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It is a time of peace in the galaxy and chess has become the newest craze. Master strategists from many planets are competing in the Coruscant Chess Tournament.

Participants:

Revan
Thrawn
Sidious
Akbar
Keeramak
Cassus Fett
Oppo Rancisis
Darth Vader
Jan Dodonna
Zsinj
Grievous
Sev'rance Tann
Yoda
Demtrius Zaarin
Count Dooku
Traya


In a random draw, the following matches have been decided for Round 1

Match 1-

Revan vs. Demetrius Zaarin

Match 2-

Zsinj vs. Yoda

Match 3-

Count Dooku vs. Darth Vader

Match 4-

Traya vs. Akbar

Match 5-

Grievous vs. Jan Dodonna

Match 6-

Sidious vs. Oppo Rancisis

Match 7-

Thrawn vs. Keeramak

Match 8-

Cassus Fett vs. Sev'rance Tann


Please name the winner, so we can proceed to Round 2.

1. Revan.
2. Yoda.
3. Dooku.
4. Traya.
5. Grievous.
6. Sidious.
7. Thrawn.
8. Tann.

Bump

Bump (sry for double post)

dont bump every few minutes.
Zarrin did stalemate thrawn so i am leaning to him.
Zsinj scince yoda is no commander.
Vader easily.
Acbar no doubt.
leaning to GG.
they both suck but i put sidious.
Thrawn no doubt.
Fett i think.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
Zarrin did stalemate thrawn so i am leaning to him.

When did Zaarin do that?

His plans to install himself as dictator foiled, Zaarin retreated to the Outer Rim, where he stalemated Thrawn. Finally, his technophilia proved to be his undoing, as he could not resist stealing the modified cloak-capable corvette Vorknkx. Unbeknownst to Zaarin, Thrawn had allowed him to capture the corvette as part of his scheme, knowing that the hyperdrive became unstable when the cloaking device was activated. Following a defeat by Thrawn, Zaarin attempted to flee into hyperspace with the corvette, ignorant of the dangers. When the hyperdrive was engaged, it exploded, destroying the ship and killing Zaarin instantly.

wookiepedia (SP?)

That did happen, but on two occasions Thrawn beat Zaarin.

1.) In that same event, it does say "following a defeat by Thrawn", and that does happen. After awhile, Thrawn did outsmart Zaarin, thus proving he is the superior by destroying Zaarin ship after tricking him. So, Thrawn is obviously the superior. Zaarin had Thrawn stalemated for awhile, but ultimately lost. Just like a game of chess, hey.

2.) Thrawn did force Zaarin to retreat in another instance in TIE: Fighter.

In any case, here's the winner of this tournament: Thrawn. He wins.

Originally posted by Adas
1. Revan.
2. Yoda.
3. Dooku.
4. Traya.
5. Grievous.
6. Sidious.
7. Thrawn.
8. Tann.

Match 1: Revan after a long game.

Match 2: Zsinj.

Match 3: Count Dooku (just a guess).

Match 4: Ackbar with ease.

Match 5: Grievous.

Match 6: Oppo sucks. Sidious.

Match 7: The soon-to-be winner of the tournament, Grand Admiral Thrawn wins.

Match 8: Probably Sev'rance.

Thrawn wins the tournament.

No, Dooku wins the tournament. Out of all the contestants he strikes me as the only chess player - probably having top of the range, gold pieces. However GG could just use his robotically enhanced brain and come up with strategies that are 8-9 turns long...

Couldn't Thrawn predict the outcome of a battle 10 YEARS before it happens?

Revan could do something like that, dunno about Thrawn. Dooku loses, Grievous maybe wins, Revan maybe wins(I think final will be GG vs. Revan, though Sidious could plan 10000 years in advance to throw them both into a Black Hole)

Yeah, somehow Grievous and Revan are candidates for winners, but the best strategist in galactic history isn't, lol. Thrawn > Revan in tactics. Thrawn is more intelligent, and well rounded than anybody in this competition. He basically is an ethnologist. Or his studies seem fully devoted on it. He's able to outsmart opponents simply based on their species. For example, he deployed one plan that the opponent could not calculate due simply to their species.

Quinlan it would come down to Revan versus Thrawn.

Who would win... I cannot say.

They both possessed tremendous foresight. They were both genious tacticians.

Match 1: Revan vs. Demetrius Zaarin

Zaarin did stalemate Thrawn for a while. A long while. It wasn't an easy battle for either opponent. He was also skilled enough to have the Emperor abducted. We hear of Revan's brilliance often, but I'm not aware of any specifics. And given that Thrawn > Revan by a bit, I'm inclined to say that it could go either way, but I'm leaning towards Zaarin, actually.

