Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

hey, i don't know if this has been posted or not (if it has already then feel free to delete it..)
but i found this information on rottentomatoes.com
its basically a review made by Ted Elliot (one of the writers of POTC) in keeptothecode.com (the official forum for POTC?)

Ive heard about the writers visiting the official sites before...apparently it intruges them lol


anyway, he made some very interesting comments about he compass;



*************



I found this on the message boards at keeptothecode.com.....posted at 2am this morning by Ted Elliot:


"The reason we included the "Why is the rum always gone?" line was not just as a callback to the first movie; it was intended to remind audiences of the specific circumstances that it referenced, and so act as a cue to what Jack had on his mind: the woman who he was first attracted to and then infuriated with (or: the woman who Jack never would have been infuriated with if he had not been attracted to).

So, the deal with compass: Jack simultaneously wanted Elizabeth and wanted to be as far from Elizabeth as possible. Whichever of those he wanted most would cause him to immediately want the other more ... so the compass would not settle, swinging between "Port Royal" and "antipode of Port Royal" (which is sort-of-but-not-quite Singapore, btw).

(There was much debate about whether, in the first scene aboard the Pearl, to show the compass pointing in a specific direction and have Jack set course in the opposite direction, or to show it as it is in the movie. I think the first would have made it more clear to the audience that something weird was going on with Jack ("he's not going where the compass points? What's up with that?", but the second is actually more demonstrative of his emotional state)(at least, that was the theory).

And, as long as I'm breaking silence on the compass, let me just say: there's no transference. If it points to a waffle, it's not pointing to the waffle because you're hungry or because you really want to be Belgian or something; it points to the waffle 'cause what you want most is that waffle.

Of course, if you've been hungry for a while, anticipating the most delicious meal you could ever imagine, and for some reason you couldn't partake of that meal, and then you found yourself in the presence of a very interesting waffle ... well, that doesn't mean that you suddenly think the aforementioned meal would not be delicious. It just means that, right then, that waffle seems pretty tempting.

Does that make you a terrible person?"


************



Here is another post from Ted Elliot about the real purpose of the compass...



**************


"don't want to interrupt your discussions (because, you know, we intended there to be a lot about the movie to discuss), but I'm curious about something:

I've noticed a number of articles and posts (here and elsewhere) that refer to the compass as pointing to your heart's desire. Of course, in the movie, it points to what you want most, which is a different thing (else it never would have pointed to the chest for Elizabeth).

Anyway, I'm just wondering where the "heart's desire" thing came from. Was that how it was described in Disney publicity materials? Or is it that how "what you want most" is being interpreted? Or is that how it "read" to people in the movie? Or a combination of those things?

(I'm trying to figure out if we somehow failed to define it clearly)."

Thanks,

Ted



**************



The link for rottentomateos is;


http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/showthread.php?t=497875


and you can find the actual thread this originated from on keeptothecode.com

here;

http://forums.keeptothecode.com//vi...ghlight=#165871






does anyone think this is authentic? maybe im really gullible...but it sounded pretty good to me...you want something when it is infront of you....

THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR WEEKS!! ..well kinda

the comapss was pointing there wo go me go me!

the comapss was pointing to port royal..so iys not when Liz is right infront of him..he wanted it even when she wasnt there..

In my opinon it pointed to the chest for Jack because she in fact wants to HELP HIM instead of Will..she knows jack wants it.

and its not just pointing at jack because she wants to be a pirate..she WANTS jack.

but probaly just wants him for sex right now?

WELL DUH. we all have been saying that. we only needed mr elliot to confirm it.

very well done LovelyOne! lol
your wisdom strikes once again! hehe
That obviously means that somewhere along the lines Jack has bgun to get deeper feelings for elizabeth...

for some reason this gives me alot more 'shipper hope


Also, someone posted this;



"The compass points to material objects only."


after looking at one of thoes links, I found ^^ that comment by Ted. Interesting?




^^^That was posted by someone named Neonriot ... i think she was referring to the thread Ted Elliot had posted on

so fine. we're good ladies!!!!!

So maybe its not love for jack that she has?

It's just lust?

she was looking forward to being with will..but then jack comes into her life and she is tempted..that might be what it means..

aha so the compass pointed RIGHt at her too when she was on the pearl!..he WANTED her

hmm...wait! while jack was on the boat, escaping from the kraken, he looked at his compass. If its material things that point then it couldnt have been pointing to the pearl..bc at the end he said 'ABANDON SHIP' SHES ONLY A SHIP, MATE" the compass obviously pointed to liz. if not how wouldve been able to find her and come to the rescue..?? its ur heart most desires!! it could be anything or anyone! What liz has in her heart is love not only lust.

i deffinately thought it was lust....
but i have a feeling she may have different intentions within the third film...

afterall...as you could tell from that first kiss...it wasn'r enough.
she's tasted it now, there is no going back....

i think at first it was just lust..but came to relize that ther is more than meets the eye..there is jack..a good man. a side of him she saw whom she fell in love with and got scared.

exactly..the kiss was a fat mistake on her behalf..

I think its going to change..from lust to something else..the lust cant be there foerver..she's either going to accept it or not..

that also means that she still hasn't quite..fogotten about will..she's just massivly tempted with Jack..

thing is if my heart theory is true..it CROSSED over to love just after he came back for her..

Where is SparrowSavvy..i want to rub it in her face joking

"The reason we included the "Why is the rum always gone?" line was not just as a callback to the first movie; it was intended to remind audiences of the specific circumstances that it referenced, and so act as a cue to what Jack had on his mind: the woman who he was first attracted to and then infuriated with (or: the woman who Jack never would have been infuriated with if he had not been attracted to).


^^^ that is an interesting point.

is it just me or does it seem like jack does not want to want elizabeth? ...but for some reason he finds himself wanting her? almost like forbidden fruit really

he wants her..thats his temptation..its to either let someone in close to him..or run away from it (dog in movie 1 with the bone )

he is afraid of being HURT if he lets someone in close to him..thats my opinion anyway

doggie has the bone though..at the end of movie 2..he accepted it..he DID go back for liz at the end..because its what he WANTS MOST

he had the choice to run away from her..or embrace her..and he embraced her..

he knows she wants will..well at the beginning of the movie..his battling his heart vs brain like i mention in a thread. in his heart he wants liz, but in his mind is telling him 'no u fool shes with will shes gonna get married or probably is married and shes gonna be happy' so thats another thing he gets pissed at. not only bc elizabeth is good on tricking him and practically leaves him speecheless, is becasue shes choosing a life when he knows that she doesnt want it..shes doing it bc in her mind is the right thing but in her heart she wants freedom..

yes you are so right^^ you really are

now this is what worries me..when Liz did that to him..is he really ok with it..or is he going to be increadibly pissed off?..she seems to infuriate him because she keeps screwing him over..

but that scene was very different to what we first saw in movie 1..she betrayed him, and he was about to shoot her..he was fuming

This time..I think he knew why she did it..because she is afraid of loving him...he had no anger this time..he was smiling..and he did almost kiss her again..when she was about to kiss him again..and that made him smile even more.

so coming back and being pissed at her? NO I dont think so

Liz is going to say something that pisses him off/hurts him and thats going to be why he tries to teach her that little lesson with Sao Feng..when he realizes she's in danger oh boy is he going to be terrified..he's going to want that woman back and safe in his arms..

i think ibve just realised why 'the kiss' was so hott....


coz SHE kissed HIM.
How come i never realised that before?!

he never made a move, she did all the work...which was why my heart skipped a beat...


But if jack held the compass and it wouldnt stay still does that mean he is not sure if it is lust or love?

the compass pointed at jack as soon as elizabeth opened the damn thing...so she must have been pretty sure what she wanted...
or was she?

maybe by material posessions ted meant things that you want to make your own?

oh i dont know lol

jack is gonna teach liz a lesson. but harmless..he cares about liz to much for her to get kidnapped or killed. he cares ENOUGH for her to give her a lesson to knock some sense into liz and say "hey i may be a pirate but aim human. I have feelings like the rest"

He thinks its going to be harmless but he realizes that she is missing..it knocks sense into her and it also knocks some sense into him. When he's running after the key (after being pulled out of the grave/purgatory) he lets it drop...and then when he's running in the wheel looking at it he's all smiling thinking he's going to get it back nice and safe he then gets knocked out ..its like YOU IDIOt jack..!! now go and GET HER!he still chases that key..he then protects it from Will..who has it on the end of his sword..and Will actually loses it to Jack who puts it back round his neck..

Oh and by the way T.Maria I think that is authentic..its been confirmed on lots of JD sites as official...I saw a mention of it the the other day on a site..

yeah chiki mina i agree, he is gonna teach her a lesson.

i have a feeling it will be very jack-like, and most probably backfire (as evrything always seems to with jack) but i think it will deffinately make her see him for what he is...a true pirate.

ive heard rumours bout the asian pirate taking her away (because jack uses her as leverage) and if that works out then i can see it paying off, coz she will realise then that Jack is a man of his word.

pirate


PS LovelyOne, thanks for confirming it!
it just makes it all the more interesting..........

Wow, that article answered so many questions while also bringing up more. We now KNOW that Jack wants Liz. But the real question is, the Liz want Jack? The compass shows what you WANT most not want your HEART DESIRES. So maybe, she just wants him as an object, not really as someone to actually love.

See, for the first while of the movie, Liz WANTS to find the chest cause that's the only way to find Will. The reason she wants to find Will is cause her HEART is with Will and in order get that "want", she needs to find the chest. Therefore, the compass points to the chest. But later on, she has some lust, thus making her WANT Jack for such reasons. But is her HEART still with Will? If that even makes sense...


btw, I'm a Jack/Liz shipper... just purely speculating from reading that Waffle analogy.

jack is in neither good side or bad, even though HE IS A GOOD MAN, but he is just Jack. he puts ppl into trouble yet he knows he should get them out and he knows hes responsible. So he gets them out of trouble...yet surprising ppl all the time

so because of that, do you think, we'll get our end?

OKAY HAVING HEART ATTACKS HERE....

Why the heck didn't we know all this before?!?! thank you Ted~!!!

im freaking out literally.

So we know Jack wants Liz, and has since 1, for sure and certain. We know that for sure now.

But Jack is just a waffle to Liz? I dont like the way that's put...
Actually the first time i read it i thought he might mean LIZ was the waffle to Jack, my mistake, haha...

But is Jack just a waffle? IMO, Will is a waffle and Jack is a banquet. But his waffle theory makes sense. Liz is ready to be married, Will's not around, Jack is.. there ya go.

