Phoenix Force (Jean) vs Abraxas

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Mr Master
This was interrupted before.

Let us proceed.

Mr Master
I'm going to keep Your scans along with your posts.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Here you have Phoenix being reborn every cycle as the Big Bang which created 616:

NOT as the Big Bang....From the Big Bang, like ALL other Abstracts.
"This is HOW I came into BEING"

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
the initiator of creation cycles

According to this scan, She is the SPARK that IGNITES the Big Bang,
it does say Her Fire does the consuming.
Her SPARK IGNITES Creation, She does NOT do the Creating.

I have always said this...Of ONE Universe ONLY though.
These are your scans.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As the narrator says the power that births the cosmos

Again, "the SPARK that brought the cosmos into being"...NOT the CREATOR.
"The Fire that would ultimately consume it"...

Phoenix's Fire is the SAME Fire that is used to End a Universe at the end of it's cycle.
But Phoenix if NOT the Big Bang.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As per Reeds comments :

I respect anything that comes out of Reed's mouth.

Had he been more Assertive I'd give this one, but he WANS'T.
"Call it the Big Bang, or the Phoenix Force, or What Have You"

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As per this handful of cosmics comments pertaining to it being the life force of reality:

"life force of reality"?

Don't add Your own Text to the Scan please.

Phoenix is ONE of the Primal Forces"
"There is a Natural Order to Her being, as to yours and ALL Creation"

"life force of reality"?

So how the heck is Galactus going to STILL be around, IF Phoenix were to DIE?...AND Death ?...who invites Galactus to it's Realm.
"Can even you Endure such Desolation"? Who knows....BUT He WILL Endure.

Life in a Universe would be affected by Phoenix's absence of being, BUT NOT Abstracts.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Again the life force of reality:


When have you shown this a first time?

Kubik clearly says, She's the sustenance of the Stars, NOT Reality.
"AND yet, the Phoenix merely SERVES EVOLUTION itself"

The second scan says Life comes from the Stars (I guess that was your connection)
Life, on a miniscule scale yes. (Humans, Mortals ect.)

But Abstracts, Cosmics and Many Many others Do NOT need the Stars to survive.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And yet while its the life force of reality, the very Big Bang, its simultaneously a consciousness beyond time and space

Actually ONLY the Force in it's NATURAL STATE is Beyond Space and Time.
AN honest mis-iterpretation I'm sure.

Mr Master

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
An entity considered by other cosmics to be the craftsman of reality:
Her "handiwork"

"Craftsman of reality"?

Death actually Equates itself to Phoenix, what are you talking about?
"She is the embodiment of Life itself EMBODIED by Passion...As I REPRESENT Order and Structure and Entropy" (Their BOTH Abstracts)

Mr Master
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A power that while sustaining reality with its energies, also exists beyond it empowering avatars across the multiverse for reality maintenance duties: the manipulation of universes in the palm of their hands

This Scan has absolutely NOTHING to do with what your saying about empowering Avatars...NOTHING.

You Always thought this Scan depicted Phoenix manipulating a Universe in her hands...

This is a Scan that you have MIS-Interpreted for a long time, and I think it's time to burst your bubble.

From X-Men #154

A Bacteria called Sublime, took over Hank's (Beast) mind, and a portion of Phoenix's power

Here Sublime thinks he will control creation with Phoenix's power and his own.
But actually Phoenix was disinfecting the Bacteria while Sublime was killing other X-Men

Here Phoenix extracts Sublime from Hank's body

Here Phoenix says, "Some KIND of Bacteria Colony gone rogue...I had to Amputate the whole Future"
Jean is told, "Phoenix DISINFECTION Successful"

Jean then asks, "Now What"?


We know that by Phoenix cutting off the Future, the Infection, which was Sublime, was destroyed, but the EVENTS that took place, have NOT been changed.

And NOW, Phoenix is asking what's next? Or more specifically, "Now What"?

It tells Jean, "This is Now" (yellow energy in her hands)

Phoenix asks, "Is this the Future"?
It tells her, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it" (the Future)

It continues to say, "Patient will die unless internal heart damage repaired"

The "Patient" is the FUTURE still at this point apparently.

Which is why Phoenix says, "But it didn't have to END like that, my Friends didn't deserve that." (some even died), the ONLY thing that has ENDED is the Future since Phoenix Amputated it.

It then says, "No, Turn around, No End yet, there, Turn, Here before always, HOSPITAL White Hot (It's a hospital for Universes)
This is ACTUALLY the process taking place of a FUTURE being Repaired, because it HAS NO Future since Phoenix Amputated it.

Jean loses concentration and she is reminded to "Now heal wound MAKE Better FUTURE"
"Heart got stuck", (Because she Wasn't concentrating) Turn (some kinda White Hot Room code word for, "keep on fixing"wink

Now after that, we end up with this.

It tells Jean, "Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training, NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms"?... of WHAT Atoms?

The ONLY action I've seen, is A Future being repaired.

It's actually talking about the FUTURE that was just repaired.

This leads to this, and as you can read, has nothing to do with the former.

It tells Jean, "It lost it's parents when Unity broke out across the Megasystems"
Phoenix is CLUELESS as to WHAT this is, or WHAT to do with it.

Jean says, "Did I have to FIX something that was dying? What is it?"

It tells her, "A badly wounded Orphan Universe...Phoenix work"

What the hell does that mean?....Jean Grey is just as LOST as I am.
"But...but WHAT's that supposed to mean?
It TELLS Phoenix WHAT that means,
"That Henry's heart's broken, that Scott succumbs to loneliness", ect..ect..

