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In your mind, what does it take powerwise to be grouped in either section?

Originally posted by long pig
In your mind, what does it take powerwise to be grouped in either section? Doctor Strange is up there somewhere. Dude's badass.

Hmm....

Manipulation of Molecules

High end durability (taking a 'planet shattering blast' for example )

thats all the classification I need.

Powerful blasts, or Galactus goes halfway across the planet blasts.

A special edition collector's plate of the I Love Lucy Show.
One half-ingested cracker jack decoder ring
At least 2 copies of Sweating to the Oldies with Richard Simmons
A lunch box with Dungeons and Dragons on it (the cartoon not the game)
And a complete collection of ever Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Action Figures. (Pre-movie)

I think that's a recipe for Highfather level.

Notable Skyfather= top tiers are biatches. Heralds are biatches. Mjolnir is nothing but a bore. Teams are a bore. Plenetary level opponents at least.

Thats the start.

Ummm off the top of the noggin

Reality manipulation
Transmutation
High Durability ala Planet destroying shots
Wielding some form of energy on a high level ala Magic,Cosmic,etc
Lightspeed
Teleportation
Cosmic Awareness
Immortal to some extent

in my mind..all the bells and whistles come with being able to manipulate molecules so my take:

-ability to weild vast amounts of mystic and or cosmic energy on a galactic scale.

-ability to warp reality

-time travel

-ability to infuse others with power thru sheer force of will or a fraction of your energies or to take it away at will(the same way Zeus took away Hercs' immortality and full power)

being able to have your thralls or avatars be powerful as you will them to be....even powerful enuff to challenge your might one day(see galactus, cytorrak)

-being able to restore someone's health even if they are past a point of no return, or just plain old ressurrection.

-being able to create life

-being able to transfer somone's "soul" or thier consciousness to another vessel.

-being omniscient, omnipotent, and an omniversal telepath(or any other word that begins with omni)

and for herald level just take all the above and bring it down about 8-10 notches

There's no set of powers. That's retarded.

Originally posted by manjaro
in my mind..all the bells and whistles come with being able to manipulate molecules so my take:

-ability to weild vast amounts of mystic and or cosmic energy on a galactic scale.

-ability to warp reality

-time travel

-ability to infuse others with power thru sheer force of will or a fraction of your energies or to take it away at will(the same way Zeus took away Hercs' immortality and full power)

being able to have your thralls or avatars be powerful as you will them to be....even powerful enuff to challenge your might one day(see galactus, cytorrak)

-being able to restore someone's health even if they are past a point of no return, or just plain old ressurrection.

-being able to create life

-being able to transfer somone's "soul" or thier consciousness to another vessel.

-being omniscient, omnipotent, and an omniversal telepath(or any other word that begins with omni)
Thats some very good points. A true Skyfather isnt just powerful he's a monarch. He/She has absolut control over thier pantheon. He can give or take powers as he sees fit. Much like I quoted above. The term Skyfather actually has a place and shouldent be used as a powerset.

The term Skyfather I believe should only be used when concerning a member of the council of godheads. They are the pantheon heads of marvels gods. Those are the only "actual"skyfathers. Saying someone is as powerful is one thing but thats different. Vishnu, Odin, Zeus are beings who can resend powers from very powerful beings like Thor, Herc, Apollo, Are's ect. Not only are they powerful but they have control over large powerful realms and many powerful individuals.

Anyone who can take out the Surfer with ease IMO.

Therefore that includes Thanos IMO

Herald level doesn't exist.
Cuz Silver Surfer is a herald, but not all heralds are the Surfer.


Same for skyfather.
Not a level, since Zeus isn't as powerful as Odin. Its a title.

Skyfathers should be head and shoulders above the rest of their pantheons.
Thats all thats required in my eyes.

To Yahmy. Does this mean Superman is possibly skyfather level??

Since he does have skyfather level feats??

Like beating an actual skyfather, and thrashing teams of gods at once?

Same for GL?

reality and matter manipulation
time travel
very high durability
being able to destroy planets with ease
being able to create life and ressurect people
omnipotency
immortality
and so on.....

Originally posted by UniOmni
Herald level doesn't exist.
Cuz Silver Surfer is a herald, but not all heralds are the Surfer.


Same for skyfather.
Not a level, since Zeus isn't as powerful as Odin. Its a title.

