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Both second only to the supreme being. - Who wins?

lucifer wins, but not easily

i say draw - none can beat one another
i prefer LT but i still say a draw

Lucifer ftw

LT vs L

In terms of feat: LT
In terms of statements by them: LT
In terms of statements by other: Draw
In terms of intelligence: LT

yeah right

what feats
what are you talking about statements what statemens who's statements
intelligence. i dont see LT being so smart he would take down his own bosses armies like lucifer morningstar did to the presances.

Living Tribunal's little burning canary.
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8015/ltpfmo7.th.jpg
"The Phoenix KNOWS the Tribunal will NOT allow it...
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7916/ltpf2ne5.th.jpg
Now isn't that sweet.

Originally posted by Mider999
yeah right

what feats.

1. Nullifying the Infinity Gauntlet affect, while at the SAME time,

2. Recreating the Abstracts in an instant.

(Infinity Gauntlet punked the Ultimate Nullifier...the Ultimate Nullifier Remade the Multi-verse)...nuff said.

3. Authority over the IG

4. Transforming the Silver Surfer into a Universe for a moment.

5. or just Kubik's comments on LT:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg

Thanks for the back up.

I'd put it to a draw. Its all too vague.

All Marvel's cosmic beings together faced Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet, and lost. The Living Tribunal could have beaten him all by himself. Nuff' said.

Yah.. but who's beaten Lucifer?

yeah right says who he said im not sure if i can beat the IG by myself he said you wanna end up destroying earth ok but if not give me the IG he never said give them up now or die.

Warlock destroys the hierarchy of representitives, except for LT ofcourse.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7635/ltrulesig10cf.th.jpg

With a gesture LT STOPS the IG ATTACK and RECREATES the Abstratcs
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7161/ltrecreatesqm2.th.jpg


Originally posted by Mider999
yeah right says who he said im not sure if i can beat the IG by myself

Point out for me, when and where did LT ever say that.

Here he DETERMINES whether he HAD the power or NOT, he EVIDENTLY knew he did.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/619/ltrulesig37jm.th.jpg

After Warlock's "warning" of how powerful he was, LT STILL rules against him.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8108/ltrulesig44zu.th.jpg


Originally posted by Mider999
he said you wanna end up destroying earth ok but if not give me the IG he never said give them up now or die.



LT was referring to the Universe not just Earth.

Here LT acknowledges that it would take destroying this UNIVERSE in order to take the Gauntlet from Warlock, he's not hesitating, he's not feeling dubious about the outcome, he simply rather not have to obliterate a Reality (a Universe) to strip Adam of the IG.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6516/ltrulesig56ys.th.jpg

They BOTH knew the outcome before it started.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3793/ltrulesig60qp.th.jpg


Research, then post please.

<Overkill>

It would seem that the LT does not have the power to beat Lucifer. Lucifer seems to be outside of the wrealth of God's Control persay. His will makes him outside of judgement. Which means that the lt can't really beat lucifer. I dont know if Lucifer has the power to beat God's judgement either. it's just a draw.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It would seem that the LT does not have the power to beat Lucifer. Lucifer seems to be outside of the wrealth of God's Control persay. His will makes him outside of judgement. Which means that the lt can't really beat lucifer. I dont know if Lucifer has the power to beat God's judgement either. it's just a draw.
Lucifer needed Michael's help to create a universe.
LT needs no ones help to do anything!

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Lucifer needed Michael's help to create a universe.
LT needs no ones help to do anything!

The Lt can't really judge lucifer. His power comes from his ability to judge and set things right. We know how well beings like him and eternity do against beings who are outside of the wrealm of destiny. Lucifer just happens to be the most powerful being ever outside of judgment. Or at least the smartest. If lucifer can defy God, he can defy the lt. He can't beat the lt, but the lt can do nothing to stop lucifer or hurt him.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Lt can't really judge lucifer. His power comes from his ability to judge and set things right. We know how well beings like him and eternity do against beings who are outside of the wrealm of destiny. Lucifer just happens to be the most powerful being ever outside of judgment. Or at least the smartest. If lucifer can defy God, he can defy the lt. He can't beat the lt, but the lt can do nothing to stop lucifer or hurt him.
For what he shown... He wouldent do a squat to LT.
LT knows everything, you cannot be smarter than him.

Thats why he say:

"Define law" insteed of "what the hell do you mean by law"?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
For what he shown... He wouldent do a squat to LT.
LT knows everything, you cannot be smarter than him.

Thats why he say:

"Define law" insteed of "what the hell do you mean by law"?

But your not arguing against my point. Lucifer is outside the wrealm of judgment. And can step in and out of realities just like the lt. Lucifer is more than likely smarter than the lt. the lt doesn't have the will or smarts to even challenge God. But lucifer doesn't have the power to mess with "what's right" cuz basically that is what the lt is. everything that is right and orderly and all of that. so they really just have to settle to leave each other alone.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But your not arguing against my point. Lucifer is outside the wrealm of judgment. And can step in and out of realities just like the lt. Lucifer is more than likely smarter than the lt. the lt doesn't have the will or smarts to even challenge God. But lucifer doesn't have the power to mess with "what's right" cuz basically that is what the lt is. everything that is right and orderly and all of that. so they really just have to settle to leave each other alone.
LT don't challange God because its not a fool.
Look if God wants to get rid of someting, its gone.
Lucifer have been to stuck up. If he were in Marvel he would not even be history.

If you even read a statement by Lucifer and a statement by LT you will notice that he uses a more advanced language.

And what do you mean LT cannot judge Lucifer...?

i still say Lucifer wins

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
LT don't challange God because its not a fool.
Look if God wants to get rid of someting, its gone.
Lucifer have been to stuck up. If he were in Marvel he would not even be history.

