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What's the deal with conservatives and rap.

They call rappers black trash yet they market their own company products using some type of Hip-Hop influence to promote their items.

Or they talk about the harsh messages in rap. What about the harsh messages in movies that are not only audible but visual as well. Crazy violence. And it last 1 and a half hours of it. rather than the 4 min in song that seems to get more attention. On top of which, a whole rap album isn't even as long as a movie. (i think.)

But like movies, I listen to rap for the entertainment it offers.

But I'd like to know what's your problem with it (If you hate rap music)

I like good hip-hop, I just don't like most newer mainstream shit. 'Cause it all sounds the same, and it all sucks... in my opinion.

It sux IMO... no good Lyrics, No Good Sound and They all sing about the same shit: Money, Sex, Drugs, pimp.. etc, etc..
And it sux balls... I cant understand The good thing with rap.. they don't even Show the rest of the "band" Its just the Singer Who gets the attention.. unlike the most Metal bands where every one get to be seen and have their Spot in the Light. But not in Most of the rapers Videos/Announcement.. i've only seen the Singer(s) Talk And seen on their Videos.

Originally posted by Swe_Bum
It sux IMO... no good Lyrics, No Good Sound and They all sing about the same shit: Money, Sex, Drugs, pimp.. etc, etc..
And it sux balls... I cant understand The good thing with rap.. they don't even Show the rest of the "band" Its just the Singer Who gets the attention.. unlike the most Metal bands where every one get to be seen and have their Spot in the Light. But not in Most of the rapers Videos/Announcement.. i've only seen the Singer(s) Talk And seen on their Videos.

this is simply a generalization. you're making an opinion on a genre of music based on what you've seen on television and heard on the radio.

you're missing out on real hip hop music.

Same here.

I mostly listen to 90's rap that came from the Biggie, Nas, Tupac, Wu-Tang era.

Most of the new stuff out now is garbage but it doesn't mean i hate rap. Like you, i hate bad hip-hip but as culture and music, it never made me pick up a weapon and assault someone because i heard a rapper make it sound cool to do so.

And I think that's one of the main reasons people who don't like rap, hate it. Cause they think it causes violence. Which is bull.

Yeah i also think that the "old" rap/hip-hop can Be OK..
But All thees 10.000 Diffrent "new" Rapers are SH!T!
And they all think they can sing and make good "music" but Nah..

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Same here.

I mostly listen to 90's rap that came from the Biggie, Nas, Tupac, Wu-Tang era.

Most of the new stuff out now is garbage but it doesn't mean i hate rap. Like you, i hate bad hip-hip but as culture and music, it never made me pick up a weapon and assault someone because i heard a rapper make it sound cool to do so.

And I think that's one of the main reasons people who don't like rap, hate it. Cause they think it causes violence. Which is bull. Saying that most new stuff sucks isn't really much better than saying most rap sucks period IMO. Good stuff is harder to find these days, it's not the golden age anymore, but there's still plenty of good stuff still coming out. Even 90's style rap isn't completely dead yet, Fishscale was a dope album, Meth's new album is good, and Raekwon's Cuban Linx II might be somewhat promising.

They don't listen to real hip hop. They listen to that pop shit.

once u listen to real hip hop and rap u will understand

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Saying that most new stuff sucks isn't really much better than saying most rap sucks period IMO. Good stuff is harder to find these days, it's not the golden age anymore, but there's still plenty of good stuff still coming out. Even 90's style rap isn't completely dead yet, Fishscale was a dope album, Meth's new album is good, and Raekwon's Cuban Linx II might be somewhat promising.

What I said make perfectly sensible. Most new stuff does suck now even compared to the 90's the rap scene was mostly hot. Sure it had it's commercial BS but the majority of rap was hot. Now it's in the reverse to me. Just like you said, good stuff is harder to find these days and why is that? Cause most new stuff sucks now. Finding good stuff in the 90's wasn't a problem at all.

And 90's rap is dead merely because were not in the 90's anymore. 90's rapper aren't dead is what I think you meant.

And it's "been" not the golden age any more... Since '93. Anything from '93 and on, till now, is the modern age of hip hop. And in that is the element of new age hip-hip which to me started after Biggie and Pac died. When all the BS started to surface, drawing me away from the game.

I changed my mind alot about hip hop actually and its not really about money, sex, and stuff lioke that. Thats mostly commercial rap. Eyo, if listen to underground or hip hop from really artist, youll like it. It wont be the so called "same shit"

No, there's more of a solid underground now thanks to the internet, most new rap doesn't suck, I'd say it's somewhere around 50/50.

No, I meant 90's style, as in the style of rap that was popular in the 90's.. some 90's rappers are still making the same kind of music.

93 the end of the golden age? Weird, 93-95 is the PEAK of the golden age if you ask me. I mean Wu-Tang's 36 Chambers was released in 93, Snoop's Doggystyle in 93, ATCQ's Midnight Marauders in 93, Illmatic in 94, Gang Starr's Hard To Earn in 94, Ready To Die in 94, Outkast's Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik in 94, Organized Konfusion's Stress: The Extinction Agenda in 94, Common Sense's Ressurection in 94, Mobb Deep's The Infamous in 95, Gza's Liquid Swords in 95, Raekwon's OB4CL in 95...

There are plenty of classics before and after that period but never have so many classic albums been released in such a short amount of time..

The only commercial rap i listen to is

Snoop dog
Dipset
D block
Nas
Black Rob
TI
Juelz Santana ((Dipset))
Young Jeezy
Jadakis

Originally posted by JacopeX
The only commercial rap i listen to is


Young Jeezy


The worst rapper you could ever listen to.

Originally posted by Swe_Bum
It sux IMO... no good Lyrics, No Good Sound and They all sing about the same shit: Money, Sex, Drugs, pimp.. etc, etc..
And it sux balls... I cant understand The good thing with rap.. they don't even Show the rest of the "band" Its just the Singer Who gets the attention.. unlike the most Metal bands where every one get to be seen and have their Spot in the Light. But not in Most of the rapers Videos/Announcement.. i've only seen the Singer(s) Talk And seen on their Videos.
If you think rap is about sex, drugs, pimping, you're right because that's why it was made.But all songs aren't about that.

You're messing something. There are no "bands" in rap except for a few groups. I don't know why you would want to see a producer or mixer.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese

93 the end of the golden age? Weird, 93-95 is the PEAK of the golden age if you ask me. I mean Wu-Tang's 36 Chambers was released in 93, Snoop's Doggystyle in 93, ATCQ's Midnight Marauders in 93, Illmatic in 94, Gang Starr's Hard To Earn in 94, Ready To Die in 94, Outkast's Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik in 94, Organized Konfusion's Stress: The Extinction Agenda in 94, Common Sense's Ressurection in 94, Mobb Deep's The Infamous in 95, Gza's Liquid Swords in 95, Raekwon's OB4CL in 95...

There are plenty of classics before and after that period but never have so many classic albums been released in such a short amount of time..

Nah, it's not weird. Here's how it goes:

70's to '86 = Old school hip-hop

'86 to '93 = Golden age of hip-hop

'93 to now = Modern age of hip-hop with (98 to now = New age of hip-hop) - still modern age -

When Dmx, Em, Canibus, Ja and 50 and everyone else started to come in. Basically after Big and Pac passed. Oh, and you forgot "Me Against the World" and the chronic. Yea the chronic came out in '92 but it's the only album I'll include in the modern age.

i go with Afro man, i think the golden age passed around 96' after Pac and Biggie died, although personally i dont think they're the gods people make them out to be, but hell everyone has their own opinion.

Most people generalize too much.... thats what it all boils down to

Originally posted by JacopeX
The only commercial rap i listen to is

Snoop dog
Dipset
D block
Nas
Black Rob
TI
Juelz Santana ((Dipset))
Young Jeezy
Jadakis you mentioned D Block and spelled Jadakiss wrong. Jadakiss is part of D Block

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
If you think rap is about sex, drugs, pimping, you're right because that's why it was made. that's not why it was made...

"im tryin' not to lose my head"

think stoopid

Hef, how did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by Swe_Bum
Yeah i also think that the "old" rap/hip-hop can Be OK..
But All thees 10.000 Diffrent "new" Rapers are SH!T!
And they all think they can sing and make good "music" but Nah..

here's hip hop lyrics at it's finest:

Illogic- Hate In A Puddle

I hate when it rains, cause in puddles I encounter this guy
Unable to give a rebuttal but swift as the pain flood his eyes
wonderin why he's a gift with no purpose
A priceless one-of-a-kind piece that's worthless
Grounded with no surface
And when he shows one, it's a facade
Cause inside he fights feelings that he was mistake by God
I see his confusion and self-deception
Questions of relevance and intelligence
He holds an illusion of self-acceptance
that he shows to those outside lookin in
He's outside lookin in to his own life; lookin for strength
to carry on as a pawn in this chess game of existance
In his mind he wants to go on to the dawn
and leave the stress that came with existance
Hopin in death he'll find life
Cause as he lives, he roams the dark, tryin to find light
He's made his heart so hard, he doesn't even cry anymore
Cause he's confronted sorrow frequently
His heart's been broken frequently
It's like he's lost some part of him and just haven't found it yet
So in his search, he's left with nothin but questions and regret
All he wants to know is how one day, he's content
and the next day he's cryin
cause his life isn't what he thought life meant
He just wants to be happy, with his love and all
But too often I get messages through telepathic calls
He's askin me through a puddle what more must he endure to continue
But for some reason he knows he most endure to continue

and if u like dark hardcore hip hop, i recommend Jedi Mind Tricks



Intersections in real time
The umbrokencircle in dimensions of the mind
Atomic bonds
The eternal time that defines
The vanity of my insanity in thru time
Will shine
Like the night seeds under the moon
The haunted corners of familiar rooms
Yet i'm consumed
With vanishing into thin air
The realization that this shit is my cross to bare
So where
Did I think I could run away to see
The people that decided to leave without asking me
But we
Decide to wait for happier tomorrows
And find someone so they can be distractions from our sorrows
For my distractions the books of paper that i've scrawlened
I'm eloquent in summer breeze and leaves just have fallen
I crawl in a corner hoping all of this will end
With the knowledge that love is just another word for revenge
I who have nothing but the comfort of my sins
I who have nothing but the comfort of my friends

