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Darth Sion vs Darth Sidious

Setting: Flat Hard Surface

Who'll win?

Sion as long as Sion wants to live

Force drain, fight over.

Or more easily, Sidious sits down and has tea while chucking Sion around the room till he loses the will to live

yes, sion is suicidal all the time! so sidious,
only jokin, i say sion, but thats me

Sidious.

Sion's only weakness seems to be his connection with Kreia.

The fight won't get anywhere. Sion has the will to hold his body together, ie., the person at the medical bay on board the Republic flagship stated that his body should have fallen apart long before.

Sidious would normally be more powerful, however Sion won't be killed. At some point, Sidious would wear away at his reserves, and then Sion would strike.

However, Sidious could just force drain him. Or use Morichro. He could probably just force crush his vital organs underneath his body - that'd work.

He's been "killed" in plenty of duels, but he didn't die. Normal means won't work on him either. Same goes for anyone who can uses essence transfer, like Sidious.

And if you take the cut content in consideration,then Sion is technically a Wound in the Force against Nihilus. So he can't be drained at all,especially by Nihilus' god-like drain.

As the game stands if you were to cut Sion off from the Force he would die. You could in theory drain him or throw a ysalamiri at him. So yeah, as the game stands, Nihilus could probably eat him, which is why he was in charge, but with the cut content being considered as the game was meant to be, I would say that Sion is a Wound that Nihilus cannot consume.

...Whaaat? Sidious stomps in his sleep.

No words to describe how badly Sion dies

Sidious while laughing.

Originally posted by carthage
No words to describe how badly Sion dies


You know that Sion can't die right?

If Sion can be defeated? Yes
If Sion can be killed? No

If you understand through "defeat",defeated=Sidious pawns
If you understand through "defeat",killed=Sion stomps

Sidious decapitates him or tears him apart with TK, literally. Sion hasn't shown the capacity to regeneration from limb loss and torn limb from limb as his body parts go everywhere.

Originally posted by carthage
No words to describe how badly Sion dies

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Sidious decapitates him or tears him apart with TK, literally. Sion hasn't shown the capacity to regeneration from limb loss and torn limb from limb as his body parts go everywhere.

With the exception you can't prove neither that he "cannot" reunite his parts back.

In game you can fry him with lightning,push him,crush him,but nothing happens. He has literally the power to hold his body to not fall apart,and as the pain and affliction are more and more intense,he can hold his body together even better.

Sidious after all will exhaust himself and Sion will open the opportunity to strike down Sidious.

Originally posted by Blax XXX
However, Sidious could just force drain him. Or use Morichro. He could probably just force crush his vital organs underneath his body - that'd work.

His body is "dead",Sidious can't crush anything to him.

Even Sion's brain isn't working anymore,it had decayed inside into his skull. Nothing can kill Sion,but Sion.

Originally posted by Mr Krieger
Sion as long as Sion wants to live

Originally posted by zephiel7
Sion's only weakness seems to be his connection with Kreia.

The fight won't get anywhere. Sion has the will to hold his body together, ie., the person at the medical bay on board the Republic flagship stated that his body should have fallen apart long before.

Sidious would normally be more powerful, however Sion won't be killed. At some point, Sidious would wear away at his reserves, and then Sion would strike.

True!!!

Give the man a Sith cookiee!!!

OMG, the quadruple post is not needed.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
His body is "dead",Sidious can't crush anything to him.

Even Sion's brain isn't working anymore,it had decayed inside into his skull. Nothing can kill Sion,but Sion. Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
True!!!

Give the man a Sith cookiee!!! If you click the "Quick Quote" icon, you can have multiple quotes in 1 post.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
With the exception you can't prove neither that he "cannot" reunite his parts back.

In game you can fry him with lightning,push him,crush him,but nothing happens. He has literally the power to hold his body to not fall apart,and as the pain and affliction are more and more intense,he can hold his body together even better.

Sidious after all will exhaust himself and Sion will open the opportunity to strike down Sidious.

Ok but see that's just game mechanics, he hasn't shown surviving something like decapitation....you described things that aren't decapitation or limb loss. Yeah he can only his body together, but not against someone who is far more powerful than he, who can just tear through his defenses.

