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The 2 are transported two the Moon for the battle, only the winner comes back.

Classic Juggernaut
(Asgardian)Destroyer

No BFR
No PIS
(There's some enchantment present that makes the moons gravity the equal to Earth's for them.)

Who wins and why?

The Destroyer is much more powerful than even classic juggernaut. It is even above Odin. I say Destroyer wins....i know you may not can kill juggernaut...but, I think he could be knocked out....and if he could be...then, I'm sure we'd definately find out in this fight. I do know that there is really nothing that Juggernaut can do to the Destroyer. So, If juggernaut can't be knocked out...then this may go on for a while...Juggy is just gonna have to pick himself up a million times..lol With Destroyer though...it seems like it would be kind of hard not to have a BFR...i mean he is more than capable of putting people in orbit..lol

p.s....especially in the moon's gravity....i mean it wouldn't take much to just float away from the surface.

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
p.s....especially in the moon's gravity....i mean it wouldn't take much to just float away from the surface.

Brain Fart. I didn't think of that. There I edited it.

bye bye jobbernaut

Asgardian Destroyer FTW

juggs slips over via his clumsyness and falls off the moon - coz the enchantment was done by rhino making any one within the premisis clumsy.

:

Originally posted by lilnutta12
juggs slips over via his clumsyness and falls off the moon - coz the enchantment was done by rhino making any one within the premisis clumsy.

:

Why isn't anybody voting?

its an eternal stalemate. but something i've always wanted to see. these are my 2 favorite characters.


another thing that should be mentioned is how many people are inhabiting the destroyer??? i'd say only 1 to make it a fair fight. even then its. equal. 50/50. 5/10. split right down the middle.


i just wonder what the dialogue would be like.

please prove its above odin id like to see that, anyway it wont kill juggs, juggs can increase his strengh to unlimited levels like hulk can, the point and fact is that he is to dumb to totally access all his own powers, when another person had the ruby of cyttorak he could do all kinds of things blasts, animating inanimated objects and such, if the destroyers strength if limited then juggs wont be able to do nothing to it, but if the destroyer's strengh is limited then juggernaut will just get to strong for the destroyer to protect itself, juggs will eventually pummel it, is this impossible for you to think, didnt hulk bend ultron even a little in secret wars, if you dont think thast much of a strengh feat he also picked up thors hammer with out being worthy i believe, my point is that what is known as indestructable in any of the comic worlds is not truly indestructable but highly impervious to most things, for example pure adimantium can take a hit from a nuke, yet we know that the power cosmic can hurt it as well as odins powers, uru is suppose to be indestructable but the celestials proved that is not so, of course you could bring up the point that maybe they used powers to mess with the molecules i cant disprove that but im not gonna just say destroyer wins and thats it, one reason is cause juggs may be dumb as a brick but he is more indestructable then adimantium or vibranium or uru, he's taken a god blast and servived which i believe can harm adimantium, as seen when king thor melted captain americas adimantium/vibranium shield, juggs was not screatched by the god blast of odin, and it shattered the celestial dome, even galactus is uncessesful of harming juggernaut.

Originally posted by Mider999
please prove its above odin id like to see that, anyway it wont kill juggs, juggs can increase his strengh to unlimited levels like hulk can,
picked up thors hammer with out being worthy i believe, my point is that what is known as indestructable in any of the comic worlds is not truly indestructable but highly impervious to most things, for example pure adimantium can take a hit from a nuke, yet we know that the power
celestial dome, even galactus is uncessesful of harming juggernaut.

All this means is that what's stopping the Destroyer from atomizing the indestructable Juggernaut?

As you said, nothing is truly indesctructable?

you know very well that he cant do that not even big gi could yup i did i also said he was more indestructable then most things only thing that ive heard of hurting him was another of his kind the examplars or whatever there called

Originally posted by Mider999
you know very well that he cant do that not even big gi could yup i did i also said he was more indestructable then most things only thing that ive heard of hurting him was another of his kind the examplars or whatever there called

Shatterstar has also.

Juggernaut becomes JuggerNought.

the problem here is they are both protected by similar spells. neither is going to get hurt/damaged/feel pain. regardless of what the other one throws... unless juggernaut starts throwing reality shattering punches (literally).


other than that this is a complete eternal never ending stalemate.

sounds like PIS if shatterstar hurt him not even odin can hurt him or big G

Originally posted by lft4ded
All this means is that what's stopping the Destroyer from atomizing the indestructable Juggernaut?

As you said, nothing is truly indesctructable?