Skyfathers should be head and shoulders above the rest of their pantheons.
Thats all thats required in my eyes.

To Yahmy. Does this mean Superman is possibly skyfather level??

Since he does have skyfather level feats??

Like beating an actual skyfather, and thrashing teams of gods at once?

Same for GL?
Almost every top tier/herald level hero has feats that put them beyond that level.

In terms of pure destructive ability:

Herald level: one - shot solar systems

Skyfather level: one - shot galaxies

Originally posted by Endless Mike
In terms of pure destructive ability:

Herald level: one - shot solar systems

Skyfather level: one - shot galaxies
No herald can one shot a solar system.

Nova did and she's the weakest.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Nova did and she's the weakest.
She's triggered supernovas and black holes which in turn destroyed the solar system but never through her own energy.

That's what I meant.

Originally posted by Validus
Almost every top tier/herald level hero has feats that put them beyond that level.

Actually, not true.

Superman is the only character that comes to mind, thats been shown thrashing multiple actual Gods solo, and beaten a tried and true Skyfather.

Heavens Ladder and other mondo feats are good, but i've never seen any character beat actual Gods, simultaneously.

Now if they were all as powerful as Balder, it wouldn't be worth noting.

But they were shown as decent threats, and worthy of the title of Godly.

Sometimes i do think Superman is a cut above, ala Jelly.
Panel evidence supports this notion.





























Fact people.......Superman will more than likely beat the ass of your favorite character, as long as he's another hero.

And on panel feats legitly solidify his status as top of the barrel.

I'm not arguing that Superman won't be depicted as beating everyone's ass but I am saying that every top tier or at least every notable top tier has feats that put them above that level. Even Wonder Woman has beaten Gods and nobody gives her any credit at all.

Originally posted by Validus
I'm not arguing that Superman won't be depicted as beating everyone's ass but I am saying that every top tier or at least every notable top tier has feats that put them above that level. Even Wonder Woman has beaten Gods and nobody gives her any credit at all.

But has she beaten multiple gods at once?? Superman has.

I never shirk on credit, at least i hope i don't.

I rate top tiers like this. everybody starts off at 0%. But feats and low showings raise their overall average.

Superman by default, will have more feats and less low showings than any other character in DC. Its in the Superman writers club clause.

So that effectively raises his average.

Black Adam may have a 88% average overall.

MM has a 75% average, though it shouldn't be so.

Superman has at least, a 95% average.
So imo, he is a cut above.

WW has a 85% average.

A cut above? Just like when Jelly tries that argument it falls apart because those guys are shown as his near equal way too much. A cut above would be guys like Fate and Strange (no prep), Genis-Vell, and Bronze Age Superman.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Herald level doesn't exist.
Cuz Silver Surfer is a herald, but not all heralds are the Surfer.


Same for skyfather.
Not a level, since Zeus isn't as powerful as Odin. Its a title.

Skyfathers should be head and shoulders above the rest of their pantheons.
Thats all thats required in my eyes.

To Yahmy. Does this mean Superman is possibly skyfather level??Since he does have skyfather level feats??Like beating an actual skyfather, and thrashing teams of gods at once?

Last time i said Supes was on a Skyfather level i was slated by everyone, but he does have Skyfather feats. IMO he doesn't have the versatility to beat either the Surfer or any skyfather (Except Darksied), He is definitely on a Herald level


Originally posted by UniOmni
Same for GL?

Based on their best showings, Hal and Kyle are maybe on a Skyfather level. Now thats a comment that is going to piss a lot of people off.

Originally posted by Validus
She's triggered supernovas and black holes which in turn destroyed the solar system but never through her own energy.

Destroying a plannet taxes even the Surfer to the max. I know he has created black holes, but black holes can vary dramatically in size, the smallest ones are the size of electrons.

Originally posted by Validus
A cut above? Just like when Jelly tries that argument it falls apart because those guys are shown as his near equal way too much. A cut above would be guys like Fate and Strange (no prep), Genis-Vell, and Bronze Age Superman.

I totally agree .... but Uni, i think that power system is very cool way of illustrating power levels. Can you PM me if you got anymore idea of how a sytem like that would work.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Last time i said Supes was on a Skyfather level i was slated by everyone, but he does have Skyfather feats. IMO he doesn't have the versatility to beat either the Surfer or any skyfather (Except Darksied), He is definitely on a Herald level




Based on their best showings, Hal and Kyle are maybe on a Skyfather level. Now thats a comment that is going to piss a lot of people off.

