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Hell is not a place you go after you die.

"god" sends annoying people to make redundant threads.

God sounds like an a$$hole.

"If you don't like my son, you'll all suffer enternal torture and hellfire!"

Originally posted by Draco69
God sounds like an a$$hole.

"If you don't like my son, you'll all suffer enternal torture and hellfire!"

"like?" Sir, this matter is not about whether you "like" Jesus or not.

You have to love him? Well, garsh, God most send about a million people to suffer eternal torment and damnation for not loving his son.

Jesus is spoiled...

God knowingly condemned me to Hell before I was born? If he truly wanted me to believe/worship him, he would not have given me the brain to question his existence, I will never be religious, and it's God's fault for creating me that way

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
God knowingly condemned me to Hell before I was born? If he truly wanted me to believe/worship him, he would not have given me the brain to question his existence, I will never be religious, and it's God's fault for creating me that way

Darth, I too questioned the Bible. I don't think that I ever questioned God's existence seriously, but I did question the Bible. God gave you a brain to think not to question His existence. Moreover, God gave you a brain to exercise your free will (power to choose). God is not going to force you to go to Heaven. God will not coerce you into witnessing the glory, wonder, and beauty of Heaven. I don't know about you but I can't wait to go to Heaven!

This is NOT an ABSOLUTE truth. Just Christian bias.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Darth, I too questioned the Bible. I don't think that I ever questioned God's existence seriously, but I did question the Bible. God gave you a brain to think not to question His existence. Moreover, God gave you a brain to exercise your free will (power to choose). God is not going to force you to go to Heaven. God will not coerce you into witnessing the glory, wonder, and beauty of Heaven. I don't know about you but I can't wait to go to Heaven!

You're not getting it, I have Free-Will, but if God is all powerful and wants us to believe/worship in him, he would understand why I do not, not to mention he would know I wouldn't before he decided to create me

Originally posted by Templares
This is NOT an ABSOLUTE truth. Just Christian bias.

Prove it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Prove it.

This is a very ironic statement....

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You're not getting it, I have Free-Will, but if God is all powerful and wants us to believe/worship in him, he would understand why I do not, not to mention he would know I wouldn't before he decided to create me

I don't believe that God wants to be worships. More like, God puts up with it.

I think God likes, maybe even loves, to be worshipped because everyone likes to be complimented. But, worship is only an expression of love (or it may be empty). God weighs the heart.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You're not getting it, I have Free-Will, but if God is all powerful and wants us to believe/worship in him, he would understand why I do not, not to mention he would know I wouldn't before he decided to create me

You don't believe because you are being blinded by the god of this world (i.e., satan) or because you willingly choose to suppress the Truth of the Bible.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You don't believe because you are being blinded by the god of this world (i.e., satan) or because you willingly choose to suppress the Truth of the Bible.

There is no Satan.

Just ask your average Muslim.

From the Quran:

And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

EDIT: This was in response to JIA.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You don't believe because you are being blinded by the god of this world (i.e., satan) or because you willingly choose to suppress the Truth of the Bible.

Don't worry. Buffy the Vampire Slayer fights back the Forces of Satan for us. Her and her lesbian Wiccan Jewish sidekick Willow.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You don't believe because you are being blinded by the god of this world (i.e., satan) or because you willingly choose to suppress the Truth of the Bible.

Umm, are you accusing me of Satinism?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Umm, are you accusing me of Satinism?

I don't know, but he sure is judging you.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Umm, are you accusing me of Satinism?
No, but he is stating that you are being influenced by Satan with lies.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Umm, are you accusing me of Satinism?

Read my lips, I mean my words: No, I am not accusing you of satanism. But satan blinds the minds of all who do not believe the gospel.

2 Corinthians 4:4
whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ , who is the image of God, should shine on them.

So he's calling me a fool?

I don't believe in any Religions because the belief system is flawed in many, they were created by Humans, and many emphasize on people with differant and non-religions going to Hell. No benevolent God would send the Good people to eternal pain just because they doubted his existence. And if he isn't a Benevolent God, then there is no point in following him

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
So he's calling me a fool?

I don't believe in any Religions because the belief system is flawed in many, they were created by Humans, and many emphasize on people with differant and non-religions going to Hell. No benevolent God would send the Good people to eternal pain just because they doubted his existence. And if he isn't a Benevolent God, then there is no point in following him

Your logic is not sensible. God is holy (sin-less) that is why He cannot allow sin in His presence. But He made a way for humanity to get back into right relationship with Him through His Son Jesus. God is not trying to send people to Hell, He is trying to keep them from going to Hell. Why do you think He allowed His only Son to go through so much pain (spiritual and physical) to save you, me, and everyone else?

confused

But didn't God create me, he made me who I am for a purpose, that purpose obviously isnt to be religious, unless you would like to admit that your Perfect God was wrong

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
confused

But didn't God create me, he made me who I am for a purpose, that purpose obviously isnt to be religious, unless you would like to admit that your Perfect God was wrong
God doesn't want religion. He wants a personal relationship with you because He loves you. God gave you the ability to love so that maybe you could love him back.