Dr. Strange #182


This issue picks up right after Doctor Strange has been beaten by Nightmare after he came into his realm to rescue Eternity from Nightmare's imprisonment. Nightmare begins showing Strange his plans for Earth through a series of magical images. Strange takes this opportunity to enlist some help against Nightmare. That help would come in the form of Cain Marko. Nightmare's story is interrupted by The Juggernaut appearing from nowhere calling out his name. The Juggernaut(who was currently exiled in the Crimson Cosmos) was looking for a way back to Earth and he saw Nightmare's newest prisoner,Strange,as his ticket.

Knowing Strange was responsible for The Juggernaut's intrusion,Nightmare hits Strange with a torturous mental attack that brings him to his knees. The Juggernaut then closes in for battle with Nightmare and the two go at it,The Juggernaut having gained several mystical abilities in his exile. While the two fight Strange commands his cloak to regain the Eye of Agamotto(which Nightmare was using to bind him with) and once he has it back goes in search of Eternity. But Strange's escape did not go unnoticed. The Juggernaut breaks from the fight to point out to Nightmare that Strange has moved. They then blast "Strange" with their combined powers. But it turned out that what they attacked was just an illusion of Strange,and that what they really hit were the bonds holding Eternity. Freeing him to wreak his just vengeance.


The Juggernaut displays his impressive grasp of such things as scope and magnitude by seeing the living personification of the universe itself before him and saying to Nightmare "C'mon. Let's take him!". The slightly annoyed entity then suggests that he could have freed himself anytime he chose to. That the months he was held were not even an eye blink to one such as he. The essentially all-powerful Eternity then explains the folly of such affronts to him and with a mere wave of his hand banishes both Nightmare and The Juggernaut to oblivion.


---------------------


Hmm Eternity Banish him to oblivion, yet Cain is still fighing in New Excaliber. Guess Juggernaut resisted the will of enterinty. Here is the link.

http://geocities.com/Area51/Neptune/7060/Dr.Strange182.html

Originally posted by Apolloknight



Dr. Strange #182


This issue picks up right after Doctor Strange has been beaten by Nightmare after he came into his realm to rescue Eternity from Nightmare's imprisonment. Nightmare begins showing Strange his plans for Earth through a series of magical images. Strange takes this opportunity to enlist some help against Nightmare. That help would come in the form of Cain Marko. Nightmare's story is interrupted by The Juggernaut appearing from nowhere calling out his name. The Juggernaut(who was currently exiled in the Crimson Cosmos) was looking for a way back to Earth and he saw Nightmare's newest prisoner,Strange,as his ticket.

Knowing Strange was responsible for The Juggernaut's intrusion,Nightmare hits Strange with a torturous mental attack that brings him to his knees. The Juggernaut then closes in for battle with Nightmare and the two go at it,The Juggernaut having gained several mystical abilities in his exile. While the two fight Strange commands his cloak to regain the Eye of Agamotto(which Nightmare was using to bind him with) and once he has it back goes in search of Eternity. But Strange's escape did not go unnoticed. The Juggernaut breaks from the fight to point out to Nightmare that Strange has moved. They then blast "Strange" with their combined powers. But it turned out that what they attacked was just an illusion of Strange,and that what they really hit were the bonds holding Eternity. Freeing him to wreak his just vengeance.


The Juggernaut displays his impressive grasp of such things as scope and magnitude by seeing the living personification of the universe itself before him and saying to Nightmare "C'mon. Let's take him!". The slightly annoyed entity then suggests that he could have freed himself anytime he chose to. That the months he was held were not even an eye blink to one such as he. The essentially all-powerful Eternity then explains the folly of such affronts to him and with a mere wave of his hand banishes both Nightmare and The Juggernaut to oblivion.


---------------------


Hmm Eternity Banish him to oblivion, yet Cain is still fighing in New Excaliber. Guess Juggernaut resisted the will of enterinty. Here is the link.

http://geocities.com/Area51/Neptune/7060/Dr.Strange182.html
Cool.

Do you have any idea how he got back?

Originally posted by Accel
Cool.

Do you have any idea how he got back?


I wish I knew, I have been looking like crazy online and I cant seem to find anything. Kinda hard when He doesn't have his own book, he could of found his way back in a obscure one-shot for all we know.

destroyer>juggy easily

wats cain goin to do

Originally posted by guy222
destroyer>juggy easily

wats cain goin to do

Whats the Destroyer gonna do t Cain? Sure he can beat his ass, but he'd do so for eternity.

who is powering the destroyer armor?

