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Cin Drallig fights Darth Maul.

The arena is the inside of the Jedi Temple.
Basicly inside its wide hallways and stuff.

The fight is using both the Force and Lightsaber skills.

Who wins?

Opinions?

Hmmm, this is a tough one, I don't know how good Cin Drallig is, but he's a Lightsaber Teacher, and knows most forms, Master of Niman. Maul will probably win this one after a Long fight, and several Injuries, as once again, I know little of this dude

I think Cin would be suprised by the double-bladed-sabre..
This gives Maul an advantage and I think he would win.

Maul wins! Here's how I rate him:

Yoda
Sidious/Mace
Sidious/Mace
Anakin
Dooku
Obi-Wan
Maul
Cin Drallig/Qui-Gon Jinn/Depa Billaba
Cin Drallig/Qui-Gon Jinn/Depa Billaba
etc...

Drallig is good, but Maul is better. His skill with the double-bladed lightsaber makes him formidable.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Maul wins! Here's how I rate him:

Yoda
Sidious/Mace
Sidious/Mace
Anakin
Dooku
Obi-Wan
Maul
Cin Drallig/Qui-Gon Jinn/Depa Billaba (WTF?)
Cin Drallig/Qui-Gon Jinn/Depa Billaba (WTF?)
etc...

Depa is better than Qui-Gon. And she's better than Maul, probably better than Obi-Wan, too.

Why? Because she knows Vaapad? She's relatively unknown, doubtful she is more powerful than them

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Why? Because she knows Vaapad? She's relatively unknown, doubtful she is more powerful than them

Go read Shatterpoint. Depa almost took Mace.

Thats cool guys...but who wins vs Cin and Maul?

But wasn't she using the Dark Side???

Maul used a Vapaad variant as well. I thnk he's greater than Depa. He took on Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan and beat them both quite comfortably.

For all we know of Cin, Anakin killed him with ease.

He uses Juyo, the main form of Vaapad, it is considerd INCOMPLETE for some reason, and I'd like to know why in my thread on EU forums =P

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
But wasn't she using the Dark Side???

Maul used a Vapaad variant as well. I don't thnk he's greater than Depa. He took on Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan and beat them both quite comfortably.

For all we know of Cin, Anakin killed him with ease.


I can tell no one here has played the Episode III game. -.-'

The Episdoe III is different from the movie. Anakin doesn't kill Cin with a saber throw.

All we know about Cin is he was trained by Yoda and was a legednary battlemaster at the temple. His skills rivaled most of the Council members and, according to Dooku, he could take out Grievous even before Grievous gets injured by Mace. So because he can take out Grievous, and I don't think that Maul could, I think Cin would take out Maul in a close duel. But it's hard to say.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Go read Shatterpoint. Depa almost took Mace.
That was when Mace was recovering from severe injuries and wasn't even trying to fight back. So that's really not so impressive that she almostkilled Mace.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
The Episdoe III is different from the movie. Anakin doesn't kill Cin with a saber throw.


True, but I think Drallig was still that good.
Consider he was the Temple Battlemaster and the premier lightsaber instructor. He was also known to have skills and abilities on par with some of those on the Jedi Council. Not bad.
Cin may have put up one hell of a fight against Anakin. And we know Darth Mual would before getting killed.
If you think about this, Drallig and Maul might be a bit more even than at first galnce.

Cin Drallig could not take Grievous, where the hell does it say this. Mace fought Grievous in a Lightsaber duel and it ended in a STALEMATE, unless he somehow is better than Mace, the 2nd most Powerful Jedi

Originally posted by darthsith19
All we know about Cin is he was trained by Yoda and was a legednary battlemaster at the temple. His skills rivaled most of the Council members and, according to Dooku, he could take out Grievous even before Grievous gets injured by Mace. So because he can take out Grievous, and I don't think that Maul could, I think Cin would take out Maul in a close duel. But it's hard to say.


Exactly. Damn, you put it better than I did...

Cin can probably only defeat Grievous because he knows Soresu (lighstaber instructor needs to know all forms). I don't see how Cin can defeat a Sith who defeated one of the strongest Jedi Masters and his skilled apprentice comfortably.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Cin Drallig could not take Grievous, where the hell does it say this. Mace fought Grievous in a Lightsaber duel and it ended in a STALEMATE, unless he somehow is better than Mace, the 2nd most Powerful Jedi


No, he's right. Its true. Its stated in Labyrith of Evil. (Canon)

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Cin Drallig could not take Grievous, where the hell does it say this. Mace fought Grievous in a Lightsaber duel and it ended in a STALEMATE, unless he somehow is better than Mace, the 2nd most Powerful Jedi
It days it in LOE, and Mace and Grievous did not stalemate Mace won, re-read the fight, Mace knocks Grievous off the hover vehicle that their fighting on.


And perhaps he could only take Maul cause he knows, say, Makashi. But I was the one who originally made the assumption of Cin only being able to beat Grievous due to Soresu, and when I specifically said it was only a maybe.