But he created me knowing full well that I would not believe in him

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
But he created me knowing full well that I would not believe in him
He gave you the chance because you have heard about him and have been told how to come into a relationship with him. Since, you have chosen not to, the consequences are on your own hands. But remember that God will take at any time that you choose to come to him because he loves you that much.

But if he created me, and is this perfect ultimate being, he would know that my brain has the intelligence to question his existence, which I used, and he is to blame, as well as the non-convincing Priests that were supposed to convert me

Nice, Bible Verses, read my previous post

Originally posted by Draco69
Don't worry. Buffy the Vampire Slayer fights back the Forces of Satan for us. Her and her lesbian Wiccan Jewish sidekick Willow. If I had to choose a sidekick I'd probably go with a lesbian Jewish Wicca.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
But if he created me, and is this perfect ultimate being, he would know that my brain has the intelligence to question his existence, which I used, and he is to blame, as well as the non-convincing Priests that were supposed to convert me
God understands your doubts because he created you to be skeptical, logical, and rational. But that does not mean that He is to blame for your unbelief. The Bible says that Jesus is knocking on your door. If you open it it says He WILL come in. You have nothing to lose by openning that door. If He isn't real He will not enter and if He is He will enter and that would be awesome.

So it's Insurance? If I began to "Worship" God just so I could get into Heaven, then I would be commiting sin since I really don't believe in him, God obviously doesn't want me to believe if he exists, and wants a differant life for me, since he created me to not believe any of the stuff I hear

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
So it's Insurance? If I began to "Worship" God just so I could get into Heaven, then I would be commiting sin since I really don't believe in him, God obviously doesn't want me to believe if he exists, and wants a differant life for me, since he created me to not believe any of the stuff I hear
No, its you sacrificing your pride and humbling yourself so that you will be open to the truth. God wants you to gibve up the weak characteristics of the flesh that hold you back so that you can know him.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Nice, Bible Verses, read my previous post

I know you are being sarcastic but I have another one for you since you like them so much. It describes your situation precisely.

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself .

Did you get that? Although at the moment you are faithless Darth, Jesus the Christ, the Son of the living God cannot deny Himself. To pick up on what Nellinator said, and I quote, "You have nothing to lose by openning that door. If He isn't real He will not enter and if He is He will enter and that would be awesome."

Originally posted by Nellinator
No, its you sacrificing your pride and humbling yourself so that you will be open to the truth. God wants you to gibve up the weak characteristics of the flesh that hold you back so that you can know him.

But God knows by now that I will never believe him unless he comes LITERALLY knocking on my door, therefore any false-belief attempts I make to get into Heaven, would be lies, and therefore sinful, guess I'm stuck in Hell no matter what, thanks God

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
But God knows by now that I will never believe him unless he comes LITERALLY knocking on my door, therefore any false-belief attempts I make to get into Heaven, would be lies, and therefore sinful, guess I'm stuck in Hell no matter what, thanks God
You can still open the door at any time. Remember that and I can sleep better because I will have hope for you. May the peace of God be with you.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You can still open the door at any time. Remember that and I can sleep better because I will have hope for you. May the peace of God be with you.
But I can not, it's stuck into my Skull, Human Mind is very powerful, and once something is set in there, it's not going out. Unless of course again, God/Jesus comes for me personally so I know for a fact their existence

That probably would've sounded more convincing if I wasn't wearing my yummy sushi pajamas.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
But I can not, it's stuck into my Skull, Human Mind is very powerful, and once something is set in there, it's not going out. Unless of course again, God/Jesus comes for me personally so I know for a fact their existence
God is far more powerful than the human mind because he created it. You cannot because you will not. Remember Jesus will sit outside your door all day knocking, so whenever you open the door he will be there with gifts and love and every good and perfect thing. I recommend you choose to open the door, I cannot tell you how much it changed my life for the better. From depression and lonliness to happiness, peace, contentness, prosperity, and love. I will pray for you tonight.

Originally posted by Nellinator
God is far more powerful than the human mind because he created it. You cannot because you will not. Remember Jesus will sit outside your door all day knocking, so whenever you open the door he will be there with gifts and love and every good and perfect thing. I recommend you choose to open the door, I cannot tell you how much it changed my life for the better. From depression and lonliness to happiness, peace, contentness, prosperity, and love. I will pray for you tonight.