Match 2: Zsinj vs. Yoda

Yoda is sheer pwnage - but Zsinj was a big pain in the ass for the New Republic - and retook a quarter of the galaxy by himself. Zsinj is Yoda's tactical superior by a mile, but I think that perhaps Yoda's incredible wisdom and foresight may help.

Match 3: Count Dooku vs. Darth Vader

Eh. Count Dooku is the arrogant chess-playing type, but then again, he was only a pawn in the end (lol). Then again, so was Vader. But, Vader has shown extreme skill in tactics. He was the supreme commander of the Imperial Starfleet. He takes this.

Match 4: Traya vs. Ackbar

As with the case with Yoda vs. Zsinj, Ackbar is Traya's tactical superior by about two miles, but Traya is an extremely superb manipulator and possesses amazing foresight. Perhaps this, as with Yoda and Palpatine, would be an advantage?

Match 5: Grievous vs. Jan Dodonna

Both are skilled tactitions, but I'm leaning more with the coolest tactition (outside Thrawn) in the SW universe, Grievous, due to his skills shown during the Clone Wars.

Match 6: Sidious vs. Oppo Rancisis

Rancisis was heralded (in Cloak of Deception) for his tactical skills, and Sidious left the military tactics to his underlings. However, he is the greatest manipulator in Star Wars, and also possesses great foresight. Perhaps this would help him, as with Yoda and Traya.

Match 7: Thrawn vs. Keeramak

I echo Advent. Thrawn WTFpwns this tournament.

Match 8: Cassus Fett vs. Sev'rance Tann

Tann. Dooku let her be in charge for a reason.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Quinlan it would come down to Revan versus Thrawn.

Who would win... I cannot say.

They both possessed tremendous foresight. They were both genious tacticians.

Hate to tell you, son, but you are putting too much stock in Revan. Revan was a tactical genius, true. But, then again, so was Thrawn, Grievous, Ackbar, Rancisis, Zsinj, and Zaarin.

Why is Revan necessarily greater than all those but Thrawn? I'd say that Ackbar, Zaarin, and Zsinj are on par with Revan, easily, and that he'd have a hard time against Grievous.

But Thrawn owns them all.

Match 1: Revan

Match 2: Yoda

Match 3: Count Dooku

Match 4: Ackbar

Match 5: Grievous.

Match 6: Sidious.

Match 7: Thrawn

Match 8: Sev'rance.

Originally posted by Escape81
Match 3: Count Dooku vs. Darth Vader

Eh. Count Dooku is the arrogant chess-playing type, but then again, he was only a pawn in the end (lol). Then again, so was Vader. But, Vader has shown extreme skill in tactics. He was the supreme commander of the Imperial Starfleet. He takes this.

I disagree. They were both pawns. However Vader is more of the brute force, guns blazing type of guy. He doesnt have the patience or discipline required to successfully play an intricate game of chess against the Count. Dooku however is an extremely smart man in his own right. He convinced many thousands of worlds to leave the Republic and single handedly created the nearly unstoppable force that was the CIS. He is also a politician (doesnt hold much weight but I decided to add it anyway lol). Last but not least he is a very skilled Dun Moch practicioner. We know the effect his words have on Vaders concentration. So basically every time Vader makes a move he will be met with "Surely you can do better". Vaders concentration will be wrecked by the 3rd turn max.

Well we're talking about OT Vader I think Rampant. He was shown in that as very Patient, smart, etc etc. Dooku is not a Genius at Military, as said, he's a Politition. He was only the Face of the CIS, and that's all that Sidious needed, Vader was much more important

Yes, but Dooku is arguably still a smarter person than Vader. And there is no proof that Dooku's Dun Moch ability will not have effect on OT Vader. Also, neither of them are really "military tacticians". I mean, they are not terrible at it but they both have people making the important decisions for them. I f I recall, Vader made the decision to send his fleet into an asteroind field just to catch the Falcon, thus suffering heavy damage. This could be seen as Vader sacrificing his Queen just to capture a pawn. Dooku will win this match fairly easily imo.

That's only because you're a fanboy. In the OT Vader was smarter than Dooku, who didn't see through Sidious(I mean come on, how can you be that stupid, like a Sith Lord will share power with someone else, one that's Older than him, and doesn't have any potential) Dooku isn't that smart, and it wouldn't be sacrificing his Queen for a Pawn, it'd be Queen for a King, you do realise he thought Luke was on the Falcon. Anakin of the PT was Pathetic, and a whiny *****, he would lose this easily, not OT Vader

Well I disagree. Name something that would put OT Vader on the level of Dooku in terms of knowledge, patience and discipline. OT Vader is smart, a heck of alot smarter than PT Anakin, but he is more of a brute force, do what I say or ill kick you ass apprentice. Dooku simply has more experience and knowledge for this match. The Count will win.