I see Cin taking this.

Originally posted by Adas
I see Cin taking this.

Me too, I think.
But there is still a margin of possibility left open.
Darth Maul was a Sith Lord after all.

So, I guess Cin Drallig wins this one then?

Guess so! Cin Drallig is the winner!!! *Ding Ding Ding*

Cin knows Soresu, Shii-Cho, Ataru, Shien, and Niman. He doesn't know Juyo and he doesn't know Makashi.

In this case Cin should use Soresu or Shien.
Niman (It's just a bad form)
Ataru (Might wear him down from Maul's quick strokes)
Shii-Cho (I don't think it'll do well against Juyo)


All we know abuot Cin is he's the battlemaster. That doesn't mean he can beat Maul.

Maul has killed Qui-Gon Jinn, who's probably in teh same level as Cin, probably even better.

I'm sorry, but I think Darth Maul wins.

Guess what, Maul lifts his shoulder before the 3 count. The battle continues!!!

That's the most bullshit I've ever heard. He knows forums 1-6 as he's the temple's battlemaster and therefor would have to be able to teach all forums except form 7, which Jedi don't use except Mace, Depa and Sora. So unless you can provide proof that he doesn't use Makashi shut it.

Soresu or Makashi. Shien Maul would have a better chance of overpowering using his own offensive form.

Correction: All we know about Cin is:
1. He was trained by Yoda, who is probably the strongest Jedi of his time. But then again, Maul was trained by Sidious, who is even slightly stronger than Yoda so their training is pretty even.
2. Cin is the battlemaster at the Council. Other battlemasters include Dooku and Kyle Katarn, who both could beat the shit outta Maul.
3. he was killed by Anakin/Vader. But Maul would be, too.
4. He could take Grievous when GG's in his prime, something I seriously doubt that Maul could do since Grievous takes out 4 Jedi with ease in LOE and I don't see Maul doing that with any amount of ease. We also know that GG in his prime > Obsession Asajj, who msot people put on par with Maul. And saying that Cin can only take out Grievous cause of Soresu is 100% speculation. it may be true but there is nothing saying that it is but speculation.

So now suddenly Qui-Gon can take out 4 Jedi with ease? Lol, I have provided proof that Cin is close to Mace (since Grievous is close to him and Cin > Grievous). From what LOE states and what heppens in LOE Cin seems to be as close to ROTS Mace as Qui-Gon is to TPM Mace and ROTS Mace > TPM Mace.

So before saying Maul wins just cause you like him take a look at the facts. FYI I like Maul betetr than I like Cin, though Cin'snickname, "The Troll", is quite badass. devil2

boxing

If he was capable of beating Grievous, who killed COUNTLESS numbers of Jedi, how did he lose so quickly to Anakin?

Originally posted by darthsith19
That's the most bullshit I've ever heard. He knows forums 1-6 as he's the temple's battlemaster and therefor would have to be able to teach all forums except form 7, which Jedi don't use except Mace, Depa and Sora. So unless you can provide proof that he doesn't use Makashi shut it.

Im sorry but doesnt it specifically state somewhere that Dooku is the only practicioner of Makashi? I could be wrong however. But there is a source saying that Makashi died out at the death of Count Dooku. And the Count was killed before Cin. So logically this would prove Cin doesnt know it. Ill try and find that quote. I dont remember where I read it...

Dooku wasn't the only one, but all it's Practioners were killed(mostly at Geonosis, Blaster Deflect =/= Makashi)

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
If he was capable of beating Grievous, who killed COUNTLESS numbers of Jedi, how did he lose so quickly to Anakin?

Because Anakin was much better then he was. Anakin would be close if not on par with Mace in terms of a sheer lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im sorry but doesnt it specifically state somewhere that Dooku is the only practicioner of Makashi? I could be wrong however. But there is a source saying that Makashi died out at the death of Count Dooku. And the Count was killed before Cin. So logically this would prove Cin doesnt know it. Ill try and find that quote. I dont remember where I read it...

I think dooku was just the only Makashi user of any note really, thats what they meant. Other people used it, but they sucked. So TRUE Makashi did die with Dooku.

^So Cin, if he did have knowledge of it, would not know it to the extent of it being useful in his fight against Maul.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Because Anakin was much better then he was. Anakin would be close if not on par with Mace in terms of a sheer lightsaber duel.


Anakin wasn't better than Grievous, Obi-Wan was sent because of Soresu, and his greater experience, if Anakin was the best for the Job they would have sent him. Hell, if Cin Drallig was capable of beating LOE Grievous, which Obi-Wan doubtfully could, why didn't they send him?

Anakin is below Mace, who is THE best Lightsaber fighter in the Order. If he was capable of beating Grievous, he would have DESTROYED Anakin

Originally posted by Rampant ox
^So Cin, if he did have knowledge of it, would not know it to the extent of it being useful in his fight against Maul.

