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Darth Revan & Darth Malak vs. Mace & Depa

Which pair will win?

Mace and Depa.

Revan and Malak for sure, Sith'ari and Darth Sexy have provided alot of proof in the Mace and Kyle vs. Revan and Obi-Wan thread that Revan > Mace and since Malak is considered to be on Dooku's level if not higher I can't see Depa beating him.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Mace and Depa.

NONSENSE YOU REMIND ME OF A FISH IN HIBERNATION WHILST MATING WIH A DOGGYPUS

mace could proberly take them out one on one but its hard to justify game charactors to movie characotrs.

im not sure more cannon info on malak and revan plz.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Revan and Malak for sure, Sith'ari and Darth Sexy have provided alot of proof in the Mace and Kyle vs. Revan and Obi-Wan thread that Revan > Mace and since Malak is considered to be on Dooku's level if not higher I can't see Depa beating him.

Oh yeah? Tell me, how can they provide proof supporting a completely unknown character versus one that we know a lot about.

Mace and Depa win.

Mace and Depa make Revan and Malak look like two Coleman Trebor clones.

How is Revan unknown? No more unknown than the TATJ characters.

Mace and Depa wins definitely.

I love the logic on this forum. "These characters are unknown, so they automatcally lose". Aside from Nai, I've yet to see anyone provide an argument for Mace>Revan.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I love the logic on this forum. "These characters are unknown, so they automatcally lose". Aside from Nai, I've yet to see anyone provide an argument for Mace>Revan.

*snip*
Revan:
- force and lightsaber prodigy
- a decade (maybe) of training
- 3 years (at max) for combat experience
- defeated some powerful non-force users (Yusanis, Mandalore)
- defeated Darth Malak

Mace:
- force and lightsaber prodigy
- 5 decades of training
- 3 years (minimum) of combat experience (Clone Wars) - obviously enough fights before to gain a legendary reputation that made a gang of 14 bandits run away from him and let some "soldiers" on Haruun Kal feel glad that they survived a confrontation with a naked Mace
- creator of the "most deadly style of lightsaber combat"
- mastered multiple forms at the age of 13
- defeated Sidious in lightsaber combat
- was able to contend with Yoda in sheer lightsaber combat
- fought people like Dooku, Yoda, Depa, Kar Vastor (practice, real combat)
- completely tooled Asajj Ventress in direct confrontation
- took on entire armies of battle droids and brought down the hoover tank on Dantooine when most of his Clone Troops were killed by that think
- READ "SHATTERPOINT"

Who wins here ? I'd say the guy with more training and combat experience who - isn't Revan.

Depa vs Malak ?
Malak had his jar removed by some Jedi. Malak had to take down Revan with a backstabing action being unable to challenge him in direct confrontation.

Depa was the second youngest regular Council Member (behind Mace, Anakin doesn't count) ever (meaning she's quite powerful in terms of force powers) and Mace personally states that her bladework surpassed his Vaapad while Yoda tells Mace that Mace might be the only Jedi that is possibly able to stop her.

Hm...let me see. Even if Mace does not defeat Revan (after a long fight though), Depa would finish Malak turning this into Depa + Mace vs Revan.

Jedi win...

I loved that episode in CW where Mace pawned all those droids without his lightsaber. And during Palpatine's capture. He was soo bad@$$

'*snip*
Revan:
- force and lightsaber prodigy
- a decade (maybe) of training
- 3 years (at max) for combat experience
- defeated some powerful non-force users (Yusanis, Mandalore)
- defeated Darth Malak

Mace:
- force and lightsaber prodigy
- 5 decades of training
- 3 years (minimum) of combat experience (Clone Wars) - obviously enough fights before to gain a legendary reputation that made a gang of 14 bandits run away from him and let some "soldiers" on Haruun Kal feel glad that they survived a confrontation with a naked Mace
- creator of the "most deadly style of lightsaber combat"
- mastered multiple forms at the age of 13
- defeated Sidious in lightsaber combat
- was able to contend with Yoda in sheer lightsaber combat
- fought people like Dooku, Yoda, Depa, Kar Vastor (practice, real combat)
- completely tooled Asajj Ventress in direct confrontation
- took on entire armies of battle droids and brought down the hoover tank on Dantooine when most of his Clone Troops were killed by that think
- READ "SHATTERPOINT"'


I'd just like to point out that Revan actually got some real life battle experience against other force users in those three years, Mace fought what, like 9 times against force users (Dooku, Sidious, Grievous (twice?), Assaj, Bulq, Depa, Kar and Vos)?

