on terrorism."

Also, as for the propaganda issue...that of course goes both ways. I'm sure the guys who plan this whole thing are probably saying "The infidels and their demonic evil technology have thwarted our Holy war...Allah protect us"

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
This just proves these guys won't quit. Mindship I get your point..."there is NO war on terrorism."

i think he was actually 'pulling a whob', if you catch my meaning

"pulling a who" ? Is this a new Lingo for the GDF.

US homeland Security has intruduced a ban on all liquids on US flights for fear that they might constitute liquid explosives disguised as drinks along with electronic devices that look like everyday objects.

Wow.

Originally posted by Clovie




So who is the USA attacking next?

Well, at least America attacks for Corporate profit.

Muslims kill for the sake of killing.

I think we should give credit to where credit is due. So major props to British police force. You guys are on the job.

God save your queen.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Well, at least America attacks for Corporate profit.

Muslims kill for the sake of killing. Well that's not quite true though, is it?

Originally posted by Clovie
I wanna know who's suspected to have been organising it.

reports say al-Qaeda, some of the suspects were Pakistani

I'm just glad they stopped it, a few of my family were due to fly from Gatwick today, they're still at the airport as far as I know (my aunt refused to be intimidated into not having her holiday - she'd tightfisted).

I think the anti-Bush propaganda finger pointers are throwing this more out of proportion than the media/government is

Originally posted by Syren
I'm just glad they stopped it, a few of my family were due to fly from Gatwick today, they're still at the airport as far as I know (my aunt refused to be intimidated into not having her holiday - she'd tightfisted).

Yeah, it's nice to know a plot like this has been foiled. I'm going to Europe next month (which is probably when the attacks were planned to take place) so it's nice to know there is a decreased risk of anything happening. I know the risk is always there, but, like with your aunt, terror threats are not going to stop me either.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well that's not quite true though, is it?


Sure seems that way sometimes

Well, how many times has Blair shot himself in the foot with his:

"Come Immigrants ! Come and live here ! We give you Housing, Food, Work and Unemployment Benefits"

and what do they do ? They find a breeding gound to plot bombs on planes.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
anti-Bush propaganda finger pointers

good thing we have pro-bush propaganda lovers to make it all fair and balanced.
but you're right, we should ignore that fact that bush has already begun to pat himself on the back and take the credit, with the help of law enforcement officers, of coarse.

Originally posted by PVS
good thing we have pro-bush propaganda lovers to make it all fair and balanced.
but you're right, we should ignore that fact that bush has already begun to pat himself on the back and take the credit, with the help of law enforcement officers, of coarse.

source?

"The recent arrests that our fellow citizens are now learning about are a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom, to hurt our nation,"

translation: this attempted attack is justification for the war in iraq.

"Obviously we still aren't completely safe, because there are people that still plot and people who want to harm us for what we believe in. It is a mistake to believe there is no threat to the United States of America."

translation: the terri'sts are attacking us because they hate freedom, nothing more. also, people who are against my foreign policy believe there is absolutely no threat. (as opposed to simply believing that he started a baseless and illegal war)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,207710,00.html

of coarse there is no transcript i can find as of yet, but i listened to the speech and he did in fact say that the world is a safer place since 9/11.

its all suggesting that his policy is to thank for that, and during the elections it will be implied that anyone who is not republican would have allowed the attacks to happen, vote republican or die of radiation burns, etc. it happened in '04 and it will happen now.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Quite agree, swaying this event to political differences just doesn't really add or contribute to anything. I'm glad this plot was thwarted and thankful it didn't escalate. But we're not gonna get anything until people just take that "republican vs liberal vs democrat" mumble jumble out of their brains.

yes, lets just pretend its not happening and will not continue to happen through to november.

Originally posted by GCG
Well, how many times has Blair shot himself in the foot with his:

"Come Immigrants ! Come and live here ! We give you Housing, Food, Work and Unemployment Benefits"

and what do they do ? They find a breeding gound to plot bombs on planes.
This synopsis sounds oddly familiar.

