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The bible said that this almost happened during the times of Noah, because of stupid men following the foolish doctrines of demons. He could have destroyed them all if he wanted to in the blink of an eye, but chose not to.

Whats Gods motivation for allowing all of his foolish creatures to exist, and whats stopping him from not destroying all these things in todays times, which are gradually becoming like the days of Noah. Discuss.

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
The bible said that this almost happened during the times of Noah, because of stupid men following the foolish doctrines of demons. He could have destroyed them all if he wanted to in the blink of an eye, but chose not to.

What\'s God\'s motivation for allowing all of his foolish creatures to exist, and what\'s stopping him from not destroying all these things in todays times, which are gradually becoming like the days of Noah. Discuss.

Because God, in a Christian essence, is Merciful. He doesn't take calculated risks and won't sacrifice the few faithful for the many, who in different religion's eyes, commit consistant forms of debauchery.

God promised not to destroy the Earth again after the Flood. Genesis 8:21 "...Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done." Pretty simple actually.

Originally posted by Nellinator
God promised not to destroy the Earth again after the Flood. Genesis 8:21 "...Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done." Pretty simple actually.

I thought he said he would never flood the earth again and that's all?

Nope, he says "never again will I destroy all living things". Besides God loves everyone and gives every us the opportunity to repent and accept his love through his son Jesus Christ until the moment of death. Hallelujah!

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
The bible said that this almost happened during the times of Noah, because of stupid men following the foolish doctrines of demons. He could have destroyed them all if he wanted to in the blink of an eye, but chose not to.

Whats Gods motivation for allowing all of his foolish creatures to exist, and whats stopping him from not destroying all these things in todays times, which are gradually becoming like the days of Noah. Discuss.


Maybe because he forgot to put a reset button on the earth? Or maybe....just maybe, it's because he doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Maybe because he forgot to put a reset button on the earth? Or maybe....just maybe, it's because he doesn't exist.

Or maybe, just maybe, you should help the discussion instead of making worthless comments.

Your understanding of God is very limited, or you understand a limited god.

because god is an ideal and an ideal that is concieved of hundred's of different ways and not an actual figure of power.

Originally posted by Himo
Because God, in a Christian essence, is Merciful. He doesn't take calculated risks and won't sacrifice the few faithful for the many, who in different religion's eyes, commit consistant forms of debauchery.

He's so merficul he sends plagues, sends the Angel of Death to slaugher children, sends a flood to wipe out his own people, and creates Hell for those who don't follow his Authoritarian rules.

Yeah, he's SO FKN merciful...

The Christian definition of Mercy is certainly a HORRIFYING one.

Actually, I think it's because "God" went and made those pesky laws of physics in his universe. He'd have to violate a whole hell of a lot of his "Word" (i.e. physics) to uncreate the universe so fast. So I'd say we're safe from total annihilation at the hands of an angry God. At least until maybe next weekend.

Originally posted by Nellinator
God promised not to destroy the Earth again after the Flood. Genesis 8:21 "...Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done." Pretty simple actually.

Every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood? Tch, tch. That kind of absolutist, baseless claim is why I have so much trouble trusting the Bible.

The Old Testment should be completely ignored. There's some crazy sh!t in there

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood? Tch, tch. That kind of absolutist, baseless claim is why I have so much trouble trusting the Bible.
I figured some one would make a comment on that part of the verse. I wouldn't say it is baseless though. Children can be some of the most horrible people when compared to adults (although many adults are horrible too). I am going to suppose that you disagree by the logic that many non-Christian humans do good deeds and I would agree with you. But every time we do a good deed I think it is God's grace on our life coming through whether we know it or not.

Originally posted by Nellinator
I figured some one would make a comment on that part of the verse. I wouldn't say it is baseless though. Children can be some of the most horrible people when compared to adults (although many adults are horrible too). I am going to suppose that you disagree by the logic that many non-Christian humans do good deeds and I would agree with you. But every time we do a good deed I think it is God's grace on our life coming through whether we know it or not.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. And one must remember that a child being horrible, for a time at least, is far more linked to lack of maturity and understanding. An inefficiently developed conscious. It is one thing for a child to be unpleasant due to lack of maturity, another entirely for a person with full mental faculties choosing such a path.