I'd love to see this fight. Juggernaut at his peak was able to do as much damage to Thor as the Destroyer ever could, of course he was stopped before he crushed him but let's say if he wasn't. Thor would have died. Even in a weakened state Cain was able to survive being reduced to a skeleton, only to fully heal moments later, so any attempt to desintegrate him would more than likely fail. Someone stated that the Destroyer was going to be pushing Cain around, but I see it the other way around. I see Juggernaut pushing him around, and since neither of these guys tire, this fight would end with them most likely destroying the moon or whatever arena they fought on. BFR like I said before really never shows who truly wins. In the right setting this fight would never end..... Unless Uru gave way due to stress fractures, which could happen, the Destroyer certainly won't be hurting Juggernaut.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
I'd love to see this fight. Juggernaut at his peak was able to do as much damage to Thor as the Destroyer ever could, of course he was stopped before he crushed him but let's say if he wasn't. Thor would have died. Even in a weakened state Cain was able to survive being reduced to a skeleton, only to fully heal moments later, so any attempt to desintegrate him would more than likely fail. Someone stated that the Destroyer was going to be pushing Cain around, but I see it the other way around. I see Juggernaut pushing him around, and since neither of these guys tire, this fight would end with them most likely destroying the moon or whatever arena they fought on. BFR like I said before really never shows who truly wins. In the right setting this fight would never end..... Unless Uru gave way due to stress fractures, which could happen, the Destroyer certainly won't be hurting Juggernaut.

Juggernaut at his peak wasn't operating at normal levels. Although capable of accomplishing the same by himself, he was actually receiving extra power from Cyttorak in hopes that he'd prove Cyttorak superior to the others exemplars.

Anyhow, Destoyer wont destroy him, but he'd likely beast him.

Originally posted by Larceny
Juggernaut at his peak wasn't operating at normal levels. Although capable of accomplishing the same by himself, he was actually receiving extra power from Cyttorak in hopes that he'd prove Cyttorak superior to the others exemplars.

Anyhow, Destoyer wont destroy him, but he'd likely beast him.

Oh, I thought that we were going on the most powerful versions of the combatants? If so 8th Day should be able to overcome Uru over time.

Originally posted by Larceny
Anyhow, Destoyer wont destroy him, but he'd likely beast him. That... doesn't sound right...

is Odin > Cyttorak?
is Asgard > Cyttorak?
if not ... Juggernaut > Dystroyer.


given the failure of Thor to GodBlast Juggernaut, I'm guessing that this will be close, maybe even leaning towards juggernaut as being more durable than anything Asgard can summon forth.

Originally posted by janus77
is Odin > Cyttorak?
is Asgard > Cyttorak?
if not ... Juggernaut > Dystroyer.


given the failure of Thor to GodBlast Juggernaut, I'm guessing that this will be close, maybe even leaning towards juggernaut as being more durable than anything Asgard can summon forth. Aren't you the one who thinks Hulk can override Juggernaut's enchantments?

yeah, and Hulk stopped Juggernaut's forward momentum .

Hulk's also smashed The Destroyer and Juggernaut's also withstood the GodBlast. so both things taken into account, I'd say Destroyer is likely to fail against Juggernaut, since it's physically weaker than a pissed off Hulk (can be busted up by Hulk without much trouble) and since Asgard's magics (as manifested in the GodBlast) aren't strong enough to take down Juggernaut.

Originally posted by janus77
yeah, and Hulk stopped Juggernaut's forward momentum .

Hulk's also smashed The Destroyer and Juggernaut's also withstood the GodBlast. so both things taken into account, I'd say Destroyer is likely to fail against Juggernaut, since it's physically weaker than a pissed off Hulk (can be busted up by Hulk without much trouble) and since Asgard's magics (as manifested in the GodBlast) aren't strong enough to take down Juggernaut. With tech... and wasn't Juggy weakened (or so I heard)?

Hulk got his ass kicked badly by the Destroyer... In fact, if Hulk didn't get beat up so bad, he wouldn't have been able to grab Maestro and plot device out a win.

So, basically, Hulk>>>Odin/Asgard/Godblast?

Well, that's stupid as hell...

Plus, the Godblast did the same as Hulk. The G-Blast stopped him, and pushed him back. Hulk eventually stopped him.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
With tech... and wasn't Juggy weakened (or so I heard)?

Hulk got his ass kicked badly by the Destroyer... In fact, if Hulk didn't get beat up so bad, he wouldn't have been able to grab Maestro and plot device out a win.

So, basically, Hulk>>>Odin/Asgard/Godblast?

Well, that's stupid as hell...

Plus, the Godblast did the same as Hulk. The G-Blast stopped him, and pushed him back. Hulk eventually stopped him.
WWH stopped him also, same deal as when Thor GodBlasted Juggernaut, the Juggernaut's momentum/force was such that if it couldn't move forward, which it could not, it would collapse the ground. only difference in the WWH example, WWH was clearly indifferent to the whole 'throwdown' being exclusively focussed upon revenge against the Illuminati and so he bfr'd Juggernaut instead of endangering the X-Men by collapsing the grounds of the mansion.

when WarHulk beat down Juggernaut it was also with physical force, so the basic premise of Juggernaut getting beat down if someone can produce the necessary force held true there too (as it did when Onslaught beat down Juggernaut).

