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...when they blow themselves up. Quite a crude way of saying it , but the fanatical sects of the Muslim community are obviously stripping themselves of their earthly bodies for some sort of divine gift.

So pony up my friends , what in the name of Ra is it hmmm ?

72 virgins is the reward.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
72 virgins is the reward.


That's why most of the Bombers/Terrorists are usually 18-25(it might be higher than 25, not sure, have to look)

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
That's why most of the Bombers/Terrorists are usually 18-25(it might be higher than 25, not sure, have to look)

Hell, most soldiers throughout history have been 18-25. They die in battle while the older guys scheme with their lives...that's how it's always been, 72 virgins or not.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hell, most soldiers throughout history have been 18-25. They die in battle while the older guys scheme with their lives...that's how it's always been, 72 virgins or not.

True, but most soldiers hold to the idea of living through the war and going home to their girl. Not true of suicide murderers though, they know they'll die and cling to a lie about getting a reward afterwards.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
72 virgins is the reward.

What I do not understand is, where do all these virgins come from? Are Islamic virgin women being killed/dying in such high numbers that heaven has a ready supply for these would be martyrs/terrorist to fornicate with? Or, are these purely heaven made virgins who never had a body on earth?

Originally posted by grey fox
...when they blow themselves up. Quite a crude way of saying it , but the fanatical sects of the Muslim community are obviously stripping themselves of their earthly bodies for some sort of divine gift.

So pony up my friends , what in the name of Ra is it hmmm ?

What a stupid thread title.

What the hell do you get when you blow yourself up?

Originally posted by docb77
True, but most soldiers hold to the idea of living through the war and going home to their girl. Not true of suicide murderers though, they know they'll die and cling to a lie about getting a reward afterwards.

Not true. Most soldiers didnt survive war and they spent several years away from their homes. Islamic terrorists who commit suicide are sacrificign their physical life for their spiritual one. Lie or not...its not to them. Thats what matters.

Originally posted by Alliance
Not true. Most soldiers didnt survive war and they spent several years away from their homes. Islamic terrorists who commit suicide are sacrificign their physical life for their spiritual one. Lie or not...its not to them. Thats what matters.

Truish. And not, inherently different, from martyrs from any number of faiths who thought by actively seeking death, or at least not trying to avoid it, would be rewarded after death for their... dedication to the cause.

Why would anyone want 72 virgins ? Virgins are never good to tumble with , their awkward and barely know what their doing...

Originally posted by Alliance
What a stupid thread title.

What the hell do you get when you blow yourself up?

Did you not read my reply?

The reward for martyrs are 72 virgins. To sacrifice oneself for God, for Qur'an in this case is being a martyr.

Originally posted by Robtard
What I do not understand is, where do all these virgins come from? Are Islamic virgin women being killed/dying in such high numbers that heaven has a ready supply for these would be martyrs/terrorist to fornicate with? Or, are these purely heaven made virgins who never had a body on earth?

Seriously, I am not sure. There are debates on what women martyrs get, at present.

At any rate, the virgins are supposed to be pure, like no other women on earth. I think more like angels actually...as far as I understand.

A majority of Islamic females are in Hell anyway, or so the prophet Muhammad says.

Originally posted by grey fox
Why would anyone want 72 virgins ? Virgins are never good to tumble with , their awkward and barely know what their doing...

lol Robin Williams made a similar joke regarding that. Funny.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Truish. And not, inherently different, from martyrs from any number of faiths who thought by actively seeking death, or at least not trying to avoid it, would be rewarded after death for their... dedication to the cause.

Well, the "get into heavan free" pass is the reward. Just beacuse your reward isnt physical, doesnt mean its any less of a reward.

And dont forget their families get huge sums of money.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Did you not read my reply?

The reward for martyrs are 72 virgins. To sacrifice oneself for God, for Qur'an in this case is being a martyr.

I know what Islam says, but this thread reaks of gross misconceptions and racism. It just ticked me off.

What do suicide bombers get?

They get out of a life in which they feel fearful and powerless, first by adopting a mindset of honor in a war they need to believe their side is gonna win; then by going *BOOM*.

I wouldn't say that they are powerless.

These paramilitary organizations give these people a tremendous about of pride and direction (like the military tiself). This gives them a tremendous amount of status in the community.

Suicide bombers power comes from these organizations, not themselves...which is what i believe you are critiquing.

Its not that they're powerless, its the source of hte power.

It's the initial sense of powerlessness which drives them to seek empowerment in that fashion.

You'd fell pretty powerless if you grew up like many to-be-terrorists did too.

Absolutely...although not all choose the terrorist's path.