If you even read a statement by Lucifer and a statement by LT you will notice that he uses a more advanced language.

And what do you mean LT cannot judge Lucifer...?

He doen'st have the power to judge lucifer. HIs will cannot supercede Lucifer's own.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He doen'st have the power to judge lucifer. HIs will cannot supercede Lucifer's own.
So he can't judge Lucifer because he's from DC, but Lucifer can harm LT.
Or do you mean that he don't have the power for some reason?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So he can't judge Lucifer because he's from DC, but Lucifer can harm LT.
Or do you mean that he don't have the power for some reason?

no, he can't judge lucifer, becuz lucifer is outside the wrealm of being judged. His will superceded lt's. But lucifer doesn't have the power to set wrong ,all the right that lt represents. they have to settle for a draw imo.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
no, he can't judge lucifer, becuz lucifer is outside the wrealm of being judged. His will superceded lt's. But lucifer doesn't have the power to set wrong ,all the right that lt represents. they have to settle for a draw imo.
So if I put up Spider-man vs Batman no one can win because they are in different universes and aer unablwe to reach eachother?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So if I put up Spider-man vs Batman no one can win because they are in different universes and aer unablwe to reach eachother?

ur missing what i'm saying. Lucifer's will is outside the wrealm of judgment. Lucifer can challenge God himself. He wont' win, but the fact that his will is so strong, that he can basically step outside of judgement is saying alot. At the same time, Lucifer does not have the power, to dare challenge the perfection of righteousness that is the Living tribunal. They really can't do squat to each other.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ur missing what i'm saying. Lucifer's will is outside the wrealm of judgment. Lucifer can challenge God himself. He wont' win, but the fact that his will is so strong, that he can basically step outside of judgement is saying alot. At the same time, Lucifer does not have the power, to dare challenge the perfection of righteousness that is the Living tribunal. They really can't do squat to each other.
Nothing but God have steped out the LT's judgement.
Not even Multi-Eternity who is the Multi-verse can stand up against him. In other words: LT can destroy the Multi-verse like nothing.
Can Lucifer destroy God's creation like nothing?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Nothing but God have steped out the LT's judgement.
Not even Multi-Eternity who is the Multi-verse can stand up against him. In other words: LT can destroy the Multi-verse like nothing.
Can Lucifer destroy God's creation like nothing?

The Lt can't destroy anything unless it's in divine order. meaning it needs to be that way. He can just do it on a whim. THat is what i'm saying. he is still under God's control. Lucifer has no such limit. The Lt could destroy all of creation trying to destroy lucifer and lucifer would just step outside of all existance. Lucifer's will exceeds the lt's will. It just is a match. they can't beat each other.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Lt can't destroy anything unless it's in divine order. meaning it needs to be that way. He can just do it on a whim. THat is what i'm saying. he is still under God's control. Lucifer has no such limit. The Lt could destroy all of creation trying to destroy lucifer and lucifer would just step outside of all existance. Lucifer's will exceeds the lt's will. It just is a match. they can't beat each other.
I say: LT is the judge if something is in "divine order" or not.
(PS: read Mr. Master's scans)

Misconception.
LT powers does not depends from beings staying under the sfere of influence of his judgment.He checked how the full power release of the IG by Warlock VS his might would have done in a battle, and gained the knowledge that he rules above the IG.He has powers which outcome those of ANYONE, except for God.
Lucifer is outside judgment?Doesn't matter.LT still can blast him nullifying his ebsence.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Nothing but God have steped out the LT's judgement.
Not even Multi-Eternity who is the Multi-verse can stand up against him. In other words: LT can destroy the Multi-verse like nothing.
Can Lucifer destroy God's creation like nothing?

Let me see here. You are comparing someone who is a guardian of God's creation to someone who made there own creation against the The Creator's Creation?? Lucifer when asked if he needed an army to protect HIS Creation said to Mazikeen "I am my OWN army. A million times more numerous than yours". And no LT doesn't know everything .

Originally posted by kevdude
Let me see here. You are comparing someone who is a guardian of God's creation to someone who made there own creation against the The Creator's Creation?? Lucifer when asked if he needed an army to protect HIS Creation said to Mazikeen "I am my OWN army. A million times more numerous than yours". And no LT doesn't know everything .
Tell me what does not LT know.

Well did he know about the outcome of him going against Adam Warlock with the IG?? And God is the only being that knows everything. LT is not Marvels God/TOAA..

Originally posted by kevdude
Well did he know about the outcome of him going against Adam Warlock with the IG?? And God is the only being that knows everything. LT is not Marvels God/TOAA..
When the Amalgam Brothers are retconned in DC vs Marvel, they say that no one's omnisience can match the Living Tribunal's.
- Not implying anything just saying.

Living Tribunal is beyond Multi-Eternity. Multi-Eternity is beyond Lucifer.

Lucifer's greatest feat was creating a Universe....oo0o0o0o0oo00o00o0o0oo0 WOWWWWW

LT can create and destroy universes just as easily.

LT takes this

Lucifer's greatest feat was creating a Universe....oo0o0o0o0oo00o00o0o0oo0 WOWWWWW

No, Lucifer needs Michael's help to create a universe.
He can't do it alone.

how funny you dont have the scan of which im talking about mr masters i sue remeber seeing it though

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Living Tribunal is beyond Multi-Eternity. Multi-Eternity is beyond Lucifer.

Lucifer's greatest feat was creating a Universe....oo0o0o0o0oo00o00o0o0oo0 WOWWWWW

LT can create and destroy universes just as easily.