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
Until the democrats prove that they have better ideas than the republicans in regard to domestic issues and foreign policy, why should I think that they are any better than future republicans?

you shouldnt believe that they would have done a better job just as you shouldnt believe that they would have done a worse job. it would be a fool's assumption either way.

ok, then we agree. but your original point was that people like myself are twisting this into a bipartisan issue against the president, when really we are just pointing out that the president is and will be twisting this into a bipartisan issue.
and in this case i can confidently say that i can predict the future, and would wager all my money on it.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
No, you're missing my point completely. It's the way the attempted attack is exploited to foster an atmosphere of fear. This, in turn, is used as a pretext for real restrictions on personal freedom, and also as a reason to continue the disgustingly ironic 'war on terror' by using more terror.

but you miss the flip side...how else do you describe the incident to the public


a) you shut down the airport and tell no-one anything...creating confusion and anger...

b) you shut down the airport and tell them that the threat isn't as severe as it actually is then the actions of shutting down the airport seem totally out of proportion and designed to cause fear

c) you tell people the true nature of the threat and you are also accused of inciting fear

simply put...the government cant win

Originally posted by Morgoths_Wrath
let's hear it!

eat


i....just told you

Originally posted by PVS
i....just told you

*scrolls up*




















Originally posted by PVS
....just pointing out that the president is and will be twisting this into a bipartisan issue.

ahhh

doh

Originally posted by botankus
This synopsis sounds oddly familiar.

And its been updated. Potential Terrorist 'Public Enemies' descriptions have been updated from 'Pakistani + Beard + Rucksack' to 'Pakistani + Drink + Mobile-phone'

So everyone in the UK be alert!

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Bush-on-British-.mov

yeah, i know the linked site is ironic, but its the only place i could find for a straight download without registration requiremnents and all that shit.

my favorite line:
"i wanna thank uh....the government of tony blair"

Originally posted by PVS
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Bush-on-British-.mov

yeah, i know the linked site is ironic, but its the only place i could find for a straight download without registration requiremnents and all that shit.

my favorite line:
"i wanna thank uh....the government of tony blair"

hahaha...the scrolling headlines are brilliant...

florida wildlife officials say a man riding a personal watercraft was knocked unconcious by a sturgeon when it jumped out the water and hit him

Well, whatever anybody else says, I'm glad that George W. Bush is our president.

To be perfectly clear, I give him 0 % credit for the arrests in London, since it was British intelligence and British law enforcement (whether they had help from the U.S. or not) that foiled the plot.

However, its been his administration that has said "Enough is enough. We will no longer tolerate the blowing up of our embassy's, the sinking of our ships, the spreading of violence through terrorism. And if you help or support terrorism, we're gonna hand you your ass aswell."


I don't give a crap about the U.N. or the rest of the worlds feelings.

Things like the Canadians who would blow up builidings and kill members of parliament, the London bombings of last year, and now this airport plot just go to show that the Islamic radicals don't take sabbaticals.

They want to harm and destroy all of the western civilized democracy's of the world..... only some of us are more aware of it than others.

And the U.N.? Screw 'em, they aren't helping us.

I know what you're thinking:

"One shouldn't be able to be arrogant enough to scoff at world opinion."

Man, that is exactly how the Holocaust happened. The countries that COULD have acted didn't, because "world opinion" was not in favor of taking action against Nazi Germany. You are treading on thin ice with that argument. By the by, in its short history, the UN has done very little to attain or maintain peace in any international conflict. And they are made up of nations with agendas that tend towards the anti-semitic.

Israel has no friend in the UN.

France is obviously in cahoots with a bunch of the worst offenders in the Arab nations - it does billions of dollars each year in business dealings with them.

The Arab League runs the show at the UN, not the US. It has been that way for decades.

