Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Welcome to the Finals Gents!

Good luck to all, and let's have a good fight.

1. Prep = 30 seconds, in a neutral environment apart from the battlefield.

2. Anything that is within the tourney rules is acceptable for your prep time, but keep in mind the time restrainst.

3. If you don't know the rules, read them! The first person to make 7 battle-related posts on Day 1, then complain to me will be flogged....or at least get a PM from me with a " " smilie and a link to the rules. They've been established for weeks. And that thread has been pinned for the past week. There's no excuse for not knowing them.

4. Observers are asked to NOT post in this thread unless it is a question directly related to the battle.

5. Keep anything extraneous in the discussion thread. Please help me keep this battle as efficient as possible.

6. Judges: wait a while to vote. And post your vote, possibly with a (brief) explanation. Don't vote in the poll Observers: Feel free to vote in the poll, but I'd encourage you to wait as well.

7. Help me out with all of this. If something needs edited out, let me know...I can't catch everything.

....

***New Rules***
8. Observers/judges are allowed to ask clarifying questions. Anything that could be considered a for-or-against argument should be kept to themselves however. They can use whatever opinions you want to decide, but they opinions should remain to themselves. Leave the debating to the participants.

9. Non-official posts should NOT happen. If you have to answer a clarifying question from a judge or observer, briefly deal with it in 1 of your 9 posts. Thank you.


.............


Grey Fox / Psyquis

vs.

Leonidas / TheKahn


Leo/Kahn
Silver Surfer (Team)
G.L. Hal Jordan (Kahn)
Maxima

GF/Psyquis
Cyborg Superman (GF)
Thor (Team)
Ray II (Psyquis)


Judges: Judges will be announced in a day or two.

Battle Location: An abandoned Earth. Nothing fancy for the finals, just our regular old planet. Teams start on opposite sides of Ireland.

Have fun and congrats to the two teams who have made it this far.

One additional note:

I set the poll for 6 days, which means it will close around 5:45 EST next Saturday. To avoid confusion like we almost had last match, as soon as the poll closes itself, it is closed to voting. Participants will have until the end of Saturday to post strategies, but observers who wish to vote will be asked to doso prior to Saturday evening.

Additionally, the poll will be opened for voting sometime Tuesday.

Wow I think I saw this somewhere else aswell. Can I be a judge ? I know I'm new but not to these type of things.

...

...

...

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I dont want to be a dick, Digi but...

I edited everything out for reasons of fairness.

Anyway Yahman, it wasn't me making those assertions. I was posting on behalf of Leo and Kahn because they PM'd me their opening strategy. The words were Kahn's.

And beyond that, you're more than welcome to not believe anything either team argues for or against. And once the poll opens (Tuesday) you can vote accordingly based on your opinions. In the meantime, this is a tournament and they're welcome to attempt any strategy they think is possible (within tourney rules and limits).

I thought pre-crisis feats weren't valid.....

Originally posted by Scoobless
I thought pre-crisis feats weren't valid..... Thats what they told us

The poll is now open

Well that's not very fair, no debate has started and one team has 4 votes, I'm saving mine.

Originally posted by bigbran
Well that's not very fair, no debate has started and one team has 4 votes, I'm saving mine.

Right, but I annoucned that I'd be starting the poll Tuesday when I opened the match, so it's GF and Psy's fault for not having an argument up by now (they've been online, so I'm assuming it's not a time issue).

The poll should only open after the two teams post.

Like ^he said The Ray makes a permanent skin tight yellow force field around all his teamates that automatically bends light. Thus making his teammates invisible.

At which time the 30 seconds should be up.
Now if my Kryptonian transformation goes well (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) then I go to make short work of Hal.

I'm not entirely certain how strong the Ray would be as a Kryptonian but since he is partially made up of solar energy then I would have to tell you that he's going to be fully charged and ready to go right off the bat. That's when I close the distance against Hal.

As far as Hal turning Kryptonian. More power to ya. I hope you succeed. I'll just leach all that excess solar energy right out of ya, and don't worry about trying to defend yourself from that maneuver. Solar energy is my bag baby. I'll have you back to a powerless human in no time.

Which brings up an interesting point. Rings can be broken. In the event that Thor's little gravitational squish doesn't work; I'm going to close the gap on you real quick and break the ring in your bare hands. Leaving you totally helpless. If you try to avoid I wish you luck because I'll be moving speed of light fast and I'm invisible. I'm certain you'll have trouble avoiding me.

Well, after that I punch Hal or blast him and he's done. Now on to more important matters.

Maxima is getting kicked around a bit by Cyborg but I decide to lend a helping hand. Luckily I'm Kryptonian and therefore mostly resistant to tp. So that would be Cyborg Superman + The Ray/Kryptonian = 1 Dead Maxima.

Afterwards we swarm Silver Surfer (if he's not already down) and that's game. We win.

None of your links are working

non-official (sorry digi):

can you try and get the scans working, gf? we would like to see them before we reply.

If he wants to repost the same post with working scans or simply the scans themselves, it doesn't have to count toward one of his posts (unless the opposing side objects).

no problem. i would just like to SEE the scans . . .

Here they are in chronological order. Sorry about the scan malfunction.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y1...d/borgflesh.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y1...ind/Cyborg2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y1...gchangeform.jpg
http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?...blast0043xd.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?...nity23085rc.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?i...nity23166qn.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?i...nity23179av.jpg

That should be all of them. Hope they work this time.

NON-OFFICIAL POST:

Originally posted by Psyquis52
Here they are in chronological order. Sorry about the scan malfunction.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y1...d/borgflesh.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y1...ind/Cyborg2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y1...gchangeform.jpg
http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?...blast0043xd.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?...nity23085rc.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?i...nity23166qn.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?i...nity23179av.jpg

That should be all of them. Hope they work this time.

sorry, psy, STILL no go . . .

@#$%!!!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/borgflesh.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/Cyborg2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/cyborgchangeform.jpg
http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blast0043xd.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warlockinfinity23085rc.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warlockinfinity23166qn.jpg
http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warlockinfinity23179av.jpg

Try this again

NON-OFFICIAL POST:

aahhhh, much better. muchos gracias.

First of all let me begin by explaining all the mistakes GF and Psyquis52 have made now that they have finally decided to join in the debate.


To begin with, the idea that Cyborg Superman can alter the DNA of Ray and turn him into a Kryptonian is laughable. He has never shown the ability to alter another beings DNA at all much less do so with no equipment and in a mere 30 seconds. There is absolutely nothing inherent in Cyborg's powerset that would lead any to even assume such a thing would be possible for him to accomplish on his own and they can't provide a scan of him doing anything similar.

What is really telling is how this very concept of changing Ray's DNA shows their lack of knowledge of their own characters. Not only is it not possible for Cyborg to do this, but even if you assume he could then all he will have done is actually render Ray powerless. Let me explain a little bit about Ray Terrill and his powers. You see Ray's father, Lanford "Happy" Terrill, was exposed to a genetic light bomb by a group called RONOL in the hopes that his offspring (ie the recipients of his mutated DNA) would posses powers and be able to communicate with a light entity that was believed to be threatening the world.

