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GG, Qui-Gon and Kenobi confront Palps in his office. Who will emerge the winner? Oh and this GG is before he had his chest crushed by Mace

sids force-owns them all

He'd probably win with just his saber also.

Sidious picks them up like he did the senate pods and throws them out the window.

Sidious would get owned, General Grievous was capable of taking 5+ Jedi all striking him at once, several of which were Concil Members and of course Aayla Secura too (Sidious wasn't exactly attacked, he killed them all too quick) Plus Kenobi was very strong in ROTS, master of Soresu, and Qui-Gon was also pretty powerful. Sidious dies

lightting frys GG and sids can outduel the other two.

GG's armor is obviously resistent to Electricty, Obi-Wan hits him with an Electro Staff which does nothing. Obi-Wan could last a while, Qui-Gon would likely die, but it would take some time, and a cheap move like Maul did

Ahhh double post

Sidious crushes Grievous with one hand and blasts the other two with force lightning. Together they can most likley hold out, but killing Grievous with crush is the matter of seconds. After that, he will use both hands and overpower them both. That's what I think...

Yup.

Also, if Dooku could punk Kenobi with a choke as badly as he did in ROTS, Sidious could do it even better. Sidious wins. He could do it in a lot of different ways.

Yeah, that's a good point. Sids could flap them all away with a wave of his hand...

I think it would be hilarious to see the trio run in, lightsabers blazing ready to attack Sidious, and he just lifts up his hand and throws them out the window. Well, with Greivous at least.

If they're attacking him with Lightsabers, he won't be able to channel the Force (Crush with one hand out, Lightning with both) the others will simply cut his arms off, or just stab him

They walk into his office and get thrown out the window.

In lightsaber combat, the trio wouldn't work that great together, seeing as how Obi switched forms, and their isn't that much room. Still, it'd be a close match.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
If they're attacking him with Lightsabers, he won't be able to channel the Force (Crush with one hand out, Lightning with both) the others will simply cut his arms off, or just stab him


They won't get close that fast. And Windu couldn't get close to finish Sidious of, and Sidious was lying on the ground, almost underneath Mace...

Obi-Wan's the weak link here since his offensive saber skills suck, so early on in the battle he gets taken out with the Force just like he did on the Invisible Hand. That leaves Grievous and Qui-Gon. Their lightsaber styles won't work well together and Qui-Gon will be to busy trying not to get killed by one of Grievous's lightsabers that he won't be paying attention to Sidious and he will die. Then it's just Grievous left and the battle remained a lightsaber duel Grievous could last a short while, but if Sidious got a chance to use the Force (but he probably won't because he'll be to busy blocking GG's lightsabers to use the Force) then Grievous goes down quick.

Sidious isn't all that powerful, and you're assuming that the Jedi and Grievous will LET him do that, Sidious isn't a God, he has to kill them 1 at a time, he won't be able to protect himself from Lightsabers while using Lightning, and he won't be able to do a full Force Crush (takes a while before it kills em) And when it comes down to Lightsaber Skill, Grievous would destroy him (They all could block the Lightning)

Originally posted by darthsith19
Obi-Wan's the weak link here since his offensive saber skills suck,

Biggest load of shit heard all day? I think so. Qui-Gon is the weak link, unless you're going to say that Darth Maul will beat Obi-Wan in 30 seconds flat.

And, for your information - Soresu is a defensive form, true, but you don't strictly block and block. See: Duel with Grievous. If anything, Kenobi or Grievous are the strongest links. More than likely Kenobi given he's beaten Grievous, and also has the Force (albeit not very good usage). It's ridiculous to think that somehow Qui-Gon is stronger than ROTS Obi-Wan, who would defeat Qui-Gon no problems.

People need to remember, this is Grievous from the Cartoons, the jumpy one

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Sidious isn't all that powerful, and you're assuming that the Jedi and Grievous will LET him do that, Sidious isn't a God, he has to kill them 1 at a time, he won't be able to protect himself from Lightsabers while using Lightning, and he won't be able to do a full Force Crush (takes a while before it kills em) And when it comes down to Lightsaber Skill, Grievous would destroy him (They all could block the Lightning)


He is more powerful than Dooku in the force, who easily got rid of Obi-Wan.

It stopped Mace saber, of course it will stop Qui-Gon's and Obi's. And all he would need to do is send a heavy force push into them. Tell me, who would be able to parry it? No one. He will get them through the force.
Grievous was totally down when MACE used force crush (who is nowhere near as strong as Sidious in the force, or at least not AS strong) and Grievous flew away with his ship. He was scarred for life, and after he was crushed, he fell to the ground and was out from the battle, anyone could have handled him at that moment, at least someone with Sids calibur....


And blocking lightning (which Yoda and Mace had a hard time with) is not going to be easy, and they would definently not be able to run forward while doing it. And Grievous would be crushed easily by Sids powers..

Again, Sidious isn't a God, Dooku got rid of Obi-Wan while Anakin was on the ground incapable of attacking, there are 3 people fighting Sidious. They can stop a Force Push with another Push. They again can all block the Lightning. It would be impossible for him to beat all 3, Force Crush takes time to use, the Cartoon characters are extremely powerful, more so than the real ones, Grievous would be able to keep Sidious at bay with his Sabers, while Gui-Gon and Obi-Wan slashed him up

I know that Sidious isen't a god, however, you don't need to be a god to take down 3 persons...

No, they cannot counter Sidious push with a force push, he is leagues above them in the force. Sure they might be able to counter lightning, but are they strong enough to hold it? And Grievous hasn't got the force, he cannot simply put his lightsaber out and take all the lightning away, jedi uses the force to make the lightning only go into the lightsaber don't they? (I mean, like direct the lightning in that way, instead of having it flying all over themselfs)

So if the cartoon characters can make it fast, that means that it MUST be slow to do it normally? It's just to close his hand, as easy as it is for him to grip people.

Originally posted by Advent
Biggest load of shit heard all day? I think so. Qui-Gon is the weak link, unless you're going to say that Darth Maul will beat Obi-Wan in 30 seconds flat.

And, for your information - Soresu is a defensive form, true, but you don't strictly block and block. See: Duel with Grievous. If anything, Kenobi or Grievous are the strongest links. More than likely Kenobi given he's beaten Grievous, and also has the Force (albeit not very good usage). It's ridiculous to think that somehow Qui-Gon is stronger than ROTS Obi-Wan, who would defeat Qui-Gon no problems.
Blah, blah, blah, what a bunch of bullshit, watch the duel on the Invisible Hand and you'll see that Kenobi's the weak link. Due to his weak offensive skills he won't be able to do shit.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Sidious would get owned, General Grievous was capable of taking 5+ Jedi all striking him at once, several of which were Concil Members and of course Aayla Secura too (Sidious wasn't exactly attacked, he killed them all too quick) Plus Kenobi was very strong in ROTS, master of Soresu, and Qui-Gon was also pretty powerful. Sidious dies

And Palpatine killed 3 Council members in less then 5 seconds.

Qui-Gon is the weak link here. GG could take him with minimal effort, Obi-Wan would beat him but it might take longer. Sidious however is the strongest guy here. If the duo can force Sidious into a saber duel I can see them winning, if not, then Sids just pwns them with the force.

Sidious.

Sidious owns General Grievous in either category (if Obi-Wan can Force push Grievous with a relatively harsh effect, I'd hate to see what Palpatine could do). Obi-Wan follows suit.

Qui-Gon is nearly a non factor.

This is an interesting fight. I would say Sidious would lose though. The Sith Lord is good, but I don't think he can handle his three enemies. Qui-Gon is the weakest link, but I think he'll probably last longer than Fisto, but then die. Sidious would have to use Force powers on Grievous, plus he has to handle Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. I believe Qui-Gon will die, Grievous gets killed by the Force, but I think the sacrifice will be enough for Obi-Wan to prevail.

Despite Sidious being very strong, I can't see him handling all three of them.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Qui-Gon is the weak link here. GG could take him with minimal effort, Obi-Wan would beat him but it might take longer. Sidious however is the strongest guy here. If the duo can force Sidious into a saber duel I can see them winning, if not, then Sids just pwns them with the force.

Lol, sorry. Ignore that post I misread the title.

Qui-Gon is the weak link. He will get killed by Sids early on with minimal effort. However now Sids is left to fight the Soresu master and the robotic jedi killing machine. Obi-Wan might might be able to hold off Sids attacks for a while but he will eventually be killed. But Sids will also have to block the four sabers of GG. Sids is good, but not good enough to take on both GG and Kenobi at once in a lightsaber duel. He will either have to seperate them and kill them one by one or just pwn them with the force.

He won't get the chance to "pwn them with the Force" there's 3 of them, he has to hold off their attacks while channeling his Force Powers, Obi-Wan can obviously last a long time, as he beat Anakin, who could have very well taken Sidious at that time, Qui-Gon was able to fight Darth Maul by himself for sometime, he'll last, and of course Grievous, he has the 4 Lightsabers, there's no way Palpatine can fend off 6.

As to Palpatine taking 3 Council Members down in seconds, they were surprised by the attack, didn't see it coming, and got stabbed, he didn't actually have to fight them, Grievous had to take on 5 at once using only 2 Sabers, while they used Force attacks, and surrounded him

Sidious could lift them all up, and kill them, using only the force. Or fry them. Mace could barely hold off Sidious' lightning, so, these three couldn't. In a lightsaber fight, Sidious would win after a tough fight.

Palpatine is leagues above any of these combatants with the Force. They stand no chance against him in single combat. If he manages to get either of them isolated, they are utterly crushed.

As to your assertion that "Obi-Wan beat Anakin, who could've beat Sidious", Anakin wasn't able to defeat Palpatine at the time of Revenge of the Sith. He would've been able to eventually, but not at the time.

Also, didn't Yoda tell Obi-Wan that: "Strong enough, to defeat Lord Sidious, you are not" The RotS novelization goes so far as to say "you never will", which is true. Palpatine > Obi-Wan. By a mile.

Lastly, Count Dooku (Sidious's inferior) used the Force once on Obi-Wan, and it was sufficient enough to put him out of the fight completely. So, then, tell me why can't Sidious (who is more powerful than Dooku in the Force) do the same, if not faster?

Obi-Wan was more skilled in combat than Grievous. The only time Grievous was close to defeating Obi-Wan is when they engaged in unarmed combat, and Grievous owned him. Sidious - who possesses intricate knowledge of Grievous's capabilities - would not be foolish enough to do that, and would be able to exploit a weakness. He would annihilate Grievous, as well.