No one but America had the nerve to take a stand against the terrorist nations after 9/11 (we managed to talk a few countries into aiding us, but they never would have done it without our participation and leadership), and I would argue we still don't stand up to them enough. Saudi Arabia should not be considered our ally. Neither should most of the Middle Eastern countries, or France, Russia, Mexico, etc. But that's beside the point of this discussion.

The UN is made up of a bunch of guys who are best at wringing their hands when they're not sitting on them. They have been somewhat helpful in providing aid to African nations, but that's about it. And they don't even really do a good job of that, because the warlords tend to take all of the food and supplies that are intended for the people and keep them for themselves or sell them for profit.

And the UN continues to allow this, year after year. What did they do to help in the Sudan? Liberia? Mongolia? Serbia? Iraq? The UN is ineffectual at best; and as evidence has become more and more readily available, it looks that they are incredibly corrupt as well.

Todays news is just the latest in a long line events that show us one thing: the terrorists are in it to win it.

Are we?

Originally posted by PVS
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Bush-on-British-.mov

yeah, i know the linked site is ironic, but its the only place i could find for a straight download without registration requiremnents and all that shit.

my favorite line:
"i wanna thank uh....the government of tony blair"

My favourite is how he wanders around confused in the end and once his car arrives he finishes off with a nice "Heil Hitler"...

anyway, is crooks and liars like the first site you check every day when you go on the Internet?

Originally posted by Bardock42
My favourite is how he wanders around confused in the end and once his car arrives he finishes off with a nice "Heil Hitler"...

anyway, is crooks and liars like the first site you check every day when you go on the Internet?

they have the decency to offer up spam-free and registration-free video clips. so yes, when looking for video clips i check there first. i do check them out daily along with all the ridiculous shit i bookmarked, kmc being one

:edit: thank you sithsaber
truthiness shall always prevail.

Originally posted by PVS
they have the decency to offer up spam-free and registration-free video clips. so yes, when looking for video clips i check there first. i do check them out daily along with all the ridiculous shit i bookmarked, kmc being one

:edit: thank you sithsaber for proving my point.
truthiness shall always prevail.

Yeah...well..you are old, I guess you need bookmarks to remember what sites you dig....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah...well..you are old, I guess you need bookmarks to remember what sites you dig....

turn down that damn racket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by PVS
turn down that damn racket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look, I'm young, I don't know all those references you make to 50s TV shows when TV was still white, clean and un-homosexual...and the values Bush stands for were still in place.

you damn kids...with your civil rights and your makeout parties

Originally posted by jaden101
but you miss the flip side...how else do you describe the incident to the public


a) you shut down the airport and tell no-one anything...creating confusion and anger...

b) you shut down the airport and tell them that the threat isn't as severe as it actually is then the actions of shutting down the airport seem totally out of proportion and designed to cause fear

c) you tell people the true nature of the threat and you are also accused of inciting fear

simply put...the government cant win

I appreciate the difficulty in explaining the incident, but from the news conferences I have witnessed, and the media coverage, it just seems more of the same cultivation of fear. Rather than applauding the foiling of the plot, the response seems to be more focused on how terrible it would have been if the terrorists had succeeded. That way of thinking does not concord with the way I deal with difficult situations that have been overcome.

Sidenote: Lebanon is going to be a giant bloody hole in the ground by the time this news event has been bled dry...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I appreciate the difficulty in explaining the incident, but from the news conferences I have witnessed, and the media coverage, it just seems more of the same cultivation of fear. Rather than applauding the foiling of the plot, the response seems to be more focused on how terrible it would have been if the terrorists had succeeded. That way of thinking does not concord with the way I deal with difficult situations that have been overcome.

Sidenote: Lebanon is going to be a giant bloody hole in the ground by the time this news event has been bled dry...

Assuming that the situation has been "overcome", then I guess more people would be celebrating. I think the media is just reporting what they can find out at this point, and as I said before, I think they are doing a find job of it.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Well, whatever anybody else says, I'm glad that George W. Bush is our president.

