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ok well i saw rots vader vs anakin and that match obviously went to anakin cuz rots vader just got into the suit and cant do much.

well ok the vader during ESB is far stronger than the vader in ROTS.
vader still uses the same lightsaber technique as when he was anakin which is the shien form . the vader in ESB was also able to choke an imperial officer 8 kilometers away while he is in the executor.

while the anakin in ROTS choked padme. it didnt seem as good as the 1 in esb and it didnt kill padme. while in a duel with luke he is also at the same time capable of throwing objects at luke.

well thats just my opinion what about u guys?

In a saber duel, Anakin wins. But Force wise 'Empire' Vader is far superior. So hard to tell really.

hmm, i'm going vader on this, be i am being bias here so my opinion counts for next to nothing

i mean who likes anakin more than vader???

Originally posted by Mesirus
i mean who likes anakin more than vader???

Uh, I do? Who doesn't like Anakin over Vader? Lol. If you're talking about Vader in a suit, he's pretty pathetic. He's a crippled half droid, and he's uglier than all hell. Anakin in ROTS, before being burned that is, is much cooler. He's a much better character, too. Plus, his monotone voice > Vader's cyborg voice.

Anyways, if it comes down to lightsaber dueling - Anakin wins. I'm certain OT Vader's a better Force user, studying the Dark side for twenty years, but it all depends if they depend to duel with just lightsabers - which I see no reason why they wouldn't. Anakin/Vader seems to choose pure saber duels more so than using the Force. For example, against Dooku, against Obi-Wan, against Obi-Wan (Ben), and against Luke.

Even if Anakin was a better saber duelist, Vader would know exactly what Anakin is capable of, and have an edge in a lightsaber fight, or know to just punk him with the force early on.

To add to what Advent was saying, ROTS Anakin is very sexy.

Yes, but Vader's genitals were most likely, burnt/scraped off, and has been living without sexuality for 20 years, so, it won't help.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yes, but Vader's genitals were most likely, burnt/scraped off, and has been living without sexuality for 20 years, so, it won't help. That only adds to the disgust factor.

EWWWW come on!! these things i don't need to know!!!!
and i like vader more, he's got the mask and is far more intimidating that a lil pip squeak like ani

'EWWWW come on!! these things i don't need to know!!!!'

Exactly. lol, way too much detail there Jim.

This is an interesting duel.

Anakin: ROTS Anakin is a master of Form V Shien. He is incredibly quick and strong with the lightsaber. He doesn't use much Force abilities in combat, instead relying on his saber. However, ROTS Anakin is very overconfident of his skills (this is shown by how Dooku cut off his hand and how Obi-Wan sliced his body in half on Mustafar).

Vader: Vader is master of a Form V variant, Djem So. He is also skilled in Makashi and Soresu. He uses the Force more often than Anakin, with abilities like Force Choke, Force throw, Lightsaber throw, etc. In addition, his armor protects to an extent: lightsaber thrusts. However, he is much more slower and can't jump in the air (at least he doesn't want to, remembering Mustafar . In addition, Vader has a more calm mind in due to his loss to Obi-wan, therefore he won't get overconfident. Finally, Vader was a Jedi hunter during the two decades from ROTS to THN.

Winner: Anakin will go straight at him with Shien slices. Vader will use Makashi and throw objects with the other (like the ESB duel with Luke). So Anakin has to slice those objects while blocking Vader. Personally, it could go any way. Either Anakin gets tired and makes a mistake. OR Vader cannot fend off the quickness of Anakin and loses.

Personally, I go with Vader for experience wise in killing Jedi. But Anakin can win. You guys decide.

Hmmm I saw a video of someone playing ROTS video game on youtube and it was Vader versus Ani and they were both somersalting over each other like Yoda. Yeh thats the game all over but the real thing would be pretty different.
When deciding how much of a challenge Ani would be against suit Vader lets look at Vader's fights:
Luke - well they both seem to be using Djem-so which would explain why it was so clunky and unelegant etc. but it looks like Luke in his rage overpowered him - rage is interesting - would Vader be fighting the same Ani in ROTS with all that rage?
It seemed also that Kenobi did not have the skill to defeat Vader as his powers were weakened and he could't break through Vader's specialised channel defence into offense swordsmanship as well as his brute force.
I could also see Vader beating Dooku with his brute force also
Vader also beats Darth Maul at some point when he is brought back to life
I can imagine the duel between Ani and Vader looking a bit like Luke . I suppose one way of looking at it would be to wonder who would win out of Luke and Ani both on anger mode. Probably Ani as he had more skill and Luke's baseball bat swings spoke for themselves. And if Luke can beat Vader as he did in ROTJ then I think Ani could too. After all he does have the advantage of speed and flexibility so I'd say:
Ani barely