BUT since they've established that Jack truly wants Liz most, right from the very beginning, are they going to DENY JACK!?!?!?! they CANT!!!!! Jack is the WHOLE FREAKING SERIES. WIthout Jack, nothing matters, ya know???

SO screw the waffle thing, Ted, and give the girl to Jack. It would be pointless to deny your powerhouse in order to satisfy your little waffle theory.

Oh gee. im freaking out.

okay wait a second. calm down, me. before i freak out anymore...

i dont think this is real.

i dont think the writer got on that thread, or posted such CLEAR evidence about what the characters were thinking/feeling...

I think someone made this up.

SOrry guys...

I agree with most of it, but i dont think its real. but thats just me!

i completely agree w u kate^^^
will is like the waffle and jack is like the waffle w syrup and strawberries and just a banquet lol thats very good. will offers liz a home and kids. jack offers her freedom. freedom says it all!!

if my heart theory is correct with the heart then YES it crossed over to love with Jack just as he came back fo her.

i think the only reason she did that to him was because she was so despreate to be rid of him..now that she has feelings of love for him..she's terrfied of them..

and those first 57 pages of the draft script are proven to be real by Disney (wikipedia.com) so yes..she does get kidnapped because of Jack as soon as she shows her typical denail over him...it either hurts him or pisses hir off..cuz even will seems to be cold shouldering him in that scene..so he gets them both back..at the same time..

I think the fact that she gets kidnapped from sao fengs ship by the EITC and norrington whilst Jack thinks she's safe teaches him an important lesson too..it knocks some sense into him about Liz..to stop treating her like leverage..because he cares for her..ALOT

when he realizes the jar of dirt is empty and the heart is gone..he is TERRIFIED

so when he realizes Liz is in danger..he will just want to find her and have her back with him safe and sound....he wont want to lose her like that AGAIN..he wont ever put her through something like that gain either.....it will teach him a lesson. I'm sure of it.

exactly^^another score lol. maybe this kidnapping had to happen. to wake up jack and liz and will!. to wake up jack by showing him that AGAIN HE IS A GOOD MAN to go to the rescue to save lizz and to show that lil silly vengeance like that its not worth it. To liz it would be a wake-up call showing her that it is not right TO PLAY OTHER PEOPLES FEELINGS and deny ur own feelings, and that jack is willing to do anything to make up for his mistake to save liz-the woman he loves. For Will anoter wake-up call to show him that these 2 jack/liz are willing to do anything to save eachother. And that liz is truely happy with jack and that jack CAN and WILL make liz happy. So hopeully Will will come to notice that BUT will he be able to accept it..hmm dont think so.
I believe this is the part where will goes to the evil side... he just noticed that these 2 are willing to do anything for eachother and he wants stop them..even if it costs death

Jack has feelings for Liz. That's pretty much written down in stone. So this article pretty much confirms that he ISN'T using her strictly as an object.

But does Liz love him back? Or is SHE the one whom is using him, just to satisfy her needs until Will comes back? Cause that may be the truth, judging by the Waffle analogy. Which I think implies that Jack = Waffle and Will = Feast, just like Katelovesthempirates said.

Yes i agree with you on what you say..Jack is going to save her again and Will is going to be pissed off..and I really feel as if he is going to hurt Liz..he's the one who is going to stab the heart I think..its basically been set up that he will by the end of movie 2..he has the kife..he is the one who wants to stab the heart the MOST..

What is Will going to do to her? That is what i'm wondering..will it be really killing her..or will he just tottaly hurt her to the point where Liz can never forgive him?..

Jack wont EVER put Liz in that kind of position again(sao feng's ship)..its like a "you dont know what you got till its gone" kind of wakeup call to him..he WILL get her back and he wont ever let her go after that. Thats my opinion anyway..

Liz will probably learn not to fool around with Jack's heart like you said..She should either say yes or no to him by this point..

and from what i see with the key..Jack still remains the key to her heart..it seems as if Will is violent with her/hurts her emotionally ( has the key on his sword) and Jack saves it from him..

"I believe this is the part where will goes to the evil side... he just noticed that these 2 are willing to do anything for eachother and he wants stop them..even if it costs death" - - - chiki Mina


I like the way you think...
Although just like KateLovesPirate i am staring to worry again

I think the lust thing has just sort of stumped me


Jack; the mighty Belgian waffle


Although I agree with Lovelyone with Elizabeth maybe crossing over to love when Jack comes back to the Pearl...the camera angle when Elizabeth looks up to see Jack with his foot on the pistol...the image of jack is distorted coz of the LIGHT shining on Jack...almost as if ELIZABETH has SEEN THE LIGHT...
(or am i just getting cliched? lol)

LOL I always thought of that too^^ its like "OMFG" to her..he's like godlike to her in that scene..

I'm guessing by the "material objects only" thing means that they want to make something theirs..they want to have that thing they want most

AHHH but it may have been switching between love and lust!!..because she also was led to the chest...and it points to the chest because she wants to save the person she loves most...JACK needs the chest too and she KNOWS it..so its pointing at Jack when he gives her attention..and it also points to the chest as a reflex of that attention? as in she wants to show him love too because he makes her feel so sexy....she wants to save him as well as have him...

was it ted who said the material objects thing?

well see at the beginning it was LUST. again here i go again with the heart vs brain theory.<<i should make a thread lol. at the beginning liz was filled with lust for jack lust is also a feeling so she was having feelings towards jack since he was flirting with her. she smiled bc shes impressed that the great cpatain sparrow is flirting with her lol. she knows that HE knows that shes gonna get married and is supposedly in love with will. and yet still flirts with her so she is flattered by that, that he likes to tease her-meaning that he thinks about her alot! i think the lost got subsided when she found will and she was reliefed to finally find him safe and alive. but that lost kind off went away since jack lied to her. then she was thinking this man is just using me!!(brain) she thinks that she SHOULD stay with will bc he never lies to her and loves her!(heart)she insists that jack is a GOOD MAN, she has a strong feeling about it and wasnt expecting it untill he rescued her from the kraken. thats when she came to realize(heart) jack was willing to risk for her to save her and that he did the right thing for her...as in result of this she fell in love. (Brain)she knows its wrong-or thinks its wrong, what will society thinks, SHE IS ENGAGED TO WILL, and she is scared to fall in love with a pirate.
this is basically heart vs brain.

good theory chiki Mina!
never thought about the heart vs brain thing!

Yes LovelyOne, it was Ted who added it ... which i found VERY intreguing as you yourself have been going on about jack and his materialistic tendancies as of late lol

If this material object thing is correct then maybe elizabeth does indeed want jack as something more than a materialistic waffle

I'm rather intregued by the waffle theory though..but why couldnt it have been a fairy cake? ... they have a better taste...

I suppose this new information brings to light how elizabeth REALLY feels...coz im damn sure from this that we know how jack feels

yes thats very true actually..I agree with both of you..

I just found it strange that they added in the fact Liz knew Jack desperately needed the chest too..not Just Will...I just think that maybe subconciously she was trying to help Jack as a result of the attention she was getting from him.. when she thought was pointing there so she could find Will

Also did you see how desperate Jack looked before Liz found out the truth that he lied..he looked as if he really DIDN'T want her to know..as in "oh crap!! I've lost her"

hey T.Maria have u written a fanfiction??

damn you caught me lol yeah i have....
its on adultfanfiction.net

its basically my take on what happened with jack/elizabeth when they werent on screen (kinda like the little scenes everyone writes on here which i really enjoy lol) to make them have so much chemistry when they were on it lol

yeah i noticed the desperation LovelyOne!
i THRIVE off it! ... although i tend to see that our dear Mr. Waffle hides his feelings behind humour....

I READ UR STORY! it was good i read all of it lol im gonna ur other story lol. ur a good writer if ur an author in adulltfanfiction or fanfiction i will cath u lool.

BACK TO SUBJECT

YES LOVELY!! ur right ever since that persuassion scen something clikcked him in his heart. He forgot he lied to her and when she caught him in a lie he was like oh shit no no no..very much regretting that he lied to liz cus he knows that he has feelings towards her.

hmm it also means that she was gagging to kiss him..so that Kiss wasnt just to chain him up like so many people are determined to believe

She betrayed him to get that kiss and also remove him from her life..proved to be a lot harder than she thought..

She could have done that to him any other way..like threatening him with a sword whilst his back is turned..

i love how we started calling him Mr Waffle.

waffles are going to taste so much better now. hehehe.

lool @ kate. with syrup cherry on top

awww thanks chiki mina
im not finished with the new one yet...work in progress lol


with the whole lying thing...i dont know whether hes too sorry about it....he says "time and tides" or something to that effect, and to me that says the same as his saying "pirate"...as if it should be expected of him.


But thats why he enthralls her...he sets his own rules of what he can and cant do, just by simply saying the word 'pirate' or something along those lines...a rebel with a cause.

Maybe thats the metaphor for the 'material object' that the compass points to? ... she wants him for who he is...notice; she is the only one in the film to REALLY see the 'good' man inside...everyone else only gets a glipse of it.
Also, she was the only one to see him escape from the pearl (before he came back). and therefore this means that it meant MORE to her than the other crew mates....

ALSO this whole really wanting her but trying to play it cool thing makes that whole frustated grunt all the more funnier as she walks away during the "persuade me scene"

all this sexual tension between these two has to lead something bigger by movie 3,

That also makes the ending all the more funnier...the giant squid/vagina resembling Liz IMO..spitting out all that...well you know..then jack jumps INTO IT as bold as bold can be..

I wonder if this means they will have sex in movie 3?...we might not see it but it might be implied..

thats so true!!! they both see a side of eachother that is hidden from the world. there can be a billion things going on around them with millions of people surounding them and they only SEE eachother, they only see the side thats hidden. Thats how they form their own bond and their own world. Their own world is jack and liz, the rest doesnt matter. They understand eachother..thats what freaks elizabeth alot

LMFFAO!

From Mr Waffle stroking the penis shaped handle on the helm at the end of POTC1 when he gets his Pearl back ... to a giant wrikly vagina swallowing him in the second film ....

Poetic justice...

I thought the grunt was fan-dabby-dosy!!!! so frustrated by it...but i rekon he was a little shocked also coz he didn't quite realise how much of an effect she actually did have on him.

we're not done with tension in the 3rd one i know that for sure..and everytime Mr Waffle and Elizabeth are together talking you know stupid bloody will is gonna have an ear to the door!!!