To be perfectly clear, I give him 0 % credit for the arrests in London, since it was British intelligence and British law enforcement (whether they had help from the U.S. or not) that foiled the plot.

However, its been his administration that has said "Enough is enough. We will no longer tolerate the blowing up of our embassy's, the sinking of our ships, the spreading of violence through terrorism. And if you help or support terrorism, we're gonna hand you your ass aswell."


I don't give a crap about the U.N. or the rest of the worlds feelings.

Things like the Canadians who would blow up builidings and kill members of parliament, the London bombings of last year, and now this airport plot just go to show that the Islamic radicals don't take sabbaticals.

They want to harm and destroy all of the western civilized democracy's of the world..... only some of us are more aware of it than others.

And the U.N.? Screw 'em, they aren't helping us.

I know what you're thinking:

"One shouldn't be able to be arrogant enough to scoff at world opinion."

Man, that is exactly how the Holocaust happened. The countries that COULD have acted didn't, because "world opinion" was not in favor of taking action against Nazi Germany. You are treading on thin ice with that argument. By the by, in its short history, the UN has done very little to attain or maintain peace in any international conflict. And they are made up of nations with agendas that tend towards the anti-semitic.

Israel has no friend in the UN.

France is obviously in cahoots with a bunch of the worst offenders in the Arab nations - it does billions of dollars each year in business dealings with them.

The Arab League runs the show at the UN, not the US. It has been that way for decades.

No one but America had the nerve to take a stand against the terrorist nations after 9/11 (we managed to talk a few countries into aiding us, but they never would have done it without our participation and leadership), and I would argue we still don't stand up to them enough. Saudi Arabia should not be considered our ally. Neither should most of the Middle Eastern countries, or France, Russia, Mexico, etc. But that's beside the point of this discussion.

The UN is made up of a bunch of guys who are best at wringing their hands when they're not sitting on them. They have been somewhat helpful in providing aid to African nations, but that's about it. And they don't even really do a good job of that, because the warlords tend to take all of the food and supplies that are intended for the people and keep them for themselves or sell them for profit.

And the UN continues to allow this, year after year. What did they do to help in the Sudan? Liberia? Mongolia? Serbia? Iraq? The UN is ineffectual at best; and as evidence has become more and more readily available, it looks that they are incredibly corrupt as well.

Todays news is just the latest in a long line events that show us one thing: the terrorists are in it to win it.

Are we?

London's subways were bombed, the British police and intelligence had all the bombers in custody within weeks.

The World Trade Centre is destroyed, the people are still out there, and the American government went after the wrong country, for the wrong reasons at the time.

I'll stand out on a limb and say that the Bush admin simply saying: "Enough is enough", really shouldn't cut it. They should actually start making it happen, shouldn't they?

To add a closing point, you asked if we are in it to win it. We? I'm kind of tired of this "We". I'm not fighting a war, "my" government are. I might be the victim of one, an unjust one, one being poorly handled, and so might many more.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
London's subways were bombed, the British police and intelligence had all the bombers in custody within weeks.

The World Trade Centre is destroyed, the people are still out there, and the American government went after the wrong country, for the wrong reasons at the time.

I'll stand out on a limb and say that the Bush admin simply saying: "Enough is enough", really shouldn't cut it. They should actually start making it happen, shouldn't they?

To add a closing point, you asked if we are in it to win it. We? I'm kind of tired of this "We". I'm not fighting a war, "my" government are. I might be the victim of one, an unjust one, one being poorly handled, and so might many more.

-AC

I'm tired of the 'we' thing too. I do agree with some of what Sithsaber has stated, and I'm a pretty liberal. In fact, and this is just me, but I think democrats and republicans are both pretty right wing.

its a bit more than right wing I'm afraid

bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiisokDGbfA
kerry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6qPUkVWzKM

Yeah, skull and bones, Bush and Cheney, I am aware of that. Aside of them, I still think Democrats and Republicans are to far to the right.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Yeah, skull and bones, Bush and Cheney, I am aware of that. Aside of them, I still think Democrats and Republicans are to far to the right.