You and I saw a different movie, then. The movie I saw had those Jedi Masters aware that Palpatine was Darth Sidious prior to their departure to his office. Being a Sith Lord, they obviously knew that this wasn't a benign enemy.

This point is underlined, as the Jedi ignite their sabers first, meaning they were prepared for a fight.

The point is again underlined when Sidious slowly gets up, ignites his lightsaber, and even tosses off a one-liner, before rushing them.

They were prepared. They were just inferior. Sidious was faster, more agile, and more skilled. Lucas even commented that: "you need to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor".

Anakin's, Dooku's, Obi-Wan's, Qui-Gon's, and Grievous's name don't appear on that list. He won because he was more powerful and smarter.

So, that said:

Palpatine can disable any of these three with his command of the Force. Obi-Wan (Sidious's inferior) disarmed and stunned Grievous (also Sidious's inferior) with a Force push. Dooku (Sidious's inferior - beginning to see a pattern?) used the Force once and put Obi-Wan completely out of the fight.

Qui-Gon's weaker than either of those two. He'd be the first to die. He's no match for Sidious in saber combat or in the Force. A few swings, and he'd be down. Obi-Wan and Grievous follow suit. They are annihilated.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Blah, blah, blah, what a bunch of bullshit, watch the duel on the Invisible Hand and you'll see that Kenobi's the weak link. Due to his weak offensive skills he won't be able to do shit.

Weak offensive skills? You mean the offensive skills he used on General "I beat the shit out of Jedi for minimum wage" Grievous? Let me repeat: Soresu is not block, block, lol ok, block.

By your logic, Sora Bulq is a piece of shit and so is Master Tholme. As well, watch the battle on Mustafar, foolish one. For having "weak offensive" skills why would Kit Fisto wish Obi-Wan was there with them before they entered the office?

Obviously he doesn't suck, your argument, however, does (look, ma, I made a joke).

And somehow Qui-Gon can do a thing? The man who was dropped in 30 seconds flat by Darth Ray Park? That's wonderful.

Lmfao. And quit saying "blah, blah, blah" when I just provided ample proof that tramples yours. The only bullshit brought is from your end. "L0l w4tch R0tS". Yeah, well watch The Phantom Menace. Qui-Gon, even when the script and novelization corroborate the fact that he was fighting with a "ferocity not seen before", and had found a "new reserve of strength", was dropped by Maul in thirty seconds flat.

Now, unless Qui-Gon "Maverick" Jinn can somehow drop Grievous, shut up. Basically, you're implying that ROTS Kenobi would die to Maul within thirty seconds. This is hilarity at best when he lasted longer as a padawan (albeit enraged). Kenobi would smack the shit out of Maul, Qui-Gon - as we already have witnessed - would die.

Quit being a noob. You're wrong, and you have no argument. Obi-Wan > Jinn. Period. My evidence - uh, common sense, logical deduction, the movies. Yours? "Lol Invisible Hand". Acting as if Qui-Gon "Half a minute" Jinn could've done any better.

And before you go onto Obi-Wan's time of fighting Dooku (which is 22 seconds, btw) - you must realize that Count Dooku would tool Darth Maul as well, and definitely Qui-Gon just as fast. Now, we take into account Obi-Wan was able to make Grievous run away after slicing off two of his robotnik hands off. This is Grievous who beat the shit out of six Jedi at once, is more powerful than Asajj, beat Asajj and Durge at the same time, and is known as having "deadly skill", and several other references.

Qui-Gon IS the weakest link. Goodbye.

Originally posted by Escape81
Palpatine is leagues above any of these combatants with the Force. They stand no chance against him in single combat. If he manages to get either of them isolated, they are utterly crushed.

As to your assertion that "Obi-Wan beat Anakin, who could've beat Sidious", Anakin wasn't able to defeat Palpatine at the time of Revenge of the Sith. He would've been able to eventually, but not at the time.

Also, didn't Yoda tell Obi-Wan that: "Strong enough, to defeat Lord Sidious, you are not" The RotS novelization goes so far as to say "you never will", which is true. Palpatine > Obi-Wan. By a mile.

Lastly, Count Dooku (Sidious's inferior) used the Force once on Obi-Wan, and it was sufficient enough to put him out of the fight completely. So, then, tell me why can't Sidious (who is more powerful than Dooku in the Force) do the same, if not faster?

Obi-Wan was more skilled in combat than Grievous. The only time Grievous was close to defeating Obi-Wan is when they engaged in unarmed combat, and Grievous owned him. Sidious - who possesses intricate knowledge of Grievous's capabilities - would not be foolish enough to do that, and would be able to exploit a weakness. He would annihilate Grievous, as well.



You and I saw a different movie, then. The movie I saw had those Jedi Masters aware that Palpatine was Darth Sidious prior to their departure to his office. Being a Sith Lord, they obviously knew that this wasn't a benign enemy.

This point is underlined, as the Jedi ignite their sabers first, meaning they were prepared for a fight.

The point is again underlined when Sidious slowly gets up, ignites his lightsaber, and even tosses off a one-liner, before rushing them.

They were prepared. They were just inferior. Sidious was faster, more agile, and more skilled. Lucas even commented that: "you need to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor".

Anakin's, Dooku's, Obi-Wan's, Qui-Gon's, and Grievous's name don't appear on that list. He won because he was more powerful and smarter.

So, that said:

Palpatine can disable any of these three with his command of the

Force. Obi-Wan (Sidious's inferior) disarmed and stunned Grievous (also Sidious's inferior) with a Force push. Dooku (Sidious's inferior - beginning to see a pattern?) used the Force once and put Obi-Wan completely out of the fight.

Qui-Gon's weaker than either of those two. He'd be the first to die. He's no match for Sidious in saber combat or in the Force. A few swings, and he'd be down. Obi-Wan and Grievous follow suit. They are annihilated.

Ok, I'm going to skip the Yoda/Sidious/Obi-Wan/Anakin first 2 paragraphs, I'm pretty sure somewhere it said Anakin was capable, but whatever

If you notice when Obi-Wan gets brought down by a Force Crush, Anakin is on the ground, he has the ability to use the Power, with 2 other people hitting Palpatine, 1 who is wielding 4 Lightsabers, I don't think he'll be able to do that, especially since I don't think it ever mentions Palpatine having Force Crush/Grip

Actualy Grievous was more skilled in combat, the only reason Obi-Wan won that fight, was 1.) Because he had his Organs Crushed by Mace Windu(This Versus is him before that) 2.)Obi-Wan used the Force to get rid of his Lightsabers

The Jedi Masters did not know for sure, they were going to arrest him, and wern't taking chances of that, it was more of a "Ok, don't make any sudden moves" type thing. I don't know about you, but I'm not expecting some Old dude to pull out a Saber from nowhere, and jump in a Corkscrew at me at a quick speed, and jump in front of me, they were likely spaced out in a "Holy SH**!" type thing. One of them was the Master of Form 1, as well as another top duelist, they didn't even block, that doesn't count as skill

The only real thing he could do without taking the time to get slashed up is Lightning, they all have Lightsabers, they can block it, it becomes a Lightsaber duel, he'll have to focus on Grievous, who is obviously the biggest threat, with his 4 Swords swinging at him, Obi-Wan being a Master of Soresu, could easily last in Lightsaber combat, and since Sidious has to focus on the others, Qui-Gon won't die, Sidious will lose a Lightsaber fight against 6 Lightsabers

Why's that ? It seemed to me as if you were implying that Obi-Wan could either defeat Sidious or give him a run for his money. I'm telling you that he can't do either. Apparently I need to reiterate some simple facts to you:

a. Darth Sidious is more powerful than Count Dooku.

b. Count Dooku managed to fight Obi-Wan while fighting Anakin.

c. Count Dooku used the Force and put Obi-Wan completely out of the fight, with one maneuver.

Now, just in case you missed it, read it again. Count Dooku manhandled Obi-Wan. The only reason Obi-Wan lasted against Dooku for that long is because Dooku was too busy trying to not get owned by Anakin, who was getting stronger as Dooku and Obi-Wan were getting more tired. And then, when Dooku decides it's time to put Obi-Wan out of the fight, he does so, with one Force move.

Now, we've established that Palpatine is more powerful than Dooku in the Force. He can do the same thing with even more damaging effects, and likely - quicker.

So, Obi-Wan can and will be taken out of the fight by Palpatine. Palpatine is far more powerful than Obi-Wan. I hope you understand that, now.



Let's see.

Palpatine can disable Obi-Wan with the Force, who is his biggest threat of the three. General Grievous's lightsabers don't matter. Obi-Wan blocked them all, even overhanded swings by Grievous - who possesses superhuman strength. Sidious is faster and more capable than Obi-Wan (and also has the advantage of far stronger Force powers)

Furthermore, maybe you don't understand. Anakin learned that assault less than a day after his sojourn to the Dark Side. You're telling me that a powerful master such as Sidious doesn't know that feat? You're insane.

Where do you think Dooku learned it from?



a. No. Mace told Obi-Wan that he "has the best chance to stop Grievous" due to the simplicity of his form, the powerful defense it provides, and that Obi-Wan is a master of it.

b. Obi-Wan and Grievous fought blade-to-blade. Don't you forget when Obi-Wan disarmed him twice without the assistance of the Force? Obi-Wan disarmed the other two with the Force.

And there ya go. Sidious is far more powerful than Obi-Wan in the Force. He can disarm Grievous with ease.



The Jedi were armed with the knowledge that he was a Sith Lord. They may not have faced one before, but even Mace knew that Palpatine was likely to be a big threat if he were. They even ignited their lightsabers first, too.

Palpatine took his jolly old time doing it. They were already prepared and in combat stance. They lost because he is simply better than they are.



Um... no. Palpatine is the most powerful Force user in the PT (excluding Yoda). He has mastery of the Force. He has more than just lightning. Furthermore, Yoda (who is capable of superhuman strength in combat) was unable to block Sidious's Force lightning with a lightsaber. It was blasted right out of his hand.



No. Obi-Wan is more skilled than Grievous. We;ve already proven that Grievous's sabers mean jack.



No. He'll obliterate Qui-Gon, disable Obi-Wan easily, and then destroy Grievous.

Originally posted by Advent
Weak offensive skills? You mean the offensive skills he used on General "I beat the shit out of Jedi for minimum wage" Grievous? Let me repeat: Soresu is not block, block, lol ok, block.