Not to mention the fact that you are completely overrating Mace's feats, and underrating Revan's. Revan has done far more than you've listed, for instance he defeated two Tarentateks at once, and Mace hardly tooled Assaj for instance.

Revan had more combat experience than 3 years, the Mandalorian Wars +Jedi Civil War, lased a lot longer, plus he fought countless ammounts of Jedi, and was Considered the Heart of The Force, I'd imagine you'd have to be pretty powerful for that

I love threads that pit relatively known characters against two well known characters from 4000 years in the future.

Revan wasn't even in the Mandalorian Wars the entire time. And he was called "The Heart of the Force" by Kreia, which amounts to about jack shit.

I don't know where Nai got his timeline for Revan.

Originally posted by Advent
Revan wasn't even in the Mandalorian Wars the entire time. And he was called "The Heart of the Force" by Kreia, which amounts to about jack shit.

1.) I didn't say it was the whole time
2.) Kreia is very smart/wise, and knows what she's talking about, she had very powerful foresight

How does it mean jack shit Advent? She was clearly reliable when she said that Exile was the death of the force - he was a hole in the force and she was clearly able to see it through him - she does have powerful foresight as Kreigur just pointed out.

Now the fact that she says looking at Revan was like looking at the heart of the force, means that he must have been incredibly strong in the force, presumably the strongest she had ever seen and wasn't she around during Kun's sith wars?

Not once has someone got my name right /slashwrists

lol sorry, it's just so similar to Kruegur's that it somethimes gets confusing.

Or it could've just been an aggrandizement, which amounts to jack shit. In any case, "Heart of the Force" in what way? Power? Knowledge? Spirit? And when has Kreia stared into the "Heart of the Force" anyways?

Well you see, The Exile was a hole in the force and she stated that looking into her eyes was like looking into the death of the force. I would imagine that saying looking into Revan's eyes was like looking into the heart of the force equates to extreme strength in the force.

Revan and Malak takes this easily.

When has she ever even seen either of those? And prove the "Heart of the Force" means "power". Is the "Heart of the Force" actually power? Have we ever even seen it?

And again, it could've simply been aggrandizing description. Basically hyperbole, if you will.

Oh and aggrandizement? lol I have no clue what that means. I checked on google definition and all it said was something to do with wealth.

Originally posted by Advent
When has she ever even seen either of those? And prove the "Heart of the Force" means "power". Is the "Heart of the Force" actually power? Have we ever even seen it?

I'm guessing it means strength in the force, what else would it mean?

Originally posted by Sith'ari
Oh and aggrandizement? lol I have no clue what that means. I checked on google definition and all it said was something to do with wealth.

It means to make something seem greater than it actually is. An "overexaggeration" if you will. Simple. You learn that crap in high school (probably even middle schools nowadays)! Pay attention.

Anyways, basically hyperbole.

Why would Kreia do that? She isn't the type for exaggeration, The Exile was Literally the Death of The Force if you play the game

Originally posted by Advent
It means to make something seem greater than it actually is. An "overexaggeration" if you will. Simple. You learn that crap in high school (probably even middle schools nowadays)! Pay attention.

Anyways, basically hyperbole.

lol. 'Simple'? 'Pay Attention'?

I'm 13, and I've never come across the term and google definition made it clear to me at the time that it only had something to do with wealth. Are you sure you didn't get it wrong?

And how does that make Revan the "Heart of the Force"? What does that even mean? If you want to look at it in a literal sense, as soon as Revan dies - there goes the Force, and all that.

If she doesn't overestimate, then I guess any old Ancient Sith can beat the shit out of the Exile, and everyone else.

"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."

And again, everyone praises Revan like a god in the games. And he was Kreia's pupil.

Originally posted by Sith'ari
lol. 'Simple'? 'Pay Attention'?

I'm 13, and I've never come across the term and google definition made it clear to me at the time that it only had something to do with wealth. Are you sure you didn't get it wrong?