If God would like to change my mind, and truly wants to, he knows it's going to take more than some Preachers, and my Grandmother(Heavily Christian) to do it

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
If God would like to change my mind, and truly wants to, he knows it's going to take more than some Preachers, and my Grandmother(Heavily Christian) to do it
You are right. It's gonna take a lot of prayer. I hope someone agrees with me prayer tonight. I will always have hope for you and any non-believer.

Final Statements in previous post JesusIsAlive ^

Originally posted by Nellinator
You are right. It's gonna take a lot of prayer. I hope someone agrees with me prayer tonight. I will always have hope for you and any non-believer.

I will agree with you in prayer tonight. In fact I just did.

Matthew 18:19
“Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven.

wait, im jewish....so should i go against my faith(which i really don't see any organized religion as logical, so I wont go as far as to call it my faith) and become a christian and open the door for the jesus im forbidden to believe in?


Back to the orginal question of the thread. If I'm a good person who doesn't believe in god, do I burn for all of eternity?

Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
wait, im jewish....so should i go against my faith(which i really don't see any organized religion as logical, so I wont go as far as to call it my faith) and become a christian and open the door for the jesus im forbidden to believe in?


Back to the orginal question of the thread. If I'm a good person who doesn't believe in god, do I burn for all of eternity?

Yes. God will skewer with melted bullets, anally rape your anus with cactus thorns and force you to watch a wildebeast eat your mother and father alive.

It's Hell after all!

If you haven't accepted Jesus, God will torture beyond imagination in Hell.

He's so Great!

God is great, god is good, let us thank him if we could......

yes, yes, i must watch out for the one they call "god"

http://jatinpatel.net/img-post/god.jpg

Yep, yep.......I saw that "Far Side" before..........lol

ohhhhh and for those who are watching..........there is no hell.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So bad people can go to Heaven as long as they fear God and beleive in Christ ?

Where did all those Inquisitors go ? Where did those men who burnt the women from the Salem Witch Trials go after they died ?
How are we supposed to know? God made the decision, not us.
Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
wait, im jewish....so should i go against my faith(which i really don't see any organized religion as logical, so I wont go as far as to call it my faith) and become a christian and open the door for the jesus im forbidden to believe in?


Back to the orginal question of the thread. If I'm a good person who doesn't believe in god, do I burn for all of eternity? If you die without Christ then yes.

And for all those that say God throws us into hell. You need to understand that God does not choose to throw you into hell, rather, you choose not to go to heaven. Jesus told us how to get there and its a one way street. If we choose not to follow his directions we will be lost and have choosen to go elsewhere.

oh, ok, that clears it up. It must be that the people who believe in Jesus are right, and the rest of us will burn in eternal fires and suffer the wrth of the devil because we were brought up under a different belief system. All mighty and forgiving god. :/

Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
oh, ok, that clears it up. It must be that the people who believe in Jesus are right, and the rest of us will burn in eternal fires and suffer the wrth of the devil because we were brought up under a different belief system. All mighty and forgiving god. :/

Haha. Don't you love the God JIA believes in.

Originally posted by Nellinator
How are we supposed to know? God made the decision, not us.
If you die without Christ then yes.


You're telling me you don't know ? You know where I'll end up if I dont convert, but you can't tell me where the hell those people went after the kinds of lives they lived ?

Doesn't your little religion give reference as to where one goes for committing certain acts ?

HA ! How unreliable your Faith is....


Originally posted by Nellinator
If you die without Christ then yes.


So I will suffer the SAME fate as Adolf Hitler even though he and I are nothing alike ?

Wow...your God is definately one of immense Logic and reason

What a JOKE....


Originally posted by Nellinator
And for all those that say God throws us into hell. You need to understand that God does not choose to throw you into hell, rather, you choose not to go to heaven. Jesus told us how to get there and its a one way street. If we choose not to follow his directions we will be lost and have choosen to go elsewhere.


No one chooses to go to Hell. Nobody knows how to get there, there's no map....WE did not create it, God created it for us. Therefore, no matter how you put it, he puts us there if we don't obey him. That simple.

You can't choose to go somewhere you know nothing about.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
No one chooses to go to Hell. Nobody knows how to get there, there's no map....WE did not create it, God created it for us. Therefore, no matter how you put it, he puts us there if we don't obey him. That simple.
You can't choose to go somewhere you know nothing about.
The Bible is a map to heaven. You can choose to follow the directions or not. You don't choose to go to hell, instead you choose not to go to heaven.

