Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

beyonder and anti - monitor are both in a crossplane anti - monitor has just destroyed a dc universe - and beyonder feels it as he crosses - so he goes there they begin a fight on planet qward - they can leave the planet.

who wins?

Originally posted by lilnutta12
beyonder and anti - monitor are both in a crossplane anti - monitor has just destroyed a dc universe - and beyonder feels it as he crosses - so he goes there they begin a fight on planet qward - they can leave the planet.

who wins?

The anti monitor collapses all the realities that the beyonder is and powers himself up even more

oh

is this pre retcon beyonder?

whats this here then

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The anti monitor collapses all the realities that the beyonder is and powers himself up even more do you really think monitor can beat per beyonder?

Originally posted by galan7777777
is this pre retcon beyonder?
his 2nd appearance the after he got battered by supergirl

if this is pre ret beyonder, then he would destroy anti-monitor with a gesture, i mean supergirl almost destroyed anti-monitor

no pre rets

The original post-retcon (most powerful in the race) will probobly win.
But if it is a simple Beyonder, than AM take this.

Originally posted by lilnutta12
no pre rets in that case id have to go with anti-monitor

why didnt supergirl beat AM - and Big G can beat supergirl right - so that means that Beyonder could win - i think so anyway - but if theres facts somebody can show me ill believe that monitor takes it

Originally posted by lilnutta12
why didnt supergirl beat AM - and Big G can beat supergirl right - so that means that Beyonder could win - i think so anyway - but if theres facts somebody can show me ill believe that monitor takes it supergirl really just cracked AM's shell, she couldnt destroy his essence...... he simply remade an entire new body

oh

Pre crisis krytonians are like freaking Galactus. They did stuff that by right only he and abstracts should be able to do. moving planets and destroying galaxies with sneezes and stuff. With that being said. the anti monitor stood up to dozens of precrisis krytonians, and other heroes, who were at the time, vastly over powered. The anti monitor had the power of all those universes with him self. He was as powerful as an infinite amount of universes. Basically the same description that the pre retcon beyonder had. That is why it was called crisis on infinite earths. He had destroyed all but 5 of them if I am remembering correctly.

Pre retcon Beyonder wins
the Beyonders dont

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Pre crisis krytonians are like freaking Galactus.

No they're not. They're overrated beyond belief. They aren't even skyfather level to begin.



Moving planets? Gladiator can move and destroy planets as well. So can Champion and first incarnation Drax destroy a planet. Star Dust can destroy planets.

When ever have any PC Kryptonians destroyed galaxies? PC Superman sneezed a solar system because of Mr Mxyzptlk's dust.



The Celestial Host beat down the pantheons of Earth. Even the Destroyer at the height of it's power, with ever Asgardian as it's host and wielding the Odin Sword couldn't really harm any of the Celestials. PR Beyonder gave the Celestials a physical beatdown just to show off.



His power was drained and Dr. Light put a hole in him. That's not exactly infinite in power. He mostly used his machine and canon to destroy those universes.



Nope. PR Beyonder played everybody and they couldn't do a thing to harm him. And it's called Crisis On Infinite Earth because DC have so many alternate universes that they wanted to retcon it. It's NOT Crisis of the Infinite Anti-Monitor.



Was that why he was drained and beaten by subskyfather level beings? None of the PC heroes came close to abstract level and they beat his ass.

PR Beyonder 10/10. No kidding.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
No they're not. They're overrated beyond belief. They aren't even skyfather level to begin.



Moving planets? Gladiator can move and destroy planets as well. So can Champion and first incarnation Drax destroy a planet. Star Dust can destroy planets.

When ever have any PC Kryptonians destroyed galaxies? PC Superman sneezed a solar system because of Mr Mxyzptlk's dust.



The Celestial Host beat down the pantheons of Earth. Even the Destroyer at the height of it's power, with ever Asgardian as it's host and wielding the Odin Sword couldn't really harm any of the Celestials. PR Beyonder gave the Celestials a physical beatdown just to show off.



His power was drained and Dr. Light put a hole in him. That's not exactly infinite in power. He mostly used his machine and canon to destroy those universes.



Nope. PR Beyonder played everybody and they couldn't do a thing to harm him. And it's called Crisis On Infinite Earth because DC have so many alternate universes that they wanted to retcon it. It's NOT Crisis of the Infinite Anti-Monitor.



Was that why he was drained and beaten by subskyfather level beings? None of the PC heroes came close to abstract level and they beat his ass.

PR Beyonder 10/10. No kidding. the maker of this thread specifically stated that its not pre-ret beyonder

Originally posted by galan7777777
the maker of this thread specifically stated that its not pre-ret beyonder

Missed the specification post. AM takes this.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

When ever have any PC Kryptonians destroyed galaxies? PC Superman sneezed a solar system because of Mr Mxyzptlk's dust.



The sneezing powder only made him sneeze. People below Supes were sneezing because of it but no solar systems were destroyed then.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6863/actioncomics27304ga3nu5.th.jpg

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
No they're not. They're overrated beyond belief. They aren't even skyfather level to begin.



Moving planets? Gladiator can move and destroy planets as well. So can Champion and first incarnation Drax destroy a planet. Star Dust can destroy planets.

When ever have any PC Kryptonians destroyed galaxies? PC Superman sneezed a solar system because of Mr Mxyzptlk's dust.



The Celestial Host beat down the pantheons of Earth. Even the Destroyer at the height of it's power, with ever Asgardian as it's host and wielding the Odin Sword couldn't really harm any of the Celestials. PR Beyonder gave the Celestials a physical beatdown just to show off.



His power was drained and Dr. Light put a hole in him. That's not exactly infinite in power. He mostly used his machine and canon to destroy those universes.



Nope. PR Beyonder played everybody and they couldn't do a thing to harm him. And it's called Crisis On Infinite Earth because DC have so many alternate universes that they wanted to retcon it. It's NOT Crisis of the Infinite Anti-Monitor.



Was that why he was drained and beaten by subskyfather level beings? None of the PC heroes came close to abstract level and they beat his ass.

PR Beyonder 10/10. No kidding.

You don't get what I"m saying. Pre-Crisis krytonians moved planets. Meaning Plural. They could move many planets at one time. They could punch threw time. This is abstract lvl displays of power. Yet The anti-monitor killed dozens of them. MOre in fact. He at the very height of his power was billions of universes strong. More than likely, he was probably the most powerful being the DCU ever faced.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You don't get what I"m saying. Pre-Crisis krytonians moved planets. Meaning Plural. They could move many planets at one time. They could punch threw time. This is abstract lvl displays of power.

Which Kryptonian were punching through time? Trion Juggernaut punched through space and he's not absract level.



Billions of universes? This came from where in COIE?

superboy prime punched through reality, does that count?