By your logic, Sora Bulq is a piece of shit and so is Master Tholme. As well, watch the battle on Mustafar, foolish one. For having "weak offensive" skills why would Kit Fisto wish Obi-Wan was there with them before they entered the office?

Obviously he doesn't suck, your argument, however, does (look, ma, I made a joke).

And somehow Qui-Gon can do a thing? The man who was dropped in 30 seconds flat by Darth Ray Park? That's wonderful.

Lmfao. And quit saying "blah, blah, blah" when I just provided ample proof that tramples yours. The only bullshit brought is from your end. "L0l w4tch R0tS". Yeah, well watch The Phantom Menace. Qui-Gon, even when the script and novelization corroborate the fact that he was fighting with a "ferocity not seen before", and had found a "new reserve of strength", was dropped by Maul in thirty seconds flat.

Now, unless Qui-Gon "Maverick" Jinn can somehow drop Grievous, shut up. Basically, you're implying that ROTS Kenobi would die to Maul within thirty seconds. This is hilarity at best when he lasted longer as a padawan (albeit enraged). Kenobi would smack the shit out of Maul, Qui-Gon - as we already have witnessed - would die.

Quit being a noob. You're wrong, and you have no argument. Obi-Wan > Jinn. Period. My evidence - uh, common sense, logical deduction, the movies. Yours? "Lol Invisible Hand". Acting as if Qui-Gon "Half a minute" Jinn could've done any better.

And before you go onto Obi-Wan's time of fighting Dooku (which is 22 seconds, btw) - you must realize that Count Dooku would tool Darth Maul as well, and definitely Qui-Gon just as fast. Now, we take into account Obi-Wan was able to make Grievous run away after slicing off two of his robotnik hands off. This is Grievous who beat the shit out of six Jedi at once, is more powerful than Asajj, beat Asajj and Durge at the same time, and is known as having "deadly skill", and several other references.

Qui-Gon IS the weakest link. Goodbye.
Wow, what a bunch of bullshit. Obi-Wan used defense on Grievous, not offense. Total bullshit.

Originally posted by Escape81


a. No. Mace told Obi-Wan that he "has the best chance to stop Grievous" due to the simplicity of his form, the powerful defense it provides, and that Obi-Wan is a master of it.

b. Obi-Wan and Grievous fought blade-to-blade. Don't you forget when Obi-Wan disarmed him twice without the assistance of the Force? Obi-Wan disarmed the other two with the Force.

And there ya go. Sidious is far more powerful than Obi-Wan in the Force. He can disarm Grievous with ease.


I agree with everything else you have posted but I think you are missing the point here (or i might be lol). Yes, Obi-Wan was the best equipped to fight GG because of his style. Soresu is the number 1 defencive form and this will be a huge advantage against GG's 4 blades. But Sidious uses a completely different style. He will not be able to block all 4 blades (plus another 2 from Jinn and Kenobi) because he uses an offensive style. Also isnt this GG before he was force crushed by Mace? I dont remember but if it is that is just another large factor playing against Sidious. I agree 100% that Sids is stronger than Kenobi, but this doesnt ensure a victory over Greivous. It is basically saying Sids<Obi-Wan<GG so Sids must be better than GG as well. Doesnt work like that.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Wow, what a bunch of bullshit. Obi-Wan used defense on Grievous, not offense. Total bullshit.

I never said he used just offense, but Soresu is NOTblock, block, lol ok, block. In his fight with Grievous, he's seen attacking, same with his fight with Anakin at parts.

Sadly, the fact of the matter is - you're wrong. Qui-Gon is the weak link. So, your argument = dead. It's also comedic at best when you consider you offer one little statement in comparison to my argument. Then again, what can I expect from someone of your caliber.

Is the bullshit gone now? Good, now, I'm not comign back to this thread so don't bother responding to this with more bullshit cause it'd be a watse of all of our time as well as a watse of thread space.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Is the bullshit gone now?

Well, as long as your still posting - no.



Too late.



Okay, so basically you're waving the white flag because I decimated your argument and now you can't think of anyway to retort properly because I'm right?

Alright. I accept. And it's ridiculous to claim "wasting thread space" when these forums aren't even that important, or ridiculous when you consider almost every thread has off topic posting, but actually - my post was on topic, we're talking about Qui-Gon being the weak link, you agreeing that I'm right, and so on.

RELEVANCE? ZERO LOLOL.

Originally posted by Escape81
Why's that ? It seemed to me as if you were implying that Obi-Wan could either defeat Sidious or give him a run for his money. I'm telling you that he can't do either. Apparently I need to reiterate some simple facts to you:

a. Darth Sidious is more powerful than Count Dooku.

b. Count Dooku managed to fight Obi-Wan while fighting Anakin.

c. Count Dooku used the Force and put Obi-Wan completely out of the fight, with one maneuver.

Now, just in case you missed it, read it again. Count Dooku manhandled Obi-Wan. The only reason Obi-Wan lasted against Dooku for that long is because Dooku was too busy trying to not get owned by Anakin, who was getting stronger as Dooku and Obi-Wan were getting more tired. And then, when Dooku decides it's time to put Obi-Wan out of the fight, he does so, with one Force move.

Now, we've established that Palpatine is more powerful than Dooku in the Force. He can do the same thing with even more damaging effects, and likely - quicker.

So, Obi-Wan can and will be taken out of the fight by Palpatine. Palpatine is far more powerful than Obi-Wan. I hope you understand that, now.



Let's see.

Palpatine can disable Obi-Wan with the Force, who is his biggest threat of the three. General Grievous's lightsabers don't matter. Obi-Wan blocked them all, even overhanded swings by Grievous - who possesses superhuman strength. Sidious is faster and more capable than Obi-Wan (and also has the advantage of far stronger Force powers)

Furthermore, maybe you don't understand. Anakin learned that assault less than a day after his sojourn to the Dark Side. You're telling me that a powerful master such as Sidious doesn't know that feat? You're insane.

Where do you think Dooku learned it from?



a. No. Mace told Obi-Wan that he "has the best chance to stop Grievous" due to the simplicity of his form, the powerful defense it provides, and that Obi-Wan is a master of it.

b. Obi-Wan and Grievous fought blade-to-blade. Don't you forget when Obi-Wan disarmed him twice without the assistance of the Force? Obi-Wan disarmed the other two with the Force.

And there ya go. Sidious is far more powerful than Obi-Wan in the Force. He can disarm Grievous with ease.



The Jedi were armed with the knowledge that he was a Sith Lord. They may not have faced one before, but even Mace knew that Palpatine was likely to be a big threat if he were. They even ignited their lightsabers first, too.

Palpatine took his jolly old time doing it. They were already prepared and in combat stance. They lost because he is simply better than they are.



Um... no. Palpatine is the most powerful Force user in the PT (excluding Yoda). He has mastery of the Force. He has more than just lightning. Furthermore, Yoda (who is capable of superhuman strength in combat) was unable to block Sidious's Force lightning with a lightsaber. It was blasted right out of his hand.



No. Obi-Wan is more skilled than Grievous. We;ve already proven that Grievous's sabers mean jack.



No. He'll obliterate Qui-Gon, disable Obi-Wan easily, and then destroy Grievous.

Obi-Wan could last a while, Soresu gives him that advantage, he can easily block Lightning as shown in AOTC. Yes, he was fighting Anakin, but he didn't "manhandle" Obi-Wan till Anakin was on the ground, with another person beating on you, you can't use the Deadly Force Powers without dangerous risks. As said, Sidious may be stronger, but while fighting 3 people at once, he will need to keep the other 2 off, not an easy task. I never doubted that Sidious was stronger, I pointed out that he would just last against him, with the other 2 beating on him

What makes you think Sidious will take the biggest threat down first? In the battle with the other 4, he took the weak ones down, not Mace, and he would obviously want to take Grievous down, as this is the Powerful Acrobatic one that fought 5 Jedi with only 2 Sabers, without taking a hit

Sidious as far as I know, never was shown using Force Crush or Grip, differant Powers are known by differant users. Where did Mace learn his from? They learned them on their own I'm sure

Yes, I know about the Lightsaber thing, but Obi-Wan would be destroyed by this Grievous, who moved incredibly quick, with Reflexes better than a Jedis

You do realise that Obi-Wan was straining to do that Force Push that did him in, Sidious again can not pull off dangerous Powers unless he wants to get Sliced open by one of the 6 Flying Lightsabers

Yes Sidious was better than them all, cause we actually got to see them fight, it was just bad screening on Lucas' part, no matter how skilled you are, 1 stab won't kill you if you are, unless you want to say he just beat weak losers, then his potential wasn't realised. Since Lucas' bad directing is what obviously caused this, I'll go with the Theory that they were in a "OH SH**!" mode

You do realise that Yoda uses a tiny Lightsaber, and is himself small, Obi-Wan casually let his Lightsaber absorb Dooku's in AOTC(and yes, Sidious is more powerful, Obi-Wan might actually have to try)

Obi-Wan is not more skilled, as Grievous knows all forms of Lightsaber combat, has Robotic Circuitry telling his brain what to do, and has 4 Arms. Again, the reason he lost was because of that Lung damage (and more crap on Lucas' part, but that's not Canonical)

Your arguements are all based like they're fighting 1 on 1, which they arn't this is 3 on 1 at one time, Sidious is going to be forced into Saber combat, where he will lose, the only one he MIGHT kill is Qui-Gon. Without the ability to channel his Force Powers through his arms, he can't use them.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Obi-Wan could last a while, Soresu gives him that advantage,

Explain, if you will, why Obi-Wan was only able to clash blades for a whopping 22 seconds in total (13 seconds if you take off talking) with Dooku before getting taken out by the Force with ease?

Dooku knocked down Anakin, 1 Force Crush later, he gets flown, and a ramp gets thrown on him. Soresu won't protect from that, but won't need to when we're talking about a 3 vs 1 fight

Sidious lifted up 3 senate pods with minimum apparent difficulty. He could throw them all out the window. Greivous might get incredibly lucky and not be killed instantly, but, he'll be out of the fight. Sidious wins. Game ovah.

You've yet to indicate how. Obi-Wan's sole strength is his defensive combat style. Yet, as I told you, Dooku plowed right through it the moment he used the Force.



Anakin was the threat. Obi-Wan was not. Dooku wasn't even giving his full attention to Obi-Wan, as he was trying his hardest to not get owned by Anakin's powerful assaults.



Go back and look at the scene again. Dooku kicked Anakin back, while tossing Obi-Wan across the room. Obi-Wan was already unconscious, but Dooku dropped the walkway on him to make sure he stayed that way.