Yea pretty much, it would be semi useful, but he was not a master of it. Lets just say Dooku's Makashi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over Cin's Makashi.



and Kreiger *sigh* how little you know...Its far to late for me to pwn you tonight, my pwning hours are between 1pm-10pm.

But seriously, Anakin is far better then Grievous. Anakin is in the same dueling league as Mace, Yoda, Dooku and Sidious.

Just like everyone said before me, his Makshi won't be good at all as Dooku's the only real master of it.




Well Maul's Juyo will certainly put Cin's Makashi at test. As for Soresu, it might work but I think Maul will penetrate it after a while.

Sry for double post!




That doesn't mean a thing. Yoda trained a hundred Jedi, but did they all end up good? No! And Sidious is not better than Yoda!!!!



So, Dooku and Kyle are >>>>> Cin. Just because he's a battlemaster doesn't mean he can take a Sith Lord. It just means he's proficient in 5 forms.



Didn't Cin get killed by Anakin with one hand??? I doubt Maul can get killed with one hand!




Because Grievous has see the paterns in his opponents moves. He's a droid, so he can process the thoughts and land his moves correctly. And Maul can take on Grievous.

BTW, Soresu is probably Cin's only hope. I doubt his Ataru is better than Qui-Gon's. And unless his Shien is like Anakin's, he won't do much better either.



Now, can Cin Drallig comfortably defeat Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi? Personally, I don't think so, but even so, it'll be a hard one for him.

I say Maul takes this.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Cin knows Soresu, Shii-Cho, Ataru, Shien, and Niman. He doesn't know Juyo and he doesn't know Makashi.

In this case Cin should use Soresu or Shien.
Niman (It's just a bad form)
Ataru (Might wear him down from Maul's quick strokes)
Shii-Cho (I don't think it'll do well against Juyo)


All we know abuot Cin is he's the battlemaster. That doesn't mean he can beat Maul.

Maul has killed Qui-Gon Jinn, who's probably in teh same level as Cin, probably even better.

I'm sorry, but I think Darth Maul wins.

We're just speculating that Qui-Gon is as good as Cin. Maybe in his prime, but not during the time when he fought Maul.

I don't think Qui-Gon was very far from his prime. Yoda and Dooku are old, yet they fight very well by using the Force. Qui-Gon I believe does the same, but he wasn't performing well due to Maul's quick strikes. He was considered to be one of the best Ataru users according to Mace.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
I don't think Qui-Gon was very far from his prime. Yoda and Dooku are old, yet they fight very well by using the Force. Qui-Gon I believe does the same, but he wasn't performing well due to Maul's quick strikes. He was considered to be one of the best Ataru users according to Mace.

Very true, he was tired out by Maul's quick strikes. Also because of the Ataru thing. I'm pretty sure he was well past his prime, and, as was stated, it was Maul's quick strikes that brought that to an end. Anyway, Cin Drallig was not an Ataru user, so I'm guessing he would use Soresou to block most of them, then, like Obi-Wan use Ataru or Shii-Cho on the offensive.

Great...a fight between two of the most boring characters in existence

Yeah, but how good is Cin's Soresu. I would say it's perhaps equal to AOTC Obi-Wan's Soresu.

Now even though he was being toyed by Dooku, Obi-Wan got tooled. I would say toying Dooku is equal to Maul.

Since Cin's Soresu=Obi-Wan's Soresu
Toying Dooku > Obi-Wan's Soresu
Toying Dooku= Maul
Maul > Obi-Wan's Soresu

Therefore, Maul is greater than Cin Drallig's Soresu.

Therfore, Maul > Cin Drallig if he uses Soresu.

Maul will overpower Cin's Shien.
Maul will beat Cin up if he uses Niman.

Therefore Cin has to use Ataru or Shii-Cho. Cin Drallig is 50 years old at his death. I would say by this time his prime strength would be deteriorating. Maul's Juyo would waste him.

Thus, Shii-Cho is left. It's a good form which tries to destroy the opponent's weapon or disarm them. I doubt Cin can achieve this with Maul.

Therfore, I would say Maul > Cin Drallig.

AOTC Obi-Wan may have been being toyed with by Dooku, but wouldn't he be exhausted after the battle in the Arena? I honestly find Dooku the better fighter than Maul. And after all, Cin Drallig was superior to AOTC Obi-Wan, who was probably superior to Maul. Even if Maul got over confident, Kenobi beat him, fair and square.

Versus posts tend to forget that alot of the fights in the film occur for the audience's enjoyment.

They are not straight fights fought in arenas, so using these examples, for example Maul and Obi-Wan in TPM, as basis for Maul being able to beat Kenobi isn't too clever of an idea. Obi-Wan grows rash and angry and falls over the edge because it makes the script that little bit more compelling, it tries to show Obi-Wan developing as a character, not who is stronger.

It is impossible to completly ignore these fight scenes as so much is of circumstance, rather than ability, but don't rely on them.