There was a story, where superman was bouncing thru time. I think it was called the man of Tomorrow. Superman was punching his way thru time trying to find his way home. It was like superman Goes to oz. it's the same story where superman got his ass handed to him by a daxamite. He also met the old los. the precrisis ones. the ones that looked full gronw but were teens. lol.

does superboy prime count? he altered reality by punching through the walls of reality

Originally posted by galan7777777
does superboy prime count? he altered reality by punching through the walls of reality

It was more like realities, and Time lines. Super boy prime cremed the corps. The corps combined is like a high end abstract being. He trashed them. yes, pre crisis krytonians were like abstract lvl beings. And the antimonitor beat dozens of them.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It was more like realities, and Time lines. Super boy prime cremed the corps. The corps combined is like a high end abstract being. He trashed them. yes, pre crisis krytonians were like abstract lvl beings. And the antimonitor beat dozens of them. thats what i thought

Originally posted by galan7777777
does superboy prime count? he altered reality by punching through the walls of reality

Like I've said, Trion Juggernaut can do the same. But he's not abstract level. Odin destroys galaxies and shakes the universe in several of his fights (against Infinity/evil Odin and Forsung) and even the multiverse (Seth). He's still not abstract level.

Post Retcon Beyonder and Cube Beings mess with reality and fight on different multiple planes, that still doesn't make them abstract. They're still below the Celestials.

Odin or Kubik could stump PC Kryptonian's as well. Like I've said PC Kryptonians are overrated.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Like I've said, Trion Juggernaut can do the same. But he's not abstract level. Odin destroys galaxies and shakes the universe in several of his fights (against Infinity/evil Odin and Forsung) and even the multiverse (Seth). He's still not abstract level.

Post Retcon Beyonder and Cube Beings mess with reality and fight on different multiple planes, that still doesn't make them abstract. They're still below the Celestials.

Odin or Kubik could stump PC Kryptonian's as well. Like I've said PC Kryptonians are overrated.

Super boy prime would beat the tar out of Odin. What OMG. You are so not serious are you?Super boy prime has no weakness to Magic. His strength is beyond calculatable. He breezed thru the corps like we walk thru air. He punched thru reality and time. He was moving so fast that he was heading to the center of the universe in a matter of seconds.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It was more like realities, and Time lines. Super boy prime cremed the corps. The corps combined is like a high end abstract being.



Superboy Prime didn't beat Parallax or Ion so let's not start. DD ran through the corps as well and he's leagues below the Celestials. Abstract?



Yes he did. But they are NOT abstracts. Odin, Franklin, and Kubik does crazy shit then that and they're still not abstract level.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Super boy prime would beat the tar out of Odin. What OMG. You are so not serious are you?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Super boy prime would beat the tar out of Odin. What OMG. You are so not serious are you?

Post scans please. Don't talk. I've posted scans for you and everyone in another thread. If you'd like to bring up SBP being Odin's superior, please show me the proof.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Post scans please. Don't talk. I've posted scans for you and everyone in another thread. If you'd like to bring up SBP being Odin's superior, please show me the proof.

ANd what can Odin do to superboy? PUnch him? Use his magic against him?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Super boy prime would beat the tar out of Odin. What OMG. You are so not serious are you?Super boy prime has no weakness to Magic. His strength is beyond calculatable. He breezed thru the corps like we walk thru air. He punched thru reality and time. He was moving so fast that he was heading to the center of the universe in a matter of seconds. Superboy Prime wasn't Pc superboy, so why is this being discussed?

Originally posted by bigbran
Superboy Prime wasn't Pc superboy, so why is this being discussed?

Becuz Superboy prime is just like the PC kryptonians.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Becuz Superboy prime is just like the PC kryptonians.
He's not PC though!
How the hell do you compare the whole Kryptnian race to him?

The only reason Superboy Prime could punch a hole through reality was beucase the wall of reality was right infront of him.
Superboy Prime breaking through the Phantom zone is a more impressive feat.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The only reason Superboy Prime could punch a hole through reality was beucase the wall of reality was right infront of him.
Superboy Prime breaking through the Phantom zone is a more impressive feat. Just like Phoenix holding the Universe?
Because the universe was already smaller than her, and phoenix did nothing to make it smaller.

Originally posted by bigbran
Just like Phoenix holding the Universe?
Because the universe was already smaller than her, and phoenix did nothing to make it smaller.
Dark Phoenix would rape Superboy Prime.
She'd even rape Superman Prime.

Every time SBP hits Odin. Odin teleports him to a new dimension. :P

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Dark Phoenix would rape Superboy Prime.
She'd even rape Superman Prime. It wasn't Dark Phoenix.

Originally posted by bigbran
It wasn't Dark Phoenix.
White Phoenix >> Dark Phoenix > Superman Prime >> Superboy Prime

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
White Phoenix >> Dark Phoenix > Superman Prime >> Superboy Prime Do you even have a clue what I'm talking about right now?

Sounds about right to me.

Originally posted by bigbran
Do you even have a clue what I'm talking about right now?
Yes... Superman Prime have a power of a star...
Phoenix have the power of countless star's...

And if necessery, she'll create a red-sun which would neutralize Superman's power.

Originally posted by bigbran
Just like Phoenix holding the Universe?
Because the universe was already smaller than her, and phoenix did nothing to make it smaller. I was just comparing the simularities of the feats, not the characters.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Dark Phoenix would rape Superboy Prime.
She'd even rape Superman Prime. I have no idea where Dark Phoenix came from. Originally posted by bigbran
It wasn't Dark Phoenix. Self expanitory.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
White Phoenix >> Dark Phoenix > Superman Prime >> Superboy Prime I know this, and yet, I really don't care.Originally posted by bigbran
Do you even have a clue what I'm talking about right now? Self Expanitory.Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yes... Superman Prime have a power of a star...
Phoenix have the power of countless star's...

And if necessery, she'll create a red-sun which would neutralize Superman's power. Clearly you didn't know what I was talking about because....Originally posted by bigbran
I was just comparing the simularities of the feats, not the characters.

Anti-Monitor. He was multiversal. Beyonder wasn't. At best, he only managed a pocket universe.

Originally posted by DeadshotHyaena
Anti-Monitor. He was multiversal. Beyonder wasn't. At best, he only managed a pocket universe.

Antimonitor was the master of his own antimatter universe... not multiverse..

Since this is with post-retcon Beyonder, Anti-Monitor takes this.

Post Beyonder is still powerful, he would be on the same level as LT. As long The Maker/Cosmos lives the Beyonder stays imprison, True Beyonder will F**k up AM.