You can't just say he'll survive anything, because he hasn't shown that capacity. Sure he can survive being Force Drained, Pushed, stabbed and so on. But there isn't anything to suggest, he survives decapitation, it doesn't matter if he holds himself together, he still is able to be struck down.

But I don't see how Sion can be killed through normal means?

First of all,can you please send me the source where it states that Sidious mastered all 7 forms of lightsabers?

And we have a few infos about him,but still are enough what we have.

"Checking the survivor from the Sith vessel - I'm not sure whether he's alive or dead, or what's even keeping him together. His flesh is cracked and scarred, and I'm registering several thousand fractures in his skeleton, as if each bone was repeatedly splintered over time... then put back together. Judging from the scar tissue, I believe these wounds took place before his death. If so, he must have been in constant pain. I have no idea what's been keeping him together."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

So even if Sidious manages to "disarm" him,he can pick up his hand and attach it back,similar to a zombie.

Another explanation of Sion's ability to hold his decaying body together:

As another example, Darth Sion embodies the unbeatable enemy. He's a Sith so vile that he channels his own anger through the Force to keep himself alive even though he should be dead. Thanks to his intense anger and pain, he literally holds his decaying body together through the dark side of the Force.

Source: Power Beyond Belief: Using Ultra-Powerful Sith Lords in Saga Edition

Even so... The time should have tear apart Sion's body,and it didn't,this shows us that Sion can really keep his flesh united.

Also he uses Hibernation Trance to a high level(when that female said he was dead,but he was "alive",and he is able to ambush his enemies,and Sidious even if he zaps him,or push him. Sion can take advantage of Sidious' popular overconfidence and strike him down.

Sion is immune to Force Fear, Horror and Insanity,likely Sidious won't be able to bend his will.

Sion knows Force Slow is a power that slows down the movements and perceptions of an enemy.

Sion knows Force Slow that allows him to slow down the movements and perceptions of an enemy,thus Sidious won't be "flickering in and out of existance".

Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever, and is heir to the wealth of knowledge that the Banite Sith have amassed over a millennia. Are you implying that Sidious doesn't have means of killing Sion that are not "normal"?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever, and is heir to the wealth of knowledge that the Banite Sith have amassed over a millennia. Are you implying that Sidious doesn't have means of killing Sion that are not "normal"?

Yeah "Banite Sith"...

But Sion,Nihilus,Traya,Vitiate or Exar Kun don't even belong to that line of "shadowy" Sith,or Bane's Sith better said.

Also it states us,that Sidious is the strongest Sith of the Banite Order,and once more, Sion,Exar Kun,Traya,Nihilus or Vitiate do not even belong to that Sith line...

I am pretty sure Bane never heard of Sion from Darth Revan's holocron(nor that Revan came in direct contact with the reborn Sion as a Sith and learn his technique),cause if he did,then he wouldn't have needed the Transfer Essence,and he could have become a thing like Sion and never die of "old age".

It is clear Sidious has no knowledge of Sion's quasi-immortality from the Banite himself,or the other Banite Lords.

You are kind of overrating too much Sidious from this quote:

"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure."
--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

It says us, "it is just believed", like "rumored" or "speculated"... And that's not a fact,but an assumption,and everyone is entitled to believe "yes" or "no".

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
You are kind of overrating too much Sidious from this quote:

"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure."
--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

It says us, "it is just believed", like "rumored" or "speculated"... And that's not a fact,but an assumption,and everyone is entitled to believe "yes" or "no".

Funny how almost all your arguments are also mere speculations.

Sion tried to overwhelm Meetra, a superior force user with his immortality. Howver, he was overwhelmed by Meetra's superior power in the end. Sidious is much stronger than Meetra in every way and he would have an easier time dealing with Sion.

Also, there's the fact the Rule of 2 is just flat out better Sith Philosophy then screwing around with magic and swords ever was. Time and technology advance, ya know.

People are seriously arguing Sion can win? Wow.

Originally posted by Sinious
Funny how almost all your arguments are also mere speculations.

Sion tried to overwhelm Meetra, a superior force user with his immortality. Howver, he was overwhelmed by Meetra's superior power in the end. Sidious is much stronger than Meetra in every way and he would have an easier time dealing with Sion.