Juggernaut's highly durable not indestructible.

Hulk's gotten "beat down" plenty of times during WWH, it doesn't change the fact that he always comes back stronger.

as for the "Hulk > Odin... " stuff, it's quite similar to saying "WWH > Galactus", because Sentry = Galactus... we know that things are more complex than straight-forward ABC so why build strawmen?

ah, I see you edited that last line in there...


the difference between the Thor - Juggernaut conflict (GodBlast) and the WWH - Juggernaut one is that GodBlast was Thor's trump card, his ultimate weapon of last resort, hence the big talk as he got it ready. Hulk was simply dialing it up a little, nowhere near the upper reaches of his powers. and in a battle about which he was patently indifferent.

just imagine if Hulk had seriously unleashed upon Juggernaut, you've seen a little of the phenomenal powers he possesses, when Meik sent him into a rage... WWH, when he was fighting Juggernaut, was nowhere near to that level.

Hulk>>>>Zom/Strange>>>>Juggernaut.

You and your long posts don't scare me... unless they're really long, then I won't even skim over them.
Originally posted by janus77
WWH stopped him also, same deal as when Thor GodBlasted Juggernaut, the Juggernaut's momentum/force was such that if it couldn't move forward, which it could not, it would collapse the ground. only difference in the WWH example, WWH was clearly indifferent to the whole 'throwdown' being exclusively focussed upon revenge against the Illuminati and so he bfr'd Juggernaut instead of endangering the X-Men by collapsing the grounds of the mansion.

when WarHulk beat down Juggernaut it was also with physical force, so the basic premise of Juggernaut getting beat down if someone can produce the necessary force held true there too (as it did when Onslaught beat down Juggernaut).

Juggernaut's highly durable not indestructible.

Hulk's gotten "beat down" plenty of times during WWH, it doesn't change the fact that he always comes back stronger.

as for the "Hulk > Odin... " stuff, it's quite similar to saying WWH > Galactus, because Sentry = Galactus. we know that things are more complex than straight-forward ABC ... No he didn't. As you can plainly see in the panel, Hulk is getting pushed back.

Juggy was never beat down... he was stopped and thrown though (and we know how many times he's been defeated by being thrown).
I don't see how that equates into a win... but it would show that he could stop him... as was with Thor. Could Juggernaut have gotten his head cut off? Perhaps, but it's speculation to say either way. But we do know that it was never shown, simply put.

As is with Hulk, Juggy is supposedly indestructible. Yes he's been hurt, but Hulk's also shown to be able to not be able to do something, and then is able to surpass that feat a little later, as has Juggernaut with his indestructibility.
It's purely bias to accept one, but not the other... unless you accept neither.

Ya well, that's irrelevant, because you said Destroyer was smashed by Hulk, which is, and will be, a lie. Pure and simple, you lied.
Hulk got his ass kicked. Hulk plot deviced a win, but he was shown as a clear inferior.

Except the fact that you think that Odin can't dish out the force to hurt Juggernaut, but you think Hulk can. Which, by all means, would make Hulk superior to Odin.
It's not complex at all. Apparently Hulk can dish out more damage then Odin, which would make him more powerful.

Also, it's quite dull of you to bring up the Sentry = Galactus statement.
You don't have to be anywhere near an equal to stalemate someone... especially since Galactus, and Sentry's powers work so differently.
For all you know, Sentry punched Galactus once to no effect, and dodged all of Galactus's attacks.
Nevermind the fact that we have no proof of the fight, except for a joking, lying, Sentry fanboy (Spider-Man), but Quasar has been shown to stalemate Galactus as well... on panel none-the-less. Does that mean Quasar is as powerful as Galactus? Not at all. If Galactus exerted his might into attacks against Quasar, Quasar would have been turned to slag. However, Quasar did it, and Quasar isn't Galactus's equal... not by a long shot.

Good night Irene.

Originally posted by janus77
ah, I see you edited that last line in there...


the difference between the Thor - Juggernaut conflict (GodBlast) and the WWH - Juggernaut one is that GodBlast was Thor's trump card, his ultimate weapon of last resort, hence the big talk as he got it ready. Hulk was simply dialing it up a little, nowhere near the upper reaches of his powers. and in a battle about which he was patently indifferent.

just imagine if Hulk had seriously unleashed upon Juggernaut, you've seen a little of the phenomenal powers he possesses, when Meik sent him into a rage... WWH, when he was fighting Juggernaut, was nowhere near to that level. Hulk was trying to stop him for miles... or at least waiting for it.

