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keep in mind that a lot of people do not like every song on a CD they buy. Keep in mind that burning a CD with a compilation of music we like is more feasible than buying a song chocked full of crap songs, then only two or three songs.
now, i ask you. what is your opinion on this?

"Is it OK?" No
"Do I do it?" Yes

I feel like making a CD right now...

Depends. Are you talking about downloading it completely free or paying 99cents a song?

I assume it's talking about illegal downloads.

'I do it everyday!'

As in now!

Led Zepplin, Knocking on Heaven's door. And trust me, the site/program I'm using, I know it is stealing...

My opinion on it is simple:

Everyone should eventually pay for all the music they own. That's my objective opinion.

Morally; I find all illegal downloading to be wrong. However, my morals are my own and I do not expect people to live by them. If you simply download to "preview" music, then I disagree with your actions also. That said, I know people who download to see if they like it, then buy it after, without question.

As long as, at the end of the day, you PAY for the music, I don't care what you do. If I had my way, downloading would be extinct. Realistically, it won't. So in the real world, I just believe people should pay for their music. Be it from a legal download site or with CDs.

If you sit there downloading repeatedly with no intention to pay; you're a scumbag and I hope a burglar steal your belongings.

-AC

Originally posted by Sora The Brave
'I do it everyday!'

As in now!

Led Zepplin, Knocking on Heaven's door. And trust me, the site/program I'm using, I know it is stealing... Limewire?
I have Shareaza.

Originally posted by bigbran
I feel like making a CD right now...

Originally posted by bigbran
Limewire?
I have Shareaza.

Ares.

Originally posted by Piggle Humsy
*reports you*

Originally posted by bigbran
Limewire?
I have Shareaza.

Limewire is sexual....

Honestly, the amount of porn that comes up in searches can be staggering.

Originally posted by Sora The Brave
Ares.



Hey i didn't say it!
And what the hell is Ares?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
My opinion on it is simple:

Everyone should eventually pay for all the music they own. That's my objective opinion.

Morally; I find all illegal downloading to be wrong. However, my morals are my own and I do not expect people to live by them. If you simply download to "preview" music, then I disagree with your actions also. That said, I know people who download to see if they like it, then buy it after, without question.

As long as, at the end of the day, you PAY for the music, I don't care what you do. If I had my way, downloading would be extinct. Realistically, it won't. So in the real world, I just believe people should pay for their music. Be it from a legal download site or with CDs.

If you sit there downloading repeatedly with no intention to pay; you're a scumbag and I hope a burglar steal your belongings.

-AC
your opinion IS your own. i RESPECT your opinion. what i DO NOT respect is when you go around calling people you dont even know scumbag, thieving scum or whatever else you can come up with.

my opinion is that this is not a big deal, you do not have to agree with it, but you have to respect it. your opinion is that it IS a big deal. i dont agree with it, but i HAVE TO RESPECT it. chill with the name calling and lets have an intelligent debate here. every time you revert to calling calling us names you only prove my point.

Originally posted by bigbran
Limewire F*cked my other computer up, but this shareaza, only takes up 3.00mbs.

Kazaa screwed up my old computer... I hate that software with a passion now.

Originally posted by bigbran
And what the hell is Ares?

My point exactly. Only people I know who have Ares, are three of my friends.

Also, it took me thiry minutes to find the version of Ares I ddidn't have to pay for

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
your opinion IS your own. i RESPECT your opinion. what i DO NOT respect is when you go around calling people you dont even know scumbag, thieving scum or whatever else you can come up with.

I didn't say "Rogue Jedi is specifically a scumbag.". If my opinion on the matter applies to you, then tough shit. It applies to probably billions of others.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
my opinion is that this is not a big deal, you do not have to agree with it, but you have to respect it. your opinion is that it IS a big deal. i dont agree with it, but i HAVE TO RESPECT it. chill with the name calling and lets have an intelligent debate here. every time you revert to calling calling us names you only prove my point.

No, I respect your RIGHT to have an opinion, I do not have to respect the actual opinion itself. Don't put the cart before the horse.

The fact of the matter is, Rogue, I've studied this and I know I have more factual and sensical information to go by than you do. You're wrong, and you know your debate makes no sense. That's why you endlessly dodge my posts like a greased egg.

-AC

Originally posted by Sora The Brave
My point exactly. Only people I know who have Ares, are three of my friends.

Also, it took me thiry minutes to find the version of Ares I ddidn't have to pay for My brother gave me the site in which i could find mine. (It's free and virus free.)
I call it a double freebie.