Yeah, but Jedi don't neccesarily feel the meaning of tiredness as we do. Dooku is better than Maul, but the way he was toying with Anakin and Obi-Wan, Maul should be able to fight against that. And I don't think AOTC Obi-Wan is greater than Maul, probably equal to. And like Exanda said, the fights are for the audience's enjoyment. If there wasn't the pit I honestly don't know what would have happened. If there wasn't the ledge, Obi-Wan would have died.

Anyway, I believe Maul wins this. He has massacred Black Sun thugs, Jedi Masters including Anoon Bondara, resisted Force Lightning and killed his victim, slew Qui-Gon even though Qui-Gon revitalized himself.

Darth Maul wins.

Maul.

This has been done before...

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im sorry but doesnt it specifically state somewhere that Dooku is the only practicioner of Makashi? I could be wrong however. But there is a source saying that Makashi died out at the death of Count Dooku. And the Count was killed before Cin. So logically this would prove Cin doesnt know it. Ill try and find that quote. I dont remember where I read it...
Well we know that's false because we have proof that Shaak Ti uses it and she died during the attack on the temple so.

Possibly, but I think that Shaak Ti was probably allright with Makashi.

yeah he was, just not as much better as Obi-Wan was.

Just so you understand, that was speculation, until I see a source I will not go by speculation.

Doubtful, Cin taught Obi-Wan and look how good he got and if Soresu started to fail Cin could always swicth forums in the middle of the battle to confuse Maul. But Makashi would probably work since it is the #1 saber dueling form.

He is. Talk to Lightsnake. But I am merely stating that we know more about Cin than you said we did.

All 6, cause there are 6 forums. And as I've already provided proof that Cin is close to Mace Dooku does not WTF pwn him. We all always just assume that while Cin's good he's nowhere near as good as people like Mace, Maul, Dooku ect but when we look at all we've got (whihc isn't very much) it says that he's not far behind Mace.


Didn't Dooku take on Anakin and Obi-Wan in ROTS using one hand and he was doing well? Just cause someone is using one hand doesn't mean anything, some people fight better with one hand than 2.

So Maul can take on 5 Jedi Masters all of a sudden and can pwn 4 Jedi Knights with ease? I doubt it.

EU GG certainly could and Cin > GG so I would say yes.

That's entirely speculation. Whichever form Cin uses the best he will use against Maul. I'm guessing he has mastered at least one of them, probably the one he used the msot when he was a Jedi Knight going on missions. We don't know which one that it, but his sword skills are said to be on par with most of the Council Members so he can't be a bad dueler.

Qui-Gon did when he got killed, Yoda was exhausted after he fought Dooku, so I would say they do.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Cin knows Soresu, Shii-Cho, Ataru, Shien, and Niman. He doesn't know Juyo and he doesn't know Makashi.

In this case Cin should use Soresu or Shien.
Niman (It's just a bad form)
Ataru (Might wear him down from Maul's quick strokes)
Shii-Cho (I don't think it'll do well against Juyo)


All we know abuot Cin is he's the battlemaster. That doesn't mean he can beat Maul.

Maul has killed Qui-Gon Jinn, who's probably in teh same level as Cin, probably even better.

I'm sorry, but I think Darth Maul wins.


Wrong. Cin Drallig knows both Juyo and Makashi.
He uses it in the game, which was developed personally off his character.
Anyway, since he is a Niman Master he would at the very least know Makashi anyway. Where did you ever get the idea he diden't?
starwars

Also, I think Cin was at least slightly better than Qui-Gon so that means that he and Maul might actaully be evenly matched.

Shaak Ti didn't use Makashi, all Jedi that used Makashi, and Niman that were at Geonosis died in the arena, Shaak Ti was there

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im sorry but doesnt it specifically state somewhere that Dooku is the only practicioner of Makashi? I could be wrong however. But there is a source saying that Makashi died out at the death of Count Dooku. And the Count was killed before Cin. So logically this would prove Cin doesnt know it. Ill try and find that quote. I dont remember where I read it...

No, you are wrong. A few other Jedi, like Shaak Ti, who arguably died after Dooku.
The other guy was right, since Cin was a Niman Master, he knows Makashi.

The game has crap in it. It says Anakin > Mace.

And Cin does not know Juyo. The only known users were

Mace, Depa, Sora, and Quinlan Vos (only a part of it)


Please give me proof that he uses Makashi.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Dooku wasn't the only one, but all it's Practioners were killed(mostly at Geonosis, Blaster Deflect =/= Makashi)

NO. no. no. no. no. no. no.no no.

NO.

Listen up, (And please spread this around)
Makashi is weak on blaster deflection, its true.
But the reason why Shaak Ti survived Geonosis, and Dooku survived earlier battles with Mandalorians is because both Jedi knew Shii-cho.
Confused? Let me explain...

K, this knowledge is somewhat obvious, but I've found out that most people who are serious Star Wars fans or those that study the Lightsaber/arts don't seem to know this...