Watch the OT, and then look at Dooku's stuff, and without Fanboyism, tell me that he ISN'T smarter than Dooku

Lmao. Im not going and watching the OT again. Dooku is smarter for the reasons I stated before. He is also older and would have more experience (assuming all these contestants play chess). Dooku has probably had top of the range private lessons, just to give him that edge over the opponent. There would be no expense spared to make him the best. Vader however has been too busy having his arms removed, his legs removed, attempting to destroy an ever evasive alliance and trying to track down his son.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
That's only because you're a fanboy.

Lol. Owned.

All right fine. Since Thrawn is an absolute absolute absolute genius at this stuff, he gets disqualified. So Thrawn is OUT!!!

Keeramak advances by default.

HAHAHA Thrawn loses.

Originally posted by zephiel7
HAHAHA Thrawn loses.

Uh... Thrawn > everybody in tactical skills. Only Ackbar, Zsinj, Zaarin, and possibly Revan are near him in ability.

Thrawn gets eliminated by George Lucas for being too smart. Now please continue the tournament.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Now please continue the tournament.

Thrawn wins.

Rampant Ox, Count Dooku was a politician and a politician only. He, like Emperor Palpatine, left the tactical battles and conquests to the people who could handle it.

Vader was the supreme Executor of the Galactic Empire. He showed extreme tactical ability even during the PT, but lost his temper too easily. In the OT, he calmed down.

Vader > Dooku in tactics. Get over it.

In tactics yes, Vader might have the edge over the Count. Dooku was not stupid, and he didnt specialise in tactics but this doesnt mean he wouldnt come up with some good strategies of his own. Also, Dooku has the chess playing personality. I could imagine him sitting on a balcony, playing chess with high ranking politicians while sipping a Martinni. However I can not imagine Vader playing. He might have the odd game in his meditation chamber with Admiral Piett but thats about all.

But all this doesnt mean Vader is smarter in general and it certainly doesnt mean he will win the match. Dooku is far more patient, calm and (imo) disciplined. These are three crucial factors in a game of chess.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
In tactics yes, Vader might have the edge over the Count. Dooku was not stupid, and he didnt specialise in tactics but this doesnt mean he wouldnt come up with some good strategies of his own. Also, Dooku has the chess playing personality. I could imagine him sitting on a balcony, playing chess with high ranking politicians while sipping a Martinni. However I can not imagine Vader playing. He might have the odd game in his meditation chamber with Admiral Piett but thats about all.

But all this doesnt mean Vader is smarter in general and it certainly doesnt mean he will win the match. Dooku is far more patient, calm and (imo) disciplined. These are three crucial factors in a game of chess.

Actually he's right, Dooku would probably play it while his Midget Butler gives him Martinni's while Dooku reclined on a Beach. Vader is the more Diciplined/Patient sith, but might not know Chess, I was thinking Tactics instead XD

Originally posted by Rampant ox
In tactics yes, Vader might have the edge over the Count.

This is where you're ridiculous fanboyism comes in, whether it be a game of chess, a battle, or a god damn 72 Mile Marathon - Dooku just cannot come short by your standards. Really. Not to one thing. It's always "Dooku might have a chance actually", or "x might be better than Dooku". It's pretty ridiculous.

In any case, what you're saying is that an experienced tactician, who has been working for the Empire for twenty years, oversaw numerous battles, won numerous battles, and such just might come up short to "The Great" Dooku, a man who is a politician with no real history of being an excellent strategist. That is ridiculous. If you want to claim that Dooku is even in the same league as Vader? That's laughable.

Why you ask? Let us take just a short overview of Vader's credentials:

- The defeat of Zaarin's assassination squad that were trying to capture the Emporer. Granted Zaarin escaped, however, he did destroy his commanding fighting support.
- The Battle of Tatooine against the Tantive Five.
- The Battle of Hoth, where he personally took over for Veers after the shield generators were down, and slaughtered the remaining rebels.
- As Anakin, he did help very much in The Battle of Praesitlyn taking out the opposition's flagship bridge on his own. He also acted as a commander.
- Taking out Xizor because of a failed attempt at a bluff, thus destroying Xizor's skyhook.
- The destruction of Admiral Harkov's fleet, which was impressive.
- He set up a sting operation on Zekka Thyne, who Vader did consider a "formidable rival". He had Thrawn dress up as Jodo Kast. So, we do know that his "choice" of tactics is similiar to Thrawn's in that it's an alternative method.

Now that's just some of his victories, there's a numerous amount more as noted in TIE: Fighter. Dooku's history with commanding a fleet? Um, none? Nothing nearly as impressive. Vader is simply a good tactician, has twenty plus years of service to the Empire (in terms of commanding, Executor, etc.), and is definitely above Dooku.