First of all(if you go by canon,then the Exile is a female) and Sion was "defeated" by Meetra Surik,not because he was bad with a lightsaber,but because he fell in love with her,for him she was beautiful,but he knew that would mean his end,but he still had some feelings in his own quirky Sith ways for Meetra Surik,that's why he lost,of course as a major factor.

And you should not underestimate Meetra either,because she can learn a lightsaber form after a few seconds,she is naturally gifted.

Also being more powerful doesn't make you the winner one. Being more powerful than someone is not always the same as being as able to kill them. Powerful people can still make mistakes and get killed by those who are fundamentally weaker than them.

NOTE: AS YOU MAKE YOUR ARGUMENTS BASED ON FACTS,GIVE ME THEN THE SOURCE/OR/ SOURCES WHERE IT/ARE STATES/STATE THAT SIDIOUS MASTERED ALL THE SEVEN LIGHTSABER FORMS.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Also, there's the fact the Rule of 2 is just flat out better Sith Philosophy then screwing around with magic and swords ever was. Time and technology advance, ya know.

The Rule of Two is not the same as the Sith code. The code has been followed by countless iterations of Sith who never prescribed to Bane's understanding of the Sith.

The Rule of Two dates to Sorzus Syn in 6900 BBY, not Darth Bane. He may have renewed the focus on it, but there are multiple canonical mentions/uses of the code predating that.

The Rule of Two was more of a suggestion anyway, Palpatine ignored it to teach Maul as his apprentice even when he was still Plagueis' appentice (and that's leaving out the many non-Sith Darksiders that served him), and Vader ignored it to teach Starkiller and Lumiya.

We never saw as much of the other 1000 years of Sith, after Bane and before Plagueis, but it certainly seems like the Rule of Two was more theory than practice.
Bane himself defied it. He was looking at a new apprentice because he decided Zannah wasn't worthy anymore. You can't have a third Sith just because you don't like the second one anymore and still call it the Rule of Two!!! The real idea behind it was just centralized power. No more legions of Sith trudging through ground battle with the Jedi. That's what he wanted to stop.

The "Rule of Two" was also far more pragmatic towards the Sith being an underground organization instead of having a star-spanning Empire.

A "Rule of Two" Sith could never have held together the vast empires that the Sith held and fought the Republic with, and sure enough when Palpatine created a new Sith Empire (in all but name), he was sure to have many Force-using minions working for him: the Inquisitors, the Dark Side Adepts, the Prophets of the Dark Side, the Emperor's Hands, and so on, with only the token nod to the Rule of Two in having Vader as his only official Sith Apprentice. . . and Vader going on to have two Apprentices of his own during that time (and through Lumiya, the Sith survived even after the death of both Vader and Sidious)

"Darth Sidious was also a Sith swordmaster, being one of the very few who was the equal of Yoda or Mace Windu. As a master of all the seven lightsaber forms, all their stances and techniques and being capable of using each form equally effective ambidextrously, he was the greatest and most skilled Sith swordmaster."

- Wookieepedia, mother f***er

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
First of all(if you go by canon,then the Exile is a female) and Sion was "defeated" by Meetra Surik,not because he was bad with a lightsaber,but because he fell in love with her,for him she was beautiful,but he knew that would mean his end,but he still had some feelings in his own quirky Sith ways for Meetra Surik,that's why he lost,of course as a major factor.

And you should not underestimate Meetra either,because she can learn a lightsaber form after a few seconds,she is naturally gifted.

Also being more powerful doesn't make you the winner one. Being more powerful than someone is not always the same as being as able to kill them. Powerful people can still make mistakes and get killed by those who are fundamentally weaker than them.

NOTE: AS YOU MAKE YOUR ARGUMENTS BASED ON FACTS,GIVE ME THEN THE SOURCE/OR/ SOURCES WHERE IT/ARE STATES/STATE THAT SIDIOUS MASTERED ALL THE SEVEN LIGHTSABER FORMS.

You have to be kidding me.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
You have to be kidding me.

Look here:


"It is not mercy. What awaits you will weaken you. She will break you, as she did me, and you will no long know yourself."


"You and her are alike... yet different, in all the ways that matter. And I hate you as I hate her. I hate you because you crawl within my head as she does, but your presence holds not thoughts, no teachings, you are just... there, unspoken. I hate you because you are beautiful to me. And in that weakness lies death. Perhaps in that weakness is the death of my master, as well."