And yes, I do say that a Non-Christian is just as capable of being good as a Christian. And this is the situation I talk about - even the good things done by a non-Christian are being attributed to God and his grace, yet in another thread I have a person saying about how nothing bad in the world is linked to God. Good things = Happy smiley God gets credit. Bad things = The sole responsibility of inherently evil people, nothing to do with God.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Sorry, couldn't help myself. And one must remember that a child being horrible, for a time at least, is far more linked to lack of maturity and understanding. An inefficiently developed conscious. It is one thing for a child to be unpleasant due to lack of maturity, another entirely for a person with full mental faculties choosing such a path.

And yes, I do say that a Non-Christian is just as capable of being good as a Christian. And this is the situation I talk about - even the good things done by a non-Christian are being attributed to God and his grace, yet in another thread I have a person saying about how nothing bad in the world is linked to God. Good things = Happy smiley God gets credit. Bad things = The sole responsibility of inherently evil people, nothing to do with God.
Yet, when a small child bullies another it is evil not good. More easily forgiveable because of the lack of maturity and understanding but evli nonetheless. God can take credit all good things because he gave a man a conscious, free will, and in most cases a rational and logical mind. When we do good, God is glorified because we have chosen what God would have wanted.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Yet, when a small child bullies another it is evil not good. More easily forgiveable because of the lack of maturity and understanding but evli nonetheless.

No, not easily forgiven. It is a sign education is needed. To teach the one in need. A child bulling and realising what they are doing is a child that would fit that, a child who doesn't realise the social conventions they are transgressing however is a different matter. And most children are not naturally inclined to bully. Bicker perhaps, but bullying, no.

And I would argue that evil requires intent. A bee is not evil when it stings, just like a tornado that devastates a town is not evil. If a action lacks a conscious understanding then while it is certainly wrong and needs to be stopped it is not the kind of thing that would easily fall into the "evil" category. If one does not realise one will cause pain or harm (and they do exist, and for a time many people are like that to a degree when very young) then it is different then a person who does it despite knowing full well what they are doing will hurt/harm others and that it will not be in line with social rules.



Yes, so God gets Kudos for good things that happen and we do, even those many of us not affiliated with his faith. Yet bad things can in no way be attributed to him?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
No, not easily forgiven. It is a sign education is needed. To teach the one in need. A child bulling and realising what they are doing is a child that would fit that, a child who doesn't realise the social conventions they are transgressing however is a different matter. And most children are not naturally inclined to bully. Bicker perhaps, but bullying, no.

And I would argue that evil requires intent. A bee is not evil when it stings, just like a tornado that devastates a town is not evil. If a action lacks a conscious understanding then while it is certainly wrong and needs to be stopped it is not the kind of thing that would easily fall into the "evil" category. If one does not realise one will cause pain or harm (and they do exist, and for a time many people are like that to a degree when very young) then it is different then a person who does it despite knowing full well what they are doing will hurt/harm others and that it will not be in line with social rules.



Yes, so God gets Kudos for good things that happen and we do, even those many of us not affiliated with his faith. Yet bad things can in no way be attributed to him?
You are like many psychologists I have dealt with. I disagree with you and them in that I believe that basically (not always) once children can talk and communicate they are also able of rational thought and conscious. It is true they need to be taught right from wrong, but they know that their decisions have consequences. Consider a child throwing a temper tantrum knowing that they will get attention. They are in full control of what they are doing.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You are like many psychologists I have dealt with. I disagree with you and them in that I believe that basically (not always) once children can talk and communicate they are also able of rational thought and conscious. It is true they need to be taught right from wrong, but they know that their decisions have consequences. Consider a child throwing a temper tantrum knowing that they will get attention. They are in full control of what they are doing.