It amazes me how much people know about marvel cosmics, and how they say this and that. but when someone says how powerful mxy is, they refuse to give him his credit. They talk about pre retcon beyonder even tho he has been retconned. and when someone mentions mxy in worlds funnest erasing the multi verse, oh that wasn't cannon. Even tho dc has stated that all else tales where cannon. I just dont' get it. and now, even tho, every one and thier mother knows that the anti monitor was not only eating universes, but absorbing thier power, people still say that he is just beaten. He who had the power of infinite universes is just beaten. OMG!! The hypocrisy is just overwhelming.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It amazes me how much people know about marvel cosmics, and how they say this and that. but when someone says how powerful mxy is, they refuse to give him his credit. They talk about pre retcon beyonder even tho he has been retconned. and when someone mentions mxy in worlds funnest erasing the multi verse, oh that wasn't cannon. Even tho dc has stated that all else tales where cannon. I just dont' get it. and now, even tho, every one and thier mother knows that the anti monitor was not only eating universes, but absorbing thier power, people still say that he is just beaten. He who had the power of infinite universes is just beaten. OMG!! The hypocrisy is just overwhelming.

Where did DC say Elseworld's is cannon.

Originally posted by rotiart
Where did DC say Elseworld's is cannon.


When the kingdom was published.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It amazes me how much people know about marvel cosmics, and how they say this and that. but when someone says how powerful mxy is, they refuse to give him his credit. They talk about pre retcon beyonder even tho he has been retconned. and when someone mentions mxy in worlds funnest erasing the multi verse, oh that wasn't cannon. Even tho dc has stated that all else tales where cannon. I just dont' get it. and now, even tho, every one and thier mother knows that the anti monitor was not only eating universes, but absorbing thier power, people still say that he is just beaten. He who had the power of infinite universes is just beaten. OMG!! The hypocrisy is just overwhelming. Or when people make a the Board is very Marvel Biased, and then they go in another thread and say this...
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Any precrisis Krytonian is easily abstract lvl. They can punch thru time, bend reality with thier fist, move many planets at one time. The anti monitor stood up to dozens of them.
Ya I hear ya. The things people say....

Originally posted by bigbran
Or when people make a the Board is very Marvel Biased, and then they go in another thread and say this...

Ya I hear ya. The things people say....

ur point?

Originally posted by bigbran
Or when people make a the Board is very Marvel Biased, and then they go in another thread and say this...

Ya I hear ya. The things people say....

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ur point? My point is, That because your obviously a DC fan, so when you see a DC character lose, your going to say things like Marvel runs this b!tch!
I thought the same thing in reverse when I first joined this place.

But then I read and seened some Dc, and ya, my opinion has changed. I'm neutral now, and I'll go against anyone that thinks like that.

And even if it was Marvel biased, DC obviously has more dedicated fans, and it evens out.

But when you also say things like Pc superman is an abstract level. It makes sense that you would see things like that.
I have also never seen you say a DC character would lose.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They talk about pre retcon beyonder even tho he has been retconned.

Retconned into a being that will collapse the Multi-verse with his death.

"to rend the Life Force of such a being as the Beyonder"
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1825/beyonderandmmbattleagain3mu7.th.jpg
"Havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography"


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and when someone mentions mxy in worlds funnest erasing the multi verse, oh that wasn't cannon.

Well, because it isn't, it's a joke.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It amazes me how much people know about marvel cosmics, and how they say this and that.

I only say what's on panel.

Originally posted by bigbran
My point is, That because your obviously a DC fan, so when you see a DC character lose, your going to say things like Marvel runs this b!tch!
I thought the same thing in reverse when I first joined this place.

But then I read and seened some Dc, and ya, my opinion has changed. I'm neutral now, and I'll go against anyone that thinks like that.

And even if it was Marvel biased, DC obviously has more dedicated fans, and it evens out.

But when you also say things like Pc superman is an abstract level. It makes sense that you would see things like that.
I have also never seen you say a DC character would lose.

ur wrong, read more forums. I say Dc characters loose when they should loose.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Retconned into a being that will collapse the Multi-verse with his death.

"to rend the Life Force of such a being as the Beyonder"
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1825/beyonderandmmbattleagain3mu7.th.jpg
"Havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography"




Well, because it isn't, it's a joke.




I only say what's on panel. I see Mr Master still holding it down.

Originally posted by bigbran
My point is, That because your obviously a DC fan, so when you see a DC character lose, your going to say things like Marvel runs this b!tch!
I thought the same thing in reverse when I first joined this place.

But then I read and seened some Dc, and ya, my opinion has changed. I'm neutral now, and I'll go against anyone that thinks like that.

And even if it was Marvel biased, DC obviously has more dedicated fans, and it evens out.

But when you also say things like Pc superman is an abstract level. It makes sense that you would see things like that.
I have also never seen you say a DC character would lose.

And I do believe PC superman to be abstract. He really was able to do anything he wanted. He was totally unkillable. He represented the most powerful being in the cosmos at the time. he was a force of nature. PC superman probably could have been written to stalemate galactus. SO yeah, to me he was abstract. NO being in comics should have even had the might that he had unless they were abstract. Moving entire freaking solar systems and sneezing away planets is just rediculous,.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And I do believe PC superman to be abstract. He really was able to do anything he wanted. He was totally unkillable. He represented the most powerful being in the cosmos at the time. he was a force of nature. PC superman probably could have been written to stalemate galactus. SO yeah, to me he was abstract. NO being in comics should have even had the might that he had unless they were abstract. Moving entire freaking solar systems and sneezing away planets is just rediculous,.

He was also able to blow away planets with his breath, as well as close, move, destroy, and create dimensions and universes by vibrating.

He also had complete mastery of time and speed, able to travel trillions of times the speed of light as pc superboy no less, well at the same time as stated on panel being able to travel across countless universes in under a second.

He was also able to change and adjust the future by punching.

At PC supermans best showings he was multiversal, a prime example of this is when PC Superboy raced PC Supergirl across countless universes at trillions of times the speed of light in a PLAYFUL (not even exerting himself) game of tag.

Originally posted by Jesse7
He was also able to blow away planets with his breath, as well as close, move, destroy, and create dimensions and universes by vibrating.

He also had complete mastery of time and speed, able to travel trillions of times the speed of light as pc superboy no less, well at the same time as stated on panel being able to travel across countless universes in under a second.

He was also able to change and adjust the future by punching.
DC got carried away with Pre crisis supers. And the fact that the AM defeated so many of these beings is testament to his power. I bet 5 Pre crisis kryptonians could beat the marvel and dcu's earth's combined. Especially if they had SBP to kill allt he mages. lol.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I bet 5 Pre crisis kryptonians could beat the marvel and dcu's earth's combined. Especially if they had SBP to kill allt he mages. lol.

hysterical2

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I see Mr Master still holding it down.