You're assuming that Dooku is smarter than Darth Vader. Well, I do say, old chap - proof? Just because he seems like one of those "oh, rubbish, dear, I do say old chap - have we a spot of tea?" guys doesn't mean he is more intelligent than Vader. Even so - even if he is slightly more intelligent (because he's not leagues above him in intelligence if he were to be smarter) Vader is far more experienced and far more knowledgeable in tactics, strategy, and the like than Dooku. We know Vader is very intelligent as well through his works with in technology, and even his advice to the Empire. Vader wanted to improve TIE fighter, and Stormtrooper armor, as he commissioned it. He also was said to have ties to the Dark trooper project. Darth Vader is the Lord of Technology. It's part of his character.

Now, what strategies can someone with no strategic and tactical background come up with to fool someone who has twenty years experience, is a highly decorated Executor, and practically second in command of the Galactic Empire?

Really - there is no comparison.



This right here, is your entire argument, I'd say. Dooku looks like a smart guy, who plays chess all the time. Basically one of those snobby Englishman, or whatever. Like the Monopoly Guy. Vader looks like he was put together using various collectibles of scrap metal, and then painted black, and had a PC installed in his chest. So, therefore Dooku just might be able to pull off a win based on that? Ridiculous, as I've said already.

If I were in the Star Wars universe, during the time of TPM - I would never suspect Palpatine of being a Sith Lord. He doesn't even look like one. But regarding this specific conversation, if I looked at Vader, and just watched the first hour of A New Hope, I'd say he's just a brute enforcer who lacks intelligence, and thus leaves it up to the others to do the real job.

As we find out, this is completely, 100% incorrect. He's very intelligent with technology, and has pulled through numerous battles with the win. His demeanor comes off that way because he's kind of like "Do what I tell you, don't mess up a thing, and hold up your end, I'll hold up mine". We notice he does not execute officers who aren't directly responsible.



Um, Vader will win. Vader has demonstrated patience when he wants to, and as for disciplined? In what way exactly? Been a utterly devoted servant to the Emporer's every whim for twenty years. As I said above, kills those who fail him, but not those who aren't directly responsible.

And honestly, do you think General Veers would admire him so much if he wasn't good? The only ones that hold a grudge against him have reasons (Mara, Thrawn, etc.). His troops do hold a strong amount of respect for him as he does personally lead campaigns.

Vader is the superior tactician. And my money is definitely on Vader for the win.

I do feel that I should address my above decision because I put Dooku as a guess (then again, I put a lot of guesses) and so you don't go saying "You said Dooku would win, yada": I wasn't really sure if Count Dooku had any background when I actually made my decisions above, so I decided to check up on it. Apparently, he doesn't. I always thought Dooku was like the Seperatists' strategist or something (which, in my book, means he'd be damn good) - as I didn't care enough about his character to actually look, but now I do, because I love to disprove your "rampant ramblings".

That plus I did a lot of research on Vader's tactical background, lol.

So are you saying that Vader, the man who would crush the pieces in his hands and cry oil when he loses would beat the Count, who plays chess against the Chancellor every second Sunday over tea and scones. BULLSHIT!!!

Leading fleets and moving chess pieces are two different things. If I said before that Dooku is a better tactician I take that back now. I have read little EU and didnt know of Vaders achievements. But in most of the cases you stated I am assuming that Vader had a vast majority in terms of troops, training the troops have had and the element of suprise. None of these are available in chess. You have to rely on yourself to do all the work, the chess pieces are not going to miraculously come to life and perform wonderous feets.

This is where Dooku has the advantage and Vader the disadvantage. Vader fights with legions of stormtroopers behind him, usually the 501st. If he did make a mistake, which im not saying he does, but if he did he would have a member of his army to fix it. Or he might not even make the decision in the first place, merely tell someone else to. If he made a mistake in chess, to put it simply, he is screwed. Dooku however is a one man show. He single handedly convinced the systems to leave the Republic etc etc. He did not have an army to back him up (until the CIS was formed).

Also this is one time where age may help the Count. We are assuming that all the contestants actually play chess. So it would be logical to assume that Dooku has played the game longer because he is older (and Yoda again would be more skilled bacause he is far older). With age comes experience. Dooku will know the game better and know better strategies. Vader might be good, but he wouldnt have had the same experience of the game as Dooku had. Thus giving Dooku a considerable advantage. I stick with what I said before and say Dooku wins.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
So are you saying that Vader, the man who would crush the pieces in his hands and cry oil when he loses would beat the Count, who plays chess against the Chancellor every second Sunday over tea and scones. BULLSHIT!!!

No, what I am saying is that you're a fanboy, capisce? Obviously the other twenty? Twenty one? (I've lost count, so excuse me) times I've handed you your ass in a debate haven't taught you much. I have failed you, Rampant, I have failed you.