To be honest, i was only playing the DA.

But like Vally said, every top tier has moments/showings that up their average.

Superman isn't the only one who has that ability.

But its not his average showing. Its not his everyday power levels.
Thats the fact of the matter.

Same with the GLs.

Kyle with the Heavens Ladder feat, and the Big Bang stuff, would be considered damn near abstract level.
But he's not, cuz he can't do that on a whim.

And for the record, Superman doesn't have what it takes to beat Darkseid.
OR any skyfather at this point in time.

He does, have the writers in pocket, and they have tools that Uxas cannot prevail against.

Supes could probably be called herald level. He could go toe to toe with any of the hearalds and hold his own , and maybe beat a couple. Any herald that fought smart. Not like a dumbass, could hand supes his ass though. Exploiting his weaknesses and such. So supes could be classified is a low leveal herald. Plus he doesnt manipulate any energy. Yes he is strong and durable and fast, but all his skill set puts him at a low level herald.
Im looking at this power wise. Not "oh - he beat skyfathers, and darkseid, ect"

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Destroying a plannet taxes even the Surfer to the max. I know he has created black holes, but black holes can vary dramatically in size, the smallest ones are the size of electrons.

Actually, thats not so. Surfer recently destroyed a planet to prove a point. With minimal effort.

And i was looking through some of the probes stuff from OWAW, and it took many of them to simply destroy one planet. Weird.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Supes could probably be called herald level. He could go toe to toe with any of the hearalds and hold his own , and maybe beat a couple. Any herald that fought smart. Not like a dumbass, could hand supes his ass though. Exploiting his weaknesses and such. So supes could be classified is a low leveal herald. Plus he doesnt manipulate any energy. Yes he is strong and durable and fast, but all his skill set puts him at a low level herald.
Im looking at this power wise. Not "oh - he beat skyfathers, and darkseid, ect"
In overall formidability and power he is herald level despite not being as versatile. Without giving every herald the benefit of doubt and saying they all have the same abilities, I would say Surfer and Stardust are the only ones who could really clean his clock.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Actually, thats not so. Surfer recently destroyed a planet to prove a point. With minimal effort.

Did that happen in Anhilation ? Hasn't he had a power increase ?

Originally posted by UniOmni
And i was looking through some of the probes stuff from OWAW, and it took many of them to simply destroy one planet. Weird.

Its not that weird, infact when Superman performed his infamous planet moving stunt, everyone was very Suprised he had that kind of power. Infact most of his 'Cosmic Feats' have involved help from other characters. I still have him at Herald level, as i think he could punk the likes of Air Walker and Nova. Silver surfer is generally depicted as more powerful than the reast anyway.

Originally posted by Validus
In overall formidability and power he is herald level despite not being as versatile. Without giving every herald the benefit of doubt and saying they all have the same abilities, I would say Surfer and Stardust are the only ones who could really clean his clock.

Agreed .... I'd also have Capatain Atom, the M.M, Kyle and Hal in that category.

Well, to be back on topic, i reiterate that there is no true herald level, or skyfather level.

Only different levels of formidability within each title range.

But yeah, i do agree with Vally.

I see Stardust and Surfer as sure bets to beat his ass, while perhaps Firelord and Fallen One have the potential to stalemate him. Both need more feats.

MM imo, isn't in the range. His energy output isn't anywhere near the heralds range, imo.

Superman wouldn't be either, if not for the hv warming earth feat and the powering a planet sized ship showing.

MM should be able to thrash a fair bit of heralds though.

Firelord, Terrax, Nova, Redshift and Morg should all come up short against Jonn.
Firelord would have the best chance though.

IMO there are too many criss cross feats that hopelessly interwine what should be herald and skyfather levels.

Surfer, Superman, and GL are 3 great examples of this.

Surfer pisses me off because he pulls off things that Galactus should be doing, and to top it off, Galactus is shown jobbing most of the time needing SS help when together.

GL's can do anything they want according to their will. That says it all, and we've seen it...from low end to high end. Kyle didn't need a counterpart in DC 1M...why? Because he can basically do whatever he wants...how do you really upgrade that?

Superman. For someone with a deceptively simple powerset, he pulls off a lot of things that most of us think he shouldn't.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Well, to be back on topic, i reiterate that there is no true herald level, or skyfather level.