No. But its entirely logical why some choose too.

Originally posted by grey fox
...when they blow themselves up. Quite a crude way of saying it , but the fanatical sects of the Muslim community are obviously stripping themselves of their earthly bodies for some sort of divine gift.

So pony up my friends , what in the name of Ra is it hmmm ?

Now please, it's not all muslims! It's just the religous zealots who think that they're doing the work of god, while in reality, they are doing what is against everything that any religon teaches. And I hope that that Ra comment wasn't an obscene racial comment.

Originally posted by Alliance
No. But its entirely logical why some choose too.

I'm not sure "logical" is the right word, but certainly "understandable."

logical as in there is a clear rationale...

to me thats logic...though you may disagree with their decision.

While logic is certainly involved, the reason I'm not comfortable with the word is because, killing yourself is a decision highly powered by emotion, so it isn't just headwork that is leading them to that choice.

"Understandable," IMO, implies a taking in of where suicide bombers are coming from emotionally as well as rationally.

Some people believe that killing youself to achieve a greater goal is an acceptable option. I cant entirely disagree with that.

Its not a choice that is enitrely powered by emotion, there is much logic involved...hence the terrorists selection of vulnerable and devastating targets.

Much like the Buddhist monks who set themseles on fire to protest the Ngo Dinh Diem Regime.

Originally posted by Alliance
1. Some people believe that killing youself to achieve a greater goal is an acceptable option. I cant entirely disagree with that.

2. Its not a choice that is enitrely powered by emotion, there is much logic involved...hence the terrorists selection of vulnerable and devastating targets.

1. Neither can I, as your Buddhist monk example illustrates (though note, he is killing only himself). It depends on the goal and whatever other options may/may not be available.

2. Agreed. As I said, logic is involved, but the driving force which logic serves is emotional.

Originally posted by Alliance
I know what Islam says, but this thread reaks of gross misconceptions and racism. It just ticked me off.
sorry missunderstanding.

What did you mean?

Originally posted by Alliance
No. But its entirely logical why some choose too.

Logical? If some guy told me to go blow myself up and kill infidels in the process because this would serve Allah to the fullest and ensure my place in heaven, my first question to this wise man would be, "Why aren't you leading by example?"

Originally posted by Mindship
2. Agreed. As I said, logic is involved, but the driving force which logic serves is emotional.

But cant you just say everything is some lame attempt to satisfy an emotional need? You pray because it makes you feel better, as you do when you bring your girfreind flowers. S&M hurts a lot, but you get a greater sexual pleasure.

You could just say that everything is simply an emotional need.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
sorry missunderstanding.

What did you mean?
np, i just meant if you went and blew yourself up, what do you think you would get?
Originally posted by Robtard
Logical? If some guy told me to go blow myself up and kill infidels in the process because this would serve Allah to the fullest and ensure my place in heaven, my first question to this wise man would be, "Why aren't you leading by example?"
Its not that simple. These people are raised in a world of poverty and isolation. They are born and bred in an environment that makes them exceedingly exploitable. Some want to blow themseleves up, because their vision of an afterlife is all they have to live for.

So yes, the rationale for why people become terrorists is perfectly logical.

And not everyone leads by example. "teachers" stay behind. Besides...if these men are ordained by god, who are you to question what god has chosen their role to be?

Originally posted by Alliance
I know what Islam says, but this thread reaks of gross misconceptions and racism. It just ticked me off.

Excuse me , you reek of bullshit and self implied 733tism but that doesn't mean it's true. If i wanted to be racist and full of misconception I would have posted something along the liens of...

"Why are all these muslim bastard blowing themselves up in my country the quiran is bullshit kill the ****ing islam scum"

I posted this thread as a legible question , their are various rumours and falsehoods floating around as to why the suicide bombers are doing this. I'd like to sift the truth from the crap.

Now if your done whining about me asking a legitimate question then please remove yourself from the thread , or to put it more simply. If you dont like it , leave.

Originally posted by Council#13
Now please, it's not all muslims! It's just the religous zealots who think that they're doing the work of god, while in reality, they are doing what is against everything that any religon teaches. And I hope that that Ra comment wasn't an obscene racial comment.

A. Notice i said Fanatical Sects . I understand completely that a large amount of the muslim community doesn't condone nay tolerate the few who believe that killing Westerners will get them anywhere or that blowing yourself up is a 'good' thing as long as you take as many people with you as possible.

B. The Ra comment was because i was picking a outdated and rarely used religion at random as to not offend any of the various christians , muslims , jews etc etc

Double post , my bad.

What they should get: Burial in a vat of pig fat. Methinks bombing would stop then.