LT takes this Dude Michael has beaten down the Spectre before. Both he and Lucifer are peers.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
No, Lucifer needs Michael's help to create a universe.
He can't do it alone. this is true michael= the power, and lucifer= the will, without michaels power lucifer would not have been able to shape a universe

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Lt can't really judge lucifer. His power comes from his ability to judge and set things right.

This is a battle.

The thread doesn't ask, "Can LT judge Lucifer"....

"LT vs Lucifer", that's the thread.

It's a hypothetical confrontation, so How do we figure out who would win?

By their feats of power.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If lucifer can defy God, he can defy the lt. He can't beat the lt, but the lt can do nothing to stop lucifer or hurt him.

Obviously we're assuming that they CAN hurt each other, otherwise what's the point of the thread?

Originally posted by kevdude
Let me see here. You are comparing someone who is a guardian of God's creation to someone who made there own creation against the The Creator's Creation??


Lucifer is an outlaw it seems and the Creator allows that, doesn't make him more powerful.

I'm sure if the "Creator" wanted, Lucifer and his creation would be toast, if not, DC has a chump for a "God"

Lucifer created A Universe...impressive but,

based on Feats...LT takes it.

Originally posted by kevdude
Well did he know about the outcome of him going against Adam Warlock with the IG??

Actually, he did.

They BOTH knew the outcome before it started.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3793/ltrulesig60qp.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Lucifer is an outlaw it seems and the Creator allows that, doesn't make him more powerful.

I'm sure if the "Creator" wanted, Lucifer and his creation would be toast, if not, DC has a chump for a "God"

Lucifer created A Universe...impressive but,

based on Feats...LT takes it. actually lucifer didnt "create" a universe, he just "shaped" one out of michaels power

Originally posted by Mider999
how funny you dont have the scan of which im talking about mr masters i sue remeber seeing it though

I'll post every page in the comic if you want.

What confused you was other posters contorting the facts, many were mis-guided so don't think much of it.

Now you know, that's the good part.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'll post every page in the comic if you want.

What confused you was other posters contorting the facts, many were mis-guided so don't think much of it.

Now you know, that's the good part.
True, if someone don't belive you they should get the comics themselves, not ask for all the scans.

This is amazing how some people think LT is above Lucifer . If LT was powerless and a moral, would he have a chance at fighting Eternity or Galactus?? NO. Lucifer Morningstar has DONE these sorta of things before and done it more then once (and quite easily). Guys really need to understand these beings before commenting and voting!!

Lucifer's Will supercedes the Lt's own. And just like Lucifer shaped michael's power, he could just as easily use The LT for his own purposes. He could turn Lt's power against himself. IF they were fighting. Feats wise, doesn't always tell the tale. Dr. Doom is superior becuz of his keen mind. not becuz of displays of power. Lucifer is superior to lt in mind and will. Not in power. They have to stale mate or I give it to lucifer on sheer will power and brains.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Lucifer's Will supercedes the Lt's own. And just like Luciger shaped michael's power, he could just as easily use The LT for his own purposes. He could turn Lt's power against himself. If they were fighting. Feats wise doesn't always tell the tale. Dr. Doom is superior becuz of his keen mind. not becuz of displays of power. Lucifer is superior to lt in mind and will. Not in power. They have to stale mate or I give it to lucifer on sheer will power and brains. but understand that lucifer did not make michael give him power which he could shape into a universe, but rather lucifer won a divine bet, and the power was his prize.....

Originally posted by galan7777777
but understand that lucifer did not make michael give him power which he could shape into a universe, but rather lucifer won a divine bet, and the power was his prize.....

Lucifer is still smarter than the LT. And he his will is also stronger. He does what he wants. WHen he wants. He is allowed by God for some reason to exist out side the bounds of Judgment and The universe. The LT does things based on his power to judge and set things a certain way. Imagine him trying to set lucifer str8. Morningstar would laugh at The LT and Stab him with Michael's sword.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Lucifer is still smarter than the LT. And he his will is also stronger. He does what he wants. WHen he wants. He is allowed by God for some reason to exist out side the bounds of Judgment and The universe. The LT does things based on his power to judge and set things a certain way. Imagine him trying to set lucifer str8. Morningstar would laugh at The LT and Stab him with Michael's sword. i agree that none in the marvel/dc omniverse can rivel the will of lucifer, but his will dosent necessarily mean a victory, its true that LT cant kill lucifer, but can lucifer kill LT? the only one to ever "kill" LT, and i use that term very lightly, is thanos HOTU was he absorbed him......

Living Tribunal knows: Everything that happend, is going to happend and everything that will happend.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Living Tribunal knows: Everything that happend, is going to happend and everything that will happend. but this dosent necessarily equate to having stronger will then lucifer

What... He have no real personality, at least no deapth's.
Of course he have no other will that justice in the Multi-verse.
He's the ultimate judge.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Living Tribunal knows: Everything that happend, is going to happend and everything that will happend.

The Living Tribunal isn't omniscience. He got stopped by Reeds . God is the only 1 whos omniscience.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
What... He have no real personality, at least no deapth's.
Of course he have no other will that justice in the Multi-verse.
He's the ultimate judge. and lucifer was made from gods own hand as "the will" you cant really get more clear then that lol!

What do will-power have to do with the battle?
This is based on power, suported by intelligence.
If someone is focused or anything it wouldent matter.

Originally posted by kevdude
The Living Tribunal isn't omniscience. He got stopped by Reeds . God is the only 1 whos omniscience.
Yeah he got stoped by Richards... But that was a dream remember?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
What do will-power have to do with the battle?
This is based on power, suported by intelligence.
If someone is focused or anything it woudlent matter. has LT ever demonstrated the power to shape a universe?

Originally posted by galan7777777
has LT ever demonstrated the power to shape a universe?
He helped God build the Multi-verse...