I could be the greatest teacher in the world, but some students just cannot be taught.



Oh, really? I wasn't aware giving commands is very different from actually doing them yourself. His subordinates listen to his word, and relay the message to the battlefield. In a battle, the commander gives the word to do x and y. The troops obey commands. Darth Vader, if anything, only delegates because delegating authority generates a smooth military machine. Vader picking up chess pieces is a far step behind relying on other people to do the job. In chess, Vader can do as he pleases, and make sure there are no failures - for example, "Position the fleet so that nothing gets out of the system. Recall that line? Recall who was given the command? Admiral Piett was given that command, and he failed.

If Vader has full command, and doesn't need to relay messages it's going to be a lot easier, and make his "battle" a lot smoother.



Good, because Dooku isn't even in the same apartment complex as Vader in terms of tactical ability, and strategically planning (which is what chess is about). Vader is in the Penthouse suite of the Waldorf Astoria, while Dooku is living in a rundown building, room 1F. And there's no running water either.

And that's not sarcasm or an attempt at being funny, it's how it is.



Incorrect. How, pray tell, was the victory at the Battle of Praesitlyn due to "more troops, training, and surprise" when they were losing prior? And if you recall, this was Anakin Skywalker, he took the opposition's bridge out by himself. Tactical ability? Oh, I do say so. And chess is a planned out game. If you know what you're going to do, it can be a surprise.



Obviously they are not going to perform "feets", as that's an ugly misspelling of "feats". The thing that's entirely flown over your most likely bald head is that Vader was in command, he gave orders. That's the equivalent to chess where the player moves the pieces around. He relays the commands, and whatever officer follows them. That is, when Vader isn't leading into battle. In other words, commanding troops personally in which he doesn't even have to waste air. The Battle of Hoth was won by Vader's ground assistance, as he did take over after Veers destroyed the shield generators.

That's what you do as a commander - you basically tell what to do, and they do it. That's no different from chess as you move where you want to. Vader probably excels at small unit tactics rather than full scale battle, as we know - the corresponding pieces to your color are considered "small unit", in that it's not a huge burden to command.



Who are under his command. He gives the orders. We know Darth Vader personally likes to lead as many campaigns as possible. I don't see what you're getting at. You are truly not making sense. Look at it this way, Vader is commanding the black "ships", Dooku controlling the white "ships". They have equal artillery, and such - however, the black commander, Vader, is an experienced tactician, and has won many battles before. Now, tell me how would Dooku beat that when he has no tactical background?



Like what exactly? Care to give an example? A mistake in what way? Strategically? No. In terms of equipment? Well, obviously, but that's only if the fleet gets shot to shit. Really though, I'd like to know what you even mean.



Firstly, I'm going to address your original point: that essentially makes no sense. How can he "not make the decision", but tell someone else to? If he tells someone else to do it, he made the decision. Though, I will say were you to pass the buck to your second in command, you would be superseded. Lord Vader is not under those conditions - he is the Supreme Commander of the Imperial Forces, not a common flag officer. Fleet deployment is something that a common line captain does. It's standard procedure, entrapment.

I'd like to call into question of what you think chess is. Giving a command is practically the same as moving a piece. Except in this game, Vader only has himself, which is more than suitable. Why? Because he doesn't have to worry about some incompetent screwing up his plans. Do you think an actual battle has no correlation to a game of chess? If you do, then - as I've said - you are horribly misinformed.



And you somehow believe that tactics, and strategy don't tie into chess? Uh, the board is the battlefield. The pawns are the troopers. The knights are star ships, and so on. Do you honestly believe Vader cannot calculate that? Your premise is that chess has nothing to do with tactics. That is very wrong. Dooku is more susceptible to make a mistake than Vader, because Vader not only has chess experience, but actual battle and military experience as well. We know that in one case, Vader won a battle even with fighting through impossible odds (Vengeance Campaign, IIRC), and he prefers "out of the ordinary" or "alternative tactics". You cannot expect Dooku to even know what the hell Vader is planning, whereas with Vader - it's more than likely he'd catch an eye on what Dooku's up to. Having seen an innumerable amount of battles as not only Darth Vader, but Anakin Skywalker as well. To think he wouldn't at least grasp what his opponent was doing is ridiculous, honestly.



And that correlates to chess how? Because he can somehow talk someone into something he is automatically a chess god? This is purely ridiculous. You have no idea of what you're arguing. Tactics, and actual battle have far more to do with chess than being a political figure. Which, not surprisingly, has nothing to do with chess. A tactician can understand the game of chess better than a politician. This is obvious.

