Wonderman vs. Colossus

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JOE NUNEZ
who wins?

badabing
Hmm, I'll say Wonderman due to his flight. But iIf he slugs it out with Colossus he'll lose.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by badabing
Hmm, I'll say Wonderman due to his flight. But iIf he slugs it out with Colossus he'll lose. He'll still win if he slugs it out. Wonder Man is just above Colossus in every category.

And on that note...

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6366/wondernoogiepf1.jpg

OK, that's not the real Colossus, but it's a dupe that supposedly equal to him

Grimm22
Honestly, I cant see Pitor winning here no

Whittdawg92
me either sad

rotiart
It was stated for a time that wonderman was the strongest marvel character out there....

hence the wonderman beating of colossus.

I wouldn't know current standing though.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
He'll still win if he slugs it out. Wonder Man is just above Colossus in every category.

And on that note...

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6366/wondernoogiepf1.jpg

OK, that's not the real Colossus, but it's a dupe that supposedly equal to him Is that scan from Wonderman #13?

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Is that scan from Wonderman #13? I'm pretty sure it is.

all4carnage
wonder man beats him then takes him up to the sky and drops him....he...he...he

batdude123
Originally posted by rotiart
It was stated for a time that wonderman was the strongest marvel character out there....

hence the wonderman beating of colossus.

I wouldn't know current standing though.

Since when? confused I don't remember that at all. Thor and Hercules of that time were pulling off rediculous feats that outshined WM by quite a bit.

jollyjim311
Originally posted by all4carnage
wonder man beats him then takes him up to the sky and drops him....he...he...he

Actually falling won't do much to Colossus, he has fallen and reached what can be assumed to be terminal velocity and was fine...

Lucid Lui
i don't think Simon's ever been called the strongest in the MU. He's always been compared to Thor, in a almost-as-good-but-not-quite-there sense. He's still top tier strength wise. Just under the Thor, Hulk, Herc class.

More than enough to take Colossus though.

Accel
Heck, "I'm weaker than Thor!" was practically his battle cry.

Psyquis52
Still, Wonderman is more versatile. I'd give it to him.

JOE NUNEZ
Whos a higher class 100, between the two?

Lucid Lui
Wonder Man.

Grimm22
Colossus is low 100, along with characters like Thing and She-Hulk

Wonderman is in the high 100 tons along with Savage Hulk, Hercules, Thor...ect.

endrict
wonderman 10/10

endrict
wonderman10/10 to the death

wonderman in a fight 8/10

gotta remember that fighting to the death and normal fighting are different( punisher vs wolverine, frank can and has beaten logan in a fight but to the death there is nothing frank can to. logan will kill him with ease).colossus can win some fights but most of them are won by wonderman

Priest
Originally posted by rotiart
It was stated for a time that wonderman was the strongest marvel character out there....

hence the wonderman beating of colossus.

I wouldn't know current standing though.
WM debut was in the avengers, and Wonderman did mention that Thor is stronger than him.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by badabing
Hmm, I'll say Wonderman due to his flight. But if he slugs it out with Colossus he'll lose.

Agreed.

Colossus's durability gives him the edge here in a slugfest. And since his strength is close to WM's, it wouldn't be long until Colossus came out the victor.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by Priest
WM debut was in the avengers, and Wonderman did mention that Thor is stronger than him. Actually, in his first appearance Wonder Man's fist was said to be equal to Thor's hammer. Since then it's made it's way to next-best-thing though.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Agreed.

Colossus's durability gives him the edge here in a slugfest. And since his strength is close to WM's, it wouldn't be long until Colossus came out the victor. IMO their durability is about the same. Wonder Man has the advantage everywhere else.

Wonder Man has a good record against the likes of Hulk, Thor, Abomination, Atlas, Namor, Hyperion, Ultron etc. Plus he's been trained in combat by Captain America.

Even in a slugfest, Colossus is outmatched.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Actually, in his first appearance Wonder Man's fist was said to be equal to Thor's hammer. Since then it's made it's way to next-best-thing though.

IMO their durability is about the same. Wonder Man has the advantage everywhere else.

Wonder Man has a good record against the likes of Hulk, Thor, Abomination, Atlas, Namor, Hyperion, Ultron etc. Plus he's been trained in combat by Captain America.

Even in a slugfest, Colossus is outmatched.

I don't agree. Don't get me wrong, Wonder Man is also extremely durable. But he's able to tangle with these other powerhouses the way he does because of his other superhuman abilities.

In my opinion, Colossus's duarability>>>Wonder Man's. And that's not an insult to WM at all, seeing as Colossus is one of the most durable characters in comics. That, and Colossus has also been trained in combat by Cyclops, Wolverine, and Nightcrawler. And probably some others as well.

I still stand by my previous statement. Wonder Man wins, but if he decides to make it a slugfest, I see Colossus prevailing.

badabing
Originally posted by badabing
Hmm, I'll say Wonderman due to his flight. But if he slugs it out with Colossus he'll lose. Originally posted by Metalmanx
I don't agree. Don't get me wrong, Wonder Man is also extremely durable. But he's able to tangle with these other powerhouses the way he does because of his other superhuman abilities.

In my opinion, Colossus's duarability>>>Wonder Man's. And that's not an insult to WM at all, seeing as Colossus is one of the most durable characters in comics. That, and Colossus has also been trained in combat by Cyclops, Wolverine, and Nightcrawler. And probably some others as well.

I still stand by my previous statement. Wonder Man wins, but if he decides to make it a slugfest, I see Colossus prevailing.
cool

batdude123
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Agreed.

Colossus's durability gives him the edge here in a slugfest. And since his strength is close to WM's, it wouldn't be long until Colossus came out the victor.