Originally posted by Lumanix
What they should get: Burial in a vat of pig fat. Methinks bombing would stop then.

Perhaps , a tad over the top but aside from that acceptable.

Originally posted by grey fox
Perhaps , a tad over the top but aside from that acceptable. Not to them, and you'd have millions of screaming Islamics. But what else to do? Let them blow people up? Simple solution: Putting remains in pig lard to save lives.

But then wouldn't that cause more problems in itself , although the prospect of being denied what you just blew yourself up for does sound like a promising idea...

A growing number of psychologists and political scientists would be finding that military occupation, alienation and perceptions of general political oppression, not the rantings of radical clerics or the indoctrination of students in madrassas, fuel extreme violence in the Muslim world.
People become terrorists through social networks and emotional bonds, not because of religious devotion or indoctrination. Religious belief may help sustain terrorists' commitment to the jihad, but it is not what causes them to join in the first place. Terrorism is seen as a form of empowerment. For people who feel dispossessed or politically oppressed, participating in terrorist activities is a way of finding empowerment in a situation where people perceive no other choice exists. This is Nichole Argo' s interpretation of the scholars she surveyed (a freelance journalist and doctoral student in political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology).

This research is clearly controversial and at odds with the common interpretation advanced by governments and the news media.

Originally posted by Storm
A growing number of psychologists and political scientists would be finding that military occupation, alienation and perceptions of general political oppression, not the rantings of radical clerics or the indoctrination of students in madrassas, fuel extreme violence in the Muslim world.
People become terrorists through social networks and emotional bonds, not because of religious devotion or indoctrination. Religious belief may help sustain terrorists' commitment to the jihad, but it is not what causes them to join in the first place. Terrorism is seen as a form of empowerment. For people who feel dispossessed or politically oppressed, participating in terrorist activities is a way of finding empowerment in a situation where people perceive no other choice exists. This is Nichole Argo' s interpretation of the scholars she surveyed (a freelance journalist and doctoral student in political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology).

This research is clearly controversial and at odds with the common interpretation advanced by governments and the news media.

Of course and i understand that completely. But (not to sound rude) i honestly only wondered about the spiritual side of it. I do understand that there is politics, discrimination hate and various other emotional factors to key in .

the religious side is this. the american presence in iraq in afghanistan is polarizing the islamic communities in those respective countries. thanks to this the extremes are becoming more popular. either you love the americans or you hate them and wish them dead. the fundamentalists prey on that and use it to convince people that the quran says they will be rewarded in heaven if they sacrifice themselves. think middle ages and the promises of the pope to the knights. similar idea.

To me, If someone blows themselves and others up on the promise of 70-odd virgins that sounds more like a SEXUAL incentive, not a spiritual one.

The apparent fact that books of peace are being used to justify murder on BOTH sides is worrying.

Take the Zionist 'endtimes theology' being aimed for/facilitated by US in the middle east right now for example...

Anyone who doesnt know what 'Endtimes theology' is, then they may wanna google it and see what the Neo-cons are up to/aiming for.

Worried the shit out of me...

it is not as simple as sexual pleasures. it is what everyone else in the world wants, an assurance that you are a good person and you are doing what you are meant to do and that your god will be happy with you.

Originally posted by grey fox
Excuse me , you reek of bullshit and self implied 733tism but that doesn't mean it's true. If i wanted to be racist and full of misconception I would have posted something along the liens of...

"Why are all these muslim bastard blowing themselves up in my country the quiran is bullshit kill the ****ing islam scum"

I posted this thread as a legible question , their are various rumours and falsehoods floating around as to why the suicide bombers are doing this. I'd like to sift the truth from the crap.

Now if your done whining about me asking a legitimate question then please remove yourself from the thread , or to put it more simply. If you dont like it , leave.



A. Notice i said Fanatical Sects . I understand completely that a large amount of the muslim community doesn't condone nay tolerate the few who believe that killing Westerners will get them anywhere or that blowing yourself up is a 'good' thing as long as you take as many people with you as possible.

B. The Ra comment was because i was picking a outdated and rarely used religion at random as to not offend any of the various christians , muslims , jews etc etc

Oh right! We're good I apologize if I offended you

Originally posted by Alliance
You could just say that everything is simply an emotional need.

Of course. Human beings are complex beings. But there are, first of all, the primal or "reptilian" emotions -- fear and anger -- which have to do with survival; and then there are the higher or "mammalian" emotions, like love. Suicide bombers operate from primal emotions.

There is also the intensity of emotion; emotions are sometimes so intense they completely skew any rational thinking (though the thought process may be "rational" relative to the intense emotion). Suicide bombers come from a very intense emotional space.