When Jedi first start out in the Order they are Initiates, and the first art they learn with the lightsaber is Form I, Shii-Cho.
Form I is all about basic sword technique and blaster bolt deflection.
At this stage they learn to block attacks from remotes and retain the pre-arranged movements and stratedgies for bolt deflection through muscle-memory.
In this stage they usaully keep learning just this art, for about ten years or more. Then, as you know, they are chosen by a Knight or Master for training and they become a Padawan Learner.

When this happens they are normally taught one of the seven main arts.
Almost all of the seven main arts contain elements of either Shii-Cho or Soresu so when they go up against opponants they can utilize their current style to defeat either a blaster-weilding opponant or a lightsaber combatant.

Now, out of the seven main forms, only two specialize in lightsaber dueling and not blaster-bolt deflection: Ataru and Makashi.
When Jedi learn these arts, they utilize them in combat to defeat their opponants, but, if they are confronted with blaster-weilding opponants they do not get cut down while using their style of Ataru or Makashi.

(K, here's the important fact to memorize)

Instead of using Ataru or Makashi, they utilize the Shii-Cho skills they learned to hone for ten years.
These skills are not dampened at all either, because they are routinely practised by Jedi whilst not in combat.
So, when facing blaster-weilding enemies, the Makashi user or Ataru user will not continue to use that form.
They will switch automatically to Form I Schii-Cho, and employ its defensive tachniques until the opponant is defeated.

Thats right, thats why Dooku and Shaak Ti survived all those fire-fights.
It wasent because they were exeptional Jedi alone( as it has been said.)
No, it was because they used Form I whenever defense against blasters was needed. Thats what these types of lightsaber practitioners do.

Now, if you asking yourself, how does this guy know what he's talking about? where's his proof for this?

I think you'll know what im saying is very much true. If you want to learn for yourself, go read up on the lightsaber forms again.
It'll all make sense to you.

As a last note, I know this stuff because I've wasted years of my life studying it inside and out and playing every game containing the subject.

Sounds sad but oh well. Now that I've told you what desperatly needs to be heard, go tell others and spread it around.
Shed some light on this subject.

Thanks.

You spent years of your life on the topic and that was the best you came up with?

Originally posted by Adas
You spent years of your life on the topic and that was the best you came up with?

You need me to say somthing else?

BtW, just take the info and use it, thats why I put it there.bash

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
You need me to say somthing else?

Yes.

Originally posted by Adas
Yes.


Lol, alright. What else to you need me to say?
What other info do you require?

'No, it was because they used Form I whenever defense against blasters was needed. Thats what these types of lightsaber practitioners do.'

Could you expand on this? It would be greatly appreciated .I always believed that they employed defencive aspects (from Soresu or Shii-Cho) but still used their form (by this I mean stance etc. - or is it possible that it is the actual stance and way one holds there saber that makes, especially Soresu effective at blocking blaster bolts?).

Also (in general, not in regard to what I quoted) would jedi reflexes not have a big effect?

Sure. Well they would use Soresu if they knew it. But some diden't.
And yes, it is the actaul stance that makes it affective.
Soresu practitioners are able to block bolts(many) if need be, by keeping the blade in close to their body while in defense, they utilise sweeping strokes mostly generated by the wrist for control.
Thats a simple explaination at any rate.
Anyway, a Jedi that knows Ataru or Makashi won't use that form while in confrontation with a blaster-weilding opponant, unless they can't fire at them.
Rather, they'll shift back to Form I and utilise it until they can defeat the opponant.
And yes, the reflexes have a big effect as well.
Seeing as how a Jedi uses atomatic precognition to actaully see the attack through the future at least one second before it hits.
This is part of the way Jedi deflect bolts.
The other way is that they use the Force to actaully "feel" where the attack is angling at and coming from.\

So, the reflexes and stance both couple together to form their basis for defenses.
Of course, other forms of reflex are also employed.

Would you like me to refer you to some good sites that could expand on this as well? ^_^

Nope, that seems about right, but perhaps you could for how Soresu is effective at deflecting blaster bolts, an official site if you can.

Also, is Ataru effective against saber wielders? The KotOR2 manual states it to be fair for one.

Yup. It is.
Just is bad on defense and Enviorment plays a big part in its execution.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Soresu

And here's another. It isen't "Official", but its facts are canon nonetheless.

http://lightsaberguide.darkjedibrotherhood.com/LightsaberGuide.pdf

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
No, you are wrong. A few other Jedi, like Shaak Ti, who arguably died after Dooku.
The other guy was right, since Cin was a Niman Master, he knows Makashi.


I disagree. Because Cin knows Niman doesnt mean he knows how to use Makashi. Niman is the diplomats form, and it uses small aspects of all the forms to create one (imo) mediocre form. Niman is NOT Makashi, in any way shape or form. And is there any proof that says Shaak Ti knows Makashi? Im not saying you are wrong but I was under the impression that the Count was the only practicioner.