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Nah, it's not weird. Here's how it goes:

70's to '86 = Old school hip-hop

'86 to '93 = Golden age of hip-hop

'93 to now = Modern age of hip-hop with (98 to now = New age of hip-hop) - still modern age -

When Dmx, Em, Canibus, Ja and 50 and everyone else started to come in. Basically after Big and Pac passed. Oh, and you forgot "Me Against the World" and the chronic. Yea the chronic came out in '92 but it's the only album I'll include in the modern age. Seems like too many labels to me. When I say golden age, I mean the era with the best hip hop, and the most of it. To me that's the late 80's and about the first 3/4 of the 90's. When I say old school I mean anything before 93 except The Chronic which is technically in december of 92.

i break it down like this

Hip Hop 70's- 96

Hip Hop Dead 97-2006

i agree

Originally posted by Swe_Bum
It sux IMO... no good Lyrics, No Good Sound and They all sing about the same shit: Money, Sex, Drugs, pimp.. etc, etc..
And it sux balls... I cant understand The good thing with rap.. they don't even Show the rest of the "band" Its just the Singer Who gets the attention.. unlike the most Metal bands where every one get to be seen and have their Spot in the Light. But not in Most of the rapers Videos/Announcement.. i've only seen the Singer(s) Talk And seen on their Videos.

I totally agree with you and see exactly where you're coming from. However with me it's not so much the lyrics; its the actual structure of the "music" itself. With rap there's no singing, no playing of an instrument, its just some guy talking on a mic. Where's the talent in that??? You might as well listen to a lecture from a professor or a politician's speech.

Also, rhyming doesn't automatically make it music, just like reading a nursery rhyme outloud doesn't equal music.

Originally posted by Frigid Soul
I totally agree with you and see exactly where you're coming from. However with me it's not so much the lyrics; its the actual structure of the "music" itself. With rap there's no singing, no playing of an instrument, its just some guy talking on a mic. Where's the talent in that??? You might as well listen to a lecture from a professor or a politician's speech.

Also, rhyming doesn't automatically make it music, just like reading a nursery rhyme outloud doesn't equal music. not true. Many mc's play instruments, and sing on tracks.

Originally posted by Frigid Soul


With rap there's no singing, no playing of an instrument, its just some guy talking on a mic. Where's the talent in that???

You might as well listen to a lecture from a professor or a politician's speech.

Also, rhyming doesn't automatically make it music,

just like reading a nursery rhyme outloud doesn't equal music.


^ To say that just goes to show that the element of ignorance has to do with why "they" hate rap. This persons last rap song heard must've been a Will Smith track that a pop station, he listens alot, accidentally slipped into it's play-list.

Wow. I'm beginning to see where the problem is. People don't even know about rap. They just know it exists. And people fear or are uncomfortable with things they don't understand. They end up not bothering with it and it results in a negative experience while associating negative experience with subject by saying nothing but bad things about it.

ive never put rap into categories. i like newer stuff underground guys are putting out a lot more than any golden era records. i just dont see the point of labeling things, it just creates boundaries.

Originally posted by -hh-
you mentioned D Block and spelled Jadakiss wrong. Jadakiss is part of D Block

Well at least i said Juelz Santana ((Dipset))

Originally posted by JacopeX
Well at least i said Juelz Santana ((Dipset))

what does that have to do with anything i said dumbass

Ok then, lets go back to your subject:

I made a mistake there

Originally posted by JacopeX
Ok then, lets go back to your subject:

I made a mistake there Congratu****inglations

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
What's the deal with conservatives and rap.

They call rappers black trash yet they market their own company products using some type of Hip-Hop influence to promote their items.

Or they talk about the harsh messages in rap. What about the harsh messages in movies that are not only audible but visual as well. Crazy violence. And it last 1 and a half hours of it. rather than the 4 min in song that seems to get more attention. On top of which, a whole rap album isn't even as long as a movie. (i think.)

But like movies, I listen to rap for the entertainment it offers.

But I'd like to know what's your problem with it (If you hate rap music)

The f*ck are you talking about?

You give no quotes, no sources, no idea why you think that all conservatives hate rap and call rappers "black trash".


Got news for you bud, I'm a Christian Conservative Republican, and I grew up loving rap and still appreciate it now.

As posted before, my fave ten albums:


Me Against the World- 2Pac
Don Kuliminati:7 Day Theory- Makevelli
Adrenaline Rush- Twista
Get In Where You Fit In- Too $hort
Stupid Doo Doo Dumb- Mac Dre
E. 1999 Eternal- Bone Thugs 'N Harmony
The Streetz Iz A Mutha- Kurupt
Doggystyle- Snoop Doggy Dogg
Chronic 2001- Dr. Dre
Marshall Mathers LP- Eminem


Not every conservative fits in your little box idea of them, some of us just think that saving whales and trees, and killing babies and old people is bullshit.

Anywayz, the point is that there is a little more to this world, to conservatives and liberals, to politics, and to race relations, than what you seem to be getting from John Stewart on the daily show.

Originally posted by -hh-
Congratu****inglations Thanx?

Originally posted by JacopeX
Thanx? unfortunately...you're welcome

Originally posted by sithsaber408
The f*ck are you talking about?

You give no quotes, no sources, no idea why you think that all conservatives hate rap and call rappers "black trash".


Got news for you bud, I'm a Christian Conservative Republican, and I grew up loving rap and still appreciate it now.

As posted before, my fave ten albums:


Me Against the World- 2Pac
Don Kuliminati:7 Day Theory- Makevelli
Adrenaline Rush- Twista
Get In Where You Fit In- Too $hort
Stupid Doo Doo Dumb- Mac Dre
E. 1999 Eternal- Bone Thugs 'N Harmony
The Streetz Iz A Mutha- Kurupt
Doggystyle- Snoop Doggy Dogg
Chronic 2001- Dr. Dre
Marshall Mathers LP- Eminem


Not every conservative fits in your little box idea of them, some of us just think that saving whales and trees, and killing babies and old people is bullshit.

Anywayz, the point is that there is a little more to this world, to conservatives and liberals, to politics, and to race relations, than what you seem to be getting from John Stewart on the daily show.

Wow. You're so cool. You used the F-word and mentioned some hip rap albums you say you listen to.

But I don't think your a conservative. You're just confused. Either that or you're a hypocrite. Rap is a liberal concept. So what the f*ck are you talking about. Most conservatives are what they are: tight a$$e$

Originally posted by Mugen
Hef, how did you come to that conclusion?

The people in the Bronx were trying to get away from that kind of stuff, right? I guess I didn't explain myself good enough.

There is Rap, and Gangsta Rap(which makes 99% of the Rap Industry nowadays) I don't have problems with the small bit that isn't about being a Pimp and ****ing your Hoes. But sadly, almost all of it is. I have actually heard a song while I was in my Car, that repeatedly said ***** over and over(Pretty loud too, both of us had Windows closed, and I heard it pretty clearly) don't know what it was though. I'm a proud Conservative, and I hate Gangsta Rap, with a Passion, not really because it "Encourages Violence", but because to me, it isn't Music

Originally posted by sithsaber408
The f*ck are you talking about?

You give no quotes, no sources, no idea why you think that all conservatives hate rap and call rappers "black trash".


Got news for you bud, I'm a Christian Conservative Republican, and I grew up loving rap and still appreciate it now.

As posted before, my fave ten albums:


Me Against the World- 2Pac
Don Kuliminati:7 Day Theory- Makevelli
Adrenaline Rush- Twista
Get In Where You Fit In- Too $hort
Stupid Doo Doo Dumb- Mac Dre
E. 1999 Eternal- Bone Thugs 'N Harmony
The Streetz Iz A Mutha- Kurupt
Doggystyle- Snoop Doggy Dogg
Chronic 2001- Dr. Dre
Marshall Mathers LP- Eminem


Not every conservative fits in your little box idea of them, some of us just think that saving whales and trees, and killing babies and old people is bullshit.

Anywayz, the point is that there is a little more to this world, to conservatives and liberals, to politics, and to race relations, than what you seem to be getting from John Stewart on the daily show.

He believes that because the leaders of the party do say those things.

If your a Conservative Christian Republican and like hip hop, which in itself is almost completely against your ideals, then you yourself have a moral f*cking problem.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
There is Rap, and Gangsta Rap(which makes 99% of the Rap Industry nowadays) I don't have problems with the small bit that isn't about being a Pimp and ****ing your Hoes. But sadly, almost all of it is. I have actually heard a song while I was in my Car, that repeatedly said ***** over and over(Pretty loud too, both of us had Windows closed, and I heard it pretty clearly) don't know what it was though. I'm a proud Conservative, and I hate Gangsta Rap, with a Passion, not really because it "Encourages Violence", but because to me, it isn't Music

its the same in every genre, you have to make an effort and look for the quality music. everyone agrees that mainstream rap is shit with maybe a few exceptions, but there is plenty of good indie stuff; its just not layed out in front of you.

Rap in general may be somewhat anti-conservative and conservatives in general may be somewhat anti-rap, but rap is far from being parallel with liberal politics. Rappers don't always express liberal political views:

*Rappers are usually very pro-capitalist.

*Many rappers are against abortion.

*Many rappers are religious.

*Many rappers are anti-gay.

*Ghostface, for example, condones spanking children. Don't have any other examples but my guess is it's not an unpopular view among rappers.

But besides that, political views and taste in music really shouldn't have to be related. I'm not a Christian but if someone makes a song about Jesus and I like the way it sounds, am I going to shun it because it doesn't fit my beliefs? Music is music. You can enjoy it wihtout agreeing with the lyrics.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Wow. You're so cool. You used the F-word and mentioned some hip rap albums you say you listen to.