You've no proof that the Hulk that fought Juggy was weaker than the one at the end of WWH. Other than teh gamma, and a footstep causing massive damage.
Unfortunately for the gamma... Hulk was getting other energy funneled in him, so the gamma thing would never happen.

And the footstep causing damage is easily overridden by Eternity stepping on planets and not destroying them (I highly doubt even you would say Hulk is more powerful than Eternity). Not every step has to be a planet destroyer for you to be powerful.

Two universes funneled into Hulk is a lot of power, as well. And, judging by your previous statements, War Hulk was powerful enough to fight Celestials... which, by all rights should make him more powerful than Roid Hulk.
If he was as powerful as even one Celestial (perhaps that's what you think), and you think Roid Hulk is more powerful... well then... then that's f*cked up.

Also, I will give you this, WWH at the end was angrier, but War Hulk also had a little powerup. It would be impossible to accurately judge them both (at those levels, ie Roid Hulk, and Glowing War Hulk).

of course there's no "proof", since it's only implied throughout WWH that Hulk varies his power-level with respect to the opponent. he smashed Zom/Strange with three blows, yet he traded blows with Warpath and several X-men, when it's blindingly obvious he could have one-shotted/killed them if he had wanted to.

as far as I'm concerned there's +evidence+ to reasonably infer it though, and that's the fact that Hulk was so enraged that he was concerned that he was loosing control of himself. that's all that is necessary imo.

Hulk was literally going to bust up the eastern seaboard with a few steps, an unintended action, merely because he couldn't control the power that was rushing into him

your Eternity example is of course absurd, but even so, it might be suggested that Eternity doesn't break the world because he controls and keeps his power within him, treading lightly upon the Earth, whereas Hulk had reached a level of power he'd never experienced before and so was totally incapable of keeping it all in before he did some serious damage.


as for the Celestials stuff, wha? what's all that in reference to?
I was speaking of WWH not WarHulk. War Hulk's best feat is something WWH did with less of a strain, and whilst not particularly amped. it stands to reason that if he was really unleashing some of the power he demonstrated later, juggernaut would have been busted up far worse than he was at the hands of War Hulk.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
You and your long posts don't scare me... unless they're really long, then I won't even skim over them.
No he didn't. As you can plainly see in the panel, Hulk is getting pushed back.

Juggy was never beat down... he was stopped and thrown though (and we know how many times he's been defeated by being thrown).
I don't see how that equates into a win... but it would show that he could stop him... as was with Thor. Could Juggernaut have gotten his head cut off? Perhaps, but it's speculation to say either way. But we do know that it was never shown, simply put.

As is with Hulk, Juggy is supposedly indestructible. Yes he's been hurt, but Hulk's also shown to be able to not be able to do something, and then is able to surpass that feat a little later, as has Juggernaut with his indestructibility.
It's purely bias to accept one, but not the other... unless you accept neither.

Ya well, that's irrelevant, because you said Destroyer was smashed by Hulk, which is, and will be, a lie. Pure and simple, you lied.
Hulk got his ass kicked. Hulk plot deviced a win, but he was shown as a clear inferior.

Except the fact that you think that Odin can't dish out the force to hurt Juggernaut, but you think Hulk can. Which, by all means, would make Hulk superior to Odin.
It's not complex at all. Apparently Hulk can dish out more damage then Odin, which would make him more powerful.

Also, it's quite dull of you to bring up the Sentry = Galactus statement.
You don't have to be anywhere near an equal to stalemate someone... especially since Galactus, and Sentry's powers work so differently.
For all you know, Sentry punched Galactus once to no effect, and dodged all of Galactus's attacks.
Nevermind the fact that we have no proof of the fight, except for a joking, lying, Sentry fanboy (Spider-Man), but Quasar has been shown to stalemate Galactus as well... on panel none-the-less. Does that mean Quasar is as powerful as Galactus? Not at all. If Galactus exerted his might into attacks against Quasar, Quasar would have been turned to slag. However, Quasar did it, and Quasar isn't Galactus's equal... not by a long shot.

Good night Irene.
regarding the Destroyer fight, I'll get hold of the scans when I can, as I recall he did smash it in the end, though he was getting beat down (as if that means anything to The Hulk - Zom/Strange? Sentry?) before that.

re WWH - Juggernaut, he stopped him, hence the "forward momentum" redirected downwards. play with semantics how you like, the writer admits that Juggernaut's +forward+ momentum wasn't going forward any more ("redirected into the ground". that's something only Thor's GodBlast and WarHulk has previously accomplished. and it's for certain that WWH wasn't concerned about Juggernaut nor intent on beating him down. the whole arc goes to great lengths to show - even stating explicitly through Cho - that Hulk's always got the safety on, that he is always holding back.

as for the WWH > GodBlast :. WWH > Asgard/Odin, it is pretty much the same (specious strawman) as suggesting that WWH > Galactus because Sentry = Galactus.