Originally posted by Sora The Brave
My point exactly. Only people I know who have Ares, are three of my friends.

Also, it took me thiry minutes to find the version of Ares I ddidn't have to pay for

Is it file sharing software? If it is I can imagine it has few files on

It is.

Jesus... No Idea do you have... If I got caught, I'd get like... Sued... Or something XD

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I didn't say "Rogue Jedi is specifically a scumbag.". If my opinion on the matter applies to you, then tough shit. It applies to probably billions of others.



No, I respect your RIGHT to have an opinion, I do not have to respect the actual opinion itself. Don't put the cart before the horse.

The fact of the matter is, Rogue, I've studied this and I know I have more factual and sensical information to go by than you do. You're wrong, and you know your debate makes no sense. That's why you endlessly dodge my posts like a greased egg.

-AC
i dodge your posts? dude, you like totally follow me whereever i go here and bash my opinion. are you in love with me or something?
if you have studied this, then quote us some facts on it.

You can get caught on file sharing programmes you know?

(to sora)

Originally posted by bigbran
My brother gave me the site in which i could find mine. (It's free and virus free.)
I call it a double freebie. God I hate being last on a page.

I've had no problems with Limewire Pro.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i dodge your posts? dude, you like totally follow me whereever i go here and bash my opinion. are you in love with me or something?
if you have studied this, then quote us some facts on it.

I'm not bashing your opinion, I'm debating it, countering it and giving reasons. You're not answering my question because you'll know you'll be proven wrong.

Answer my question please. I'm asking you nice enough, no need to be hypocritical and crack a gay joke, that's just sad.

-AC

Lucky... (To Big.)

No. It's just that I have so many illegal files and songs downloaded, if someone at school (Administrative staff or such.) Or a cop searched through, I'd be in serious trouble and get fined. Trust me, all of this stuff is ripped, torn and reproduced through like, twenty different people.
I dont think its legal to download SW: Ep. III for free... Or is it?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's why you endlessly dodge my posts like a greased egg.


Or two testes competing for a cavity being in size only two-thirds of their combined area.

Originally posted by Sora The Brave
Lucky... (To Big.)

No. It's just that I have so many illegal files and songs downloaded, if someone at school (Administrative staff or such.) Or a cop searched through, I'd be in serious trouble and get fined. Trust me, all of this stuff is ripped, torn and reproduced through like, twenty different people.
I dont think its legal to download SW: Ep. III for free... Or is it?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Or two testes competing for a cavity being in size only two-thirds of their combined area.


i needed that!!!

I don't have a problem with illegal downloading if the person does buy the music whether it be I Tunes, Napster, or in CD form.

Guys in the Hip Hop thread are the perfect example: there was a ton of downloading that went on, most of it illegally, yet most of those same members to my knowledge still went out to buy the music artists CD's. If this was done more, illegal downloading wouldn't be such a problem as the artist would get paid in the end.

Here you go Rogue:

Advance: $250,000.
Manager's Cut: $37,500.
Legal fees: $10,000.
Recording Budget: $150,000.
Producer's advance: $50,000.
Studio fee: $ 52,500
Drum Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $ 3,000
Recording tape: $ 8,000
Equipment rental: $ 5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $ 5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $ 10,000
Catering: $ 3,000
Mastering: $ 10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc. expenses: $ 2,000
Video budget: $ 30,000
Cameras: $ 8,000
Crew: $ 5,000
Processing and transfers: $ 3,000
Off-line: $ 2,000
On-line editing: $ 3,000
Catering: $ 1,000
Stage and construction: $ 3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $ 2,000
Director's fee: $ 3,000
Album Artwork: $ 5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $ 2,000
Band fund: $ 15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $ 5,000
New fancy professional guitars : $ 3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs : $ 4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $ 1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $ 1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $ 500
Big blowout party for their friends: $ 500
Tour expense : $ 50,875
Bus: $ 25,000
Crew : $ 7,500
Food and per diems: $ 7,875
Fuel: $ 3,000
Consumable supplies: $ 3,500
Wardrobe: $ 1,000
Promotion: $ 3,000
Tour gross income: $ 50,000
Agent's cut: $ 7,500
Manager's cut: $ 7,500
Merchandising advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Publishing advance: $ 20,000
Manager's cut: $ 3,000
Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000
Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 =
$3,000,000
Gross retail revenue Royalty: :
$ 351,000
Less advance: $ 250,000
Producer's points: :
$ 40,000
Promotional budget: $ 25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $ 50,000

Net royalty: $ -14,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Record company income:

Record wholesale price: $6.50 x 250,000 =
$1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $ 351,000
Deficit from royalties: $ 14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution: @ $2.20 per record: $ 550,000
Gross profit: $ 7l0,000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.


Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25

Not a huge deal, unless you're them.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not bashing your opinion, I'm debating it, countering it and giving reasons. You're not answering my question because you'll know you'll be proven wrong.

Answer my question please. I'm asking you nice enough, no need to be hypocritical and crack a gay joke, that's just sad.

-AC
ok, point made. but it was no more sad than questioning my manhood.

are you still on the shoplifting thing? look, i just dont think that shoplifting is in the same league as burning cd's. your question has been answered, ok?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ok, point made. but it was no more sad than questioning my manhood.

are you still on the shoplifting thing? look, i just dont think that shoplifting is in the same league as burning cd's. your question has been answered, ok?

No, it hasn't. I didn't ask that.

I asked you if you believed shoplifting was ok if the person doing it was on low income. Since you believe it's ok to steal if you're on low income.

Simple question, the faster you answer, the quicker we can move on.

-AC

Can I point out that this thread is in the wrong forum. ()

GDF?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, it hasn't. I didn't ask that.

I asked you if you believed shoplifting was ok if the person doing it was on low income. Since you believe it's ok to steal if you're on low income.

Simple question, the faster you answer, the quicker we can move on.

-AC
i answered your question. and you did ask me to be a man. i am more man than you could possibly imagine.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i answered your question. and you did ask me to be a man. i am more man than you could possibly imagine.

Did you flex your muscles for self-satisfaction when you said that? I'd imagine this has left you feeling a little sheepish.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Here you go Rogue:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.


Record company: $ 710,000
Producer: $ 90,000
Manager: $ 51,000
Studio: $ 52,500
Previous label: $ 50,000
Agent: $ 7,500
Lawyer: $ 12,000
Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25

Not a huge deal, unless you're them.

-AC
Where'd you get this?
Its cool.

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Where'd you get this?
Its cool.

It's an article written by Steve Albini; legendary record producer and music industry cornerstone.

-AC

I bet they but the 25 cents in a slot machine.... just for shits.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's an article written by Steve Albini; legendary record producer and music industry cornerstone.

-AC
Your sources never cease to amaze.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Did you flex your muscles for self-satisfaction when you said that? I'd imagine this has left you feeling a little sheepish.

-AC
does it feel good to be a drama queen? does it feel good to insult someone, and, when they defend themselves, to bash them? you started the insults. i only retaliated.
i imagine you as a lonely little man who has nothing better to do than to seek out oppurtunities to stir up a hornets nest.
BTW: i think that i have figured out why you are hostile towards me. and NO, i promised a certain someone i would not say why.

I don't think he was necessarily defending all artists, as it has effects on some bands that it doesn't on others, but his point was that you should stop it for the greater good, because it's a shit thing to do.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
does it feel good to be a drama queen? does it feel good to insult someone, and, when they defend themselves, to bash them? you started the insults. i only retaliated.
i imagine you as a lonely little man who has nothing better to do than to seek out oppurtunities to stir up a hornets nest.
BTW: i think that i have figured out why you are hostile towards me. and NO, i promised a certain someone i would not say why.

Oh please...could you be any more pathetic? If you're done, walk away, because sitting around doing shit like that will only make you look worse.

I've backed things up with facts and knocked your debate into the next millenia. You've provided...gay jokes and self-satisfaction.

-AC

So, programs like kazza, and Shareaza are illegel?

so i am pathetic for stating that you started this whole argument? i want to make sure that i get this straight.

Nope, File sharing programs are legal... but if you use them to download music or infringe copyright; you're breaking the law.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so i am pathetic for stating that you started this whole argument? i want to make sure that i get this straight.

I started a debate, you got your period simply because I'm better at it and more informed than you are. That's not my problem, that's yours for biting what you can't chew and spitting when you can't swallow.

-AC

No because "technically" they are not responsible for anything that gets shared. They provide the client and the warning to only share legal files.
If you ignore it, you are in trouble.
Its like gun manufactures not being in trouble for murders.

Although a number of file sharing programs have been tackled by the courts, WinMX included, which is why that is no longer available. Well at least not by the actual company.

I have no problem with downloading songs from the net.