He handled them both simultaneously in that brief moment.



Dooku attacked Obi-Wan at the exact moment that he kicked Anakin out of the fight. He handled them both during that brief moment. And it should be noted that Anakin > Obi-Wan and Anakin > Grievous. And Dooku managed to handle that for a little while.



Excuse me? Not an easy task? Qui-Gon isn't even a factor in this duel. Sidious would obliterate him either with the Force or with a few saber swings. Obi-Wan and Grievous don't have a chance when Sidious uses the Force.



Alright, I have to go through this again.

Obi-Wan is the most powerful opponent here that Sidious has to face. We've seen that Dooku (Sidious's inferior) put Obi-Wan out of the fight with a single Force-based assault. Sidious can thusly do the same, and even quicker.

Qui-Gon and Grievous are no match for him - not even together.



Because, unfortunately, Obi-Wan is the most powerful of these three. Grievous can't use the Force at all. Sidious would most likely take priority and put those two out of the fight. Then he'd go and pwn Grievous.



Krieger, Sidious is the most powerful and experienced Dark Side user that we've seen in the movies. It is only logical that he knows all of the assaults that his apprentices (y'know, the guys who learn from him) know.

For you to say that he didn't know them is complete bull.



No. Grievous's reflexes are better than those of a human. Obi-Wan and Jedi like him can use the Force to enhance their reflexes, strength, and speed.

The only time that Grievous was winning was when he engaged Obi-Wan in unarmed combat.



I'm beginning to wonder where your sense of logic is.

Palpatine is far more powerful than Obi-Wan in the Force. What strains Obi-Wan won't strain Sidious, who lifted gigantic repulsorpods with ease.

Face it. Sidious > Obi-Wan (in everything) by a mile.



You can think what you want. They lost because they sucked compared to him and Mace.



Yoda is capable of superhuman strength that puts even Grievous to shame. He is able to break all of the saber locks against Dooku, who is capable of blocking overhanded swings by Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously with one hand.

And Sidious blasted his lightsaber from his hand.



The lung damage had nothing to do with it. Grievous wasn't running out of breath.

He lost because the movies showed that Obi-Wan was the more skilled swordsman.



Sidious will kill Qui-Gon. Then he will kill Obi-Wan and Grievous.

Originally posted by Escape81
You've yet to indicate how. Obi-Wan's sole strength is his defensive combat style. Yet, as I told you, Dooku plowed right through it the moment he used the Force.



Anakin was the threat. Obi-Wan was not. Dooku wasn't even giving his full attention to Obi-Wan, as he was trying his hardest to not get owned by Anakin's powerful assaults.



Go back and look at the scene again. Dooku kicked Anakin back, while tossing Obi-Wan across the room. Obi-Wan was already unconscious, but Dooku dropped the walkway on him to make sure he stayed that way.

He handled them both simultaneously in that brief moment.



Dooku attacked Obi-Wan at the exact moment that he kicked Anakin out of the fight. He handled them both during that brief moment. And it should be noted that Anakin > Obi-Wan and Anakin > Grievous. And Dooku managed to handle that for a little while.



Excuse me? Not an easy task? Qui-Gon isn't even a factor in this duel. Sidious would obliterate him either with the Force or with a few saber swings. Obi-Wan and Grievous don't have a chance when Sidious uses the Force.



Alright, I have to go through this again.

Obi-Wan is the most powerful opponent here that Sidious has to face. We've seen that Dooku (Sidious's inferior) put Obi-Wan out of the fight with a single Force-based assault. Sidious can thusly do the same, and even quicker.

Qui-Gon and Grievous are no match for him - not even together.



Because, unfortunately, Obi-Wan is the most powerful of these three. Grievous can't use the Force at all. Sidious would most likely take priority and put those two out of the fight. Then he'd go and pwn Grievous.



Krieger, Sidious is the most powerful and experienced Dark Side user that we've seen in the movies. It is only logical that he knows all of the assaults that his apprentices (y'know, the guys who learn from him) know.

For you to say that he didn't know them is complete bull.



No. Grievous's reflexes are better than those of a human. Obi-Wan and Jedi like him can use the Force to enhance their reflexes, strength, and speed.

The only time that Grievous was winning was when he engaged Obi-Wan in unarmed combat.



I'm beginning to wonder where your sense of logic is.

Palpatine is far more powerful than Obi-Wan in the Force. What strains Obi-Wan won't strain Sidious, who lifted gigantic repulsorpods with ease.

Face it. Sidious > Obi-Wan (in everything) by a mile.



You can think what you want. They lost because they sucked compared to him and Mace.



Yoda is capable of superhuman strength that puts even Grievous to shame. He is able to break all of the saber locks against Dooku, who is capable of blocking overhanded swings by Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously with one hand.

And Sidious blasted his lightsaber from his hand.



The lung damage had nothing to do with it. Grievous wasn't running out of breath.

He lost because the movies showed that Obi-Wan was the more skilled swordsman.



Sidious will kill Qui-Gon. Then he will kill Obi-Wan and Grievous.

Again, you're basing this on 1 vs 1 fights, not 3 vs 1

I say again, Obi-Wan won't have to worry about Palpatine using the Force, with 2 other people beating on Palpatine, Grievous using extremely fast Lightsaber moves, with all 4, and Qui-Gon doing wide slashes at Palpatine, I don't think he'll be able to, since all of the Dark Side powers require your arms to be out

..... Yes Obi-Wan was not the big threat, but he had to kick Anakin down in order for him to do the full move, good luck with Palpatine doing that to Grievous, if you notice, Obi-Wan was not knocked out UNTIL he threw him onto the wall, and if this is inside of Palpatines Office, there is a low chance of him being able to throw him onto anything that will knock him out.

You're failing to realise that he won't get a chance to use his Force attacks, Qui-Gon won't die unless Palpatine wants to get sliced up by the other 2

As said, Obi-Wan won't be taken out by a Crush, as there is nothing to throw him at to knock him out

Qui-Gon is a very capable Swordsmen, he was on par with Mace during TPM. Grievous has 4 Sabers, this is an enclosed area, there won't be enough force on anything to knock the sabers from him, and again remember that this is Grievous BEFORE he gets Crushed by Mace, which got rid of his Acrobatics/Speed that he used to kill the Jedi, I hope you realise in the battle of Hypori, that version of him beat 5 Jedi while only using 2 Sabers, while they all used Force attacks that he EASILY dodged or Blocked

Obi-Wan may have beat the Weakened Grievous, but that was because of his Defensive Style, Palpatine uses Juyo/Ataru, Ataru is a nono against Grievous, as he can block the Slashes and go faster than the Jedi, not to mention it's an Offensive Style, as is Juyo, Grievous is likely to beat him in Lightsaber combat. Obi-Wan isn't exactly the biggest threat, as Non-Weakened Grievous would kill Obi-Wan

Look he may know Grip or not, the move takes time to do, time he doesn't have when facing 3 enemies, Grievous who knows all the Lightsaber Styles, Obi-Wan master of Soresu, and Qui-Gon a master of Ataru, all attacking him

Grievous was much faster than the Jedi he was facing on Hypori, he obviously has better Reflexes

Yes Sidious is more powerful than Obi-Wan, but this is NOT a 1 vs 1 fight, Obi-Wan brought down a giant (don't know what, but he used it to crush the 4 Bodyguard droids) metal box with ease. I never doubted that Sidious was more powerful AGAIN, but I said he would last, 3 Opponents don't give him the time to do Force attacks

Yes, it really showed his skill, when the Jedi held their Lightsabers opposite of where he was attacking, and didn't try to block And again, unless you want to admit they were at Youngling level, I suggest you go with the Theory of they were in a "OH SH**!" mode. Skill would be killing them in a few moves, 1 obvious stab is just bad directing

Yoda's hand was hit by the Lightning, that's why he lost his Saber, it had nothing to do with the Power of the Lightning, all of them can block it from a Distance, and up close, it isn't smart for him to do that, as said countless times, there are 3, count them, THREE! People, hitting Palpatine.

Yes the damage led to his defeat, his Internal Organs were damaged, probably his Armor too, he couldn't do the Acrobatics, and match the Speed he had before at Hypori, Obi-Wan would be destroyed by him, it would be like facing a Bigger version of Yoda, wielding 4 Lightsabers. His Defence was all that was needed, Grievous was weakened to the point of Plain Lightsaber skill(though I think he should have just had 3 Sabers lock Obi-Wan's and stabbed him with the fourth, but hey, Obi-Wan had to live, thank you Lucas)

Qui-Gon MIGHT die, if Palpatine gets the chance to attack him with the Force, or have a lucky stab

Tell that to AotC Obi-Wan and Anakin. Oh, wait. Didn't Count Dooku own them? Why, yes he did.

Didn't Darth Maul put TPM Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan on the defensive? Why, yes he did. Maul lost only because of his arrogance.

Didn't RotS Anakin and Obi-Wan have a hard time beating Dooku? Why, yes they did. Why did Dooku lose again? Dooku only lost because he faced an opponent who - as the fight progressed - grew more powerful than him.

The point ultimately being that numbers don't always decide the outcome of a fight. Unfortunately for the trio, none of them are as powerful as Sidious. Far from it. So they won't have the victory that Anakin had when he battled Dooku in Revenge of the Sith.



Who says that they are already on top of him? For all you know, they could start out 20 - 50 feet away. Who says that they're going to be in arm's length of Palpatine?

Furthermore, Dooku fought off Obi-Wan and Anakin (who is more powerful than Dooku) simultaneously. He choked Obi-Wan while kicking Anakin off-screen, thus proving that he can use the Force in such a situation.

Then, we have Sidious - who is more powerful than Dooku and Anakin. If Dooku can fight off Obi-Wan and a more powerful opponent, and put Obi-Wan out of the fight with such ease - Sidious can as well.



The point is: Dooku was able to battle Anakin (who is more powerful than him) while disabling Obi-Wan. At the same time. Sidious will put Obi-Wan out of the fight.

Furthermore, who says he's going to kick Grievous? He could kick Qui-Gon. Or he could blast them both apart with the Force. Force push them both?



Obi-Wan was powerless the moment that Dooku used the Force on him. Furthermore, Palpatine's office is full of crap for Palpatine to throw at them. We see that Palpatine is capable of lifting three Senate pods simultaneously with ease. He can easily lift anything in the office - or any of the combatants.



Oh yeah? If that were the case, the moment Dooku attempted to attack Obi-Wan, Anakin would have owned his ass. But guess what ? It didn't happen.