Ah didn't read the new comic. But he still isn't omniscience. And Lucifer's will power is a power.. He is the smartest being in the DCU. Next to Michael and only surpassed by The Word and God/The Presence.

And I've never heard the Living Tribunal helping build the MU with God .

And he also revived a couple of abstracts like Eternity, in other words he revived the entire universe. - In the IG series.
He is more powerful than the Multi-Eternity (who can destroy the Multi-verse, since they are one.)

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
He helped God build the Multi-verse... hmmm, what comic is this demonstrated in, my only argument for lucifer is that it can be seen on pannel him actually shaping an entire universe, and creating entire civilizations of beings from nothingness...... and to my knowledge LT hasent demonstrated these feats on pannel

Originally posted by Mr Master
1. Nullifying the Infinity Gauntlet affect, while at the SAME time,

2. Recreating the Abstracts in an instant.

(Infinity Gauntlet punked the Ultimate Nullifier...the Ultimate Nullifier Remade the Multi-verse)...nuff said.

3. Authority over the IG

4. Transforming the Silver Surfer into a Universe for a moment.

5. or just Kubik's comments on LT:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.th.jpg
Again... A universe is nothing to the Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Again... A universe is nothing to the Living Tribunal. the scan u provided dosent show anything except LT's ability to destroy a single universe....... did u even read the scan?

Originally posted by galan7777777
the scan u provided dosent show anything except LT's ability to destroy a single universe....... did u even read the scan?
Yes... But you asked if he have done something smilar to what Lucifer did.

Originally posted by kevdude
This is amazing how some people think LT is above Lucifer Guys really need to understand these beings before commenting and voting!!


Wonder what you could teach me about LT?

It's a vs battle for crying out loud,

It's determined by their feats of power, there is no other way.

Lucifer is not going to talk LT into submitting in a vs thread.

We're assuming their fighting, now...since they ARE figthing...based on who has demonstrated more power in their respective companies, we gauge that scale and determine a winner.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Lucifer is still smarter than the LT. And he his will is also stronger. He does what he wants. WHen he wants. He is allowed by God for some reason to exist out side the bounds of Judgment and The universe. The LT does things based on his power to judge and set things a certain way. Imagine him trying to set lucifer str8. Morningstar would laugh at The LT and Stab him with Michael's sword.

What's with the semantics?

LT vs Lucifer.


If they fought...if they USED their powers against each other, who would win?

"power to judge"..."a certain way"..."does what he wants"

This is all inconsequential.

If LT and Lucifer fought, who would win?

Originally posted by galan7777777
the scan u provided dosent show anything except LT's ability to destroy a single universe....... did u even read the scan?

LT has authority and power over the Complete Infinity Gauntlet.

An Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet controlled the Power of the Ultimate Nullifier.

The Ultimate Nullifier Destroyed and Remade the Multi-verse.


nuff said.

Originally posted by galan7777777
the scan u provided dosent show anything except LT's ability to destroy a single universe....... did u even read the scan?

U r correct. it takes far more power and knowlege to build than to destroy.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
U r correct. it takes far more power and knowlege to build than to destroy.
Do you claim that LT do not have the power to create a universe?

Besides that wasent Lucifer alone... Do not forget that.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Do you claim that LT do not have the power to create a universe?

Besides that wasent Lucifer alone... Do not forget that. im not saying he couldnt create a universe, but u can just assume that he can, he has never done so on pannel as lucifer has

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
U r correct. it takes far more power and knowlege to build than to destroy. agreed

Originally posted by galan7777777
im not saying he couldnt create a universe, but u can just assume that he can, he has never done so on pannel as lucifer has
Let see now: The Phoenix Force is the essence of life: They created the beings such as Eternity, in other words... Phoenix force created the univeres, and they are nothing to the judge.

... This will get us no where... Mr. M can you create a LT respect thread?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let see now: The Phoenix Force is the essence of life: They created the beings such as Eternity, in other words... Phoenix force created the univeres, and they are nothing to the judge. ure avoiding my question, u cant just assume that LT can create a universe, assumptions mean nothing....... 1 thing ive learned from these forums is if something has never been depicted on pannel, then it never happened

Besides, wouldent the fact that he's above the nullifier do it?
The nullifier did destroy and re-create the Multi-verse.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Besides, wouldent the fact that he's above the nullifier do it?
The nullifier did destroy and re-create the Multi-verse. in my oppinion yes! but like i said on these forums oppinions mean nothing if u cant back them up with facts......... and lucifer has been shown shaping a universe and all in it, while LT hasent.....

Originally posted by galan7777777
in my oppinion yes! but like i said on these forums oppinions mean nothing if u cant back them up with facts......... and lucifer has been shown shaping a universe and all in it, while LT hasent.....
He did nothing but coppied a universe. - And he could not do it alone.

If the nullifier can destroy and recreate the Multi-verse.
Than of course a greater power like the Living Tribunal can do it.
*Mr. Master have backed up that fact.

It's like saying Silver Surfer have the power to do something Galactus cannot.

Even Captain Atom can make a universe.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
... This will get us no where... Mr. M can you create a LT respect thread?

I'm working on one.

Originally posted by galan7777777
im not saying he couldnt create a universe, but u can just assume that he can, he has never done so on pannel as lucifer has

Actually LT made Silver Surfer a Universe for a moment.

He could of just as easily left him there as a Universe, but that's not LT's way, he has a guideline, it was simply a gift, "a moment of Godhood"..as it's quoted.

Originally posted by batdude123
Even Captain Atom can make a universe.
Out of Lego?

Besides, UN did not remake a universe... it remade all...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Out of Lego?

Besides, UN did not remake a universe... it remade all...

Captain Atom has the power of the entire quantum Dimension at his disposal. He really can be the one of the most powerful beings in the Universe if he wanted to.

