Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Characters on superhero teams range in powers, skills etc. So when taking into account the all-round abilities of characters which ones are least useful? Which team member could a team do without and still function perfectly well on the following teams:

Astonishing X-Men
Fantastic Four
The original JLA
The Authority
New Avengers
Teen Titans (before Infinite Crisis)

Or any other teams you can think of. And why?

The New Avengers could probably do without Ronin because she's only been in like 2 issues or something. Actually is Ronin (Echo) even on the team still?

Yeah, Ronin is a pretty obvious choice for the New Avengers considering the team has actually been functioning perfectly well without her. It's not even a hypothetical.

Astonishing X-Men - Wolverine. Beast would be second in line but his genius outclasses him....

Fantastic Four - That's a toughie. They're all so integral to the team. I'd have to say the Human Torch. Thing is needed as a pure brawler and brick. But Johnny's powers aren't that special...

JLA - Batman. His genius is overrated. MM and Superman are smarter than him. Aquaman is the most powerful man on Earth politically. He rules 3/4s of it...

The Authority - Don't know much about them. But that girl with the wings seems pretty damn useless....

New Avengers - Ronin. Spider Woman. Luke Cage. They all seem so useless with Iron Man and Sentry on the team....

Teen Titans - To be absolutely honest, Wonder Girl. With Starfire on the team, she's already outclassed. Her only schtick was lassoing something and frying it with her magic lightening....

I agree with most of that, the girl with the wings is named Swift.

Except I'd probably put Thing below Torch, if Mr Fantastic wants to he can amp himself up to high strength levels and Torch has more versatility.

And for the Titans, Speedy seems less useful than Wonder Girl but I suppose she adds something different to the team.

No offense to Speedy but she's HIV positive. Unless DCU has some miracle cocktail, she's more of a baggage to the team than a help.

However she DID trap Superboy Prime in the Phantom Zone so that's a plus.

Her plot device arrows really do come through....

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Characters on superhero teams range in powers, skills etc. So when taking into account the all-round abilities of characters which ones are least useful? Which team member could a team do without and still function perfectly well on the following teams:

Astonishing X-Men
Fantastic Four
The original JLA
The Authority
New Avengers
Teen Titans (before Infinite Crisis)

Or any other teams you can think of. And why?

Astonishing X-Men - In combat, Beast, Generally, Wolverine...
Fantastic Four - Ben or Johnny, not sure...
The original JLA - In combat, Batman, Generally, i have to say Diana... *hides from draco*
The Authority - Don't know anythig about them...
New Avengers - Spider Woman i suppose... Or this Ronin person, but i havent read any issues with Ronin in the team so i don't know...
Teen Titans (before Infinite Crisis) - Cassie... Cyborg and Superboy are the muscle... she has the lasso, but thats not enough imo...

Orginal Angel, or the current one (I can't tell what good is he, he has healing properties but that's about it)

i think its funny as hell when they went to one of luhtor's labs to find a cure for Conner she was all like luthor wouldnt happen to have a cure for HIV does he?...thier was like a panel that depicted awkward silence it was funny as hell i swear.
actually i think Ronin is very useful cuz she's the expert on ninja cults and shit like that. and she can infiltrate like nobody's business.

as for the FF. its a tossup between IW, and Reed himslef. cuz 3/4 of the battles they get into is bcuz of him..simply due to the fact that they have to visit EVERY f ****ing dimension or new planet they discover....then boom when they get there t always turns out that its a place ruled by a despot and they have to over throw him b4 they leave..to you know, free the ppl. i remember a few years ago Reed, stark, PYm were discussing ways to help humanity by inventing incredible devices but they were all hesistant cuz corrupt govts would likey want weapons instead.

other than the fact than insane assholes always seek them out for revenge, i dont see why they have to fight. they dont foil bank robberies, they dont stop terrorists, they only stop would be world conquerers when they literally show up on thier doorstep. so what are they here for. then IW lames it up by going on and on about her children every two seconds....so im like ok why not just stay home and be a good mom you stupid whore? who says you gotta go out there and shake hands with aliens arrgghh...i just wanna shake her!!

Heh, not exactly what I meant by "Least useful..." but entertaining nonetheless.

Some more teams:
The Inhumans (not really a team per se but meh)
Runaways
Young Avengers
Alpha Flight
The Outsiders
Excalibur
JSA
Thunderbolts
Birds of Prey

For any of these it need not be the most recent incarnation of the team.

Originally posted by Draco69

JLA - Batman. His genius is overrated. MM and Superman are smarter than him. Aquaman is the most powerful man on Earth politically. He rules 3/4s of it...

You guys are crazy, Batman is probably the guy they need the most because his lack of powers he is forced to think of different ways to win and is sometimes overlooked because of his powers, case in point when the JLA was attacked by the aliens waaaaay back and he was overlooked because he didnt have powers and rescued everyones sorry butts plus he found a way to beat most of the JLA. The JLA has too many powerhouses, If u have Superman u really dont need Wonder Woman, Hawkman or any other strong character. Batman is integral to the group.

Originally posted by manjaro

as for the FF. its a tossup between IW, and Reed himslef. cuz 3/4 of the battles they get into is bcuz of him..simply due to the fact that they have to visit EVERY f ****ing dimension or new planet they discover....then boom when they get there t always turns out that its a place ruled by a despot and they have to over throw him b4 they leave..to you know, free the ppl. i remember a few years ago Reed, stark, PYm were discussing ways to help humanity by inventing incredible devices but they were all hesistant cuz corrupt govts would likey want weapons instead.


I think u r wrong on this one. Sue is the most powerful member of the team and Reed could compensate himself for the lack of Bens strenght in the team, If he was a bit more like Doom he would create a couple o robots to assist them. They could easily do without Ben or Johnny.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Heh, not exactly what I meant by "Least useful..." but entertaining nonetheless.

Some more teams:
The Inhumans (not really a team per se but meh)
Runaways
Young Avengers
Alpha Flight
The Outsiders
Excalibur
JSA
Thunderbolts
Birds of Prey

For any of these it need not be the most recent incarnation of the team.

I think WE would be fine with some of this teams out of existence entirely. Runaways we can live witout. Alpha Flight never ammounts to nothing and the Young Avengers sooner than later will become useless.

Astonishing X-Men - Cyclops , He's basically Emma's walking mutant sex-slave .

Fantastic Four - Hmmm thats a toughie ..I'd have to go with Thing , even though i think he's pretty cool (plus he get's the best comedy moments) since Reed can amp himself to Thing levels


The original JLA - Realistically batman , but then he brings a Jobber Aura the size of aisa with him so he's pretty much essential.


The Authority - I've always wondered how swift got on the team

"Hey I can control buildings and make mechs and stuff"

"Were gay rip-offs of Batman and Superman"

"I'm a hippie Doctor strange"

"I can...err fly real fast and cut stuff"

*Everyone pauses and laughs at swift*


New Avengers - All of them , minus Sentry, IM, Cap and Spidey (Maybe Cage as well)

The Inhumans - Medua , she can control her hair..whoop-de-do , oh better yet Triton....

Triton - I can only live in water

GF - How the f*ck is that a superpower , seems more like a hindrance to me ?

Triton - Uhhh..cause it is !

Runaways - Kid who controls a dinosaur , pointless and unnecessary. Get more Victor he's badass.

Young Avengers - Wiccan (I don't hate gay's , I just dislike his character and think his powers suck)

Excalibur - Any American , it's a friggen BRITISH superhero team .

JSA - Hourman , he's basically a juicer the JSA don't need that kind of bad publicity

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I think WE would be fine with some of this teams out of existence entirely. Runaways we can live witout. Alpha Flight never ammounts to nothing and the Young Avengers sooner than later will become useless. Speak for yourself. Runaways and Young Avengers are two of the best titles around, and Alpha Flight amounts to quite alot if you actually read their series.


Astonishing X-Men - I guess Wolverine. I think this is a solid team though, and everyone pulls equal weight.
Fantastic Four - Human Torch. Sue can compensate for his raw power and flight.
The original JLA - I would say Batman, but really, he's proved himself time and time again on the JLA. In fact, i think all the big 7 have.
The Authority - The winged girl. Probably.
New Avengers - I think since Ronin hasn't actually been on the team yet, we can't say she's the least useful. I'd probably go with... Luke Cage.
The Inhumans - Maximus. What... he's an Inhuman.
Runaways - Originally i'd think Chase, but Gert and her raptor are pretty useless. or... were.
Young Avengers - Hawkeye.
Alpha Flight - Major Mapleleaf anyone?
Excalibur - Dazzler
Thunderbolts - Blizzard

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I think WE would be fine with some of this teams out of existence entirely. Runaways we can live witout. Alpha Flight never ammounts to nothing and the Young Avengers sooner than later will become useless. Okay, clearly you've never read Runaways or Young Avengers, the quality of which both art and writing surpasses several of the more mainstream titles often.
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Speak for yourself. Runaways and Young Avengers are two of the best titles around, and Alpha Flight amounts to quite alot if you actually read their series.Ditto on Runaways and YA. Alpha Flight have never interested me much, but they definitely serve a niche.