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
No because "technically" they are not responsible for anything that gets shared. They provide the client and the warning to only share legal files.
If you ignore it, you are in trouble.
Its like gun manufactures not being in trouble for murders. I don't get it. The only purpose for these programs is to download things. So why are they there?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I started a debate, you got your period simply because I'm better at it and more informed than you are. That's not my problem, that's yours for biting what you can't chew and spitting when you can't swallow.

-AC
i started the debate by questioning what one should be paid for burning cd's. this is how you responded.....



My opinion on it is simple:

Everyone should eventually pay for all the music they own. That's my objective opinion.

Morally; I find all illegal downloading to be wrong. However, my morals are my own and I do not expect people to live by them. If you simply download to "preview" music, then I disagree with your actions also. That said, I know people who download to see if they like it, then buy it after, without question.

As long as, at the end of the day, you PAY for the music, I don't care what you do. If I had my way, downloading would be extinct. Realistically, it won't. So in the real world, I just believe people should pay for their music. Be it from a legal download site or with CDs.

If you sit there downloading repeatedly with no intention to pay; you're a scumbag and I hope a burglar steal your belongings.

-AC

AC and RJ...can you take this to PM's? I can already tell this is not going to end well, so you might as well keep the collateral damage to a minimum.

i am talking. he is insulting me. i know personally, from past conversations with him, that AC is a helluva guy. FJ thinks the the world of him. why he is behaving like this is beyond me.

but spear, you are right. i am gonna follow your advice and not respond to any more of his negative posts.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i started the debate by questioning what one should be paid for burning cd's. this is how you responded.....



My opinion on it is simple:

Everyone should eventually pay for all the music they own. That's my objective opinion.

Morally; I find all illegal downloading to be wrong. However, my morals are my own and I do not expect people to live by them. If you simply download to "preview" music, then I disagree with your actions also. That said, I know people who download to see if they like it, then buy it after, without question.

As long as, at the end of the day, you PAY for the music, I don't care what you do. If I had my way, downloading would be extinct. Realistically, it won't. So in the real world, I just believe people should pay for their music. Be it from a legal download site or with CDs.

If you sit there downloading repeatedly with no intention to pay; you're a scumbag and I hope a burglar steal your belongings.

-AC

Yes, and where's the problem? That was a civil post.

You started the thread to continue the debate because you cockily thought it would mean you'd win. I turned it back against you, because I simply know what I'm on about, and you're upset.

Debates are never personal, but I do think you're being stupid. If you're insulted by that, that's up to you. I'm debating you and youv'e taken a disliking, that's not my fault. You're the one who dedicated an entire post to dissing me. I've been on topic the whole time save for maybe a single post.

-AC

Aww... I was enjoying it, it certainly makes for an entertaining read.

i'm done. and i can just imagine what he will say when he reads that i am bowing out and, taking spears advice, being the bigger man.

Well this experience has sure taught me a lesson, I'm going to go and burn myself a CD.

No offense, RJ, but there was literally nothing more you could say. I proved you wrong at every point.

There was never going to be a standstill, in all honesty.

-AC

I think we call all agree that the poll proved nothing..

Actually the poll has 8:7 for downloading being acceptable.

Always consider a +/-1 margin of error

Yes, he said it proved nothing.

It hasn't proven anything besides some people find it acceptable. So what? If anyone in this thread or forum wishes to take up where RJ left off in this music legality and moral debate, please do. RJ created this thread to aid his debate, we see how far he got.

-AC

its OK, AC. i understand why you have it in for me. its not about our opinions on this matter, its about something else. I am truly sorry that you feel this way. i feel like a jackass for not seeing this sooner.

ps: i am not trying to go out on top here, guys, i really just realized what his problem with me is. AC, if you want to pm me and talk about it, fine.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
its OK, AC. i understand why you have it in for me. its not about our opinions on this matter, its about something else. I am truly sorry that you feel this way. i feel like a jackass for not seeing this sooner.

ps: i am not trying to go out on top here, guys, i really just realized what his problem with me is. AC, if you want to pm me and talk about it, fine.

The hell? I barely know you. I have nothing against you at all, this is nothing personal and I can't think of why you would believe so, to be honest. If it makes you sleep better, go for it.

I just don't understand all these excuses. I ruined your debate, you tried. That's it, it wasn't anything personal. I can't PM you anyway, you don't have the option.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
its OK, AC. i understand why you have it in for me. its not about our opinions on this matter, its about something else. I am truly sorry that you feel this way. i feel like a jackass for not seeing this sooner.

ps: i am not trying to go out on top here, guys, i really just realized what his problem with me is. AC, if you want to pm me and talk about it, fine.