Why is this important? Well if GF and Psyquis turned his mutated human DNA to Kryptonian DNA, then all they would have is a powerless kryptonian. All of Ray's unique powers would be lost in along with his original DNA. doh So even if they could do this (which they can't) it would end up in essence depowering one of their own characters!




The next example of our opponents misusing their team due to lack of knowledge of their own characters is the idea that Cyborg can make himself a body out of Uru. Grey Fox must be confusing the character he drafted with Absorbing Man as that is not how Cyborg's powers work. Now he might be able to make his body out of Uru if he had a sufficient amount of it to inhabit and he could deal with it's magic nature (not that he's ever done anything like that mind you) but merely touching it will do nothing for him. The only source of Uru he has access to is Mjolnir and I highly doubt Cyborg can override Odin's enchantments or the magic that went into it's creation. Thus Cyborg is stuck in his Kryptonian-alloy body, not that it matters much as he will be soon weakened by K-nit radiation and taken down.
http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=knitedi7.jpg

Also it seems that Grey Fox forgot that multiple bodies for Cyborg was banned when they drafted him. How convenient.





And as for the yellow "weakness" GF mentions, I guess Fox hasn't been keeping up with his Green Lantern comics. I believe Geoff Johns has said it really isn't a weakness any more. Hell, in Green Lantern Corps: Recharge #4 we can see that even new GL recruits can handle the collor yellow except when they are experiencing panic or fear as seen with Soranik Natu. Needless to say it isn't an issue for Hal or any of our GL as they all have his expierence. But perhaps I should just let Hal explain it:
http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dc52week13015pl1.jpg




Next up is this idiotic gravity attack. Not only has Thor never shown the fine degree of control or the shear force of gravity they are claiming but even it he could, it wouldn't effect our team in the slightest.

A rookie GL (Just that day received the ring) casually seals a BLACK HOLE.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

Here a single Green Lantern dives into and seals a SUPER MASSIVE black hole that threatened to destroy an entire "space sector" (or 1/3600 of the Universe) and despite the tremendous gravity he can still move, his ring can still function, and his ring takes no damage.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl151_23_glc.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl151_24_glc.jpg

And keep in mind "Hal" just didn't simply stamp on his ring to crush it. At he had just defeated several Green Lanterns and possesed multiple GL rings at the time. And even then he was only able to crush it when he took it off his hands and it didn't have any protective shield around it. But a rather weak "gravity" attack isn't going to damage a GL ring while it is being used and protected by it's own shield.








Now I know there have been a few questions as to Hal's ability to alter DNA. So I'd like to take the time and clear that point up. First as we can see here he has no problem is changing his DNA (and entire body) into a robot and of course he later changes his inorganic body back to that of a normal human body with normal human DNA:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7848ee1e.jpg

Next we see Hal turning his own body (DNA included), Superman's, and other's into pure light energy. And of course he later changes that light energy back into Human and Kryptonian bodies along with their respective DNA.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/JLA042_20.jpg

How about something new? Here a sleeping Hal turns his human friend, Tom Kalmaku, into a seagull compelet with seagull DNA (and again Hal later changes the poor guy back to his human body with it's human DNA):
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/ca9d1208.jpg

And when Tom is disguised as Hal by Hal, Hector Hammond (Pre-transformation) gains the Faux-Hal's ring and devolves him into an ape. Hal later restores him to his normal form (ie turn his ape DNA back to Tom's original Human DNA)
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c16cba8c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/863f09f9.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/d80631bd.jpg

Changing being from one species to another is nothing new to Green Lanterns and Hal in particular. Give the fact that he has altered Superman's body several times there no reason he couldn't change his body into a Kryptonian as easily as he turned Tom into a seagull or Hector turned Tom into an ape.


Oh, and invisibility doesn't really work on Green Lanterns
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/5599b482.jpg









Lastly as to Hal's matchup with Ray. Now we know that Ray isn't going to be a Kryptonian (and if he were he'd actually lose all of his origional powers) but he will be matching up against a fully sundipped, Kryptonian Hal who has multiple Green Lantern rings. Let us look at their own bio of Ray to get a idea of his powers:

Once his body absorbs sunlight, he can direct the energy to rearrange molecules into any form, matter or energy. Storing sunlight, he can even function in darkness for a limited amount of time. The only limitations to this ability lie in his capacity for concentration and the duration of his energy expulsion.

Now all he can control is the sunlight he as absorbed into his body so the idea that he could possibly control the emerald energy of a Green Lantern ring or that he can control the solar energy Hal's rings are directly feeding into Hal's own body is laughable. Besides that there is no attack Ray could possibly subject Hal to that would have the slightest chance of working. Hal shield has protected him from the light, heat, radiation, and kinetic energy from a super nova before and there is no evidence Ray can come anywhere close to that level of power. The caption even says the energy being released by the super nova in one second is as much as the sun releases in 60 YEARS and yet Hal handels it just fine.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/JLA042_20.jpg

So if Ray is in energy form then a little "anti-energy" takes care of him real quick and if he still human then he dead just as quick. There is no evidence Ray has any kind of enhansed durability in his human form and a simply physical attack from the ring would be enough to kill him. Hell, just a punch from "normal" Hal would do it (not to mention a sundipped kryptonian Hal). Hal has taken down the entire JLA, including Superman, by himself:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a46a7e79.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/73655e8c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/45b338c3.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/f2e10a70.jpg

And here he K.O. Mongul with one hit despite having a crushed arm and knee. Remember that Mongul is a Superman-level character in terms of strength and durability and he later went on in this issue to take on Kyle and Superman at the same time.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/b662ec0c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7bd5fcaa.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/efcbd6ea.jpg

Ray is just outmatched. He can't turn into his highly durable energy form or Hal can easily kill him and he can't stay human or, once again, Hal can easily kill him.

Okay. Here we go.

Defense:
1.) Invisibility does not make us untraceable. This is true. So in concept SS can sense where we are and Maxima can probe for our thoughts. However, this does put something of a hamper on your theory of teleporting behind us; because A. we will be attack you very quickly and B. you have to do a fast scan to find us. Now in your showings of SS and Maxima scanning to find people it didn't appear that they were doing it all that fast. In fact I dare say it is anything but instantaneous, therefore before your people know what's happening my team will be on you and aggressively attacking your team. And yes my team can move fast enough to do that. Enough if you do teleport it's another matter of you not being able to see us and us coming right after you immediately.