The anti monitor absorbs the beyonder and powers himself up a LITTLE more. Pre retcon would make The AM Twice as strong. Since they both literally have the same kind of description. One absorbed infinite universes. One was everything out side of the mu. (dont know how you manage to be outside of the very thing ur created in but what ever). The Am's Goal was to collapse reality. If killing the beyonder serves that goal, he would simply do it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The anti monitor absorbs the beyonder and powers himself up a LITTLE more. Pre retcon would make The AM Twice as strong. Since they both literally have the same kind of description. One absorbed infinite universes. One was everything out side of the mu. (dont know how you manage to be outside of the very thing ur created in but what ever). The Am's Goal was to collapse reality. If killing the beyonder serves that goal, he would simply do it.

Well I like Supes, but I say Pre-Retcon beyonder completely erases the AM, because the Pre-Retcon beyonder was the writter/s in the comic themselves. Comic Writters>Comic characters, the PR beyonder was stated to be the representation of the writters in the comic in that they could do they anything and that they were beyond anything in the comic thus the name "The Beyonder". this was stated by Jim Shooter the creator of Secret Wars and the beyonder.

PR Beyonder over AM.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ur wrong, read more forums. I say Dc characters loose when they should loose. So you just ignore that whole post, just to go for one statement?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And I do believe PC superman to be abstract. He really was able to do anything he wanted. He was totally unkillable. He represented the most powerful being in the cosmos at the time. he was a force of nature. PC superman probably could have been written to stalemate galactus. SO yeah, to me he was abstract. NO being in comics should have even had the might that he had unless they were abstract. Moving entire freaking solar systems and sneezing away planets is just rediculous,. ^^^^^
Thats your opinion.
But he also got beaten down by Pc darkseid, a Daximite, etc.
I bet you also consider those beings, an abstract too.
It takes more than those feats to equate into an abstract.

Lets take Galactus and Tyrant into consideration. In there first battle, they destroyed quite a few Galaxies. Just by fighting.
Would I consider them an abstract? The answer is no.
Full power Galactus would be an equal to Eternity. He wouldn't be an abstract, but he would be at a level for it.

Eternity= universe.
Death= Death.
Infinty=Space and Time.
etc. you get the point.

Now what does Superman equal?( since you believe him to an abstract, instead of an abstract level)

Eternity would pimpslap, someone like Odin, a skyfather level.
Or Tyrant, or a normal power Galactus.
Eternity has also created the Celestials, who have curbstomped all Skyfathers, and a super powered Destroyer.
Is PC superman on a Celestial level too? Which is also lower than Galactus, which is also lower than Eternity.
No! It takes more than blowing away a galxy to be an abstract level( or as you called him, an actual Abstract!)Originally posted by Jesse7
He was also able to blow away planets with his breath, as well as close, move, destroy, and create dimensions and universes by vibrating.

He also had complete mastery of time and speed, able to travel trillions of times the speed of light as pc superboy no less, well at the same time as stated on panel being able to travel across countless universes in under a second.

He was also able to change and adjust the future by punching.

At PC supermans best showings he was multiversal, a prime example of this is when PC Superboy raced PC Supergirl across countless universes at trillions of times the speed of light in a PLAYFUL (not even exerting himself) game of tag. Proof is nice! Some of these statements seem quite false, and I am pretty sure that I shouldn't believe them.
I don't recall him ever creating a universe, at any time.

And, Eternity is a Universe. So ya, that should top Supes right there. And he is also, an on panel abstract

Originally posted by Jesse7
Well I like Supes, but I say Pre-Retcon beyonder completely erases the AM, because the Pre-Retcon beyonder was the writter/s in the comic themselves. Comic Writters>Comic characters, the PR beyonder was stated to be the representation of the writters in the comic in that they could do they anything and that they were beyond anything in the comic thus the name "The Beyonder". this was stated by Jim Shooter the creator of Secret Wars and the beyonder.

PR Beyonder over AM.

AM was the more than the writer. AM was the editorial descision to destroy the multi verse. NUFF SAID.

Originally posted by bigbran
So you just ignore that whole post, just to go for one statement?
^^^^^
Thats your opinion.
But he also got beaten down by Pc darkseid, a Daximite, etc.
I bet you also consider those beings, an abstract too.
It takes more than those feats to equate into an abstract.

Lets take Galactus and Tyrant into consideration. In there first battle, they destroyed quite a few Galaxies. Just by fighting.
Would I consider them an abstract? The answer is no.
Full power Galactus would be an equal to Eternity. He wouldn't be an abstract, but he would be at a level for it.

Eternity= universe.
Death= Death.
Infinty=Space and Time.
etc. you get the point.

Now what does Superman equal?( since you believe him to an abstract, instead of an abstract level)

Eternity would pimpslap, someone like Odin, a skyfather level.
Or Tyrant, or a normal power Galactus.
Eternity has also created the Celestials, who have curbstomped all Skyfathers, and a super powered Destroyer.
Is PC superman on a Celestial level too? Which is also lower than Galactus, which is also lower than Galactus.
No! It takes more than blowing away a galxy to be an abstract level( or as you called him, an actual Abstract!) Proof is nice! Some of these statements seem quite false, and I am pretty sure that I shouldn't believe them.
I don't recall him ever creating a universe, at any time.

And, Eternity is a Universe. So ya, that should top Supes right there. And he is also, an on panel abstract

PC Supes contradicted his character alot, or to say more accurately, the writters contradicted Supermans character alot by catering to whatever was needed at the time; press, publicity, movies, twinkies, etc.

But at PC supes best showings he was multiversal, a few examples I can think of that show this is when PC Superboy was able to travel across countless (I dont remember the number it gave or if it said countless) universes at some rediculous level of times the speed of light in a playful game of tag with pc super girl, o and about Supes being able to destroy universes he did this when vibrating his molecules at the right frequency to permanently destroy bridging universes/realities to trap opponents in other universes/realities.

Originally posted by bigbran
So you just ignore that whole post, just to go for one statement?
^^^^^
Thats your opinion.
But he also got beaten down by Pc darkseid, a Daximite, etc.
I bet you also consider those beings, an abstract too.
It takes more than those feats to equate into an abstract.

Lets take Galactus and Tyrant into consideration. In there first battle, they destroyed quite a few Galaxies. Just by fighting.
Would I consider them an abstract? The answer is no.
Full power Galactus would be an equal to Eternity. He wouldn't be an abstract, but he would be at a level for it.

Eternity= universe.
Death= Death.
Infinty=Space and Time.
etc. you get the point.

Now what does Superman equal?( since you believe him to an abstract, instead of an abstract level)

Eternity would pimpslap, someone like Odin, a skyfather level.
Or Tyrant, or a normal power Galactus.
Eternity has also created the Celestials, who have curbstomped all Skyfathers, and a super powered Destroyer.
Is PC superman on a Celestial level too? Which is also lower than Galactus, which is also lower than Eternity.
No! It takes more than blowing away a galxy to be an abstract level( or as you called him, an actual Abstract!) Proof is nice! Some of these statements seem quite false, and I am pretty sure that I shouldn't believe them.
I don't recall him ever creating a universe, at any time.