Anyways, I don't think it's bad to download music. I buy most of my stuff, but sometimes I don't feel like spending $20 on CD just b/c I like ONE song on it.

Originally posted by Leo.M




Anyways, I don't think it's bad to download music. I buy most of my stuff, but sometimes I don't feel like spending $20 on CD just b/c I like ONE song on it.

So spend $00.99 on the song.

-AC

i know you and i barely know each other, but has realization ever just dawned upon you? ever realize something that you are sure is the truth and feel like a dumbshit for not seeing it before?
*has flashback to teens*

i am letting this go. if you respond to this post aggresively, you will have proven my point even further.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So spend $00.99 on the song.

-AC

I do.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i know you and i barely know each other, but has realization ever just dawned upon you? ever realize something that you are sure is the truth and feel like a dumbshit for not seeing it before?
*has flashback to teens*

i am letting this go. if you respond to this post aggresively, you will have proven my point even further.

I'm genuinely curious as to what it is you feel I have against you, but I can't PM you because the button isn't there, so I'm assuming you're not allowing PMs or something. Which I am willing to take this to.

-AC

leo!!!!
*lounges on leos couch*

FJ says hi!!!

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

I just don't understand all these excuses. I ruined your debate, you tried. That's it, it wasn't anything personal. I can't PM you anyway, you don't have the option.

-AC

what debate? there was no proving anyone wrong here that i saw.

Originally posted by The Pict
what debate? there was no proving anyone wrong here that i saw.

Well...then I suggest reading the thread.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm genuinely curious as to what it is you feel I have against you, but I can't PM you because the button isn't there, so I'm assuming you're not allowing PMs or something. Which I am willing to take this to.

-AC
lets just take it nowhere. lets be gentlemen, yes? you think i am wrong, i think you are wrong. we are obviously two hardheaded individuals. lets just agree to disagree and move on.

even though you know that i am right!!!!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
its OK, AC. i understand why you have it in for me. its not about our opinions on this matter, its about something else. I am truly sorry that you feel this way. i feel like a jackass for not seeing this sooner.

ps: i am not trying to go out on top here, guys, i really just realized what his problem with me is. AC, if you want to pm me and talk about it, fine.

Originally posted by The Pict
what debate? there was no proving anyone wrong here that i saw.
he stated his opinions, i stated mine. things got out of hand, simple as that. its all good. right AC?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The hell? I barely know you. I have nothing against you at all, this is nothing personal and I can't think of why you would believe so, to be honest. If it makes you sleep better, go for it.

Victim complex.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well...then I suggest reading the thread.

-AC

because you posted a list of expenses a band pays out? i doubt this is the average all singers/bands pay.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
leo!!!!
*lounges on leos couch*

FJ says hi!!!


oh


Tell her I say hi and that she owes me and Coldfire 50 cookies each.

me? a victim? hardly.

Originally posted by The Pict
because you posted a list of expenses a band pays out? i doubt this is the average all singers/bands pay.
Dude, Just read the whole thread and the other thread in the OTF about downloading music.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
lets just take it nowhere. lets be gentlemen, yes? you think i am wrong, i think you are wrong. we are obviously two hardheaded individuals. lets just agree to disagree and move on.

even though you know that i am right!!!! A ghost girl?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
lets just take it nowhere. lets be gentlemen, yes? you think i am wrong, i think you are wrong. we are obviously two hardheaded individuals. lets just agree to disagree and move on.

even though you know that i am right!!!!

The laughable thing is, you resorted to all this because you couldn't do anything on topic. I proved you wrong every step of the way with facts, sources and examples.

You have nothing more than making yourself feel like I hate you, when I've got 0 reasons to. So you're pulling out these personal bs, which is rather childish. I don't need you to agree that you're wrong, because you had nothing to begin with.

You created the thread, it backfired. It's nothing personal, you'll get over it, RJ.

-AC

what do you mean? ghost girl?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
what do you mean? ghost girl? Oh, i thought it said:
you know what i am, right?
but it actually said:
you know that i am right?

Originally posted by The Pict
I have man, I see opinions here, that get somewhat knocked, not any solid facts on the negative effects of dowloading music. This is the topic we are discussing, right?

Then you clearly haven't read the thread, because I've posted facts as to how the negative effects occur.

That's about the best I can do for ignorance. You'll either read or you won't.

-AC

Originally posted by The Pict
I have man, I see opinions here, that get somewhat knocked, not any solid facts on the negative effects of dowloading music. This is the topic we are discussing, right?