Odin's powers are greater than The GodBlast, are they not? Asgard isn't being drained of its power when Thor uses the GodBlast is it?

the same way that Galactus might not even have been aware of Sentry when he 'stalemated', so Odin/Asgard wasn't exerting himself when Thor's GodBlast failed to put down Juggernaut.

it's just that Juggernaut is more durable than the big weapon, than the might of Asgard so far demonstrated. and I believe, given Hulk's fight with The Destroyer (it "beat down" on him, as you say but it couldn't put him down). that Juggernaut would fare well.

Long post... I hate long posts. But if I'm going to catch Santa, I gotta stay up, so I got time to burn.

Originally posted by janus77
of course there's no "proof", since it's only implied throughout WWH that Hulk varies his power-level with respect to the opponent. he smashed Zom/Strange with three blows, yet he traded blows with Warpath and several X-men, when it's blindingly obvious he could have one-shotted/killed them if he had wanted to. Zom Strange let down his guard. Plus, Angle one-shotted Zom Cho... obviously not that durable.

He didn't trade blows with the X-Men... he practically raped them. He one-shot head butted Warpath as well...

Originally posted by janus77
as far as I'm concerned there's +evidence+ to reasonably infer it though, and that's the fact that Hulk was so enraged that he was concerned that he was loosing control of himself. that's all that is necessary imo. That's evidence? Wha?


Originally posted by janus77
Hulk was literally going to bust up the eastern seaboard with a few steps, an unintended action, merely because he couldn't control the power that was rushing into him

your Eternity example is of course absurd, but even so, it might be suggested that Eternity doesn't break the world because he controls and keeps his power within him, treading lightly upon the Earth, whereas Hulk had reached a level of power he'd never experienced before and so was totally incapable of keeping it all in before he did some serious damage. He couldn't control it... but War Hulk could because of the tech.
Which would make that irrelevant to a comparison of the two.

Even then, he's still supposedly omnipotent, and perhaps as heavy as the universe. Also, Galactus has smashed Surfer into a building before with his hands. The building wasn't destroyed. Would this make WWH higher than Galactus?

Maybe these examples are absurd, but I just don't see how him rocking the world puts him at this ridiculous level when more powerful beings haven't done as much damage... and they are by all rights, more powerful.


Originally posted by janus77
as for the Celestials stuff, wha? what's all that in reference to?
I was speaking of WWH not WarHulk. War Hulk's best feat is something WWH did with less of a strain, and whilst not particularly amped. it stands to reason that if he was really unleashing some of the power he demonstrated later, juggernaut would have been busted up far worse than he was at the hands of War Hulk. Just using examples of stuff you've said in the past, in comparison to War and WWH.

He didn't stop him, and he was getting pushed back, before he moved out of the way.

He wasn't busted up in his fight with War, he was only stopped, thrown, and dumbfounded.

Plus, that's pretty baseless speculation.


Originally posted by janus77
regarding the Destroyer fight, I'll get hold of the scans when I can, as I recall he did smash it in the end, though he was getting beat down (as if that means anything to The Hulk - Zom/Strange? Sentry?) before that. He smashed it in the end, because he started to fight Maestro, and close his visor right before he was about to destroy Hulk.

Oh please. He was pissed in the fight with Destroyer. He got his ass handed him.


Originally posted by janus77
re WWH - Juggernaut, he stopped him, hence the "forward momentum" redirected downwards. play with semantics how you like, the writer admits that Juggernaut's +forward+ momentum wasn't going forward any more ("redirected into the ground". that's something only Thor's GodBlast and WarHulk has previously accomplished. and it's for certain that WWH wasn't concerned about Juggernaut nor intent on beating him down. the whole arc goes to great lengths to show - even stating explicitly through Cho - that Hulk's always got the safety on, that he is always holding back. Perhaps, but it certainly doesn't look like that to me. Especially since the ground was being torn up before they locked arms. Plus, even then, Hulk's feet were being pushed back.
Also, if he redirected his movement, does that mean he was stopped, or does that mean he's still moving, but in another direction?
Because, if that's true, then that means that it wasn't pure strength or power that did it like the G-Blast, or War.
Blarg, it's late... so you'll probably find holes in my logic, and I'll fix it tomorrow.

Hulk didn't want to hurt innocent people... Hulk knew of no innocents that were in danger in the fight with Juggy until X said something, and that's when Hulk moved out of the way.