Also you say that Dooku must know Shien as well, which is why he lived through Geonosis. Thats a load of bullsh*t. While Dooku was out in the open there were only jedi opposing him. Nobody with blasters were shooting at him (bar possibly Padme). He also had Jango standing there watching his back. As soon as the clones arrived Dooku fled to his secret hangar. So no, Dooku does not know Shien. If he did he would have stood a better chance against the raw power of Anakin in ROTS.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I disagree. Because Cin knows Niman doesnt mean he knows how to use Makashi. Niman is the diplomats form, and it uses small aspects of all the forms to create one (imo) mediocre form. Niman is NOT Makashi, in any way shape or form. And is there any proof that says Shaak Ti knows Makashi? Im not saying you are wrong but I was under the impression that the Count was the only practicioner.

Also you say that Dooku must know Shien as well, which is why he lived through Geonosis. Thats a load of bullsh*t. While Dooku was out in the open there were only jedi opposing him. Nobody with blasters were shooting at him (bar possibly Padme). He also had Jango standing there watching his back. As soon as the clones arrived Dooku fled to his secret hangar. So no, Dooku does not know Shien. If he did he would have stood a better chance against the raw power of Anakin in ROTS.

Niman gives you a Moderate Skill level in every form, possibly Master Level in a few, he knew Makashi, but was no Master of it. Niman isn't Mediocre, it takes the main things from each form, and turns it into a Balanced, no weakness, form. Shaak Ti doubtfully uses Makashi, all Makashi using Jedi died at the arena, but the Count definately wasn't the only Practioner, and during the Clone Wars several Jedi learned Makashi(I think) to fight the Dark Jedi, and even Dooku

Why does he need to know Shien? Who said this? Dooku didn't need Shien at all, he only knew Makashi and Ataru(I think, didn't he teach it to Qui-Gon?) as far as we know

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Niman gives you a Moderate Skill level in every form,

Incorrect. Niman is not a mixture of every form. It does not have ties to Form VII nor Form II.

" In practice, Form VI is a combination of Forms I, III, IV, and V."

-- Star Wars Insider, Issue 62.

As you can see it only takes from Shii-Cho, Soresu, Ataru, and Djem So.



Incorrect. Niman isn't a "balanced" form. It has weaknesses in that it's suited for diplomats, hence "diplomat's Form". It's assessed as that because it is "less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy, and negotiation." As you can see, that alone is a weakness in saber combat. It allows more focus on political aspects rather than actual combat. And full masters of other forms deem Niman to be "insufficiently demanding" as well.

So, do tell, how is that not a weakness, and how is it balanced? And again, Niman only takes from four forms.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Yeah, but Jedi don't neccesarily feel the meaning of tiredness as we do. Dooku is better than Maul, but the way he was toying with Anakin and Obi-Wan, Maul should be able to fight against that. And I don't think AOTC Obi-Wan is greater than Maul, probably equal to. And like Exanda said, the fights are for the audience's enjoyment. If there wasn't the pit I honestly don't know what would have happened. If there wasn't the ledge, Obi-Wan would have died.

Anyway, I believe Maul wins this. He has massacred Black Sun thugs, Jedi Masters including Anoon Bondara, resisted Force Lightning and killed his victim, slew Qui-Gon even though Qui-Gon revitalized himself.

Darth Maul wins.

I think they do. Dooku got really tired when Anakin started bashing his lightsaber against him, according to the ROTS Novelization. At first, it's true, Dooku was toying with them, but then he realized how much a threat they were, so decided to end the fight as quickly as possibly. AOTC Obi-Wan is, without a doubt, much better than TPM Kenobi. 10 extra years of experiance? That's very true, without the pit, Obi-Wan would have died.
Taking out the Black Sun is no small accomplishment, but his skills with the Force and his martial arts prowess helped him remove them. However, these things are far more effective against multiple opponents rather than a single opponent, such as, say that Anoon Bondara. He was, like Cin, a great lightsaber duelist, but who of the two was truly better? Qui-Gon was also powerful, but that "revitalization" counted for nothing when the lack of space restricted his use of Ataru.

Well Qui-Gon had the chance to jump to the other side of the hole and around the room if he was an Ataru user. But Maul's Juyo just weared him down and he was too tired to perform such moves.

Maul has infiltrated Black Sun and killed their leader Alexi Garyn, was incredibly acrobatic and a master of Teras Kasi (martial arts), slew Anoon Bondara, killed the Nightsister Mighella , slew maverick Jedi Qui-Gon Jinn and defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Cin Drallig was the battlemaster of the Jedi order, skilled in several forms, was known as the Troll, said to be capable to kill Grievous (via through Soresu), and was slain by Anakin one-handed.

I think Maul seems to have a better track record. I don't see any proof why Drallig can beat Maul. Because like I said before ten times, I don't think Cin Drallig can beat Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Well Qui-Gon had the chance to jump to the other side of the hole and around the room if he was an Ataru user. But Maul's Juyo just weared him down and he was too tired to perform such moves.