But I don't think your a conservative. You're just confused. Either that or you're a hypocrite. Rap is a liberal concept. So what the f*ck are you talking about. Most conservatives are what they are: tight a$$e$

Don't need to be cool dude, just tellin you what it is.


And yeah, I'm a conservative.. I'm not confused about anything.

Rap is an expression, an art, and has nothing to do with liberalism.

I don't recall having heard Jay-Z or Rakim say that they support gay marriage or abortions.

I'm from East San Jose, in the Bay Area of Cali.

I grew up where I did, and I am who I am.

I helped found the Four Elements of Hip-Hop club in my high school, holding freestyle battles at our lunch breaks in the quad, putting up free walls for graff, having b-boy competions, and learning how to DJ.

I'm probably more hood than you ever were, and probably more hip-hop too.

Just 'cuz I found God, and believe in traditional values doesn't mean that I can't enjoy my rap music.
Originally posted by Himo
He believes that because the leaders of the party do say those things.

If your a Conservative Christian Republican and like hip hop, which in itself is almost completely against your ideals, then you yourself have a moral f*cking problem.

At least you're on point.

Yeah, some of the old fart conservative leaders have their heads up their asses, but there are lots of young people too (like you and I, I'm 23) who are conservatives, tired of the "do what you want, whatever you want" liberal mentality that allows for abortion but won't put a convicted murderer to death.

That doesn't mean that I don't like rap, which I grew up with and was part of my life in the inner-city, it just means that I have a certain form of politics.

And as for religion going against rap, lots of rappers mention God/Allah, namely Tupac, Kanye West, Bone Thugs 'N Harmony, DMX, etc....

and many others, even Snoop, have said on award shows that they thank God for what they have, and told the audience that they need God in their lives.


You can believe in one and still like the other.

My point still stands.

You both would like to think of a conservative as a white-haired old dick who hates women and minorites (and hip-hop), but the truth is that there are many more young men and women who are just tired of seeing the world around them turn into piss (some like me, had to live in it) and believe in standards and accountability for this country.

Some of us may even become rappers.

Originally posted by -hh-
not true. Many mc's play instruments, and sing on tracks.

like fifty cent

Originally posted by JacopeX
Well at least i said Juelz Santana ((Dipset))

only good artist in dipset are j.r. writer, 40 cal and hell rell

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
There is Rap, and Gangsta Rap(which makes 99% of the Rap Industry nowadays) I don't have problems with the small bit that isn't about being a Pimp and ****ing your Hoes. But sadly, almost all of it is. You couldnt be more wrong, gangsta rap makes up about 99% of what you hear and see on TV and RADIO. not the industry itself, there is a difference, and how do you know almost all rap is about guns and hoes and shit, have you heard every single rap song put out?

Originally posted by Frigid Soul
I totally agree with you and see exactly where you're coming from. However with me it's not so much the lyrics; its the actual structure of the "music" itself. With rap there's no singing, no playing of an instrument, its just some guy talking on a mic. Where's the talent in that??? You might as well listen to a lecture from a professor or a politician's speech.

Also, rhyming doesn't automatically make it music, just like reading a nursery rhyme outloud doesn't equal music.

you know whats really reptitive about you anti-rap rock fans, all your reasonings to support your ignorant claims, sound so alike its ridiculous

All they talk about is guns, and hoes, and money, it isnt music.....all they do is talk, where is the talent, they dont sing or play instruments, it isnt music,

I swear if you've heard one cry you've heard them all.

Mugen on the warpath. 2guns

Originally posted by Mugen
You couldnt be more wrong, gangsta rap makes up about 99% of what you hear and see on TV and RADIO. not the industry itself, there is a difference, and how do you know almost all rap is about guns and hoes and shit, have you heard every single rap song put out?



you know whats really reptitive about you anti-rap rock fans, all your reasonings to support your ignorant claims, sound so alike its ridiculous

All they talk about is guns, and hoes, and money, it isnt music.....all they do is talk, where is the talent, they dont sing or play instruments, it isnt music,

I swear if you've heard one cry you've heard them all.


I knew someone was going to comment about the 99% and take that literally as I was typing it, exaggeration is so hard to use on the Internet.

Want to know why that's what we say? Because it's true, most of rap is about that, you can deny it if you want, we also (usually) admit that there is SOME rap that isnt, mostly from the 90's. I say that it isn't Music, that's my opinion, you can think it is if you wish, but as I said, I actually heard a song that repeated the Word ***** at least 15 times in a row, how you call that music I don't understand (Yes I know it isn't all of Rap, if you choose to say that again).

Any music > Rap
In my Opinion

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
I knew someone was going to comment about the 99% and take that literally as I was typing it, exaggeration is so hard to use on the Internet.

Want to know why that's what we say? Because it's true, most of rap is about that, you can deny it if you want, we also (usually) admit that there is SOME rap that isnt, mostly from the 90's. I say that it isn't Music, that's my opinion, you can think it is if you wish, but as I said, I actually heard a song that repeated the Word ***** at least 15 times in a row, how you call that music I don't understand (Yes I know it isn't all of Rap, if you choose to say that again).

Any music > Rap
In my Opinion

complete generalization, and mostly from the 90's???

and it's called HIP HOP not RAP

"rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live"- KRS-One

what you hear on the radio and see on television is NOT hip hop. it's garbage music spoon fed to us by the media.

Rapper Philosophy?


I find Hip-Hop differant from Rap, I put it into 3 Classes

Hip-Hop(Mellow)
Rap(Sounds like Gangsta Rap, without the crappy Lyrics)
Gangsta(Crap) Rap


The best Rap Song = The Fresh Prince of Bel-air themesong IMO

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Rapper Philosophy?


I find Hip-Hop differant from Rap, I put it into 3 Classes

Hip-Hop(Mellow)
Rap(Sounds like Gangsta Rap, without the crappy Lyrics)
Gangsta(Crap) Rap


The best Rap Song = The Fresh Prince of Bel-air themesong IMO

uhhh thats completley wrong.

Hip Hop = Culture

Hip Hop = 4 Elements

1. Rap (MC'ing)
2. B-Boying (or how the media calls it...breakdancing)
3. Graffiti
4. DJ'ing

fact^

"rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live"- krs-one

and for you to say that the fresh prince intro is the best rap song just shows your ignorance and lack of knowledge in what real hip hop is.

Originally posted by -hh-
complete generalization, and mostly from the 90's???

and it's called HIP HOP not RAP

"rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live"- KRS-One

what you hear on the radio and see on television is NOT hip hop. it's garbage music spoon fed to us by the media.

That's what people don't like, and that's what people associate with rap/hip hop the first time they hear it brought up.

When people listen to rap who don't like it, they're normally hearing it playing from someone elses car, or on the TV, or some other place where they're NOT choosing to listen to it. Rap/Hip Hop is very distinguishable (sp?) from other types of music - you recognize what it is (or even -think- you know what it is) as soon as you hear it.

People don't like rap, because most of the time they hear a few lyrics in the public, hear the rapper/artists tone of voice, and presume they're telling them that they're "the baddest m'f*ckas in da world.' The listeners that didn't choose to hear it automatically feel like it's getting shoved down their throat and in their face, and since it stands out so much from other sounds, they hear it every second until it's gone.

There may be other type of hip hop/rap that isn't known to most people, but when they say they hate rap, they're not talking about that, because they've never heard it before, but because of the previously statements, they presume it'll be something unpleasing.

(I for one, don't like rap, but it's not because I don't consider it music, it's just because it's not my thing.)

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
That's what people don't like, and that's what people associate with rap/hip hop the first time they hear it brought up.

When people listen to rap who don't like it, they're normally hearing it playing from someone elses car, or on the TV, or some other place where they're NOT choosing to listen to it. Rap/Hip Hop is very distinguishable (sp?) from other types of music - you recognize what it is (or even -think- you know what it is) as soon as you hear it.

People don't like rap, because most of the time they hear a few lyrics in the public, hear the rapper/artists tone of voice, and presume they're telling them that they're "the baddest m'f*ckas in da world.' The listeners that didn't choose to hear it automatically feel like it's getting shoved down their throat and in their face, and since it stands out so much from other sounds, they hear it every second until it's gone.

There may be other type of hip hop/rap that isn't known to most people, but when they say they hate rap, they're not talking about that, because they've never heard it before, but because of the previously statements, they presume it'll be something unpleasing.

(I for one, don't like rap, but it's not because I don't consider it music, it's just because it's not my thing.) you dont like HIP HOP i understand, but you base it all on what the media has to offer which once again isn't real HIP HOP

RAP isn't a genre, it's an action.

real hip hop lyrics:

Pharoahe Monch feat Common & Talib Kweli- The Truth


Yo
Truth had me up against the ropes
and semi-concious without no boxing skills
Fear of it makes hair on my neck grow like minoxodil
Watchin the clock is ill when, faced wit the truth
Parallels observing, amateur video tapes of
Twenty-one top notch NYPD cops get ill
Fill they minds not to kill still son, never revealed
True feelings, we speakin on the truth right now in itself is healing
See The Creator, created existence and balance
At right angles, unless it was conceived and stated
So whoever shall stray away from right lives wrong
The deliverance of the word false opposite of truth off course
Sure as my slave name sending
Troy Donald Jamerson paves the path, enabling truth
To stay stable and cling to EARTH!
Sorta similar to the way static electricity sting see
Truth brings light, light refracts off the mirror
Visions of yourself and error could never clearer
The truth is that you ugly, not on the outside
But in the inside on the outside you frontin you lovely
The discovery of these things and all are well-hidden
But when you in denial of self it is forbidden, that's the truth