Please, I like ya, but don't be a fanboy. Wonder Man is everything Colossus is, but better, and then some. Wonder Man 10/10.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I don't agree. Don't get me wrong, Wonder Man is also extremely durable. But he's able to tangle with these other powerhouses the way he does because of his other superhuman abilities. What other abilities would these be? He beat Abomination, in a slugfest. He beat Ultron, in a slugfest. He more than held his own against Hulk, in a slugfest. He overpowered Thor, in a slugfest. He ripped the head off of his own dupe, in a slugfest. Generally all his fights are slugfests.

Who has Colossus beat, or held his own against, in slugfests, that makes you think he can take Wonder Man aswell?

Ultraman Baltan
WM wins. He was able punch it out with Thor and Ironman.

Validus
Originally posted by batdude123
Please, I like ya, but don't be a fanboy. Wonder Man is everything Colossus is, but better, and then some. Wonder Man 10/10.
Co-sign and Wonder Man is more than a flying brick. He's probably about as powerful as it gets before stepping into the big leagues.

DickBlazer
these days, colossus takes him.

JOE NUNEZ
Nice sig DickBlazer, im a Chuck the Iceman Ladel fan myself..

Horrificus
The old Marvel Universe handbooks used to give the strength, as well as skin density and stuff like that.
I think they used to give a percentage of the density of diamond to show how durable they were. I don'tthink Colossus was on the same level as Wonderman or Thor.
Thor has just plain proven to be unbreakable, Wonderman is basically energy in a humanoid form and Colossus is metal.
I would say that Colossus is the least durable of all of them, and I can remember many times that he has been hurt by projectiles alone. Actually pierced.
And, since when did he become class 100? Ben was class 85 and She Hulk was class 75.
Wonderman was class 95 and Thor was 100.
No matter. Wonderman's power source is beyond physical. Colossus is just a finite quanitity based on the metal he is made of.
WM wins.

rotiart
Well I wonder. If Wonderman's fists=Thors Hammer
And Thors Hammer>Thor's fist

ABC logic at its finest. smile

In this case fist being pure strength. Wouldn't that mean Wonderman's strength is greather than Thors? Meh.

In any case Wonderman beats Colossus. At worst they tie.

badabing
This is why KMC is the best. I get concrete info from almost every member. I've learned more from these threads than actual comic readings.

batdude123
Originally posted by Validus
Co-sign and Wonder Man is more than a flying brick. He's probably about as powerful as it gets before stepping into the big leagues.

yes

K3VIL
Wonder Man is incredibly durable, he can survive in outerspace and got even used from Hyperion like a drill getting though a moon and was still alive.His strength, when focused or enraged drops in the high Class 100 strength level, he also has ground speed above 200 mph, he has great reflexes, he stated most beings to him are like slow motion, and he has received combat training from Captain America himself.His flight speed is also in the orbital velocity range, so above Mach 25.
Don't understimate the Man Of Wonder.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by batdude123
Please, I like ya, but don't be a fanboy. Wonder Man is everything Colossus is, but better, and then some. Wonder Man 10/10.

I'm sorry...what? Where am I being a fanboy? I've said Colossus loses on a number of occassions when he does lose. And I've even said he loses here. Just merely pointing out that if this were a slugfest, this would be Colossus's match.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
What other abilities would these be? He beat Abomination, in a slugfest. He beat Ultron, in a slugfest. He more than held his own against Hulk, in a slugfest. He overpowered Thor, in a slugfest. He ripped the head off of his own dupe, in a slugfest. Generally all his fights are slugfests.

Who has Colossus beat, or held his own against, in slugfests, that makes you think he can take Wonder Man aswell?

Well. Flight and super-speed for two. Those two differences added to his super-strength and durability would make him the victor here. I'm not denying this. That, and WM being composed of pure ionic energy. I'm sure that'll play out as an advantage somewhere in the fight.

How the hell did WM overpower Thor in a slugfest? Are we talking about the same Thor? Or a depowered one?

Who has Colossus held his own against in a slugfest?
Juggernaut. Gladiator. That should be enough right there. There are also some other characters (with names that I cannot remember) that are superior to him in strength, and yet Colossus defeats them in a slugfest.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by badabing
This is why KMC is the best. I get concrete info from almost every member. I've learned more from these threads than actual comic readings.

Same here actually.

Silent Master
He didn't hold his own against Juggernaut he got Ko'd and frankly his fight with Gladiator was before Glad was established as a cl 100 character and even then he also got ko'd

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Silent Master
He didn't hold his own against Juggernaut he got Ko'd and frankly his fight with Gladiator was before Glad was established as a cl 100 character and even then he also got ko'd

Colossus has also defeated Juggernaut twice in a fight.

And he went toe-to-toe with Gladiator for a long, destructive battle. Gladiator just happened to walk out the victor there.

And how can you say just because he wasn't established as a Class 100 character doesn't make him one? Gladiator has always been high-level Class 100.

So let's please not downplay Colossus's feats.

Silent Master
When did Colossus ever beat Juggernaut and I'm not downplaying his feats, the fact is that Gladiator wasn't esatblished to be cl 100 until later

Also he got ko'd after a building fell on them, Wonderman has been driven through a planet without being ko'd.

Sin I AM
I think your just praising Colossus a little to much...Colossus rarely has good showings against other heavy hitters

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think your just praising Colossus a little to much...Colossus rarely has good showings against other heavy hitters

And I don't think you're giving Colossus enough credit.

When you're part of a 50+ person team, you try to get a lot of spotlight like those 4-member groups.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Silent Master
When did Colossus ever beat Juggernaut and I'm not downplaying his feats, the fact is that Gladiator wasn't esatblished to be cl 100 until later

Also he got ko'd after a building fell on them, Wonderman has been driven through a planet without being ko'd.