Maul has infiltrated Black Sun and killed their leader Alexi Garyn, was incredibly acrobatic and a master of Teras Kasi (martial arts), slew Anoon Bondara, killed the Nightsister Mighella , slew maverick Jedi Qui-Gon Jinn and defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Cin Drallig was the battlemaster of the Jedi order, skilled in several forms, was known as the Troll, said to be capable to kill Grievous (via through Soresu), and was slain by Anakin one-handed.

I think Maul seems to have a better track record. I don't see any proof why Drallig can beat Maul. Because like I said before ten times, I don't think Cin Drallig can beat Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
The quick strikes from Maul's Juyo prevented him from having the chance to jump, along with tiring him out.

Very impressive. The Nightsister, however, was skilled in the dark side of the Force. However, she was not a Sith lord, which is like the type of person who can access the Dark Side's power to the highest degree (e.g. Dark Jedi cannot). As I stated before, Maul's martial arts prowess will probably not help him as much in a fight against a SINGLE enemy with a lightsaber as opposed to many/a single opponent without a lightsaber. True, he killed a Jedi Master and nearly beat his apprentice, but do you think he would have done was well with only one side of his lightsaber? Give Drallig a double sided saber and he could take them on.

I'm pretty sure that Grievous would be more than a match for Maul, though Maul would put up one hell of a fight. I'm sure that Cin put up a good fight before going down to Anakin. The Maul with the metallic legs didn't do so well against Obi-Wan, who fought hard to beat Anakin. That would show you who is the better of the two. Now, we're sure that Cin fought well against Anakin, so (it may be difficult to see the logic) Cin would probably be a better duelist than Maul.

Is there any proof that Maul can beat Cin? Is there any proof that he cannot beat the two of them?
(is it kind of confusing me switching from Cin to Drallig and stuff? Because if it is, then I'll stop. You can just tell me which one you'd rather me stick to)

Unfortunately we do not know that. We know Anakin beat Cin with one-hand, which I highly reckon Maul can stand against for a while.



Those are Infinities and are not established as canon, so we really can't use it.


Anyway, I am just going to say Darth Maul because he is quite an impressive duelist. But nevertheless the match would be kinda close.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Unfortunately we do not know that. We know Anakin beat Cin with one-hand, which I highly reckon Maul can stand against for a while.



Those are Infinities and are not established as canon, so we really can't use it.


Anyway, I am just going to say Darth Maul because he is quite an impressive duelist. But nevertheless the match would be kinda close.

Hold off against an angry Anakin? I highly doubt it. Not many could stand against him. Kenobi could barely, and he beat the mechanical Maul with some ease.

Is the Black Sun thing and Infinitiy? Because if it is, then both can be discounted.

Agreed. The Match would be close, but while you support Maul, I support Cin.g

Damn it, I typed out a response and then accidentally closed it so now I'm typing it back.

No, it MIGHT have been due to Soresu but we DO NOT KNOW.

Because you don't want to. EU grievous could beat those 2 without alot of trouble and Cin > Grievous. And lets just say for a minute that Cin can only take out Grievous because of Soresu. He said earlier that you thought Cin's Soresu was probably about as good as AOTC Obi-Wan's but that can't be true because AOTC Obi-Wan would get pwnd badly by EU Grievous. To beat EU Grievous with Soresu Cin's Soresu would have to be close to ROTS Obi-Wan's. And if his Soresu is almost as good as ROTS Obi-Wan's then he has I'd say about a 50/50 chance of beating Maul while using Soresu and we don't even know if Soresu is his best form!

No, we know that Anakin walked into the room, killed Whie (Padawan, 13-14 years old) instantly cause he caught him by surprise and Whie didn't know that Anakin was a bad guy, then he starts to fight Bene, after a second he grabs her neck with his mechanical hand, then, using his other hand, duels Cin. For all we know, while dueling with one hand Cin manages to hit Anakin's arm and then some Clones come and shoot Bene so Anakin can convert to using two hands and even after that Cin puts up a hell of a fight against him. As you see, we can play guessing games all day long but we really don't know how good of a fight Cin put against Anakin before going down.

Yes, and anyway Maul did very well against Obi-Wan in that Infintry, they were very close.

No, it isn't, it takes place approx. 1 year before TPM. And I must say Maul kicks all kinds of ass in that comic. God I love Maul, I want to say Maul beats Cin but I know it's wrong.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I disagree. Because Cin knows Niman doesnt mean he knows how to use Makashi. Niman is the diplomats form, and it uses small aspects of all the forms to create one (imo) mediocre form. Niman is NOT Makashi, in any way shape or form. And is there any proof that says Shaak Ti knows Makashi? Im not saying you are wrong but I was under the impression that the Count was the only practicioner.

Also you say that Dooku must know Shien as well, which is why he lived through Geonosis. Thats a load of bullsh*t. While Dooku was out in the open there were only jedi opposing him. Nobody with blasters were shooting at him (bar possibly Padme). He also had Jango standing there watching his back. As soon as the clones arrived Dooku fled to his secret hangar. So no, Dooku does not know Shien. If he did he would have stood a better chance against the raw power of Anakin in ROTS.