In due time we will find

*speaking behind vocals*
See it everywhere, gotta recognize it

Let the truth be told from young souls that become old
>From days spent in the jungle, where must one go
To find it, time is real, we can't rewind it
Out of everybody I met, who told the truth? Time did
We find kids speakin cuz it's naturally in us
But the false prophets by tellin us we born sinners
Venders of hate, got me battlin my own mind state
At a divine rate, I ain't in this just to rhyme great
See the truth in the thighs of a stripper, the eyes of my nigga
If it's only one, then why should it differ
So constantly I seek it
Wonderin why I gotta drink a six pack to speak it
Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent
Took the negative and positive, cuz niggas got to live
Said I got to get more than I'm given
Cuz truth'll never be heard in religion
After searchin the world, on the inside what was hidden
It was the truth


Truth, truth, truth, truth, truth, truth
In due time, we will find


Check it, on my neck I still got marks from the nooses
The truth it produces, fear that got niggas on the run like Carl Lewis
The truth is my crew is the smoothest bits of saliva juices like the roots is
More organic than acoustics
Heavenly ? set you free and kill you in the same breath
That shit you gotta get off your chest before your death, unless
The way you speak is lighter than a pamphlet
Cuz the truth give the words away to the planet goddammit
I ran wit what God planted in my heart and I understand it
To be the bring the light to the dark, breathe some life in this art
This must be the truth (why?) cuz we keep marchin on (true)
The truth lay the foundation of what we rockin on (true)
You can't see it if you blind but we will always prevail (true)
Life is like the open sea, the truth is the wind in our sail
And in the end, our names is on the lips of dying men
If ever crushed in the earth, we always rise again
When the words of lying men sound lush like the sound of a violin
The truth is there, it's just the heart you gotta find it in


You will find (7x)

I didn't say I based it off the media, I just said most people do, because it's the first thing they think of.

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
I didn't say I based it off the media, I just said most people do, because it's the first thing they think of. then what do you base hip hop music on?

it's not the first thing they think of, it's the only thing they think of because the media doesn't offer real hip hop for people to listen to.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
I knew someone was going to comment about the 99% and take that literally as I was typing it, exaggeration is so hard to use on the Internet.

Want to know why that's what we say? Because it's true, most of rap is about that, you can deny it if you want, we also (usually) admit that there is SOME rap that isnt, mostly from the 90's. I say that it isn't Music, that's my opinion, you can think it is if you wish, but as I said, I actually heard a song that repeated the Word ***** at least 15 times in a row, how you call that music I don't understand (Yes I know it isn't all of Rap, if you choose to say that again).

Any music > Rap
In my Opinion
dots
whos cares if you were literal or not, its still an ignorant statement, you havent even heard more than half of the rap music thats outs there, i havent even heard a half of it either, im not denying you your opinion but you are sorely wrong. I dont claim to know what real hip-hop is, but i do know SOME rap is not even scratching the surface, or how much rap music is out there that dosent have mainstream subject matter.

look, you dont know what your talking about it as simple as that.

Originally posted by -hh-
RAP isn't a genre, it's an action.

Originally posted by -hh-
then what do you base hip hop music on?

it's not the first thing they think of, it's the only thing they think of because the media doesn't offer real hip hop for people to listen to.

That's exactly what I'm telling you!

The media doesn't provide any instances of real hip hop, so people automatically assume it's all the stuff they hear blaring on whichever media station or output.

I'm not about hating hip hop, I'm about hating ignorance, from whichever side it comes from. If someone says Rap, you know what they're talking about regardless of wether or not it's correct. You're only going to make them feel even more frustrated about the topic when you try to correct them on terminology.

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
That's exactly what I'm telling you!

The media doesn't provide any instances of real hip hop, so people automatically assume it's all the stuff they hear blaring on whichever media station or output.

I'm not about hating hip hop, I'm about hating ignorance, from whichever side it comes from. If someone says Rap, you know what they're talking about regardless of wether or not it's correct. You're only going to make them feel even more frustrated about the topic when you try to correct them on terminology. no u completley misunderstood me. im not disagreeing with you. im just asking you what do you base it on since u dont like hip hop.

Ah, alright.

I have a couple of friends who get in the same scuffle about this stuff, and I've driven around with him a lot listening to his hip hop. I don't know the names of any of them, because I don't care enough to know. It sounds nothing like whats on the radio, and most of the lyrics are rather more poetic and intellegent than a lot of other music, I just don't like the style or the way it's presented.

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Ah, alright.

I have a couple of friends who get in the same scuffle about this stuff, and I've driven around with him a lot listening to his hip hop. I don't know the names of any of them, because I don't care enough to know. It sounds nothing like whats on the radio, and most of the lyrics are rather more poetic and intellegent than a lot of other music, I just don't like the style or the way it's presented. i respect your opinion.

Originally posted by Mugen
dots
whos cares if you were literal or not, its still an ignorant statement, you havent even heard more than half of the rap music thats outs there, i havent even heard a half of it either, im not denying you your opinion but you are sorely wrong. I dont claim to know what real hip-hop is, but i do know SOME rap is not even scratching the surface, or how much rap music is out there that dosent have mainstream subject matter.

look, you dont know what your talking about it as simple as that.





You're right, I havn't heard half of it, but I know for a fact that it's mostly Gangsta crap(ironically thats the popular music) there's probably 1 out of every 100 Rappers that isn't singing about Gangster bull (exaggeration, I hope you get the point, if not, then whatever) The mainstream is what I call crap not the rest

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You're right, I havn't heard half of it, but I know for a fact that it's mostly Gangsta crap(ironically thats the popular music) there's probably 1 out of every 100 Rappers that isn't singing about Gangster bull (exaggeration, I hope you get the point, if not, then whatever) The mainstream is what I call crap not the rest umm mc's nowadays on television and radio aren't even considered gangster...they are club rappers. they rap about clubs, drugs and bitches. i dont consider that gangster.

gangster would be rapping about the hard life, the struggle etc...

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
The best Rap Song = The Fresh Prince of Bel-air themesong IMO

^funniest thing i read all day

Originally posted by -hh-
umm mc's nowadays on television and radio aren't even considered gangster...they are club rappers. they rap about clubs, drugs and bitches. i dont consider that gangster.

gangster would be rapping about the hard life, the struggle etc... which most of them dont live, they're bullshitting just to get money, they're living million dollar lifestyles, and they still wanna be thugs and drug dealers, sounds like alot of ish to me.

Originally posted by Mugen
which most of them dont live, they're bullshitting just to get money, they're living million dollar lifestyles, and they still wanna be thugs and drug dealers, sounds like alot of ish to me. Like 50 Cent. I hate him.

Originally posted by Mugen

you know whats really reptitive about you anti-rap rock fans, all your reasonings to support your ignorant claims, sound so alike its ridiculous

All they talk about is guns, and hoes, and money, it isnt music.....all they do is talk, where is the talent, they dont sing or play instruments, it isnt music,

I swear if you've heard one cry you've heard them all.

I'm not "anti" rap; I'm not out to destroy it. And read my post again, I never said "that's all they talk about" because what they say doesn't concern me. I seriously don't see how it's music. If I talk really fast into a microphone, does that make it music? No.

Originally posted by Frigid Soul
I'm not "anti" rap; I'm not out to destroy it. And read my post again, I never said "that's all they talk about" because what they say doesn't concern me. I seriously don't see how it's music. If I talk really fast into a microphone, does that make it music? No. if you keep talking out of your ass, does that make it true? No.

how many mc's on television and radio even rap fast? the only one that comes to mind is twista or maybe chamillionare...

both i dont care for, but my point is there.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
You're right, I havn't heard half of it, but I know for a fact that it's mostly Gangsta crap(ironically thats the popular music) there's probably 1 out of every 100 Rappers that isn't singing about Gangster bull (exaggeration, I hope you get the point, if not, then whatever) The mainstream is what I call crap not the rest

1 out of 100 rock bands sing about the same shit

Originally posted by Frigid Soul
I'm not "anti" rap; I'm not out to destroy it. And read my post again, I never said "that's all they talk about" because what they say doesn't concern me. I seriously don't see how it's music. If I talk really fast into a microphone, does that make it music? No.
Well, I guess we can consider it music. It's just not the most original, creative or innovative music ever...

Originally posted by sithsaber408


I helped found the Four Elements of Hip-Hop club in my high school, holding freestyle battles at our lunch breaks in the quad, putting up free walls for graff, having b-boy competions, and learning how to DJ.

I'm probably more hood than you ever were, and probably more hip-hop too.

Just 'cuz I found God, and believe in traditional values doesn't mean that I can't enjoy my rap music.


I always find it mad funny when I hear someone say "I'm more hood than you" because they listen to rap alot and do alot of things in the hip hop culture. On top of which you don't know me and what Ive been through.

First of all, I'm a 28 year old man but all i'm doing now is trying to get out the ghetto cause i've had enough of the "hood". And you're here admitting your more "hood" and with pride. Well you keep being hood while i' try to get the f*ck up out the ghetto, coolboy. It sucks here.

Sithsaber, you like Lloyd Banks and modern day Eminem; you're in no position to be telling anyone about hip hop.

You barely like any hip hop as it is. You should be hanging out with the TRL audience, requesting such hits as Ass like That and Poppin' Them Thangs. Or maybe you can cheer your beloved Snoop Dogg as he takes time out from collaborating with Justin Timberlake and The Pussycat Dolls to try and remind us how he's still "Da Boss", and not the all-but-faded man he once was.

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
1 out of 100 rock bands sing about the same shit

Question: Can you back that stat up?

Answer: No.

Conclusion: Don't spout bs statistics.

-AC

Originally posted by who?-kid
Well, I guess we can consider it music. It's just not the most original, creative or innovative music ever...

Well...it's not is it?

As great as hip hop can be, it's far from the most original, creative or innovative genre.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well...it's not is it?

As great as hip hop can be, it's far from the most original, creative or innovative genre.

-AC i honestly dont believe that, but do you AC? explain to me.

cuz i pretty much listen to any genre at this point, but hip hop still stays the one that stands out the most.

Originally posted by -hh-
i honestly dont believe that, but do you AC? explain to me.

cuz i pretty much listen to any genre at this point, but hip hop still stays the one that stands out the most.

You listening to any genre doesn't mean you've listened to enough of it.