Originally posted by Draco69
New Avengers - Ronin. Spider Woman. Luke Cage. They all seem so useless with Iron Man and Sentry on the team....

Ronin isn't really even on the team... she just helped out in that one story for about 2 - 3 issues

I'd say Spider-Woman is more useful than Cage as well due to the fact that she can influence people with her pheromones .... and can fly

Realistically though, Cap is the most useless one... yeah he's a decent leader.... but Stark led the Avengers for a while as well, Spider-Woman is a SHIELD agent, Wolverine has more experience than cap, Spider-Man is more agile, everyone except Wolverine is stronger than him, everyone is more durable than him, Spider-Man and Iron Man are smarter than him, Sentry outclasses him in pretty much every way

If it wasn't for the fact that he wears the US flag he would've been dropped from Marvel ages ago

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I think WE would be fine with some of this teams out of existence entirely. Runaways we can live witout. Alpha Flight never ammounts to nothing and the Young Avengers sooner than later will become useless.

The Runaways saved the world from their evil parents though...... .... plus it's a good read



Originally posted by grey fox
Runaways - Kid who controls a dinosaur , pointless and unnecessary. Get more Victor he's badass.

They already killed her off

Originally posted by Scoobless
They already killed her off

YES !!!

Well technically the kid who controls the dinosaur is now Chase. He also controls the ship they travel in and seems to have some innate mechanical engineering skills, so I dunno whether I'd put him as the most useless; although it's probably either him or Molly.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Well technically the kid who controls the dinosaur is now Chase. He also controls the ship they travel in and seems to have some innate mechanical engineering skills, so I dunno whether I'd put him as the most useless; although it's probably either him or Molly.

Molly is possibly one of the strongest beings on the planet (if what Cloak says is true)

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4358/runaways12p05xl5.th.jpg http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3604/runaways12p06zg5.th.jpg

Originally posted by Draco69
The Authority - Don't know much about them. But that girl with the wings seems pretty damn useless....

They get away with it by having Swift fly the Carrier (Angie helps too). She's also an (admittedly struggling) Buddhist, so she's much more pacifist than anyone on the team (except maybe The Doctor) to provide a moral contrast. But yeah, otherwise she's rather pointless.

But she only came on because she's ex-Stormwatch with Jenny and Jack, back before everyone on the team was insanely powerful.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Molly is possibly one of the strongest beings on the planet (if what Cloak says is true)

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4358/runaways12p05xl5.th.jpg http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3604/runaways12p06zg5.th.jpg I'd like her to be, (because it would be incredibly and amusingly ironic). But she's listed as a 3 tonner. Her powers are psi-based though, so it may have affected Cloak's cloak in some unknown manner.

She's just a kid though so her powers will likely grow with time.

Completely irrelevant, but I just read Runaways #19, Nico did the dirty with Victor... shock I guess he's an anatomically correct android in every way...

She's performed greater than 3 ton feats.... I'm reasonably sure (though I haven't double checked that fact)

But if she is psi based she may end up with Superboy style tactile telekinesis

Well I'm assuming she's psi-based. I don't think it's been stated. But her parents were both telepaths, and her eyes glow in the same way suggesting a nonphysical basis for her superstrength.

She probably has performed >3 ton feats, but iirc the stated 3 ton thing is from Brian K Vaughn himself.

On topic, it's probably more useful to have a brawler than a dinosaur controller on the team.

I'm surprised no one has retaliated at my statement of "Captain America is the most useless Avenger" .... where the hell is King Kam?

Most of the NA team is relatively useless though when you've got "throw him in the sun", "power of million suns" Sentry on the team and Iron Man.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Most of the NA team is relatively useless though when you've got "throw him in the sun", "power of million suns" Sentry on the team and Iron Man.

Yeah... but when he's tied up fighting The Collective or Genis or Zemo or Thor ... or whoever... the rest of the team will have to fend for themselves

Well discounting that they're all relatively useless compared to Sentry and Iron Man, and if one doesn't include Ronin as part of the team then yeah objectively Captain America would probably be next voted off the island.

Astonishing X-Men - Wolverine Beast is 50% of what he is in feral form and more important while he is smart.
Fantastic Four - Err...have to say Johnny. This is the hardest decision, though.
The original JLA - Batman.
The Authority - Swift by far.
New Avengers - Cage
Teen Titans (before Infinite Crisis) - Wonder Girl
The Inhumans (not really a team per se but meh) - Triton
Runaways - Currently? Chase, I guess.
Young Avengers - The stupid arrow girl.
Alpha Flight - Hmm...Puck.
The Outsiders - Thunder
Excalibur - Nocturne?
JSA - Dr. Mid-Nite
Thunderbolts - Blizzard
Birds of Prey - Huntress

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Young Avengers - The stupid arrow girl. That should be her codename.

Fantastic Four: I'd have to say Ben is the least useful, Sue can hit as hard as him, Reed can bulk up to near his mass, Sue's forcefields have better durability than him .... and so does Reed

No-one on the team can duplicate/mimic Torch's energy powers, his speed or his agility in the air

Astonishing X-Men- they could function without Emma as she turned against them

Fantastic Four- Human Torch

The original JLA-Hawkman

The Authority-No idea

New Avengers-Ronin

Teen Titans (before Infinite Crisis) -Not sure, Cyborg maybe

Originally posted by Draco69
JLA - Batman.

I agree that Superman has Batman beat in some categories of smarts. However, it's pretty clear that strategy, deductive reasoning, detective skills, coming up with plans for everybody, and understanding criminal minds for the JLA to cope with the threat is Batman's specialty. The JLA have expressed their dependence on Batman before. I'm sure you've read "JLA: Divided We Fall."

With that said, I'd say Aquaman.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Okay, clearly you've never read Runaways or Young Avengers, the quality of which both art and writing surpasses several of the more mainstream titles often.
Ditto on Runaways and YA. Alpha Flight have never interested me much, but they definitely serve a niche.

Au contraire my friend. I have every issue of Young Avengers, complete first volume and evry issue of the 2nd volume so far of Runaways and i have read a lot of Alpha Flight. That beng said, I liked Runaways when it first came out because it was an interesting concept like the Thunderboltes when they first came out but as I read Runaways I always thought "How long can they stretch this storyline, it would have to end sooner or later" but it was good because it was enterntaining, then it finished and I was ok with it because it had a good story with a decisive ending but then they made volume 2 i guess just to milk the success of the first one but I really dont think it will last. Mollys feat of pulling Cloaks cloak it was a way for the writer to make her powerful even if he had a stablished hero like Cloak to do it. I like reading Runaways, I think Victor and Karolina are the koolest characters but if it is cancelled tomorrow, no biggie. Young Avengers i like, it was created to feel the void when the Avengers disassembled and it has potential to be something like Teen Titans but i dont like the gay characters, I feel they were just created just for the "controversial" factor and maybe to bring readers in. Its been good but not great and again if it was cancelled tomorrow, no biggie. Alpha Flight has never ammounted to anything. It has had like 4 or 5 runs and they all get cancelled, why? because they sucked. I think the best thing they have done was die in New Avengers and when they make a new AF series it will get cancelled too. IMO.

Originally posted by batdude123
I agree that Superman has Batman beat in some categories of smarts. However, it's pretty clear that strategy, deductive reasoning, detective skills, coming up with plans for everybody, and understanding criminal minds for the JLA to cope with the threat is Batman's specialty. The JLA have expressed their dependence on Batman before. I'm sure you've read "JLA: Divided We Fall."

Yeah but that's still moronic considering Manhunter could easily handle that stuff. J'onn is definitely the superior strategist as per Bruce's own words. Then again, Batman and JLA Batman aren't the same character at all. JLA Batman comes up with solutions to everything on the fly as if he has Cosmic Awareness. Batman takes 8 issues just to solve a crime based on Two Face. I don't really see how anyone can enjoy JLA Batman.

Originally posted by Validus
Yeah but that's still moronic considering Manhunter could easily handle that stuff. J'onn is definitely the superior strategist as per Bruce's own words. Then again, Batman and JLA Batman aren't the same character at all. JLA Batman comes up with solutions to everything on the fly as if he has Cosmic Awareness. Batman takes 8 issues just to solve a crime based on Two Face. I don't really see how anyone can enjoy JLA Batman.

J'onn has also been shown saying he isn't even close to being the strategist or the detective that Batman is. JLA Batman's sole purpose is to be the genius and to be the strategist. His ability to compete with beings such as White Martians in JLA comics gets a little rediculous actually, so you're right about that.