Colossus has defeated Juggernaut twice using both his superior intelligence and his superior fighting skills/agility/speed. Of course, he didn't KO Juggy. Just defeated him in the fight.

And again, you make no sense here. Gladiator, upon his introduction to comics, has always been the high-level class 100 character he is today.

Silent Master
Just how did he beat Juggernaut if he didn't KO him, it's not like he has TP that can stop him. This is starting to sound like claiming Spider-man 'beat' Juggernaut by tricking him into cement, it's a win but it is hardly proof of how a slugfest would go.

Also, just what did Gladiator do in that fight that would lead anyone to believe he was cl 100?

batdude123
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm sorry...what? Where am I being a fanboy? I've said Colossus loses on a number of occassions when he does lose. And I've even said he loses here. Just merely pointing out that if this were a slugfest, this would be Colossus's match.

Even if it were a slugfest, Wonder Man would dominate Colossus. You can't even disclaim that fact. Wonder Man is one of the physically strongest and toughest fighters on the planet. Colossus doesn't even hold a candle to WM in terms of being a brawler if you want to look at average showings. WM is more in the league of Hercules and Thor in terms of brawling, while Colossus is more in the league of She Hulk and Thing.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Well. Flight and super-speed for two. Those two differences added to his super-strength and durability would make him the victor here. I'm not denying this. That, and WM being composed of pure ionic energy. I'm sure that'll play out as an advantage somewhere in the fight. OK, but you don't seem to be getting me. In pretty much everycase of Wonder Man fighting and/or beating characters superior to Colossus, he doesn't use super speed. He rarely uses his flight advantage. He's beaten people superior to Colossus in a complete slugfest, yet he can't beat colossus that way?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
How the hell did WM overpower Thor in a slugfest? Are we talking about the same Thor? Or a depowered one? Like this...
1. http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/3586/thor229cdap1.jpg
2. http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5639/thor235nijo7.jpg

Same Thor. Wonder Man is just that strong.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Who has Colossus held his own against in a slugfest?
Juggernaut. Gladiator. That should be enough right there. There are also some other characters (with names that I cannot remember) that are superior to him in strength, and yet Colossus defeats them in a slugfest. Gladiator was no where near as strong when Colossus fought him as he was later on. Byrne stated that the Gladiator in Uncanny X-Men was a hell of alot weaker than when he appeared in FF later on. No matter how you spin it, that wasn't a good showing for Colossus. It was a low showing for Gladiator. Accept it.

Colossus has defeated Juggernaut twice? Interesting. i'd like to see these victories. Bring 'em in...

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Byrne stated that the Gladiator in Uncanny X-Men was a hell of alot weaker than when he appeared in FF later on.

That isn't good enough. Can you prove this? If not then it's just hyperbole.

snoopdogg
Oh and by the way I heard WM is alot weaker than when he first fought Thor also. That was close to his first appearance so they gave him a good showing.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by snoopdogg
That isn't good enough. Can you prove this? If not then it's just hyperbole. I cannot prove it no. But it's bloody obvious. Colossus fans just don't want to accept it. They think it's great that they're favourite character almost stalemated a character who singlehandedly owned the Fantastic Four.

You think i don't feel that same way about the Despero/Aquaman fight. I do, but i'm willing to accept that it's much more a low showing for Despero than a good showing for Aquaman.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
I cannot prove it no. But it's bloody obvious. Colossus fans just don't want to accept it. They think it's great that they're favourite character almost stalemated a character who singlehandedly owned the Fantastic Four.

You think i don't feel that same way about the Despero/Aquaman fight. I do, but i'm willing to accept that it's much more a low showing for Despero than a good showing for Aquaman. And WonderMan beating on Thor is acceptable?

I don't think so.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by snoopdogg
And WonderMan beating on Thor is acceptable?

I don't think so. Wonder Man beating on Thor's not acceptable even though he's been doing it ever since his first appearance and he's always been said to be Thor's equal or the next best thing?

Yeah, great comeback there. Now if Wonder Man actually beat Thor, then you might have a case. But he doesn't. He only matches him physically.

snoopdogg
Who has WM beaten in a fight? One on one. Abomination? Not bad but it happens to him alot. That's what the character is used for.

WM does not match Thor physically. Thor is a fricking Thunder God.

However I will put WM ahead of Colossus in most areas excluding durability though. But he don't outclass him like Thor and Gladiator do.

Validus
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Who has WM beaten in a fight? One on one.
Kyle Rayner weep

UniOmni
Hercules is called the STRONGEST avenger ever.
Thor is always shown to be equal in strength to Herc.

WM simply isn't in the running. But he does whomp Colon.

And Rayner couldn't even handle Sinestro!! He's a God amoung failures.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Validus
Kyle Rayner weep True. That was impressive but the fight was not really over. All WM did was break a shield and make a threat.

Validus
Originally posted by UniOmni
Hercules is called the STRONGEST avenger ever.
Thor is always shown to be equal in strength to Herc.

WM simply isn't in the running. But he does whomp Colon.

And Rayner couldn't even handle Sinestro!! He's a God amoung failures.
Rayner's beaten better than Sinestro. Nero is more hardcore than Sinestro has been in years.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Who has WM beaten in a fight? One on one. Abomination? Not bad but it happens to him alot. That's what the character is used for. Ultron. Hell, Ultron's plural. Atlas. His own equal dupe. Arkon.

Ok, not that many people that matter (though i don't see Colossus ever doing what Wonder Man's done to Ultron). But he's still gone toe to toe with the best Marvel has to offer and held his own every time.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
WM does not match Thor physically. Thor is a fricking Thunder God. You don't seem to be paying attention. Every single time, Wonder Man has given Thor a fight. His strength has been said to rival Thor's sooo many times. Hell even Hercules said it.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
However I will put WM ahead of Colossus in most areas excluding durability though. But he don't outclass him like Thor and Gladiator do. No, he doesn't outclass Colossus as much as those two, but it's still more than enough to beat Colossus. Even in a slugfest.