What you are saying, correct me if I'm wrong here, is that Dooku is going to be good at chess because he "singlehandedly" talked some people into leaving? This logic does not follow. A political figures job really has nothing to do with chess, a tacticians job, however, does. I say that because chess is what strategists and tacticians do. They command a unit. The pieces are their unit. They give the orders by moving them, and obviously the inanimate objects follow. The only major differences are:

1.) You have equal "artillery" in terms of each color piece corresponding to it's counterpart's ability to move.
2.) You have an equal amount of troops.

Now, because of that we must rely on the commanders, which would be Dooku and Vader respectively, to deploy their pieces (troops) onto the board (battlefield). We can successfully gauge who will win based on tactical experience, because we do not know how good Dooku would've gotten playing chess. You cannot prove that Dooku would be a better general chess player, assuming neither had any military/tactical background, just because he's older.

For example, take Sergey Karjakin, he was only twelve years old when he was deemed a grandmaster. I'd be willing to bet he can beat older folks who had been playing chess for decades. I know he could. So, obviously age does not equal skill. In universe example: Dooku vs. Anakin.

Back to the actual point, since we would would not know who's a better general chess player without tactical background (and don't think I can't make a case for Vader), we should turn to their tactical background. In which case Dooku is plainly outclassed.

This is faulty logic. If you do operate under the assumption that all competitors have played chess, it would still be an added plus for Vader. We know he's able to throw together brilliant strategies, and if he's experienced with chess that's even more of a plus. Now "age comes experience" - this may be true, however, we know that young adults (no more than 13, 14) are able to best people who have had decades of experience playing chess. So, your point virtually collapses. As well, just because he's played longer does not mean he'd have better strategies.

Realistically, you're assuming a chess player - who's played longer, can beat another chess player, who may have had less time to play, but is a brilliant strategist. This is equivalent to saying that Dooku should be better than Anakin because he's had about 40-50 plus years to train with a lightsaber, and become experienced. As we find out in ROTS:

http://img326.imageshack.us/img326/655/dooku1jn9.jpg

This is not the case, hence your "grand" argument fails. You see how that works? It's called "logic", and it's a key part to any argument - this is why your arguments fail you. The example above perfectly corresponds. Dooku, by your faulty logic, should be better - he is not, however because of one key essential skill: saber skill. In chess, the key essential skills are: strategy and tactics. Surprise, Surprise. Something our Lord Vader has been practicing for more than twenty years.

For a better example, please see my above point (see: Sergey Karjakin).




Oh yeah, it did save him from getting his head chopped off by Ana-- oh wait, it didn't. Experience doesn't grant you a victory, nor can it give judgement on a decision that has more factors than just say, random padawan versus random fifty year old master. We know that Vader is a highly gifted tactician, whereas Dooku plainly is not. We know Vader's won numerous victories, and such. That is a considerable advantage. Your fanboyism is not.

And again, just because Dooku's had experience does not mean he'll be any better than Vader. Simple experience does not correlate to skill nor ability. Certainly not in chess. You'd have to prove the impossible, which is Dooku's faced opponents on Vader's level of ability, and won or came close to. This you cannot do, thus your point holds no water.



Yes, but you are a fanboy, and no one cares what you say. So, it doesn't really matter, now does it? And you've yet to provide any real proof that Dooku is capable of beating him. Honestly, you've just been sprouting out a false premise, and trying to think I'd let it slide, and trying to pass it off as if you actually made an argument. Reading your entire thing, we can gauge that you don't have anything to base your decision on aside from "he looks like a chess player, and he's going to be more experienced", which both are very easily defeated.

Vader beats Dooku. No Dooku fanboys can stop that from happening. Unfortunately you've neglected to answer my post at all - where I call to question your lack of evidence or justification for anything. If you plan on responding, please do not keep flinging shit around like a monkey.

In a random draw, the following matches have been decided for Round 1

Match 1-

Revan vs. Demetrius Zaarin (2-1 says it's Revan)

Match 2-

Winner: Zsinj

Match 3-

Count Dooku vs. Darth Vader (in progress, though Vader is nearing checkmate)

Match 4-

Winner: Ackbar

Match 5-

Winner: Grievous

Match 6-

Winner: Sidious

Match 7-

NEW MATCH: I eliminated Thrawn and Keermak since one's really good and another is not that great.

So Match 7 is between Yoda vs. Traya

Match 8-

Winner: Sev'rance Tann


Round 2 Participants (so far):

Sev'rance Tann
Zsinj
Sidious
Grievous
Ackbar

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Count Dooku vs. Darth Vader (in progress, though Vader is nearing checkmate)

It's no competition. Vader beats Dooku.

Advent covered it quite nicely. Count Dooku left the tactical parts of conquest to the likes of Sev'rance Tann and General Grievous. He is, obviously, an intelligent man, but he's not an expert tactition.