And, Eternity is a Universe. So ya, that should top Supes right there. And he is also, an on panel abstract

precrisis superman was easily abstract in power. He was more powerful than many abstracts we see in comics today. he was waaaaaay over powered. and one reason he was locked up in a crytal cube for eternity is becuz he was too hard to write for. what can you do with galactus in a cape? nothing.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Pre retcon would make The AM Twice as strong.

PRB blinks Am away.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
One absorbed infinite universes.

"Infinite"?

And he was taken out by heroes


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
One was everything out side of the mu. (dont know how you manage to be outside of the very thing ur created in but what ever).

"Everything OUTSIDE the Multi-verse (Which is TRULY Infinite)

And he wasn't created inside the Multi-verse, he always was, OUTSIDE the Multi-verse.

His level of Power:

Millions of Times More Powerful than ALL the Rest of the Multiverse Combined.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
AM was the more than the writer. AM was the editorial descision to destroy the multi verse. NUFF SAID. So the staff also is weaker than Spectre?
I'm sorry, but if that doesn't make you extremely Dc fantoyish, then I don't know what would?
The fact, that you got beat, and then you make up something to top the Marvel character, would seem that you shouldn't be making Marvel Biased threads.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
AM was the more than the writer. AM was the editorial descision to destroy the multi verse. NUFF SAID.

Ok.

Let's just compare their feats, and respectfully agree on a winner, when we see who outclasses the other.

Originally posted by bigbran
So the staff also is weaker than Spectre?
I'm sorry, but if that doesn't make you extremely Dc fantoyish, then I don't know what would?
The fact, that you got beat, and then you make up something to top the Marvel character, would seem that you shouldn't be making Marvel Biased threads.

And saying that the beyonder is every thing outside of the marvel universe doesn't make someone a marvel fanboy. Marvel doesn't have the power to create a being to represent things outside of thier wrealm. And i'm not beat. how am I beat? The AM was a decsion to retool the entire DCU. By thier feats of effects on thier companies, the AM has the beyonder beat 8 ways to sunday. The AM's power and effects are still felt today. The beyonder was a two bit cross over plot device that didn't have the impact on marvel that the AM had on DC. If the beyonder is the power of the writer, he is truly outclassed by the AM. The AM's writer has shown a considerably greater deal of power in the fact that his character changed an entire company and the effects lasted in three company wide cross overs. THE AM Wins since people want to use the real world effects of the beyonder. I'm going to use the real world effects of the AM. AM FTW. Now fan boy that!!

Originally posted by Jesse7
PC Supes contradicted his character alot, or to say more accurately, the writters contradicted Supermans character alot by catering to whatever was needed at the time; press, publicity, movies, twinkies, etc.

But at PC supes best showings he was multiversal, a few examples I can think of that show this is when PC Superboy was able to travel across countless (I dont remember the number it gave or if it said countless) universes at some rediculous level of times the speed of light in a playful game of tag with pc super girl, o and about Supes being able to destroy universes he did this when vibrating his molecules at the right frequency to permanently destroy bridging universes/realities to trap opponents in other universes/realities. How does racing through universes make you multiversal?
I also said proof would be nice, in case you missed that.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
precrisis superman was easily abstract in power. He was more powerful than many abstracts we see in comics today. he was waaaaaay over powered. and one reason he was locked up in a crytal cube for eternity is becuz he was too hard to write for. what can you do with galactus in a cape? nothing. Now for you...
Tell me some feats of Eternity!
Quick, come on.
You can't really, so how was he ever shown more powerful than the abstracts? He's more powerful, that all of Death, He's more powerful than any character in 616, cause Eternity is until G absorbs his world ship. He's more powerful than space and time, correct me if I'm wrong here. He's not an Abstract level, and he certanly isn't an abstract. To be an Abstract would have him representing something.
It's bad enough to claim and Abstract level, but to actually say he's an abstract....wow!

I bet that Daximite, was also more powerful than a universe....

Oh and did you even read half the stuff, I wrote before you made that redicules statement.

Originally posted by bigbran
How does racing through universes make you multiversal?
I also said proof would be nice, in case you missed that. Now for you...
Tell me some feats of Eternity!
Quick, come on.
You can't really, so how was he ever shown more powerful than the abstracts? He's more powerful, that all of Death, He's more powerful than any character in 616, cause Eternity is until G absorbs his world ship. He's more powerful than space and time, correct me if I'm wrong here. He's not an Abstract level, and he certanly isn't an abstract. To be an Abstract would have him representing something.
It's bad enough to claim and Abstract level, but to actually say he's an abstract....wow!

I bet that Daximite, was also more powerful than a universe....

Oh and did you even read half the stuff, I wrote before you made that redicules statement.

PC Supes contradicted his character alot, or to say more accurately, the writters contradicted Supermans character alot by catering to whatever was needed at the time; press, publicity, movies, twinkies, etc.

But at PC supes best showings he was multiversal, a few examples I can think of that show this is when PC Superboy was able to travel across countless (I dont remember the number it gave or if it said countless) universes at some rediculous level of times the speed of light in a playful game of tag with pc super girl, o and about Supes being able to destroy universes he did this when vibrating his molecules at the right frequency to permanently destroy bridging universes/realities to trap opponents in other universes/realities.


Pc Supes at his top showings was multiversal Bigbran.

P.S. This isn't PC Supes vs Eternity, so lets get back on topic.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And saying that the beyonder is every thing outside of the marvel universe doesn't make someone a marvel fanboy. Marvel doesn't have the power to create a being to represent things outside of thier wrealm. And i'm not beat. how am I beat? The AM was a decsion to retool the entire DCU. By thier feats of effects on thier companies, the AM has the beyonder beat 8 ways to sunday. The AM's power and effects are still felt today. The beyonder was a two bit cross over plot device that didn't have the impact on marvel that the AM had on DC. If the beyonder is the power of the writer, he is truly outclassed by the AM. The AM's writer has shown a considerably greater deal of power in the fact that his character changed an entire company and the effects lasted in three company wide cross overs. THE AM Wins since people want to use the real world effects of the beyonder. I'm going to use the real world effects of the AM. AM FTW. Now fan boy that!!
Bump

Galactus respents force of nature, LT stated something like that when was telling the the stranger his place in the universe, since he was the fourth face of LT. Galactus respents balance of life and death in the universe.

Multiversal or not, both PC superman and Antimonitor got knocked around. PRBeyonder was never hurt by anyone that he didn't let hurt him. If he didn't give you the ability to hurt him, you couldn't. The most powerful in the multiverse did little more than tickle him.