Oh, I don't disagree that children can rationalise. But a person can rationalize all they want, and never get anywhere if they have no understanding of what they are rationalizing about. Likewise it is hard to understand concepts like consequences is they don't know causation and so forth. A child that, for examples, bites and has never been bitten themselves - have they been told biting is bad? That it hurts? How old are they? It is hard for them to understand the incorrect nature of the act if they lack sufficient understanding of why it is wrong. Usually for many children they learn fast - tell them something is wrong, and they will get it. Or discipline them. But they aren't being evil if they do something that they neither know, or can conceive, would be wrong. However once they get to the point where right and wrong are defined they should have no excuse - I believe mental maturity at any rate can be achieved far quicker then most give credit for.

As to a child throwing a tantrum - the operative words there are "they know" - they are not born with that knowledge. It is often born out of a coincidence - the child discovers that crying gets a result, cry when you want more food - you get food. This becomes a problem with positive reinforcement - parents who crumble to the tantrum. The fact still remains that the child has a conscious understanding that the action is considered "bad" and they do it. A baby that cries when hungry is not being bad is it, despite the act being similar to the older child crying when it wants something. The balance is intent and understanding the right/wrongness of the action.

Your reasons are why the verse says childhood, not birth. Children are not sinful at birth, but once you know the difference between right and wrong you are capable of sin. I think we have some sort of understanding here.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Your reasons are why the verse says childhood, not birth. Children are not sinful at birth, but once you know the difference between right and wrong you are capable of sin. I think we have some sort of understanding here.

Yes.... I think so. Still, I question the claim "every inclination" as that is quite clearly not true.

Can we agree to disagree?

Originally posted by Nellinator
Can we agree to disagree?

Yes. Yes we can. Wow, it is remarkable sane around here with JIA and Lord U. and his opponants off board.

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
The bible said that this almost happened during the times of Noah, because of stupid men following the foolish doctrines of demons. He could have destroyed them all if he wanted to in the blink of an eye, but chose not to.

Whats Gods motivation for allowing all of his foolish creatures to exist, and whats stopping him from not destroying all these things in todays times, which are gradually becoming like the days of Noah. Discuss.

I do not accept the Bible as a unique authority on God or any other subject. That does not mean that I dismiss it entirely, however.

To begin with, I will not accept anything just because it is written in the Bible. As far as I am concerned the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament from the Christian point of view) is a collection of the tribal legends, historical records, and religious writings of the ancient Hebrews. I am a modern man - not an ancient Hebrew. Therefore, my entire worldview is informed by scientific data and cultural assumptions that are extremely far removed from those of the ancient Hebrews. Unlike them, just to name a few examples, I am convinced that this universe is billions of years old; that life as it now appears on Earth is part of an ongoing process of evolution; that different languages and dialects developed over time; that it is not an abomination to eat pork, shrimp, or lobster, or to mix beef and dairy products; that slavery is immoral; that it is immoral to execute disrespectful children; and that one is never justified in committing genocide or ethnic cleansing. The ancient Hebrews, however, were ignorant of modern astrophysics, ignorant of geology, ignorant of the fossil record and carbon dating, they believed that all of the existing language groups originated from God's curse at the tower of Babel, they believed that it is an abomination to eat certain kinds of foods or to prepare foods in certain ways, they believed that disrespect to God or one's parent's is a capital offense, they practiced slavery, and they believed that God had commanded them to kill every man, woman, and child in certain towns during the conquest of the promised land (in other cases the men and boys were killed and the woman and girls enslaved). So, for scientific and moral reasons I do not view the Bible as an authority.

The Bible also relates stories wherein a donkey speaks to its master, a flood covers the entire world and all life on earth today is descended from only the animals aboard Noah's ark, a woman turns into a pillar of salt, people are lifted up bodily into the heavens never to return, the sun stands still in the sky, and finally a man physically comes back from the dead and proceeds to walk through walls and ascend bodily into the heavens. I am leaving out a lot of other miraculous tales that are either logistically impossible, or which could be explained in a more rational way. The point is that the reality I live in does not operate that way, and I have never been given any good reason to believe that any of these things happened in real life other than the testimony of the ancient Hebrews who (as I said) had a prescientific mythical worldview; and the testimony of a small sect of Judaism which became the nucleus of a minor mystery religion in the Roman Empire, which eventually became the official religion of that empire, which then become the reigning religious ideology of various European nation-states. I must say that I require objective, empirical, and verifiable and irrefutable evidence before I throw common sense out the window and accept that any of these things happened in real life.