For example: Palpatine is among the most intelligent individuals that we've seen in Star Wars. He is a peerless manipulator, and used the galaxy as his pawns. He was capable of creating complex and brilliant schemes. He even manipulated the likes of Grand Admiral Thrawn. But that isn't to say that Sidious is capable of outwitting Thrawn in battle.

Thrawn > Palpatine in military tactics by miles and miles.

Vader was the supreme commander of the Imperial Starfleet and military Executor - second only to Palpatine himself. He proved to be an expert tactition even as Anakin, and as Vader, he developed the patience and serenity that he had been lacking as a hot-headed youth.

Dooku can't touch Vader here.

~ SW VS. Forum Chess Tournament ~

Round 1 Results:

Match 1-

Revan vs. Demetrius Zaarin (2-1 says it's Revan)

Match 2-

Winner: Zsinj

Match 3-

Winner: Darth Vader

Match 4-

Winner: Ackbar

Match 5-

Winner: Grievous

Match 6-

Winner: Sidious

Match 7-

Yoda vs. Traya

Match 8-

Winner: Sev'rance Tann


Round 2 Participants (so far):


Zsinj
Darth Vader
Ackbar
Grievous
Sidious
Sev'rance


Still in progress: Yoda vs. Traya & Revan vs. Zaarin

Other than Thrawn, and possibly Zsinj, Zaarin = the most brilliant Imperial tactition. I'd say that Revan puts up a good fight, but loses this match.

Round 2 Competitors:

Revan
Zsinj
Darth Vader
Ackbar
Grievous
Sidious
Yoda
Sev'rance


Round 2 Bracket:


Revan vs. Darth Vader


Zsinj vs. Ackbar


Grievous vs. Sev'rance


Yoda vs. Sidious

Um... I'm still not seeing how Revan > Zaarin... but alrighty...



Probably Revan. Vader was a highly skilled tactition - but there were those in the Empire who were superior to him in that department. Revan is on par with the likes of Zaarin - and possibly Thrawn himself - so I'd say that he would beat Vader after a while.



Ooh... toughie. I'll have to come back on this.



I'd say Grievous.



Yoda, definately. He was the Jedi Order's most prolific general and tactition. Sidious is a skillful manipulator, but doesn't seem to possess a lot of tactical ability. He goes down.

Revan vs. Darth Vader (1-0 Revan)

Zsinj vs. Ackbar

Grievous vs. Sev'rance (1-0 Grievous)
WINNER OF THIS MATCH WILL FACE ZAARIN AND THEN MOVE TO ROUND 3

Yoda vs. Sidious (1-0 Yoda)

I will answer the only two I know.

Revan beats Vader and Sidious PWNS Yoda.

Well this is interesting... but I say I pawn them all myself.

Twelve years of chess club > Tactical skill.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Zephiel, you Indian?

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Zephiel, you Indian?

You'll never know (yes...)

Don't lie to me brother.... (wink wink)

well i noticed that Rampant is no longer spewing Dooku praises being that he was shut down ...AGAIN, but just emphasize something about one of his arguments...

Advent, by her profile admission (if true), is 20 years old, I myself am 26 years old. I have had 6 more years to argue and learn HOW to argue/debate with people, but admit that what i've seen from her, she would beat me in a debate. Not necessarily due to knowledge, but she has the will and desire to look things up and make educated statements, whereas I lack the determination to do so. So age has NOTHING to do with skill. I was in the military and went to college and still could not beat her in a debate. I only bring that up because she said before this type of shit helps her with college papers...so just showing that i also attended to show an equal playing field, hehe, or a "neutral setting".

Six years not enough of a span? My grandfather is 77 years old and she would tear his ass up in a debate. Man you gotta stop riding Chris Lee's jock and use some common sense.
Just so i know...do you have a girlfriend? If so, do you make her get a count dooku Halloween outfit when you all have sex? Make her tell you to stick your lightsaber in her darkside? In the middle of it, have her laugh at you and tell you, "surely you can do better!"

Im sorry that was mean, and uncalled for....but then again...so is your fanboyism.....hmmm.....


j/k....kind of.....

Dude, what was that? I all I got from you was

- Advent loving

- Rampant Ox hatin

- Rampant having sex with his Dooku girlfriend LOL!

mmmm Wrinkily sex....

*Does the homer salivate thing*

uhhh.......

LOL, sorry, i wasnt trying to come off as loving one and hating the other. Just anytime Dooku is brought up, his gaydar goes off and he feels the need to try to prove (which he rarely does) that dooku is the best at every situation. Sometimes Dooku's age is a benefit, sometimes, a curse, just trying to show that age doesn't mean shit, unless of course dealing with a baby or infant. It's just irritating and pointless.

sorry...

No no its okay, thanks to you I just made a mess all over my keyboard.

lmao!!!! dude the smiley did it to me...now i'm grinning ear to ear...good shit...

also did i mention...im scared of Advent? but in a sexy way...no im kidding...