Originally posted by batdude123
J'onn has also been shown saying he isn't even close to being the strategist or the detective that Batman is. JLA Batman's sole purpose is to be the genius and to be the strategist.
That's what I mean though. Superman and J'onn are dumbed down in order for Batman to do something meaningful. No other character on the League has such a clear distinction between their JLA versions and solo series versions unless it's something negative like GL not being as effective as he should be. If JLA Bruce had a conversation with solo Bruce, he'd probably call him retarded.

Let's not even get into Superman/Batman Bruce.

Originally posted by Validus
That's what I mean though. Superman and J'onn are dumbed down in order for Batman to do something meaningful. No other character on the League has such a clear distinction between their JLA versions and solo series versions unless it's something negative like GL not being as effective as he should be. If JLA Bruce had a conversation with solo Bruce, he'd probably call him retarded.

He still has his uses to the League. Moreso than Aquaman. There are just some parts of intellect that the other leaguers don't have as well tuned as he does. That's why they depend on him for stuff. He's the strategist and detective. Even in his own series, Batman does stuff like that as well.

Originally posted by batdude123
He still has his uses to the League. Moreso than Aquaman. There are just some parts of intellect that the other leaguers don't have as well tuned as he does. That's why they depend on him for stuff. He's the strategist and detective. Even in his own series, Batman does stuff like that as well.
Of course he does that stuff in his own series. Just not nearly as well. If he did Gotham would be a utopia. Come on, he can stop herald level guys in a few panels over in JLA but "Hush" is a 12 issue arc of Batman?

Originally posted by Validus
Of course he does that stuff in his own series. Just not nearly as well. If he did Gotham would be a utopia. Come on, he can stop herald level guys in a few panels over in JLA but "Hush" is a 12 issue arc of Batman?

I've always wondered why Batman hasn't taken down every crook in Gotham. hmm He certainly has the brains, and he certainly has the resources for it. It's just to keep his comics going.

Inhumans : Medusa. Elastic hair?

Runaways: Chase

Young Avengers: Patriot. He's a poor fighter and he gets hurt all the time. Hawkeye is a far better fighter and her arrows are much more useful than shield that can't even take a laser blast. PLUS, she's the financial backing of the teams. She's rich. Patriot is poor...

Alpha Flight: Puck

Excalibur: Pete Wisdom. Hot knives?! Nocturne's possession power is an infamous last-resort tactic that has saved the Exiles' asses numerous times.

JSA - Wildcat. Dr. Mid-Nite is the surgeon who can save your ass when Solomon Grundy has ripped out your guts...

Thunderbolts - Blizzard

Birds of Prey - Huntress

Originally posted by Draco69
JSA - Wildcat. Dr. Mid-Nite is the surgeon who can save your ass when Solomon Grundy has ripped out your guts...

Exactly. Imo Wildcat has absolutely no use in the JSA. He's a waste.

Astonishing X-Men- Wolverine, by far.
Fantastic Four- The Thing, although he's the coolest.
The original JLA- Acquaman. Sorry, but for me he's just poor man's Namor.
The Authority- Don't know so much about then.
New Avengers- Luke Cage.
Teen Titans (before Infinite Crisis)- I don't care.

Co-sign to Wildcat

And trying to find a weak link in the FF is pretty tough. As teams go, they're more balanced than most. I'd vote Thing if I had to, but they're all quite useful and needed.

Astonishing X-Men - Shadowcat

Fantastic Four - The Human Torch. Any offensive firepower he brings to the fight could be accounted for by Reed with a little prep

The original JLA - Aquaman

The Authority - Swift

New Avengers - Luke Cage

Teen Titans (before Infinite Crisis) - Speedy

Noone cares about Aquaman...until he summons the largest army on Earth.

Seriously Atlantis is the premier of magic on DC Earth and its vast resources far outstrip any other Leaguers except of WW and Green Lantern.

Batman's rich? Arthur's ten times richer. He has alchemists that makes gold out of seashells for him....

Originally posted by TheKahn
Astonishing X-Men - Shadowcat

Fantastic Four - The Human Torch. Any offensive firepower he brings to the fight could be accounted for by Reed with a little prep

The original JLA - Aquaman

The Authority - Swift

New Avengers - Luke Cage

Teen Titans (before Infinite Crisis) - Speedy

Shadowcat is definitely the most useful with Emma Frost following

Like when the Nega-Sentinel was about to nuke the team. Wolverine couldn't save them

Originally posted by Draco69
Shadowcat is definitely the most useful with Emma Frost following

Like when the Nega-Sentinel was about to nuke the team. Wolverine couldn't save them

I didn't mean to suggest that Kitty isn't useful at all. I was thinking more along the lines of who helps to round out the team overall and would allow them to deal with most threats.

Cyke- leader and offensive powerhouse
Emma- telepath
Beast- medical and tech
Colossus- super-strong brick

And I had a toss up between Kitty and Wolvie. The reason Wolverine got the slight edge is that I though his covert intelligence and military training/contacts might be more helpful as well as the fact that Marvel has now seemed to decided the hairy runt in indestructible.

Originally posted by Draco69
Noone cares about Aquaman...until he summons the largest army on Earth.

Seriously Atlantis is the premier of magic on DC Earth and its vast resources far outstrip any other Leaguers except of WW and Green Lantern.

Batman's rich? Arthur's ten times richer. He has alchemists that makes gold out of seashells for him....
Agreed. I don't see how Aquaman is considered useless unless we're taking Superfriends here. Shit, the magic hand alone is pretty damn useful.

Also, he was able to develope fail safes for everyone in the league, and he's useless? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Fail safes that were stolen and almost ended up killing them all.

Yeah... That's re---al useful.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Fail safes that were stolen and almost ended up killing them all.

Yeah... That's re---al useful.

Yeah, they kicked him off the team for it. But guess what? They couldn't have Batman be off the team for long. They made him a member again. And it's usefull if one of them goes insane, or double crosses the league.

Which admittedly, does happen quite often.

Still, J'onn could easily come up with fail safes for the team. That would be more effective, and more sfae IMO.

Originally posted by batdude123
I've always wondered why Batman hasn't taken down every crook in Gotham. hmm He certainly has the brains, and he certainly has the resources for it. It's just to keep his comics going.

Bats would have been dead a long time ago as well...

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Which admittedly, does happen quite often.

Still, J'onn could easily come up with fail safes for the team. That would be more effective, and more sfae IMO.

How? The JLA have expressed their dependency on him MANY times. Even J'onn has admitted so. My point is Batman has his place.

Originally posted by batdude123
How? The JLA have expressed their dependency on him MANY times. Even J'onn has admitted so. My point is Batman has his place.

Canonically? Yes.

Logically and realistically taking account all the characters' abilities? No.

He's on the JLA because he's Batman.

Originally posted by Draco69
Canonically? Yes.

Logically and realistically taking account all the characters' abilities? No.

He's on the JLA because he's Batman.

I agree that in some terms of intellect, they don't need him. But as a strategizer and as a detective? Even J'onn has admitted they need him in those departments.

Originally posted by Draco69
Canonically? Yes.

Logically and realistically taking account all the characters' abilities? No.

He's on the JLA because he's Batman.


No no no no no no no no no no no no ....... he's THE Batman!

Originally posted by batdude123
I agree that in some terms of intellect, they don't need him. But as a strategizer and as a detective? Even J'onn has admitted they need him in those departments.

Strategically? Eh. Diana's a cream of the crop strategy general. She's an Amazon after all. War is their picnic. And Martian Manhunter spent centuries at war as a general against White Martians and the like.

Detective? Batman is useful for his resources on crime. But they can always just call him up if they need him.

They spend more time fighting a giant hell-demon threatening the solar system. Not supercriminals they could fight by themselves.

Originally posted by Draco69
Strategically? Eh. Diana's a cream of the crop strategy general. She's an Amazon after all. War is their picnic. And Martian Manhunter spent centuries at war as a general against White Martians and the like.

Detective? Batman is useful for his resources on crime. But they can always just call him up if they need him.

They spend more time fighting a giant hell-demon threatening the solar system. Not supercriminals they could fight by themselves.

Apparently, in comics experience means absolutely DICK. I'm serious. The BEST martial artist in comic book history is Karate Kid who's just a 16 year old punk kid. So, with that in mind, it is said often enough, and it's been shown often enough that strategizing is Batman's "bag" so to speak.

I agree with you on the hell fire lord thing. But, his genius is usually needed by the JLA at one point or another. He can make himself think like criminals, so that they are able to trace and track the criminal. Again, detective work is Batman's "bag" considering he's the best detective on EARTH.

Originally posted by batdude123
Apparently, in comics experience means absolutely DICK. I'm serious. The BEST martial artist in comic book history is Karate Kid who's just a 16 year old punk kid. So, with that in mind, it is said often enough, and it's been shown often enough that strategizing is Batman's "bag" so to speak.

I agree with you on the hell fire lord thing. But, his genius is usually needed by the JLA at one point or another. He can make himself think like criminals, so that they are able to trace and track the criminal. Again, detective work is Batman's "bag" considering he's the best detective on EARTH.