2.) *Sigh* Your bio of Ray is rather incomplete. No suprise seeing as I can't seem to find a complete bio of the Ray anywhere on the net. The uses more than just sunlight. Now just the other day I was looking at the final battle against Parallax. During that fight there was a plethora of energy absorbers present that were trying to weaken Parallax for the final blow. One of said absorbers was the Ray and he stated that he was capable of absorbing all the light. Therefore, yes I will be feeding off of any constructs or energy beams you create because the ring does emit light. Now that doesn't give me control over the ring or it's constructs and it doesn't dissassemble them either; but it does feed me.

3.) I didn't see a single valid refute to our claim that Thor would be able to control the gravitational fields around you. He was able to target a single Skrull I'm pretty sure that he will be able to direct it on you three. There's no reason why it has to specifically attack your hands. It can just as easily assault your entire bodies. This would act as a distraction if nothing else which makes you vulnerable to our next assault. A direct physical attack.

4.) I noticed the words fear and panic. These are two emotions that can easily be generated by a set of invisible foes of immense power. Shields will definately be effective against Maxima and SS since they are mostly new to the rings. Not that the rings will help them anyway because even if they do share in Hal's knowledge of the ring they are still rookies and will not have the proper experience to properly wield them. They also will have to do without Hal's willpower. These would be weaker willed people. The ring is a Cracker Jack toy in their hands.

5.) DNA manipulation. I think you missed the sub-text there. Perhaps we should be more blunt and leave nothing to the imagination. Instead of having a mutated human's DNA I have a similarly mutated Kryptonian DNA. I don't know if that stands under arguing for my partner or me. If it falls under my partner please edit this out Digi, and I apologize. I don't intend to exasperate my opponents by bending or breaking any rules.

6.) NO SUNDIPPING. Whatsoever. You guys will be the first to lose whatever solar energy you have on hand. I think you missed the part where I said, "That's my specialty." And don't tell me the shields will maintain it because like I said, "If light can get in, so can I." You will not have access to any solar energy. Since my body is partially consisting of solar energy then my body acts as an anchor for said energies making it even easier for me to consume the excess energies in the battlefield. Aside from my partner, Cyborg, and myself nobody will be walking around as super-charged Kryptonians.

Offensive:
1.) I would like to see how effective Hal is going to be when he's suffering from Hypothermia. Because that's what he'll be going through when the Ray drains him of his body heat. I'm certain it would leave you very vulnerable indeed. Don't worry though. I'll make it quick and after your body has been drained of enough heat I'll assualt you with some physical attacks and since your body is shaking too bad to do much I guess you'll just have to take it. As far as your ring is concerned I know it will automatically try to defend you...that's why I'll keep the pressure on. Hal won't know what's happening until it's too late.

2. Thor is very fast indeed and won't waste anytime zooming at SS and knocking him off balance. It's bad enough trying to fight a Thor you can see but with him invisible SS won't know how to defend himself leaving him vulnerable for a barrage of physical attacks from Thor. With no real way to defend himself SS will fall quickly to the might of the Thunder God!

In conclusion I'd like to say what an honor it is to fight such intelectually gifted individuals as yourself and I look forward to your rebuttal. Good luck gentlemen. ;\

Originally posted by Psyquis52

Defense:
1.) Invisibility does not make us untraceable. This is true......

Where to begin? Firstly, the idea that your team is going to effectively "speedblitz" a team containing a GL Silver Surfer (GL ring + cosmic awarness), a GL Maxima (GL ring + top teir telepathy), and a Kryptonian Hal (GL ring + kryptonian senses) is laughable.

You must remember that the teams start out on opposite sides of Ireland and from the best maps I could find this means that we will be at about 200 miles from one another. At such vast distance the only character on your team that could possibly even attempt to find our team is Cyborg Superman, so it's just too bad that you guys had him focused soley on try to alter Ray's DNA and illegally split up his consciousness. Perhaps you should have thought about how you are actually going to locate our team before claiming you'd get the first shot in.


And as for the time it takes the Surfer to conduct a scan, here is conducts a thorough scan of an ENTIRE PLANET before Dr. Strange could even finish his sentence.
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9962/ssscanspeedra8.png
Is that fast enough?
Now remember he will be aided by a GL ring in this fight.

That means GL Surfer and GL Maxima can detect your team and they can all use their GL rings to cancle the invisibility. Once that happens our team can continue with their plan.






Originally posted by Psyquis52

2.) *Sigh* Your bio of Ray is rather incomplete....


It isn't "my" bio. It's the one that is avaliable one the first page of the round along with all the other "official" bios used in this tourney.

So...now you claim Ray can manipulate/absorb Green Lantern energy but can't provide any scans or even a bio to back up that claim? Sorry but your conjecture and unsubstantiated claims just won't cut it. It doesn't matter why YOU think Ray was in the fight (other than the obvious reason that he's a good guy and they were all trying to fight a bad guy). So by all means if Ray can manipulate/absorb the unique emerald energy from a GL ring, despite the fact that the bio provided only stated he can manipulate SOLAR energy, then it's up to you to actually prove it.


This is rather pointless as Hal can still easily speedblitz Ray (thanks to his Kryptonian physiology) and either physically k.o. him if he's in his human body or use his "anti-energy" attack against him if he is pure energy.


But I'd hate to leave any ambiguity in the matter, so let us look at some actual scans:
Ray having his sunshine manipulated by Dr. Light in a rather painful manner
http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rayss9.jpg
And here Hal is able to take control over one of Dr. Light's light constructs.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Green_Lantern-SA-033-13.jpg



Originally posted by Psyquis52

3.) I didn't see a single valid refute to our claim that Thor would be able to control the gravitational fields around you...

In the scan you are using to "prove" Thor can manipulate gravity, the word GRAVITY never appears. The Super-Skrull says it is a
"force that he cannot begin to comprehend." I'd wager a being from a scientifically advanced, space faring race could "comprehend" gravity.
http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blast0043xd.jpg

As Leo has explained, Thor will be mind raped by Maxima at the beginingg of the fight but more to the point I've shown how even rookie GLs can manipulate and navigate through gravity fields MUCH greater than ANYTHING Thor can ever hope to produce (not that you've proven he can anyway).
Black hole's gravity >>>>>>>>>>>than Thor's "blasts" that could only lift up a single Skrull.

That being the case, we need to address the idea that physical attacks will actually harm our team. Not only does every member of our team have a GL ring that is able to provide an legendary levels of protection against physical attacks, but every member of our team has at least Superman-level durability in their own right. And they will be matching up against a mentally crippled Thor, a Cyborg Superman weakened by kryptonite, and a character with human durability.



Originally posted by Psyquis52

4.) I noticed the words fear and panic....

Will that is what you get for just reading two words in a single post and not keeping the other details of the fight in mind. The Surfer and Maxima will have the advantage having all of Hal's knowledge/experience of being a Green Lantern and his memories/aspects of his personality that give him such a strong will. That was kind of the point of sharing Hal's memories.