i hear what akira and Vos are saying but, if vader makes a go for anik's body ani lacks the brute strength to fend that off, but yeah, its no sure win, good fight actully

well ok the thing is Vader the man in the suit was strong but he hadnt had time to do the thing sidious did as in discovering the ancient sith techniques which i believed he could have.

vader cant use sith lightning because both his arms are cyborg, not organic and i got this source from a guide book to rots. had his left arm not hacked off he would have mastered sith lightning and that would have made him alot stronger than he is during the OT

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=385&page=22

Oh noes!!!

Originally posted by jollyjim311
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=385&page=22

Oh noes!!!

Oh noes! Except Splinter of the Mind's Eye is hardly canon! Uh, what happened to the Kaiburr Crystal again? Nothing? It was never mentioned again? Why does Luke display a greater Force proficiency than he does in the movies? He does things in there that he can't do in the movies. Vader never lost another arm. SotME is pretty far from canon.

And explain, if you will, how Vader can use Force lightning without dying when: a) Metal is an obvious conductor for electricity, b) Vader dies by getting hit with Force lightning, because it affected his suit, and c) Nothing is ever mentioned of Vader using lightning before, in fact, SoTME is trumped by RODV:

"Yes, Vader was not precisely what he had bargained for. Vader's legs and arms were artificial, and he would never be able to summon lightning or leap about like the Jedi had been fond of doing."

-- Rise of Darth Vader, Chapter 21; written by James Luceno, 2005.

PWNED. OH NOES!!!!!!!!!

I know that most of it has been recalled, thanks for over -reacting and pointing out the obvious.

No problem. That's what I'm here for.

yah right anniekan gets pwned up teh bungholoe LOL pwneed theh n00b and haxed ROFLOLMAOCOOPTERSKAZTEZ

what lightsaber form does vader use? does he still use the shien form or that other 1.


o ya and what is NJO lukes 20 lightsaber form called

Meh, VAder chokes Anakin out from The Executor. Match over.

Originally posted by ESB Vader
what lightsaber form does vader use? does he still use the shien form or that other 1.

He uses a variant of Djem So.



There's no such thing as a "20 lightsaber form", lol. He also uses a variant of Djem So - as it'd be seemingly impossible to be a straight forward Djem So user when there's no master to teach you, nonetheless, like I said - it's a variant. And during the NJO, it's described as "looking as if he were wielding twenty lightsabers".

Hey Advent, how comes you're not laying down some mega pwnage at EOD?

Originally posted by Advent
He uses a variant of Djem So.



There's no such thing as a "20 lightsaber form", lol. He also uses a variant of Djem So - as it'd be seemingly impossible to be a straight forward Djem So user when there's no master to teach you, nonetheless, like I said - it's a variant. And during the NJO, it's described as "looking as if he were wielding twenty lightsabers".

wait what do u mean? he uses the same style as vader?
also is this djem so the shien form?

Originally posted by Sith'ari
Hey Advent, how comes you're not laying down some mega pwnage at EOD?

Because there's already enough people to do that? Lol.

I don't know. I was invited to join by Janus like 4 months ago, haha, and only posted a few times since April. But I'm surely going to start soon.

Originally posted by ESB Vader
wait what do u mean? he uses the same style as vader?
also is this djem so the shien form?

No. Vader's variant of Djem So is using one hand, and some other skills. Luke's is a variant of Djem So, too, but not the same as Vader. They use the same core form, but not the actual same variant of the form. Make sense?

And Djem So is Shien, yeah.

so why is luke considered to be the best saber fighter?

Originally posted by ESB Vader
so why is luke considered to be the best saber fighter?

What does that have to do with what I wrote. . . ? He's considered the best lightsaber fighter because he is. Do you want me to list all of his feats? And quotes on his lightsaber skill and prowess or something?