Detective is a good thing. But not a necessity for the JLA. The CSI wouldn't be useful if a giant space octupus is attacking New York now would it?

As I said, canonically you absolutely correct that Batman is essential since his mere presence reduces the IQ of everyone around him by 20 points....

Realistically, though? No. Not really....

Originally posted by Draco69
Detective is a good thing. But not a necessity for the JLA. The CSI wouldn't be useful if a giant space octupus is attacking New York now would it?

As I said, canonically you absolutely correct that Batman is essential since his mere presence reduces the IQ of everyone around him by 20 points....

Realistically, though? No. Not really....

So we're just supposed to ignore reoccuring instances in comics just because you don't like them? J'onn and Batman usually interchange with their strategizing skills in the JLA. They have expressed their dependency on him before. He's there to be the overall strategizer for the team. But, if you want to get nasty, what's the reason for WW to be on the team? Female canon fodder.

Originally posted by batdude123
So we're just supposed to ignore reoccuring instances in comics just because you don't like them? J'onn and Batman usually interchange with their strategizing skills in the JLA. But, if you want to get nasty, what's the reason for WW to be on the team? Female canon fodder.

As I said, CANONICALLY (which means in the comic) Batman is essential to the team.

But when you really think about it logically and you factor in what everybody else can do, he's not that special. J'onn's already a detective. Not as good as Bats. But good enough.

Diana is the magic forte. She's also the highly-skilled combatant that can take down most opponents.

If the team is facing a Norse God or something crawling out of Tarturus, she leads the team.

Superman is sci-fi. WW is myth.

Originally posted by Draco69
As I said, CANONICALLY (which means in the comic) Batman is essential to the team.

But when you really think about it logically and you factor in what everybody else can do, he's not that special. J'onn's already a detective. Not as good as Bats. But good enough.

Diana is the magic forte. She's also the highly-skilled combatant that can take down most opponents.

If the team is facing a Norse God or something crawling out of Tarturus, she leads the team.

Superman is sci-fi. WW is myth.

And for strategem, it's Batman. MM has admitted this. Why would he lie? J'onn is good, but even in his own series, he isn't as good of a strategizer as Batman. He comes up with the overall plans. To be honest, they don't even need Plastic Man. They have him covered with Martian Manhunter.

Originally posted by batdude123
And for strategem, it's Batman. MM has admitted this. Why would he lie? J'onn is good, but even in his own series, he isn't as good of a strategizer as Batman. He comes up with the overall plans. To be honest, they don't even need Plastic Man. They have him covered with Martian Manhunter.


Strategm. Batman is canonically for some reason or another better than two people who were fighting wars when he was pooing in a diaper. Realistically they should be better than him.

Batman IS kinda like Captain America on the team. When he isn't being a dick...

Plastic Man is comic relief through and through. The purpose of the Fernus storyline was to make two underrated characters look good.

Originally posted by Draco69
Strategm. Batman is canonically for some reason or another better than two people who were fighting wars when he was pooing in a diaper. Realistically they should be better than him.

Batman IS kinda like Captain America on the team. When he isn't being a dick...

Plastic Man is comic relief through and through. The purpose of the Fernus storyline was to make two underrated characters look good.

Again, experience doesn't hold any ground for ANY reason in comics. Fighting skills, intellect, etc.

There's a difference between intellect, and wisdom. It's obvious Batman is the intellectual, while they perhaps have more wisdom. But, his strategizing skills come in handy.

And why exactly is it only canonically there, when it's plain as can see that strategy and detective skills are what he's best at in the group? Is Superman not the strongest? Is J'onn not a good combination of Batman and Superman? Is Kyle not the most powerful? Is Flash not the fastest? Is Wonder Woman not the most magically wisdom filled group member?

Originally posted by batdude123
Again, experience doesn't hold any ground for ANY reason in comics. Fighting skills, intellect, etc.

There's a difference between intellect, and wisdom. It's obvious Batman is the intellectual, while they perhaps have more wisdom. But, his strategizing skills come in handy.

And why exactly is it only canonically there, when it's plain as can see that strategy and detective skills are what he's best at in the group? Is Superman not the strongest? Is J'onn not a good combination of Batman and Superman? Is Kyle not the most powerful? Is Flash not the fastest? Is Wonder Woman not the most magically wisdom filled group member?

You're not getting it....

Canonically. In the comics. By the writers. Batman is the best strategist.


Realistically. Logically. If you REALLY think about it. No, Batman shouldn't be the best at strategm or detective work.

It's like Flash losing to the Rogues or ANYBODY in the comics when he should lose at ALL....

Am I making sense?

Originally posted by Draco69
You're not getting it....

Canonically. In the comics. By the writers. Batman is the best strategist.


Realistically. Logically. If you REALLY think about it. No, Batman shouldn't be the best at strategm or detective work.

It's like Flash losing to the Rogues or ANYBODY in the comics when he should lose at ALL....

Am I making sense?

If they aren't, then why logically are they? You aren't making sense here. It aplies to everything in comics. Comics don't make sense. They aren't shown to be, so why are we to assume so?

Originally posted by batdude123
If they aren't, then why logically are they? You aren't making sense here. It aplies to everything in comics. Comics don't make sense. They aren't shown to be, so why are we to assume so?

'Cause we make sense on this forum.

In the comics, Plastic Man was the only one was telepathically immune to Fernus...which is bull since Green Lantern has uber psi shields and Diana is as immune to telepathy as a piece of granite.

Don't know why Green Arrow or Hawkgirl is on the new team...

Unless they give Hawkgirl the magic-nullifying Nth metal like they did in the JLU. THAN she would be useful.

Originally posted by Draco69
'Cause we make sense on this forum.

In the comics, Plastic Man was the only one was telepathically immune to Fernus...which is bull since Green Lantern has uber psi shields and Diana is as immune to telepathy as a piece of granite.

Don't know why Green Arrow or Hawkgirl is on the new team...

Unless they give Hawkgirl the magic-nullifying Nth metal like they did in the JLU. THAN she would be useful.

It's wrong to disregard what is shown on panel. Example: Captain America only had combat training for only what, a couple of months? But guess what, he's one of the very best fighters in the Marvel universe. Are we supposed to discredit all that he's done simply because he doesn't have the kind of EXPERIENCE that Wolverine does? No, we should not look past what goes on in the comics. After all, that's the only basis of comparison we use here.

Originally posted by batdude123
So we're just supposed to ignore reoccuring instances in comics just because you don't like them?
Says the Captain Atom fanboy.

Originally posted by Validus
Says the Captain Atom fanboy.

For the record, he isn't even a top five favorite of mine.

Originally posted by batdude123
It's wrong to disregard what is shown on panel. Example: Captain America only had combat training for only what, a couple of months? But guess what, he's one of the very best fighters in the Marvel universe. Are we supposed to discredit all that he's done simply because he doesn't have the kind of EXPERIENCE that Wolverine does? No, we should not look past what goes on in the comics. After all, that's the only basis of comparison we use here.

If we only used that Flash would be losing to Wolverine on the Rumbles Forum and Superman wouldn't be able to fight Hulk cause he doesn't use superspeed that often.

We use high showings of all characters. And the high showings of the rest of the JLA in comparision to Batman just outclasses him.

The best he can bring is strategy. And money and resources. He's certainly useful as a financial/capital resource.



But back to the topic, I still stand as Batman not being the most useful taking on account the threats they normally face. Like Imperiux. Batman didn't help with that. He couldn't. Or Superboy Prime. Or Mageddon. Or Abyss. These are normally the foes the JLA band together to face. Batman's detective work and strategy can only take him so far. How's he gonna know the weakness of a Qward is positive gamma radiation?

Strategy? Canonically, he's the best. But J'onn, GL and Diana already bring some of that to the table.

Detective? Not that useful for a team that faces cosmic threats. J'onn is already a detective and while he may not be the best, he's good enough.

Wealth? This is what he really brings to the team. Aquaman is wealthier. So is Diana. But they can't use it fully because of politics and because Arthur is an a$$.


If the JLA is gonna fight Galactus on Jupiter, I would rather we bring Aquaman than Batman.

Originally posted by Draco69
If we only used that Flash would be losing to Wolverine on the Rumbles Forum and Superman wouldn't be able to fight Hulk cause he doesn't use superspeed that often.

We use high showings of all characters. And the high showings of the rest of the JLA in comparision to Batman just outclasses him.

The best he can bring is strategy. And money and resources. He's certainly useful as a financial/capital resource.



But back to the topic, I still stand as Batman not being the most useful taking on account the threats they normally face. Like Imperiux. Batman didn't help with that. He couldn't. Or Superboy Prime. Or Mageddon. Or Abyss. These are normally the foes the JLA band together to face. Batman's detective work and strategy can only take him so far. How's he gonna know the weakness of a Qward is positive gamma radiation?

Strategy? Canonically, he's the best. But J'onn, GL and Diana already bring some of that to the table.