This means that will be nearly as good at using the ring as Hal is as they will have Hal's will backing up their already considerable willpower. Leo has shown scans of Maxima mentally overpowering the wills of top tier DC characters and here we see the Silver Surfer resisiting an attack from Moon Dragon with the Mind Gem though sheer willpower:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Infinity_Crusade03-34.jpg



And even rookie Green Lanterns can amazing things with a ring:

Rookie Hal (he just got the ring) survives a nuclear explosion
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9863/emeralddawn00321rougher8ak.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/4952/emeralddawn00322rougher7zi.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9159/greenlanternemeralddawn04014zn.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/1280/greenlanternemeralddawn04022ta.jpg

A rookie GL seals up an bridge to the Anti-Matter universe bursting forth with Anti-Matter.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl164_24_glc.jpg

A rookie GL (Just that day received the ring) casually seals a BLACK HOLE.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

A man who JUST got the GL ring uses the ring to seal up a number of monsters rampaging a settlement and send them to a distant galaxy.
http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=talesofglcorpsannual02244ga.jpg








Originally posted by Psyquis52

5.) DNA manipulation.....


So let me get this straight.....Cyborg Superman is going to analize the 25,000 genes and 3x10^9 base pairs in human DNA, discover the particular mutation that grants Ray his powers, transmute the billions upon billions of strands of human DNA in Ray into Kryptonian DNA, then Cyborg is going to mutate Ray's new DNA with the exact same mutation he origionally had.......all in 30 seconds.....with no equipment......with no scans every showing Cyborg doing ANYTHING like that before......right?


Well gentlemen, all I can say is bullshit. This is one of the most far-fetched and unsuported conjecture I've ever seen. Logically extrapoliating unconventional attacks from a particular powerset is one thing, but this is....well I really don't know what to call this.


How exactly is Cyborg suppose to alter Ray's DNA in the first place? Using his Ice-breath?......his super-hearing?.....no, well how about his heat vision? A high intensity laser should be just the thing to easily alter a human's body into another species.........Waitaminute I know! You guys are going to have Cyborg use his strength to pound Ray into a pile of goo then rebuild him chromosome by chromosome in 30 seconds. No? Well then please tell me exactly how you are going to accomplish this. I really want to know.




Originally posted by Psyquis52

6.) NO SUNDIPPING. Whatsoever.....I think you missed the part where I said, "That's my specialty."....

You do realize that simply because you "say" something it isn't automatically fact, don't you? You actually haven't shown a scan of Ray doing anything, so your contention that he will be able to affect Hal's ring directly feeding him solar energy from over 200 miles away means nothing.

Any part of Ray's body that is composed of energy get's destoyed by Hal's anti-energy attack and the rest of his human body will easily be shattered by a single attack from Hal.




Originally posted by Psyquis52

Offensive:
1.) I would like to see how effective Hal is going to be when he's suffering from Hypothermia....

Scans of Ray draining anybody of body heat?
Keep in mind they haven't shown any evience that Ray can afftect a person's body much less one showing he can manipulate a person's body that is being protected by a GL personal shield.

....really....hypothermia...... against a Green Lantern who flies in space all the time......who now has a kryptonian body directly being fed solar energy by 10 rings.......wow.



Originally posted by Psyquis52

2. Thor is very fast indeed ...

Tell that to Mongoose.

Thanks to our superior scaning abilities, our team-wide teleporting abilities, and the fact that we start out a vast distance between each other then our team gets to decide the matchups. Leo already explained how Thor is being dealt with. Given our combination of GL rings (which can counter invisibility), cosmic awareness, and telepathy
we can easily see anything your team is trying and quickly counter it.

Originally posted by Psyquis52

In conclusion....Good luck gentlemen. ;\

euro sombrero2

Who are the other judges besides myself?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Who are the other judges besides myself?

It's been a problem...people have either said no or haven't PMd me back.

We have Mungi and you right now. I didn't want to have to judge, but I might include myself as well, and I have a couple other people to PM.

I'll judge !! LOL Nah I know I can't I'm to new, you can't be sure you can trust me.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It's been a problem...people have either said no or haven't PMd me back.

We have Mungi and you right now. I didn't want to have to judge, but I might include myself as well, and I have a couple other people to PM.

I'd be happy to judge.

*Non official post*

I HATE THIS FRIKKEN PC !!!!!

It's slow and shitty , and conked out on me yesterday. My uncle has WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to much crap on it and it slows it down like anything. Now If their are spelling mistakes in the next post forgive me , but this thing took me 2-3 hours to write (I type kinda slow , plus I get distracted fairly easily) so if my horrendous spelling mistakes cause your eyes to bleed don't sue me M'kay

*End N.O.P*

Post count:

Kahn: 2
Leo: 2
GF: 5
Psyquis: 3

Last post.

1.) My proof was plenty. In the exact same issue as Parallax's demise...The Ray states that he is capable of absorbing all the light energy that Parallax has produced. Also the DC Encyclopedia states clearly that he can absorb light, heat, and solar energy. You can either deal with that or whine. Your choice.

2.) This means that yes I can feed off of your GL ring and that I can suck the heat right out of Hal's body giving him Hypothermia. You're not going to be in any condition to fight. That also means that I can absorb all the solar energy, but you shouldn't have been able to refute that in the first place.

3.) Show me evidence of GL, Surfer, or Maxima dodging an invisible blow at high speeds and I'll believe that your tracking ability is valid.

4.) I can't show scans. Why? Because there aren't any online. Believe me. I've been looking for a long time and I can't find scans of the Ray either in his advantage or against. I would like to find something but I simply cannot find anything. I also can't make scans because this computer does not support a scanner. Why? Because that's how it is. Not everyone has all the gadgets. I gave you ample locations for said information. The only thing I'm unsure about is whether Parallax died in Emerald Twilight or in the second issue of Zero Hour. I can't remember which one I saw it in, but it is in one of those issues. Giving comic book numbers or actual locations of said information is just as valid.

5.) Hal falls. That's just how it's going to be. His body has no heat. He's not a super-powered Kryptonian. I don't care if he is a Kryptonian he isn't solar powered and he's freezing to death.

6.) Silver Surfer falls. Thor's might blows are both invisible and extremely fast. Enough close range assault and SS falls ring or not. He's at a severe disadvantage here.

7.) Teleportation is fine. If you guys want to teleport near us that's just fine because just because you know we're there doesn't mean you know what we're doing. I'd like to see you dodge a punch you can't see. Sides, if you teleport near us that saves us the time of looking for you. Your problem.

8.) Maxima falls. Even if you aren't convinced that my partner took care of her then she has to deal with the combined might of The Ray and Thor. What happens now is the Ray assaults her with a barrage of blasts to distract her while Thor closes the gap and knocks her block off.

I hope you guys had fun. I know I did and I look forward to facing you two again hopefully in the future.

Originally posted by Psyquis52
Last post.

1.) My proof was plenty. In the exact same issue as Parallax's demise...The Ray states that he is capable of absorbing all the light energy that Parallax has produced. Also the DC Encyclopedia states clearly that he can absorb light, heat, and solar energy. You can either deal with that or whine. Your choice.