Yeah that's the topic being discussed... It's really only AC & RJ though; measuring their cocks with words.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then you clearly haven't read the thread, because I've posted facts as to how the negative effects occur.

That's about the best I can do for ignorance. You'll either read or you won't.

-AC

I already saw your list that you pasted. I don't believe that this can be used as hard evidence in this debate. Its not ignorance its my opinion, but i can already see the bash coming.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The laughable thing is, you resorted to all this because you couldn't do anything on topic. I proved you wrong every step of the way with facts, sources and examples.

You have nothing more than making yourself feel like I hate you, when I've got 0 reasons to. So you're pulling out these personal bs, which is rather childish. I don't need you to agree that you're wrong, because you had nothing to begin with.

You created the thread, it backfired. It's nothing personal, you'll get over it, RJ.

-AC
ok, i tried to be nice, but you wont let it go. the topic here is whether burning cd's is, in OUR OPINION, illegal, not if it IS ACTUALLY ILLEGAL. you never, not once, proved me wrong,. you merely stated your opinions. when i countered with my opinions, you resorted to name calling and insulting. how is that proving me wrong?
i might be wrong about the personal thing, only time will tell. if i am wrong, then so be it.
the thread never backfired. the thread is alive and going well. there is nothing to get over. i get to go home to FJ, so trust me, i WILL get over it.

Whos fj?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ok, i tried to be nice, but you wont let it go. the topic here is whether burning cd's is, in OUR OPINION, illegal, not if it IS ACTUALLY ILLEGAL. you never, not once, proved me wrong,.

Read that back. You said that the topic is if things are illegal in our opinion...but opinion doesn't decide what is legal and what isn't.

You can have an opinion on what SHOULD be legal or should be illegal, but if something IS illegal, then that's it. It's illegal, and using it/doing it is a crime. Such as illegal downloading.

You said you don't consider it a crime, that it was my opinion that it was a crime. I factually proved that it's a crime under federal legislation, so you switched to saying: "No I mean I don't think it SHOULD be illegal.".

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you merely stated your opinions. when i countered with my opinions, you resorted to name calling and insulting. how is that proving me wrong?

You said it was a crime in my opinion, I proved it was a crime factually. You bailed out with all this self-victimisation crap soon after.

You haven't countered me at all. It took two threads and many pages for me to get you to answer one question, you were scared. You didn't even answer it properly anyway.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i might be wrong about the personal thing, only time will tell. if i am wrong, then so be it.

You are. Nobody decides legality, what's so hard to understand? If it's illegal, the doing it/using it is a crime. Fact.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the thread never backfired. the thread is alive and going well. there is nothing to get over. i get to go home to FJ, so trust me, i WILL get over it.

Great, but you created this thread as if it was going to prove something, prove me wrong.

It's just been another platform for me, and additional others, to see how paper thin your debates are.

-AC

Originally posted by Flamboyant4Life
Is Limewire pro legal since you have to pay money to get it, and they ship it to you?

Limewire basic is legal...

I downloaded Limewire Pro off Limewire, so I'm not sure if they send it or not.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
ok, i tried to be nice, but you wont let it go. the topic here is whether burning cd's is, in OUR OPINION, illegal, not if it IS ACTUALLY ILLEGAL. you never, not once, proved me wrong,. you merely stated your opinions. when i countered with my opinions, you resorted to name calling and insulting. how is that proving me wrong?
i might be wrong about the personal thing, only time will tell. if i am wrong, then so be it.
the thread never backfired. the thread is alive and going well. there is nothing to get over. i get to go home to FJ, so trust me, i WILL get over it.

AC has stated facts like how much bands make with those stats, and overall he has presented a much better argument than you have with or without insults. Just admit it and move on.

Legal to have, legal to use unless you infringe on copyright laws... (So basically you can't download anything legally off it)

Legally the legal use of all legal material is illegal in most legal states. So the legal thing to do is illegaly download any legal material for an illegal purpose. That's what a legal eagle on an illegal ledge would legally do to an illegal item.


I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

Originally posted by bigbran
What's the point then?

Share files you've made yourself and shit.

Originally posted by bigbran
But it's right there! And don't the programs have lisences for the music?

Not a chance, the creators and publishers of the software aren't responsible if people abuse their software.

You usually agree to not breaching copyright laws though... you basically sign a contract saying you will not break the law using the program.

http://www.limewire.com/english/content/downloadfree.shtml

Yeah it's illegal, but there's nothing wrong with it in terms of morality. I do it all the time. What's the point of buying a 17-track CD when you only like maybe 2 or 3 of the songs? Its a complete waste of money.