Found my scans in another thread.


Here's the LT transforming the Silver Surfer into a Universe(SS#31 v3).
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7592/ltmakesss13fz.th.jpg

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/2751/ltmakesss21ek.th.jpg

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3725/ltmakesss31te.th.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3281/ltmakesss43ro.th.jpg

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/3169/ltmakesss53se.th.jpg

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/3707/ltmakesss80mn.th.jpg

http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/4882/ltmakesss66ed.th.jpg

Magus, with an Incomplete IG, punked the UN.


Quasar directed ALL the power of the Ultimate Nullifier at Magus alone
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5366/igvsunoz6.th.jpg

Quasar was actually able to set it off, the same device Reed wiped out and remade the Multiverse with.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2843/igvsun2pi1.th.jpg
Magus controlled those energies and negated Quasar with them,
Absolute control..notice how they engulf Quasar evenly.

"With a Thought, I turn the Universe's most devastating weapon upon it's bearer"
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8928/igvsun3sw2.th.jpg

Living Tribunal is above a Complete IG.

LT said he represents power that dwarfs the IG

Warlock acknowledge that LT serves someone beyond the IG

And the bio says Living Tribunal is above the IG straight up. --------

LT said it.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7993/ltisaboveig5ez.th.jpg
Warlock said it.
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7757/ltorderswl0iy.th.jpg
Living Tribunal's bio says it.
http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ltbio6iy.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Magus, with an Incomplete IG, punked the UN.


Quasar directed ALL the power of the Ultimate Nullifier at Magus alone
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5366/igvsunoz6.th.jpg

Quasar was actually able to set it off, the same device Reed wiped out and remade the Multiverse with.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2843/igvsun2pi1.th.jpg
Magus controlled those energies and negated Quasar with them,
Absolute control..notice how they engulf Quasar evenly.

"With a Thought, I turn the Universe's most devastating weapon upon it's bearer"
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8928/igvsun3sw2.th.jpg

Living Tribunal is above a Complete IG.

LT said he represents power that dwarfs the IG

Warlock acknowledge that LT serves someone beyond the IG

And the bio says Living Tribunal is above the IG straight up. --------

LT said it.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7993/ltisaboveig5ez.th.jpg
Warlock said it.
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7757/ltorderswl0iy.th.jpg
Living Tribunal's bio says it.
http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ltbio6iy.jpg

What does any of this have to do with the fact that Lucifer's will supercedes The LT's own. The Bio says that the Lt represents something greater. It is not saying that he himself is greater. This means nothing.

Ultimate Nullifier Remade the Multi-verse...



Abraxas was collapsing the MULTI-VERSE, he didn't need the UN to destroy a Universe at all.

Abraxas's very existence causes Reality to fall apart
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1039/unabraxasmayhem2sh0.th.jpg

Here Reed says "our Earth is merging with other Alternates"...how can this be...unless the entire Multiverse is misaligned.
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3020/earthalignment8vq.th.jpg

Here Nova says "creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself" again this Multiversal misalignment is literally ripping the Multiverse apart.
http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg



Abraxas had the Ultimate Nullifier, Galactus took it from him...NOT by Force...by simply willing it....
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5349/bigg3nz8.th.jpg
Because the Ultimate Nullifier is an ASPECT of Galactus
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6307/unaspectofbiggpu2.th.jpg
And so Galactus has more control over the UN than anyone.

Then Nova rips through Galactus's ear and Galactus drops the UN into Reed's hands.

Because Abraxas was collapsing the MULTI-VERSE, the only way to banish Abraxas and UNDO the Mis-alignement ACROSS the Multi-verse, was to DESTROY and REMAKE the Multi-verse.
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7392/earthalignment39jd.th.jpg
Reed, "In order to REALIGN ALL that is...we had to END ALL that was.

What was MISALIGNED?

The MULTI-VERSE!


Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & Remake the Multiverse
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

UN Destroys the Multiverse
http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/932/2undestroysmultieternityinfini.th.jpg

UN Remakes the Multiverse in an instant
http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/893/3unremakesthemultiverse9jq.th.jpg

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Bio says that the Lt represents something greater. It is not saying that he himself is greater. This means nothing.

Read the bio again please.

Last sentence.

ok now.

And again, when has the lt ever done anything on his own? Where is his will? His power is not his own. If the presence allows Lucifer to operate outside the laws of any universe, and Lucifer's will is as great as the presence's himself, I don't see Lt doing squat to Lucifer. He would probably get talked about and laughed at.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Bio says that the Lt represents something greater. It is not saying that he himself is greater. This means nothing.

Warlock destroys the hierarchy of representitives, except for LT ofcourse.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7635/ltrulesig10cf.th.jpg

With a gesture LT STOPS the IG ATTACK and RECREATES the Abstratcs
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7161/ltrecreatesqm2.th.jpg



Here he DETERMINES whether he HAD the power or NOT, he EVIDENTLY knew he did.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/619/ltrulesig37jm.th.jpg

After Warlock's "warning" of how powerful he was, LT STILL rules against him.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8108/ltrulesig44zu.th.jpg


Here LT acknowledges that it would take destroying this UNIVERSE in order to take the Gauntlet from Warlock, he's not hesitating, he's not feeling dubious about the outcome, he simply rather not have to obliterate a Reality (a Universe) to strip Adam of the IG.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6516/ltrulesig56ys.th.jpg

They BOTH knew the outcome before it started.
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3793/ltrulesig60qp.th.jpg

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And again, when has the lt ever done anything on his own? Where is his will? His power is not his own. If the presence allows Lucifer to operate outside the laws of any universe, and Lucifer's will is as great as the presence's himself, I don't see Lt doing squat to Lucifer. He would probably get talked about and laughed at.