Only different levels of formidability within each title range.

But yeah, i do agree with Vally.

I see Stardust and Surfer as sure bets to beat his ass, while perhaps Firelord and Fallen One have the potential to stalemate him. Both need more feats.

MM imo, isn't in the range. His energy output isn't anywhere near the heralds range, imo.

Superman wouldn't be either, if not for the hv warming earth feat and the powering a planet sized ship showing.

MM should be able to thrash a fair bit of heralds though.

Firelord, Terrax, Nova, Redshift and Morg should all come up short against Jonn.
Firelord would have the best chance though.

You've have hit the nail on the coffin !!! The problem is when everyone thinks Herald level, they think of Surfer and his various displays even though the other Heralds have not nearly been as formidable. When everyone says Skyfather level, they think of Odin punking Surfer and holding his own against Thanos. When you analyse other Skyfather performances you realise they have done little to suggest they are far beyond the JLA's finest. Take King Thor for example, he maxed out after remaking the moon, and was Ko'ed by a Nuke. And Superman put up a better fight against normal Thor than Zeus did. Bare in mind that King Thor and Zeus are both considered powerful Skyfathers.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
IMO there are too many criss cross feats that hopelessly interwine what should be herald and skyfather levels.

Surfer, Superman, and GL are 3 great examples of this.

Surfer pisses me off because he pulls off things that Galactus should be doing, and to top it off, Galactus is shown jobbing most of the time needing SS help when together.

GL's can do anything they want according to their will. That says it all, and we've seen it...from low end to high end. Kyle didn't need a counterpart in DC 1M...why? Because he can basically do whatever he wants...how do you really upgrade that?

Superman. For someone with a deceptively simple powerset, he pulls off a lot of things that most of us think he shouldn't.

Agreed.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
You've have hit the nail on the coffin !!! The problem is when everyone thinks Herald level, they think of Surfer and his various displays even though the other Heralds have not nearly been as formidable. When everyone says Skyfather level, they think of Odin punking Surfer and holding his own against Thanos. When you analyse other Skyfather performances you realise they have done little to suggest they are far beyond the JLA's finest. Take King Thor for example, he maxed out after remaking the moon, and was Ko'ed by a Nuke. And Superman put up a better fight against normal Thor than Zeus did. Bare in mind that King Thor and Zeus are both considered powerful Skyfathers.

Do you mean "nail on the head"? Or nailed the coffin shut?



Just wanted to know.

But Odin isn't widely considered the most powerful skyfather in either company due to that stuff.
It's the galaxy destroying and multiverse shaking that nominates him.

And Zeus had the fight well in hand.
Didn't blink to Mjnollir to the face, and supposedly fought for months.

I view the Zeus/Thor fight like i see the Thanos/Odin fight.
A decent stamina showing for Thor/Thanos, but the battle was clearly in the skyfathers hand.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
IMO there are too many criss cross feats that hopelessly interwine what should be herald and skyfather levels.

Surfer, Superman, and GL are 3 great examples of this.

Surfer pisses me off because he pulls off things that Galactus should be doing, and to top it off, Galactus is shown jobbing most of the time needing SS help when together.

Very true. Just recently in Annihilation the Seekers were shown talking smack to Galactus yet running scared from Surfer.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Do you mean "nail on the head"? Or nailed the coffin shut?



Just wanted to know.

Now that is embarassing Sorry im really tired !!!!!!!!! I mean Nail on the head !

Originally posted by UniOmni
But Odin isn't widely considered the most powerful skyfather in either company due to that stuff.
It's the galaxy destroying and multiverse shaking that nominates him.

That is an old comic, and few believe that he has that kind of power now. Not even galactus has multiverse shaking power. Multiverse shaking power makes the big bang look like a fire cracker, when you consider how big the multiverse is. Know I think most people think of the Thanos and Surfer incident when they relate to Odins power.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And Zeus had the fight well in hand.
Didn't blink to Mjnollir to the face, and supposedly fought for months.

I view the Zeus/Thor fight like i see the Thanos/Odin fight.
A decent stamina showing for Thor/Thanos, but the battle was clearly in the skyfathers hand.

But Odin was fighting Thanos, not someone who is on a low Herald / Superman level. And he was pretty dumb to let it go on for so long, he could have finished earlier. Im not doubting he couldn't im just syaing that it really doesn't say a lot about his power.