Palpatine can rip the chairs, the artifacts, the desks, and every other object to batter the hell out of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and keep Grievous busy.



Guess that means Maul is on par with Mace too, then, right? Oh yeah... Doesn't mean a thing. Sidious > Maul. Maul > Qui-Gon - which means Sidious > Qui-Gon.



The four sabers mean jack. Obi-Wan tore right through them, when they were hitting at twenty strikes per second. Sidious would do the same thing. Especially given that Sidious is faster than Obi-Wan, and contains intricate knowledge of General Grievous and his tactics.



Oh, really? Then I guess Grievous would own Yoda too, then.

Sidious uses elements of all lightsaber forms. To top it off, he actively uses his Force powers as well.



No, I'm pointing out the stupidity of your opinion:

Dooku and Anakin know Force grip but Sidious does not.

Let's see:

Sidious = most powerful/experienced Dark Side user in the PT and OT.

Anakin = novice Dark Side user.

Dooku = intermidate Dark Side user.

Hmm.... hmm... I wonder if that means that Sidious would know the same assaults and more... oh, yeah. He does.



Mace owned him and so did Obi-Wan. Point being: they don't mean everything.



Obi-Wan dropped the metal crate. He didn't pick it up and drop it, he just destroyed the restraints keeping it in the air. Sidious > Obi-Wan.



Lucas said that those three died easily because: "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor"

Meaning: Sidious > Tinn, Fisto, and Kolar.



Um, no. The lightning hit the blade and knocked ito ut of his hands.

Oh, and how are they going to hit Palpatine while blocking the lightning?



Nope. Dooku, Grievous's teacher, says that Grievous shouldn't fight unless he has fear and surprise on his side. Sorry to tell you, but Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Dooku, Anakin, and Palpatine are all more powerful than Grievous.



Nope, they'll all die.

Originally posted by Escape81
Tell that to AotC Obi-Wan and Anakin. Oh, wait. Didn't Count Dooku own them? Why, yes he did.

Didn't Darth Maul put TPM Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan on the defensive? Why, yes he did. Maul lost only because of his arrogance.

Didn't RotS Anakin and Obi-Wan have a hard time beating Dooku? Why, yes they did. Why did Dooku lose again? Dooku only lost because he faced an opponent who - as the fight progressed - grew more powerful than him.

The point ultimately being that numbers don't always decide the outcome of a fight. Unfortunately for the trio, none of them are as powerful as Sidious. Far from it. So they won't have the victory that Anakin had when he battled Dooku in Revenge of the Sith.



Who says that they are already on top of him? For all you know, they could start out 20 - 50 feet away. Who says that they're going to be in arm's length of Palpatine?

Furthermore, Dooku fought off Obi-Wan and Anakin (who is more powerful than Dooku) simultaneously. He choked Obi-Wan while kicking Anakin off-screen, thus proving that he can use the Force in such a situation.

Then, we have Sidious - who is more powerful than Dooku and Anakin. If Dooku can fight off Obi-Wan and a more powerful opponent, and put Obi-Wan out of the fight with such ease - Sidious can as well.



The point is: Dooku was able to battle Anakin (who is more powerful than him) while disabling Obi-Wan. At the same time. Sidious will put Obi-Wan out of the fight.

Furthermore, who says he's going to kick Grievous? He could kick Qui-Gon. Or he could blast them both apart with the Force. Force push them both?



Obi-Wan was powerless the moment that Dooku used the Force on him. Furthermore, Palpatine's office is full of crap for Palpatine to throw at them. We see that Palpatine is capable of lifting three Senate pods simultaneously with ease. He can easily lift anything in the office - or any of the combatants.



Oh yeah? If that were the case, the moment Dooku attempted to attack Obi-Wan, Anakin would have owned his ass. But guess what ? It didn't happen.



Palpatine can rip the chairs, the artifacts, the desks, and every other object to batter the hell out of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and keep Grievous busy.



Guess that means Maul is on par with Mace too, then, right? Oh yeah... Doesn't mean a thing. Sidious > Maul. Maul > Qui-Gon - which means Sidious > Qui-Gon.



The four sabers mean jack. Obi-Wan tore right through them, when they were hitting at twenty strikes per second. Sidious would do the same thing. Especially given that Sidious is faster than Obi-Wan, and contains intricate knowledge of General Grievous and his tactics.



Oh, really? Then I guess Grievous would own Yoda too, then.

Sidious uses elements of all lightsaber forms. To top it off, he actively uses his Force powers as well.



No, I'm pointing out the stupidity of your opinion:

Dooku and Anakin know Force grip but Sidious does not.

Let's see:

Sidious = most powerful/experienced Dark Side user in the PT and OT.

Anakin = novice Dark Side user.

Dooku = intermidate Dark Side user.

Hmm.... hmm... I wonder if that means that Sidious would know the same assaults and more... oh, yeah. He does.



Mace owned him and so did Obi-Wan. Point being: they don't mean everything.



Obi-Wan dropped the metal crate. He didn't pick it up and drop it, he just destroyed the restraints keeping it in the air. Sidious > Obi-Wan.



Lucas said that those three died easily because: "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor"

Meaning: Sidious > Tinn, Fisto, and Kolar.



Um, no. The lightning hit the blade and knocked ito ut of his hands.

Oh, and how are they going to hit Palpatine while blocking the lightning?



Nope. Dooku, Grievous's teacher, says that Grievous shouldn't fight unless he has fear and surprise on his side. Sorry to tell you, but Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Dooku, Anakin, and Palpatine are all more powerful than Grievous.



Nope, they'll all die.

To start, you're not reading what I'm saying correctly. My "stupid opinion" is based on the knowledge of what these Jedi did, and beat using real terms, not 1 vs 1 who is more powerful than who

AoTC Obi-wan was not as good as even Qui-Gon at the time, AoTC Anakin was probably close to TPM Obi-Wan

Yes Anakin somehow grew more Powerful than Dooku in the 30-40 second fight 0.o. Dooku lost to Anakin because his Shien's power was knocking back his Light Makashiattacks, and in the Novel, forced Dooku's Lightsaber onto his shoulder. It had nothing to do with power, it was Lightsaber skill, and Anakin grabbing Dooku's arms

In this case numbers do decide, as it is an Enclosed Enviroment, and all of them can block his powers(unless Grievous get's Gripped, but Palpatine won't get a complete one in, the other 2 will run up, kill him)

I never said they were starting up-close, but they would BECOME up close, someone said this was Palpatines Office battle, but instead of Mace+3 Goons, these 3 guys

Yes, he did kick Anakin off-screen, but he is not capable of doing Lightsaber Combat while using one hand to hold someone in a Crush/Grip, Sidious can't do a complete one, which would take a few seconds too long. Even if Sidious could do that, how would he knock him out? How would he trap him? The room isn't as big and hard as the Invisible Hand

He wasn't fighting Anakin while he threw Obi-Wan, he kicked him down, and then completed the process, Fighting would be engaging in Lightsaber combat. This does not prove ANYTHING, except that Dooku can kick someone back, and use the Force to throw someone across the room

That wasn't exactly a serious comment about kicking Grievous, but whatever. What we were talking about there was Sidious holding Obi-Wan in a Grip, he can definately blast them apart with the Force while he holds his Lightsaber in 1 Hand, and "holds" Obi-Wan in the other. Big deal if he kicks Qui-Gon, there's still the problem of General Grievous, and his 4 Lightsabers of doom slashing Palpatine to bits, since he can no longer defend himself after that

Yes, Palpatine has loads of stuff to throw at them, that won't effect Grievous, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan maybe, while he's throwing those around and missing, Grievous cuts him up, since again we have a situation where Palpatine can't defend himself

Actually yes, Maul WAS on Par with Mace during TPM, but seeing as neither he nor Qui-gon lived till ROTS, Maul advanced beyond that. You seem to still think that I said/think that any of them alone were more powerful than Sidious, I don't and never have, I am thinking about this, as them in a TEAM, singular power makes no differance

Yes, the 4 Sabers mean a lot, he has to somehow block all of those, while using the Force to keep both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon off, or even Grievous himself, when Expert Swordsmen are fighting you at incredible speed, the Dark Side attacks are not usable till they all get seperated, several feet away from him

Grievous could stand against Yoda in his Non-Weakened state, seeing as Yoda doesn't use Force Grip, which finally screwed Grievous over for life, Yoda could not match him for Saber skill, Grievous at that time was like a bigger, stronger, 4 armed version of Yoda without the Force

Look, as said, he is never shown to use it, it DOESN'T matter, even if he does have the ability, he won't be able to use it long enough to disable/Kill one of them

So you're admitting they're as good as a Padawan. Yes Lucas said you had to be a Mace or Yoda to BEAT him, lasting against his attacks is a COMPLETELY differant story. I guess you classify skill as not moving your Lightsaber to block, and just stand there looking at your enemy, as those Jedi did, it had NOTHING to do with skill, and thus, to make up for Lucas crap, I say they were in "OH SH**! mode

Hand, Lightsaber, whoopty doo, he was about 3 feet away, with a short saber, and himself being small, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Grievous can all block it in a similar fashion as to how Mace did, or Obi-Wan did in AOTC

I'm pretty sure I was talking about AFTER they get close, when the Lightning is useless, and even far away, if they seperate, he can only hit 1 or 2 with it, while the other hits him

Yes, he did say that, Grievous can still pull of surprise, he's in acrobatic super speed mode, and he has 2 other friends with him, yes they are more powerful in terms of the Force, but Grievous beats several of them in this form, with Lightsaber skill, he was shown to resist Force attacks, usually dodging them, with ease. Grievous ALONE can not beat Palpatine(maybe, Grievous might be able to pull it off himself as long as he doesn't get Force Crushed)

You're basing arguements off of a differant Grievous, and 1 on 1 fighting, the numbers count here, only 1 of them MIGHT die, it will be either Obi-Wan(with a lucky Force attack)or Qui-Gon(with a Lightsaber strike)

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
In this case numbers do decide, as it is an Enclosed Enviroment,

Isn't this the same place where Sidious killed three Jedi in a matter of seconds? So, as it seems, numbers mean jack shit really. It only means that Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Grievous won't mesh well together trying to attack Sidious at once because of the limited space.



Prove that Grievous can block his powers, which he can't even block a Force push. Prove that Obi-Wan can block his powers, when he couldn't even block Dooku's attacks twice (one Force push, and then a lift up, and toss). Prove Qui-Gon can block his powers.