I listen to more variants of other genres than you do, by leaps and bounds, and I also have a huge knowledge of hip hop, certainly enough to make a judgement.

There's not a hip hop artist out there that has the innovation or versatility of Mike Patton, System of a Down, Radiohead or say...Mindless Self Indulgence. None of them have the instrumental talent, for one thing. This isn't a knock to hip hop, I love hip hop, but I love it to the degree that it earns by love. I don't say things about it that aren't true. I love hip hop, but it is what it is. There is a limit on rhyming that simply doesn't exist if you're in a band with great musicians.

Instrumental talent means you can do a hell of a lot more with music than if you're just rhyming and ok at instruments. They have a lot more avenue to write and create, rhymers do not.

It standing out to you the most doesn't mean it's the most innovative, it's certainly not the most original.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You listening to any genre doesn't mean you've listened to enough of it.

I listen to more variants of other genres than you do, by leaps and bounds, and I also have a huge knowledge of hip hop, certainly enough to make a judgement.

There's not a hip hop artist out there that has the innovation or versatility of Mike Patton, System of a Down, Radiohead or say...Mindless Self Indulgence. None of them have the instrumental talent, for one thing. This isn't a knock to hip hop, I love hip hop, but I love it to the degree that it earns by love. I don't say things about it that aren't true. I love hip hop, but it is what it is. There is a limit on rhyming that simply doesn't exist if you're in a band with great musicians.

Instrumental talent means you can do a hell of a lot more with music than if you're just rhyming and ok at instruments. They have a lot more avenue to write and create, rhymers do not.

It standing out to you the most doesn't mean it's the most innovative, it's certainly not the most original.

-AC when i said standing out for me, i meant on the creative stand point.

Oh, well it's most definitely creative, especially with linguistics, which I can appreciate.

Again, I don't think it's the most creative genre. There's only so much you can do with words, HH, and you can do a hell of a lot more with a guitar. Much less a band of accomplished musicians and musical minds.

I mean, hip hop...real hip hop may have people who are very smart, very articulate, fine. It may have a myriad of talent ranging from the purely intelligent, to the comedic, to happy mediums. However, music will always take a backseat to the lyricism in that ONE genre, and even when MCs try to bring the music to the forefront, it's never as creative as a band.

The reason being; an MC can't flow over a double time drum solo or a crazy guitar solo. He needs something simple that he or she can rhyme to. It's like a metronome, it's not there to be creative.

Rock vocalists, metal vocalists, they can sing or scream over anything. It doesn't need to rhyme or be in time with a beat. Therefore there are many more combinations.

-AC

I think hip hop is a very original AND innovative genre...

I'm not knocking other genres or saying hip hop is more innovative/creative/whatever than anything else but it is all these things in it's own right.

First of all.. hip hop "instrumentals" if you will don't get their power off lengthy solos or experimentation, or off technical prowess in any kind. Hip hop beats get their power from the power of repetition.. finding one little thing that when repeated/looped has a hypnotic buildup to it that set's the atmosphere for a great song. This isn't a concept that wasn't explored before hip hop.. hell look at Kraftwerk.. but it wasn't explored to the extent that it is now until hip hop.

On top of that.. hip hop is innovative for the rapping alone. It may not seem as musical to you, or as powerful/artistic/whatever but building a genre on the basis of rhyming, not singing is innovation in itself. And rhyming does have a sort of musical element to it I think. Maybe not according to music theory, but if you listen to someone rhyme it does enhance the actual sound of the music doesn't it? Even without knowing what the rapper is saying, if they are rhyming well enough then it'll compliment the beat even nicer.

Hip hop is probably one of the furthest extremes away from traditional european classical music, so i don't see how it isn't original or innovative.

I listen to different genres too. Hell I love jazz, rock and funk in particular, and I consider all of these to be innovative, original, and creative genres. I just see no real reason why hip hop should be excluded from the group.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I think hip hop is a very original AND innovative genre...

Leonard Cohen was rhyming in such a way before any hip hop artist thought of doing so. Let's not even forget that Debbie Harry of Blondie also had a few tracks that were full of what would come to be known as original hip hop flavour. She's even hailed as a hip hop pioneer by the likes of Outkast.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I'm not knocking other genres or saying hip hop is more innovative/creative/whatever than anything else but it is all these things in it's own right.

The argument isn't whether hip hop is creative and innovative or not, it's whether it's the most, and it's not.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
First of all.. hip hop "instrumentals" if you will don't get their power off lengthy solos or experimentation, or off technical prowess in any kind. Hip hop beats get their power from the power of repetition.. finding one little thing that when repeated/looped has a hypnotic buildup to it that set's the atmosphere for a great song. This isn't a concept that wasn't explored before hip hop.. hell look at Kraftwerk.. but it wasn't explored to the extent that it is now until hip hop.

I agree 100%, Afro.

They get their influence, power and effect from other avenues than playing and musicianship. However, that doesn't change the very proveable idea that a band will always have more avenue to be innovative and creative than a hip hop artist.

Dream Theater can do a lot more than Illogic, Can Ox or MF Doom.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
On top of that.. hip hop is innovative for the rapping alone. It may not seem as musical to you, or as powerful/artistic/whatever but building a genre on the basis of rhyming, not singing is innovation in itself. And rhyming does have a sort of musical element to it I think. Maybe not according to music theory, but if you listen to someone rhyme it does enhance the actual sound of the music doesn't it? Even without knowing what the rapper is saying, if they are rhyming well enough then it'll compliment the beat even nicer.

As I said, it was innovative when it started, because there was nothing like it. Nowadays rhyming as a primary vocal style is not innovative, it's well known and a very mainstream style of vocal.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Hip hop is probably one of the furthest extremes away from traditional european classical music, so i don't see how it isn't original or innovative.

It's not innovative anymore is it? If you're saying that there's no other genre when rhyming is primary and at the forefront, no there's not (not a music genre anyway.), I agree. The fact remains that overground or underground, it comes down to rhyming, that's what it comes down to. You might get innovative rhymers, innovative MCs, but BECAUSE hip hop is so focused on lyricism and delivery being it's main punch -- not the music -- it will never have the music world-shifting ability that actual musicians wield.

Bands work with music, with lyricism as an added bonus. Hip hop is the reverse.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I listen to different genres too. Hell I love jazz, rock and funk in particular, and I consider all of these to be innovative, original, and creative genres. I just see no real reason why hip hop should be excluded from the group.

Because no hip hop rhymer has done what Miles Davis did, or Coltrane, or Frank Zappa, or Prince.

Nor do they have the talent.

-AC

I'll admit I don't know who Leonard Cohen is, but by the time Blondie's song came out hip hoppers were already rapping in the underground, it just wasn't a mainstream thing yet.

When who-kid said "I guess it can be considered music, not the most creative or original music ever" I take it as the same as saying "Bush isn't exactly the brightest president ever." Not just that it's literally not the MOST innovative, but that it's not innovative in general. Maybe I was wrong, maybe not. Either way I didn't see anyone really defending it so posted about why I thought it was innovative/original/creative..

Dream Theater can never match the power of say an old school RZA produced hip hop track, if you ask me. I don't care about the avenues they take to make the music, I care about the sound that comes through my speakers and that alone. Music is about emotion to me.

Rhyming itself isn't innovative anymore, but rhyming has changed drastically over the years and people are still innovating rhyming today. Compare anything pre-86 to any Rakim song.. the compare that to Nas or GZA.. then compare that to early Eminem.. then compare that to MF Doom. There is always room for innovation in ANYTHING. There are tons of words in the English dictionary, add that on to newly developed slang words and it becomes clear that rhyming is no exception.

Hip hop may be all about lyricism to you, but to me the lyrics are only as good as they compliment the beat. Look at true classic hip hop songs, and then look at how important the beats actually are. Take Mobb Deep's Survival Of The Fittest for instance. It's not just dope because of the lyrics, or the flow, or the delivery. All these things are dope. But it's REALLY dope because of the depressed, bleek piano melody that sets the perfect tone for the hopeless, street struck rhymes that they spit over it. Without that beat, that song would be nothing IMO. This isn't an isolated example. Apply the same question to any classic song:

Wu Tang Clan- CREAM
Organized Konfusion - Stress
Cannibal Ox - Pigeon
Dr. Dre and Snoop - Nothin But a G Thang
Public Enemy - Fight The Power
Outkast - ATLiens
Ice Cube - When Will They Shoot?
Blackstar - Theives In The Night

All these songs are completely different from one another. Each one a different style of hip hop. Each one a championed classic by many hip hop fans. Each one has a seriously dope beat. Actually.. I can't even THINK of a great hip hop song with a wack beat. The music is very much important. I see how people could confuse this.. because hip hop instrumentals don't sound like anything special on their own. It has a minimalist approach to say the least. But it's very effective if you ask me.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I'll admit I don't know who Leonard Cohen is, but by the time Blondie's song came out hip hoppers were already rapping in the underground, it just wasn't a mainstream thing yet.

Precisely, and it's mainstream hip hop that gave birth to the likes of Wu-Tang Clan etc.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
When who-kid said "I guess it can be considered music, not the most creative or original music ever" I take it as the same as saying "Bush isn't exactly the brightest president ever." Not just that it's literally not the MOST innovative, but that it's not innovative in general. Maybe I was wrong, maybe not. Either way I didn't see anyone really defending it so posted about why I thought it was innovative/original/creative..

Yeah, it is creative, it can be innovative with language at least, but that was never the argument.

He said it's not the most creative, the most innovative or the MOST original. He never said it wasn't creative, innovative or original at all. If you think hip hop is the most innovative, original and creative genre, you have problems.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Dream Theater can never match the power of say an old school RZA produced hip hop track, if you ask me. I don't care about the avenues they take to make the music, I care about the sound that comes through my speakers and that alone. Music is about emotion to me.

That's not being discussed. 'Kid said it's not the MOST creative, original or innovative, so you're arguing that it is creative, original and innovative.