I think ted said that the compass doesn't point to something because you like what the person is (pirate) ..it means you actually want that person..i think..

Why on EARTH would the compass point to the chest for Will though if she truly wanted him instead of Jack? I'ts like she doesnt want him for him..she just wants him to be safe...she wants Jack as in a love interest..but she only wants Will to be safe..If she truley wanted Will instead of Jack it would have pointed to WILL'S location not the chest..Will just cant give her the THRILL she's looking for..

its as simple as this.....
Elizabeth LOVES Will but ISNT IN LOVE with him.
Elizabeth is IN LOVE with Jack.
Elizabeth loves Will, hes a gentleman, hes sweet, and is like her cest friend or brother. But as a husband for her she wouldnt feel all that satisfied, shell be feeling empty somewhat, and she doesnt have that bond with Will as in with Jack.
Elizabeth is in love with jack. Loves him bc he showed her a side of him that was hidden from the world. A side of him that was intriguing and made her fall in love. With him she fills completed. Hes perfect for her that AGAIN she gets freeked out. Because it is a dream come to reality for her. Always wanted to meet a pirate she got one and more! she fell in love!! It was completely unexpected to her.

lol

i have a feeling you might be right about this compass...i mean, did you actually see a scene when Elizabeth was with Jack when she was actually THINKING about will?
Some people argue about the marr-iage scene...i disagree.
She was thinking about her wedding night...and WHY was she thinking about that? because in the scene before jack had told her to persuade him! ...its almost as if hes making her think of primal lust!
....which turns into something more later on.


However, against this is the idea that Ted has basically set it all out for us within that post;

Jack is a waffle (all yummy )
Will is a feast (although presonally i don't see one...)
and elizabeth is wanting the waffle because she can't have the feast...
the waffle is what she takes a fancy to instead...although i have a feeling there were MANY times within the film when the waffle actually looked more appetising that the feast did....

Human shishkebab, anyone?? :P


PS: chiki Mina i wanna agree with you about elizabeth is inlove with jack....i think she will be but not yet...atm i think she's just realised her true feelings and needs to properly work them out.
She knows something is there. she knows she lusted after him...but now shes realised its deffinately more after the kiss, coz she needs more than that, and she has realised that only Mr Waffle can give it to her (no pun intended )

I think Liz has always been in love with Jack..she's been waiting for him all her life..she has her suitors..but none of them come close to marrying her...

She is penelope from the Odyssey I'm CONVINCED!

Odysseus is Jack

and the suitors are Norrington and Will..and they are quite disliked characters..which makes me think all the more that Will is going to do something bad to her.

Will is gonna lose a ton of credibilty in the next movie me thinks..he is going to become the least worthy of Liz..IMO then its norrington..and then Jack wins out..HE BETTER DISNEY *shakes fist*

Calypso tries to make Jack immortal..but no...he choses to go back to penelope..

Originally posted by T.Maria
lol

i have a feeling you might be right about this compass...i mean, did you actually see a scene when Elizabeth was with Jack when she was actually THINKING about will?
Some people argue about the marr-iage scene...i disagree.
She was thinking about her wedding night...and WHY was she thinking about that? because in the scene before jack had told her to persuade him! ...its almost as if hes making her think of primal lust!
....which turns into something more later on.


However, against this is the idea that Ted has basically set it all out for us within that post;

Jack is a waffle (all yummy )
Will is a feast (although presonally i don't see one...)
and elizabeth is wanting the waffle because she can't have the feast...
the waffle is what she takes a fancy to instead...although i have a feeling there were MANY times within the film when the waffle actually looked more appetising that the feast did....

Human shishkebab, anyone?? :P


PS: chiki Mina i wanna agree with you about elizabeth is inlove with jack....i think she will be but not yet...atm i think she's just realised her true feelings and needs to properly work them out.
She knows something is there. she knows she lusted after him...but now shes realised its deffinately more after the kiss, coz she needs more than that, and she has realised that only Mr Waffle can give it to her (no pun intended )

LOL you make me laugh!

the feast though..does this mean that she's going to want that in th long run??..is the feast going to ultimatley be more satisfying to her than the waffle..in the long run?

funny how she decided to NOT eat the feast in movie 1 because a pirate was present ..she was tempted with an apple and stopped eating the feast all together....(katelovespirate's theory)


LOl with Liz its also like.."why eat the feast when you can have the BEST thing on the menu?"
----------------------------------
Or was it the fact that Jack came back for her that suddenly threw her in the deep end with all her emotions towards him? and the betrayal was a result of that? she just wanted to remove him because she is in no way ready for it...

i read a fanfic comparing jack/odysseus ...but i still didnt understand it

I only understand Han solo and Princess Leia coz ive seen the films lol

We know liz had the fascination with pirates...now THAT is the overall story...she called Will a pirate at the end of the first film. but he aint satisying her lol

i'm off-skis' people!
work in the morning!!

speak to you all again soon!!

nite nite!
xx

night xx

oh feck its late!!

I'll try explain the odysseus thing to ya soon..

bye maria!

Lovely ur right thats why jack smiles when she chained him up. HE KNOWS WHY shes doing it. and its not about persuasion or curiosity anymore its about love-she fell in love with captain jack sparrow!! To him is satisfying that she fell for him and is acting in a "selfish impulse" bc she fears what ppl are gonna say abuot her being with a pirate/jack.

Just wanna pop in to say hello! I know I haven't been posting but I've been still lurking around, reading up hungrily on the pirate news. Anyway... YAY FOR TED ELLIOT!! and Go LovelyOne.. utterly spot-on in your deductions. You've been proved right by the writer himself. heheheh!!

Oh please, T&T, give us the explosive tension between Jack and Liz!! The only thing I'm afraid of is that they may lose the sexual chemistry in the 3rd film. o_O remember Empires Strikes Back -- the palpable tension between Han and Leia was sizzling!! But where the heck did that go in Return of the Jedi??? But all in all, I'm not too worried. Johnny Depp would be capable of having chemistry with a paper sack.

And one more thing: someone may have already thought of this.. but maybe Disney removing all those Pirates clips from YOUTUBE was a good thing?? There were literally thousands of comments on those clips swooning over the Jack/Liz connection. And I'm assuming that the Disney people at least glanced over those (I know I would, if it were my movie) and maybe they got more powerful affirmation of our fan love for Jack and Liz. Either way, they have to at least be AWARE of this.. phenomenon.

Viva la Sparrow!!

Originally posted by vegaofthelyre
Just wanna pop in to say hello! I know I haven't been posting but I've been still lurking around, reading up hungrily on the pirate news. Anyway... YAY FOR TED ELLIOT!! and Go LovelyOne.. utterly spot-on in your deductions. You've been proved right by the writer himself. heheheh!!

Oh please, T&T, give us the explosive tension between Jack and Liz!! The only thing I'm afraid of is that they may lose the sexual chemistry in the 3rd film. o_O remember Empires Strikes Back -- the palpable tension between Han and Leia was sizzling!! But where the heck did that go in Return of the Jedi??? But all in all, I'm not too worried. Johnny Depp would be capable of having chemistry with a paper sack.

And one more thing: someone may have already thought of this.. but maybe Disney removing all those Pirates clips from YOUTUBE was a good thing?? There were literally thousands of comments on those clips swooning over the Jack/Liz connection. And I'm assuming that the Disney people at least glanced over those (I know I would, if it were my movie) and maybe they got more powerful affirmation of our fan love for Jack and Liz. Either way, they have to at least be AWARE of this.. phenomenon.

Viva la Sparrow!!

I LOVE THIS. you are so funny. loved the part about johnny having chemistry with a paper sack. HAHAHAHA.

I agree...they must realize that in order to top movie 2's ending..they will HAVE to make it a Jack/Liz thing

you now what I notice..on johnny depp boards alot of people don't want Jack to get with Liz..they think its NOT what he wants(they dont think the compass pointed to her) ..so thats why they are still rooting for a Will/Liz thing They think Will is the better man for her..I reckon by movie 3..its going to be made CLEAR as DAY that Jack wants this woman in his life more than anything else..and that he is willing to do ANYTHING for her..the other men aren't even going to be WORTHY of her by the end of movie 3 I bet you!!.

.its just like him with that key it was like at first when he got it it was like..aw thats not fair..he tricked will and Norri out of it...and THEN he is so bloody persistent and you KNOW he wants it the most more than anyone else...you eventually just WANT him to get that DAMN KEY *cough* Liz *cough* because the other 2 men..just AREN'T worthy of it..they are BUSY doing their own thing..will even stabs it for gods sake..Jack wins it and its like "oh FINALLY thank god" I have a feeling that is what they are gonna do with the next installment..

we left thinking..hmm does Liz really want Jack..and does Jack really want Liz?...and by the end its going to be made CLEAR that they do really want eachother more than anything in the world.

movie 2 was the mixture of emotions movie..movie 3 is going to be the realization moment for all the characters IMO

i just got on keeptothecode, and you know, we have much more intelligent discussions than them. hehehe.

LovelyOne, i agree with you... either way, the writers are going to have to be especially clever because they have to convince about half of the people in the theatre to accept whichever side of the love triangle they choose to have.

According to rumors and theories, however, which i agree with, Will IS going to become very devious and slightly more dangerous in 3. Dramatic character transformation on his part bodes well for him getting the girl, imo.

HOWEVER< I think we are ALSO going to see Jack's character transform--- i think we are going to get some history about him, and see him step up and be even more heroic than usual.

Its a toss up. there's just no way to know. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH....

BAACK!

ive just had an epiphony (of some sort...if thats even how u spell it...)

Elizabeth has accepted Jack for who he is.
Elizabeth accepted Will for WHO he is...not who he will become.


She fell inlove with dear sweet stupid will....the man who is only kinda half pirate....

Shes FALLING inlove with Jack...a character whom showed her his true colours from the start and she STILL felt attracted to him, warts and all (though i am pretty sure no actual warts are involved...hopefully....)

I have a feeling this change in wills characted will make her think about who she wants...if will goes darker, this is NOT the man she first fell inlove with; he will be a different perserson, whereas she knew what jack was all about from the beginning...

and now she has truly accepted jack for what he is, and she is slowly falling inlove with that side of him.

Chiki Mina was right about jack and elizabeth only showing the other side of themselves to eachother...showing anyone else is like a weakness...