Originally posted by Storm
A growing number of psychologists and political scientists would be finding that military occupation, alienation and perceptions of general political oppression, not the rantings of radical clerics or the indoctrination of students in madrassas, fuel extreme violence in the Muslim world.
People become terrorists through social networks and emotional bonds, not because of religious devotion or indoctrination. Religious belief may help sustain terrorists' commitment to the jihad, but it is not what causes them to join in the first place. Terrorism is seen as a form of empowerment. For people who feel dispossessed or politically oppressed, participating in terrorist activities is a way of finding empowerment in a situation where people perceive no other choice exists. This is Nichole Argo' s interpretation of the scholars she surveyed (a freelance journalist and doctoral student in political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology).

This research is clearly controversial and at odds with the common interpretation advanced by governments and the news media.

Controversial....not to my knowledge. Its logical. (and something I've believed for a while)

Add in the anger over Isreal and US over-involvment in affairs it has no business in....you get *poof* modern terrorism.

The best part is...if you use this defenition...the "War on Terror" will do nothing but create more terror.

Originally posted by Storm
A growing number of psychologists and political scientists would be finding that military occupation, alienation and perceptions of general political oppression, not the rantings of radical clerics or the indoctrination of students in madrassas, fuel extreme violence in the Muslim world.
People become terrorists through social networks and emotional bonds, not because of religious devotion or indoctrination. Religious belief may help sustain terrorists' commitment to the jihad, but it is not what causes them to join in the first place. Terrorism is seen as a form of empowerment. For people who feel dispossessed or politically oppressed, participating in terrorist activities is a way of finding empowerment in a situation where people perceive no other choice exists. This is Nichole Argo' s interpretation of the scholars she surveyed (a freelance journalist and doctoral student in political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology).

This research is clearly controversial and at odds with the common interpretation advanced by governments and the news media.

while religion may not be why the young men who are perpetrating the terrorist acts join the cause it is as you put it the sustaining factor in remaining active in the terrorist world. so the question then becomes, what allows these young men to be able to finish the job so to speak. is it the empowerment for the people they will leave behind, the freedom they will attain for their family. both of these are possibilities and i am sure that the reasons vary with each individual. or could the reason for following through be that you are guaranteed salvation and honor for eternity. the religious aspect may not be what brings them to the table but it is almost asuredly what causes them to stay and eat. the message given by these CLERICS is that you can not separate the two. it is inherently a religious and political question. of course occupation breeds terrorism that is not a new concept, read a history book and you will find that to be the case regardless of religion caste or creed. however, what does make this different is that it is done in the name of god. that is a fact that can not be overlooked. the reason for the terrorism is that the islam that is being preached to these impressionable young men is that martyrdom is admired and adored. martyrdom is something to aspire to. you can not say that mere social attachments is enough to cause a person to commit suicide and take other people with them. it takes something rather personal, intrinsic, and extremely important to a person to commit such an act. for these indoctrinated young men it is their idea of islam and what god wants them to do.

which brings me to another question. a man in america kills several abortion doctors because he says it is the work of god and that god wants him to do it and he will be rewarded for it. why is it we condemn that man without a second thought, without looking for the social group that has caused this innocent man to err in his judgement. we condemn him. however we try to alleviate at least some of the responsibility these young men possess simply because we may not like the policy of the u.s. government. this seems contradictory to me. either they are both guilty and should be hunted down and punished (my favorite) or we alleviate both groups guilt and say that societal pressures and affiliations made them do it. either way we can't have it both ways.

i know that i have touched on an issue in abortion that is sensitive. just for the record it seemed to be the most appropriate to make my point. i am pro-abortion just for those that may think otherwise. a doctor trained in the u.s. with experience is better than a doc in south america or lain america or the carribean as it was done until roe v wade.

Originally posted by BuzzKiller
which brings me to another question. a man in america kills several abortion doctors because he says it is the work of god and that god wants him to do it and he will be rewarded for it. why is it we condemn that man without a second thought, without looking for the social group that has caused this innocent man to err in his judgement.

Becuase many poeple have problems actually addressing the problem. Its easier to blame it on the individual, than to address a failure of society.

i see it as an american phenomenon. we tend to want to blame ourselves for all of the bad in the world. just because yes we have a lot of influence in the world at this moment. but we are by no means the most powerful country in history. those countries never blamed themselves, they were the cure. we are the first world powerto see oureslves as a problem while we are in power. it is truly unique. this is why we do what i stated above. because we are a self loathing country that flexes its muscle then feels bad about it afterward.

well...we havent felt bad enough to stop doing it.