It's just telling Jean the outcome of "Here Comers Tomorrow", the Future that is Now, this is WHY it's a "badly wounded Orphan Universe" due to "Phoenix Work"

THAT'S WHAT that meant ALL this time? hysterical2

I thought it was an injured Universe she repaired atom by atom, but EVIDENTLY NOT.

Mr Master

So now I understand why this joker says, "if you want IT to GROW a New FUTURE to replace the one you cut away"
He also says, "And they said I was to tell you to HURRY"

Implying she can't do this AT WILL, but with in a TIME LIMIT.

He also says, "If it was me, I'd let it DIE"
I was fooled into believing he was talking about the Orphan Universe", but in fact he's talking about the Future Phoenix wants to replace it with.

So Phoenix decides to give it a different Future, so that Henry's heart won't be broken, and Scott does not succumb to loneliness", ect..ect..
"Live Scott"

Now how did she do that?...How did Phoenix ALTER the Future?

Did she snap her fingers and it happened?...NO

Did she think it and it happened?...NO

Did she speak it into happening?...NO

She actually went to the past and forced Scott to be with Emma
In order to prevent the events of "Here comes tomorrow"

A little Mind control, some Time travel, and you can Alter the Future too.

No more Phoenix reforming Universes in the hand claims. Thank you.

Mr Master
On The LT bowing down Scan....

let me break it down for you.

Scan 1:
Here Eternity is explaining to Jean how the Universe works and how it has lead to us....Already proved this many times over...Phoenix is the SPARK that ignites the natural Big Bang of a Universe, which ends life and begins life in said Universe.
Phoenix is NOT the Big Bang and the scan clearly tells us the Celestials SEEDED the Universe with Creation and the Celestial were created by Eternity.

Scan 2:
Ok, here Eternity says, "like Galactus was the sole shall Humanity Begin the End, End the Beginning."

NOTHING about Phoenix.

"Oblivion will embrace all...creation will Renew itself"...(no need for Phoenix)
"And therein lies the Stranger's conceit"...

Ok, I'm sure you see now that Stranger wants to be able to do..what Humans will be able to do one day.(Which is WHY they are BOWING to HIM in the scan...because one day WE(Humans)will NOT need Abstracts or even LT...they will be as NOTHING to US(Humans).
"He plans to spark Humanity's Evolution Engulf the cosmos."

How does he PLAN to do that?....You said it was with the Phoenix Force Power.

But I think not.

Scan 3 & 4:
The Stranger was going to use 5(FIVE)individuals to accomplish his "Spark in Humanity's Evolution Engulf the cosmos"

Marko, Jean, Iceman, Toad, Mystique.

More Proof it was FIVE individuals the Stranger was going to use to "Spark in Humanity's Evolution Engulf the cosmos"...NOT Phoenix...NOT PHOENIX AT ALL....Jean didn't even have the Phoenix Force during this time.
"To pluck FIVE representative Earthlings to SERVE as his Evolutionary Vanguards"


Mr Master
Originally posted by Galactic Storm
Phoenix Force enabled Eternity to preserve Galactus.

Not on panel.

I'll give you both accounts that have been depicted ON PANEL.
If you can find me just ONE comic where this is drawn, I'll agree with you, but since I know your basing this idea on bios or handbooks I know you can't.

Tell me where if anywhere does it mention Phoenix supposedly "enabling Galen to incubate in the Cosmic Egg" about even JUST Saving Galactus...This is the SECOND time they depicted Galactus's Origin On Panel.

And this is the ORIGINAL depiction of Galactus's ORIGIN.
See anything different?

Yea me neither.

Look hard...and realize Phoenix is NOT even mentioned during the Galactus history lesson.

Originally posted by Galactic Storm
M'Kryann crystal, Mulitversal power and one of the greatest power in Multiverse.

Multiversal? Again NOT On Panel.

"An explosion that scatters stellar mass out across a NEW Virgin Universe"
Exactly A UNIVERSE...but NOT a Multiverse.
On Panel it's a Universal threat...

This is a more recent acknowledgment of the Mkraan's capacity.

Besides the FACT that Phoenix has ALWAYS needed X-Men to help her do the job, but let's just overlook

Mr Master
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The energy was already there but Phoenix linked it together and formed a constant stable flow of it throughout the multiverse. Hence my statement that Phoenix created an energy matrix that flows around the multiverse
"Phoenix linked it together and formed a constant flow"......This is not true....
"Phoenix created an energy matrix that flows around the multiverse".....This is not true
:Observe everyone:

This is before the Phoenix even came into the picture:

It clearly says 'when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned, the localized energy fields Create an Energy Matrix.'
The Energy fields merge ON THEIR OWN...and the Interfaces across the Mulitverse align BY THEMSELVES...

AT the MOMENT of ALIGNMENT, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower", a less than monumental feat...considering it was the Energy Matrix(ON IT"S OWN)that allowes simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's OWN.....

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
prior to Phoenix's involvement there was just ambient energy which aligned periodically. Phoenixes feat resulted in a permanently linked energy matrix which flows through the multiverse
"Phoenixs feat resulted in a permanently linked energy matrix which flows through the multiverse"......and this is also not true.

What REALLY happened was this:

While Necrom and Feron had fought, MERLYN had JUMPED INTO the Energy Matrix...

He was swept across the Multiverse and was finally able to control the Energy Matrix and created Otherworld.
At Otherworld Merlyn, along with his daughter Roma, over-looked the Multiverse.

MERLYN repaired the Energy Matrix which now has a permanent flow.....NOT Phoenix.

Dude, come on, do you know how long it took to edit all of Basti0n's posts in the other thread? lol

Seriously though, just continue the debate in that one. There's no need to open a new one yet again.

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