Detective? Not that useful for a team that faces cosmic threats. J'onn is already a detective and while he may not be the best, he's good enough.

Wealth? This is what he really brings to the team. Aquaman is wealthier. So is Diana. But they can't use it fully because of politics and because Arthur is an a$$.


If the JLA is gonna fight Galactus on Jupiter, I would rather we bring Aquaman than Batman.

I agree that a street leveler isn't going to bring anything to the table when fighting those guys, but at least you acknowledge he brings strategy and detective work to the table.

Originally posted by The Pict
Astonishing X-Men- they could function without Emma as she turned against them And look at them now... Cyclops is comatose, Shadowcat is miles below the mansion, Colossus is KTFO, and Wolverine and Beast are playing cat and mouse with the mental capacities of a four year old and "a moose" respectively.
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Au contraire my friend. I have every issue of Young Avengers, complete first volume and evry issue of the 2nd volume so far of Runaways and i have read a lot of Alpha Flight. That beng said, I liked Runaways when it first came out because it was an interesting concept like the Thunderboltes when they first came out but as I read Runaways I always thought "How long can they stretch this storyline, it would have to end sooner or later" but it was good because it was enterntaining, then it finished and I was ok with it because it had a good story with a decisive ending but then they made volume 2 i guess just to milk the success of the first one but I really dont think it will last. Mollys feat of pulling Cloaks cloak it was a way for the writer to make her powerful even if he had a stablished hero like Cloak to do it. I like reading Runaways, I think Victor and Karolina are the koolest characters but if it is cancelled tomorrow, no biggie. Young Avengers i like, it was created to feel the void when the Avengers disassembled and it has potential to be something like Teen Titans but i dont like the gay characters, I feel they were just created just for the "controversial" factor and maybe to bring readers in. Its been good but not great and again if it was cancelled tomorrow, no biggie. Alpha Flight has never ammounted to anything. It has had like 4 or 5 runs and they all get cancelled, why? because they sucked. I think the best thing they have done was die in New Avengers and when they make a new AF series it will get cancelled too. IMO. If a lot of the mainstream titles e.g. New Avengers, was cancelled today it would be no biggie. Hell if every comic book was cancelled it would be relatively no biggie, most people would find something else to do with their time. I don't see how that discredits that Heinberg and Vaughn do good work on their respective comics, their artists give good art, and overall the titles are a solid read. Which is more than I can say for a lot of other books.
Originally posted by TheKahn
I didn't mean to suggest that Kitty isn't useful at all. I was thinking more along the lines of who helps to round out the team overall and would allow them to deal with most threats.

Cyke- leader and offensive powerhouse
Emma- telepath
Beast- medical and tech
Colossus- super-strong brick

And I had a toss up between Kitty and Wolvie. The reason Wolverine got the slight edge is that I though his covert intelligence and military training/contacts might be more helpful as well as the fact that Marvel has now seemed to decided the hairy runt in indestructible. He does stupid feats of indestructibility in his own series, but in Astonishing it's toned down for realism. Shadowcat brings a defensive, and potentially very deadly offensive ability to the team filling a niche that none of the other four can. Also as the stated purpose of the AXM team initially was PR she's there for a specific purpose in that Cyclops and Beast aren't exactly the most ordinary looking, Emma's a former villain and Wolverine's a thug and both are known killers. If one were to deem two characters the central protagonists in the comic that would be Emma and Kitty.

Also, Draco, what kind of logic is that? Let's just igonore EVERYTHING that's shown in comics that we don't like. No, fact of the matter is that Batman is the strategizer of the team, whether you like it or not. The JLA has expressed their dependency on him before, and it is crap logic to ignore what happens in EVERY issue. It just plain doesn't make sense. Batman is the strategizer of the team, case closed.

I'm laughing my ass off at this thread and I have clue why.

Originally posted by batdude123
Also, Draco, what kind of logic is that? Let's just igonore EVERYTHING that's shown in comics that we don't like. No, fact of the matter is that Batman is the strategizer of the team, whether you like it or not. The JLA has expressed their dependency on him before, and it is crap logic to ignore what happens in EVERY issue. It just plain doesn't make sense. Batman is the strategizer of the team, case closed. He's still the least useful.. Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm laughing my ass off at this thread and I have clue why. Wacky tobaccy? dodgy

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He's still the least useful..

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He's still the least useful.. Wacky tobaccy? dodgy Wacky Tobaccy?

Wolverine is more less useful as one of the X-men than a New Avenger . . .

And remembering the talk about Wolverine not really fitting with the Avengers.

Yeah, Wolverine isn't really out of place when it comes to the New Avengers. It's basically a bunch of street levelers with Iron Man and Sentry.

Originally posted by Draco69
Astonishing X-Men - Wolverine. Beast would be second in line but his genius outclasses him....

Fantastic Four - That's a toughie. They're all so integral to the team. I'd have to say the Human Torch. Thing is needed as a pure brawler and brick. But Johnny's powers aren't that special...

JLA - Batman. His genius is overrated. MM and Superman are smarter than him. Aquaman is the most powerful man on Earth politically. He rules 3/4s of it...

The Authority - Don't know much about them. But that girl with the wings seems pretty damn useless....

New Avengers - Ronin. Spider Woman. Luke Cage. They all seem so useless with Iron Man and Sentry on the team....

Teen Titans - To be absolutely honest, Wonder Girl. With Starfire on the team, she's already outclassed. Her only schtick was lassoing something and frying it with her magic lightening....
In astonishing x-men-I would say wolverine, if you put aside his popularity, he is not needed on this team
In the original JLA- everybody knows that Aquaman is totally useless, why will people not admit this. Sure he rules the oceans but the bad guys do not care if he is a monarch. He only contributes to the team if they are fighting in the ocean.
In the FF- The Torch, but this team works well together. Johnny would be the only member that can be expendable.
The Authority- Do not know anything about them
New Avengers- Easily Spider-Woman, yes I know that ROnin has not appeared very much but she has more uses than Spider-Woman. She is a better fighter and a cooler character. Spider-Woman was always a jobber in Marvel and is just another Wasp .
Teen Titans- I would also say Wonder Girl. She is only on the team for nostalgia

Originally posted by kenobi
In astonishing x-men-I would say wolverine, if you put aside his popularity, he is not needed on this team
In the original JLA- everybody knows that Aquaman is totally useless, why will people not admit this. Sure he rules the oceans but the bad guys do not care if he is a monarch. He only contributes to the team if they are fighting in the ocean.
In the FF- The Torch, but this team works well together. Johnny would be the only member that can be expendable.
The Authority- Do not know anything about them
New Avengers- Easily Spider-Woman, yes I know that ROnin has not appeared very much but she has more uses than Spider-Woman. She is a better fighter and a cooler character. Spider-Woman was always a jobber in Marvel and is just another Wasp .
Teen Titans- I would also say Wonder Girl. She is only on the team for nostalgia

Originally posted by Draco69
Noone cares about Aquaman...until he summons the largest army on Earth.

Seriously Atlantis is the premier of magic on DC Earth and its vast resources far outstrip any other Leaguers except of WW and Green Lantern.

Batman's rich? Arthur's ten times richer. He has alchemists that makes gold out of seashells for him....

I disagree with Spider-Woman. She's one of the few Avengers who can fly and her phermones have already proven to be useful with the Wrecking Crew.

Ronin is useless. She's a ninja who couldn't handle a few ninjas. Captain America already fills the hand to hand combat expert bill. So does Wolverine who has FAR more resources about the Hand or Hydra than Ronin....

Out of curiosity how does the largest army on earth stack up against
"the threats they normally face. Like Imperiux. ... Or Superboy Prime. Or Mageddon. Or Abyss. "?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Out of curiosity how does the largest army on earth stack up against
"the threats they normally face. Like Imperiux. ... Or Superboy Prime. Or Mageddon. Or Abyss. "?
Basic military stratagem, acceptable loses. Or what we like to call.......Cannon fodder

Originally posted by Creshosk
Out of curiosity how does the largest army on earth stack up against
"the threats they normally face. Like Imperiux. ... Or Superboy Prime. Or Mageddon. Or Abyss. "?

They turned back Imperiux from Atlantis. They also supplied Earth with magical artifacts powerful enough to destroy several Imperiux probes.

Aquaman's army also stopped WWIII in every nation. In a matter of minutes every country in the world was under Atlantean occupation in the Mageddon saga, thus allowing the heroes to finally focus on the larger threat.

Aquaman wasn't around to fight Abyss as he was occupied with the terriorial disputes between Japan and the Atlantean border.

Aquaman has more resources than almost every leaguer. Wealth, magic, political advancement allowing the JLA to act in countries they wouldn't be able to, and the last and final line of defense against a enormously powerful magical opponent.

Which is why Spectre went after Atlantis last....

Aquaman also provides telepathic buffers for J'onn.

Originally posted by MJOILNIR
Basic military stratagem, acceptable loses. Or what we like to call.......Cannon fodder

They're not fish....