UniOmni
Originally posted by Validus
Rayner's beaten better than Sinestro. Nero is more hardcore than Sinestro has been in years.

Alex Nero?!

**Snickers**

Alex Zero is more fitting!!
Kyle isn't half the GL Hal or John is.

Kyle.........What a kids name.

Hal.......Thats a mans name.

























I really mean it!!

Validus
Kyle > Harold

And when's the last time John got a win on anyone? Superman in Rebirth? 2 years ago?

UniOmni
^^^This is obviously a racist post from a hatemonger!!


















You are so gonna be reported

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Ultron. Hell, Ultron's plural. Atlas. His own equal dupe. Arkon.

Ok, not that many people that matter (though i don't see Colossus ever doing what Wonder Man's done to Ultron). But he's still gone toe to toe with the best Marvel has to offer and held his own every time. Truth be told Colossus fought the only one who matters in a physical confrontation and that's the Juggernaut b!tch(Not callin you that). And one time he was drunk off his @ss.
Originally posted by Lucid Lui

You don't seem to be paying attention. Every single time, Wonder Man has given Thor a fight. His strength has been said to rival Thor's sooo many times. Hell even Hercules said it. Feats speak for themselves and WM cannot compare. And I think most people would agree.
Originally posted by Lucid Lui

No, he doesn't outclass Colossus as much as those two, but it's still more than enough to beat Colossus. Even in a slugfest. I still don't think WM is that much stronger than Colossus. He don't have an real impressive strength feats he completed on his own. Or even fighting skills feats that puts him ahead of Colossus.

Speed and flight are givens.

Silent Master
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Oh and by the way I heard WM is alot weaker than when he first fought Thor also. That was close to his first appearance so they gave him a good showing.

Funny as Wonderman was stated to have gotten more powerful in his solo series and Kurt Busiek stated that the current Wonderman is even stronger than he was in his solo series.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Silent Master
Funny as Wonderman was stated to have gotten more powerful in his solo series and Kurt Busiek stated that the current Wonderman is even stronger than he was in his solo series. What's so funny about that?

I heard that on another thread. I didn't say it.

Silent Master
Whoever told you that was lying.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Truth be told Colossus fought the only one who matters in a physical confrontation and that's the Juggernaut b!tch(Not callin you that). And one time he was drunk off his @ss. Colossus fought Juggernaut, did ok, and you're telling me that's worth more than Wonder Man holding his own against the likes of Hulk, Hyperion, Thor, Captain Britain, Herc, Atlas, Namor etc. ?

You're kidding me right?


Originally posted by snoopdogg
Feats speak for themselves and WM cannot compare. And I think most people would agree. You're completely right. Feats speak for themself.

1. http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7981/thoravengers11tbij2.jpg
2. http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5315/thor111ffok2.jpg
3. http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7029/thor123vuww8.jpg
4. http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7784/thor130fwso2.jpg
5. http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4346/thor144wcgk2.jpg
6. http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2713/thor212azuc2.jpg
7. http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/617/thor229cddg5.jpg
8. http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7691/thor235nimg2.jpg
9. http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2411/thor3d6kvgl5.jpg

So why are you outright ignoring the encounters Thor and Wonder man have had?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I still don't think WM is that much stronger than Colossus. He don't have an real impressive strength feats he completed on his own. Or even fighting skills feats that puts him ahead of Colossus. Show me these skills Colossus possess. I'd love to see them.

Wonder Man's had training from Cpatain America. He went on to use that training to his advantage in alot of fights.
1. http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7513/training14yhvw2.jpg
2. http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/843/training23ocfx7.jpg
3. http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2172/training39rxwm1.jpg

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Colossus fought Juggernaut, did ok, and you're telling me that's worth more than Wonder Man holding his own against the likes of Hulk, Hyperion, Thor, Captain Britain, Herc, Atlas, Namor etc. ?

You're kidding me right? No I'm not. Juggernaut has a win over 3 of those guys and could beat the other four also.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui


So why are you outright ignoring the encounters Thor and Wonder man have had? I am not ignoring them. Looking at them makes me even more certain Supes would defeat Thor.
Originally posted by Lucid Lui

Show me these skills Colossus possess. I'd love to see them.

Wonder Man's had training from Cpatain America. He went on to use that training to his advantage in alot of fights. Colossus was trained by Wolverine, Cyclops, and even Nightcrawler tained him in acrobatics and sword fighting technique. And also the handbooks give Colossus a level 4 while WM has a level 2.

Here is a simple Judo toss he used to make She-Hulk look like a amateur.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/uncannyxmenannual07page152yo.jpg

Here is a scan where is used "fancy footwork" and even mentions learning acrobatics from Nightcrawler.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandAntaeus.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandAntaeus2.jpg

Mentions Judo he learned from Cyclops comes in handy.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossusandSasquatch2.jpg

Here he does it again this time with a 50ft. Sentinel.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus/ColossusjudotossinaSentinel.jpg

The X-men use Colossus' skills to train new X-teams.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7008/colossus11hf.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7186/colossus27oa.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4643/colossus33dw.gif

Here Colossus trains Sunspot in Kendo stick technique.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossustrainingNewMutants022.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/ColossustrainingNewMutants2022.jpg

Colossus was also trained by Nightcrawler how to sword fight. Kurt is regarded as one of the best too.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/Colossustraining_swords_Excalibur10.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossus%20fights/Colossustraining_swords2_Excalibur-.jpg

I didn't even get to the Danger Room scans yet. It's not really necessary. If this fight goes to a slugfest WM does not outclass him in that type of fight. If WM uses his flight advantage it turns the tide.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by snoopdogg
No I'm not. Juggernaut has a win over 3 of those guys and could beat the other four also. That's great. Doesn't matter though, cause Colossus hasn't. And him having some arguably good showings against Juggernaut doesn't make that the case either.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I am not ignoring them. Looking at them makes me even more certain Supes would defeat Thor. Not ignoring them? You said "WM does not match Thor physically. Thor is a fricking Thunder God."