Now, if you're saying "l0l we s4w lightn1ng bl0cked by OB1", I'll ask why Sora Bulq can't block lightning:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8594/dookusoraconfrontln2.th.jpg

Obviously this means not everyone can block it. And it gives no reason to suggest Qui-Gon actually can. In any case, Grievous can't block shit. Obi-Wan only fought Dooku for a whopping 22 seconds total (13 seconds if you take out time for talking) while Anakin was with him. And Qui-Gon was dropped in 30 seconds flat by Darth Maul, even while fighting with a "new reserve of strength", and "a ferocity not seen before" (script AND novel).

I'm inclined to believe all he has to do is take out Grievous with the Force, and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan will be like a joke. Given Obi-Wan's history of getting tooled by the Force, and Jinn's history of getting owned by a Sith apprentice in 30 seconds.

well the first 1 in the trio who is gonna go down is either qui gon or GG,
obi vs GG in rots, hmm a simple push by obiwan sent GG flying into the ceiling, sidious is far stronger than obi wan so GG goes down, and qui gons lightsaber style sucks

Originally posted by Advent
Isn't this the same place where Sidious killed three Jedi in a matter of seconds? So, as it seems, numbers mean jack shit really. It only means that Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Grievous won't mesh well together trying to attack Sidious at once because of the limited space.



Prove that Grievous can block his powers, which he can't even block a Force push. Prove that Obi-Wan can block his powers, when he couldn't even block Dooku's attacks twice (one Force push, and then a lift up, and toss). Prove Qui-Gon can block his powers.

Now, if you're saying "l0l we s4w lightn1ng bl0cked by OB1", I'll ask why Sora Bulq can't block lightning:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8594/dookusoraconfrontln2.th.jpg

Obviously this means not everyone can block it. And it gives no reason to suggest Qui-Gon actually can. In any case, Grievous can't block shit. Obi-Wan only fought Dooku for a whopping 22 seconds total (13 seconds if you take out time for talking) while Anakin was with him. And Qui-Gon was dropped in 30 seconds flat by Darth Maul, even while fighting with a "new reserve of strength", and "a ferocity not seen before" (script AND novel).

I'm inclined to believe all he has to do is take out Grievous with the Force, and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan will be like a joke. Given Obi-Wan's history of getting tooled by the Force, and Jinn's history of getting owned by a Sith apprentice in 30 seconds.

Yes, he did mow down 3 Jedi in a matter of seconds, none of them can compare to this Grievous, plus there's Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, more powerful than those Jedi, and more skilled. I love how no one is addressing how they didn't even TRY to block his attacks

Again, this is Grievous before getting owned by Mace, in the Cartoon series he was shown to dodge Force Pushes with EASE.

I was talking about Lightning when I siad powers..., and if he wants to use a complete Grip, he can get owned by the other 2

I'm glad you try to discredit me by using a 'quote' in leet You really should be a lawyer. I'm not sure what your point is? The guy didn't block it, doesn't mean he can't, Obi-Wan is one of the top 5 Strongest Jedi, Qui-Gon might be in the top 10, not sure, but he could block it, the only chance to use Lightning would be right at the start, while there is plenty of distance between them, once they encircle him, he won't have a chance to use it on all of them, he'd get cut up. At that distance, Qui-Gon will be able to block the Lightning, see it coming. It's not a real trick, put up Lightsaber, have it absorb/reflect Lightning, not some big Jedi secret power

Grievous would probably DODGE it, and then put up his Lightsabers in defence.

Qui-Gon was stated as losing so easily because his Ataru needed room he didn't have in that chamber, plus Darth Maul used a cheap move with his Saberstaff (yes, Palpatine would use cheap attacks, but not going to be so easy knocking Qui-gon's head up with a normal saber)

Grips take TIME to kill a person, and Lightning won't work as already stated, while he's gripping Grievous, the other 2 can run up and kill Palpatine

You must take into account that it was Ki-Adi Mundi, who is lightyears lesser than Sidious in the force, and the fact that if he used a to big push he could have wounded his friends. Also, did you not see how much effort Grievous took in trying to dodge it? Jumped away about 50 meters. Dooku also tripped him by grabbing his leg with the force, no way for him to block that, neither can the two other jedi. There is no point in them trying to fight someone with Sidious calibur off with the force, and the only way for them to counter being lifted up from the ground and chocked with the force, is using the force back, which Obi (the most capable of all of them) could not even do against Dooku...

Originally posted by kamikz
You must take into account that it was Ki-Adi Mundi, who is lightyears lesser than Sidious in the force, and the fact that if he used a to big push he could have wounded his friends. Also, did you not see how much effort Grievous took in trying to dodge it? Jumped away about 50 meters. Dooku also tripped him by grabbing his leg with the force, no way for him to block that, neither can the two other jedi. There is no point in them trying to fight someone with Sidious calibur off with the force, and the only way for them to counter being lifted up from the ground and chocked with the force, is using the force back, which Obi (the most capable of all of them) could not even do against Dooku...

Lightyears.....Yes millions of miles lesser

He wouldn't have wounded the other Jedi, he can direct what it hits, Grievous dodged it, he saw it coming. Grievous was much better after that training lesson with Grievous, we're talking about Grievous at his prime, right before Mace crushed him, he dodged a bunch of Force attacks by Shaak Ti and her 2 Jedi friends.

They don't have to fight him with the Force, only Lightsabers, the only chance he will be able to attack ALL of them with the Force is at the start of the fight with Lightning, as they block all of that with their Lightsabers, they get close, encircle him, it comes to a Lightsaber duel, he can't beat them all, blocking 6 Lightsabers all around him would be impossible for him. Grip will only work on 1-2 people, in that time, he's vulnerable, he dies.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Yes, he did mow down 3 Jedi in a matter of seconds, none of them can compare to this Grievous,

What the hell does Grievous have to do with me defeating your point? And I'm glad you don't address the original point which is what you said along the lines of "numbers do decide in enclosed area", obviously they don't as we see in ROTS. And there's always the fact that Grievous' swinging a couple sabers around at once, and droid bulk won't mesh well with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.



Qui-Gon is a laugh compared to Sidious. Maul whooped his ass in thirty seconds flat. Obi-Wan? Owned in 13 seconds by Count Dooku. Or if you do want to add the time spent talking, it's a whopping 22 seconds.

Grievous? Uh, he was owned by a Force crush by Windu which took about 1 second to apply.



Maybe because they couldn't? The obvious is that Sidious' speed tramples that of most other Jedi, and his skill topples them as well. And by the way, Kit Fisto did actually block. Don't believe it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=js04mjPvGeE

^
Believe it, noob.

Check through from 45 seconds to 49 seconds. Kit Fisto blocks like three or four times. So, what you were making up again? Ah, that's right - bullshit. Agen, Tinn, and Fisto just can't compare that's why they died in seconds. And neither can Qui-Gon, or Obi-Wan. Which is why they were run through in half a minute and under.



And? In the cartoon Mace Windu can jump several miles, punch out battle droids with his bare hands, Yoda can lift a f*cking gun the size of an two floor building on his back, and so on. Why doesn't Grievous dodge that wonderful Force push by Obi-Wan? Even in saber combat, one can use Force powers as demonstrated by Dooku, and Obi-Wan.

By the way, Shaak Ti was able to Force push him through an entire wall. And then there's always the fact Grievous got owned by a train. Shaak Ti tied his cape, and he flew away with the train. Great perception Grievous, I'm glad he's so aware.



So, you were referring to a single power when you were used a plural word? Good going, genius. I can see you acheived an A+ in English.



Yes, because Qui-Gon is going to be able to help any. You fail to realize that this is indeed a small environment, ergo Grievous' big ass and sabers swinging around will not mesh well with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan swinging at the same time. All he has to do is just lift Grievous up, and toss him out the window a la Dooku. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are thus dead, because they cannot compare.



That it's not as simple as lift up lightsaber, and block perhaps? As you seem to keep implying. Obviously you cannot always block it.



Yes, because he's in the "Top 10" he'll always be able to block lightning. Where's this logic coming from again? Your ass? Alright. The point is that you cannot always block lightning. Simple as that. To enforce this, I could just as easily say Sidious knocks their lightsabers out of their hands as he did to Yoda.

Really though, lightning doesn't even need to be brought out in this match. Obi-Wan got owned by some simple Force maneuvers, Qui-Gon isn't even as good as Maul, and Grievous is vulnerable completely to the Force.



Yes, because they'll be able to encircle him before one dies, right? Like they'd be able to circle him at all that is. If Qui-Gon attempts to engage in lightsaber combat, he gets dropped in about 5 seconds. So, I don't know why you keep acting as if he is going to help at all.



All he really has to do is take out either Obi-Wan or Grievous, and they lose. So, why would he need to use it on all of them?

Obi-Wan - as we know - has no Force defense against far superior Force users. Grievous - as we know - has no Force defense against Force users.



Prove it. He doesn't even need to use lightning, it took Dooku three seconds to throw Kenobi around like a ragdoll, the same Obi-Wan that would beat Qui-Gon's maverick ass. And obviously, you cannot just rush in and block lightning as seen by the moron Anakin in AOTC. Plus, you must consider that Palpatine's lightning made Mace give it all of his concentration, how can Qui-Gon defend again? We've seen lightning be able to blast lightsabers out of Yoda's hands.



What you're not understand is that it's not always possible to do it as we've seen demonstrated on Sora Bulq. You're just assuming it's a simple 1-2-3, it's not. Qui-Gon is a slow, old moron who can't even contend with Darth Raypark. Obi-Wan? A guy who can't do shit against attacks from superior Force users, likewise with Grievous.



Just like he dodged Obi-Wan's in the actual movie? Just like he dodged Mace's Force crush? Quit being so daft. When have we see anyone actually dodge a Force push in something that is actually complete canon? To my knowledge - none. Stuff they cannot replicate in actual material is shit they cannot do. Or are you telling me Mace Windu can jump several miles, fall five thousand feet and magically grab a transport, and punch out an entire army of battle droids with his bare hands?



Hey, friend, this is what we call bullshit. The novelization never states that. So, where are you getting this from? Your ass? The novelization actually states that Qui-Gon was trying to keep Maul from gaining room. Then again, the novelization also says Maul does a backflip over the pit, which never happened. In any case, this is not stated in the novelization. What material are you reading this from?

And, it actually sounds too damn stupid to say that Qui-Gon needs room; especially when you consider Maul's weapon is two times the size of Qui-Gon's. Yep, Qui-Gon needed room, but a guy who's saber practically takes up the entire width of the area doesn't, lol!