So what? Nobody is deny that it's those things, simply that it's not the most of each, and it's not.

No hip hop artist will be as innovative as Dream Theater because they simply don't have the instrumental musicianship. No hip hop artist will be as innovative as Patton, they simply don't have the broad genre-spanning experience. I'm not sure what point you're attempting to make.

Yes, it's creative and sometimes innovative. So? It's not the most.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Rhyming itself isn't innovative anymore, but rhyming has changed drastically over the years and people are still innovating rhyming today. Compare anything pre-86 to any Rakim song.. the compare that to Nas or GZA.. then compare that to early Eminem.. then compare that to MF Doom. There is always room for innovation in ANYTHING. There are tons of words in the English dictionary, add that on to newly developed slang words and it becomes clear that rhyming is no exception.

Yes, but it will never compare to an entire band of quality musicians tapping into the universe that is music. As in, versatility and innovation, not preference.

Musicians have a lot more to work with, and a vocal MC will never have that.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Hip hop may be all about lyricism to you, but to me the lyrics are only as good as they compliment the beat. Look at true classic hip hop songs, and then look at how important the beats actually are. Take Mobb Deep's Survival Of The Fittest for instance. It's not just dope because of the lyrics, or the flow, or the delivery. All these things are dope. But it's REALLY dope because of the depressed, bleek piano melody that sets the perfect tone for the hopeless, street struck rhymes that they spit over it. Without that beat, that song would be nothing IMO. This isn't an isolated example. Apply the same question to any classic song:

Wu Tang Clan- CREAM
Organized Konfusion - Stress
Cannibal Ox - Pigeon
Dr. Dre and Snoop - Nothin But a G Thang
Public Enemy - Fight The Power
Outkast - ATLiens
Ice Cube - When Will They Shoot?
Blackstar - Theives In The Night

All these songs are completely different from one another. Each one a different style of hip hop. Each one a championed classic by many hip hop fans. Each one has a seriously dope beat. Actually.. I can't even THINK of a great hip hop song with a wack beat. The music is very much important. I see how people could confuse this.. because hip hop instrumentals don't sound like anything special on their own. It has a minimalist approach to say the least. But it's very effective if you ask me.

What is your point? Hip hop beats will never be as innovative as quality musicianship on instruments. Yes, those songs are blinding. Yes, the beats are really good. So what? Nobody is arguing that.

If you believe that a hip hop MC or collective could ever match the innovation or creativity of the likes of Zappa, Prince etc, people who have mastered instruments and the avenues of musical expression (which far outnumber lyrical avenues), then I'd say you've got problems.

Hip hop can have great minimalistic beats, but that's because they compliment the rhyme and the rhyme compliments them. They are minimalistic because they simply cannot get further.

Danny Carey of Tool has a drum part played to a fibonacci time sequence. No MC could rhyme to that time successfully. That's why they have to compliment each other.

Two minimalist approaches combining to create a maximum effect.

The argument wasn't anything to do with whether it can be good, it was whether hip hop is the most innovative, original or creative genre. It's not. That's not to say it's NOT innovative, original or creative.

-AC

Like I said, the way who-kid worded it it DID sound as if he was saying it's not innovative, original or creative.

If i were to say "Yeah Bush is a president alright. He's not exactly the brightest of all time though, is he?" I wouldn't just be saying that there were presidents smarter than Bush. I'd basically be calling him a dumbass in a more elaborate way.

The fact that he preceeded the comment with "Well I GUESS we can call it music." didn't help either.

I didn't have a problem with it, I understood it perfectly.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Sithsaber, you like Lloyd Banks and modern day Eminem; you're in no position to be telling anyone about hip hop.


What's wrong with Banks? I like his music too, but no one here ever had any problems with it before, unless from what I know.

What's right with Banks?

-AC

His mixtapes

G-G-G-G-G-G-G-Unit

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I always find it mad funny when I hear someone say "I'm more hood than you" because they listen to rap alot and do alot of things in the hip hop culture. On top of which you don't know me and what Ive been through.

First of all, I'm a 28 year old man but all i'm doing now is trying to get out the ghetto cause i've had enough of the "hood". And you're here admitting your more "hood" and with pride. Well you keep being hood while i' try to get the f*ck up out the ghetto, coolboy. It sucks here.

Good for you Fist, I acknowledge you.

If you'd read my profile, you'd see that at 23, I don't live in East San Jose anymore, and am happily married and working a good job.

Guess I am that cool.

As far as saying that I was more hood than you, no it doesn't come from listening to rap or freestyling, recording a few tracks with friends, b-boying, graffiti, or DJing that I did, (still do, in the case of freestyle and graff) but from living in East Side San Jose, in the worst school in my district with a 50% dropout rate for the senior class, the fact that at 17 I was hanging with older guys, 25 and 26 on parole from Pelican Bay and San Quentin, living in their houses where they cooked crystal meth, stole guns and cars, got in fights, and lived a "hood" lifestyle.

True, I don't know where you've been and what you've done, but I know who I am, and I'm probably more hood than you ever were.

Ehh, never mind.

It's beside the point, but as an elder of mine, you should have more wisdom and knowledge, and know that the word "conservative" isn't applicable only to middle-aged white men who you think must hate minorities, women, and rap music.

Nothing screams "hood" like a cartoony Darth Vader sig.

-AC

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Good for you Fist, I acknowledge you.

If you'd read my profile, you'd see that at 23, I don't live in East San Jose anymore, and am happily married and working a good job.

Guess I am that cool.

As far as saying that I was more hood than you, no it doesn't come from listening to rap or freestyling, recording a few tracks with friends, b-boying, graffiti, or DJing that I did, (still do, in the case of freestyle and graff) but from living in East Side San Jose, in the worst school in my district with a 50% dropout rate for the senior class, the fact that at 17 I was hanging with older guys, 25 and 26 on parole from Pelican Bay and San Quentin, living in their houses where they cooked crystal meth, stole guns and cars, got in fights, and lived a "hood" lifestyle.

Which included hip-hop.

Just because I'm a conservative doesn't change any of that.

Hanging out with people recently out of prison doesn't make you more "hood". It makes you slightly stupid.

I'm not even gonna try to justify myself to you two, I have no need to.

I know who I was and what I did.

And so what if I have a Darth Vader sig?

I don't live where I used to, more importantly how I used to, and have been a Christian for several years now.

The point was that him saying all conservatives are racist old bastards who hate rap is wrong:

Some of us are hip-hop fans, hip-hop participants even, and some have come from shitty ghetto lives.

I won't wast my time on you guys, since you seem to want to stick to definitions of whats "conservative" or "hood" to you, that have nothing to do with the lives that people are really living, where a conservative can be a hip-hop fan, and "hood" can be more than what you've seen in Friday.

Orale Pues, pinche Jotos!

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'm not even gonna try to justify myself to you two, I have no need to.

I know who I was and what I did.

And so what if I have a Darth Vader sig?

I don't live where I used to, more importantly how I used to, and have been a Christian for several years now.

The point was that him saying all conservatives are racist old bastards who hate rap is wrong:

Some of us are hip-hop fans, hip-hop participants even, and some have come from shitty ghetto lives.

I won't wast my time on you guys, since you seem to want to stick to definitions of whats "conservative" or "hood" to you, that have nothing to do with the lives that people are really living, where a conservative can be a hip-hop fan, and "hood" can be more than what you've seen in Friday.

Orale Pues, pinche Jotos!

Shut up. Don't think your the only who who's grew up in the slums. Because you automatically profiled everyone who opposes you as living in suburbia, your a hypocrite.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
What's the deal with conservatives and rap.

They call rappers black trash yet they market their own company products using some type of Hip-Hop influence to promote their items.

Or they talk about the harsh messages in rap. What about the harsh messages in movies that are not only audible but visual as well. Crazy violence. And it last 1 and a half hours of it. rather than the 4 min in song that seems to get more attention. On top of which, a whole rap album isn't even as long as a movie. (i think.)

But like movies, I listen to rap for the entertainment it offers.

But I'd like to know what's your problem with it (If you hate rap music)

Some of it's okay, some of it's noise. I can't "hear" rap.

Originally posted by Himo
Shut up. Don't think your the only who who's grew up in the slums. Because you automatically profiled everyone who opposes you as living in suburbia, your a hypocrite.

you shut up.

I profiled nobody. In no place, ANYWHERE in my post.

The word "suburbia" isn't listed once.

I said you're from idiot-ville for thinking that all conservatives hate rap, or that I wasn't from the hood (which you now seem to retract) because I hung around with the veteranos who were getting out of the pen.

Lookin pretty stupid right about now, bud.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
you shut up.

I profiled nobody. In no place, ANYWHERE in my post.

The word "suburbia" isn't listed once.

I said your from idiot-ville for thinking that all conservatives hate rap, or that I wasn't from the hood (which you now seem to retract) because I hung around with the veteranos who were getting out of the pen.

Lookin pretty stupid right about now, bud.

He might look pretty stupid, but you used "your" instead of "you're", so....lets call it a draw.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
you shut up.

I profiled nobody. In no place, ANYWHERE in my post.

The word "suburbia" isn't listed once.

I said you're from idiot-ville for thinking that all conservatives hate rap, or that I wasn't from the hood (which you now seem to retract) because I hung around with the veteranos who were getting out of the pen.

Lookin pretty stupid right about now, bud.

No, you shut up.

By automatically believing your more hood than everyone else.

Point?

Never said all. Again, your profiling. Never said you weren't from the hood.

Not really.

OK.

You win.

All conservatives hate rap.

I'm a hypocrite who thinks everbody who opposes me is from suburbia.

Belief in God and hip-hop always have and will be 2 seperate things.

All rappers are pro-gay, pro-abortion liberals.

Chingy is the shit.

Wait...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
OK.

You win.

All conservatives hate rap.

I'm a hypocrite who thinks everbody who opposes me is from suburbia.

Belief in God and hip-hop always have and will be 2 seperate things.

All rappers are pro-gay, pro-abortion liberals.