I've clearly shown that Wonder Man does match him phsyically. Are you willing to accept it yet.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Colossus was trained by Wolverine, Cyclops, and even Nightcrawler tained him in acrobatics and sword fighting technique. And also the handbooks give Colossus a level 4 while WM has a level 2. Handbooks mean nothing to me.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I didn't even get to the Danger Room scans yet. It's not really necessary. If this fight goes to a slugfest WM does not outclass him in that type of fight. If WM uses his flight advantage it turns the tide. There's some good scans there. But really, nothing i see makes me think he's more skilled than Wonder Man. Well, at fencing maybe.

Wonder Man was created to be everything the orignal Avengers line-up had in one person, that includes Caps fighting skills.
1. http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/954/powertest0kmpj6.jpg

Tossing Beast.
1. http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2699/beastthrow3cbiu1.jpg

Using his skills to toss the Hulk around.
1. http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6954/hulkp54qaqb4.jpg

H2H Skills.
1. http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2787/rampageb0slqp8.jpg

With barely any strength left Wonder Man takes out a guy who took Hulk out.
1. http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2952/skill24ayml3.jpg

Beating on Skurge.
1. http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9002/skurge32bucc9.jpg

IMO, they're probably around the same when it comes to h2h skill.

Looking through the Colossus respect thread, his showings seem to only be against mid-tier and no-name brawlers, whereas Wonder Man's tends to fight the best Marvel has to offer. Colossus just doesn't compare.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Lucid Lui


I've clearly shown that Wonder Man does match him phsyically. Are you willing to accept it yet.Not yet. Your gonna have to do better. Thor is way stronger than WM. He has planetary level strength feats that WM cannot compare with.


Originally posted by Lucid Lui


Colossus just doesn't compare. Let me see if I got this right. WM compares with Thor physically but Colossus does not compare with WM in h2h Skill? That's pretty hard to swallow.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Colossus fought Juggernaut, did ok, and you're telling me that's worth more than Wonder Man holding his own against the likes of Hulk, Hyperion, Thor, Captain Britain, Herc, Atlas, Namor etc. ?

You're kidding me right?

Actually he has a good point. Juggernaut would handle any guy on that list and has handled some of them at on time or another. I mean it's hard to find a character who had a good showng against Juggernaut. Fighting Juggernaut and knocking him down is a good example of fighting a top-tier. Actually in my biased opinon Juggernaut is the top of the food chain when it comes to physical battles.

And man WM does not match Thor in strength. Only Herc. does. Thoses two Avengers are in their own class and Simon simply does not belong.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Not yet. Your gonna have to do better. Thor is way stronger than WM. He has planetary level strength feats that WM cannot compare with. I don't think Wonder Man is as strong as Thor. He's obviously not. But he's shown that he's more than strong enough to fight Thor, and hold his own physically.


Originally posted by snoopdogg
Let me see if I got this right. WM compares with Thor physically but Colossus does not compare with WM in h2h Skill? That's pretty hard to swallow. Did you read my whole post? I already said that they're probably about the same in h2h.

What i'm saying is that Colossus' record in slugfests doesn't compare with Wonder Man's.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
I don't think Wonder Man is as strong as Thor. He's obviously not. But he's shown that he's more than strong enough to fight Thor, and hold his own physically. Until Thor gets mad that is. Then he puts a end to WM's nonesense.
Originally posted by Lucid Lui


Did you read my whole post? I already said that they're probably about the same in h2h.

What i'm saying is that Colossus' record in slugfests doesn't compare with Wonder Man's. Now I admitt Colossus is a punk. But who has WM actually defeated in a fight? Sure he's fought some tough guys but he don't have many clear victories.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Until Thor gets mad that is. Then he puts a end to WM's nonesense. In most cases, yeah.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Now I admitt Colossus is a punk. But who has WM actually defeated in a fight? Sure he's fought some tough guys but he don't have many clear victories. Abomination. Fair amount of Ultrons. Atlas/Goliath. He ripped the head off his own equal duplicate.

Rols
I give Wonderman advantage, of course we consider his future self in Guardian of Galaxy which would be curbstomp against Colussos..

batdude123
Colossus gets stomped badly here. Seriously, there's not even a point in discussing a h2h battle. Simon is SO much more than that, it's ridiculous. Colossus loses badly.

Silent Master
He's also ripped Ironman's armor apart, KO'd Thor(IIRC, in MCP#44), beat Furor(see Lucid Lui's post for scan), beat dupe's of the Hulk/Hercules/Sasquatch/Colossus/Vision/Strong Guy, Knocked Drax down with one hit, I'm also pretty sure he beat Arkon

I believe Thor was distracted by the Enchantress during the fight which allowed Simon to land the KO punch.

Rols
bingo..

snoopdogg
Originally posted by batdude123
Colossus gets stomped badly here. Seriously, there's not even a point in discussing a h2h battle. Simon is SO much more than that, it's ridiculous. Colossus loses badly. Stomped? I don't think so. I mean WM has a hard time with Thing and when I did a poll 65% of people thought Colossus would beat Thing. Colossus h2h would give WM one hell of a fight. Think about it this way. It's never been shown that WM is much stronger or any at all than Colossus. Colossus is more durable and well he's a more skilled combatant.