Originally posted by Nellinator
The Bible is a map to heaven. You can choose to follow the directions or not. You don't choose to go to hell, instead you choose not to go to heaven.

Hence that leaves the only other option.

God sends you to Hell if you don't obey him.

End of Story. Wow...what a loving God Sounds more like a jealous and controlling boyfreind than an actual diety.

Originally posted by Nellinator
The Bible is a map to heaven. You can choose to follow the directions or not. You don't choose to go to hell, instead you choose not to go to heaven.

Last time I tried using the Bible as a map I ended up walking into a tree. Maybe it would do better if God updated it. The Bible GPS or something.

^ There is nothing to be saved from.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Adam's sin nature was transmitted to each and every human being born subsequent to him. Believe it or not we are all descendants of Adam. Adam was the first man. He screwed it up for everyone born after him. That is why we die.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death , but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Adam's sin is what allowed death to enter his nature and his nature was passed to the world. That is why there is death: because of Adam's sin. The wages of sin is death.

The old testament especially as far back as adam is heavily disputed. Take a look in genesis when noah is about to set sail on the ark, it states first that he should ahve seven pairs of each animal but then red a little farther and it states just one pair. Plus everything was destroyed in the flood even all the people so technically if we go by the bible all modern day people are descendants of noah. Abel had a wife who was not his sister so therefore other peoples had to have existed at the same time as adam and eve. My point is that genesis is very hard to rely on and


My question to JIA is what about all the people who don't have the opportunity to hear gods word? You obviously know a lot so you know that god is fair and just right so even if they grow believing soemthign else how could he condemn them to hell? Plus there is a belief in purgatory as well so if you don't accept christ initally you can still go to purgatory and eventually make it to heaven. No one can know exactly who goes to heaven and hell. There are great people out there, non-christian, who have better moral values than many christians. To say they won't make it to heaven is ridiculous because how can you convice a person with a strong belief in his religion to believ what you beleiev without any proof that your right. You say you know the truth about Jesus, but hypothetically speaking what if a muslim tried to convert you. What if he was right but you thought you were right. Does god then send you to hell because you didn't belive the right thing. God has compassion, and therefore people need to be judged by their actions not for their beliefs

disregard the and at the end of the first paragraph, there was nothign more to say

Originally posted by lord xyz
You're a joke.

Absolutely.

his intentions are good, but his ideas suggest that theres no room for grey and everythign is black and white. In my opinion, if god is suppose to be so loving, caring, and compassionate then there has to be room in heaven for people who are good people in general even with an unclean record.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Absolutely.

Originally posted by Alliance


It is the only thing that is Absolute, I think...

Perhaps ints not...there are scenarios.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Darth, I too questioned the Bible. I don't think that I ever questioned God's existence seriously, but I did question the Bible. God gave you a brain to think not to question His existence. Moreover, God gave you a brain to exercise your free will (power to choose). God is not going to force you to go to Heaven. God will not coerce you into witnessing the glory, wonder, and beauty of Heaven. I don't know about you but I can't wait to go to Heaven!

And now that it works for you it must work that same way for everyone else...I hope I speak for us all when I say I appreciate your willingness and good nature to tell us all how happy you are with your life and beliefs...good for you...I'm happy that your happy and you should be happy that I (like God) wont force or try and coerce you to believe or appreciate my values in life.

... is it just me or does that statement contradict?

Originally posted by Alliance
... is it just me or does that statement contradict?

It's you, I thought it was well said.

The first sentance concerns me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Your logic is not sensible. God is holy (sin-less) that is why He cannot allow sin in His presence. But He made a way for humanity to get back into right relationship with Him through His Son Jesus. God is not trying to send people to Hell, He is trying to keep them from going to Hell. Why do you think He allowed His only Son to go through so much pain (spiritual and physical) to save you, me, and everyone else?

Well he doesn't seem to be trying very hard... once every 2000 years? That's one lazy mf-er. Oh wait I forgot to count the grilled cheese sandwich incident that happened down South. Maybe he figured that would be a little more efficient than sacrificing his son. I can think of many more compassionate ways to try and lead people down a life filled with love, kindness and hard work. But being lazy and crazy? not a good combo for someone who is supposed to lead by example. Shit we already got a lazy and crazy leader in N. America. But I think I understand why you want people to be saved. It's the declining morality of our society right? There's too many people trying to make other hardworking, kind people believe in their flawed ways of thinking, right?

Originally posted by Alliance
The first sentance concerns me.

Yes I admit my first sentance was a bit harsh compared to the rest of the statement, but I spoke plainly. I have the impression he was trying to coerce the poster he replied to into his mode of belief. If that was not his intention than I would gladly discuss it with him. I apologize if your offended by by my statement. I hope that explanation is helpful.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It's you, I thought it was well said.

ty

Originally posted by lord xyz
You're a joke.