Go me...I didn't think my brain would be working so well today

Gosh I haven't been on here in a couple of days...this is a very interesting thread...so LovelyOne, we were right...the compass is pointing to LIz and Jack, vice versa......It's what you want MOST in this world....well, want has to come before love, girls....Lust must come before Love - or love doesn't last, take it from me....so, Elizabeth love's Will, she has known Will since they were about 13....I don't think she is overly sexually attracted to Will...other than Norrington, he's the only man that's really been in her life...and then that fateful day happens when she is rescued by a real, true, handsome, sexy Pirate...she is attracted to said Pirate, but refuses to accept said attraction because she is suppose to love Will - so.....in movie 2 - when she and Jack are constantly around each other this attraction starts to take over....it consumes them, they can't help themselves....THEY ARE LUSTING AFTER EACH OTHER....and this lust is leading to love....I think in the end of the movie....it is obvious how serious Jack is here....he has realized that Liz means more to him than just lust.....

I'm totally still offended that Jack is called "waffle" and Will is called "feast".

More like,

Will is wheat thin crackers,

and Jack is devil's food chocolate cake.

AGREED^^^^^^^^^^ with BOTH

LOL AND..once a person has eaten the waffle first...who in their right mind would go back to the feast?? NO one does that!

Once when I was a kid..I had the choice between taking a cake or eating my dinner..once I had the cake..I just couldn't go and eat that damn dinner

i think what it comes down to is this:

From Ted's comment, we know for SURE Jack wants Elizabeth and has wanted her very consistently. That should settle it all, but unfortunately the writers/director might not realize how the audience roots for Jack and wants him to get whatever he wants.

So it will come down to Liz... she will get to choose who to go with.

Things I think might possibly happen:

- tia seduces norrington

-Liz and Jack have one hott night before Liz marries Will

I dont think Will is going to even be worthy of Liz by the end of movie 3..its gonna switch round..IMO

Will's character has barley changed..its all been saved up..something big and bad is going to happen with him..and its WAY OVERDUE..which would give him reason to be the person who hurts Liz the most..

"Is it SO bad that Liz is falling for Jack..does that make her a bad person?" - Basicaly what teddie boy is saying I think..

In my opinion. No it doesn't make her a bad person...people and relationships change all the time..we very rarley stick with our first loves..we often realize that they are not right for us...Liz has wanted to be a pirate since before she even met William Turner..she is married to the pirate lifestyle..and she wants Jack.. She always has...She's only just begining to realize it though now that its been dangled infront of her..why should she be punished for embracing what she wants most in life?

What makes a person a bad person is selfishly stopping someone at all costs from being happy in life just so you can keep that person to yourself..and I think Will is going to do this to Elizabeth and Jack in movie 3....he is mirroring Davy Jones.

Davy Jones hates Jack for "stealing his woman"

Davy Jones hates Calypso for choosing Jack..because "he can never love her like I do"

If will mirrors him (like the drectors say he's going to)..then He's going to do the exact same thing to Liz and Jack...and he's going to use the same argument:

"Liz is being "stolen" by Jack who can NEVER love her like I do"

When ever did Jack "force" Liz to fall for him? NEVER

How could Jack "not love her" when he actually came back for her on the pearl her for that very purpose?

they are falling for eachother naturally..and Will cant see it...or is it that he WONT see it?..Is he going to lie to himself so that he can SELFISHLY keep liz to himself??

Will is probably going to be determined not to believe that Jack can love her and that she is in fact choosing to be with him..she is not being FORCED to be with Jack..she's choosing it herself..

there is a VERY thin line between loving someone and hating someone..and Is will going to cross that line?

I see your point about Will, LovelyOne.

There is indeed a very thin line.
I dont think he will completely hate elizabeth...but i have a feeling that the way POTC2 was set up at the beginning.

Beckett: Jack Sparrow-

W/E: Captain!

Elizabeth: Captain Jack sparrow (shes already defending his honour)

Beckett: Friend of yours? (or something along those lines...)

Will: Aquaintance..


Aquaintance?!?!?!? .... yes, i sense foreshadowing in the ranks...stupid bloody will


Im also totally disagreeing with this waffle thing...
Maybe ted put it that way coz he knew our Jack was a Nummy Treat??

A nummy waffle treat!

A nummy waffle treat LOL!! LovelyOne, I totally agree with that...

im just hoping this speculation is right and that dear elizabeth DOES move from lusting after the waffle, and starts to fall inlove with it instead.

(and i'm truly sorry to anyone who has not read this thread properly and has dove straight in to see people talking about waffles and feasts...)


However, LovelyOne you asked whether elizabeth will think the feast is the one elizabeth will choose for the long run?

Well...a feast is all good when its fresh and exciting and the array of food is never ending...but what happens when there is nothing left to choose from because the food is slowly going mouldy and looking slightly off-colour??
(ie - she has seen all there is to will)

...that waffle looks all the more tempting
(ie - Jack will never fail to surprise!)

OMG, Jack as a waffle...well, in my book he is a Chocolate Brownie with Hot Fudge, Ice Cream, topped off with whipped cream and a cherry on top...OMG the man is incredibly gorgeous, sexy, handsome...I watched some of the commentary from POTC 1 the other night....it is so funny with Keira and Jack Davenport....in the rescue scene she says, "Oh, He is sooo good looking, come closer Johnny"....yeah, I guess I would be saying that tooo....

Anyway....Just think that if this is a true comment by Ted...then all the things We've thought about the compass is true...I've said it many times...the compass is the ultimate clue in the movie....and we do know it spends aimlessly for Jack...because he wants Liz, but he doesn't...he is torn...well, he wants her...but he knows he shouldn't and he probably thinks he doesn't really stand a chance with her...especially after the way she tricked him on the island with the rum....and we said this on another thread weeks ago...that it is obvious that Jack must be thinking about Liz when he says "why is the rum always gone" and he is obviously frustrated with the compass in that scene....

Originally posted by katelovespirate
okay wait a second. calm down, me. before i freak out anymore...

i dont think this is real.

i dont think the writer got on that thread, or posted such CLEAR evidence about what the characters were thinking/feeling...

I think someone made this up.

SOrry guys...

I agree with most of it, but i dont think its real. but thats just me!

I know I find it hard to believe that Ted would spend his time reading forums and responding to them/////

Just like I don't believe the Leaked POTC 3 script...I've read and there are just parts of if that are just not right...like the "oh Shit" discriptions...now don't see Ted and Terry writing that....so I guess we will wait and see...but I don't very much that when POTC 3 comes out that it doens't even resemble that leaked script...however, the parts with Pintel and Ragetti are quite believable, sort of...

Originally posted by LovelyOne
hmm it also means that she was gagging to kiss him..so that Kiss wasnt just to chain him up like so many people are determined to believe

She betrayed him to get that kiss and also remove him from her life..proved to be a lot harder than she thought..

She could have done that to him any other way..like threatening him with a sword whilst his back is turned..

I truly believe this....she wanted to kiss Jack...she wanted to know what it was like, she was unable to resist,,,and then she also became a pirate when she gave into that selfish impulse...to risk Jack to save herself...but not realizing until later the consequences of her actions...I think she definitely realizes that Jack cares about her...and this is dangerous in her mind...cuz all of her life she's loved Will, she's suppose to marry him and now here's Jack showing that he's a good man and that he cares about her, nothing is more tell-tell about what's going on with Jack then when he says "She's only a ship, mate." He's talking about the Black Pearl, OMG>....she's thinking OMG he's willing to give up the Pearl....and of course the sunlight shinning behind him definitely symbolizes her hero worhsip of him....she has unconditional faith in Jack....when she crawls up and hangs on his leg is the sexiext part of the entire movie...other than the kiss and the almost kiss right at the end....mouth to mouth, nose to nose, eyes closed...but then no kiss..now that's what I call hot sexual tension...to be continued in MOVIE 3 - it's gotta be..or the trilogy will be incomplete in my book and I will be left with a sour taste in my mouth....but I guess I will still enjoy seeing Johnny Depp one more time as Captain Jack Sparrow

Originally posted by vegaofthelyre
Just wanna pop in to say hello! I know I haven't been posting but I've been still lurking around, reading up hungrily on the pirate news. Anyway... YAY FOR TED ELLIOT!! and Go LovelyOne.. utterly spot-on in your deductions. You've been proved right by the writer himself. heheheh!!

Oh please, T&T, give us the explosive tension between Jack and Liz!! The only thing I'm afraid of is that they may lose the sexual chemistry in the 3rd film. o_O remember Empires Strikes Back -- the palpable tension between Han and Leia was sizzling!! But where the heck did that go in Return of the Jedi??? But all in all, I'm not too worried. Johnny Depp would be capable of having chemistry with a paper sack.

And one more thing: someone may have already thought of this.. but maybe Disney removing all those Pirates clips from YOUTUBE was a good thing?? There were literally thousands of comments on those clips swooning over the Jack/Liz connection. And I'm assuming that the Disney people at least glanced over those (I know I would, if it were my movie) and maybe they got more powerful affirmation of our fan love for Jack and Liz. Either way, they have to at least be AWARE of this.. phenomenon.

Viva la Sparrow!!

LOL - chemistry with a paper sack...that is so true...Johnny is a walking hot, male full of chemistry....love himmmm

Originally posted by T.Maria
lol

i have a feeling you might be right about this compass...i mean, did you actually see a scene when Elizabeth was with Jack when she was actually THINKING about will?
Some people argue about the marr-iage scene...i disagree.
She was thinking about her wedding night...and WHY was she thinking about that? because in the scene before jack had told her to persuade him! ...its almost as if hes making her think of primal lust!
....which turns into something more later on.


However, against this is the idea that Ted has basically set it all out for us within that post;

Jack is a waffle (all yummy )
Will is a feast (although presonally i don't see one...)
and elizabeth is wanting the waffle because she can't have the feast...
the waffle is what she takes a fancy to instead...although i have a feeling there were MANY times within the film when the waffle actually looked more appetising that the feast did....

Human shishkebab, anyone?? :P


PS: chiki Mina i wanna agree with you about elizabeth is inlove with jack....i think she will be but not yet...atm i think she's just realised her true feelings and needs to properly work them out.
She knows something is there. she knows she lusted after him...but now shes realised its deffinately more after the kiss, coz she needs more than that, and she has realised that only Mr Waffle can give it to her (no pun intended )

right, we've said this before...the dress is sinking to the ocean...as is her relationship with Will...and up walks Jack - the source of all her torment....she is thinking about Jack..made obvious by Norrington just after the Persuade me scene....she is "trouble" because she thinks she is in love with Will, but yet can't stop thinking about Jack...if she was really thinking about Will she would have said "I miss Will, I'm so ready to be married to him"...but, no the way she says it, she leaves herself wide open for the invitations that come from Jack...he interprets them as sexual...and that's just what they are....she wants Jack....not Will...