Originally posted by janus77
as for the WWH > GodBlast :. WWH > Asgard/Odin, it is pretty much the same (specious strawman) as suggesting that WWH > Galactus because Sentry = Galactus. I don't understand what the hell you tried to say here.

But, the only part I actually got, was that Sentry = Galactus, and that's false.

Originally posted by janus77
Odin's powers are greater than The GodBlast, are they not? Asgard isn't being drained of its power when Thor uses the GodBlast is it? Most likely, however...
"is Odin > Cyttorak?
is Asgard > Cyttorak?
if not ... Juggernaut > Dystroyer.

given the failure of Thor to GodBlast Juggernaut, I'm guessing that this will be close, maybe even leaning towards juggernaut as being more durable than anything Asgard can summon forth."

And since you think Hulk can override Juggy's enchantments...

Also, you clearly don't understand how the G-Blast works as well. It is a mix of Thor's godly might, and Mjolnir, not Asgard.


Originally posted by janus77
the same way that Galactus might not even have been aware of Sentry when he 'stalemated', so Odin/Asgard wasn't exerting himself when Thor's GodBlast failed to put down Juggernaut. We don't know the circumstances of the Galactus fight.

Plus, that was Thor's G-Blast, nothing more, nothing less. The same thing has made Galactus run off in fear of his life, and crushed a harder than Celestial object (Exitar's headcase. Granted, he protected his hammer with the Belt of Strength, but it was never said to be stronger).
Although, I'm not sure it was fully Juggy's durability, but rather his enchantment of unstoppable protecting him.

Originally posted by janus77
it's just that Juggernaut is more durable than the big weapon, than the might of Asgard so far demonstrated. and I believe, given Hulk's fight with The Destroyer (it "beat down" on him, as you say but it couldn't put him down). that Juggernaut would fare well. Destroyer started to beat him down in like two or three pages... he didn't have time to finish him.

Plus, I'm not sure how Destroyer's beam would do against Juggernaut. Although, if apparently Hulk can punch him out, then the beam will rip Juggy apart.

From what I've read in the above posts, the Destroyer these days is nothing like when it first appeared. My impression was that it was the most powerful character Marvel had yet created. Back then, it was intro'd as the "Indestructible Destroyer." Animated by an ordinary mortal, it was manhandling Thor in a way I've never seen Hulk or Juggernaut do, and it could unleash bolts of "limitless force" (that's how it effortlessly sliced Mjolner in half). So based on this: unless Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability, the Destroyer wins. At the very least, it could trap him the way it trapped Thor: first by liquifying the floor so he sinks down to his waist, then solidifying the floor to the hardness of Asgardian diamonds (which would be incomparably more effective than trapping him in concrete).

Originally posted by Mindship
From what I've read in the above posts, the Destroyer these days is nothing like when it first appeared. My impression was that it was the most powerful character Marvel had yet created. Back then, it was intro'd as the "Indestructible Destroyer." Animated by an ordinary mortal, it was manhandling Thor in a way I've never seen Hulk or Juggernaut do, and it could unleash bolts of "limitless force" (that's how it effortlessly sliced Mjolner in half). So based on this: unless Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability, the Destroyer wins. At the very least, it could trap him the way it trapped Thor: first by liquifying the floor so he sinks down to his waist, then solidifying the floor to the hardness of Asgardian diamonds (which would be incomparably more effective than trapping him in concrete).


All hail the Des...! Look, Juggernaut should be able to survive anything that The Destroyer throws at him, but as we all know everything that has substance to it has a breaking point unless stated otherwise, Juggernaut should fall under this theory as well, except for one little thing. He can heal, and at a rapid rate. Juggernaut has this trademark you see, which means that nothing can stop him, he can be slowed down for a while but cement, nor Asgardian diamond is stopping him he'll break out of it because it would never touch his skin. Spiderman never stopped Juggernaut he only slowed him down as madame Web told Peter that he has no chance of stopping Cain only slowing him. People need to get the facts straight about that fight. Spiderman beat Firelord not Juggernaut.

8th day Juggernaut was going to crush Thor as easily as The Destroyer did when he gave him a compound fracture to his arm. Thor even said it himself that if he did not escape quickly that Cain was going to kill him (concerning his fight with 8th day Juggs). The only thing that stops Cain from normally being as powerful as he was is his mindset. I'm not saying that Juggernaut is going to have a cake walk, but what I am saying is that he should be able to outlast even the Destroyer and perhaps over time compromise the armor itself, the Celestials did it.... and lots quicker than Juggernaut would, but Cain is effectively immortal and he does not tire, need to eat, or breathe. The disintegration beam is another thing. But can is it greater than the enchantment that surround Juggernaut? The Godblast failed aginst Cain the disintegration beam should as well. Would Juggernaut use his shield while facing an opponent of this caliber? More than likely.