I'll drink to that !

you are so blind,
u have a chance to repent and admit you're wrong and to believe.

z0mg, blame it on teh SATAN!!11

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
z0mg, blame it on teh SATAN!!11

lolz

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
his intentions are good, but his ideas suggest that theres no room for grey and everythign is black and white. In my opinion, if god is suppose to be so loving, caring, and compassionate then there has to be room in heaven for people who are good people in general even with an unclean record.

My response:

Luke 19:10, the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Being good? Selfless? Helpful?

Friend, according to God (Jesus Christ) humanity is lost. There is a "spiritual" problem at the root of humanity's condition of being lost. We are all sinners in need of salvation.

2 Peter 3:9, The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

That is why we must repent. The Greek word for repent is "metanoeo" {met-an-o-eh'-o} it means to "change one's mind." God desires all people to repent "from sin" and turn toward Him for salvation from sin.


1 Timothy 2:3-4, For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

We need salvation if we are not already saved. Being good, selfless, and helpful should FOLLOW one's salvation experience, not be the cause of it. You see a person can be all of those things yet die in their sins and go to Hell. Get saved FIRST then your good deeds will become as fruit and Christ Jesus will reward you accordingly.

John 3:15-17, whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son , that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

We must BELIEVE IN Jesus Christ in order to be saved. We are saved THROUGH CHRIST JESUS not through our good deeds. But our good deeds will get us a reward, so there is some incentive to being good, selfless, and helpful.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

All of our self-righteous acts/deeds are like filthy rags to God. We can never DO enough nice things, good things, or commendable things in order to attain salvation. We need Christ Jesus for that.

Romans 3:10
As it is written:


There is none righteous, no, not one ;

No person is GOOD enough to go into God's presence in Heaven. Apart from Christ we are all UN-righteous, lost, and spiritually dead in trespasses and sins.

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ , to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Figuratively speaking, God STAMPS us RIGHTEOUS as it were once we each "personally" put our faith or trust in Christ Jesus for salvation from sin. It is not possible to be rigteous in God's eyes through good deeds. Our good deeds will ONLY result in a reward ONCE we are saved. But our good deeds DO NOT save us or make us righteous in God's eyes.

Romans 3:24-28
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus , whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus .

Those who trust Jesus for salvation from sin are DECLARED RIGHTEOUS by God the Father. This "right-relationship" or "right-standing" before God is done for us freely by God's grace (underserved favor). For this reason it is futile to attempt to get to Heaven on good works. Salvation is free for us but it cost God the Father His Son. So, God the Father "justifies" or declares "just" (or righteous) those who have FAITH in Jesus FOR salvation. There is nothing that we can do to make ourselves good enough before God. Only God can "justify" us before Himself and that is what He does for those who realize that they can never be good enough to stand in His presence.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith , we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ ,

There is amazing consistency among the Scriptures that we are justified (declared "good enough" to stand in God's presence, in lay-man's terms).

Galatians 2:16
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ , even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Works of the law is a reference to keeping the Law of Moses. We are not saved by keeping the Ten Commandments or other laws contained in the Law of Moses. Again, amazing continuity and consistency between the Old Testament and New Testament. We are not justifed by the works of the law (of Moses) or by our good works, but ONLY through our personal faith in the Son of God--Jesus the Christ.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves ; it is the gift of God ,

By grace: God the Father's love and grace motivated Him to send His only Son to die for the sins of the entire world so that we could be saved from the consequences of our sins.

Through faith: We appropriate what Jesus accomplished on OUR BEHALF by faith (personal, earnest trust in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin).

Not of yourselves: we are NOT saved by our selflessness, helpfulness, or good deeds. The Word of God continually reiterates this and has made it abundantly clear.

It is the gift of God: Friends, no matter how hard you try you CANNOT earn or merit a gift. Salvation from sin is a FREE gift provided by God but held in trust as it were IN CHRIST.

Philippians 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness , which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith ;

Our righteousness is not self-attained but applied to our lives respectively THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. This is a constant, steadfast, reality shown throughout the New Testament.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Again, we are NOT saved by our good works no matter how helpful, selfless, or commendable.

Titus 3:5-7
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior , that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This verse sums up everything that I have written, succinctly.

I hope this helps.

Spam always tastes bad.

Originally posted by meep-meep
And now that it works for you it must work that same way for everyone else...I hope I speak for us all when I say I appreciate your willingness and good nature to tell us all how happy you are with your life and beliefs...good for you...I'm happy that your happy and you should be happy that I (like God) wont force or try and coerce you to believe or appreciate my values in life.