Wow. I always thought you were my age. Like around 20 or something, possibly even late teens.

In any case, "google definition" whatever that is sucks in comparison to the ultimate definition website, dictionary.com:

aggrandizement

1. to widen in scope; increase in size or intensity; enlarge; extend.
2. to make great or greater in power, wealth, rank, or honor.
3. to make (something) appear greater.

Synonyms 2. inflate, strengthen, exalt. 3. magnify.
Antonyms 1. reduce. 2. diminish. 3. minimize.

I deleted some of the crap that comes up in wingdings, but here.

Perhaps he doesn't die? We don't know yet, and there is still the thing that he might remain as a Force Ghost, as Obi-Wan said, "More powerful than you can possibly imagine" Qui-Gon was referred to in the movies as achieving Immortality.

Heart of the Force could means tons of things, but you would have to be powerful, it sounds just like a title of the Chosen One

Originally posted by Advent
And how does that make Revan the "Heart of the Force"? What does that even mean? If you lwant to look at it in a literal sense, as soon as Revan dies - there goes the Force, and all that.

If she doesn't overestimate, then I guess any old Ancient Sith can beat the shit out of the Exile, and everyone else.

"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."

And again, everyone praises Revan like a god in the games. And he was Kreia's pupil.

1. I never stated that he was the heart of the force Motoko. Neither did Kreia, she states 'looking into his eyes was like looking into the heart of the force'. Key word - like. And 'Heart of the Force' is clearly being used by her as a metaphor. And she really wouldn't have a reason to lie to The Exile, she could possibly overestimate Revan but this is still unlikely, she seemed realistic and wise.

Also, she was clearly reliable when she said that Exile was the death of the force - he was a hole in the force and she was clearly able to see it through him - she does have powerful foresight.

Now the fact that she says looking at Revan was like looking at the heart of the force, means that he must have been incredibly strong in the force, presumably the strongest she had ever seen and wasn't she around during Kun's sith wars?

Now you see, she seems to give a reliable account of what looking at the Exile was like at the same moment that she gives an account of what looking at what Revan was like, and she does so much in the same way, which leads me to believe that her word in this instance is reliable.

2. Firstly, when she says this, she is probably being less genuine anyways (might have been trying to prepare The Exile if she were to join Revan and take them on) but nonetheless, I still don't see what's wrong with this statement. Most of the old masters probably would tool Revan and The Exile. We've seen what Sadow can do. We've seen what Ragnos' sceptor can do. We've see how overpowered minor force users get when in possesion of their artifacts and teachings. Most of the old masters like Ragnos, Sadow and Pall probably would tool them, badly.

'Wow. I always thought you were my age. Like around 20 or something, possibly even late teens.

In any case, "google definition" whatever that is sucks in comparison to the ultimate definition website, dictionary.com:

aggrandizement

1. to widen in scope; increase in size or intensity; enlarge; extend.
2. to make great or greater in power, wealth, rank, or honor.
3. to make (something) appear greater.

Synonyms 2. inflate, strengthen, exalt. 3. magnify.
Antonyms 1. reduce. 2. diminish. 3. minimize.

I deleted some of the crap that comes up in wingdings, but here.'

lol really? Even when I first registered?
Well that's cool, I've been trying to learn a new word every single day, so today's word can be agramizement.

Originally posted by Sith'ari
1. I never stated that he was the heart of the force Motoko.

That's great. I never even said you did. I was talking to Kreiger.

Oh right, my bad.

Originally posted by Adas
I'd just like to point out that Revan actually got some real life battle experience against other force users in those three years, Mace fought what, like 9 times against force users (Dooku, Sidious, Grievous (twice?), Assaj, Bulq, Depa, Kar and Vos)?

Oh...he did ? Where, huh ?
All Jedi were fighting on his side during the Mandalorian Wars. So...not there.
In the "Jedi Civil War" he commanded assassination squads to take down the Jedi. So...not there...

So according to canon material Revan just took down Malak, the three apprentices and Bastilla on his own and nobody else.



Wow. Revan defeated two Tarentateks at once ? How ? By tossing a thermal detonator into the room ? By detonating them with grenades ? We don't know. And Mace did tool Asajj in combat - just read his words in the situation. I remember something like "You might be good with that blades but you have no chance..."