Either way that does not add up to somebody getting stomped.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by snoopdogg

I still don't think WM is that much stronger than Colossus. He don't have an real impressive strength feats he completed on his own. Or even fighting skills feats that puts him ahead of Colossus.

Speed and flight are givens.

He lifted 50,000 tons. Check out his respect thread.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He lifted 50,000 tons. Check out his respect thread. I have the comic. He didn't lift it he was yelling for help. He failed to stopp it cause he was afraid he was going to be crushed.

Lucid Lui
He was still holding 50,000 tons of weight back for a decent amount of time.

He was also one of the Avengers holding up the compressed island.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
He was still holding 50,000 tons of weight back for a decent amount of time. Not really. He realized he got in over his head and could not stop the press and later even admitted being a little too cocky. Colossus on the other hand has actually stopped the press in the danger room while it was stuck at full power. I don't know how much tonnage that is but the press was just as big if not bigger than the one WM attempted to stop.
Originally posted by Lucid Lui



He was also one of the Avengers holding up the compressed island. If Thor wasn't one of the Avengers there holding also that would be a good feat. But being Thor is capable of holding that much weight by himself it's not a good feat to use for WM. I mean Vision was there also but people don't use that as a feat for Vision.

Fanboy
WONDERMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Silent Master
Sorry but supporting part of the Island that housed the hydrobase and a mountain far exceeds any strength feat that Colossus has ever done, that added with his much better track record in hth means that evern in a slugfest,Simon is the favorite.

batdude123
Again, why exactly are you discussing a slugfest between the two? blink That's ALL Colossus is, and Simon is SO much more. Simon wins 10/10. He's pretty much as powerful as it gets before you get to herald level.

Soleran
I don't know if I would put Wonderman that high up but I do think he is above Warpath and I think Warpath can give Colossus a go.

Jonathanos
Wonder Man wins. He's simply too powerful.

DarkCrawler
He was also holding an island all by himself before Invisible Woman came to support the weight too.

Silent Master
http://static.flickr.com/48/119905963_453a3ca15e_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/38/119905964_75a2187031_o.jpg

batdude123
Originally posted by Soleran
I don't know if I would put Wonderman that high up but I do think he is above Warpath and I think Warpath can give Colossus a go.

No, he pretty much is THE top mid-tier character. Simon wins.

The Fake Macoy
The problem with Wonderman is that the only occasions I read comics with him were back in the 90s when he was lousy. Like around the Infinity War when he kept on losing his powers. Or when he was fighting some useless people in West Coast Avengers. Either way I can't really tell how strong he is.

I'm sort of surprised that no one has posted that scan of the Thing having trouble lifting a weight that Wonderman works out with.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Silent Master
Sorry but supporting part of the Island that housed the hydrobase and a mountain far exceeds any strength feat that Colossus has ever done, that added with his much better track record in hth means that evern in a slugfest,Simon is the favorite. Again he had help cause IW placed a wedge into the pivot point of the island. And oh yea his rocket belt may have had something to do with that also. I don't think it's really fair even if it is powered by his energy it's still a f*cking rocket belt. WM is a level 6 guy. Same as Colossus, Namor, Thing etc. All of their strength is pretty equal.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by batdude123
He's pretty much as powerful as it gets before you get to herald level. I don't think so.

Accel
I actually see Colossus standing a better chance than most do around here, although I still see Simon taking the majority. This isn't like, say, Supermn vs Hulk, where people can claim things like Simon can BFR him, attack him from a distance, or vibrate himself intangible.

I say Wonder Man wins, but Colossus gives him somewhat of a fight.

Silent Master
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Again he had help cause IW placed a wedge into the pivot point of the island. And oh yea his rocket belt may have had something to do with that also. I don't think it's really fair even if it is powered by his energy it's still a f*cking rocket belt. WM is a level 6 guy. Same as Colossus, Namor, Thing etc. All of their strength is pretty equal.

If you read it,Sue says that 'he is taking some of the weight off' and then that 'he is lifting it', at which point Reed had her drop her shields and then place them in a different location. so if nothing else from the time she said 'he is lifting it' to the part where she recast her shields, He had zero help

And even ignoring the fact that the belt was powered by his energy, if he wasn't strong enough to lift the Island he wouldn't have been unable to hold onto it.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Accel
I actually see Colossus standing a better chance than most do around here, although I still see Simon taking the majority. This isn't like, say, Supermn vs Hulk, where people can claim things like Simon can BFR him, attack him from a distance, or vibrate himself intangible.

I say Wonder Man wins, but Colossus gives him somewhat of a fight.


Actually since this thread is about a normal fight, Simon could BFR him or attack him from a distance.

thanospimphand
this fight is over fast after wm beats c ass in 10 secs

Grimm22
Originally posted by thanospimphand
this fight is over fast after wm beats c ass in 10 secs

Eh erm

Back in the day, Ben was able to fight WM for sometime. Keep in mind these were the days before Ben was upgraded to class 100 and whatnot.

It would be a good fight, but I think WM wins this

Validus
When was Ben upgraded to Class 100?

Grimm22
Originally posted by Validus
When was Ben upgraded to Class 100?

Ben gets more powerful everytime he comes into contact with anyform of comsic radiation no expression

That and over time his Body natrually evolves

That and Ben has shown numerous times that he is most definitly class 100 no expression

Validus
Originally posted by Grimm22
Ben gets more powerful everytime he comes into contact with anyform of comsic radiation no expression

That and over time his Body natrually evolves

That and Ben has shown numerous times that he is most definitly class 100 no expression
When?