Did I ever say anything about being happy with my life and beliefs or did you put words in my mouth? I mean that may be true but I don't recall ever making this statement.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Did I ever say anything about being happy with my life and beliefs or did you put words in my mouth? I mean that may be true but I don't recall ever making this statement.

That's right, from my experience, Christianity is based on suffering, not happiness.

so wait, god needed his son to die in order to forgive our sins? Who tells their son, "Hey, go get nailed to cross after getting the shit beaten out of you with various weapons, bleed, dehydrate and suffocate to eath, then I'll let these people into heaven. I mean, it's not like I have the power to let them in without you dying, right?"

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
My response:

Luke 19:10, the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Being good? Selfless? Helpful?

Friend, according to God (Jesus Christ) humanity is lost. There is a "spiritual" problem at the root of humanity's condition of being lost. We are all sinners in need of salvation.

2 Peter 3:9, The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

That is why we must repent. The Greek word for repent is "metanoeo" {met-an-o-eh'-o} it means to "change one's mind." God desires all people to repent "from sin" and turn toward Him for salvation from sin.


1 Timothy 2:3-4, For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

We need salvation if we are not already saved. Being good, selfless, and helpful should FOLLOW one's salvation experience, not be the cause of it. You see a person can be all of those things yet die in their sins and go to Hell. Get saved FIRST then your good deeds will become as fruit and Christ Jesus will reward you accordingly.

John 3:15-17, whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son , that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

We must BELIEVE IN Jesus Christ in order to be saved. We are saved THROUGH CHRIST JESUS not through our good deeds. But our good deeds will get us a reward, so there is some incentive to being good, selfless, and helpful.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

All of our self-righteous acts/deeds are like filthy rags to God. We can never DO enough nice things, good things, or commendable things in order to attain salvation. We need Christ Jesus for that.

Romans 3:10
As it is written:


There is none righteous, no, not one ;

No person is GOOD enough to go into God's presence in Heaven. Apart from Christ we are all UN-righteous, lost, and spiritually dead in trespasses and sins.

Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ , to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Figuratively speaking, God STAMPS us RIGHTEOUS as it were once we each "personally" put our faith or trust in Christ Jesus for salvation from sin. It is not possible to be rigteous in God's eyes through good deeds. Our good deeds will ONLY result in a reward ONCE we are saved. But our good deeds DO NOT save us or make us righteous in God's eyes.

Romans 3:24-28
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus , whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus .

Those who trust Jesus for salvation from sin are DECLARED RIGHTEOUS by God the Father. This "right-relationship" or "right-standing" before God is done for us freely by God's grace (underserved favor). For this reason it is futile to attempt to get to Heaven on good works. Salvation is free for us but it cost God the Father His Son. So, God the Father "justifies" or declares "just" (or righteous) those who have FAITH in Jesus FOR salvation. There is nothing that we can do to make ourselves good enough before God. Only God can "justify" us before Himself and that is what He does for those who realize that they can never be good enough to stand in His presence.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith , we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ ,

There is amazing consistency among the Scriptures that we are justified (declared "good enough" to stand in God's presence, in lay-man's terms).

Galatians 2:16
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ , even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Works of the law is a reference to keeping the Law of Moses. We are not saved by keeping the Ten Commandments or other laws contained in the Law of Moses. Again, amazing continuity and consistency between the Old Testament and New Testament. We are not justifed by the works of the law (of Moses) or by our good works, but ONLY through our personal faith in the Son of God--Jesus the Christ.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves ; it is the gift of God ,

By grace: God the Father's love and grace motivated Him to send His only Son to die for the sins of the entire world so that we could be saved from the consequences of our sins.

Through faith: We appropriate what Jesus accomplished on OUR BEHALF by faith (personal, earnest trust in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin).

Not of yourselves: we are NOT saved by our selflessness, helpfulness, or good deeds. The Word of God continually reiterates this and has made it abundantly clear.

It is the gift of God: Friends, no matter how hard you try you CANNOT earn or merit a gift. Salvation from sin is a FREE gift provided by God but held in trust as it were IN CHRIST.

Philippians 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness , which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith ;

Our righteousness is not self-attained but applied to our lives respectively THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. This is a constant, steadfast, reality shown throughout the New Testament.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Again, we are NOT saved by our good works no matter how helpful, selfless, or commendable.

Titus 3:5-7
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior , that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This verse sums up everything that I have written, succinctly.

I hope this helps.