Originally posted by Validus
Very true. Just recently in Annihilation the Seekers were shown talking smack to Galactus yet running scared from Surfer.

Looking at the feats list of each character, things are so interwined between high and low for ALL characters that nowadays it really is just about the writers preference.

Iron man defeating Sentry is a good example of this.

Originally posted by Validus
Very true. Just recently in Annihilation the Seekers were shown talking smack to Galactus yet running scared from Surfer.

Looking at the feats list of each character, things are so interwined between high and low for ALL characters that nowadays it really is just about the writers preference.

Iron man defeating Sentry is a good example of this.

I see Thanos as Marvels version of Superman. Their status is as such to beat anyone anytime when needed somehow overcoming any characters powersets and abilities.

If they ever teamed up there wouldn't be a need for an IG or ALE.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I see Thanos as Marvels version of Superman. Their status is as such to beat anyone anytime when needed somehow overcoming any characters powersets and abilities.

If they ever teamed up there wouldn't be a need for an IG or ALE.

Actually the most undefeatable team that could be EVER assembled is:
- Superman - written by a superman fanboy. Plot device powers, everyone jobbing to him , ect.
- Bone claws Wolverine - Nuff said'
- Batman with prep time.

those 3 > anything Marvel, DC, Image, Darkhorse ect, can throw at them.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Looking at the feats list of each character, things are so interwined between high and low for ALL characters that nowadays it really is just about the writers preference.

Iron man defeating Sentry is a good example of this.

I see Thanos as Marvels version of Superman. Their status is as such to beat anyone anytime when needed somehow overcoming any characters powersets and abilities.

If they ever teamed up there wouldn't be a need for an IG or ALE. How?
Thanos loses to characters, like Tyrant, Odin, Galactus.
Superman beat skyfather's all the time.

So you tell me who beats more characters way above there natural abilities.

Originally posted by bigbran
How?
Thanos loses to characters, like Tyrant, Odin, Galactus.
Superman beat skyfather's all the time.

So you tell me who beats more characters way above there natural abilities.
Good point.

Superman > Thanos

Originally posted by Validus
Good point.

Superman > Thanos No!

Originally posted by Validus
Good point.

Superman > Thanos

Just because a character hasnt shown a particular feat in 30 years dosnt mean they still couldent do it. Even Thor said that he didnt realize how powerful Odin was until now. He was even trying to figure out why Odin didnt just destroy Asgards enemys because he clearly had the power. Odin was never retconned or stated as being less powerful than befor. Also King Thor was never knocked out by a nuke. It destroyed the island and the next panel he was floating in the air pissed off. His outfit was trashed but thats it. Skyfather is a title that people have started useing for a powerset. The problem is that its not accurate. Not all Skyfathers are equal as all heralds are not equal.

See, I don't understand how one can say Superman is herald level. In my vast and wondrous mind, a "herald-cosmic" character MUST HAVE certain powers. Strength and speed are very, very low on must haves.

Must haves:
1:A high-end degree of Matter control/manipulation.
2: A high end degree of Telepathy, not just passive.
3:Nearly if not limitless power reserves.
4:Reality control to a medium range.
5:Time control to a medium range.

That's the top five and as you can see, none of those deal with brute power or strength. They come later:

1:Blasts that can destroy a planet.
2: Durability that can handle nearly anything thrown at them INCLUDING magic and physical.
3: Speed.
4: Something like a sixth sense.
5:High end strength.

And honestly, Superman only has #4,#3 and #5. Therefore, I can't honestly say he's cosmic/herald.

matter manipulation ala MM

superman prime anyone...?

1. all that and a bag of chips
2. created his own pantheon
3. 85,000 years of solar charged cells
4. was still more powerful than all the superman dynasty, tho over the centuries they had mixed with the 5th dimension and gained 5d power
5. he even amped up thier power at will

superman prime.....true skyfather

Originally posted by manjaro
and for herald level just take all the above and bring it down about 8-10 notches

8 -10 notches .... I dont think the Surfer is 8 - 10 notches behind the likes off Zeus and rama etc

Also many of the higher tier characters have feats that seem to be on par and above some the limits set by so called Sky father level beings. I think the general levels attributed to Skyfathers has to be revised. I mean Darksied is considered by many to be a Skyfather, and he's pawned consistently nowadays by Supes (Some generally considered below the Herald level). King Thor (Considered a very powerful skyfather), has shown limits that his classic rendition could surpass. IMO the whole matter needs to revised.