I can understand purchasing a CD if you enjoy collecting, but otherwise you're just throwing money out the window.

There's nothing wrong with stealing, morally?

Originally posted by bigbran
I'm going to download something right now.

Such a rebel.

-AC

These days the most Ill do is download a handful of songs by bands Ive never listened to. If I like it enough, Ill go buy an album. If not, I end up deleting the songs. It may not be the moral way to go about buying music but I think I redeem myself.

Who would have expected to find AC in this thread?

It was created with the intention of thwarting me, believe it or not.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's nothing wrong with stealing, morally? It's easier to steal when you're not physically doing it. I feel more guilty stealing from a friend or someone that worked incredibly hard to earn it, than I do stealing from ACDC. I am buying a 30 Seconds to Mars album because their slaes were low. I am not going to buy an ACDC album.

EDIT: I also plan to start downloading singles using iTunes, once I am able to pay for it myself.

EDIT 2: I'd also sooner send the money directly to the musicians themselves and skip the part where the label's steal 90% of it.

Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
It's easier to steal when you're not physically doing it. I feel more guilty stealing from a friend or someone that worked incredibly hard to earn it, than I do stealing from ACDC. I am buying a 30 Seconds to Mars album because their slaes were low. I am not going to buy an ACDC album.

EDIT: I also plan to start downloading singles using iTunes, once I am able to pay for it myself.

EDIT 2: I'd also sooner send the money directly to the musicians themselves and skip the part where the label's steal 90% of it.

It's still stealing. Artists don't get much from iTunes sales, they get more from CD sales and even then, it's not much.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's still stealing.

I know.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Artists don't get much from iTunes sales, they get more from CD sales and even then, it's not much.

I hate that. Again, I'd sooner download it off the internet lllegally and send the musicians themselves the money then give it to record labels. Also, I would only download from iTunes because of the convience, I have never ever wanted to buy a single just because it seems like a waste of space to me.

Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
I'd sooner download it off the internet lllegally and send the musicians themselves the money then give it to record labels. Also, I would only download from iTunes because of the convience, I have never ever wanted to buy a single just because it seems like a waste of space to me.

I've never understood this villainising of record companies, it's pointless.

Their job is to make money, that's what their job is. They get paid to make money. In doing so, they distribute music, they give bands money to go and make albums, then they put it out there for us. If your band is good enough, and you are strong enough in your stance, they'll trust you.

E.g: Roadrunner Records have put out many shit acts, but they also have Opeth on their label. Opeth always do what they wanted to, when they wanted to and how they wanted to. Roadrunner never bother them. Why? Because they know that Opeth can sell on their own.

The reason the fill the world with shit music is because there are billions of idiots willing to throw their money away for it. Therefore, the record companies get richer and they don't have to be as concerned about trying to manipulate bands. They can rest on their laurels and rake in money from the Kelly Clarksons, Justin Timberlakes etc, while saying to the real bands: "Go on, do your thing.". However, they will always try to manipulate even the bands with the highest integrity, but if you allow yourself to be compromised, I fail to see how that's the record company's fault. You're just making their job easier.

If they think they can make money by marketing you a certain way, they'll try to get you to do that, but if you stand strong as many bands do/did, they'll eventually see that they can rely on you to sell records whilst doing whatever you want.

Record companies can be bad, but they get villainised way too often. You have to put these things in perspective.

-AC

It's bad, but I do it anyways. Not illegally, though.

hmm...something i heard in southpark...when you illegally download music, its bad because the artists won't be able to buy the huge jet they want and instead they have to settle for the medium sized jet...poor them...

Originally posted by Lyna303
hmm...something i heard in southpark...when you illegally download music, its bad because the artists won't be able to buy the huge jet they want and instead they have to settle for the medium sized jet...poor them... I was thinking about that episode this whole time!!

Originally posted by bigbran
I was thinking about that episode this whole time!!
yay! you sort of agree with me on something

Originally posted by Lyna303
yay! you sort of agree with me on something What are you talking about?

Originally posted by bigbran
What are you talking about?
skylar....did we not talk yesterday?

Oh ya.

Originally posted by Lyna303
hmm...something i heard in southpark...when you illegally download music, its bad because the artists won't be able to buy the huge jet they want and instead they have to settle for the medium sized jet...poor them...

If you take South Park 100% seriously, the joke is on you.