Originally posted by mahasattva
I do not accept the Bible as a unique authority on God or any other subject. That does not mean that I dismiss it entirely, however.

To begin with, I will not accept anything just because it is written in the Bible. As far as I am concerned the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament from the Christian point of view) is a collection of the tribal legends, historical records, and religious writings of the ancient Hebrews. I am a modern man - not an ancient Hebrew. Therefore, my entire worldview is informed by scientific data and cultural assumptions that are extremely far removed from those of the ancient Hebrews. Unlike them, just to name a few examples, I am convinced that this universe is billions of years old; that life as it now appears on Earth is part of an ongoing process of evolution; that different languages and dialects developed over time; that it is not an abomination to eat pork, shrimp, or lobster, or to mix beef and dairy products; that slavery is immoral; that it is immoral to execute disrespectful children; and that one is never justified in committing genocide or ethnic cleansing. The ancient Hebrews, however, were ignorant of modern astrophysics, ignorant of geology, ignorant of the fossil record and carbon dating, they believed that all of the existing language groups originated from God's curse at the tower of Babel, they believed that it is an abomination to eat certain kinds of foods or to prepare foods in certain ways, they believed that disrespect to God or one's parent's is a capital offense, they practiced slavery, and they believed that God had commanded them to kill every man, woman, and child in certain towns during the conquest of the promised land (in other cases the men and boys were killed and the woman and girls enslaved). So, for scientific and moral reasons I do not view the Bible as an authority.

The Bible also relates stories wherein a donkey speaks to its master, a flood covers the entire world and all life on earth today is descended from only the animals aboard Noah's ark, a woman turns into a pillar of salt, people are lifted up bodily into the heavens never to return, the sun stands still in the sky, and finally a man physically comes back from the dead and proceeds to walk through walls and ascend bodily into the heavens. I am leaving out a lot of other miraculous tales that are either logistically impossible, or which could be explained in a more rational way. The point is that the reality I live in does not operate that way, and I have never been given any good reason to believe that any of these things happened in real life other than the testimony of the ancient Hebrews who (as I said) had a prescientific mythical worldview; and the testimony of a small sect of Judaism which became the nucleus of a minor mystery religion in the Roman Empire, which eventually became the official religion of that empire, which then become the reigning religious ideology of various European nation-states. I must say that I require objective, empirical, and verifiable and irrefutable evidence before I throw common sense out the window and accept that any of these things happened in real life.

Do you accept the words of the Dalai Lama to represent truth?

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
Do you accept the words of the Dalai Lama to represent truth?

? What does the Dalai Lama have to do with anything?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
? What does the Dalai Lama have to do with anything?



Yeah that real believable...where the scientific proof that he reincarnated Buddha? Oh I forgot, there isn't any.




Yeah Buddhism is much more belief able then Christianity. Being a reincarnated Lion Monarch is much more as belief able than a historically recorded global flood....

I being sarcastic and witty above. I do that sometimes in posts. Make me look smart even if grammar is bad.

added an apostrophe to isn't.

speled apostrophe wrong so corrected mistake so I not look stupid and look like I not know what I talk about.

I mean spelled.

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
Yeah that real believable...where the scientific proof that he reincarnated Buddha? Oh I forgot, there isnt any.




Yeah Buddhism is much more belief able then Christianity. Being a reincarnated Lion Monarch is much more as belief able than a historically recorded global flood....

I being sarcastic and witty above. I do that sometimes in posts. Make me look smart even if grammar is bad.

So what?

Both mahasattva and I are of the same religion and the Dalai Lama is not a member of our religion, the last I heard.

If you are going to scoff and mock us, perhaps you should learn a little bit about Nichiren Buddhism first.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/bofnd.html

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So what?

Both mahasattva and I are of the same religion and the Dalai Lama is not a member of our religion, the last I heard.