Your first excuse was the bio doesn't say that.

Since the scans of him transforming the Surfer into a Universe was nitch to you

You read the bio and see the scans and now you give me this.

enuff.

In Lucifer #12, Lucifer killed Michael and then seemed to absorb the demiurgic power and then use that to create a whole Creation not just a universe (616 is a universe, the whole marvel omniverse would qualify as a Creation, for instance the DCU proper, the 4th World, the 5D imps world, etc all exist within that one Creation, all those infinite earths from before CoIE were all in that one creation, so is all of hypertime).

I don't think that in an all out reality destroying battle that the LT could kill Lucifer, but Lucifer could kill the LT. So basically 5.1/10 for Lucifer

Originally posted by thtadthtshldntb
In Lucifer #12, Lucifer killed Michael and then seemed to absorb the demiurgic power and then use that to create a whole Creation not just a universe (616 is a universe, the whole marvel omniverse would qualify as a Creation, for instance the DCU proper, the 4th World, the 5D imps world, etc all exist within that one Creation, all those infinite earths from before CoIE were all in that one creation, so is all of hypertime).

I don't think that in an all out reality destroying battle that the LT could kill Lucifer, but Lucifer could kill the LT. So basically 5.1/10 for Lucifer


Lucifer CREATED an Omni-verse?

Dude, then it's like Lucifer 14/10.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your first excuse was the bio doesn't say that.

Since the scans of him transforming the Surfer into a Universe was nitch to you

You read the bio and see the scans and now you give me this.

enuff.

NO I said his bio didn't say that he was more than anything. He represents higher powers. Have you had enuff?

Originally posted by galan7777777
in my oppinion yes! but like i said on these forums oppinions mean nothing if u cant back them up with facts......... and lucifer has been shown shaping a universe and all in it, while LT hasent..... Wait!!!!
So now your using his feats?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO I said his bio didn't say that he was more than anything. He represents higher powers. Have you had enuff?

Here I'll read it for ya...


"The Living Tribunal demonstrated that his power SURPASSED that of the Gems"
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5261/bitcw4.th.jpg

Original:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/349/ltbio6iypf1.th.jpg

Not only does he represent but he is.

Originally posted by thtadthtshldntb
In Lucifer #12, Lucifer killed Michael and then seemed to absorb the demiurgic power and then use that to create a whole Creation not just a universe (616 is a universe, the whole marvel omniverse would qualify as a Creation, for instance the DCU proper, the 4th World, the 5D imps world, etc all exist within that one Creation, all those infinite earths from before CoIE were all in that one creation, so is all of hypertime).

I don't think that in an all out reality destroying battle that the LT could kill Lucifer, but Lucifer could kill the LT. So basically 5.1/10 for Lucifer
DC have only been a universe since after the crisis.
And the dimention's are like floor's in a skyscrape (in comics).

Originally posted by Mr Master
Found my scans in another thread.


Here's the LT transforming the Silver Surfer into a Universe(SS#31 v3).
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7592/ltmakesss13fz.th.jpg

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/2751/ltmakesss21ek.th.jpg

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3725/ltmakesss31te.th.jpg

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/3281/ltmakesss43ro.th.jpg

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/3169/ltmakesss53se.th.jpg

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/3707/ltmakesss80mn.th.jpg

http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/4882/ltmakesss66ed.th.jpg nowhere in these scans does it say that LT transformed surfer into a universe u cant just assume that he was one, it looks more like a galaxy......

Originally posted by thtadthtshldntb
In Lucifer #12, Lucifer killed Michael and then seemed to absorb the demiurgic power and then use that to create a whole Creation not just a universe (616 is a universe, the whole marvel omniverse would qualify as a Creation, for instance the DCU proper, the 4th World, the 5D imps world, etc all exist within that one Creation, all those infinite earths from before CoIE were all in that one creation, so is all of hypertime).

I don't think that in an all out reality destroying battle that the LT could kill Lucifer, but Lucifer could kill the LT. So basically 5.1/10 for Lucifer and lucifer did not create an omniverse

Originally posted by galan7777777
and lucifer did not create an omniverse
It's not called an omni-verse, it's called the omni-verse.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
It's not called an omni-verse, it's called the omni-verse. i understand that........ trust me im very well "educated" on the lucifer comic line

Originally posted by galan7777777
i understand that........ trust me im very well "educated" on the lucifer comic line
Yeah, you should read a comic with the Living Tribunal for a change.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yeah, you should read a comic with the Living Tribunal for a change. hmmm, have u read LT comics or ru just agreeing with mr. master like always? if u read lucifer then u would know that he has shaped a universe and created countless lifeforms from nothingness........ LT has never been shown creating or even shaping a universe on pannel, and this is my only argument

Originally posted by galan7777777
hmmm, have u read LT comics or ru just agreeing with mr. master like always? if u read lucifer then u would know that he has shaped a universe and created countless lifeforms from nothingness........ LT has never been shown creating or even shaping a universe on pannel, and this is my only argument
UN removed the Multi-verse from existance.
And recreated it from nothing.
LT >> IG >> UN >> Multiverse >> Universe = Lucifer + Michael

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
UN removed the Multi-verse from existance.
And recreated it from nothing.
LT >> IG >> UN >> Multiverse >> Universe = Lucifer + Michael again ure assuming...... LT hasnt been shown actually creating a universe, because he has more authority then the IG and the UN dosent mean he can create a universe

Originally posted by galan7777777
again ure assuming...... LT hasnt been shown actually creating a universe, because he has more authority then the IG and the UN dosent mean he can create a universe
He is the Judge of the Multi-verse, not the builder (Multi-Eternity is).
Multi-Eternity uses a portion of his power to create a Eternity and a universe.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
He is the Judge of the Multi-verse, not the builder (Multi-Eternity is).
Multi-Eternity uses a portion of his power to create a Eternity and a universe. well then LT cant create a universe, thats multi eternitys job lol!