Cheap move? I suppose Anakin is a cheating b*tch, and so is Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and everyone else who uses a melee move in combat. It's hardly a cheap move when you consider that Qui-Gon just couldn't defend, because he wasn't good enough. This is made clear in the novelization, and movie. Sidious >>> Maul > Qui-Gon. Maul took out Jinn in thirty seconds, even while Jinn was fighting with a "ferocity not seen before" (script & novel), and "found a new reserve of strength" (novel). I'd say Sidious takes him in two seconds.



Uh, yeah I'm sure he can't just lift up Grievous and toss him out the window.

May I ask, though, where are you getting this "grip" bit from? I never even stated that Sidious would use it in that entire post. You are clearly delusional, or just like to make up points and try to defeat them.

You = crazy.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Lightyears.....Yes millions of miles lesser

He wouldn't have wounded the other Jedi, he can direct what it hits, Grievous dodged it, he saw it coming. Grievous was much better after that training lesson with Grievous, we're talking about Grievous at his prime, right before Mace crushed him, he dodged a bunch of Force attacks by Shaak Ti and her 2 Jedi friends.

They don't have to fight him with the Force, only Lightsabers, the only chance he will be able to attack ALL of them with the Force is at the start of the fight with Lightning, as they block all of that with their Lightsabers, they get close, encircle him, it comes to a Lightsaber duel, he can't beat them all, blocking 6 Lightsabers all around him would be impossible for him. Grip will only work on 1-2 people, in that time, he's vulnerable, he dies.


Did you see how little ground the push plowed through? A jedi can push around 5 people at once, but when Ki-Adi pushes it only covers the ground of one single person? Either he is damn weak, or he was directing so he wouldn't hit anyone else...


Yeah, I really like how he dodged Mace's force crush, Shaak Tiis push, Obi-Wan's push and Dooku's "push".


And I guess Sidious had 3 hands, since he lifted 3 pods at once.

Advent, now you're twisting words, and pulling shit from your ass
You pulled apart my writing and used that as backup, again I say you really should be a lawyer.

The 3 Jedi that died < Grievous, Qui-gon and Obi-Wan.
The numbers decide this since none of them alone are powerful enough to beat him, but together they do. Those Jedi were nobodys, weak.

Maul almost killed Sidious, and Qui-Gon is almost as good as him, Qui-Gon is more powerful than you paint him as. Obi-Wan only got owned because there was NO ONE ELSE TO HIT DOOKU WHILE HE DID IT, get that through your skull, he is not capable of fighting while doing a Force Crush/Grip. It's funny in a later sentence you destroy the Cartoon series, yet you use Grievous getting Force Crushed as Evidence. The Cartoon is exaggerated yes, but the things where he fought all 5 Jedi, and Mace crushing him, are Canon.

Yes Kit Fisto blocked, I knew that, stop Twisting words, the first 2 didn't, and the other Jedi had a PERFECT chance to strike Palpatine in the back while he stabbed them. Palpatine used obvious moves, which were incredibly slow, while the others LET THEMSELVES BE HIT. I again say, unless you admit that they were at Youngling level, go with the "OH SH**!" theory, no Jedi is that weak.

Grievous in ROTS =/= Grievous before getting Crushed. He didn't dodge it because he couldn't at that time. Was Dooku actually fighting with his Lightsaber while doing a Grip? No he wasn't, yes you can use Force Push can such, but Lightning/Grip take time to kill people, you have to channel, and with 3 people hitting him, all masters of Saber-combat, he doesn't have that time.

Yea, Shaak Ti pushed him through a wall, then there's the other countless Force Pushes he dodged. How is he going to notice the small end of his cape being tied to a Train while Shaak Ti makes no movements? Palpatine can't do anything like that here, and we can assume he'll take off his Cloak.

You use Personal attacks, really bit**y ones too. Lightning is the only one he can use on them from that distance, if he uses a Grip, he can only get 1 person, he can't throw them out the window, since they're on the other side of the room. Grievous was shown as fitting in that room in the Cartoon, and was able to do full movements, while slaughtering several Senate Guard and Clone Troopers

Obi-Wan was shown blocking the Lightning from a Distance with EASE, up close, it will be like Mace. the point of them being the Strongest Jedi is they know more techniques, how to survive, they didn't get there for nothing, just because that random Jedi didn't, doesn't mean that these Expert ones won't, your point is useless. Yoda is smaller, his Lightsaber is smaller, the Lightning covers more of his body, they have bigger Lightsabers, it won't be knocked from their hands

Yes, ALONE they would get owned by the Force, but he can only kill 1 at a time, the others stab him while he's doing that, it takes time to kill them, the others can get to him before that happens.

Distance matters when blocking it, Qui-Gon was a very skilled Jedi, he would block it, prove that he couldn't. Sora Bulq was RIGHT INFRONT OF HIM, he took him out because of that, this isn't a famous Jedi, he's weaker than all of the people in this fight

Again you're dismissing Canon material that you yourself use, could he jump Thousands of Miles up? No, were the Events in those Canon? Yes. Movie Grievous has no purpose whatsoever in this debate, at all, would you like me to repeat that for you since I know you will bring it up yet again?

I believe that his weakness of Ataru was stated by Dooku in some EU, on Wookiepedia, and Starwars.com, everything is explained in the EU, most of the information you use comes from the EU, so you admit to not using Canonical information to debate? Ataru is known to need room, Maul's Lightsaber made no differance, he uses Juyo, which does not

Yes, Cheap moves, they don't show Lightsaber skill, Qui-Gon was capable of fighting him until Obi-wan got there

Grip was stated by other people,stop being so full of yourself, there are only 3 powers really, Push, Lightning, and Grip to be used, Lightning can be blocked, Grip takes time, others would kill him, and Push is only temporary.

You = Twist Words

Originally posted by kamikz
Did you see how little ground the push plowed through? A jedi can push around 5 people at once, but when Ki-Adi pushes it only covers the ground of one single person? Either he is damn weak, or he was directing so he wouldn't hit anyone else...


Yeah, I really like how he dodged Mace's force crush, Shaak Tiis push, Obi-Wan's push and Dooku's "push".


And I guess Sidious had 3 hands, since he lifted 3 pods at once.


It was powerful, Grievous dodged it, end of story

Yea, well, he did Dodge the other what? 5-10 on one battle by Shaak Ti, Mace used a Force Crush(actually more of a Force Close the Armor on his Organs) you don't dodge that. Obi-Wan pushed already weakened Grievous

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Advent, now you're twisting words, and pulling shit from your ass
You pulled apart my writing and used that as backup, again I say you really should be a lawyer.

Kreiger, you're making shit up. I love how you say all these things, yet I don't even do them. Your tactic thus far is saying shit, and not backing it up, so as it seems that I am doing something dirty - when, in fact, you're doing it. I show when you're making shit up, and you don't properly retort it.



Oh, where did I "twist" something around? Here's your exact words:

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger (<--That's you, idiot)
I love how no one is addressing how they didn't even TRY to block his attacks

How can I "twist" something that was vague? Glad to see you can attempt to discredit, and horribly fail. When did you give any specifics indicating Kit blocked it? Oh? You didn't? So, now I'll just make a fool out of you. QED, noob.



1.) Wookipedia, lol. Wookiepedia is not an authority on Star Wars, it's information holds no water unless you have the proof that backs it up (i.e. actual source material/quote).

2.) Prove up.

3.) And we know that Qui-Gon does not use Ataru like a regular practitioner, as Ataru is know for it's acrobatic moves, and such.

4.) You're going to say that the size of your lightsaber doesn't matter?

Bull-f*cking-shit! If you're going to be so daft, don't even continue to debate with me.



Uh? No? After Obi-Wan got knocked down it was Qui-Gon and Maul alone. And this is stated exactly in the novelization:

"But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger."

Maul > Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan never even got involved in their singles match. In any case, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were failing in their attempts at tag teaming, as well. Failing horribly. Qui-Gon cannot beat Maul. Nothing more to it.



So, because it was stated by other people, it means you should address it while talking to me? Great response for the fact you just like to make shit up, and defeat it. That wasn't even one of my points, ergo there was no reason to say it. Period.



Care to show me where I've "twisted words"? I've pointed out the time you said I did, that you did not specify. So, in fact, you're the only one changing shit.

You = Fail.

Anyways, the rest I'll address later. Though, I can tell you - you're wrong without even reading half of it.

talk about a long arguement >.>

Talk about Homunculi. I mean, really.

Originally posted by Advent


Kreiger, you're making shit up. I love how you say all these things, yet I don't even do them. Your tactic thus far is saying shit, and not backing it up, so as it seems that I am doing something dirty - when, in fact, you're doing it. I show when you're making shit up, and you don't properly retort it.



Oh, where did I "twist" something around? Here's your exact words:



How can I "twist" something that was vague? Glad to see you can attempt to discredit, and horribly fail. When did you give any specifics indicating Kit blocked it? Oh? You didn't? So, now I'll just make a fool out of you. QED, noob.



1.) Wookipedia, lol. Wookiepedia is not an authority on Star Wars, it's information holds no water unless you have the proof that backs it up (i.e. actual source material/quote).

2.) Prove up.

3.) And we know that Qui-Gon does not use Ataru like a regular practitioner, as Ataru is know for it's acrobatic moves, and such.

4.) You're going to say that the size of your lightsaber doesn't matter?

Bull-f*cking-shit! If you're going to be so daft, don't even continue to debate with me.



Uh? No? After Obi-Wan got knocked down it was Qui-Gon and Maul alone. And this is stated exactly in the novelization:

"But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger."

Maul > Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan never even got involved in their singles match. In any case, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were failing in their attempts at tag teaming, as well. Failing horribly. Qui-Gon cannot beat Maul. Nothing more to it.



So, because it was stated by other people, it means you should address it while talking to me? Great response for the fact you just like to make shit up, and defeat it. That wasn't even one of my points, ergo there was no reason to say it. Period.



Care to show me where I've "twisted words"? I've pointed out the time you said I did, that you did not specify. So, in fact, you're the only one changing shit.

You = Fail.

Anyways, the rest I'll address later. Though, I can tell you - you're wrong without even reading half of it.


hang You're twisting my words by taking parts of single sentences, and addressing them as 2 differant topics. Debating with you now is pointless, you're not reading my posts, and attacking my "evidence" even though you use the exact same. I'm not making any shit up, you really need to take a Chill Pill

death smartass

Indeed. Advent does do that.