Sure, its not like you have a life or anything... whistling

Originally posted by Blaxican Hydra
Sure, its not like you have a life or anything... whistling

u talking to me? whats wrong with me asking if im willing to learn then debate?

i ask things out of curiosity and garbage doesnt flung out my mouth

I was talking to Advent...

djem so isn't shien, shien is for sending blaster bolts back at enemies (soresu sends bolts anywhere), djem so is for saber to saber battles, anakin mastered both styles by the time of ROTS.

I agree with the poster who said who on earth likes anakin better than vader.

I mean, Vaders a screen legend. He's like the Marlon Brando of Star Wars, and Anakins just an arrogant and dislikable teenager.

If we consider some of the EU material starring Vader, we can't think of his ability post RotS as weak, even with the clunky suit. Apart from hunting Jedi in the intervening years between RotS and ANH, he also manages to kill a clone of Darth Maul, matching his acrobatics to e to toe on a volcanic planet similar to Mustafar.

well ESB vader has some abilities making him strong but the reason hes weak is because of his metal legs and arms, he cant do normal sith lightning because it will electricute(sry im bad at spelling >< pls bear with it)his life support system and cause him to die. sigh what a fool when he was anakin.

well if he hand his left arm organic not cut off then he can do lightning and become stronger than when hes with his stupid cyborg hands.

not completely the suit which slows him, its his legs and hands, he cant force jump cuz he cant focus his power on his artifiicial legs.
well vader is the first sith we see in SW, i bet the creators of revan got their ideas from vader

Vader force jumps and flips around when fighting Darth Mauls clone in Star Wars Tales: Volume 3

wait i did read a source where it says vader does lightning differently than all the other sith, instead of projecting it from his hands, he makes it appear around his victim.

well considering vader has knowledge i believe he did that because i was reading it from a source. tho it was from wikipedia it does take most of the info from canon sources

Lightning doesn't inherently make a Sith Lord though...

ROTS Anakin, after defeating Count Dooku, is basically the third strongest Jedi, after Yoda and Mace Windu. (His downfall to Kenobi was due to his arrogance)

George Lucas claims that due to his injuries on Mustafar and the donning of the suit, Darth Vader only grew to be 80% of Sidious's level. So to find a correct comparision of how good Vader is we have to find what Jedi is 80% of Sidious.

Personally, I believe Count Dooku is around this level. Dooku is strong but Sidious didn't teach him to be powerful enough. So using this example, we can say that ESB Darth Vader is about equal to Count Dooku.

However, Anakin is better than Dooku since he defeated him. Therefore, it will be an even more closer duel since Anakin is barely better than Dooku, and according to my theory, Vader is about equvilant to Darth Tyrannus.

Therefore, Anakin should win due to his speed and skill, however Vader makes good use of the Force while Anakin is just Mr. Lightsaber man.


P.S: Had Anakin survived Mustafar without his injuries, GL says that he would have been twice as strong as Sidious.

Even if that was right, Vader would know all about Anakin, seeing as how he was him. He would know exactly what to expect in a saber duel, and utilize his form against him. Also, if Vader thought it would be risky in a saber fight, he would just toss him around using the force, which is probably the smarter choice.

Well thought out theory Vos

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Even if that was right, Vader would know all about Anakin, seeing as how he was him. He would know exactly what to expect in a saber duel, and utilize his form against him. Also, if Vader thought it would be risky in a saber fight, he would just toss him around using the force, which is probably the smarter choice.

This is true, when he is being beaten by a faster more agile saber dueler, Vader resorts to the Force to just pwn them.

Anyway, I didn't declare Anakin the winner. I was just saying if the two never knew each other (even though that's impossible) then Anakin SHOULD win. However, Anakin is too arrogant while Vader is more calm-minded and has experience slaying Jedi.

Anakin is much faster and in better shape, he'd definately win in a saber fight. However, vader is likely slightly stronegr with the Force, but not that much stronger, I go with Anakin, cause I also doubt that vader could beat Tyranus in a fight.

In a saber fight? Makashi would suck to the highest degree against Vader. He uses a form V variant, has ridiculous physical strength to counter Makashi, and, the light swings from Makashi most likely couldn't penetrate Vaders armor.

Light swings of Makashi? He choped off Anakin's arm, even if it took several hits Tyranus is definately stronger than OT Vader with a lightsaber.

they never showed OT vaders real power, the shien form of lightsaber combat is a very aggresive form and can beat makashi strength to strength and yet OT vader uses that form with one hand because he has skill and he has incredible strength which rivals anakin