Because they aren't liberal enough or because they aren't socialist enough?

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Yeah, skull and bones, Bush and Cheney, I am aware of that. Aside of them, I still think Democrats and Republicans are to far to the right.

there is no real difference between both parties because both are controlled by the same elite.. its just fake choices they want you to make in order to keep the illusion of democracy going..

what we need are some decent politicians, honest people with love for humanity and they shouldn't be members of some secret or semi-secret society imo.. i mean Skull&Bones is one thing but you also get the Masons and what heavier..

wheres tony blair when u need him

Im listening about this right now.

The suspects accounts have been frozen, and their names released.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4782343.stm

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Im listening about this right now.

The suspects accounts have been frozen, and their names released.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4782343.stm

I'm not sure if I find this good....no...actually I find it wrong...yeah...it's wrong.

Originally posted by David Tsarion
there is no real difference between both parties because both are controlled by the same elite.. its just fake choices they want you to make in order to keep the illusion of democracy going..

what we need are some decent politicians, honest people with love for humanity and they shouldn't be members of some secret or semi-secret society imo.. i mean Skull&Bones is one thing but you also get the Masons and what heavier..

I agree with that. I think the US needs another pres like Jimmy Carter. I think he was the last of the great men as Presidents. The guy's business was peanut farming, not oil. I think the US needs a President who's business is not that of oil in order for real change to ensue.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Because they aren't liberal enough or because they aren't socialist enough?

Simply because they both don't have a solid plan to get away from oil dempendancy. Gore spouts about global warming and this and that, which is okay, but no one, as far as I've seen, except for my college professors from the early 1990's, actually have a real system of living off the grid, surviving without oil, etc. I know I may sound like a hippy, but I think a lot of what is going on with terrorism is due to our dependancy on oil. It may be just a small part of it, there is the whole religion thing, but I guess I'm saying they aren't liberal enough in their attempts to explore life outside of fossil fuels.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Simply because they both don't have a solid plan to get away from oil dempendancy. Gore spouts about global warming and this and that, which is okay, but no one, as far as I've seen, except for my college professors from the early 1990's, actually have a real system of living off the grid, surviving without oil, etc. I know I may sound like a hippy, but I think a lot of what is going on with terrorism is due to our dependancy on oil. It may be just a small part of it, there is the whole religion thing, but I guess I'm saying they aren't liberal enough in their attempts to explore life outside of fossil fuels.

Yeah, i agree, but well that doesn't make them right wing, you know?

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
I agree with that. I think the US needs another pres like Jimmy Carter. I think he was the last of the great men as Presidents. The guy's business was peanut farming, not oil. I think the US needs a President who's business is not that of oil in order for real change to ensue.

agreed, carter, kennedy, lincoln, washington, america had quiet a few decent presidents, but sadly enough since bush senior the same gang is in power.. sponsored by multinational companies and riddled with members of secret and semi secret societies in both parties and congress.. ye even the high ups in the military the police force and judges are mostly members of fraternities and secret societies..

the system has to change but it wont do so unless the people rise up.. and i dont mean violently but peacefully and and thats the main factor united..

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, i agree, but well that doesn't make them right wing, you know?

Well, what do you mean?

Originally posted by David Tsarion
agreed, carter, kennedy, lincoln, washington, america had quiet a few decent presidents, but sadly enough since bush senior the same gang is in power.. sponsored by multinational companies and riddled with members of secret and semi secret societies in both parties and congress.. ye even the high ups in the military the police force and judges are mostly members of fraternities and secret societies..

the system has to change but it wont do so unless the people rise up.. and i dont mean violently but peacefully and and thats the main factor united..

And that is exactly why I feel Democrats and Rebuplicans, or I should say, the elected officials thereof, are all too Right Wing.