Ever played Oblivion or WoW?

Imagine an army with impenetrable armour, the ability to cast deadly spells, advanced technology capable of destroying cities with a single laser cannon blast and the backing of numerous Atlantean races that range from giant Godzilla sized henchmen to the ancient Titans imprisoned by Poseidon.

These aren't little mermen with spears....

Originally posted by Draco69
They turned back Imperiux from Atlantis. They also supplied Earth with magical artifacts powerful enough to destroy several Imperiux probes.

Aquaman's army also stopped WWIII in every nation. In a matter of minutes every country in the world was under Atlantean occupation in the Mageddon saga, thus allowing the heroes to finally focus on the larger threat.

Aquaman wasn't around to fight Abyss as he was occupied with the terriorial disputes between Japan and the Atlantean border.

Aquaman has more resources than almost every leaguer. Wealth, magic, political advancement allowing the JLA to act in countries they wouldn't be able to, and the last and final line of defense against a enormously powerful magical opponent.

Which is why Spectre went after Atlantis last....

Aquaman also provides telepathic buffers for J'onn. I hope you don't feel like I was being sneaky, but it was nice to see that typed out as well for more defense against future people calling aquaman the most useless.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I hope you don't feel like I was being sneaky, but it was nice to see that typed out as well for more defense against future people calling aquaman the most useless.

That title goes to Lucid Lui.

But seriously, DC needs to give Aquaman an upgrade. A REAL upgrade.

That damn Superfriends cartoon scarred his character almost beyond repair....

Kudos Draco. Nice work defending Aquaman.

People don't understand that Atlantis is made up of many, many cities scattered all over the world. Cities where every single woman is an adept sorcerer (a large group of these woman put a hurting on a Millenium Giant), cities where they have an immense amount of high tech weaponry and so on and so forth.

Aquaman (when he's King) commands these cities.

Originally posted by Draco69
That title goes to Lucid Lui.

But seriously, DC needs to give Aquaman an upgrade. A REAL upgrade.

That damn Superfriends cartoon scarred his character almost beyond repair.... People really shouldn't pay attention cartoons that old. OtTher than for humor and not taking the characters seriously.
The comics are also vastly different now to what they used to be. Though writers will still sometimes write things that are just absurd, they don't really compare to alot of the stories from some time ago.

Reposting OP with later added and more additional teams.

Characters on superhero teams range in powers, skills etc. So when taking into account the all-round abilities of characters which ones are least useful? Which team member could a team do without and still function perfectly well on the following teams:

Astonishing X-Men
Fantastic Four
The original JLA
The Authority
New Avengers
Teen Titans
The Inhumans
Runaways
Young Avengers
Alpha Flight
The Outsiders
Excalibur
JSA
Thunderbolts
Birds of Prey

For any of these it need not be the most recent incarnation of the team.

Some more:
Marvel's Illuminati
Great Lakes Avengers
Doom Patrol
Stormwatch
Defenders
New Warriors
Imperial Guard
Exiles
Squadron Supreme
X-Factor

Marvel's Illuminati - Umm... Dunno. The whole point of this group is that they all bring different things so no one here is useless, but i guess trying to beat up fellow members and threatening them all the time wouldn't be considered very useful, so yeah, i'll go with Namor.

Great Lakes Avengers - Flat Man.. maybe...

Defenders - Hulk.

Exiles - Spider-Man 2099

X-Factor - Rictor

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


Some more:
Marvel's Illuminati
Great Lakes Avengers
Doom Patrol
Stormwatch
Defenders
New Warriors
Imperial Guard
Exiles
Squadron Supreme
X-Factor

Marvel's Illuminati : Xavier. He's powerless and even if had his telepathy, Doc. Strange can already provide that route.

Great Lakes Avengers: Flatman...

Doom Patrol: Bumblebee

Stormwatch: ???

Defenders: Hulk. Namor already provides brute strength. Hulk is also too damn unpredictable to be of use.

New Warriors: Turbine or Aegis. Aegis was pretty damn useless. He only had a forcefield...that protected himself...

Imperial Guard: ???

Exiles: Beak! Duh!

Squadron Supreme: Nighthawk.

X-Factor: Wolfsbane...

Well the Illuminati was formed when Xavier was considered a highly formidable telepath, a prominent geneticist and mutants were a growing, powerful and influential community with him as something akin to the movement leader of that community so that would have been what he brought to the table.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Well the Illuminati was formed when Xavier was considered a highly formidable telepath, a prominent geneticist and mutants were a growing, powerful and influential community with him as something akin to the movement leader of that community so that would have been what he brought to the table. And what with decimation and all what does he bring now?

Originally posted by Creshosk
And what with decimation and all what does he bring now?

His head makes a rather good mirror....

Originally posted by Creshosk
And what with decimation and all what does he bring now? A shiny bald head... other than that nothing... hell every mutant in the know about his questionable retcon-induced actions in the past all but hates him. He was kicked out of his own house.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A shiny bald head... other than that nothing... hell every mutant in the know about his questionable retcon-induced actions in the past all but hates him. He was kicked out of his own house.

Xavier's time has passed. He hasn't been a integral part of the X-Men for decades.

They should have just killed him off and let his X-Men carry on the dream.

They've had ample opportunity to kill him (and also Magneto off) permanently. But they linger for the same reason Nightwing hasn't surpassed Batman.

Hellion could grow into a Magneto-ish role. On topic the New Mutants least useful is probably Rockslide.

Btw, Batman is NOT useless in the JLA. Okay, so he's not the most powerful. BIG DEAL. He provides the team with intellect, resources, and connections.

And it's already been pointed out that his resources are less than Aquaman's, his intelligence isn't that big a deal compared to some of the others.... and they all have connections

Originally posted by Scoobless
And it's already been pointed out that his resources are less than Aquaman's, his intelligence isn't that big a deal compared to some of the others.... and they all have connections

Aquaman's a dick. He hardly does anything for the team. Intelligence is what Batman usually does for the team. It's just plain wrong to ignore that fact just because you don't like it. And they don't have their connections that usually pull through like Bats. Check out "Rock of Ages." Check out "Devided We Fall." Batman pulls through.

Honestly, strategically Plastic Man is the least useful for the team. He doesn't have anything that J'onn can't provide.

No one's saying Batman is useless, just the least useful. If Flash took ten minutes of his time to study all the subjects Bruce exceeds in, he could become about as intelligent as Bats in those areas. GL can probably apply the ring to do the same.

Originally posted by Accel
No one's saying Batman is useless, just the least useful. If Flash took ten minutes of his time to study all the subjects Bruce exceeds in, he could become about as intelligent as Bats in those areas. GL can probably apply the ring to do the same.

That could be said for a lot of people on the team. Who needs J'onn, Superman, or Plastic Man when you've got a Green Lantern ring that can do ANYTHING? Flash and Kyle aren't the brains of the group, that isn't their job. They've never been the geniuses of the group, so don't go making assumptions.

Besides, who was it that made fail safes for everybody in the group again? That's right, Batman.

Originally posted by batdude123
That could be said for a lot of people on the team. Who needs J'onn, Superman, or Plastic Man when you've got a Green Lantern ring that can do ANYTHING? Flash and Kyle aren't the brains of the group, that isn't their job. They've never been the geniuses of the group, so don't go making assumptions.
Exactly, but they are capable of doing it and you know it. This isn't asking who is the MOST useful, which is most likely Green Lantern in the JLA, but the LEAST useful, which is Batman in the JLA.

Every one serves at least one purpose in the JLA and whatever Batman brings to the table, others can bring as well (intelligence, weapons, etc). The opposite, however, cannot be correctly stated.

Originally posted by Accel
Exactly, but they are capable of doing it and you know it. This isn't asking who is the MOST useful, which is most likely Green Lantern in the JLA, but the LEAST useful, which is Batman in the JLA.

Every one serves at least one purpose in the JLA and whatever Batman brings to the table, others can bring as well (intelligence, weapons, etc). The opposite, however, cannot be correctly stated.

How is Batman less useful than Plastic Man when he consistently strategizes for the team, and gives them information, not to mention has fail safes for everyone? Plastic Man strategically does absolutely DICK and you know it. Plastic Man isn't even telepathically immuned like some believe. The only time I've seen that was in his fight with Fernus. But, I've seen his mind be telepathically penetrated way too many times for me to think that. It's just plain wrong to ignore ALL the times Batman has come through for the JLA. In fact, it's down right illogical. Batman comes up with plans and actually thinks stuff out for them. That's how it's basically portrayed in all the comics. It doesn't make it UNTRUE simply because you may not like that fact. He's basically the "general" of the group.