So it is clear that Sion had feelings for her.

As for the statement that she is able to learn quickly a lightsaber form,that's true in fact,I will throw you a statement right now:

Master Zez-Kai Ell is impressed with how quickly the Exile learns the Lightsaber/Force Form taught to her by him, and by just watching:

"Perhaps exile has been good to you indeed - it has certainly not dulled your instincts, nor the speed at which you learn."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Master Kavar is impressed with how quickly the Exile masters the Lightsaber/Force form taught to her by him, and by just watching:

"Excellent! I'm impressed with how quickly you've mastered this form. I always knew you were gifted."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Master Vrook is impressed with how quickly the Exile learns the Lightsaber/Force form taught to her by him, and by just watching:

"Hmmm... I don't know how you learnt that so quickly. Still, your form is sloppy. Keep practicing to tighten it up, and you'll be fine."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

But let's not involve too much the Exile as already she is.

Well, if he insist on trying to troll by claiming Sion has a chance, let him. Doesn't change the fact Sion hasn't a prayer and never did.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Well, if he insist on trying to troll by claiming Sion has a chance, let him. Doesn't change the fact Sion hasn't a prayer and never did.

I didn't say that Sion is more powerful,I said that he's unkillable,and Sidious it isn't unkillable as Sion is.

Despite that he had feelings for her,he still returned from certain deaths and if Sion didn't let himself to be broken,the Exile would have failed.

Also the claim that only because of the dark side nexuses Sion is able to hold his body intact and it is unbeatable,it is erronated,Malachor V it isn't a dark side nexus anymore.

When dealing with such abominations as Sion or Nihilus,you have to understand that power itself it is not a winning ticket... Cause this guys are anything but "normal".

And we're trying to say 'unkillable' is a relative term.

In general, immortality is of terrible power...but something more terrible still can overcome it. Sidious is that 'more terrible still', as the trump card of Sith.

(in a similar way, GM Luke is simply powerful enough to shut off the immortality)

Originally posted by Trocity
"Darth Sidious was also a Sith swordmaster, being one of the very few who was the equal of Yoda or Mace Windu. As a master of all the seven lightsaber forms, all their stances and techniques and being capable of using each form equally effective ambidextrously, he was the greatest and most skilled Sith swordmaster."

- Wookieepedia, mother f***er

Wookieepedia is 75% or 85% full of errors. The one who owns Wookieepedia claims that he has a lot of gaps and holes in his pages,he said he has a great loss of informations.

Also I didn't use swear words against you!!!

Originally posted by Angelalex242
And we're trying to say 'unkillable' is a relative term.

In general, immortality is of terrible power...but something more terrible still can overcome it. Sidious is that 'more terrible still', as the trump card of Sith.

(in a similar way, GM Luke is simply powerful enough to shut off the immortality)

Excuse me,how can "unkillable" have relative terms? Power on the other hand it does.

And one cannot use Transfer Essence when he/she was killed,that's a fact. Everyone who dies, goes into the Void(darksiders)

And I am aware that Sidious escaped the Chaos dimension,however it was stated that it is not "unbreachable".

Sheev needs to rely on his manipulation skills to win, so 6.10 Sion.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
First of all(if you go by canon,then the Exile is a female) and Sion was "defeated" by Meetra Surik,not because he was bad with a lightsaber,but because he fell in love with her,for him she was beautiful,but he knew that would mean his end,but he still had some feelings in his own quirky Sith ways for Meetra Surik,that's why he lost,of course as a major factor.

And you should not underestimate Meetra either,because she can learn a lightsaber form after a few seconds,she is naturally gifted.

Also being more powerful doesn't make you the winner one. Being more powerful than someone is not always the same as being as able to kill them. Powerful people can still make mistakes and get killed by those who are fundamentally weaker than them.

NOTE: AS YOU MAKE YOUR ARGUMENTS BASED ON FACTS,GIVE ME THEN THE SOURCE/OR/ SOURCES WHERE IT/ARE STATES/STATE THAT SIDIOUS MASTERED ALL THE SEVEN LIGHTSABER FORMS. Holy shit I didn't see this