If you are going to scoff and mock us, perhaps you should learn a little bit about Nichiren Buddhism first.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/bofnd.html

Do you belief that the Dalai Lama is reincarnated. Are you a reincarnated Lion Monarch?

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
Do you belief that the Dalai Lama is reincarnated. Are you a reincarnated Lion Monarch?

I believe that you are reincarnated and that you can be a Lion Monarch in your life.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You are like many psychologists I have dealt with. I disagree with you and them in that I believe that basically (not always) once children can talk and communicate they are also able of rational thought and conscious. It is true they need to be taught right from wrong, but they know that their decisions have consequences. Consider a child throwing a temper tantrum knowing that they will get attention. They are in full control of what they are doing.

If young children lack anything, it's rational thought and control.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Your reasons are why the verse says childhood, not birth. Children are not sinful at birth, but once you know the difference between right and wrong you are capable of sin. I think we have some sort of understanding here.

You can teach a child the difference between right and wrong all you want...they won't truly understand those concepts until they get older.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You can teach a child the difference between right and wrong all you want...they won't truly understand those concepts until they get older.
That is where we disagree.

Originally posted by Himo
Or maybe, just maybe, you should help the discussion instead of making worthless comments.


How is point out that god might not exist a worthless comment? It's very relavant to this topic.

Originally posted by Nellinator
That is where we disagree.

Um..dude..we disagree on a LOT OF THINGS

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Um..dude..we disagree on a LOT OF THINGS
True enough.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I believe that you are reincarnated and that you can be a Lion Monarch in your life.

If you belief you are a "reincarnated Lion Monarch", that cool. That is your belief. And it could be wrong. Actually it is wrong. But I not trying to make fun of you. I just think that it funny that you and mahat can belief in something so rediculous without any scientific prove and then mock the teachings of the bible.

Good day to you sir.

-Chancellor Gohan

added the word reincarnated lion Monarch to point out rediculousness of argument and sound smarter.

FYI I not a reincarnated lion monarch.

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
If you belief you are a "reincarnated Lion Monarch", that cool. That is your belief. And it could be wrong. Actually it is wrong. But I not trying to make fun of you. I just think that it funny that you and mahat can belief in something so rediculous without any scientific prove and then mock the teachings of the bible.

Good day to you sir.

-Chancellor Gohan

I don't think they have been mocking the Bible. But it is a valid point. The Bible is an unchanging, very old book that if looked at critically and rationally has issues which, in all fairness, make it hard to declare it the be all and end all of truth.

Don't be so sensitive - don't assume that to question is blasphemy or somehow insulting.

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
If you belief you are a "reincarnated Lion Monarch", that cool. That is your belief. And it could be wrong. Actually it is wrong. But I not trying to make fun of you. I just think that it funny that you and mahat can belief in something so rediculous without any scientific prove and then mock the teachings of the bible.

Good day to you sir.

-Chancellor Gohan
You are not allowed to tell Shaky that he is wrong... Only he is allowed to tell you that you are wrong. That is life, deal with it.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You are not allowed to tell Shaky that he is wrong... Only he is allowed to tell you that you are wrong. That is life, deal with it.

Hey! That is not fair.

innocent

Originally posted by Nellinator
You are not allowed to tell Shaky that he is wrong... Only he is allowed to tell you that you are wrong. That is life, deal with it.

Did shakya buy your services?

Geez...I leave for two weeks and when I come back Shakya has his own private army.

Originally posted by Alliance
Did shakya buy your services?

Geez...I leave for two weeks and when I come back Shakya has his own private army.

You made the mistake of telling me that you would be gone.

Well I'm back.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You are not allowed to tell Shaky that he is wrong... Only he is allowed to tell you that you are wrong. That is life, deal with it.

Since when.... damn mirror universes. I have to stop falling into them.

Really, you have transversed spacetime....I think not.

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
The bible said that this almost happened during the times of Noah, because of stupid men following the foolish doctrines of demons. He could have destroyed them all if he wanted to in the blink of an eye, but chose not to.