Originally posted by galan7777777
well then LT cant create a universe, thats multi eternitys job lol!
Multi-Eternity drops a spawn (Eternity) who becomes a universe.
LT >> Multi-Eternity >> Universe = Lucifer + Michael
Anything M-E can do LT can do it a lot better.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Multi-Eternity drops a spawn (Eternity) who becomes a universe.
LT >> Multi-Eternity >> Universe = Lucifer + Michael
Anything M-E can do LT can do it a lot better. and can u prove that LT can do anything better? or is this just more assumptions?

Originally posted by galan7777777
and can u prove that LT can do anything better? or is this just more assumptions?
An other good question is: Can you diss-prove it?

It's like this: Everything Lucifer can do Presence can do better.
Everything Multi-Eternity can do LT can do better.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
An other good question is: Can you diss-prove it?

It's like this: Everything Lucifer can do Presence can do better.
Everything Multi-Eternity can do LT can do better. i dont have to disprove something that has never been proven in the first place and as u said, everything lucifer can do, then presence can do it better, but but presence=TOAA, and LT is only under TOAA........so they are about the same ranking

Originally posted by galan7777777
i dont have to disprove something that has never been proven in the first place and as u said, everything lucifer can do, then presence can do it better, but but presence=TOAA, and LT is only under TOAA........so they are about the same ranking
The only time they were at the same ranking where when they appeared as the Blue Brother (TOAA) and the Red Brother (Presence) In DC vs Marvel #1.

I was refering to that everything Multi-Eternity can do, LT can do it better.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The only time they were at the same ranking where when they appeared as the Blue Brother (TOAA) and the Red Brother (Presence) In DC vs Marvel #1.

I was refering to that everything Multi-Eternity can do, LT can do it better. i understand that, but u cant compare multi eternity to the presence

Originally posted by galan7777777
i understand that, but u cant compare multi eternity to the presence
I compared Presnece and Lucifer to LT and M-E.
Because more powerful infinite beings can do anything lesser infnite can.

You say that Multi-Eternity is more powerful than Lucifer because creating a universe for M-E is easy, yet you claim that Lucifer who cannot make a universe out of own power would chop LT.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I compared Presnece and Lucifer to LT and M-E.
Because more powerful infinite beings can do anything lesser infnite can.

You say that Multi-Eternity is more powerful than Lucifer because creating a universe for M-E is easy, yet you claim that Lucifer who cannot make a universe out of own power would chop LT. lucifer could have created a universe anytime he saw fit, but the presence didnt allow him to, the only reason he shaped michaels power into one was because he won this gift from the presence himself, and the presence wanted the universe to be shaped in an already proven immage........ and we know that LT can judge M-E, but LT is hardly more powerful then ME

Originally posted by galan7777777
we know that LT can judge M-E, but LT is hardly more powerful then ME
You're kidding right?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You're kidding right? not at all....what has LT done that can remotely compare to M-E=infinity?

- I won't comment this, but I gotta warn you, someone will missprove you terrible.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
- I won't comment this, but I gotta warn you, someone will missprove you terrible. ohh u must mean your leader lol ....... the reason i say LT isnt more powerful is because we are arguing that LT has never been shown making a single universe, while multi eternity literally IS the entire multiverse.....wheres the logic in that?

Originally posted by galan7777777
and we know that LT can judge M-E, but LT is hardly more powerful then ME
bump*

The Living Tribunal. As cunning as Lucifer is, he doesn't have the necessary rawpower to defeat Living Tribunal.

i say its a draw

Originally posted by galan7777777
hmmm, have u read LT comics or ru just agreeing with mr. master like always?

Dude.

Keep my name out of your debates with others, especially when your vainly attempting to insult someone with in said debate.

I'm not diggin your korny ass anymore.

Your full of it.


I seen you sweatin GS's NUTS bigtime before.

Kept quiet about it, but you don't deserve that.

Matter of fact, your like a crummy GS clone, only NOTHING like GS in debating.

Your a very cheap imitation of him, and your knowledge on characters is weak to say the least.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude.

Keep my name out of your debates with others, especially when your vainly attempting to insult someone with in said debate.

I'm not diggin your korny ass anymore.

Your full of it.


I seen you sweatin GS's NUTS bigtime before.

Kept quiet about it, but you don't deserve that.

Matter of fact, your like a crummy GS clone, only NOTHING like GS in debating.

Your a very cheap imitation of him, and your knowledge on characters is weak to say the least. and yours is better, you have not proven me wrong one time........ and now u result to verbal slandering? its really quite pathetic

Originally posted by galan7777777
nowhere in these scans does it say that LT transformed surfer into a universe u cant just assume that he was one, it looks more like a galaxy......

Like "a galaxy"?

That's what the Living Tribunal meant by "CONNECTION to the INFINITE"
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9282/ltnk1.th.jpg

hysterical2


Come on kid...

Originally posted by galan7777777
and yours is better, you have not porven me wrong one time........ and now u result to verbal slandering? its really quite pathetic
He have proven you wrong, either your too dumb to see it, or too stubborn to admit it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Like "a galaxy"?

That's what the Living Tribunal meant by "CONNECTION to the INFINITE"
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9282/ltnk1.th.jpg

hysterical2


Come on kid... does it say he was transformed into a universe? he may have been, and he may not have been....... they left it up to the readers to decide this

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
He have proven you wrong, either your too dumb to see it, or too stubborn to admit it. thats your oppinion buddy

Originally posted by DeadshotHyaena
The Living Tribunal. As cunning as Lucifer is, he doesn't have the necessary rawpower to defeat Living Tribunal.