What this all means, is that the two of these guys could fight forever, I just have doubts that anything could take a 1000 ton pounding forever and not grow stress fractures. This would and should be without PIS/CIS be a battle of attrition, and Cain should win out in the long run... lets say a few years or so. Why? Because Cain heals the Destroyer does not have a self repair routine, if it did surely it would have overcome the Celestials in time.

Destroyers disintagration beam is > godblast

Destroyer armor cant have "stress fracture" cuz its magic (jus like Cain is magic so he dont get tired)


IMO stalemate if Cain use his FF

Destroyer wins handily.

I accidentally voted for Juggernaut, but I meant Destroyer, dammit.

In cases of uniquely powerful characters, Juggernaut can very much be hurt/killed. War Hulk stopped Juggernaut to prove War Hulk was seriously amped, and so I think they meant to imply War Hulk really was going to behead Juggernaut. Onslaught ripped his chest open. Never mind the mystery of the gem being in his chest. And Destroyer was made by Odin, forged out of uru, and has pwned Thor several times.

The Destroyer rips Cain's helmet off, gouges his eyes out, and skull f*cks him.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
Destroyers disintagration beam is > godblast
Based on?

Originally posted by Mindset
Based on? destroyer powered by odin + other gods

thor godblast power by...thor only? ermmhappy

Originally posted by Mider999
please prove its above odin id like to see that, anyway it wont kill juggs, juggs can increase his strengh to unlimited levels like hulk can, the point and fact is that he is to dumb to totally access all his own powers, when another person had the ruby of cyttorak he could do all kinds of things blasts, animating inanimated objects and such, if the destroyers strength if limited then juggs wont be able to do nothing to it, but if the destroyer's strengh is limited then juggernaut will just get to strong for the destroyer to protect itself, juggs will eventually pummel it, is this impossible for you to think, didnt hulk bend ultron even a little in secret wars, if you dont think thast much of a strengh feat he also picked up thors hammer with out being worthy i believe, my point is that what is known as indestructable in any of the comic worlds is not truly indestructable but highly impervious to most things, for example pure adimantium can take a hit from a nuke, yet we know that the power cosmic can hurt it as well as odins powers, uru is suppose to be indestructable but the celestials proved that is not so, of course you could bring up the point that maybe they used powers to mess with the molecules i cant disprove that but im not gonna just say destroyer wins and thats it, one reason is cause juggs may be dumb as a brick but he is more indestructable then adimantium or vibranium or uru, he's taken a god blast and servived which i believe can harm adimantium, as seen when king thor melted captain americas adimantium/vibranium shield, juggs was not screatched by the god blast of odin, and it shattered the celestial dome, even galactus is uncessesful of harming juggernaut.


When did hulk ever pick up Thor's hammer please let me know because I've only seen Ultimate Hulk do it in the Ultimate Avengers movie and that is not canon.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
destroyer powered by odin + other gods

thor godblast power by...thor only? ermmhappy

Originally posted by stan5677
When did hulk ever pick up Thor's hammer please let me know because I've only seen Ultimate Hulk do it in the Ultimate Avengers movie and that is not canon. You do realize that he has been banned three years ago. A reply is improbable

Originally posted by kgkg
You do realize that he has been banned three years ago. A reply is improbable



mider was a classic. those 10000 character single paragraphs were priceless.

Dread Destroyer

Originally posted by leonidas


mider was a classic. those 10000 character single paragraphs were priceless. ya

I wonder what would happen if Destroyer used his beam on Juggs? Will his durability be able to handle such an attack? I'm thinking it won't.

Originally posted by kgkg
ya

I wonder what would happen if Destroyer used his beam on Juggs? Will his durability be able to handle such an attack? I'm thinking it won't. Juggy will sh!t all over Destroyer.

And he's gonna do wat good friend to the Dread One

Celestials

Odin

only two to stop the Destroyer

I don't see Cain winning this

Originally posted by kgkg
ya

I wonder what would happen if Destroyer used his beam on Juggs? Will his durability be able to handle such an attack? I'm thinking it won't.

the GB wasn't COMPLETELY ineffective. it did stop him and force him to back up ever so slightly. we don't really know what the outcome would have been since the ground gave way first. i'd think the disintegrator could probably overcome the enchantment. if not one, repeated blasts would be able to imo. destroyer really has nothing to fear at all from juggs either.

Originally posted by guy222
And he's gonna do wat good friend to the Dread One

Celestials

Odin

only two to stop the Destroyer

I don't see Cain winning this

Add

Thor w/Thor power also