Whats Gods motivation for allowing all of his foolish creatures to exist, and whats stopping him from not destroying all these things in todays times, which are gradually becoming like the days of Noah. Discuss.

Why would god need to destroy the universe on account of what's happening on earth?? somebody's got a case of the universe-revolves-around-me syndrome.

Originally posted by meep-meep
Why would god need to destroy the universe on account of what's happening on earth?? somebody's got a case of the universe-revolves-around-me syndrome.

Most Christians beleive the entire universe revolves around thier mythology.

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
The bible said that this almost happened during the times of Noah, because of stupid men following the foolish doctrines of demons. He could have destroyed them all if he wanted to in the blink of an eye, but chose not to.

Whats Gods motivation for allowing all of his foolish creatures to exist, and whats stopping him from not destroying all these things in todays times, which are gradually becoming like the days of Noah. Discuss.

Because he's loving. Looking at the condition of the earth now I can say the prior statement now with full confidence. Still, being human and susceptible to sin I have times where I lack faith in his love. But despite any weaknesses I may have, I know that God's love is great enough to overcome all things. Especially all of those things that you've mentioned above.

Originally posted by ChancellorGohan
The bible said that this almost happened during the times of Noah, because of stupid men following the foolish doctrines of demons. He could have destroyed them all if he wanted to in the blink of an eye, but chose not to.

Whats Gods motivation for allowing all of his foolish creatures to exist, and whats stopping him from not destroying all these things in todays times, which are gradually becoming like the days of Noah. Discuss.

Entertainment purposes.

Someday He (or She) is gonna feel like changing the channell...

Originally posted by Thundar
Because he's loving. Looking at the condition of the earth now I can say the prior statement now with full confidence. Still, being human and susceptible to sin I have times where I lack faith in his love. But despite any weaknesses I may have, I know that God's love is great enough to overcome all things. Especially all of those things that you've mentioned above.


Shut up Whob

He loves us.

Why doesn't God start from scratch?

Would you want to destroy your favorite comedy/drama/live-action/reality show?

Originally posted by King Nothing
He loves us.

But isn't he going to do it eventually? Isn't that kind of the whole point of Revelations - God saying "bugger this, time to chuck the trash and move on."



Oh yes. I can look at the world today, or during anytime period for that matter, and I am presented with irrefutable proof God is loving.

And by irrefutable I mean "no". None. Nadda. Zip.

But then again we can just chalk that up to "God doesn't interfere." Except when he does which has usually involved violence and death. Which we then chalk up to the God clause - "God is good and can do no wrong and thus everything he does is Good, even if by any rational standard it would be considered wrong. Hitlerific wrong even."

I fear my faith in his love is a rather... nonexistent thing. Just like my faith he exists at all.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
But isn't he going to do it eventually? Isn't that kind of the whole point of Revelations - God saying "bugger this, time to chuck the trash and move on."
The point is to destroy the final evil, take those who are worthy to heaven, and leave those who are not worthy. God will not recreate or destroy the universe. He will save the universe and will pluck those who are worthy out of this place and leave all those who have gone astray.

because he doesnt exist?

Originally posted by Lord Rock
because he doesnt exist?

Winner!

Why? Because doing so would erase all the great things that have occurred in existence

Why do people not kill their daughter/son when they're naughty and start from scratch?

Originally posted by King Nothing
The point is to destroy the final evil, take those who are worthy to heaven, and leave those who are not worthy. God will not recreate or destroy the universe. He will save the universe and will pluck those who are worthy out of this place and leave all those who have gone astray.

Yes... it makes sense to just suddenly say one day "I think this is the day I will destroy the final evil and scoop up the good guys. Yep, no reason I think I could have done this earlier. The important thing is I am doing it now."

And so essentially in your version... what, God is going to separate himself from the material existence of the universe? He'll down Satan, take his gang to heaven, and leave behind... who? The people who don't belong to either camp?



Maybe because telling a lie or spilling some milk isn't a capital offence? But there are plenty of people who believe we all deserved to be damned, even if we have never committed a serious crime. Or any crime at all. Because God is a stickler for the details, and apparently would damn people for just not believing in him.