Chingy is the shit.

Wait...



OK

OK

No

No

No

Don't.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Good for you Fist, I acknowledge you.

If you'd read my profile, you'd see that at 23, I don't live in East San Jose anymore, and am happily married and working a good job.

Guess I am that cool.

As far as saying that I was more hood than you, no it doesn't come from listening to rap or freestyling, recording a few tracks with friends, b-boying, graffiti, or DJing that I did, (still do, in the case of freestyle and graff) but from living in East Side San Jose, in the worst school in my district with a 50% dropout rate for the senior class, the fact that at 17 I was hanging with older guys, 25 and 26 on parole from Pelican Bay and San Quentin, living in their houses where they cooked crystal meth, stole guns and cars, got in fights, and lived a "hood" lifestyle.

True, I don't know where you've been and what you've done, but I know who I am, and I'm probably more hood than you ever were.

Ehh, never mind.

It's beside the point, but as an elder of mine, you should have more wisdom and knowledge, and know that the word "conservative" isn't applicable only to middle-aged white men who you think must hate minorities, women, and rap music.

wickedph

i'm not that big on rap, but i'll listen to Eminem's funnier stuff before i listen to another Good Charlotte/Dashboard Confessionals song

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nothing screams "hood" like a cartoony Darth Vader sig.

-AC best diss of 06' pray

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Good for you Fist, I acknowledge you.

If you'd read my profile, you'd see that at 23, I don't live in East San Jose anymore, and am happily married and working a good job.

Guess I am that cool.

As far as saying that I was more hood than you, no it doesn't come from listening to rap or freestyling, recording a few tracks with friends, b-boying, graffiti, or DJing that I did, (still do, in the case of freestyle and graff) but from living in East Side San Jose, in the worst school in my district with a 50% dropout rate for the senior class, the fact that at 17 I was hanging with older guys, 25 and 26 on parole from Pelican Bay and San Quentin, living in their houses where they cooked crystal meth, stole guns and cars, got in fights, and lived a "hood" lifestyle.

True, I don't know where you've been and what you've done, but I know who I am, and I'm probably more hood than you ever were.



You know what? I don't think you were ever hood, to be honest with you. Know why? Because "hoodlums" would never say that. I can understand saying your "hood" or being "gangsta" but usually telling someone else that you more hood than someone else isn't hood. Not around my way at least. It's catty. In the ghetto, if you're "more hood" than the next person, you just are and show it by actions. You don't say it.

Only a "fake hood" would say they're more hood and there's a difference. People think being around people who've lived a so-called "hood" lifestyle is the same thing with being an actual hood yourself, it's not the same thing and I think that's where you've got it twisted. You (probably) were around it while on the sidelines. Like a fan.

But you're not hood. Me. I'm not gonna sit back and tell you what I've been through because it's behind me and it's just not me to talk about how hard I am or how hood I am cause i think it's corney to do so. But i'll tell you that, to me, you've really seen nothing if that was your experience. That's just basic standard sh*t that goes on from being in the streets. So get it right before you get it wrong the next time. Vaderboy.

I like Robin Hood....he was more hood than all of you together...

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
People think being around people who've lived a so-called "hood" lifestyle is the same thing with being an actual hood yourself, it's not the same thing

That's right, homes. But I don't think people from the burbs understand the difference, ey.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I like Robin Hood....he was more hood than all of you together... another great diss pray

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
You know what? I don't think you were ever hood, to be honest with you. Know why? Because "hoodlums" would never say that. I can understand saying your "hood" or being "gangsta" but usually telling someone else that you more hood than someone else isn't hood. Not around my way at least. It's catty. In the ghetto, if you're "more hood" than the next person, you just are and show it by actions. You don't say it.

Only a "fake hood" would say they're more hood and there's a difference. People think being around people who've lived a so-called "hood" lifestyle is the same thing with being an actual hood yourself, it's not the same thing and I think that's where you've got it twisted. You (probably) were around it while on the sidelines. Like a fan.

But you're not hood. Me. I'm not gonna sit back and tell you what I've been through because it's behind me and it's just not me to talk about how hard I am or how hood I am cause i think it's corney to do so. But i'll tell you that, to me, you've really seen nothing if that was your experience. That's just basic standard sh*t that goes on from being in the streets. So get it right before you get it wrong the next time. Vaderboy.

All right, I'm going to put an end to this right now.


The point that I was trying to make (originally) was that its stupid to say that all conservatives hate hip-hop.

Mainly, because I (along with a few other people that I know) am a conservative who likes hip-hop.


I suppose I should have just left it at that.



I was having a bad day, and reading that shit pissed me off.


Going into my backround probably wasn't necessary, but I wanted you to know that I wasn't some mid-west whiteboy who voted for Bush and hides 50 cent albums under my pillow. Both liberals and conservatives can be many different types of people, whether you see that or not.

But, I really did grow up in east side San Jose. I really did live in the hood. I wasn't a "fan" or a "spectator" when I was getting jumped, when I sold guns and dope, or when I tell you that I've been in the boy's ranch, juvie, a boot camp, and county jail (everthing short of prison, really). It was me in there eating the shitty food and wearing the plastic orange sandals in the shower, ok.

Now, I'm not gonna be stupid here and play "internet gangsta" and start naming off streets or what crews I was in, or which ones I was cool with, or which ones I beefed with, but believe me that I have no reason to lie to you.

I only mentioned it because after my first post, I got a bunch crap from you and other people in here:

"You aren't from no hood"- complete bullshit, since you don't know me from Adam, you can't say that.

"You only listen to Lloyd Banks and modern Eminem"- but you skip where I posted listening to Bone Thugs, Mac Dre, Too short, Andre Nickatina, X-raided, Brotha Lynch, and many other underground/ less mainstream artists. They all happen to be gangsta rap, mostly west coast, but that's my style. I've posted fave lyrics from Mos Def and Pharoe Monch before (in other threads) but now that I'm a conservative you forgot those?

"You can't be a real conservative and like rap"- right, cuz as somebody else posted: rappers are all about gay rights and abortions.

"You can't be a Christian and like rap"- already addressed, but many rappers, from Tupac, to Bone Thugs, to Kanye West, to Rakim, to Nas, to DMX, to even Snoop mention belief in God/allah, and say so not just in records, but also in acceptance speeches, etc....



So you'll have to forgive my temper, but it seems that when you take the stuff that I say, and compare with what you and a few others were saying...... I'm not the one who's full of shit.


Oh, and as for "vaderboy"....


That's funny coming from the guy in the StarWars forums who makes threads like: "The End of the Jedi Order & the Fall of The Republic is Mace Windu's Fault!" or "What went on?Was Sidious trying to kill Vader with Force lighting at the end of ROTJ?", and " Who's more of a badass: Vader or Palpatine?".


Idiot.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
All right, I'm going to put an end to this right now.


The point that I was trying to make (originally) was that its stupid to say that all conservatives hate hip-hop.

Mainly, because I (along with a few other people that I know) am a conservative who likes hip-hop.


I suppose I should have just left it at that.



I was having a bad day, and reading that shit pissed me off.


Going into my backround probably wasn't necessary, but I wanted you to know that I wasn't some mid-west whiteboy who voted for Bush and hides 50 cent albums under my pillow. Both liberals and conservatives can be many different types of people, whether you see that or not.

But, I really did grow up in east side San Jose. I really did live in the hood. I wasn't a "fan" or a "spectator" when I was getting jumped, when I sold guns and dope, or when I tell you that I've been in the boy's ranch, juvie, a boot camp, and county jail (everthing short of prison, really). It was me in there eating the shitty food and wearing the plastic orange sandals in the shower, ok.

Now, I'm not gonna be stupid here and play "internet gangsta" and start naming off streets or what crews I was in, or which ones I was cool with, or which ones I beefed with, but believe me that I have no reason to lie to you.

I only mentioned it because after my first post, I got a bunch crap from you and other people in here:

"You aren't from no hood"- complete bullshit, since you don't know me from Adam, you can't say that.

"You only listen to Lloyd Banks and modern Eminem"- but you skip where I posted listening to Bone Thugs, Mac Dre, Too short, Andre Nickatina, X-raided, Brotha Lynch, and many other underground/ less mainstream artists. They all happen to be gangsta rap, mostly west coast, but that's my style. I've posted fave lyrics from Mos Def and Pharoe Monch before (in other threads) but now that I'm a conservative you forgot those?

"You can't be a real conservative and like rap"- right, cuz as somebody else posted: rappers are all about gay rights and abortions.

"You can't be a Christian and like rap"- already addressed, but many rappers, from Tupac, to Bone Thugs, to Kanye West, to Rakim, to Nas, to DMX, to even Snoop mention belief in God/allah, and say so not just in records, but also in acceptance speeches, etc....



So you'll have to forgive my temper, but it seems that when you take the stuff that I say, and compare with what you and a few others were saying...... I'm not the one who's full of shit.


Oh, and as for "vaderboy"....


That's funny coming from the guy in the StarWars forums who makes threads like: "The End of the Jedi Order & the Fall of The Republic is Mace Windu's Fault!" or "What went on?Was Sidious trying to kill Vader with Force lighting at the end of ROTJ?", and " Who's more of a badass: Vader or Palpatine?".


Idiot. HA HA. You were a drug dealer. Let me ask you....is there anal rape in juvie? What did you go there for?

u mad?

I have no problem with rap "if u dont like then then dont listen" thats how simple it is

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
What's the deal with conservatives and rap.

They call rappers black trash yet they market their own company products using some type of Hip-Hop influence to promote their items.

Or they talk about the harsh messages in rap. What about the harsh messages in movies that are not only audible but visual as well. Crazy violence. And it last 1 and a half hours of it. rather than the 4 min in song that seems to get more attention. On top of which, a whole rap album isn't even as long as a movie. (i think.)

But like movies, I listen to rap for the entertainment it offers.

But I'd like to know what's your problem with it (If you hate rap music)


Rap is just noise, not real music. Real Rock takes talent and is actually real music, but there's nothing talented about rap.