Darkseids OB "crippled" AM.

AM didn't affect change through the multiverse through his own power. He used devices to do it.

A mere thought from Beyonder caused changes in the multiverse. He didn't even exert himself...

So lets see... Beyonder thinks it... and it happens... AM has to construct devices to pull it off, and ended up almost getting his defeat handed to him by a girl...

PRB wins.
PostRB is closer, but still wins.

Originally posted by Mr Master
PRB blinks Am away.



"Infinite"?

And he was taken out by heroes




"Everything OUTSIDE the Multi-verse (Which is TRULY Infinite)

And he wasn't created inside the Multi-verse, he always was, OUTSIDE the Multi-verse.

His level of Power:

Millions of Times More Powerful than ALL the Rest of the Multiverse Combined.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg


Mr. Master keep it coming with evidences, I don't think they realize what they they are talking about.

Originally posted by rotiart
Multiversal or not, both PC superman and Antimonitor got knocked around. PRBeyonder was never hurt by anyone that he didn't let hurt him. If he didn't give you the ability to hurt him, you couldn't. The most powerful in the multiverse did little more than tickle him.

Darkseids OB "crippled" AM.

AM didn't affect change through the multiverse through his own power. He used devices to do it.

A mere thought from Beyonder caused changes in the multiverse. He didn't even exert himself...

So lets see... Beyonder thinks it... and it happens... AM has to construct devices to pull it off, and ended up almost getting his defeat handed to him by a girl...

PRB wins.
PostRB is closer, but still wins.

The AM changed the face of a company for over 20 years. He has pre retcon beyonder beat by feats. FOR REAL. The beyonder does not compare.

Originally posted by rotiart
Multiversal or not, both PC superman and Antimonitor got knocked around. PRBeyonder was never hurt by anyone that he didn't let hurt him. If he didn't give you the ability to hurt him, you couldn't. The most powerful in the multiverse did little more than tickle him.

Darkseids OB "crippled" AM.

AM didn't affect change through the multiverse through his own power. He used devices to do it.

A mere thought from Beyonder caused changes in the multiverse. He didn't even exert himself...

So lets see... Beyonder thinks it... and it happens... AM has to construct devices to pull it off, and ended up almost getting his defeat handed to him by a girl...

PRB wins.
PostRB is closer, but still wins.

Um this debate is AM VS PR Beyonder, not Supes, and as I stated Supes was multiversal at his best showings, but I have said multiple times the PR Beyonder beats the AM.

Secondly, your saying that post retcon beyonder can beat let alone chalenge the AM? The AM far surpasses post retcon beyonder.

But as for the topic which is PRE RETCON BEYONDER VS ANTI-MONITOR, I say Pre Beyonder 10/10

Even Thanos didn't want too unleashed the Beyonder after he defeated the maker and that alone tells you alot. Post Beyonder is still powerful enogh to make AM his lap dog.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Um this debate is AM VS PR Beyonder, not Supes, and as I stated Supes was multiversal at his best showings, but I have said multiple times the PR Beyonder beats the AM.

Secondly, your saying that post retcon beyonder can beat let alone chalenge the AM? The AM far surpasses post retcon beyonder.

But as for the topic which is PRE RETCON BEYONDER VS ANTI-MONITOR, I say Pre Beyonder 10/10

no he doesnt'. If Pre retcon is the representation of the writer, then the AM has the beyonder beat hands down. The beyonders effects on the universe have nothing on the effects of the AM and his effects upon the universe.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Even Thanos didn't want too unleashed the Beyonder after he defeated the maker and that alone tells you alot. Post Beyonder is still powerful enogh to make AM his lap dog.

I'm with this guy

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And saying that the beyonder is every thing outside of the marvel universe doesn't make someone a marvel fanboy. Find a quote where I ever said anything remotely close to what you just said.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Marvel doesn't have the power to create a being to represent things outside of thier wrealm. And where has DC shown this? In case your going to say what I think your going to say.
Beyonder, Mephesto, etc.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And i'm not beat. how am I beat? Well if this was a spelling competition, you would have been beat a couple of pages ago., but seriously. Jesse beat you when he/she/it said that Beyonder had the power of the writer. So you made up something to upstage it.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The AM was a decsion to retool the entire DCU. By thier feats of effects on thier companies, the AM has the beyonder beat 8 ways to sunday. Getting hammered by Supergirl, Dr Light, sure beats Beyonder's feats. Oh whoops sorry, all of these characters are abstracts, right? Well Beyonder had all the abstracts shaking in there spandex, and if they would have attacked him, they would have been put in there place. Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The AM's power and effects are still felt today. The beyonder was a two bit cross over plot device that didn't have the impact on marvel that the AM had on DC. Well duh!!! Beyonder was retconned!!! AM wasn't, so you do the math.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If the beyonder is the power of the writer, he is truly outclassed by the AM. The AM's writer has shown a considerably greater deal of power in the fact that his character changed an entire company and the effects lasted in three company wide cross overs. THE AM Wins since people want to use the real world effects of the beyonder. How does making a lasting effect, make you have the power of the writers? Tell me where the whole staff gets beat by spectre, or when they get holes in them by Normal DC characters at the time. And Beyonder has on panel said to be one million times more powerful than the Multiverse, combined!
Since you insist on using you made up logic, I might as well use mine:

Beyonder has the full backing of everyone who has ever been involved in Marvel, but he only got beat by Molecule man( since you ignore other showings. I might as well too.)
Dude, don't make up stuff like this! It's redicules!Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Or better yet, the whole staff? I'm going to use the real world effects of the AM. AM FTW. Now fan boy that!! Ya....

Pre rec Beyonder was like the answer to PC Superman bullsh** to the billionth power.

Post Beyonder is still feared threw out the Multi universe.

Um when did Thanos not want to unleash the Beyonder? Their is no more pre-retrcon beyonder, only post retcon now which has been explained everything he saw and did was an illusion, by the way LT defeated the post retcon beyonder.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And saying that the beyonder is every thing outside of the marvel universe doesn't make someone a marvel fanboy.

Everything OUTSIDE the Multi-verse:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg

And Everything INSIDE the Multi-verse:
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8379/beyonderisrealitydw2.th.jpg


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Marvel doesn't have the power to create a being to represent things outside of thier wrealm.

Don't be silly and think when I said "Everything OUTSIDE the Multi-verse I meant DC or any other company,

Beyonder was Everything OUTSIDE the Multi-verse in MARVEL.