Originally posted by batdude123
How is Batman less useful than Plastic Man when he consistently strategizes for the team, and gives them information, not to mention has fail safes for everyone? Plastic Man strategically does absolutely DICK and you know it. Plastic Man isn't even telepathically immuned like some believe. The only time I've seen that was in his fight with Fernus. But, I've seen his mind be telepathically penetrated way too many times for me to think that. It's just plain wrong to ignore ALL the times Batman has come through for the JLA. In fact, it's down right illogical. Batman comes up with plans and actually thinks stuff out for them. That's how it's basically portrayed in all the comics. It doesn't make it UNTRUE simply because you may not like that fact. He's basically the "general" of the group.
Batman is the consistent strategical mind of the group, yes, but he doesn't have to be. As I pointed out, Flash is capable of going over every single strategy possible in his mind in a matter of seconds. Then you have that combined with the intelligence of Superman and MM as well as the plot device of the GL ring and they should easily be able to come up with plans at the very least as good as Batman's strategies. Plastic Mind isn't a strategical genius, but he didn't become part of the team to develop plans for them and whether or not he is telepathically immune is irrelevant.

Batman being the least useful on the JLA is nothing to be ashamed of. The fact that he's part of the team in the first place says a lot.

Originally posted by Accel
Batman is the consistent strategical mind of the group, yes, but he doesn't have to be. As I pointed out, Flash is capable of going over every single strategy possible in his mind in a matter of seconds. Then you have that combined with the intelligence of Superman and MM as well as the plot device of the GL ring and they should easily be able to come up with plans at the very least as good as Batman's strategies. Plastic Mind isn't a strategical genius, but he didn't become part of the team to develop plans for them and whether or not he is telepathically immune is irrelevant.

Batman being the least useful on the JLA is nothing to be ashamed of. The fact that he's part of the team in the first place says a lot.

Again I ask you, what makes Batman less useful than Plastic Man?

J'onn has admitted that the JLA has needed the help of Batman many times. He's said that he's not as good of a detective or a strategizer as Batman. And Superman is more of an inventor type person. He is an analyzer/strategizer like Bruce is. Despite Arthur, Batman provides funding and connections. Arthur is usually too much of an ass to do what is needed for the JLA. And when he's a part of it, he doesn't really help other than to fight for the team. Batman actually uses his mind and connections on land (not under water) to help out the JLA. Plus, his detective skills usually comes in handy at one point or another. Again, it's wrong to ignore issues where he is the proliminary strategizer of the group. If J'onn thinks so, then you know he isn't lying. Superman has also expressed how important it is for Batman to be a part of the JLA. Plastic Man doesn't provide a vital part in the team AT ALL. He doesn't do anything really. And of course Batman has those fail safes for everybody. So, he could take the team himself if he preped for it!! evillaugh

Originally posted by batdude123
Again I ask you, what makes Batman less useful than Plastic Man?

J'onn has admitted that the JLA has needed the help of Batman many times. He's said that he's not as good of a detective or a strategizer as Batman. And Superman is more of an inventor type person. He is an analyzer/strategizer like Bruce is. Despite Arthur, Batman provides funding and connections. Arthur is usually too much of an ass to do what is needed for the JLA. And when he's a part of it, he doesn't really help other than to fight for the team. Batman actually uses his mind and connections on land (not under water) to help out the JLA. Plus, his detective skills usually comes in handy at one point or another. Again, it's wrong to ignore issues where he is the proliminary strategizer of the group. If J'onn thinks so, then you know he isn't lying. Superman has also expressed how important it is for Batman to be a part of the JLA. Plastic Man doesn't provide a vital part in the team AT ALL. He doesn't do anything really. And of course Batman has those fail safes for everybody. So, he could take the team himself if he preped for it!! evillaugh

Superman "is NOT" an analyzer like Bruce is, rather.

Classic Avengers: Pym. Giant Man is a TOOL.

X-Men (Classic): Angel.

Defenders: I would concur with Hulk. The guy is unstable, and not good to have on a team.

New Avengers: Ronin.

Teen Titans: Wonder Girl.

Marvel's Illuminati - Xavier or Black Bolt. Xavier doesn't really have much influence over mutants at large, especially these days. Black Bolt doesn't even do much at Earth these days, he lives in moon, and there are not many Inhumans left. Whereas Namor commands most of the Earth...
Great Lakes Avengers - Flatman
Doom Patrol - Elasti-Girl
Stormwatch - Don't know
Defenders - Namor or Hulk. Hulk has probably saved them more times then not...
New Warriors - Don't know
Imperial Guard - Too many members to say
Exiles - Currently? Longshot.
Squadron Supreme - Tom Thumb
X-Factor - Rictor

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Marvel's Illuminati - Xavier or Black Bolt. Xavier doesn't really have much influence over mutants at large, especially these days. Black Bolt doesn't even do much at Earth these days, he lives in moon, and there are not many Inhumans left. Whereas Namor commands most of the Earth...
Great Lakes Avengers - Flatman
Doom Patrol - Elasti-Girl
Stormwatch - Don't know
Defenders - Namor or Hulk. Hulk has probably saved them more times then not...
New Warriors - Don't know
Imperial Guard - Too many members to say
Exiles - Currently? Longshot.
Squadron Supreme - Tom Thumb
X-Factor - Rictor

Yeah, Rictor is no good to anyone without his powers.

Originally posted by batdude123
Again I ask you, what makes Batman less useful than Plastic Man?

J'onn has admitted that the JLA has needed the help of Batman many times. He's said that he's not as good of a detective or a strategizer as Batman. And Superman is more of an inventor type person. He is an analyzer/strategizer like Bruce is. Despite Arthur, Batman provides funding and connections. Arthur is usually too much of an ass to do what is needed for the JLA. And when he's a part of it, he doesn't really help other than to fight for the team. Batman actually uses his mind and connections on land (not under water) to help out the JLA. Plus, his detective skills usually comes in handy at one point or another. Again, it's wrong to ignore issues where he is the proliminary strategizer of the group. If J'onn thinks so, then you know he isn't lying. Superman has also expressed how important it is for Batman to be a part of the JLA. Plastic Man doesn't provide a vital part in the team AT ALL. He doesn't do anything really. And of course Batman has those fail safes for everybody. So, he could take the team himself if he preped for it!! evillaugh
J'onn's probably right that's he's not as a good as a detective as Batman, but when you take into consideration of the combination of the powers and intelligence of MM, Superman, Flash, GL, and possibly Wonder Woman, along with the fact that the JLA doesn't typically solves mysteries, J'onn doesn't need to be as good. With their abilities, just about any one of them should easily become as skilled as Batman as far strategizing is concerned, but for some reason they never do.

As for Plastic Man, he may not be as smart as Batman, but his other abilities come in handy in a fight against the typical cosmic threat the JLA usually faces off. If I saw Doomsday charging at me, I'd feel much better with PM at my side than with Bats.

Originally posted by Accel
J'onn's probably right that's he's not as a good as a detective as Batman, but when you take into consideration of the combination of the powers and intelligence of MM, Superman, Flash, GL, and possibly Wonder Woman, along with the fact that the JLA doesn't typically solves mysteries, J'onn doesn't need to be as good. With their abilities, just about any one of them should easily become as skilled as Batman as far strategizing is concerned, but for some reason they never do.

As for Plastic Man, he may not be as smart as Batman, but his other abilities come in handy in a fight against the typical cosmic threat the JLA usually faces off. If I saw Doomsday charging at me, I'd feel much better with PM at my side than with Bats.

J'onn and the JLA have expressed their desire for having Batman on the team. They've said that they have needed him before, and we're supposed to ignore that? Bottom line; Batman is portrayed to be consistently strategizing and coming up with plans for the JLA that they typically don't even think of. Again, I make a reference to the fail safe thing.

Plastic Man has less use than Batman imo. He doesn't bring anything to the table that J'onn doesn't already bring. Not to mention at least Batman contributes to the JLA while PM is just another member who fights. Batman who preps and strategizes is more useful imo than Plastic Man on they fly. Again, Batman is always the one with the plan. Look at "Terror Incognita," "Rock of Ages," and "Devided We Fall." Those are simply a few of the MANY books where they've needed him to come through for them before.

Originally posted by Accel
No one's saying Batman is useless
I am. I don't see any reason for him to be on the main team and not having a role like Orion or Atom do as a mission specialist.

Well, I didnt see this "gang up on Batdude" thread Wow, can I just jump in

Originally posted by MJOILNIR
Well, I didnt see this "gang up on Batdude" thread Wow, can I just jump in

That's what it seems to be. *sigh*

It's more of a gang up on Batman thread. Batdude being his official herald isn't our fault though.

Originally posted by batdude123
J'onn and the JLA have expressed their desire for having Batman on the team. They've said that they have needed him before, and we're supposed to ignore that? Bottom line; Batman is portrayed to be consistently strategist and coming up with plans for the JLA that they typically don't even think of. Again, I make a reference to the fail safe thing.