Originally posted by manjaro
superman prime anyone...?

1. all that and a bag of chips
2. created his own pantheon
3. 85,000 years of solar charged cells
4. was still more powerful than all the superman dynasty, tho over the centuries they had mixed with the 5th dimension and gained 5d power
5. he even amped up thier power at will

superman prime.....true skyfather

I think 1 million has a case for the Skyfather level aswell. I mean King Thor didn't do anything to suggest he was far superior to Superman 1 million

Originally posted by long pig
See, I don't understand how one can say Superman is herald level. In my vast and wondrous mind, a "herald-cosmic" character MUST HAVE certain powers. Strength and speed are very, very low on must haves.

Must haves:
1:A high-end degree of Matter control/manipulation.
2: A high end degree of Telepathy, not just passive.
3:Nearly if not limitless power reserves.
4:Reality control to a medium range.
5:Time control to a medium range.

That's the top five and as you can see, none of those deal with brute power or strength. They come later:

1:Blasts that can destroy a planet.
2: Durability that can handle nearly anything thrown at them INCLUDING magic and physical.
3: Speed.
4: Something like a sixth sense.
5:High end strength.

And honestly, Superman only has #4,#3 and #5. Therefore, I can't honestly say he's cosmic/herald.

Ok the only Herald that can safely say he qualifies in all those categories is the Surfer (Although many would suggest that he cannot handle moljnir, nearly aswell as you are stating). Infact very few Skyfathers have proven they can do all the above. You just prtesume they can, because Odin once 'one shotted' Surfer.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
8 -10 notches .... I dont think the Surfer is 8 - 10 notches behind the likes off Zeus and rama etc

Also many of the higher tier characters have feats that seem to be on par and above some the limits set by so called Sky father level beings. I think the general levels attributed to Skyfathers has to be revised. I mean Darksied is considered by many to be a Skyfather, and he's pawned consistently nowadays by Supes (Some generally considered below the Herald level). King Thor (Considered a very powerful skyfather), has shown limits that his classic rendition could surpass. IMO the whole matter needs to revised.

i was thinking in terms of galactus, i should have thought that thru some more...the gods of myth usually just have energy powers more than anything else..cuz if i were to go by Zeus, Odin, and maybe even an eternal or two (Zuras,Mentor) exclusively i would have to throw Dormammu in there too

Originally posted by long pig
See, I don't understand how one can say Superman is herald level. In my vast and wondrous mind, a "herald-cosmic" character MUST HAVE certain powers. Strength and speed are very, very low on must haves.

Must haves:
1:A high-end degree of Matter control/manipulation.
2: A high end degree of Telepathy, not just passive.
3:Nearly if not limitless power reserves.
4:Reality control to a medium range.
5:Time control to a medium range.

That's the top five and as you can see, none of those deal with brute power or strength. They come later:

1:Blasts that can destroy a planet.
2: Durability that can handle nearly anything thrown at them INCLUDING magic and physical.
3: Speed.
4: Something like a sixth sense.
5:High end strength.

And honestly, Superman only has #4,#3 and #5. Therefore, I can't honestly say he's cosmic/herald.
Most heralds of Galactus don't even have those powers.

Originally posted by manjaro
superman prime anyone...?

1. all that and a bag of chips
2. created his own pantheon
3. 85,000 years of solar charged cells
4. was still more powerful than all the superman dynasty, tho over the centuries they had mixed with the 5th dimension and gained 5d power
5. he even amped up thier power at will

superman prime.....true skyfather

Didn't create his own pantheon. He came out the sun, and had a pantheon waiting for him.

And he was probably more powerful than the other supermen in some areas, but they still may have had the means to beat him.

Superman is called the most powerful being in this part of the space time continum, but we know Fate, GL and Zatanna would own him under the right circumstances.
Fanfare is just that. Fanfare.

And he didn't show any versatility that any skyfather i know has.

The variety of Darkseid, Izaya or Odin.

Why does Superman get a pass when he gets a powerup??

And Long pig, the list you described only matches the Surfers power list.
Thats the problem with herald level. It doesn't exist.

Many different heralds, but none are Surfer. Its just a title.