2.) This means that yes I can feed off of your GL ring and that I can suck the heat right out of Hal's body giving him Hypothermia. You're not going to be in any condition to fight. That also means that I can absorb all the solar energy, but you shouldn't have been able to refute that in the first place.

3.) Show me evidence of GL, Surfer, or Maxima dodging an invisible blow at high speeds and I'll believe that your tracking ability is valid.

4.) I can't show scans. Why? Because there aren't any online. Believe me. I've been looking for a long time and I can't find scans of the Ray either in his advantage or against. I would like to find something but I simply cannot find anything. I also can't make scans because this computer does not support a scanner. Why? Because that's how it is. Not everyone has all the gadgets. I gave you ample locations for said information. The only thing I'm unsure about is whether Parallax died in Emerald Twilight or in the second issue of Zero Hour. I can't remember which one I saw it in, but it is in one of those issues. Giving comic book numbers or actual locations of said information is just as valid.

5.) Hal falls. That's just how it's going to be. His body has no heat. He's not a super-powered Kryptonian. I don't care if he is a Kryptonian he isn't solar powered and he's freezing to death.

6.) Silver Surfer falls. Thor's might blows are both invisible and extremely fast. Enough close range assault and SS falls ring or not. He's at a severe disadvantage here.

7.) Teleportation is fine. If you guys want to teleport near us that's just fine because just because you know we're there doesn't mean you know what we're doing. I'd like to see you dodge a punch you can't see. Sides, if you teleport near us that saves us the time of looking for you. Your problem.

8.) Maxima falls. Even if you aren't convinced that my partner took care of her then she has to deal with the combined might of The Ray and Thor. What happens now is the Ray assaults her with a barrage of blasts to distract her while Thor closes the gap and knocks her block off.

I hope you guys had fun. I know I did and I look forward to facing you two again hopefully in the future. Don't you have 2 more posts left?

Yeah he knows now.

Sorry I can't be a judge now, as my explorer is having complications shuting down unexpectedly. Also if I try to open a link, it comments there is an iexplore.exe error and closes all the windows. My comp is going into the shop, so I have no idea when I will be back

Sorry again

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Sorry I can't be a judge now, as my explorer is having complications shuting down unexpectedly. Also if I try to open a link, it comments there is an iexplore.exe error and closes all the windows. My comp is going into the shop, so I have no idea when I will be back

Sorry again

*cries*

Do what you gotta do Mungi. No worries. ...just makes things harder on me. I'll probably just end up judging myself since asking someone to jump in at the last second like this would be unfair.

I want to judge.

*Non official post*

Is it over ? Since Psy said it was 'last post' i assumed he meant last post to the deadline.

*Non official Post

I'm still waiting for both teams to use up all their posts or say that they are done with their debate.

It's tough to judge a debate still in beta stage.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Sorry I can't be a judge now, as my explorer is having complications shuting down unexpectedly. Also if I try to open a link, it comments there is an iexplore.exe error and closes all the windows. My comp is going into the shop, so I have no idea when I will be back

Sorry again

Try a different web browser. Don't use IE unless you enjoy using the worst.

www.opera.com

www.mozilla.org

Maybe these will work well enough on your "sick" pc to at least be able to judge.

Can't hurt to try.

NON-OFFICIAL:

^&%$!!!











































%$#^!!!

One more day fellas, almost to the minute.

Nice battle.

Oh, and Val filled out our judges...it's been a rough week getting judges, but I'd like to thank everyone who has done it, both for this battle and for the entire tourney.

I'm pretty close to my verdict. Grey Fox's last post was a lot more convincing that all the prior posts his team made before that. I'll be reviewing the battle more closely throughout the day before I make my final decision.

I will add that that I find it strange that multiple rings are allowed yet Borg isn't allowed to make clones. It's a strange loophole.

I also find it odd that his most recent incarnation with GL rings of his own wasn't allowed...though he's had them for many years in comics time. Yet everyone else are having dozens of them at the very least.

My decision has been made and the vote entered.

Good job guys!

A battle through and through.

I'm going to go now , but two things. Wait until psyquis post's before making an major decision , his post is the glue for my post. Secondly light is only bent around the characters , not the nanoprobes..think of it like a forcefield, it only has a certain set amount of space.

Oh and Cyborg remembers everything he's ever done seen and thought of with crystal clear clarity (Alliteration yay ! ) thanks to his computer like mind (The man must have a few thousand gigs of brain space.) He's been to Apokalyps assimilated their tech, ran WILD through their computers and can quite easily upgrade/change the environment.

Now i bid you adieu .

-GF

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I also find it odd that his most recent incarnation with GL rings of his own wasn't allowed...though he's had them for many years in comics time. Yet everyone else are having dozens of them at the very least.
It's not standard equipment though. He may have had them for years in the DCU but we've only seen that once on panel.

Additionally, that decision was made prior to GL #12.

NO-OFFICIAL:

thanks for fielding that, mr. validus . . .

and does anyone know exactly when this will be closed? midnight tonight? earlier?

Yah, midnight. And the poll will be shutting itself down sometime today.

Well I've reached a decision but I'll wait to see if any last minute posts can sway me.

I would just like to take the time to summarize what I think are the important points of this battle and once again explain why I think Leo and I have done the better job debating.


In terms of overall tactics GF and Psy have made numerous mistakes and miscalculations that they are just now starting to address.

First we must address what was perhaps their first mistake and that involved who they drafted. They failed to draft a character who could at least provide a degree of telepathic protection for their team. They made this mistake despite the fact that several teams (ours included) drafted top tier telepaths or at the very least drafted characters with some tp-protection like Magneto or Juggernaut.

Next they depended almost entirely on rather "gimmicky" tactics which they failed to prove they could even accomplish and have now been forced to abandon them. I'm speaking of course of Thor's "gravity attack" which they tried to support with a scan that never mentioned Thor manipulating gravity in any way or even mentioned the word gravity. Also there was Cyborg's mysterious ability to cause Ray to instantly turn into a kryptonian. Not only could they not find any proof of this supposed ability but if it worked it would actually serve only to de-power Ray thanks to the loss of his mutated human DNA!

Then there was the completely illegal tactic of trying to split up Cyborg's consciousness and create numerous bodies form himself. Aside from the fact that they were told that this ability was banned when they drafted Cyborg it is still pointless. By the time the fragments of his mind searched the planet to try and find any tech that may be of use against Herald-level characters (which I don't think exists on the planet Earth at this point) the fight would be well over.


Lastly and perhaps most importantly, they consistently failed to actually prove with scans that their characters could do what they are claiming. During this whole debate they not only offered little more than a pittance in terms of actual evidence, but they then veered so far off their character's accepted powerset to be nearly unbelievable. They want the judges to just assume that their characters could do what they claim no matter what that claim actually is.