Advent's Noob Translator, Version 6.5

Translate a block of text: You're twisting my words by taking parts of single sentences, and addressing them as 2 differant topics. Debating with you now is pointless, you're not reading my posts, and attacking my "evidence" even though you use the exact same. I'm not making any shit up, you really need to take a Chill Pill

Select from and to languages: Noobenese to English.

Translation: *raises white flag* I was called out, but failed to provide evidence. I also made up that Advent twisted words around about "them" blocking Sidious' attack, and now am resorting to being a complete moron in yet another failure of my life.

Now, since that's out of the way...

Look, foolish child, you said specifically that I twisted your words on Kit Fisto "blocking Sidious' attack". I provided what you said which was exactly, "how they didn't even TRY to block his attacks", and proved that you are nothing, but an utter moron - attempting to discredit, but failing horribly because we have a written account of what everyone wrote.

So, as you see, I haven't twisted jack shit around. I already proved that you were pulling that stunt out of making shit up.

Fact:You said I twisted your words around about Kit Fisto blocking.
Fact: I proved you never gave indication about any of them blocking, only that "they" didn't try to block his attacks.
Conclusion: You pull shit from your ass.

Given we know you make shit up, I doubt anyone really gives a damn what kind of claims you make. It's just another bullshit tactic to aid a failing argument.

Originally posted by Adas
Indeed. Advent does do that.

Oh shut up, Nebaris. How about instead of just talking shit, you shut the hell up. Show me where I've twisted one thing around then. I've already proven his claims are bullshit, and I showed specifically how.

Yeah, I twist so much around that I can prove he made that claim up! Great. I address points by points. Simple as that. There is no "twisting" involved.

Temper temper. I was just pointing out the obvious truth. But really, no need to lose it.

Obvious truth? Please, enlighten us as to where I've twisted something around.

And yes, it is a "temper". I don't like little damn kids talking shit.

So you're admitting you're angry? , nice to know.

Omg, someone's mad so that's soo funny! Great.

F*cking signature duel me right now. I'll love to see your MS Paint "skillz" at work.

Angry on the net, tssk tssk, only "noobs" get angry on the Internet

Uh, no. Only noobs make shit up, fail at discrediting, and can't argue for shit. You meet all those requirements.

The internet has nothing to do with this, it's the general fact that some kid would actually insult me. Just because we're on the web, doesn't make much of a difference.

Originally posted by Advent
Omg, someone's mad so that's soo funny! Great.

F*cking signature duel me right now. I'll love to see your MS Paint "skillz" at work.

roflmao .

That was the funniest thing I've ever seen.



Advent: You little prick, F*cking mc battle me right now. I'll love to see your rhyming "skillz" at work.

I am so badly putting that quote in my profile.

Calm down, all of you. Nebaris, quit trying to cause more problems. We all know that you don't have a chance in hell against Advent in a true debate, so you have to try to fill the void by taking shots at her. Nice try.

Same for you, Kreiger. You've yet to provide any real evidence to support that Palpatine would die in this fight, when he is more powerful than all three of them.

I never made anything up, I did argue points well enough, and did discredit you when you took apart my sentences and used personal insults to backup your points

You call me a kid, but you use childish insults, and yes, the web does make a differance, we arn't speaking face to face, don't get angry

I have proven my points well enough, you need to read them

Originally posted by Escape81
We all know that you don't have a chance in hell against Advent in a true debate, so you have to try to fill the void by taking shots at her. Nice try.

O RLY?

STFU!! You want to play hard ball with me, let us have a sig battle. You really think your Paintshop Pro skillz will be able to contend with mine. Let's do it motherf*cker!!

Originally posted by Adas
O RLY?

STFU!! You want to play hard ball with me, let us have a sig battle. You really think your Paintshop Pro skillz will be able to contend with mine. Let's do it motherf*cker!!

no no2

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
I never made anything up,

You did say that I twisted your words around on that Kit Fisto subject. Which I didn't because you didn't specify anything.



No. What you tried to do is discredit me. You failed, because I countered it with ease. My posts contain rebuttals that don't consist of just an insult. True, there are insults in there, but it is actually posting points, and then insulting. And I can disprove your claim that I substitute insults for my points. Shall I do that now to prove you're further lying?



I called you a kid after you said you were done. If I called you a "kid" in my posts, it was at the end, and not substituted for a point.



Uh, yeah - I did read them, and I tore them to shreds, your point?

And Adas, continue making a joke. It's kind of not funny when you consider you're making a joke out of a joke. Obviously you have no sig making experience, so how could I be friggin' serious?

I beg to differ, I think you actually were being quite serious. If you really were kidding, you'd probably say something like "Call your attorney. I'm about to ***** slap you in the courtroom! Case closed motherf*cker"

Incorrect. I retired from being the Single Female KMC Lawyer. Do I need to come out of retirement, and make sure your ass doesn't see light for the next 2-5 years on count of the indictment, Noobisim in the second degree?

Because believe me, that can and will happen if I hear any further out of you.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=388221&from=thread&pagenumber=344#post7241295

You cannot be serious.

I have never made a sig in my life.

I have never signature dueled in my life, so we're on par.

I have no experience with sig making. However I rise to any challenge.

Whatever, Waldo.

.... juz calm down both of you, this is sw forum meant to have fun not insults at each other, juz relax no need to get worked up

STFU ESB, this is quality entertainment

u got a problem? how bout i entertain you and u dont have to be rude.

God, it was a joke man. I found Adas vs. Advent quite entertaining.

sry >.> anyways lets watch lol, sry if i snapped, normally i dont take stuff like that easy cuz ummm nvm :P

Well this entire forum is awash with rude people so its best to just put up with it

Sidius -->cant<-- defend/parry 6 lighsabers, espasially not when its grievous ,qui gon and, obi wan

Originally posted by Blax XXX
He'd probably win with just his saber also. GG would wtf pwn RotS Sidious in a lightsaber duel.

allow me to draft up a likely scenario
(the trio walk to palpatine's office with grevous holding the others in handcuffs)
GG: i have the prisoners my chancellor
DS: great
GG: shall i execute them?
DS: no! Ill do it myself! (puts hands forth for force choke)
GG: now! (pulls out blaster and fires a shot to distract siddious)
( qui gon and obi wan un handcuff themselves with thier sabers)
(they jump into a triangle around siddious)
DS: no, you will die!!! (attempts force lighting and gets it absorbed by kenobi's saber)
(qui-gon leads a miserably failed first attack whereupon after the short duel, siddious shocks him into the wall like he did yoda)
(grevous duels hin and destroys siddious's saber then destroys siddous)
( kenobi force pushes him out the window before the intergalactic FBI arrive)

Seriously though, before the incident with Windu Grievous would wtf pwn alot of people in lightsaber duels. Sidious on the other hand could pwn all of them with the Force.

If this is a saber duel, it would be close.

No it wouldn't.

No, Sidious won't pwn them if he can't use the force.

Exactly, Grievous would pwn Suidious if he can't use the Force. Sidious could barely handle Yoda, imagine Grievous.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Exactly, Grievous would pwn Suidious if he can't use the Force. Sidious could barely handle Yoda, imagine Grievous.

Uhmm, Yoda is better with Sabers then GG, as is Sidious.

But in this fight, Sidious against the trio, Sidious wins, Grievous is no threat at all, he has no defence to Force attacks, before anyone says, he dodged Force attacks before, he only dodged Force Push, he cant dodge Crush, Choke... and this is Sidious, the strongest Sith Lord ever, not an average Jedi, Grievous is used to fighting. Then its Sidious against Kenobi and Jinn. Dooku got rid of Kenobi, while fending of Anakin, so Sidious, who is stronger then Dooku and Jinn, who is weaker then Anakin, will have no problem, defeating the remaining duo, but mostly because of his Force powers.

Let's see Dooku could not defeat Yoda multiple times in saber combat. Dooku trains Grievous and it is clear he has more skill than Grievous> Dooku tells Greivous not to face Yoda. And Yoda and Sidious stalemated in the saber portion of their duelSo remind me how Grievous>Sidious in sabers

Individually they all would lose Qui-gon is outclassed here by a very big margin and what is to stop Sidious from killing him in seconds like he did to 3 of the jedi sent to kill him,Grievous has no force defence toa crush or choke,Sidious is better than him in saber combat and Yoda tells Kenobi he is no match for the emperor. Plus it has been about like 13 years since Sidious last touched the light saber. Sidious takes this.

In a saber duel, sure Sidious has more skill but w/o the force he would be overwhelmed. Greivous is to fast.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
In a saber duel, sure Sidious has more skill but w/o the force he would be overwhelmed. Greivous is to fast.

So you are saying without the force to aid him in a duel even a pure lightsaber duel he would lose. Because than any force use would probably lose because they all use the force in a duel even without them using any attacks like choke,lightning,etc. In pure saber duels the force is used for speed and strength(and maybe acrobatics) nothing else. So Sidious is still better a saber duelist than Grievous.

Sure but in a 1on1 fight my money would be on Grievous as far as sabers go.

I understand your force comment also. I just mean not using it for choke, push, lightning, or any other move while in battle. But he can still use it for acrobatics and precognition.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Sure but in a 1on1 fight my money would be on Grievous as far as sabers go.

I understand your force comment also. I just mean not using it for choke, push, lightning, or any other move while in battle. But he can still use it for acrobatics and precognition.

I really don't see how Grievous<Dooku who trained him yet even he could not defeat Yoda in multiple lightsaber duels and he is the one who retreats from yet Yoda=Sidious in the ROTS saber portion of the duel. And this is Sidious when he was out of practice seeing as how he sealed a lightsaber in the statue and would not have sufficient time to train as he was the supreme chancellor. And Sidious killed 3 jedi masters(and on the jedi council) in seconds(2 of them were in like 3 and Kit fell very shortly later) after all of those jedi were above anyone that Grievous killed.

Sidious would beat GG in saber fight.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Sidious picks them up like he did the senate pods and throws them out the window.



Its true, that's why its so funny.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
I really don't see how Grievous<Dooku who trained him yet even he could not defeat Yoda in multiple lightsaber duels and he is the one who retreats from yet Yoda=Sidious in the ROTS saber portion of the duel. And this is Sidious when he was out of practice seeing as how he sealed a lightsaber in the statue and would not have sufficient time to train as he was the supreme chancellor. And Sidious killed 3 jedi masters(and on the jedi council) in seconds(2 of them were in like 3 and Kit fell very shortly later) after all of those jedi were above anyone that Grievous killed. I see your point.