Lovethemtigers,

i love your speculation, and i seem to agree that it is 'want' rather than 'lust' that draws her to jack.
I REALLY do want jack and liz together, coz they were polar opposites to begin with, and now the way elizabeth has changed has made her a great companion for Jack...

But for some reason theres a little part of me (the tiniest speck of brain unfilled in my head....) that believes it just wont happen.

YES, we will get a resolve..we will get more unresolved sexual tension...but i seem to think it will be resolved by the end and elizabeth will go back to will (you have NO idea how hard it is for me to say that!)

I know there are plenty of GREAT theories made by everyone, and i DO believe them...but i believe it all up until the end where they say "Elizabeth will go with Jack"...which saddens me

And i think this quote by ted has made it worse for me

Ive realised jack is the "waffle"...he is the one that looks tempting when there is no 'feast' ...

Whereas if you had the 'feast' infront of you then you would not choose the 'waffle' ...


(i tend to disagree with the theory the way it was explained though...who on gods earth would prefer a William feast over a Sparrow waffle????)

can anyone convince that tiny speck in my brain that its wrong??

Originally posted by T.Maria
Lovethemtigers,

Ive realised jack is the "waffle"...he is the one that looks tempting when there is no 'feast' ...

Whereas if you had the 'feast' infront of you then you would not choose the 'waffle' ...

can anyone convince that tiny speck in my brain that its wrong??

I would prefer the waffle because I absolutely love waffles, it's the best in the world...and it's no joke!

I too agree that the waffle is a nummy treat!

But the way ted says it, its as if he is saying that the waffle is all good when you have nothing else to eat...

But when your suddenly presented with a feast there is more of a choice....

Although, the feast is certainly spoiling my appetite with this metaphor...

yeah, I know what he meant, but I don't hope it and I don't belive it. They're too much into it then throw it all away and go back to stu... Will. They'll never make a film who's worser then the part before, or?

I'm getting really basly told of on kttc.com lol..Because I am a JE shipper and I have big points to make..I'm being told I dominate the theads..its such BS..everyone else is on there typing away about Will and no one says anything..But when I say something I get told off for it.

bc they are ungrateful lil ****ers. that they just want to believe its liz and will all the wya without them haveing facts or anything to support their theories. so forget them lovely. u belong here with us

never give up our hope, maybe we'll get our end (Liz/Jack) and then we could blame the others as stupid idiots

LOL yeah^^^

Also who goes back and eats the feast AFTER you have eaten the waffle?

apparently they are tied in with Disney..So i'm wondering if Disney is giving them alot of false info

I really dont understand why so many people on there actually prefer Will as a character to Jack Sparrow.

All that happens to you when you eat a feast is you get bloated, fat and cant move..you eat the waffle..and you can be hyped on sugar and be FREEEEEEEEEE

..NOT ME!!!


...just some crazy idiots

true. we cannot trust very much in web sites anymore. they like to add things alot. i think we should wait for like maybe 3 months or so to see any updates for at worlds end. ppl see the second movie and all they do is make shit up without facts or analyzing the movie. i have a feeling that it will be jack/liz. sure there would be many conflicts between liz and will. i think she fights trying to get will to come to his senses to come back to her but as a friend again whom she can trust not necesarilly as a fiance. thats my opinion

wonderful....i think it too

Oooh we should all go over there and kick some 'shipper ass!
...or is that getting us into more trouble? lol

LovelyOne, do they not respect your opinions over there???

I like this board coz everyone seems to respect one another. This is the only board i post on

and Elizabeth DESERVES Jack...everyone is right, i think i gotta jst have belief in it!

And for this, i say i am OFFICIALLY WAFFLEFIED!!!!!

They pass me off as a crackpot with bogus theories..because "Its not what the draft script said!!!!"

the draft script is a DRAFT script as in ITS BEEN CHANGED SINCE THEN!

yeah like a said: stupid children

hmmm are you brat_biotch lol?

they have nothing else to do really isnt a draft mean like they will CHANGE later. I realy hope disney wont let us down cause i love disney and if the let me down i will be so depressed

yes and i peeved alot of people off on there..thats the first time that has ever happend to me on a forum

Oooh...no one should believe in any script.

theyve sed disney has confirmed its real...but that just gived them an easy scape-goat then for people to be surprised when it isnt in the real one...IMO anyway.


And besides...most people defend W/E because at the end of the day the people that are on the defending side are usually the people who dont like change...and boy is there gonna be a change!

the people there are so worried about rules... there more like guidelines anyways...

yeah, of course, without change life is boring!

and when they started filming the 3rd they had no idea what the story is...so the script is maybe older than before they finished the second film

even the title of the site is basically "OBEY THE RULES OR DIE!"

then it's better to die

Im not sure who said it..but on another thread someone said (It MAY have been you LovelyOne...but i cant remember!) that POTC1 was supposed to be just the one movie...

they did not really think about doing another two.

When they got round to it, they realised it needed to be darker, and it needed to take a more interesting twist...

So they obviously realised that in the first one that Jack and Elizabeth had alot of chemistry (and boy do they!!) ... so the writers have acted on this, and also what they have had in feedback from the fans.

Therefore 2 and (im almost certain three aswell) are more...erm...sexually orientated? if thats a word for it? ...they didnt give the film a 12A rating for a reason (PG13 in america??? im english so its all confusing for me lol) and as it gets darker it will get more sexually frustrating too...and who better to pull it off that Johnny and Keira?!?

(IMO :
Ive seen ALOT of johnny depp films...and i have to say that weirdly ive never seen so much chemistry between him and another actress in a film before...to me its amazing!)

the point of my post (which i completely missed out lmao!) is this;

people who i know that have seen the film, who aren't even shippers and dont obsess about it like me have put it like this;


ME: So...pirates of the caribbean...

THEM: Oh yeah, how good was that film?!

ME: Johnny Depp was so hot!

THEM: Yeah...i like that the way they've got Elizabeth liking him, that coupling makes it more interesting because will and elizabeth are old news from the last one.


and i think EURIKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(also note that a NON SHIPPER of J/E ... my boyfriend actually, to my own shame lol... had to explain the compass thing to me because i TOTALLY missed it on the first viewing!!!!)

At the end of the day us loyal shippers are not the ones that matter here.....its the majority of people that go to watch a movie about adventure and action and romance that the writers want to please....and everyone that i have spoken to about outside of the internet world have said that J/E are better suited and they are a hott couple....


And the majority always wins

AWSOME^^^

its the people in the middle who they are going to please..becuase they make up the majority..not the shippers..

I'm kinda getting the hint there that Liz doesn't infact want to be a pirate...that whole "its not pointing to a waffle because you want to be belgian"

as in its not pointing to Jack because she wants to be a pirate...


but if thats the case..then why is Liz's character so obssesed with pirates? She probably knows she wants to be one..though...so..

good point lovelyone,

hmmm...so i guess that brings about the question;

Does Elizabeth want Jack because;

A: he is a Pirate ans therefore he is dangerous and dark and all those things that attract us girls to bad men?

Or

B: does she actually WANT him because she has seen the other side of him that (coincidentally) only she has seen?

ATM id say it was kinda swinging inbetween...
but by 3 she may well have changed her mind....


I think i mite try thinking like the majority...but remember, the majority also have no biased views against one character or another...which is also interesting when brought in with my last post....

Originally posted by T.Maria
good point lovelyone,

hmmm...so i guess that brings about the question;

Does Elizabeth want Jack because;

A: he is a Pirate ans therefore he is dangerous and dark and all those things that attract us girls to bad men?

Or

B: does she actually WANT him because she has seen the other side of him that (coincidentally) only she has seen?

ATM id say it was kinda swinging inbetween...
but by 3 she may well have changed her mind....


I think i mite try thinking like the majority...but remember, the majority also have no biased views against one character or another...which is also interesting when brought in with my last post....

I agree.. It seems that the very fact she saw that side of him..and the very fact she did the "bad thing" sort of suggests that she is having trouble deciding what she likes more about Jack..and judging by the tears?? "he's a good man" thats the side she likes more..and I seriosuly think that he is going to show this in movie 3..but he's gonna learn first..

seriosuly just watch how he is with the key as he follows it..he's learing from his mistakes as he does..its like LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKE *knocked out* now go and get her properly!!...he actually saves the key from Will who has it on his sword.

when he first put it on his neck he fell into a grave!!

he's hands her over to Sao feng for a week..but then she goes missing..and I bet he is an emotional wreck because of it..

Yeah I think she wants a combination of both A and B. She wants a man whose willing to do the right thing, while also wanting a man that is a total badass. Will is only one of these things. Jack, however, is both.

yeah...I like the key example...and I really think that liz is going to decide for him. she had shown her care about him in the first one already. while he should get hung she said: that's not right! and I think she only said it because she knew that he's a good man

he is quite literally learning "how to be the key to her heart"...

ooo how come a never realised that!
Jack is both of these things...

call me a geek or whatever lmao! but im a big buffy/spike shipper and a HUGE hermione/malfoy shipper... (but i stand proud! lol)

And these male characters have something similar to Jack that gives them that edge...and did Spike get the girl??
YES i believe he did!

Malfoy probably wont...but i guess i just love your typical;

good girl/ bad boy with a hidden good side

THOSE relationships make it all the more interesting, and the writers must have picked up on it from watching the footage.
BUT i think it may have been the unintentional chemistry between johhny/keira that made them think like that....they picked up on something HUGE and they knew that they needed to act on it

omg SPUFFY ..best EVER pairing on buffy the vampire slayer! EVER!! EVER EVER..thats why she ended up with him instead of BANGEL cuz BANGEL was as boring as watching paint dry.

and I totally agree with you on everythink you say..everyone would love to see malfoy get her though..it would be hot lol

Its always about the bad boy learning to be better for the girl too that makes the story so touching in the end!! that ending with Spuffy..my god I balled my eyes out..

with the girl it goes from hate..to liking..to lust..to love..

ALWAYS..and Liz is almost there ha ha

Angel also became rather selfish with her..which is what i think will is going to do..and then he decided to let her go for the better..

sad

You know what..Disney know how the spoilers spread like wildfire on that KTTC site..during the filming of DMC..so maybe now they are being a whole lot more cautious...like throwing out alod of crap for them to scramble for..

Also..I think I've picked up on something..I could be completely wrong..but its with this waffle analogy:

"Liz wanting Jack..but being with Will. Does this make her a bad person?"