And I must say, people ARE rising up. There are many people who are working in peaceful ways to explore and make more accesible means to non-oil based modes of transportation, chemical free ways to produce simple much needed supplies such as ropes, cloth, building materials . . . I think people are rising and have been for decades, they just aren't the 'mainstream' for now. For now.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Well, what do you mean?

Well no solid plan to do away with oil is not rightwing.

You can't say they are too right because they don't do anything to survive without oil.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You can't say they are too right because they don't do anything to survive without oil.

But I just did.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
But I just did.

Let me rephrase:

You can say they are too right because they don't do anything to survive without oil....but you would be WRONG

Originally posted by Bardock42
Let me rephrase:

You can say they are too right because they don't do anything to survive without oil....but you would be WRONG

And in a more blatant attempt . . . WHY???

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
And in a more blatant attempt . . . WHY???

Because Left is not a synonym for common sense and good ideas and right for ignorance and stupidity....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Because Left is not a synonym for common sense and good ideas and right for ignorance and stupidity....

No, what I mean is that Left means Right, as does Right means Right. Neither is a synonym for common sense and good ideas.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
No, what I mean is that Left means Right, as does Right means Right. Neither is a synonym for common sense and good ideas.
Okay...so you don't think that both parties are too right wing...or do you believe that just for good reasons as well?

America needs a new president and so does the uk

Well, The US will have a new president in a little over 2 years. I don't know when they'll call for elections in the UK or if Blair can run again.

Originally posted by docb77
Well, The US will have a new president in a little over 2 years. I don't know when they'll call for elections in the UK or if Blair can run again.

blair wont run again, he already has a nice job at some company after his term.. ye and bush cant stay another 4 years since presidents are only allowed to have two terms in office..

but a new puppet for the globalists wont be hard to find.. not in america nor in britian.

I agree with you a new pesident will only be good if he changes things

Originally posted by coolmovies
America needs a new president and so does the uk

That will not change anything. You are assuming that the president has real power.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That will not change anything. You are assuming that the president has real power.

and you are assuming that he doesn't.

interestingly, one of the people arrested in connection with the "terror plot" has already been released without charge.

Following on from previous "terror arrests" in England I wait for more of them to be released without charge, as has been the trend recently.

Strange that when people get released all goes quiet in the media. Fanfare and praise for the police when arrests are made, quietly swept under the carpe when people are released.

Also love the way that those arrested, before they have been formerly charged with anything, have their names and addresses plastered over the news.

One more thing: of all those in England arrested using the anti-terror laws 90% have been released without charge.

Farsical.

It is obvious that more people get arrested than charged, for example in murder cases, the arrest - charge rate must be similar as many suspects are arrested and spoken to for info, so they can be eliminated from the investigation. Thats because to arrest someone in the uk the police only need 'reasonable grounds to suspect' someone is guilty. If you compare that to 'beyond reasonable doubt' to get a conviction in court and the cps only charge when there is realistic prospect of conviction.

Its better to turn over all the stones and find what you're looking for than to leave some un-turned and not get a result. Especially with something as important as terrorism.

Terrorists only need to get lucky once. The Police need to be lucky every time, and they mostly have been, hence the countless foiled attacks (ie - mininstry of sound bombing that would have killed 2000 people in London that was foiled by MI5 and the police) hence there being over 60 terrorism cases awaiting trial in England. But that doesn't seem to get noticed does it.

For someone to be arrested for any "normal" crime requires that there is some form of evidence to suggest they are guilty. Fair enough.

However, "Tony's Terror Laws"TM allow police to arrest people without evidence. Not very fair at all. Unsurprisingly 90% of the time the people arrested without there being evidence are then released because no evidence is subsequently found.

It's a nonsense. Trying to protect our democratic way of life by removing the principles of said life.

Originally posted by baracustastic
For someone to be arrested for any "normal" crime requires that there is some form of evidence to suggest they are guilty. Fair enough.