Now to address each of their characters individually.

Thor

Thor was perhaps their most powerful and versatile character on their team and they completely failed to protect him. He was crippled the minute the fight started. All it would take is a simple telepathic attack to take him completely out of the fight. Hell our team may even be able to convince Thor to be nice and give his hammer to Hal or the Surfer

As powerful as Thor is and as useful as he could have been, he is just a non-factor in this fight. We've shown several scans of instates where Thor was rather easily either manipulated or incapacitated telepathically. Now GF contends that according to him Thor is able to resist telepathy somehow. I say: prove it. Get some scans and for once prove what you are claiming. That is what Leo and I have done. And sorry but I've learned (and I image the judges know this as well) that you just can't take people's word when they are describing feats. People usually leave out whatever important details or facts that are inconvenient to them.



Cyborg Superman

He is little more than a Superman clone in this fight. While his cyborg half does have greater durability than Superman, his organic half can still be easily attacked. We've proven that kryptonite works on him and shown that physical attacks can K.O. him rather easily. Not only that like most Superman clones he can easily be contained in a Constrictor or other force field (which we also showed with scans). Against a GL Silver Surfer the guy is just out classed.


Ray

I almost feel sorry for Ray. He, like Thor, was crippled from the out set. The only way he could ever have the durability he needs to actually stay alive in a Herald-level fight is to turn into his pure energy form. However, thanks to Hal's anti-energy attack that isn't a possibility. Meaning that they are stuck with a character with human durability against a kryptonian Hal. Not matter what Ray does, he dies very....very quickly.






I think the main problem GF and Psy had was that they were tempted, as other teams in the tourney were, into trying to win with with an over elaborate and far-fetched plan that they couldn't prove their team could actually do. In the end they had to abandon much of their original plan and scramble at the end of the fight to try something else.


This is contrasted with Leo and I who have stuck with our original plan nearly perfectly and proved with great care how we were able to do everything we claim. We took their entire team into account and made sure to work into our plan enough flexibility so that we could realistically deal with anything they tried.

For example now that they have changed their tactics once more and are attempting to speedblitz our team (a team made up of a GL Surfer, a GL Maxima, and a soon to be Kryptonian GL Hal), our initial plan of have the Surfer and Maxima monitor their team with cosmic awareness, telepathy, and GL rings means that we can easily and effectively counter such an attempt.


With all that I either await the votes or the judges or any futher posts from GF or Psy to which I'll be happy to respond.

NON-OFFICIAL:

clap

and a quick thanks to the judges and readers who've followed this tourney, to the people or decided to participate and of course, to big daddy himself, digi, for putting the whole kit-and-kaboodle together.

well done to all involved.

sombrero2

Last post For real this time.

I have no intention of surviving this tournament. The Ray is on bloodlust and is at the end of his patience with Hal. We know that if Hal can see then light is getting in somehow. So before Hal can whip up his antimatter energy the Ray is going into a pure energy form and zipping into the shield. He is now directing all his energy directly into Hal's head via his eyes in pure light energy form. The result of which will do two things.

1.) It will fry Hal and his brain from the inside out. It's a done deal.

2.) Kill the Ray. If I'm letting everything out then there's nothing left for me to live off of. I'm dead but so is Hal.

That's all I've got.

Good show everybody.

Originally posted by Psyquis52
Last post For real this time.

I have no intention of surviving this tournament. The Ray is on bloodlust and is at the end of his patience with Hal. We know that if Hal can see then light is getting in somehow. So before Hal can whip up his antimatter energy the Ray is going into a pure energy form and zipping into the shield. He is now directing all his energy directly into Hal's head via his eyes in pure light energy form. The result of which will do two things.

1.) It will fry Hal and his brain from the inside out. It's a done deal.

2.) Kill the Ray. If I'm letting everything out then there's nothing left for me to live off of. I'm dead but so is Hal.

That's all I've got.

Good show everybody.

1. The ring protects him against mortal harm and he can easily heal himself even if such an attack actually harmed him in any way.

After fighting a group of GL's with superior versions of the Power Ring (NO weakness to yellow, in general more powerful) Hal simply heals himself and is back in the fight:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/GreenLantern167-02.jpg


2. You're half right. Only Ray will be dead.


It's been fun everybody. I look forward to reading the judges verdicts.

sombrero2

Originally posted by TheKahn
1. The ring protects him against mortal harm and he can easily heal himself even if such an attack actually harmed him in any way.

After fighting a group of GL's with superior versions of the Power Ring (NO weakness to yellow, in general more powerful) Hal simply heals himself and is back in the fight:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/GreenLantern167-02.jpg


2. You're half right. Only Ray will be dead.


It's been fun everybody. I look forward to reading the judges verdicts.

sombrero2 I don't think the ring will be able to defend him from such a direct assault. Not at the capacity that I'm dishing out. Nice scan by the way. Yep that's definately the same scale as what I'm dishing out. That doesn't prove you can defend yourself this time. I'll be moving too fast and striking too directly with too much force. Even the ring has it's limits in automatic defenses.

Just saying the ring will do it doesn't make it fact. If you're only defense for it is that the ring can do anything and that's all there is to it, then you are going to be sorely disappointed. If the ring can do anything then at the very start why didn't Hal just tell the ring to go make my team a bunch of toddlers and then be done with it? Because the ring can't do ANYTHING!!!! That's a cop out. Forget it. Hal's dead. It's too much for him, and even if he isn't dead then he's certainly out of the fight. You can say

Originally posted by Psyquis52
I don't think the ring will be able to defend him from such a direct assault. Not at the capacity that I'm dishing out. Nice scan by the way. Yep that's definately the same scale as what I'm dishing out. That doesn't prove you can defend yourself this time. I'll be moving too fast and striking too directly with too much force. Even the ring has it's limits in automatic defenses.

Just saying the ring will do it doesn't make it fact. If you're only defense for it is that the ring can do anything and that's all there is to it, then you are going to be sorely disappointed. If the ring can do anything then at the very start why didn't Hal just tell the ring to go make my team a bunch of toddlers and then be done with it? Because the ring can't do ANYTHING!!!! That's a cop out. Forget it. Hal's dead. It's too much for him, and even if he isn't dead then he's certainly out of the fight. You can say

I really don't understand what point you were trying to make there...

The rings have always protected their wearers from mortal harm. It's not something I'm just "saying".....it's one of the most widely known and accepted aspects of the rings.....


For example, here the ring protects a rookie Hal from a nuclear blast:
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9863/emeralddawn00321rougher8ak.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/4952/emeralddawn00322rougher7zi.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9159/greenlanternemeralddawn04014zn.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/1280/greenlanternemeralddawn04022ta.jpg

Not only is Hal completely protected from the force and radiation released, but his eyes are unharmed from the unimaginably intense burst of light a nuclear explosion produces. Which is much more powerful and brighter than anything you've proven Ray can do...