I think this is a hint of what the next movie is gonna be about..

Does this make Liz a selfish person for becoming attracted to him? Hell no. People and relationships change all the time..we very rarely stick with our first loves..So will and Liz? were they really meant to be? I honestly don't think so.

Who would be the bad person in this equation?

The bad person would be the one who wants to selfishly keep someone to themselves when they know that person wants to be "free"..(but does Liz really want to be free though?? Its seems at the moment Disney are saying "no".).anyway

and this is where the Will/Davy similarity thing is going to come in...If Will is going to Mirror Davy in the story like the directors said..then this means his character's love towards Liz is going to turn into a SELFISH love..

Davy Jones is a bitter and horrible man..he hates Jack Sparrow and he hates Calypso so much so that he tore his heart out so he didn't have to love her anymore..

Now Will is probably going to start doing this..he's firstly gonna hate Jack...and then he's gonna start getting sick of Liz..more and more...what might he do to her to stop himself loving her if she chooses Jack??

Davy Jones's argument is "Jack sparrow cant love anyone..he's selfishly stealing my woman away from me..he has to stop..why is Tia choosing him over ME?"

Will is going to have the same argument IMO

but when did Jack ever steal Liz?? she did everything herself..on her own impulses

and Jack obviously can love her.."compass pointing to her at the end..going back to protect her" etc..

So Will....what is your FRIGGIN PROBLEM you selfish ass..be the better man..and realize this woman's heart belongs elsewhere..JACK CAN LOVE your woman..and we are gonna see him PROVE it.

EDIT - I think I might have already posted this before actually

I mean..The people on the KTTC forum..all say that Liz is not gonna pass from lust to love..but may I just ask..why did they add the lust in there if its not gonna change to love at some point?..is she just gonna be lusting after him and then suddenly stop?? tell me who gives up cold Turkey like that?? NO ONE..they find it hard..so IMO all this BS on that forum about LIZ being over Jack..I think they are WRONG

the people need a bit of a reality check I think..no one just gives up cold turkey like that..

I can imagine Disney making it so Liz was tempted but then decided to be the better woman for Will..but hang on...is will actually going to stay a worthy enough man for her?.. thought he was going to mirror Davy Jones??

and why is Jack's charcter suddenly looking for love..Is that going to just fizzle out?? Why start something up for no reason and then end it???

Originally posted by ivebeendepped43
sad

so are you

LovelyOne your not sad at all!
And if someone thinks you are then it makes two of us anyway lol


The Spuffy thing relates deffinately, its clear as day! and i for one never liked her with angel because after the soul thing AND SHE SENT HIM TO HELL... there wasnt anything else there...and dont get me started on riley...

Oooh....riley the ordinary boy who suddenly gets thrown into a world where monsters are? and he has to fight along side people who also fight them? ...and he gets the girl...for a while, until SPIKE tells him that she'll always be attracted to the 'dark' ones....


Hmmm.....coincidence??? lol

i was Spuffy as soon as he became a main character...he had the witt (wich jack has) and the weird attractiveness (that jack also has) where your not exactly sure WHY you like him....

and then suddenly BOOM your there falling at his feet lmao!


this will/davy analogy is making more sense now that i've seen the whole 'selfish side of the things that you explained!!!!!

im convinced that somewhere will is going to be a little bad...and come off worse for it
(like riley having vampired bite him, perhaps? coz he was selfish for keeping buffy when she didnt really 'love' him????????)

Originally posted by LovelyOne
so are you thanx

Originally posted by T.Maria
LovelyOne your not sad at all!
And if someone thinks you are then it makes two of us anyway lol


The Spuffy thing relates deffinately, its clear as day! and i for one never liked her with angel because after the soul thing AND SHE SENT HIM TO HELL... there wasnt anything else there...and dont get me started on riley...

Oooh....riley the ordinary boy who suddenly gets thrown into a world where monsters are? and he has to fight along side people who also fight them? ...and he gets the girl...for a while, until SPIKE tells him that she'll always be attracted to the 'dark' ones....


Hmmm.....coincidence??? lol

i was Spuffy as soon as he became a main character...he had the witt (wich jack has) and the weird attractiveness (that jack also has) where your not exactly sure WHY you like him....

and then suddenly BOOM your there falling at his feet lmao!


this will/davy analogy is making more sense now that i've seen the whole 'selfish side of the things that you explained!!!!!

im convinced that somewhere will is going to be a little bad...and come off worse for it
(like riley having vampired bite him, perhaps? coz he was selfish for keeping buffy when she didnt really 'love' him????????)

OMG I agree with you so much!!..I agree I dont think Will is going to become too bad...or he might..I dont know..

Also I'm just gonna say...I found it very VERY strange how straight away Disney put on their site "Elizabeth Turner" in the cast list....why do that so early? Give away the ending much?..why do that??

Also why did the director from the very beginning SAY there was going to be a wedding?? This just totally gives away the ending..again

Do you think they are doing this to squash peoples hopes early about a Jack/Liz thing??..or do you think they are trying to trick us??

Are they actually shooting fake scenes to keep the spoilers off their trail??..

Or is the wedding scene in fact NOT the ending????

The people on KTTC actually didnt see that kiss coming in DMC..even with all their spoilers...I think Disney know what they are doing this time to keep the spoilers off their trail

i agree. disney isnt stupid.

did they REALLY put elizabeth turner? thats just stupid. is it still up like that???

will might marry her and then die... leaving her free as a bird...

i am betting big on disney keeping their ending a secret...

i wont even be upset if liz and will end up togehter if they throw in a steamy sex scene with jack... LOL

was this in the credits for DMC or COTBP??? lol


Hmmmmm.....well disney know what they're doing, thats for sure...but if they go through with w/e then the MAJORITY will leave the cinema with a bad taste in their mouths....

its like handing them a waffle and then taking it away!

also BTVS writers came under alot of backfire when buffy ended up BACK with angel in Season 3 ...coz alot of people said her character needed to grow because there was nothing more with angel that could possibly happen.

Now LovelyOne this sounds Soooooo weird but....is there a similarity between TiaDalma and The First Slayer??

both mystical...both talk of LOVE being the KEY...you need to LOVE and FORGIVE....

maybe im just rambling lmao!

EXACTLY!!! I seriously think that they are gonna throw everyone off the scent..and it seems to be working..look how stubborn those people on KTTC are...and there aren't really alot of people on there..its like a 1000 or so..its what they want vs like millions of people who are rooting for Jack/Liz..so Disney can afford to deceive that small 1000

right now the argument is "Jack isn't capable of loving her" and "coincidently" I have a feeling THIS is going to be a BIG theme in movie 3..people are overlooking the fact that JACK SPARROW IS CHANGING AS MAN..he was about to give up his PEARL for Elizabeth..the very thing he traded his own SOUL for. You try to say that to these people on that forum..and they realize it completly contradicts what they believe to be "fact" and they just IGNORE IT and try to shoot you down..which is probably working in Disney's favor cuz its throwing US of the scent too.. and it makes us back down with our theories that might ring true..

These people actually expect him to leave at the end on the pearl with a whore under each arm..after he basically decided to let it go for Liz in movie 2????? BULL!!!


Jack is not gonna move backwards...only forwards..Just watch..Its all gonna be about the Immortality thing I bet! Jack Sparrow giving up that for a woman?? WOW what a GUY!!!..thats what the effect is gonna be IMO if that happened People would be leaving the theater completley in love with Jack sparrow who is THE MONEY OF THE MOVIE

him leaving, remaining him own shallow self..?? Haven't we already BEEN there DONE that?

stubborn mules...honestly!

But can they sense Will changing?
Honestly, the must see that if he does, it wont be for the better?

As i have said before;

elizabeth fell inlove with will for who he WAS ... not who he will become.Those will be two totally separate people.

Elizabeth has FALLEN inlove with Jack for what she knows he really is..and she accepts it.

EXACTLY..they Just think Will is gonna learn how to love Liz more after this..HOW is becoming Like davy J..gonna HELP him win Liz back?? what kind of crap storyline is that?? he's already "decent enough" for her!....He is going to turn BAD...

So will is gonna go in a pointless learning circle in movie 3?? YEAH RIGHT

Its interesting how people are all thinking Jack cant stick with someone..they are so set in their ways..and this is what the characters in AWE are going to be like..they will be bringing it up too on screen..Its Wills main argument!..and Liz probably thinks it too

so why has this "jack isn't capable of loving someone" theme suddenly popped up in movie 3...

when movie 2 actually raised the question "could he?"

answer...the audience are gonna see Jack do something amazing for the person he loves....IMO

They are also all going to be looking at Tia thinking..Look he didn't stick with her!! He's not "capable of loving someone for a long time WAAAAA!!!."

LOL so what..Just because I didn't fall in love with a guy once...that means I'm not ever capable of LOVING ANOTHER MAN ON A LONG TERM BASIS?


LOL its so STUPID what some of these people believe!! LMAO

In life..people find the wrong ones for them..and then they find the right ones..and I think Liz is going to be the RIGHT one..he just needs to change for her in the right way so that she has a reson for her lust to turn into LOVE

I just hope I am right lmao!!

because I cant understand why the writers would write in Lust on Liz's behalf..and then it fizzles out

And then on Jack's behalf they write in "possibly loving Liz" and then have it fizzling out..What the hell? was the point in doing that if you are just gonna "explain it away"

I really dont understand why they would add in Will mirroring Davy J..just so Will can go on a needless learning circle in move 3..nope sorry I'm not buying it.

Why does he need to suddenly learn by movie 3 how to love Liz "properly" When he was "doing just fine" in the first place..that would be pointless!..

The answer is: Liz is NOT the right woman for him so he is going to LEARN this by movie 3.I even felt that vibe in movie 1 that they were a bad match..its MORE than obvious by movie 2...



IMO anyway

very very true!

I think alot of people are starting to think that Jack is like his character in POTC1 and hes NOT.
Not with his intentions anyway.

He knows what he wants in 1, he is not too sure in 2...or he is sure but doesnt know how to 'woo said strumpet' ....

and 3 will determine whether he gets it ...

alot of people are also saying it is elizabeths choice. what if it isnt?
it doesnt have to be, jack or will could make her decision for her...


but WHO was she most pleased to see when he returned in 2????

She didnt LOOK UP to will whilst the light was shining on him when he returned from the dutchman....she didnt grab his leg, as if he could protect her from what was happening....and she certainly did NOT kiss him passionately....IMO that kiss she gave will was a 'test', almost saying that;

"If this feels like it used to feel then i know i do not have feelings for jack..."