Until Nov. 1986 Marvel had the Multi-verse and the Beyond Realm (everything outside the Multi-verse) which was introduced in May 1984

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The AM was a decsion to retool the entire DCU. By thier feats of effects on thier companies, the AM has the beyonder beat 8 ways to sunday. The AM's power and effects are still felt today.The beyonder was a two bit cross over plot device that didn't have the impact on marvel that the AM had on DC. If the beyonder is the power of the writer, he is truly outclassed by the AM. The AM's writer has shown a considerably greater deal of power in the fact that his character changed an entire company and the effects lasted in three company wide cross overs. THE AM Wins since people want to use the real world effects of the beyonder. I'm going to use the real world effects of the AM. AM FTW.

If you wanna put it that way:


All this rolled with continuity:

Spider Man's black suit to THIS day, is in effect

Molecule Man realizing his potential

The Thing reverts back to human for the first time ever and is able to control it

Colossus falls out of love with Kitty

The Lizard loses his powers

Volcana is created by Doom

Titania is created by Doom

SpiderWoman's first appearance


This is off the top of my head, I could go on like a madman, but you get me.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Pre rec Beyonder was like the answer to PC Superman bullsh** to the billionth power.

Post Beyonder is still feared threw out the Multi universe.

Um no he isn't, post retcon beyonder was retconned that everything he did and saw was an illusion created by himself, that and the abstracts played along to the illusion, so technically their is no pre-retcon beyonder.

P.S. The universe does not fear post retcon beyonder, the LT took care of him, as in put him in his place.

P.S.S. I know that Pre-Retcon beyonder doesn't technically exist, but this debate is Pre Ret beyonder Vs AM so we are to take Pre Ret as if what he did was real.

Originally posted by Jesse7
PC Supes contradicted his character alot, or to say more accurately, the writters contradicted Supermans character alot by catering to whatever was needed at the time; press, publicity, movies, twinkies, etc.

But at PC supes best showings he was multiversal, a few examples I can think of that show this is when PC Superboy was able to travel across countless (I dont remember the number it gave or if it said countless) universes at some rediculous level of times the speed of light in a playful game of tag with pc super girl, o and about Supes being able to destroy universes he did this when vibrating his molecules at the right frequency to permanently destroy bridging universes/realities to trap opponents in other universes/realities.


Pc Supes at his top showings was multiversal Bigbran.

P.S. This isn't PC Supes vs Eternity, so lets get back on topic. Ummm, no he wasn't!
This is the first I have ever heard of this, supposed multiversal.
Oh and you ignored my first sentence.
So I'll lay it out right here.
How does racing through universes, make you multiversal?

Oh and when has this happened?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Everything OUTSIDE the Multi-verse:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg

And Everything INSIDE the Multi-verse:
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8379/beyonderisrealitydw2.th.jpg




Don't be silly and think when I said "Everything OUTSIDE the Multi-verse I meant DC or any other company,

Beyonder was Everything OUTSIDE the Multi-verse in MARVEL.

Until Nov. 1986 Marvel had the Multi-verse and the Beyond Realm (everything outside the Multi-verse) which was introduced in May 1984



If you wanna put it that way:


All this rolled with continuity:

Spider Man's black suit to THIS day, is in effect

Molecule Man realizing his potential

The Thing reverts back to human for the first time ever and is able to control it

Colossus falls out of love with Kitty

The Lizard loses his powers

Volcana is created by Doom

Titania is created by Doom

SpiderWoman's first appearance


This is off the top of my head, I could go on like a madman, but you get me.

The list does not compare to an entire retooling of the DC universe.

Originally posted by bigbran
Find a quote where I ever said anything remotely close to what you just said. And where has DC shown this? In case your going to say what I think your going to say.
Beyonder, Mephesto, etc. Well if this was a spelling competition, you would have been beat a couple of pages ago., but seriously. Jesse beat you when he/she/it said that Beyonder had the power of the writer. So you made up something to upstage it. Getting hammered by Supergirl, Dr Light, sure beats Beyonder's feats. Oh whoops sorry, all of these characters are abstracts, right? Well Beyonder had all the abstracts shaking in there spandex, and if they would have attacked him, they would have been put in there place. Well duh!!! Beyonder was retconned!!! AM wasn't, so you do the math.How does making a lasting effect, make you have the power of the writers? tell me where the whole staff gets beat by spectre, or when they get holes in them by Normal DC characters at the time. And Beyonder has on panel said to be one million times more powerful than the Multiverse, combined!
Since you insist on using you made up logic, I might as well use mine:

Beyonder has the full backing of everyone who has ever been involved in Marvel, but he only got beat by Molecule man( since you ignore other showings. I might as well too.)
Dude, don't make up stuff like this! It's redicules! Ya....

damn man, that was .

Originally posted by Jesse7
Um when did Thanos not want to unleash the Beyonder? Their is no more pre-retrcon beyonder, only post retcon now which has been explained everything he saw and did was an illusion,

I'm gonna have to go with Dark on this Jess.

I'll explain everything here:


Owen Reece in NOT a Cosmic Cube anymore.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1980/mmisnotcubejj5.th.jpg
His power has reached a potential that seems to rival Pre-retcon Molecule Man.

Owen Reece has TWO personalities, a passive limited side that makes him:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4217/mmlm0.th.jpg
"One of the MOST Powerful beings in the Universe"

Owen Reece's OTHER side is the unlimited potential personified that he has.
This other side is called Molecule Man...and this is what that looks like.

Owen Reece (POST-Molecule Man)...becomes Evil Molecule Man
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/60/evilmmak8.th.jpg
http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/3382/evilmm2mu1.th.jpg

When insane/evil Molecule Man manifested out of Owen Reece, he went out to find POST-Retcon Beyonder to kill him out of revenge.

Insane/evil Molecule Man is something like Pre-retcon Molecule Man,
Multi-versal for sure...
since his separation from the Cosmic Cube, his power has reached levels that are unimaginable to Cosmic Cubes.

Post-retcon Molecule Man is a MONSTER!
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1747/mmdm6.th.jpg
Molecule Man actually extracts the essence of the Beyonder that's within Kosmos from Earth.

"power unimaginable...it's reaching through time and space"
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7558/kosmos1rz5.th.jpg
"ripping the essence of that being from me"

"My Soul...Gone"
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3924/kosmos2pj4.th.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8664/kosmos3hc6.th.jpg
"Is this death"?

Continues...


"Who dares summon the Beyonder from Oblivion?
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5473/kosmos4bx9.th.jpg
"I dare behold me...and despair"

"a conflict spanning PLANES of existence"
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6189/kosmos05nl3.th.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9467/kosmos5cc6.th.jpghttp://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7718/kosmos6pp8.th.jpg
"a battle in which the laws of physics are tortured beyond recognition and eventually shattered"

Molecule Man: "there are Infinities Beyond your limited perception"

"from the Quantum to the Trans-Multiversal, Reality trembles as the forces unleashed reverberate through out creation"
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5499/beyonderandmmbattleagainbp6.th.jpghttp://img90.imageshack.us/img90/999/beyonderandmmbattlesagain2rv5.th.jpg
Realize how ALL Reality (in the Multi-verse) is being affected because of them, (both are POST-Retcon).