Repentance is important, i agree with you that people need to do that. I don't agree however that god looks on faith in jesus alone to determine who goes to heaven or not. Look at the old testament for example, the laws and rules in there were supposed to be followed by jews, there was no date set upon stopping these practices. Then Jesus comes into the picture and says this is the way to get into heaven. Despite the fact that they did everythign right as God commanded, Jesus says this is the way to get into heaven now. To me i see this as times changing and that what once was needed to get into heaven or be closer to god was to follow the laws of judaism, then in jesus's time his code to get into heaven ahd changed because now we were introducing gentiles into the picture. I understand that revelation had ended with jews and christians alike, however, we live in a new age, a lot different from 2000 years ago. I'm not saying i think god lowered the moral code for acceptable behavior, but to say that the only accpetable manners in which to make it to heaven are what the new testament states is hard for me to accept. I do believe Jesus was the messiah, but I think that there is more opportunity out there for people than faith in christ alone. Especially since we aren't able to see the miracles he performed which were the primary reason people followed him and believed him. How else coudl he have convinced people. Thast why i think a lot of people in this forum as well as other atheist/agnostic people have a hard time believing it. For the people 2000 years ago it wasn't blind faith because they saw things happen. For us we can't prove what happened in the bible so to a certain degree it is blind faith. Thats why I think god is more compassionate about people of different beliefs

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is the only thing that is Absolute, I think... w00t I knew my anti-theistic ways would be apreciated some day.

So basically you could murder and kill but then accept Jesus and you are AIIIIGHT?

yes, according to many verisons of christianity.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
I can't accept the idea that only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven.

...well thats what the bible says.

Originally posted by Alliance
...well thats what the bible says.

I no it does and its validity is questioned, corruption by the early church leaders and up through the 16th century was very prominent. Its quite possible that many ideas were twisted from there original meaning to meet the church leaders own personal desiresor to get people to just believe in jesus. You don't have to take the bible word for word to be a christian, I use it to better my life and to worship on sundays, not to detetrmine whose goign to heaven or not. Thats not for me to decide, only god.

Is it possible that the ideas were twisted from the beginning, or that there was no Jesus?

Jesus is just a concept?

Originally posted by Alliance
Is it possible that the ideas were twisted from the beginning, or that there was no Jesus?

Jesus is just a concept?

I have pondered that, however, I'm more convinced now because there are records from the jews of that time that say he existed even though they didn't really have any nice things to say.

theres not really no historical documentation.

Its the concept that is important, as in all mythology.

The Jews have many written records speaking of Jesus. They even admit that he performed miracles, but that is was a magician. There is also Roman documentation of one Jesus being crucified under Pontius Pilate. Muslims also hold that he existed. Jesus was a real person. It is up to you to decide whether or not he was the Messiah.

I have stated before that I dont believe those "documentations" are factual.

Why would Jews write a history including Jesus if they hated him?

Dont be foolish, they didnt write one.

Yes, they did. It still exists.

No. They didn't write one.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Why would Jews write a history including Jesus if they hated him?

They didn't hate him. They just didn't accept him as thier Messiah...

Mary Magdeline, Mother Mary, Joseph, and all the Apostles were Jewish, as was Jesus himself.

I doubt they hated him....he didn't invent Christianity....he never gave it a name...it came about after he died.

Before Jesus was born, the Hebrews believed Jesus to be the reincarnated form of David (You know, the guy with the sling shot). They thought Jesus would be the guy who would help them fight their enemies and become their king and saviour. However, Jesus spoke of different things, and, although some jews were frightened and of a different belief, others thought it was marvelous and thus, came Christianity.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Before Jesus was born, the Hebrews believed Jesus to be the reincarnated form of David (You know, the guy with the sling shot). They thought Jesus would be the guy who would help them fight their enemies and become their king and saviour. However, Jesus spoke of different things, and, although some jews were frightened and of a different belief, others thought it was marvelous and thus, came Christianity.

Prove it or at least offer some type of substantiation. Yeah, I use the Bible but what do you use?

Fiction is not fact.

Originally posted by crazy
So basically you could murder and kill but then accept Jesus and you are AIIIIGHT?

If you are sincere. But just know this crazy: God is not mocked, for whatever a person sows, that shall he/she reap also.

"god is not mocked"

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If you are sincere. But just know this crazy: God is not mocked, for whatever a person sows, that shall he/she reap also.

So you believe in karma.

Does that make him Hindu?

Nahhhh it's just cause and effect...

Originally posted by Alliance
Does that make him Hindu?

Hopefully. No... wait, I like Hinduism, I wouldn't like JIA bringing his style of belief to it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Nahhhh it's just cause and effect...

Exactly. There is at least one intelligent woman on this forum.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Exactly. There is at least one intelligent woman on this forum.