Does it take raw power to defeat someone?? No. Lucifer defeats gods in his moral form and powerless. That is like saying LT can defeat Eternity with no powers, which has never happened.

Originally posted by galan7777777
does it say he was transformed into a universe? he may have been, and he may not have been....... they left it up to the readers to decide this
Yet you havent read it...

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yet you havent read it... ok thanos, in all of ure infinate wisdom can u point out where is says that LT made surfer a universe? i doubt it.....

Originally posted by galan7777777
ok thanos, in all of ure infinate wisdom can u point out where is says that LT made surfer a universe? i doubt it.....
Let's just see it this way, it's easier:
Living Tribunal >> Multi-Eternity >> Univeres = Michael + Lucifers power combinded.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let's just see it this way, it's easier:
Living Tribunal >> Multi-Eternity >> Univeres = Michael + Lucifers power combinded. ok even though u avoided the question, lucifer and michaels combined power dosent stop at creating a universe, thats just all yahweh wanted lucifer to create

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let's just see it this way, it's easier:
Living Tribunal >> Multi-Eternity >> Univeres = Michael + Lucifers power combinded.

You really can't take an equation that works for marvel, and then try to use it to compare abstracts in DC. That is not how that works. Just becuz abc/nbc/and cbs are the three leading networks, doesn't mean that they all work the same, that they have the same philosophies, inner workings, or management style. But in the end, They all appear to be as big as the other. Your equation means little.

Originally posted by galan7777777
does it say he was transformed into a universe? he may have been, and he may not have been....... they left it up to the readers to decide this

Dude are you buggin?

I'll give it to ya like this now:

"Would you like a moment of GODHOOD"
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6844/lt2vi7.th.jpg

Originally posted by galan7777777
ok even though u avoided the question, lucifer and michaels combined power dosent stop at creating a universe, thats just all yahweh wanted lucifer to create
So why did he need Michael's help?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
So why did he need Michael's help? because yahweh wanted a universe to be created in an already proven image out of michaels power, in other words, yahweh didnt want lucifer making a universe that might rivel his own

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude are you buggin?

I'll give it to ya like this now:

"Would you like a moment of GODHOOD"
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6844/lt2vi7.th.jpg and godhood=an entire universe, where is that stated? lol and plz stop your slandering.....

Originally posted by galan7777777
because yahweh wanted a universe to be created in an already proven image out of michaels power, in other words, yahweh didnt want lucifer making a universe that might rivel his own
One of your favorite quotes: Proof please.

Originally posted by galan7777777
and godhood=an entire universe, where is that stated? lol and plz stop your slandering.....
To Marvel Godhood is this:
Godhood means to have power over all that is in the universe-Thanos(IG)
http://img189.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igequalgodhood3vc.jpg

If you won't take Thanos's word for it, perhaps UATU's will suffice.
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igisgodhood28rv.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude are you buggin?

I'll give it to ya like this now:

"Would you like a moment of GODHOOD"
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6844/lt2vi7.th.jpg


I could go to a homeless man, and say, "would you like to be rich for a day?" and give him a thousand bucks. That ain't shit to me. But to him, he would be. It's all relative. I'm not impressed in the way you are trying to make it. The surfer is a little being. It wouldn't take much to impress him. I bet Darksied wouldn't have thought that that was a big deal.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
One of your favorite quotes: Proof please. well in that case, give me proof that LT can either create or shape a universe, its a double edged sword.........and read up on lucifer and then get back to me, u obviously dont know what ure talking about where he is concerned

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I could go to a homeless man, and say, "would you like to be rich for a day?" and give him a thousand bucks. That ain't shit to me. But to him, he would be. It's all relative. I'm not impressed in the way you are trying to make it. The surfer is a little being. It wouldn't take much to impress him. I bet Darksied wouldn't have thought that that was a big deal.
So a 1,000 bucks aint a shit to you? - Yet you never been with that girl?
Wierd.

Originally posted by galan7777777
well in that case, give me proof that LT can either create or shape a universe, its a double edged sword.........and read up on lucifer and then get back to me, u obviously dont know what ure talking about where he is concerned
First post on this page.

Originally posted by galan7777777
and godhood=an entire universe, where is that stated? lol and plz stop your slandering.....


To Marvel Godhood is this:
Godhood means to have power over all that is in the universe-Thanos(IG)
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3171/igequalgodhood3vc.th.jpg
If you won't take Thanos's word for it, perhaps UATU's will suffice.
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/536/igisgodhood28rv.th.jpg


That's correct...GODHOOD = Infinity Gauntlet

Infinity Gauntlet = look below

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/1558/godhoodha4.th.jpg


ok now.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Let's just see it this way, it's easier:
Living Tribunal >> Multi-Eternity >> Univeres = Michael + Lucifers power combinded.

It has been shown that The Spectre = The Living Tribunal.
Michael-Lucifer > The Spectre which should mean > The Living Tribunal..

And yes I do agree with Mr. Master in some ways. He didn't make him into a universe, but he connected him with it.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
First post on this page. thats not proof, it does not say that LT made surfer a universe

Originally posted by kevdude
It has been shown that The Spectre = The Living Tribunal.
Michael-Lucifer > The Spectre which should mean > The Living Tribunal..

And yes I do agree with Mr. Master in some ways. He didn't make him into a universe, but he connected him with it.
Have it been shown? - "Prove it".
Living Tribunal is second only to the supreme being.
So is Lucifer.

Originally posted by galan7777777
thats not proof, it does not say that LT made surfer a universe
No it say that Godhood = you become "everything" in the universe. In other words a universe, you have trouble connecting things together.