That show is made my people who threatened to sue YouTube for showing full episodes, because they don't like getting ripped off, and rightfully so.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you take South Park 100% seriously, the joke is on you.

That show is made my people who threatened to sue YouTube for showing full episodes, because they don't like getting ripped off, and rightfully so.

-AC my people?

Originally posted by bigbran
my people? Don't be a douche.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you take South Park 100% seriously, the joke is on you.

That show is made my people who threatened to sue YouTube for showing full episodes, because they don't like getting ripped off, and rightfully so.

-AC
of course no one takes southpark 100% seriously, but it does have a certain amount of truth to it...

i do it: yes

not good...:yes

i have no idea if limewire is even legal..

Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
i do it: yes

not good...:yes

i have no idea if limewire is even legal.. Limewire is legal, sharing copyrighted files on it is not.

so.. how'd you know if it's copyrighted?

Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
so.. how'd you know if it's copyrighted?
its sort of obvious...music files, movies...but not people who create it themselves online and want to share it...

so... downloading music aren't... right... then what the heck could you download there then?

and i thought there is something else which are copyrighted

Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
so... downloading music aren't... right... then what the heck could you download there then?

and i thought there is something else which are copyrighted
you download files from the internet...stuff that people want to share...

*shrugs* oh weellll...

Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
*shrugs* oh weellll...
yea...i just do it anyway...

uh-huh...

What if you download songs in a country where it isn't illegal?

I only download a song if I can't find it on CD. Still stealing, I know, but I don't care.

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
AC has stated facts like how much bands make with those stats, and overall he has presented a much better argument than you have with or without insults. Just admit it and move on.
AC's opinion is biased because he is a musician. thats like asking a cop if he or she agrees with capital punishment. of course they will say yes, because they see the worst of humanity on a daily basis.
thats what hit me, the fact that he was in the music biz. i was like "duh, of course he is gonna disagree."

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
AC's opinion is biased because he is a musician. thats like asking a cop if he or she agrees with capital punishment. of course they will say yes, because they see the worst of humanity on a daily basis.
thats what hit me, the fact that he was in the music biz. i was like "duh, of course he is gonna disagree." Facts are not opinions. He stated facts, and his opinion based on the facts. Biased as his opinion maybe, the facts are unadulterated.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you take South Park 100% seriously, the joke is on you.

That show is made my people who threatened to sue YouTube for showing full episodes, because they don't like getting ripped off, and rightfully so.

-AC
i love you tube!! i love watching ren and stimpy there.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
AC's opinion is biased because he is a musician. thats like asking a cop if he or she agrees with capital punishment. of course they will say yes, because they see the worst of humanity on a daily basis.
thats what hit me, the fact that he was in the music biz. i was like "duh, of course he is gonna disagree."



I doubt all cops believe that capital punishment is a good thing.

Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
Facts are not opinions. He stated facts, and his opinion based on the facts. Biased as his opinion maybe, the facts are unadulterated.
i never questioned the facts. i only stated that, in my opinion, the musicians are making their money anyways, so its not a big deal. some dont agree, and thats cool, they are entitled to their opinions.
even if he did not have the facts to back him up, he would disagree because of what he does, an i respect that.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It was created with the intention of thwarting me, believe it or not.

-AC
not really. i was genuinely curious as to others opinions here.

Originally posted by Sora The Brave
Led Zepplin, Knocking on Heaven's door. Not to my knowledge.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
My opinion on it is simple:

Everyone should eventually pay for all the music they own. That's my objective opinion.

Morally; I find all illegal downloading to be wrong. However, my morals are my own and I do not expect people to live by them. If you simply download to "preview" music, then I disagree with your actions also. That said, I know people who download to see if they like it, then buy it after, without question.

As long as, at the end of the day, you PAY for the music, I don't care what you do. If I had my way, downloading would be extinct. Realistically, it won't. So in the real world, I just believe people should pay for their music. Be it from a legal download site or with CDs.

If you sit there downloading repeatedly with no intention to pay; you're a scumbag and I hope a burglar steal your belongings.

-AC

AC is angry because he used kazaa and got a virus

I used to have Kazza for a while. I had over 1000 songs. It didn't mess up my computer, but i got rid of it because I heard they were starting to make you pay for it, so then I got Imesh, then Limewire. I use it everyday.

that would piss me off too.

Originally posted by DanZeke25
I used to have Kazza for a while. I had over 1000 songs. It didn't mess up my computer, but i got rid of it because I heard they were starting to make you pay for it, so then I got Imesh, then Limewire. I use it everyday. Limewire f'ed up my other computer.