Originally posted by TheKahn
I really don't understand what point you were trying to make there...

The rings have always protected their wearers from mortal harm. It's not something I'm just "saying".....it's one of the most widely known and accepted aspects of the rings.....

For example, here the ring protects a rookie Hal from a nuclear blast:

Not only is Hal completely protected from the force and radiation released, but his eyes are unharmed from the unimaginably intense burst of light a nuclear explosion produces. Which is much more powerful and brighter than anything you've proven Ray can do... The ring doesn't always protect the wearer from mortal harm. If it did then how did Superboy Prime kill all those GL's? How did Sinestro?

I can keep going if you want. Just because it's protected Hal here and there doesn't mean it's defenses are impentetrable.

And where the heck are you going with this whole light brighter than what I can come up with crap?!! A guy can't post a scan or two and suddenly his character has never done a thing? I think you are severly underestimating my character pal. That's a cheap shot.

Originally posted by Psyquis52
The ring doesn't always protect the wearer from mortal harm. If it did then how did Superboy Prime kill all those GL's? How did Sinestro?

I can keep going if you want. Just because it's protected Hal here and there doesn't mean it's defenses are impentetrable.

And where the heck are you going with this whole light brighter than what I can come up with crap?!! A guy can't post a scan or two and suddenly his character has never done a thing? I think you are severly underestimating my character pal. That's a cheap shot.

Simple. Sinestro used the old weakness to the color yellow which is no longer present. As for Superboy Prime either it was PIS or the writer was unaware of that the GL rings have that power. Kyle has contained a big-bang like explosion but SBP is able to "punch" through a construct beign created by multiple GLs that is 300 miles thick? And in that same series Conner was able to take hits from him and Bart was able to make him bleed? SBP had a jobber aura the size of Montanna.


As for you not posting a single scan in defense of Ray.....well you only have yourself to blame. Nobody forced you to draft a character you couldn't defend and there are several respect threads of other characters you could have picked. A critical part of a debate is using scans to back up your claims.

Would you have just accepted half of the stuff I claimed Hal could do if I didn't post scans to back it up?



And does anyone have a count on the number of posts we've used. We have to be getting close to 9 by now.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Simple. Sinestro used the old weakness to the color yellow which is no longer present. As for Superboy Prime either it was PIS or the writer was unaware of that the GL rings have that power. Kyle has contained a big-bang like explosion but SBP is able to "punch" through a construct beign created by multiple GLs that is 300 miles thick? And in that same series Conner was able to take hits from him and Bart was able to make him bleed? SBP had a jobber aura the size of Montanna.


As for you not posting a single scan in defense of Ray.....well you only have yourself to blame. Nobody forced you to draft a character you could defend and there are several respect thread of other characters you could have picked. A critical part of a debate is using scans to back up your claims.

Would you have just accepted half of the stuff I claimed Hal could do if I didn't post scans to back it up?



And does anyone have a count on the number of posts we've used. We have to be getting close to 9 by now. I have one post left after this one.

You're right. There isn't a lot of evidence I can provide in the support of the Ray. That's something I've had to deal with throughout the entire tournament. Fact is that this computer can't post scans and that the Ray isn't exactly a fan-favorite so it's hard to find any proof of his abilities online. But everything I've said he can do is 100% on the ball. He can do all the aformentioned things and has done most. (I'm pretty sure he's never tried to kill himself)

However, merely stating that it's PIS doesn't mean that it can't be done. I may be wrong here but didn't Cyborg Superman kill some GL's? What's your defense for that one? That the writer forgot something? No. I don't think so. That's not a good defense.

Originally posted by Psyquis52
I have one post left after this one.

You're right. There isn't a lot of evidence I can provide in the support of the Ray. That's something I've had to deal with throughout the entire tournament. Fact is that this computer can't post scans and that the Ray isn't exactly a fan-favorite so it's hard to find any proof of his abilities online. But everything I've said he can do is 100% on the ball. He can do all the aformentioned things and has done most. (I'm pretty sure he's never tried to kill himself)

However, merely stating that it's PIS doesn't mean that it can't be done. I may be wrong here but didn't Cyborg Superman kill some GL's? What's your defense for that one? That the writer forgot something? No. I don't think so. That's not a good defense.

Nope but you're wrong again, Bucky. There a couple of ways to get around the rings protection and kill a GL......it's just I'm not going to tell you how Cyborg Superman or anybody else managed to do it. That's your job.

And it's safe to say that the tactics you and GF are currently using (what is this like the 3rd or 4th change in tactics?) are sadly not among them.


And to be perfectly frank, I don't really give a shit that Superboy Prime or anybody else for that matter was able to kill off some unknown Green Lantern. SPB is was specifically banned from this tourney for being too powerful and no one on your team can match his level of PIS. And I don't think Cyborg Superman has actually killed any GLs anyway. He, along with the Manhunters, merely captured the ones Hal thought he killed when he was Parallax. As far as I know they are still alive.


I've proven the ring will protect Hal from mortal harm and easily handle the light, heat, and force of a nuclear explosion like it was nothing. And assuming Ray could even match that is being generous given the circumstances. Besides the Surfer would sense the attack coming thanks to his cosmic awareness and could simply use the anti-energy on Ray (he does have all of Hal's memories after all)


The problem remains that every claim you made has to be taken with a grain of salt. Without proof the judges have no way to know if what you are claiming is true or not. And in a tourney everyone's is suspect to a degree. Some sucidial attack that you don't even know the extent of just won't cut it.




Well I think that's my 9 posts and I need to get to bed anyway. It's been one hell of a ride.

sombrero2

Well guys, it looks like at this point the debate is truly over. The fight seems to have been won and my vote goes to "The Cosmic Caballeros."

Overall, they just seemed to have a more solid case along with scans and well thought out plans.

I felt that Cyborg and Thor weren't used to their ultimate potential and without much knowledge of the Ray and no scans to back up his feats, it's been an uphill battle.

All in all gentlemen, my vote has been placed and good luck to both as their is still time to decide a winner!

Kudos to all contestants!

Originally posted by TheKahn
Nope but you're wrong again, Bucky. There a couple of ways to get around the rings protection and kill a GL......it's just I'm not going to tell you how Cyborg Superman or anybody else managed to do it. That's your job.

And it's safe to say that the tactics you and GF are currently using (what is this like the 3rd or 4th change in tactics?) are sadly not among them.


And to be perfectly frank, I don't really give a shit that Superboy Prime or anybody else for that matter was able to kill off some unknown Green Lantern. SPB is was specifically banned from this tourney for being too powerful and no one on your team can match his level of PIS. And I don't think Cyborg Superman has actually killed any GLs anyway. He, along with the Manhunters, merely captured the ones Hal thought he killed when he was Parallax. As far as I know they are still alive.