In all honesty most skyfathers have few feats. They usually dont resort to combat and this has been shown many times thru the years. In fact Odin probably has more on panel feats than any other skyfather. The only reason for that is he got more press. The marvel handbooks tell plenty on some skyfathers buts thats about it. In the case of King Thor he only had 20 or so issues and had few feats there.(caps shield was pretty awsome, no one's ever done that befor) Most skyfathers see combat as beneath them so they just set on thier thrones and rule. Skyfather is very missused term. Neither skyfather or herald are an accurate term at all.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And Long pig, the list you described only matches the Surfers power list.
Thats the problem with herald level. It doesn't exist.

Many different heralds, but none are Surfer. Its just a title.
Raw power + formidability. Is someone going to tell me PC Validus isn't herald level (or above) because he has nothing but strength, durability, and mental lightning? Mangog not herald level either? The Destroyer?

If someone can give Silver Surfer a good fight, they're herald level, if they can match Odin they're Skyfather, simple!

Originally posted by Validus
Raw power + formidability. Is someone going to tell me PC Validus isn't herald level (or above) because he has nothing but strength, durability, and mental lightning? Mangog not herald level either? The Destroyer?

I maintain that herald level doesn't exist.

Only top tier and the like.
And Validus and the Destroyer are clearly above the top tier.

Terrax is a herald, but he isn't as powerful as Surfer.

Does that mean Ironman is herald level, since i'd give him odds on Terrax?
Nope.

The Human Torch was a herald, but he wasn't top tier.
Is he still herald level?

Thats the flaw in that thinking.

Top tier and Herald level are interchangeable terms for most.

Originally posted by Validus
Most heralds of Galactus don't even have those powers.

Thats what i said .... Infact I cant think of any character in marvel (with the exception of maybe Thanos and the Mangog) have taken Moljnir as if it where nothing

Originally posted by Validus
Top tier and Herald level are interchangeable terms for most.

Well, i ain't most people!!

Originally posted by UniOmni
Didn't create his own pantheon. He came out the sun, and had a pantheon waiting for him.
i didnt mean than literally opf course he paased on the legacy to one person and that individual was so inspired he thought to do the same thing and before you know it, a dynasty was created and then the same way you had thousands of ppl in the GL corps thier were a myriad of "supermen: and he did at times amp up thier powrr levels when he saw fit...thats the type of shit gods do when it amuses them

as far as herald thats not really a big deal, cuz if you go by profiles just about anybody can be a freaking herald cuz first of all firelord, nova, red shift , johnny storm and air walker were all in the same tier.... and all of these at the hieght of thier abilites would still be no match for reg. kal-el.

the destroyer didnt even get any of the PC, and he was a herald... galactus just sicced it on planets..and of course the way for years marvel has been toying with the idea of expanding on the notion via retcon that gladiator was once a herald, and we all se that while a cosmic being he doesnt have the PC either.. so reg superman would be a high level herald.

a dude like thanos is a mid level sky father, especially since he lierally created life in his thanosi through sorcery, cloning, and science...startting with the ones that thought they WERE him to the ones that called him "father" he even once referred to his brood as "godlings" further soldifying the fact that he was more powerful than they were and his thanosi tho made from his stock were individuals with individual personalities and they could actually go off and start families of thier own if they were given the oppporunity, so he could create a pantheon if he felt like it

Originally posted by manjaro
i didnt mean than literally opf course he paased on the legacy to one person and that individual was so inspired he thought to do the same thing and before you know it, a dynasty was created and then the same way you had thousands of ppl in the GL corps thier were a myriad of "supermen: and he did at times amp up thier powrr levels when he saw fit...thats the type of shit gods do when it amuses them

as far as herald thats not really a big deal, cuz if you go by profiles just about anybody can be a freaking herald cuz first of all firelord, nova, red shift , johnny storm and air walker were all in the same tier.... and all of these at the hieght of thier abilites would still be no match for reg. kal-el.

the destroyer didnt even get any of the PC, and he was a herald... galactus just sicced it on planets..and of course the way for years marvel has been toying with the idea of expanding on the notion via retcon that gladiator was once a herald, and we all se that while a cosmic being he doesnt have the PC either.. so reg superman would be a high level herald.