I agree with you!! Its funny how she sort of looked at Jack once she kissed him there..as if to also say " HA! look how perfect we are!".. her compass pointed at Jack just before that and she was in big denial about it

You know what.. I think Jack's character from the very beginning wanted love...but was afraid to embrace it..when you consider that the dog resembles Jack in both movies...the dog nearly accepted it from one person (taking the bone)..but then it got scared and ran off(not quite ready for it yet)...When the dog is around alot of people..he will be defiant..and pretend he does not want love..but when its was one on one there was a little hint of possibility...

by movie 2..well the dog goes on a bit of a learning journey and it basically mimicked what Jack went through in the movie..it dropped its keys (material possessions) and went back to fight for his loved ones. Then after the credits...we see him with the bone in his mouth sitting upon a huge thrown.like a king with his prize..

I think the people on Keeptothecode are mostly children - ages 11 to 16 ??? Who don't really know what's going on....I mean it is a Disney message board....But by the way...just so ya'll know...I am a little older than most of you....I have a 7 year old son...and by the way...I asked him one day who did he think Liz should pick Jack or Will and he said...Jack cause he's better at being a Pirate and Liz likes Pirates...wow...he was also the one who first pointed out to me that Jack hits Will over the head with a paddle in DMC cuz Will hit Jack in POTC 1 - he thinks Jack is the greatest Pirate ever...and he thinks jack should marry Liz...isn't that sweet...oh well....So there you go...an opinion of a young fan...so Disney....even some of the children want Liz to pick Jack..because he's a Pirate and this is Pirates of the Caribbean, not Blacksmiths of Port Royal right, katelovespirates???LOL

hahaha YAYAYAYY!!! that makes me so happy.

great convo going on here guys. this is deep.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
I think the people on Keeptothecode are mostly children - ages 11 to 16 ??? Who don't really know what's going on....I mean it is a Disney message board....But by the way...just so ya'll know...I am a little older than most of you....I have a 7 year old son...and by the way...I asked him one day who did he think Liz should pick Jack or Will and he said...Jack cause he's better at being a Pirate and Liz likes Pirates...wow...he was also the one who first pointed out to me that Jack hits Will over the head with a paddle in DMC cuz Will hit Jack in POTC 1 - he thinks Jack is the greatest Pirate ever...and he thinks jack should marry Liz...isn't that sweet...oh well....So there you go...an opinion of a young fan...so Disney....even some of the children want Liz to pick Jack..because he's a Pirate and this is Pirates of the Caribbean, not Blacksmiths of Port Royal right, katelovespirates???LOL

OMFG you make me laugh!!..seriously you ROCK..and I had no idea of your age..thats so cute

you should post that on the forum..stid S up a lil bit

these people are so young that they are buying eveything that is being shoved under their noses by disney..then people going to that site with the most sensible theories get squashed down so that the real ending DOESNT leak out..DIiney know what they are doing..

Originally posted by LovelyOne
OMFG you make me laugh!!..seriously you ROCK..and I had no idea of your age..thats so cute

you should post that on the forum..stid S up a lil bit

these people are so young that they are buying eveything that is being shoved under their noses by disney..then people going to that site with the most sensible theories get squashed down so that the real ending DOESNT leak out..Disney know what they are doing..

good comment, lovelyone!


this is the thing thats really making me wonder...


Disney pride theirselves on happy endings right?? They kinda live by the rules...which is what the people at keeptothecode are kinda trying to do.... but my point is this;


didn't disney break away from their cliche JUST by making a PIRATE movie?!!
they went against everything they usually do....yes, we had the romance of will/Elizabeth... but they've done something we could never have thought them do....they gave us sexual chemistry between two characters....


IF disney wanted a will/Elizabeth ending FROM THE START then he movie would have been straight-laced and the characters would not have developed....


Therefore, this movie goes against EVERYTHING that disney has spoon-fed its audience for years...


and this is why I believe in Jack and Elizabeth ....


because they have broke the mould.....and it works so well


PS: LoveThemTigers....Your son is very talented lol

lol yeah. that is so cute!

HANG ON! that completely contradicts itself..its not pointing at Jack because she wants SEX from him..its pointing to him because she wants him as a MAN in her life!

He's saying she wants sex from him but thats NOT the reason why the compass is pointing there!..she wants sex AND she wants the man..as in a relationship..So its not a deal where she's thinking..I want sex from Jack..but what I really want is Will...its suggesting..I want sex from Jack and the man I REALLY WANT JACK..

Her character is not interested in marriage..she only wants sex..thats the only reason why she was looking forward to the "feast"..she suddenly comes across Jack and she's gagging for sex...so yes he's tempting in that respect..but thats NOT why the compass is pointing drawn to him...she's actually beggining to WANT him as a man in her life instead of William...thats what she is learning..and thats why she is in so much bloody denail/confusion/fear

because at the SAME time..what she wants most in the world is to SAVE Will...not be with Will...not have Sex with will..but SAVE him


so dont you think that explains WHY she chooses to save Will at the end when its a situation where he might die?

Its a situation where your family..(thats all Will means to her IMO by the end of this movie)..and of course if your family was about to die..and you had to take drastic measures..its possibly that you would give up the one person you SELFISHLY want the most in your life in order to save your family..

I dont think she realizes at this point how much Jack actually loves her in return..it only hits her later..once she has lost him and she has had time to think.."oh no he was probably going to stay anyway.he put up no fight when I did that to him..oh my god he came back for me..oh my god he wasnt angry when I did that to him"

apparently when Gibbs says "its that honest streak in him he would have stayed" Liz cried a fresh batch of tears and she squirms uncomfortably in her seat..

IMO to her at the time when she did..it was "I can give up something that I selfishly want most to save my family becuase this man doesnt really love me in return..its not a 2 way thing so its not heading anywhere in the future"..it explains why she found it so hard to leave Jack..and how much she tried not to kiss him again..because she wants him..but I duno if she realizes how much he wants her in return..and NOT just fr sex..

This is suppose to be a love story from Lizzy's point of view...If she commands a pirate crew in 3 and there is animosity between her and Jack because of the end of 2 then I hate to say this, but the freedom she has taken from Jack (aka Waffle) will be to be a pirate herself with her own crew. Bloody Will will be with his deep sea Dad and if Gov Swann is really dead then she won't wind up with either.

Its not Just on liz's point of view..Jack wants this woman..and is probably in love with her.

Liz didnt take away Jack's freedom..she gave him it...once he accepted that he wanted to be tied down to her (goes back and blows up the ktaken)..it basically freed him as a man..I wouldnt call the action of facing up to the thing he fears most..blowing it up..then jumping right into it without a care in the world the actions of a man who lacks freedom to do what he wants..

and Liz betrayed him yes..but afterward?? She wants ths man back in her life for good.

and Liz/Jack didnt end hating one another..what movie were you watching?

Jack ended it accepting he wants this woman in his life..did you not see how turned on he was that she just did that to him?

and Liz ended it realizing she wants this man back in her life(although I feel there may still be some denial)..

When she chained him up it wasnt through ANGER..did you not see how hard she was finding it to leave him there? She even tried not to kiss him again..she's denying herself what she wants most in this world according to the compass..because at the same time what she wants most in this world is to SAVE WILLIAM (compass also points to the chest)

So by movie 3..I'm guessing Liz will still be in some denial over what she feels for jack..and Jack may even be in that denial too when it comes toer..I cant see him jumping right into loving her until she is in fact ready to face it herself..but what story starts and ends the same??..that denial cant stay there forever..

i am not arguing with you, cause i agree with everything you are saying....

but...

i think part of the reason i love the jack/liz relationship and find it so intriguing and delightful to watch is:

the fact that it's ambiguous.

the fact that you just dont know what they're going to do next-- whether they will kill each other or start making out. ya know?

and i think thats part of their attraction to each other, as well. the fact that they dont quite know where the other one stands...

you have to admit, its pretty boring when you KNOW the person you are with is obsessed with you and will never leave you (cough cough will and liz) and there is no excitement any more...

and with Liz and Jack-- there is still that mystery of not knowing if the other one really feels strongly, or whether they are just flirting... (even though i think WE know... lol)

so if it all came out, would it be as exciting? would the attraction be the same if they both confessed everything to each other?

oh yes I agree with you!!!..but I just get the feeling if they are to ever work in the future as a couple...by the end of movie 3 both character will have to realize that they really dont ever want to hurt the other by betraying them etc,..its the only way a pirate/pirate relationship could ever work in my opinion.

I want to see them not knowing what the hell to do in movie 3 when they are around eachother after that little episode on the pearl(realisation of deeper feelings) ..its so much more interesting..but by the end..if they are meant to be with one another and make it work..its going to have to amout to something where they come to a conclusion of how to be together..

I dont think that by th end of movie 2..that they are sure of being together..it basicaly just hints that its headding that way IMO We are going to see a lot more of this where they learn how to be..alot more uneay moments..and close moments ..they slowly are realizing that they work together (liz a WHOLE bunch slower than Jack lmao)

right... right... i guess it just goes back to the "dawsons creek" comment someone made LOL... that there will never be a scene where Jack is like "Oh my darling i cant live without you, marry me my love..." hahahaha.... it would be much more piraty and probably funny...

HAHAHAHA oh gee.... lol.... yeah the betrayal has to stop. its getting out of hand. but apparently Jack isn't going to be the first one to quit the game...

yes I agree its going to be a rocky ride the fact that movie 3 apparently starts where we see Jack betrays Liz again (although he thinks he's gonna see her again)..and Liz appears to "hate him" again..just gives me LOTS more hope..because a good story starts one way and ends another..and i get the feeling movie 3 is gonna be a nother learning journey for these two..which will probably end where they emotionally ended in movie 2..Jack/Liz..Will/Dad" Ted said movie 2 is all the closure you need for the love triangle" They physically end one way and mentally end another..and Ted hints that its the mental ending that is the most significant

awe. i dont want liz to ever hate Jack. why is she so dumb. why cant she take friendly banter and the fact that men's methods of flirting often involve little wars? LOL...

i'm just concerned that if they make them hate each other at the beginning or whatever, the only resolution we will get between them will be friendship....