Originally posted by Nogoodnamesleft
Rap is just noise, not real music. Real Rock takes talent and is actually real music, but there's nothing talented about rap.

Originally posted by Nogoodnamesleft
Rap is just noise, not real music. Real Rock takes talent and is actually real music, but there's nothing talented about rap.

I'll take Cannibal Ox over Fall Out Boy boy any day. They actually play instruments, but they do so poorly and make shit music.

-AC

Originally posted by sithsaber408
But, I really did grow up in east side San Jose. I really did live in the hood. I wasn't a "fan" or a "spectator" when I was getting jumped, when I sold guns and dope, or when I tell you that I've been in the boy's ranch, juvie, a boot camp, and county jail (everthing short of prison, really). It was me in there eating the shitty food and wearing the plastic orange sandals in the shower, ok.

Now, I'm not gonna be stupid here and play "internet gangsta" and start naming off streets or what crews I was in, or which ones I was cool with, or which ones I beefed with, but believe me that I have no reason to lie to you.

star wars all day everyday wickedph

Originally posted by Nogoodnamesleft
Rap is just noise, not real music. Real Rock takes talent and is actually real music, but there's nothing talented about rap.

It would be fun to watch you fail miserably trying to keep a flow as good as Gift of Gab while spitting sick verse after verse.

Check that, if hip hop is not talented, then spit a verse right here since you think people like Monch and Illogic are not talented.

Here's Illogic's "Hate in a Puddle"


I hate when it rains, cause in puddles I encounter this guy
Unable to give a rebuttal but swift as the pain flood his eyes
wonderin why he's a gift with no purpose
A priceless one-of-a-kind piece that's worthless
Grounded with no surface
And when he shows one, it's of sod
Cause inside he fights feelings that he was mistake by God
I see his confusion and self-deception
Questions of relevance and intelligence
He holds an illusion of self-acceptance
that he shows to those outside lookin in
He's outside lookin in to his own life; lookin for strength
to carry on as a pawn in this chess game of existance
In his mind he wants to go on to the dawn
and leave the stress that came with existance
Hopin in death he'll find life
Cause as he lives, he roams the dark, tryin to find light
He's made his heart so hard, he doesn't even cry anymore
Cause he's confronted sorrow frequently
His heart's been broken frequently
It's like he's lost some part of him and just haven't found it yet
So in his search, he's left with nothin but questions and regret
All he wants to know is how one day, he's content
and the next day he's cryin
cause his life isn't what he thought life meant
He just wants to be happy, with his love and all
But too often I get messages through telepathic calls
He's askin me through a puddle what more must he endure to continue
But for some reason he knows he most endure to continue


When I walk past puddles, my reflection calls beggin me
to answer his questions about life and his perceptions
and tell him why I hate him so much
And you wonder why I hate him so much?
Now when I walk past puddles, my reflection calls beggin me
to answer his questions about life, and his perceptions
and tell him why I hate him so much
Damn, I wonder why I hate him so much


Why did I hate him so much? I wondered, pondered on the question
What in my mind caused me to despise my reflection?
I didn't know I just knew when I saw him, how I felt
and hated the fact that he had to play with the cards that he was dealt
He's come in contact with some ill things that can't be explained
Life's extracted his energy to where the pain can't be contained
So to me he comes, sheddin tears like skin
Intimate with some, only the ones he calls friends


Click to learn more...
CLICK ABOVE TO VISIT OUR SPONSORS

If he even exists, he only exists in pain
It's like his life is a myth
and he's been blessed with the gift of shame, I mean
From birth to love he's been betrayed
He's an unknown in how to cope with that pain and dissapointment
he's come to know as he's grown
He feels he stands alone in this world of puddle images
And he awaits the time for when, time finishes
He tries to elevate thought, but he's still chillin in the basement
Awaitin a rebirth of his soul as it fears it's spiritual placement




God I pray you can give me a purpose or help me find it
Cause on this narrow path of self-damnation, I can't find it
Is it somethin I need to know, some way I need to grow
to get out of this rut, God give me some self-trust
Love is somethin I'm lookin for but I've found it, or have I?
I wanna live but can I, or do I have to die to?
I try to, have life but my life seems kinda worthless
as I'm starin at this puddle
God I pray that you can give me a purpose or help me find it
Cause on this narrow path of self-damnation, I can't find it
Is it somethin I need to know, some way I need to grow
to get out of this rut, God please give me some self-trust
Love is somethin I'm lookin for - thought I found it, or have I?
I wanna live but can I, or do I have to die to?
I try to, have life but my life seems kinda worthless
as I'm starin in this puddle



{*music changes*}


I sit alone in dismal silence
Peering into the eyes of my reflection
Wondering if his thoughts are adjacent to my own
What visions of eerie savagery
are passing if purity lurks in the mind of he who I mirror?
Lookin at him I am disgusted
He lacks beauty in all external areas
and internally he seems so confused
Perplexed with this conundrum of life
He proceeds to function or cope, lookin at it realistically
Esteem he lacks, in all areas of existance
Reason unknown
What is the cause of the lack of this self-acceptance?
I mean it seems like he needs constant assurance
Some type of ritual proof that he's even worth the oxygen he breathes
A, light that shines upon him
Is his living in vein? Does he have a purpose?
Answer - eternally unknown


Alright, Nogoodnamesleft, your turn. Write something better than this 'non-talent'.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Or maybe you can cheer your beloved Snoop Dogg as he takes time out from collaborating with Justin Timberlake and The Pussycat Dolls to try and remind us how he's still "Da Boss", and not the all-but-faded man he once was.

I agree with you, ey. 10 years ago he was doing collabos with the likes of Tupac, now he's doing songs with those bubblegum pop names you just mentioned. That's just appalling as well as an insult to West Coast, que no?

Originally posted by sithsaber408


Now, I'm not gonna be stupid here and play "internet gangsta" and start naming off streets or what crews I was in, or which ones I was cool with, or which ones I beefed with, but believe me that I have no reason to lie to you.



Oh, and as for "vaderboy"....


That's funny coming from the guy in the StarWars forums who makes threads like: "The End of the Jedi Order & the Fall of The Republic is Mace Windu's Fault!" or "What went on?Was Sidious trying to kill Vader with Force lighting at the end of ROTJ?", and " Who's more of a badass: Vader or Palpatine?".


Idiot.

I And I have every reason not to care about what you went through but for the Star Wars thing so...? I called you Vaderboy because you got a kiddy looking Darth Vader avatar and you act like you the hardest in here. And yea I do like Star Wars. Since I was kid. So.? And I still like it, your point? he story's ill. Darth Vader's ill too, but not your Vader.

Originally posted by ~Flamboyant~
HA HA. You were a drug dealer. Let me ask you....is there anal rape in juvie? What did you go there for?

GTA and felony possesion of stolen property.


yes, but not too often.

In santa clara county juvie, you are with one cellie.

So unless you piss him off, or if you're a rival or a snitch, or something and somebody tells him too, your a-sshole's not in too much danger.




And Fist, if you were such a SW fan than you would know that my "cartoony" vader avi and sig are taken from Ralph Mcquarrie's original storyboard artwork for the first film. The full drawings are far leaner and scarrier than what was in the films.

I never said that I was the "hardest" in here, just that I'm a conservative that loves hip-hop, and not a "fake" hip-hop fan or a "from the hood wannabe".

i dont mind rap

i dont like the newer stuff thats on the radio beacuse its all about the same things

old school raps good though

i also like the wu tang clan

Originally posted by souvinir


i also like the wu tang clan thumbup and the Wu loves you back

i love rap

I dont like rap simply because its not my kind of music, I dont bash people who like it.

Originally posted by Arctic
I dont like rap simply because its not my kind of music, I dont bash people who like it.

I like that.
A lot of rap today SUCKS. Actually, I shouldnt say that. A lot of pop today SUCKS. Underground music is still not bad, and there're some real mcs out there, such as Lupe (please don't front, he's a good lyracist) and the man Nas.
Rap is misrepresented by the bowwows and Puffys in many ways. One, people who believe that there's no skill have a point.
Actually rapping isnt that hard. the real rapping thing is two things: Good writing and a nice standup show.
Guys like Nas, Lupe and even Kanye west have sick writing, which they do themselves. Nas is next level because what he says is deep and all those guys have music other than the easy buck (thats drugs, woman, cars, money, bling).
Most bigtime rappers buy g.writers to put togethor a sloppy club banger, then buy a couple hot beats, ride radio and club play, then disappear. That's the rap most people hate so much. I hate it too. With a passion.
Listen to old rap, for one thing, and listen to stuff not found in a club or on the radio. Old Talib Kweli, for example. Dude has a pretty pop sound sometimes, so he's a good way to enter the genre.
And btw, rapper's musicians do get props. Producers, for instance. And ts not that hard to look in the album sleeve for the singers or the musicians, then to google them.
Please dont hate on rap just because the radio SUCKS.

Yeah the radio isnt that good. I mean they have some stuff I like on it like Nickelback, because their mainstream and they play some of their ballads. (I like nickelback, so shoot me.) But the rap and hip-hop that come on are really bad.

crazy

I think there was a rapper named Tone Loke (thats what it sounds like I dont know how to spell it) that I kind of liked, even though I'm not a rap/hip-hop person. He was pretty good.

dunno Loke (maybe I do, just not the name... gonna go look that up)
But yea, sometimes a gem leaks onto the radio, but generaly, its all Chingy bs. You pretty much have to dig for real artists.
All the negativity kills me. I don't really listen to rock much, but I know that there is more diversity evident (underground, rap is really diverse). The garbage the bigup in the media is all the same, and it all is negative. Never talks about nothing. Look back at oldschool stuff especially, and you'll get it.

Oldschool stuff was cool. M.C. Hammer.

Originally posted by Arctic
Oldschool stuff was cool. M.C. Hammer.

Do you listen to rap?
There's much better stuff than Hammer. Check out Run D.M.C, for example. Classic.