I've proven the ring will protect Hal from mortal harm and easily handle the light, heat, and force of a nuclear explosion like it was nothing. And assuming Ray could even match that is being generous given the circumstances. Besides the Surfer would sense the attack coming thanks to his cosmic awareness and could simply use the anti-energy on Ray (he does have all of Hal's memories after all)


The problem remains that every claim you made has to be taken with a grain of salt. Without proof the judges have no way to know if what you are claiming is true or not. And in a tourney everyone's is suspect to a degree. Some sucidial attack that you don't even know the extent of just won't cut it.




Well I think that's my 9 posts and I need to get to bed anyway. It's been one hell of a ride.

sombrero2 I've got 10 mins to get this in before the time of the tourney runs out.

First of all my name's not Bucky. It's Alice. Get it right.

You did prove that the ring protects him but you didn't prove that it protects him everytime. Are we to assume that Hal has never lost a fight as GL? That he's never suffered a loss to someone?

Also a combination of things that I would like to say on the effectiveness of my suicide attack. 1. It penetrates your shield 2. Earlier in the tournament I had stated that I could drain your body of heat something that I don't feel you countered viably and I'm certain others feel the same way, so odds are that Hal is suffering from Hypothermia by the time I perform my attack making it that much more effective 3. Similar attacks such as this have been used to take down higher powered being than Hal. Such as Darkseid in Rock of Ages. Read that and you'll see what I mean.

It has been fun and all insults and parries aside you two have been great combatants. I don't really care if I win now (which is probably a good thing because I doubt I will) at least I made it this far.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Well guys, it looks like at this point the debate is truly over. The fight seems to have been won and my vote goes to "The Cosmic Caballeros."

Overall, they just seemed to have a more solid case along with scans and well thought out plans.

I felt that Cyborg and Thor weren't used to their ultimate potential and without much knowledge of the Ray and no scans to back up his feats, it's been an uphill battle.

All in all gentlemen, my vote has been placed and good luck to both as their is still time to decide a winner!

Kudos to all contestants!



that's one down . . .

It's 2-0 then?

yeah, we have avy and the poll so far . . .

You guys have been good about stopping when needed, but all debating is obviously over.

Good match to everyone, and the Caballeros lead 2-0 as of right now (Avalon and the poll).

Looks like Leo/Kahn take the cake. A lot of it has to do with GF switching the whole battle strategy near the end knowing the other wouldn't work. Plus a lot of it was strange. Cyborg making those bomb spores from Superman/Batman straight out of thin air? Don't know about that one.

The other strategy used involved destroying the power rings and the only evidence of that was Parallax crushing his old powerless ring. When the thing is actually being worn, it's considered a pretty big feat to actually destroy one. Nobody in this match could destroy one outright.

On the other hand, Leo/Kahn stuck with their strategy all the way through. Actually, that prep post looked almost identical to the one used on BW/NJ in the last round. Don't fix what isn't broken, right?

Overall, the cosmic awareness/telepathic monitoring did the job. The most powerful person on the opposing team wasn't protected at all and I'm of the opinion that if Max can take out Orion, an amped up Max can easily take out Thor. Had Thor been protected, this fight might have went differently.

Jumpy

i'd like to take this moment to thank all the people that made this victory possible. first, my grade 2 teacher for telling me that someday all that fighting i used to do could be channeled in a productive, meaningful way that would help society as a whole. damn mrs L, you were right!!

i'd also like to thank my mother and father for all their love and support. this was an arduous journey, and no man undertakes such a journey alone. my wife, for the endless sacrifices she made to allow me the time to focus so fully on meeting this great challenge. my kids for giving me that just-when-i-need-it-smile, during those times when things looked bleak.

and of course, scoob, for trailblazing this path to supreme glory and for being such a shining example of what a champion should be.

you are what i aspire to, scoob.

thank you. thank you all so much. we shall bear our title proudly and do our best to make all of you proud.

toot

good job guys!!

I still hold the Champion belt since in tag teams are different

funny, cuz i don't SEE any belt . . .

Originally posted by Validus
Looks like Leo/Kahn take the cake. A lot of it has to do with GF switching the whole battle strategy near the end knowing the other wouldn't work. Plus a lot of it was strange. Cyborg making those bomb spores from Superman/Batman straight out of thin air? Don't know about that one.

The other strategy used involved destroying the power rings and the only evidence of that was Parallax crushing his old powerless ring. When the thing is actually being worn, it's considered a pretty big feat to actually destroy one. Nobody in this match could destroy one outright.

On the other hand, Leo/Kahn stuck with their strategy all the way through. Actually, that prep post looked almost identical to the one used on BW/NJ in the last round. Don't fix what isn't broken, right?

Overall, the cosmic awareness/telepathic monitoring did the job. The most powerful person on the opposing team wasn't protected at all and I'm of the opinion that if Max can take out Orion, an amped up Max can easily take out Thor. Had Thor been protected, this fight might have went differently.

Agreed. Little things like having borg use his tech to create near indestructable armors and self monitoring weapons of mass destruction and nanoprobes to help speed up efficiency for each team member would have helped.

Things like creating extra rings but not allowing extra bodies/environmental control for Borg should have also been called out early in the tourny.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Agreed. Little things like having borg use his tech to create near indestructable armors and self monitoring weapons of mass destruction and nanoprobes to help speed up efficiency for each team member would have helped.

Things like creating extra rings but not allowing extra bodies/environmental control for Borg should have also been called out early in the tourny.

Well the rings are a little different in my mind because you have to do a hell of a lot to make a convincing argument that your other team members could even use them and they really only enhance your existing team.

The multiple bodies for Cyborg falls into the category of actually creating more opponents (call them independent constructs or giant mechs with shards of his consciousness or whatever). And then there is the issue of the killability limit. If he is allowed to just keep creating more and more bodies, who is anyone suppose to deal with him given the confines of the tourney?

The multiple rings didn't amount to much anyway. I didn't see Hal or Kyle in the last round do anything with 10 rings they couldn't have done with one since that is the way it works anyhow.

and we really didn't do much with the rings we gave max and ss -- only thing ss did/tried to do was make a constrictor. pretty everything else he and max did they could have done without rings . . .

danceWe have the winnah! Go Corps!dance

Originally posted by leonidas
funny, cuz i don't SEE any belt . . .


I still hold the Championship in single competitors

Joint or not... there's only one title ....

Originally posted by Scoobless
Joint or not... there's only one title ....

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I still hold the Championship in single competitors






B-Dub is like the Triple H of KMC.

Congrats to the winners. You guys did good.

You may have one Corps but the Magiks (much like a Bean Burrito) shall return !!!!!

















Nah awesome match , I got further then ever before and it's all thanks to psy .

Originally posted by grey fox
You may have one Corps but the Magiks (much like a Bean Burrito) shall return !!!!!

Nah awesome match , I got further then ever before and it's all thanks to psy . Liar. You did most the work.

Let's just say that you both didn't do much.....

Originally posted by Scoobless
Let's just say that you both didn't do much.....