Plastic Man has less use than Batman imo. He doesn't bring anything to the table that J'onn doesn't already bring. Not to mention at least Batman contributes to the JLA while PM is just another member who fights. Batman who preps and strategizes is more useful imo than Plastic Man on they fly. Again, Batman is always the one with the plan. Look at "Terror Incognita," "Rock of Ages," and "Devided We Fall." Those are simply a few of the MANY books where they've needed him to come through for them before.
I'm not ignoring any thing. I know they have expressed their need for Batman to come up with plans, but as I said, they never seem to acknowledge the fact that almost all of them are just as capable of it wen they actually apply some time and effort into actually studying those subjects.
I kind of find it funny that it never occurs to Flash, "Gee, I can just do this!"
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/flashthink.jpg

Batman has gotten the JLA out a jam before, but that doesn't change much with all areas. Hulk, for instance, has also gotten the Defenders out a predicament on more than one occasion, but that doesn't change the fact that he's pretty much the least useful member of that team.


As for Plastic Man, he still has his powers he can use to combat the powerful villains they fight, and with the strategist abilities, powers, and teamwork of the others, he's set.

Ahem I am a Batman fanboy a bit so I say leave Batdude alone !!

I think you have to keep in mind the intent of the thread is to discuss who is the least useful and not who is useless.

That is why I picked Aquaman as being the least useful in the original JLA lineup. It's not that he doesn't have some impressive abilities or resources, it's just I think either the other members have the same abilities or that the resources he brings are not consistently needed. He may be richer than anyone on the planet but when is the last time the JLA was hurting for cash?

In defense of Batman it's not just his detective skills that I think warrant him being considered more useful but also his practical knowledge of modern human technology and certain intellectual disciplines (criminology, psychology, forensics, etc). Also he has the advantage to bringing a seemingly limitless number of pieces of equipment that can be brought to deal with certain situations.

While he could certainly do all of this in a periphery role, I think the same thing could be said for Aquaman.

I think Aquaman is more useful than Bats is not because of his wealth, but due to the fact that he actually brings some powers that allow him to fight the threats that the JLA regularly faces, especially wit his magic hand.

Practically every one else is capable of bringing the level of intelligence that Batman has to the table as well as very useful gadgets, such as Superman or Green Lantern.

Originally posted by Accel
I'm not ignoring any thing. I know they have expressed their need for Batman to come up with plans, but as I said, they never seem to acknowledge the fact that almost all of them are just as capable of it wen they actually apply some time and effort into actually studying those subjects.
I kind of find it funny that it never occurs to Flash, "Gee, I can just do this!"
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/flashthink.jpg

Batman has gotten the JLA out a jam before, but that doesn't change much with all areas. Hulk, for instance, has also gotten the Defenders out a predicament on more than one occasion, but that doesn't change the fact that he's pretty much the least useful member of that team.


As for Plastic Man, he still has his powers he can use to combat the powerful villains they fight, and with the strategist abilities, powers, and teamwork of the others, he's set.

It's not just analytical things that is useful to get the job done. Flash may be able to process things at a high rate, but he is still lacking in the areas that Batman brings to the table for the JLA, hence WHY THEY HAVE HIM! And it isn't just strategy that he's good for (however, he is the leader in that area). As Kahn has said, he brings knowledge of human technology, criminology, forensic science (which they use a lot normally), deductive reasoning, detective skills, psychiatric knowledge which allows him to trace all the steps and think like the criminal they are actually trying to capture. His psychiatric learnings is what has lead them to successful missions in the past, because he knows how to think like a criminal. All of his uses are practical when you consider what they usually do. He also has plenty of connections that they use all the time, and he funds their equipment, AND he brings equipment to the table as well. Arthur may be rich, but he isn't the one who helps out the League in the funding department. Like I said, Batman definitely has his uses in the League. He isn't the least useful in the group. Plastic Man is just another body for the League. He's a waste of space. He doens't provide any strategic compliments to them. ONCE AGAIN, I'm gonna mention the fail safes he's made for everybody, which is EXTREMELY usefu.

How can anybody consider Batman "least useful"?
bnone

Better question would be why was Plastic Man brought up? At which point did he become an original member?

Originally posted by badabing
How can anybody consider Batman "least useful"?
bnone When compared to the others.

Originally posted by Creshosk
When compared to the others.
angrymob

What about wonder woman?
When we got people like cap marvel, superman, characters like that.
All she brings is a lasso, and braclets, that she deflects bullets with, yay, she can't take a bullet....

Originally posted by bigbran
What about wonder woman?
When we got people like cap marvel, superman, characters like that.
All she brings is a lasso, and braclets, that she deflects bullets with, yay, she can't take a bullet....

She brings knowledge about magical beings. But, apparently that's ten times better than the overall knowledge that Batman brings.

Oh, and female canon fodder.

Originally posted by bigbran
What about wonder woman?
When we got people like cap marvel, superman, characters like that.
All she brings is a lasso, and braclets, that she deflects bullets with, yay, she can't take a bullet....
Oh boy. You better hope Draco doesn't read this post.fear

Originally posted by badabing
Oh boy. You better hope Draco doesn't read this post.fear












I got you in my unbreakable childs toy.
Wheres my horse, I have to rope up some cows...

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4783/comicseventsbanebreakyouaj2.jpg




****Runs and hides from batdude123****

Damn you Broly!angrymobcursingfuriousmadrantingmad2

Originally posted by Broly92
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4783/comicseventsbanebreakyouaj2.jpg




****Runs and hides from batdude123****

You ASS!!


How many times do I have to explain this to you? Not only did Bane get one-sided prep for the whole situation, but Batman just got done beating up every single inmate that escaped from Arkham Asylumn. Ooooo, Bane beat up a fatigued and weakened Batman. GOOD FOR HIM!!! Guess what? Their next fight was on equal ground and Batman nearly killed Bane's ass.

Originally posted by batdude123
You ASS!!


How many times do I have to explain this to you? Not only did Bane get one-sided prep for the whole situation, but Batman just got done beating up every single inmate that escaped from Arkham Asylumn. Ooooo, Bane beat up a fatigued and weakened Batman. GOOD FOR HIM!!! Guess what? Their next fight was on equal ground and Batman nearly killed Bane's ass. How? After bane snapped him, and after bats had to heal his back after bane broke it.....

Originally posted by batdude123
You ASS!!


How many times do I have to explain this to you? Not only did Bane get one-sided prep for the whole situation, but Batman just got done beating up every single inmate that escaped from Arkham Asylumn. Ooooo, Bane beat up a fatigued and weakened Batman. GOOD FOR HIM!!! Guess what? Their next fight was on equal ground and Batman nearly killed Bane's ass.
Effin' a Batdude, effin' a! batman

Originally posted by bigbran
I got you in my unbreakable childs toy.
Wheres my horse, I have to rope up some cows...

Originally posted by batdude123
She brings knowledge about magical beings. But, apparently that's ten times better than the overall knowledge that Batman brings.

Combined with her power it is better. You're just being anal because Batman is a favorite of yours. Of course he provides "something". Every character in every team provides something. Doesn't change the fact that somebody has to be the least useful. If we really wanted to, we could argue everybody's pick for every team presented.

Originally posted by batdude123
You ASS!!


How many times do I have to explain this to you? Not only did Bane get one-sided prep for the whole situation, but Batman just got done beating up every single inmate that escaped from Arkham Asylumn. Ooooo, Bane beat up a fatigued and weakened Batman. GOOD FOR HIM!!! Guess what? Their next fight was on equal ground and Batman nearly killed Bane's ass.
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3622/gpcalmdowneo0.gif

Originally posted by bigbran
How? After bane snapped him, and after bats had to heal his back after bane broke it.....

Yes.

It's kinda funny that no one has argued against Wolverine's nomination on the X-men . . .compared to how rabidly batman is being defended here. lol

Originally posted by Broly92
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3622/gpcalmdowneo0.gif

Thanks, that helped.

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's kinda funny that no one has argued against Wolverine's nomination on the X-men . . .compared to how rabidly batman is being defended here. lol

I think Wolverine is more suited to be on the New Avengers roster rather than the Astonishing roster but hey, that's just me...

Originally posted by batdude123
Thanks, that helped.
No problem

Originally posted by Validus
Combined with her power it is better. You're just being anal because Batman is a favorite of yours. Of course he provides "something". Every character in every team provides something. Doesn't change the fact that somebody has to be the least useful. If we really wanted to, we could argue everybody's pick for every team presented.

I still don't see Batman as the least useful. He keeps the team running as smoothly as possible.

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's kinda funny that no one has argued against Wolverine's nomination on the X-men . . .compared to how rabidly batman is being defended here. lol
That's because Logan ask's for it. He's always trying to be a loner and grumbling around in a bad mood.....Wait, was I talking about Logan or Bruce? confused1

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's kinda funny that no one has argued against Wolverine's nomination on the X-men . . .compared to how rabidly Batman is being defended here. lol ... that's because everyone realises Wolverine is the least useful in the AXM to argue otherwise is folly, while conversely everyone bar batdude realises that Batman is the least useful of the original JLA. To argue otherwise is still folly.