Grimm22
Originally posted by Validus
When?

doh

Dear god you dont know anything about the Thing do you laughing

Jonathanos
Thing is not considered to be Class 100.

hellknight
bump

Rage.Of.Olympus
Neither Thing or Colossus are Class 100. I don't think anyone still thinks that Class 100 means someone being able to lift over 100 tons unless handbooks are being referenced.

Blanket
The definition of class 100 is lifting 100 tons... it's in the name...

the ninjak
Wonderman kills Colossus. Yay!

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Blanket
The definition of class 100 is lifting 100 tons... it's in the name...

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Blanket
The definition of class 100 is lifting 100 tons... it's in the name...

The original Class 100 term meant someone who can lift over 100 tons but like I said I don't think anyone actually believes that anymore unless handbooks are mentioned. I think KMC is the only website who has posters who think otherwise. Now most people use Class 100 to refer to someone who is a top tier heavy hitter capable of mixing it up with just about anyone.

snoopdogg
So what's Class 90 then?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by snoopdogg
So what's Class 90 then?

Refers to someone who is weaker than Class 100.

Class 90 is a handbook term more so than Class 100. Class 100 has evolved beyond being used in association with just handbook terms. No one takes those terms seriously. Class 5, Class 85 those mean shit at this point. Class 100 simply refers to a group of elite characters such as Superman, Thor etc.

As a matter of fact there was a thread about it on Herochat recently.

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,219871.0.html

snoopdogg
That's the gayest thing I've heard today.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's the gayest thing I've heard today.

Really? Most people don't care if a character is rated as Class 100 in a handbook. Colossus is a Class 100 and Thing is Class 85 but if I had to pick who's strongest? I'd say it was the Thing although an argument can be made for Colossus of course. They could be equals but my point would still stand. Neither are Class 100's in the sense that the term is most used as today.

Blanket
heh

What's the point of stating class 100 then, if it actually has nothing to do with a number?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Blanket
heh

What's the point of stating class 100 then, if it actually has nothing to do with a number?

I don't know. I wasn't going online to boards when the trend started.

Blanket
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't know. I wasn't going online to boards when the trend started. Uh, huh.

So, anyway. Colossus is a class 100, and Thing an 85, although he could be considered a class 100 due to some of his feats. Still think Colossus hits harder, and is more durable though. Although many would believe this to be a stomp, personally, I'd give a 6/10 to Colossus.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Blanket
Uh, huh.

So, anyway. Colossus is a class 100, and Thing an 85, although he could be considered a class 100 due to some of his feats. Still think Colossus hits harder, and is more durable though. Although many would believe this to be a stomp, personally, I'd give a 6/10 to Colossus.

Anyone who thinks Colossus stomps the Thing clearly has not actually read any Thing. He has some impressive feats up there with Colossus' best. I think he might be stronger although the edge would not be something actually noticeable in my opinion. I do agree that Colossus is more durable.

Colossus is more skilled in terms of martial arts knowledge but I personally think Thing is a better brawler.

I'd say a near split with Colossus maybe taking 5.5 to 6 out of 10 like you said.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Blanket
Uh, huh.

So, anyway. Colossus is a class 100, and Thing an 85, although he could be considered a class 100 due to some of his feats. Still think Colossus hits harder, and is more durable though. Although many would believe this to be a stomp, personally, I'd give a 6/10 to Colossus.

The Nuul
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The original Class 100 term meant someone who can lift over 100 tons but like I said I don't think anyone actually believes that anymore unless handbooks are mentioned. I think KMC is the only website who has posters who think otherwise. Now most people use Class 100 to refer to someone who is a top tier heavy hitter capable of mixing it up with just about anyone.

No thats 100+

100 means the can lift up to 100 tons.

Also HC is for gay ass little kids, no other boards take them seriously anyways.

Batroc
Originally posted by Blanket
heh

What's the point of stating class 100 then, if it actually has nothing to do with a number?

It's a comparative thing rather than the actual weight, at least for the higher level characters.
In the first edition of the handbook, She Hulk was stated to be able to lift 50 tons, Colossus was at 70 tons, Thing 85, Thor and Wonderman at 95, Hercules at 100, which is insane when you think of the feats they have. Then the Class 100 idea came in, but that's hardly useful either. I mean, if Colossus can lift 110 tons he's Class 100, if Wonderman can lift 50,000 tons he's still Class 100.

snoopdogg
I remember reading a issue stating that She-Hulk can lift 75 tons. There was also a issue showing Thing lifting 85 tons awhile back in a FF issue. And in a 90's X-Men book a Sentinel scanned Doc Samson and stated he could lift 25 tons but in Doc's defence he had short hair at the time. And these are all in actuall comics rather than handbooks.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I haven't seen it being stated that the Thing lifting 85 tons as his limit but I do recall it being stated that the Thing was lifting 85 tons however that doesn't mean anything . Even back when Marvel claimed the Thing could lift 5 tons (The Skrulls even referenced that according to their scans the Thing lifted that much.) he was doing shit way beyond that class.

I haven't read enough of Samson to try and dispute that. I haven't seen the She-Hulk thing. At least I don't remember.

snoopdogg
I believe it was stated that She-Thing could lift 85 tons or some sh!t also. And Rogue was shown lifting 50 tons once iirc. Also in a X-Men issue Colossus was stated to lift hundreds of tons.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by snoopdogg
I believe it was stated that She-Thing could lift 85 tons or some sh!t also. And Rogue was shown lifting 50 tons once iirc. Also in a X-Men issue Colossus was stated to lift hundreds of tons.

Well lifting something doesn't really mean shit. I've seen Thor lift a few tons. It doesn't mean anything unless it was stated that this was near a character's limit or something similar.

And the Thing has supported an oil rig.