However, "Tony's Terror Laws"TM allow police to arrest people without evidence. Not very fair at all. Unsurprisingly 90% of the time the people arrested without there being evidence are then released because no evidence is subsequently found.

It's a nonsense. Trying to protect our democratic way of life by removing the principles of said life.

The laws themselves don't allow the Police to arrest with less grounds than other offences, but you're right in that the more grave the offence, the easier it is to justify arresting people(say you raid a house and find your suspect, everyone else in there is likely to get arrested too). The problem is that if it is informant based info, it is simply the word of a person. Normal offences are the same in that people get arrested based on someones elses allegation (eg a security guard sees a shoplifter at it, detains him, and his word is good enough as long as he's willing to go to court and give evidence). But if someone says they know of a terrorist threat (and give sufficient details) and doesn't want to go to court, the police still have to act as the matter is too serious. i think in the case of this recent matter, it had to be done. The worst case scenario of not acting doesn't bare thinking about.

Originally posted by -Tired Hiker-
Thanks Britain for saving our asses. George Bush will try to take all the credit though, I'm sure.

You're so quick to say "George bush will probabley take the credit" yet you never give Bush any credit for what he has done to fight terrorism..kind of ignorant on your part

Originally posted by KidRock
You're so quick to say "George bush will probabley take the credit" yet you never give Bush any credit for what he has done to fight terrorism..kind of ignorant on your part

Like what? Bombing the country that had nothing to do with attacking America?

-AC

Lets not forget that we are getting closer and closer to midterm elections. TERRORISM is on the rise.

In any case. He cant take the credit for this job. It was down to London's finest. And we're still to see if there's anything to take credit for. I think it will bear fruit this time. It has to, so it probably will if you get what I mean.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Like what? Bombing the country that had nothing to do with attacking America?

-AC

Always looking at the negatives. Typical.

Originally posted by KidRock
Always looking at the negatives. Typical.

Well yes, suffering the most horrific human event since the holocaust and then going after a completely innocent (vis-a-vis the event) country tends to stand out a bit as a rather large, noticeable negative.

The only reason his actions seem positive are because you're of a similar mind. That being a rather stupid one.

-AC

Originally posted by KidRock
Always looking at the negatives. Typical.

So many Dilbert comic strips go like this...

PHB: Excellent news, our profits are through the roof after 6 months of the Balltropic 6000

Dilbert - But it is responsible for the death of thousands and as a result we are looking at bankruptcy in the resulting lawsuits.

PHB: Always looking at the negatives. Typical.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


The only reason his actions seem positive are because you're of a similar mind. That being a rather stupid one.

-AC

Personal insults now? That means you have nothing to bring to the table here. Too bad, I was looking to hand you your ass. Oh well, good day.



Imperial_Samura This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click

Originally posted by KidRock
Imperial_Samura This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click

Oh wow! I don't think I been on one of them before. Does this mean I can blatantly compare you with Dilbert's pointy Haired Boss instead of indirectly, and you wont know?

Personally I thought it was a valid comparison:

Person one: Yes, look at all the fighting going on. Those terrorists are really in trouble.

Person two: Ah, one of those nations where all the fighting is going on had no connection with the terrorist in question. What so ever.

How is that neither relevant or correct?

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Originally posted by KidRock
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And? Are you going to follow me to every thread and do that, unsure when or where I might be making referance to you?

Besides, it is not debating. I feel A.C made a good point, you can present a counter argument if you like, agree with him, or do nothing.

Originally posted by KidRock
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Wow, that's low. I didn't expect that...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Wow, that's low. I didn't expect that...

Lower then a.... bah, sleep deprived brain can't be bothered to come up with a simile/metaphor/allegory.

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Originally posted by Bardock42
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Ironic.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Ironic.

You know we will get banned, right?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You know we will get banned, right?

Not ironic.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Not ironic.

Not good either.