a dude like thanos is a mid level sky father, especially since he lierally created life in his thanosi through sorcery, cloning, and science...startting with the ones that thought they WERE him to the ones that called him "father" he even once referred to his brood as "godlings" further soldifying the fact that he was more powerful than they were and his thanosi tho made from his stock were individuals with individual personalities and they could actually go off and start families of thier own if they were given the oppporunity, so he could create a pantheon if he felt like it

Wooh that was very interesting .... I think that Gladiator could do with a mini and a specific origin. If it was written by someone decent i think it would literally sell millions, especially with all those Marvelites who secretly wish that Superman was a marvel character.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Wooh that was very interesting .... I think that Gladiator could do with a mini and a specific origin. If it was written by someone decent i think it would literally sell millions, especially with all those Marvelites who secretly wish that Superman was a marvel character.

DC can keep Superman.
All he'd do in Marvel is bring another unneeded jobber aura and annoy fans.

Originally posted by UniOmni
DC can keep Superman.
All he'd do in Marvel is bring another unneeded jobber aura and annoy fans.

I was refering to some of the generally less intelligent members, who like to spend copius amounts of time bashing Superman, for no real justifiable reason other than him being a D.C. character (who they wish was a Marvle one).

I tried reading Supes about 18 years ago. I am for another glad he's not a marvel character. My god the pre crisis stuff was awful.

Originally posted by MJOILNIR
I tried reading Supes about 18 years ago. I am for another glad he's not a marvel character. My god the pre crisis stuff was awful.

I've only been reading comics for the 3 years, but i've read some of the Allan Moore Silverage stuff, and i think its pretty cool. And its my mate Whirlys favourite era.

Whirly needs to come back.

Originally posted by Juntai
Whirly needs to come back.

He would need a new computer, because he is very very banned.

Originally posted by Validus
Most heralds of Galactus don't even have those powers.
Indeed. Maybe my idea of a uber-cosmic is higher than Surfer. Actually, I know it is.

Just as I use the term "Skyfather" loosely, I just "Herald" the same way. That's what the whole thread is about, you don't have to be a Skyfather to have that much power and you don't even need to know who Galactus is to have Herald power.

I simply put forth a ton of powers I see fit for an uber-cosmic. Above Herald, below slightly Skyfather.

Originally posted by long pig
Indeed. Maybe my idea of a uber-cosmic is higher than Surfer. Actually, I know it is.

Just as I use the term "Skyfather" loosely, I just "Herald" the same way. That's what the whole thread is about, you don't have to be a Skyfather to have that much power and you don't even need to know who Galactus is to have Herald power.

I simply put forth a ton of powers I see fit for an uber-cosmic. Above Herald, below slightly Skyfather.

That means that there are Sky-fathers that are below Herald level. Thats seems a bit inaccurate ?

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
That means that there are Sky-fathers that are below Herald level. Thats seems a bit inaccurate ?

Not so.
What else would you consider Superman and the JLA??

Superman is the skyfather according to some, while the JLA is the pantheon that he is powerful enough to demolish at will.

Yet he is still not as powerful as Surfer, so maybe there are skyfathers that are below herald level.............Surfer herald level that is.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Not so.
What else would you consider Superman and the JLA??

Superman is the skyfather according to some, while the JLA is the pantheon that he is powerful enough to demolish at will.

Yet he is still not as powerful as Surfer, so maybe there are skyfathers that are below herald level.............Surfer herald level that is.

Ok, the JLA are not an official patheon of Gods ....

Youre second point is a bit of an oxymoron. Its like saying Theo Walcott has only played for England once, so he doesn't deserve to be given a cap ? A cap by definition means that a player has played for his national team. If you think the name of the powerlevel is flawed, don't confuse people more by enforcing something that doesn't really make sense. Change the name of the powerlevel. Everyone wins, no one is confused.

uhm, is adam warlock, gladiator, sentry, hyperion, black bolt herald level?

herald level to me is a bit vague when used as a powerset....

and isnt skyfather a title for beings like odin, zeus, and vishnu who are titular heads of their respective pantheons....

Skyfathers are beings capable of destroying galaxies.

lol.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
lol.

God I thought I was such a smart ass back then ... I doubt anyone from that era except Validus even posts on here anymore.

Holy god. If there was ever a good excuse for a preventative closing, this is it. Don't know what herald or Skyfather means? Ask in the questions thread for some general answers. Because I guarantee the forum will never form an exact definition, so it's better just to estimate and/or form your own opinion.