KingD19
^Colossus has kept the roof of a cave from caving in.

snoopdogg
Feats are often ambiguous. Thing has also had trouble lifting a 2 ton dumbell iirc.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by KingD19
^Colossus has kept the roof of a cave from caving in. Yep, and on top of that he was supporting the weight of a series of massive avalanches that caused the cave in.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Feats are often ambiguous. Thing has also had trouble lifting a 2 ton dumbell iirc.

Never seen that. Was this the Silver Age?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by KingD19
^Colossus has kept the roof of a cave from caving in.

And the Sky is blue.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Never seen that. Was this the Silver Age? It was 80's iirc.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by snoopdogg
It was 80's iirc.

Do you know whether it was a Fantastic Four issue or a guest appearance in an other comic?

I've read most of the Fantastic Four, and I don't remember the incident.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Do you know whether it was a Fantastic Four issue or a guest appearance in an other comic?

I've read most of the Fantastic Four, and I don't remember the incident. Marvel Two in-one I think. He was having a hard time lifting one of Wonderman's dumbells and I think it was 2 tons.

Blanket
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/wondythingstrength1cr.jpg

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Marvel Two in-one I think. He was having a hard time lifting one of Wonderman's dumbells and I think it was 2 tons.

Oh yea I remember now. It was in Marvel two-In-One #78 when they fought because of Xemnu.

Colossus-Big C
colossus is more durable, he tanked an attack that killed thor and hulk.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
colossus is more durable, he tanked an attack that killed thor and hulk.

I take it you didn't actually read that issue.

I find it asinine how anyone can use that as a durability feat for Colossus. He was dead and decimated like all of the heroes. He just wasn't as decimated as the others because he transformed the instant before the attack. And him being less ravaged is not a durability feat clearly because it was revealed that Reed Richards was less damaged than the other heroes. All of this happened because Doom subconsciously helped it happen on top of everything as I recall. Otherwise it was basically impossible.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I take it you didn't actually read that issue.

I find it asinine how anyone can use that as a durability feat for Colossus. He was dead and decimated like all of the heroes. He just wasn't as decimated as the others because he transformed the instant before the attack. And him being less ravaged is not a durability feat clearly because it was revealed that Reed Richards was less damaged than the other heroes. All of this happened because Doom subconsciously helped it happen on top of everything as I recall. Otherwise it was basically impossible. i read the issue, it is a durability feat, reed is elastic so he wasnt that badly injured, the others were in worst shape then him

OneDumbG0
Wonderman 9/10.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
i read the issue, it is a durability feat, reed is elastic so he wasnt that badly injured, the others were in worst shape then him

Like I said, Reed proved that you don't have to be more durable or anything to survive the blast in a better condition. A different make up physically saved him just like it saved Colossus along with transforming right before it hit.

Batroc
Classic Wonderman wins 10/10

Recent Wonderman?? Don't know. He's had some terrible showings. Did he get downgraded somehow?

Batroc
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I haven't seen it being stated that the Thing lifting 85 tons as his limit but I do recall it being stated that the Thing was lifting 85 tons however that doesn't mean anything . Even back when Marvel claimed the Thing could lift 5 tons (The Skrulls even referenced that according to their scans the Thing lifted that much.) he was doing shit way beyond that class.

I haven't read enough of Samson to try and dispute that. I haven't seen the She-Hulk thing. At least I don't remember.

I read on another board about an FF comic where The Thing is wielding a couple of giant swords weighing 100 tons each. Has anyone else heard of this? There was no scan or issue number, just a description.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Batroc
I read on another board about an FF comic where The Thing is wielding a couple of giant swords weighing 100 tons each. Has anyone else heard of this? There was no scan or issue number, just a description.

Are you referring to the time the material used to create giant futuristic Skyscrapers was melted down and compressed into hyper dense swords that the Thing wielded? Yea that was definitely a very impressive feat.

For other impressive feats there's also the time the Thing supported a building that looked like the Louvre (Which is around 200 tons I believe.), supported an entire oil rig, was called an equal to Ultron, knocked around a living embodiment of a black hole etc.

Colossus-Big C
colossus lifts 100 tons
ultimate colossus lifts well beyond that

Batroc
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you referring to the time the material used to create giant futuristic Skyscrapers was melted down and compressed into hyper dense swords that the Thing wielded? Yea that was definitely a very impressive feat.

For other impressive feats there's also the time the Thing supported a building that looked like the Louvre (Which is around 200 tons I believe.), supported an entire oil rig, was called an equal to Ultron, knocked around a living embodiment of a black hole etc.

Thanks, that must be the one! Any idea which issue the sword feat is from, or roughly what era of the FF comic it's from? I'd like to read that one.

There's a good recent Thing battle in Black Panther issue 12. He's holding his own against an upgraded adamantium Absorbing Man. In fact he's enjoying the fight : "I've been aching for a brawl like this".

snoopdogg
I've heard the tales of this alleged sword feat for years. But I have never seen it.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you referring to the time the material used to create giant futuristic Skyscrapers was melted down and compressed into hyper dense swords that the Thing wielded? Yea that was definitely a very impressive feat.

For other impressive feats there's also the time the Thing supported a building that looked like the Louvre (Which is around 200 tons I believe.), supported an entire oil rig, was called an equal to Ultron, knocked around a living embodiment of a black hole etc. so both of these guys lift above 100tons

ankur29
WM

much stronger

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
so both of these guys lift above 100tons Yes. I mean, Thing was explicitly referred to as being Class 100 on-panel in an issue of Avengers: The Initiative ironically.

snoopdogg
Not sure that's the point the writer was trying to get acrossed.

OneDumbG0
^ Thing teaching a class on how to deal with Class-100 threats isn't meant to communicate that Thing is a Class-100 character?

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