But you don't believe in cause and effect.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Exactly. There is at least one intelligent woman on this forum.

Perception and definition. One mans cause and effect is another mans karma.

YES.......Same thing.

Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
yes, yes, i must watch out for the one they call "god"

http://jatinpatel.net/img-post/god.jpg

What is the purpose of a post like this?

If God sends any good people to hell, it is (in my opinion-but what the heck do I really know?) because they haven't chosen to bring Him into their personal lives.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is the purpose of a post like this?

What purpose do your posts have?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What is the purpose of a post like this? Typically it is termed "comedic relief." It often intended to relieve a build up as tension.

If you refer to the image, well, that is termed "humorous art", intended to cause the relative aspect of people to respond with an almost barking sound termed a "laugh."

If you are referring to the content of the "humorous art", I can only assume you would recognize the individual at the keyboard as a caricature of God, but since the question is presented I will provide further explanation. It appears that the artist has taken a lesson from Jack Chick and has provided a possibly erroneous, yet humorous, piece of artwork showing God as smiting on a whim.

Now, seriously, if we have a sense of humor, it follows that God must, given that we are created in the image of said God. I would believe that God would see this image and laugh.

Originally posted by Regret
Typically it is termed "comedic relief." It often intended to relieve a build up as tension.

If you refer to the image, well, that is termed "humorous art", intended to cause the relative aspect of people to respond with an almost barking sound termed a "laugh."

If you are referring to the content of the "humorous art", I can only assume you would recognize the individual at the keyboard as a caricature of God, but since the question is presented I will provide further explanation. It appears that the artist has taken a lesson from Jack Chick and has provided a possibly erroneous, yet humorous, piece of artwork showing God as smiting on a whim.

Now, seriously, if we have a sense of humor, it follows that God must, given that we are created in the image of said God. I would believe that God would see this image and laugh.

However I think this post is funnier.hysterical

And quite insulting to JIA.

Originally posted by Jim Reaper
Heaven will be a desolate place... God may have to pull some soul's from hell, so he dosen't get lonely.

I wounder how JIA would feel, if god let people, who JIA thinks should be in hell, into heaven?



Not like I believe in that kind of heaven or hell.

I've been to hell many times............I don't like it there.......

Hell has beautiful natural rock formations.

Originally posted by Alliance
Hell has beautiful natural rock formations.

Ya, but you are too depressed to enjoy them.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ya, but you are too depressed to enjoy them.

I don't know, I like geology, if I was in a place with fascinating examples of something I am really interested in, then I think that would detract from any depression.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ya, but you are too depressed to enjoy them.

No, they're verey cool. Black volcanic shards jutting out of the ground.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~social/wayne-picture-of-the-day/grand-cayman-town-of-hell.jpg

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I wounder how JIA would feel, if god let people, who JIA thinks should be in hell, into heaven?



Not like I believe in that kind of heaven or hell.

I don't think anyone should be in Hell, not even you.

but yo uare so quick to shove people there...

Sheer ignorance contiues to amaze me.

And btw, the quote is just another example of your predestined fate. The Christian god allows no free will.

This is hillarious.

What basis do you have for determining that the bible is the true religous text, and the others aren't.

Don't you just love Fundamentalists?

Are the rock formations Orange?........I love orange....Well the color of burning embers...

Oh, and Jesus said Don't judge or you will be judged in like manner

It's kind of a sowing and reaping thing.........look it is even happening on this thread.........lol

Its the law of Karma in Jesus' words.

Originally posted by King Kandy
This is hillarious.

What basis do you have for determining that the bible is the true religous text, and the others aren't.

The Bible is not a religious text, it is the Word of the living God. All others are "religious" texts but they do not reveal the True God and His plan for Humanity.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible is not a religious text, it is the Word of the living God. All others are "religious" texts but they do not reveal the True God and His plan for Humanity. Oh really?.................oh, wow!!

*looks again in the fiction department* LOOK! Winnie the Poo.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't think anyone should be in Hell, not even you.

Do you really think though, that good people "deserve" to go to Hell ?

Yes, he does. It's how he was raised and brainwashed.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Yes, he does. It's how he was raised and brainwashed.




I know, but I'd like to hear him admit it for himself. It sickens me that he says much shit, but when confronted with a sincere question, he refuses to answer so not to appear "wrong" or "corrected".

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Yes, he does. It's how he was raised and brainwashed.

How did you know that the answer was yes?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
How did you know that the answer was yes?

Okay....so you think that people who dont beleive in Christ DESERVE to go to Hell ?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
How did you know that the answer was yes?

Because that is how you were raised and brainwashed?