A WATCHER even goes blind in another Universe.

And the FlatLand Reality is completely Warped, from a Two Dimensional Universe to a Three Dimensional Universe.

Continues...


Now part of the retcon of the Beyonder, is that he was made an intrinsic part of the Multi-verse.

"to rend the Life Force of such a being as the Beyonder"
"Havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography"
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1825/beyonderandmmbattleagain3mu7.th.jpg

At first, some of us thought this was nonsense since the Maker (current incarnation of the Beyonder) was seemingly dead during the Annihilation series.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4107/makernotdead00tl6.th.jpg

I began to turn pages and found this out: The Maker is NOT dead at all...

This is how the Maker ended up "Dead"...
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4551/makernotdeadej3.th.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6416/makernotdead0bl8.th.jpg
Beyonder, (Maker) still imposing limitations like his PRE era, takes on Mortal Form.


"The Mind is Dead...Do NOT kill the body"...This is in order to keep the essence of the Beyonder in prisoned within the Maker.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6118/makernotdead1wg7.th.jpg
Keep her body alive.

"a Living Prison"
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5114/makernotdead3gm3.th.jpg
"The ONLY prison capable of containing the Beyonder...it's essence"

"had we killed the Maker Form? The prisoner goes free"
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9929/makernotdead2bn5.th.jpg
"We would of ENABLED the thing we'd sought to prevent (the destruction of the Universe that is)

In this Thanos series, the Maker could have imploded the Universe on a whim if it had not gone mad.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3595/maker3ho5.th.jpg

Continues...


Thanos knew of the Maker's potential
Thanos says his only recollection of the Beyonder or Kosmos is Unlimited power...he repeats this.
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/666/maker2bu1.th.jpg
This is Thanos after having possessed a Cosmic Cube that made him a Universe...after having the Infinity Gauntlet that made him "God"...after having THOU...which absorbed Living Tribunal.

The Maker was rendered unconcious because it took on mortal form and it was spiraling into madness.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1448/maker8sj8.th.jpg
They wanted to kill the Maker in it's vulnerable state...Gladiator asks, "Can you kill a god?"

Here Gladiator calls the Maker "the most powerful being in the known Universe"...
and again refers to it as a god...but it' decided to take on mortal form, which made it vulnerable.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1605/maker9rl6.th.jpg


Now back to Molecule Man...


Molecule Man's power, has FAR greater potential than any Cosmic Cube or even the Beyonder.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8850/kubikexplainsph8.th.jpg

Kubik BEGS the Molecule Man not to kill the Beyonder, which would bring forth the END of Reality.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7615/kubikexplains2jz4.th.jpg

Finally Molecule Man is calmed down and Owen is able to take control again, he reverts back to passive, limited Owen Reece
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/7868/mm1yo1.th.jpg
"Ripping galaxies apart, bending the Laws of nature at Whim...That's easy stuff"


Hope that cleared that up

Originally posted by the Darkone
damn man, that was .

Well i'll try better to get rid of my muscle disorder so I can type better for you all since you think it's so funny.

I got school tomorrow, so...tootals.

I'm looking forward to, what you make up next.
Don't disappoint me!!

Originally posted by bigbran
I got school tomorrow, so...tootals.

I'm looking forward to, what you make up next.
Don't disappoint me!!

I'm with you on this one, gotta go too work at 4 in the morning.

Can't wait for some more bullsh**.

Well after seeing those scans, I agree that Post retcon beyonder is indeed Multiversal as well as post retcon molecule man.

But wasn't Post Ret Beyonder defeated and put in his place by LT? If so, though Beyonder is still powerful, he is no where near his previous power level.

Originally posted by Jesse7
But wasn't Post Ret Beyonder defeated and put in his place by LT?

I don't recall.

Regardless, Post ret Beyonder is nothing to LT.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Beyonder is still powerful, he is no where near his previous power level.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't recall.

Regardless, Post ret Beyonder is nothing to LT.



Absolutely.

The Post-retcon Beyonder's essense is potentially Universal in power.

His status though, is Multi-versal

Ahh I do remember seeing scans of LT putting post ret Beyonder in his place and banishing him to another sealed off reality or universe, I think I remember seeing them. Regardless though I do agree that Beyonder takes the cake over AM in this match up.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Ahh I do remember seeing scans of LT putting post ret Beyonder in his place and banishing him to another sealed off reality or universe, I think I remember seeing them.

That was Korvac, in that What If issue.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That was Korvac, in that What If issue.

I remember those scans too of Korvac and how he kept becoming stronger, yet with all his power he couldn't instantly destroy the combined might of the space armadas. But I remember LT facing Pre-Ret Beyonder at one time or another and literaly putting him in his place, but I could be wrong, I don't remember it very clearly.

Originally posted by Jesse7
I remember those scans too of Korvac and how he kept becoming stronger, yet with all his power he couldn't instantly destroy the combined might of the space armadas.

Yea it was a joke.

reasons why we shouldn't use What If's in debates even if it includes LT:

Korvac with ALL his power, can't read a Celestial mind,
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7317/korvaccantreadcelestial1bc.th.jpg

Korvac CANNOT resurrect just anyone, only someone he kills. Yet he's "omnipotent", LOL.
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6895/tressurect2ch.th.jpg

Korvac fears an Armada of beings that are coming to battle him from all over this universe, but he can kill and absorb some of the most powerful beings in the universe. This is crap, with all his power he should be able to wipe this army out of existence.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5641/korvacfearsarmada8wj.th.jpg

Korvac absorbs every being on this earth to battle this armada. He becomes so powerful he can sit on planet earth, like if it's a workout ball, but he's still going to rely on the Ultimate Nullifier to destroy this armada along with the universe.
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/9558/korvacabsorbsearth3do.th.jpg

Watcher breaks through Korvac's barrier like nothing, and this is after he absorbed every being on earth, even the visiting Celestials.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/565/korvacwatcherslipsin7sj.th.jpg

Korvac needs Ultimate Nullifier to destroy armada, nonsense, but it's a What If, so why complain.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6039/korvacneedsuntokillarmada1io.th.jpg


Originally posted by Jesse7
But I remember LT facing Pre-Ret Beyonder at one time or another and literaly putting him in his place, but I could be wrong, I don't remember it very clearly.

You know I'm a Cosmic freak, LT apearance are dear to me, but I really don't think that ever happened.

But don't get me wrong, it's still LT > PostRB

beyonder.

Pre-Retcon wins with a twitch of his nose.

Ill go with PR Beyonder with little doubt. That guy was as powerful as everything in our universe combined, and scared the crud out of Eternity, I dont see even Final Battle AM having close to that level of power.