It's two fairly smart people (Liz and Jack) against an idiot (Will). That's a strong term, but he doesn't think things through and he thinks he's always right. He has Jack and Liz's intelligence to a point (no one really matches Jack for intelligence in these) but not the cleverness portion, and even though things don't usually work out for her, Liz is a very clever girl. She needs to be challenged mentally, and Will doesn't do that for her. Think what she gets out of that relationship. Nothing. She doesn't get passion because Will's collar is too tight. She doesn't get friendship because the only time they ever spend together is when they're both in some kind of trouble or he's teaching her how to sword fight (that's another good conversation). She doesn't get any witty dialogue, nothing. Plus, she didn't know what all Will did or didn't do when he "saved" her in the first movie. She wasn't there to see it was Jack who took full charge and Will just followed him around and criticized him the whole time. The second movie shows her he isn't really the pirate she thought he was.

I dont think its gonna be hate..probably denial on both sides..its like if I had one totally amazing close moment with someone that I thought I didnt like all that much..and then I had to face them again..I wouldnt know how to behave..do I hate them? do I lke them?..do i LOVE them?

and on Jacks behalf its more do i love them or just lust after them?..do I really want the "trouble" of this woman in my life or do I want to be a "free spirit"?..and again the way movie 2 ended emotionally..no its not lust Jack wants this woman in his life ......and with Liz..its more than just hating or liking..much more and she wants him back in her life more than anything

again the movie 2 love triangle closure thing Ted talks about..If there was no movie 3..I would clearly say that by the end of movie 2..Jack wants Elizabeth in his life and loves her. Jack wants her in his life more than anything after worrying about wanting her in his life or not..and Elizabeth thought she didnt want him but in fact does..and on a larger level than just sex or friendship..and she wants him back in her life..after worrying about being with him and how she actualy feels towards him etc

I dont think i'm explaining myself too well here lol

You are explaining it fine. I mean, the guy is tied to his ship that a big monster is going to take down in a matter of minutes and what does he care about? He's grinning like a stoned baby because Liz kissed him! He looks utterly dazed and overwhelmed, and that's why I think this is the part where he consciously decides he's in love. His brain could have come up with any excuse in the book to go back to the Pearl and save the crew, but he can't fool himself as to why he's smiling there. He should be screaming and kicking her shins, not savoring the moment.

Also the reason Jack smiles is bc he just made liz fall in love with him and hes like "SCORE!"

She did exactly as he said she would do. And i think he smlies bc he is even amazed at himself that he let her kiss him ad then chain him up to face the kraken. hes also amazed at himself that he could actually love and risk his life over a woman

LOLLLLL great post Willofthewisp. LOL. both of you are on it.

thats so great. stoned baby.

meanwhile liz is having like a little emotional breakdown. didnt even look that distraught when her wedding got wrecked.

actually its a love square... dont forget norri, even though he doesnt have much of a shot anymore. but if we're still including Will, i say we include norri. LOL

but norri doesnt really care much anymore about elizabeth hes too preocupied to catch jack sparrow and all the pirates who supposedly ruin his life.

Thanks Willofthewisp and I agree with you so much about why Jack is smiling there

you kow what..I honestly dont see that last scene as Elizabeth giving into the temptation of acting like a pirate..because that is something she actually does quite often..and she seems pretty fine with it..I mean betraying people here in order to save herself..

when you look at the curiosity scene again..Jack says "you want to know what its like..to act on selfish impulse..one day you wont be able to resist, you will come over to MY side..I know it"

And Jack knows that she has already acted on selfish impulse in the past..because she did it to him lmao. So i think he's more concerned about her actually tasting HIM..and one day she will and she will love it..

That last scene was not about her giving into being a pirate it was about her giving into the temptation of tasting what Jack was like..the betrayal is old hat when it comes to Liz..but this time..she's gonna see what Jack actually tastes like..and Jack actually sees that she LIKES IT(the whole staring back at his lips..almost tasting him again)..so the "pirate" line is not actually him saying "see I knew you were a pirate..and MY little pirate" because he already knew that about her. Its more like he's saying "ha! I knew you wanted to taste me and that you would LOVE IT..you are MY little pirate"

and as for the act on selfish impulse when it comes to tasing Jack??? I would say that was a pretty selfish thing to do..by tasting Jack before betraying him..

whatever. he's still hotter than will. LOL

well...um only when norri is a pirate i guess but when he wears those damn wigs..um no

she never had to kiss him to do that..lol she did have a sword on her..she wasnt bothered about betraying him..she wasn't worried about betraying him to save herself(at this point because its not in her nature)..she was worried about actually tasting Jack or not before doing it..and if she would like it or not before doing it..throughout the whole movie she was fighting that temptation and now she has the chance to do it and if she likes it..then OH WELL..he's not going to be there anymore ..cuz in her eyes "Jack has to die or I die" Its just the way she is..so even if she likes it..she still can leave him there..

Its only after that she realises she actually betrayed a man she has very HUGE feelings for and that kiss is what made her realise it..It takes her a while to realize that the man means alot to her..at the time..she was taken aback by how much she loved that kiss..but it wasnt enough to make her stay(because she still left) she didnt exactly have time t realize how much she loves him at that moment..its only afterwards that she realizes that she has big feelings for him..once she has had the time to think everything over..all the times on the pearl with her and Jack..all the times he has saved her..she probably realizes that Jack would have in fact stayed..because HELLO he didnt exactly fight and shout to anyone on the long boat once she chained him up..heck he could have moved his arm away but he waited for her to clamp it shut.

^^exactly lizs problem is that shes having the heart vs brain problem like Ive said in many posts

but putting the heart vs brain theory aside for a moment---
The kiss i think was a way to do not only to distract jack thats another story but to taste and see if what shes feeling is real. If it was just a lust thing or love.

Im pretty sure after he rescued her from the kraken and came back for her her heart skipped a lil and after he just said "abandon ship..shes only a ship mate.." this made liz realize that he dont care anymore about material things and that he cares about her now bc nothing else matters. this impacted liz and at this point she wasnt sure if her feelings towards jack was real and so i believe she wanted a test-a taste just a kiss just to see what its like. she wanted to test her feelings.

is only then that the real test was after the kiss after the kraken swallowed jack that she started to feel guilty and wanted to be with the man. When she couldnt get jack out of her mind she certainly couldnt get jack out of her heart. so this is when she realize "this is the real deal..im in love with jack."

Agreed^^

and then of course in the hut... she remembers the way she felt when she kissed him before she left him..everything comes and smacks her in the face..EVERY little moment between her and JAck now means so much more to her becaus she decided to taste him before betraying him..and DAMN she liked it..

its not the betrayal she cares about..its the fact she's now lost a man that she is totally smitten with..she realised it all TOO LATE

He's not pleasently surprised that she actually betrayed him..cuz shes basically done it to him before..but last time she didnt go as far as to kiss him to get what she wanted..she did flirt but that was it..he smiles because he knows she could have done it any other way but she gave into the temptation of kissing him THIS time..and he just watches to see her reaction to the kiss..thats why he's so silent..he wants to see if she liked it..and yes we see that she does..and its only then that he smiles with satisfaction and says "pirate"..and then liz darn well KNOWS jack is all happy because he was right about her loving the taste of him..and she's all like "noo!" and runs off..and Jack actually loos as if he is about to burst put laughing at the denial on her face..

^^ yes exactly it kind of backfired a lil. She thought just one kiss just one tastes and my temptation would be gone. But she just wanted so much after that but not exactly physically emotionally.

this is where she feels bad. not only she HAS to marry Will and pretend like everything is back to normal but she lost the one true person who would/could actually make her happy and make her be herself.

Originally posted by Chiki Mina


this is where she feels bad. not only she HAS to marry Will and pretend like everything is back to normal but she lost the one true person who would/could actually make her happy and make her be herself.


so true chiki mina!

Jack makes her feel herself..makes her feel free.

the corset in 1 represents that for me too, because he FREES her from her imprisonment of being one type of person, when truly wanting to be someone different

i stick by my guns when i say that what ted elliot has quoted it CRYPTIC. AND WHY is it cryptic?!?!?

BECAUSE IF HE ANSWERED THE QUESTION PROPERLY HE WOULD GIVE EVERYTHING AWAY!!

Everything they say about jack/liz makes no sense and it contradicts the next thing that they say..and this is for a valid reason, in my opinion!

..and i just hope to god i am right!

I agree..but I don't think she is thinking of Will at all here..she's not feeling bad about using a kiss before betraying Jack because it was to lock him up..

She didn't show any guilt about being slightly unfaithful to Will during her last little betrayal with Jack..she doesn't care about the means she goes to to betray people..Last time she got drunk with Jack, flirted with him in order to betray him and she knows this.. but she was actually so drunk I think she doesn't know if she went further or not..

and when Jack says to her before he leaves in movie 1 - "Elizabeth, it would have never worked between us darling" Ted and terry start to crack up in the commentary they say

"how far was she willing to go on that island..and how far DID she actually go? because there is this whole element of "SHUT UP JACK!" on her face"

lol him saying that brought it all crashing back to her we all know that she didn't go very far but Liz obviously isn't so sure..because she was pretty drunk..I love the look on her face there its so hilarious..

So she has this whole thing on her conscience of being so drunk on an island with Jack and knowing she did go quite far to betray him and also not knowing how far she actually DID go..yet does she show any care towards Will when he comes back into her life in movie 1?..no because she doesn't care about what measures she might have gone to to betray Jack..so IMO in movie 2..she's not thinking about Will and how she's just betrayed his trust by kissing jack to ock him up..because she has already done similar things before when betraying Jack and she doesn't seem to care all that much..in movie 1 when she sees Will again and when we see will/liz again in movie 2

^^lets pray to that!!!

and u are so right about the corset thing. WOOOW GOOD POINT!!

i think i see this now!!
the corset like t maria said is like society/prison/will its too much for her and she couldnt breath

jack came along and rescued her and freed her!!

Originally posted by T.Maria
so true chiki mina!

Jack makes her feel herself..makes her feel free.

the corset in 1 represents that for me too, because he FREES her from her imprisonment of being one type of person, when truly wanting to be someone different

i stick by my guns when i say that what ted elliot has quoted it CRYPTIC. AND WHY is it cryptic?!?!?

BECAUSE IF HE ANSWERED THE QUESTION PROPERLY HE WOULD GIVE EVERYTHING AWAY!!

Everything they say about jack/liz makes no sense and it contradicts the next thing that they say..and this is for a valid reason, in my opinion!

..and i just hope to god i am right!

OMG thats so true..what did they say that was cryptic when it came to the corset thingy?

I totally agree with you there and have thought this many times..the first moment Jack touches liz he frees her..and she can then do what she wants..we suddenly see her become her true fiesty self once she has been freed by Jack in movie 1..

he lets her BREATHE again by cutting that bloody corset off her..