A growing number of psychologists and political scientists would be finding that military occupation, alienation and perceptions of general political oppression, not the rantings of radical clerics or the indoctrination of students in madrassas, fuel extreme violence in the Muslim world.
People become terrorists through social networks and emotional bonds, not because of religious devotion or indoctrination. Religious belief may help sustain terrorists' commitment to the jihad, but it is not what causes them to join in the first place. Terrorism is seen as a form of empowerment. For people who feel dispossessed or politically oppressed, participating in terrorist activities is a way of finding empowerment in a situation where people perceive no other choice exists. This is Nichole Argo' s interpretation of the scholars she surveyed (a freelance journalist and doctoral student in political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology).


Parts italicized to remind people that the above ain't gospel.

Practically nothing is gospel...thats why "gosepels" suck.

However it is logical and also the mecahnism I would ascribe to the situation.

Originally posted by Alliance
Practically nothing is gospel...
Does that include this...
However it is logical and also the mecahnism I would ascribe to the situation.

Originally posted by Alliance

Not true. Most soldiers didnt survive war and they spent several years away from their homes. Islamic terrorists who commit suicide are sacrificign their physical life for their spiritual one. Lie or not...its not to them. Thats what matters.

Ah, but it is true, whether they died or not, most real soldiers want to go on living.

As far as the suicide bombers "spiritual reward", it matter only as far as they believe it, if we can convince them that their going to hell instead, it will cause many less headaches.

Originally posted by docb77
Ah, but it is true, whether they died or not, most real soldiers want to go on living.

As far as the suicide bombers "spiritual reward", it matter only as far as they believe it, if we can convince them that their going to hell instead, it will cause many less headaches.

Meh, but then they could tried to do the same to the religious people who oppose them. And you have to ask yourself - could a suicide bomber convince you to that you were going to hell if you don't join them? No? The it is unlikely a lot of the fanatical ones could be convinced they are going to hell. That's the thing with spiritual rewards - there is no way to prove or disprove them, so it all comes down to ones sides word against the others.

Originally posted by grey fox
...when they blow themselves up. Quite a crude way of saying it , but the fanatical sects of the Muslim community are obviously stripping themselves of their earthly bodies for some sort of divine gift.

So pony up my friends , what in the name of Ra is it hmmm ?

That's the point isn't it? Wat causes them 2 end their life in such a brutal way that their remains r swept into dustbins n not buried in their graves in a peaceful manner? To b honest,it's U!

Their demands hav always bin bring back the brit soldiers 4m Iraq n so n so,but they never did.Instead nore brutal n disturbin visuals of brits beatin innocent Iraqi teenagers 2 death came.It all angers them.Though I m not defendin them n their deeds so plz don't waste ur time sayin that I m :P
When the jews kill 600 Labanese 4 2 soldiers n destroy the whole country,with america n britain standin back n watchin it all silently,they r angered that they didn't do anythin when they cud 2 prevent it all.N some organizations then use these ppl with anger n agony 2 do their biddin tellin them that they wud get Heaven in reward.
Sadly,that's how it all is.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
72 virgins is the reward.

Suiciders get Hell,silly. :P

they blow them selves up because they are brainwashed and ignorant

Then they go out and celebrate......Hmmm wonder what kind of beer they have there??

Likely tha same beer they have everywhere else.

Budweiser??

Originally posted by debbiejo
Budweiser??

Yuck!

Alcohol

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
72 virgins is the reward.
exactly. it is glorious to them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
exactly. it is glorious to them. But 72 virgins for all eternity isn't really a great deal......That would get old.

I'm sure, since its "god," he could fix that issue.

Yet Gods word changes not......

...

1. I doesnt have to change. If they are virgins...then they are ALWAYS virgins (take that how you will)

2. He can speak new word.

3. It doesnt exist anyway so why do we care.

I don't know.........why do we care.??? But look, eternity with one person is bad enough. Look at Zeus and Hera. Not much better with 72 when you're talking about eternity.

Look at the entire greek Pantheon...

..gives new depth to the concept of a Greek family.

Yes and they all had love affairs.....

Originally posted by debbiejo
But 72 virgins for all eternity isn't really a great deal......That would get old.
i am not quite sure what they get, but they believe by doing this they earn a trip to their version of heaven.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes and they all had love affairs.....

Yes. Religion used to be realistic.

Religion has squashed mans natural desires and curiosities making them evil.

evil is a point of view.

so must good be then

most definately.

"the answer my friend is blowing in the wind" -BD

Originally posted by finti
"the answer my friend is blowing in the wind" -BD
shadows and dust, maximus?

There is a reason Proximo died.