You better be, otherwise she'll harass you with her keyboard.

Word up, she'll find info on you on google sayign your like a striiper and sh*t.

nah i was kidding, man..shit i'm married with two kids. But no, like i was saying, I was just trying to add a point there...not that she needs any help.

Originally posted by Blax X
mmmm Wrinkily sex....

*Does the homer salivate thing*

LOL.

Disgusting.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Man you gotta stop riding Chris Lee's jock and use some common sense.
Just so i know...do you have a girlfriend? If so, do you make her get a count dooku Halloween outfit when you all have sex? Make her tell you to stick your lightsaber in her darkside? In the middle of it, have her laugh at you and tell you, "surely you can do better!"

Im sorry that was mean, and uncalled for....but then again...so is your fanboyism.....hmmm.....


Im glad you got that out of your system. But now that you've finished insulting me, my girlfriend and Christopher Lee could you tell me what point you were trying to make? Because I dont find it funny in the slightest. Also could you tell me why im being a fanboy, because I dont think I have said anything totally biased for quite sometime - I certainly havent been biased enough to anger you as much as it has.

man, you didnt anger me at all. I was kidding with you...i hope your girlfriend (and i hope im not being too presumptuous), doesnt dress like Dooku...

Cause everytime someone utters the name dooku, here you come with reasons why he would be the best...no matter what the situation.
You can "imagine" him playing chess with politicians every day all you want, doesn't mean Vader or anyone else doesnt either. Its all your perception of your precious Dooku. And it irks people. You have no concrete evidence EVER when you post these things. Advent called you out on a lot of shit and i noticed you didnt mention anything about being a hypocrite when it comes to his age...

See ill admit it, at times, i could be a little bit of a Vader fanboy, he's the one that made me interested in SW in the first place. HOWEVER, i do not and will not make up sorry excuses for him just so he can be victorious on a free, fan message board, in hypothetical situations that will never come to be. And you are biased, which i can understand, but when you dont listen to reason and argue with concrete facts on how/why dooku would lose, its aggravating. Doesnt really piss me off at all...

If youre feelings are that hurt then i obviously touched a nerve, and must have said something that hit a little close to home...but chill out man. You can say whatever you want about me or my family, and i wouldnt care because you dont know us, just like i dont know you or your chick. Dont take it that personal man. But i contend that you do ride C.Lee's jock...and i dont know why...

You seem to have come up with a whole argument against me and Christopher Lee, and for that I commend you. However I dont really see that it is that big of a deal, I favour Dooku and when I be a fanboy my arguments tend to be crushed. Simple as that. If it aggrovates you that much then block me.

I havent argued like a fanboy towards Dooku for quite some time, and no the Vader vs Tyrannus thread doesnt count. I strongly beleive that Dooku would win. I used to be a fanboy all the time, I rememeber the commotion I caused when I said Dooku would be a problem for DE Luke (lol, good times). But these days I just stick to supporting the Count in the other 3 SW Forums. Dont think you can stop me favoring the Count because I wont. So lets just call a truce and I will ignore what you said in the last sentence of your post.

Truce? We arent beefin like that...I didnt say i could or even wanted you to stop favoring "the count". Just how you come with off the wall reasons he's the best at EVERYTHING...and yes it's aggravating, but in a comical way...not enough to want to block you...then where would i get my laughs from? j/k.
Hey its all good, you love Chris Lee...but theres a difference in loving him, and LOVING him, you know what i'm saying...nah im kidding...again...just chill and do your thing man...its all gravy like turkey fat.

Lol, ok then. The matter is officially settled.




Wtf

lol...just a simile me and one of my boys from the army say...lol

Oh i do have a Dooku question for you tho, and i mean it in a serious way, not poking fun...well first off, do you remember any differences between the theatrical release and the DVD release of Ep3? When Dooku enters the room to fight Ani/OB1, when Dooku first draws his saber, in the theater does he say something like, "Just because there are two of you , do not assume you have the advantage." ? I know its not in the DVD, cause im watching it now, hehe, but in the ROTS video game, they have it in there, and even in the movie it looks like they cut it out. The other reason i ask, when i heard it on the game , it was like ive heard it before and i could swear it was in the theater version.

just curious cause its driving me insane cause m not sure...blowup

i say vader loses and gets pissed off so kills everyone in the middle of ther match except sidious who says" i was about use the daeth star to kill his king so go sit in the corner!"

^^Im not sure. I also recognised it from the game but couldnt put my finger on where I had heard it. I think it was in the movie but im hardly 100% sure. But I cant think where else we might have heard it.

ok thanks..i knew i wasnt cray, at least someone else remembers hearing it elsewhere...