What great logic. So...the "heart of the force" is a metaphor ? For what ? Power ? Maybe she just thought Revan's eyes were beautiful. Maybe she was just refering to his will to gain power. Maybe she was only talking about the fact that she thought Revan was the most gifted among their students.

But wait...she also calls the Exile the strongest she ever trained, while saying he's a child next to the ancient Sith and their fighting prowess. Hmm...looks like Revan isn't actualy the God of the SW universe.

To go even further: If the Exile is a child compared to the ancients and probably near Revan in terms of power while Yoda is more powerful than people who did defeat Ancient Sith in direct confrontation (Odan, Thon) and Mace comes close to him in terms of lightsaber duelling - how can Revan even hope to defeat Mace in direct confrontation ?

If you want to base your entire argument on Kreia's statement, then I can do the same and Revan and Malak are pwned. Or you realize that Kreia is a fallible source and then - sorry to say - you have basically no base to argue that Revan + Malak > Mace + Depa.

Thon defeated Sith on Ambria, or dark Jedi? And do you have evidence of who it was exactly that Odan Urr defeated during and after the Great Hyperspace Wars? As we have seen, there is nothing to suggest all of the ancient sith are uber, just because they are ancient sith. Aside from Ragnos, Simus, Sadow, and Kressh, all of the other ancient sith we see in GAOTS could be as good as an average Jedi. Also, what makes you think Kreia wasn't talking about the likes of those 4 powerful ancient sith, or the likes of Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall who she also mentioned? Saying Yoda was better than people that defeated ancient sith(who may or not have been the more powerful ones), isn't a very compelling argument.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Also, what makes you think Kreia wasn't talking about the likes of those 4 powerful ancient sith, or the likes of Tulak Hord and Ajunta Pall who she also mentioned?

Because her quote says "an ancient Sith", notice she doesn't even add "Lord" or anything else.

"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys..."

Originally posted by Advent
Because her quote says "an ancient Sith", notice she doesn't even add "Lord" or anything else.

"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys..."

So she's obviously speaking of the ancient sith ability in saber/sword combat. If that's the case I wonder why everyone is downplaying Sadow and Kressh's fighting abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
If that's the case I wonder why everyone is downplaying Sadow and Kressh's fighting abilities.

To win arguments. Duh!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Thon defeated Sith on Ambria, or dark Jedi?


The very same Sith that obliterated all life on the planet with a single force attack against Thon...



"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys..."

Looks like they are kids compared to any Ancient Sith. Either Kreia is pretty biased or the KotoR era somehow sucks... :P

Originally posted by Borbarad
The very same Sith that obliterated all life on the planet with a single force attack against Thon...



"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys..."

Looks like they are kids compared to any Ancient Sith. Either Kreia is pretty biased or the KotoR era somehow sucks... :P

"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."

That was exactly what she said. I think it's pretty clear that she is referring to the top ancient sith - the dark lords, not the minor ones as well. Key words - compared to the prowess of the old Masters.

Very few SW characters can contend with the ancient sith

Originally posted by Adas
"If you were to face an ancient Sith in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."

That was exactly what she said. I think it's pretty clear that she is referring to the top ancient sith - the dark lords, not the minor ones as well.

Given that we saw Sith Council Members being killed by a hand full of Massassi, I still don't see where this is impressive. And the Sith Council Members do qualify as Masters. This is not even talking about the fact that the Kreia is talking about lightsaber confrontation here which is stupid because the Ancient Sith didn't even use lightsabers.

Yet I still don't see how Revan and Malak would be able to defeat Mace and Depa...

Basically, this thread depends on Malak vs. Depa. Whoever can beat the other faster will help his tag team member wipe the floor out of the other.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Given that we saw Sith Council Members being killed by a hand full of Massassi, I still don't see where this is impressive. And the Sith Council Members do qualify as Masters. This is not even talking about the fact that the Kreia is talking about lightsaber confrontation here which is stupid because the Ancient Sith didn't even use lightsabers.

Yet I still don't see how Revan and Malak would be able to defeat Mace and Depa...

Actually Nai, at some point between the settlement on Korriban and the Golden Age, the ancient sith used lightsabers. They switched at some other point because they liked the feel of tearing through flesh.