First off, your the dumb@$$.
You obviously know nothing about Niman. Yeah, it is the Diplomat's form, but it DOES use Makashi. It uses sections from every form counting one through seven.(Duh?) This means Drallig did know Makashi, although he may not have mastered it to the point that Dooku did.
And if you need proof that Shaak Ti knows Makashi, here:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Form_II:_Makashi#Users
Look in there, some genious managed to shed some light on wether she knows Makashi or not. Lol.

"Also you say that Dooku must know Shien as well, which is why he lived through Geonosis."

You friggin Idiot, when the hell did I ever say he knew Shien?
Did you mean Shii-Cho? Of course he knew Form I!
And just for the record, since you probally never saw Episode II from the sound of it, no, Padme did not shoot at Count Dooku.

Anyway, I was making to a referance to some of Dooku's earlier battles, with the Mandalorians, etc. In those fights you can clearly see him demonstrate his use of Shii-Cho, during the firefights.

Rampant ox, beleive me, Im as abig a Christpopher Lee fan as you, he's awsome, loved his movies, he's a pimp.
But you don't need to keep making Dumb@$$ posts like this and embarrasing his good name. XD

First off, your the dumb@$$.
You obviously know nothing about Niman. Yeah, it is the Diplomat's form, but it DOES use Makashi. It uses sections from every form counting one through seven.(Duh?) This means Drallig did know Makashi, although he may not have mastered it to the point that Dooku did.
And if you need proof that Shaak Ti knows Makashi, here:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk...:_Makashi#Users
Look in there, some genious managed to shed some light on wether she knows Makashi or not. Lol.

"Also you say that Dooku must know Shien as well, which is why he lived through Geonosis."

You friggin Idiot, when the hell did I ever say he knew Shien?
Did you mean Shii-Cho? Of course he knew Form I!
And just for the record, since you probally never saw Episode II from the sound of it, no, Padme did not shoot at Count Dooku.

Anyway, I was making to a referance to some of Dooku's earlier battles, with the Mandalorians, etc. In those fights you can clearly see him demonstrate his use of Shii-Cho, during the firefights.

Rampant ox, beleive me, Im as abig a Christpopher Lee fan as you, he's awsome, loved his movies, he's a pimp.
But you don't need to keep making Dumb@$$ posts like this and embarrasing his good name. XD


Wow, speak for yourself. You are a dumb@ass!!!


From Wookiepedia:

"Form VI utilizes techniques from Form I, Form III, Form IV, and Form V."

There's no mention of Makashi. And for that reason, we don't know if Cin Drallig used Makashi or not. The only people I know that use Makashi during PT time are Count Dooku, Tholme, and Shaak Ti.

And Dooku knew all the forms. He was battlemaster for the Jedi order and he taught all the forms to Grievous and the MagnaGuards.

And how do you see Dooku using Shii-Cho in a comic? The only time we have ever seen Shii-Cho is in the Clone Wars series where Kit Fisto uses it underwater. Don't tell me you can tell he was using Shii-Cho.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
First off, your the dumb@$$.
You obviously know nothing about Niman. Yeah, it is the Diplomat's form, but it DOES use Makashi. It uses sections from every form counting one through seven.(Duh?) This means Drallig did know Makashi, although he may not have mastered it to the point that Dooku did.
And if you need proof that Shaak Ti knows Makashi, here:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Form_II:_Makashi#Users
Look in there, some genious managed to shed some light on wether she knows Makashi or not. Lol.

"Also you say that Dooku must know Shien as well, which is why he lived through Geonosis."

You friggin Idiot, when the hell did I ever say he knew Shien?
Did you mean Shii-Cho? Of course he knew Form I!
And just for the record, since you probally never saw Episode II from the sound of it, no, Padme did not shoot at Count Dooku.

Anyway, I was making to a referance to some of Dooku's earlier battles, with the Mandalorians, etc. In those fights you can clearly see him demonstrate his use of Shii-Cho, during the firefights.

Rampant ox, beleive me, Im as abig a Christpopher Lee fan as you, he's awsome, loved his movies, he's a pimp.
But you don't need to keep making Dumb@$$ posts like this and embarrasing his good name. XD

Excuse me, but could we please not use such language. Both of you. Save it for the Andeteluvians, or however that banned group of jerks spelt their names. Well, namely Sorgo was bad. Janus and Traya weren't that bad, I guess. Anyway, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VI:_Niman That's some stuff on Niman. It shows that Makashi is not part of it. The link that you posted was what people were speculating. Not as concrete as this.

Well I only called him a dumb*** because he was calling rampant that even though he has no clue what Niman is. That's just stupid.

Anyway, unless there's a source, I don't believe Cin Drallig uses Makashi.



Well Obi-Wan improved a great deal from AOTC to ROTS. I would say that perhaps somewhere between is where Drallig because I doubt his Soresu is equal to Kenobi's. But I still think Maul's quickness and prowess in Juyo will penetrate whatever form Drallig uses.





But Cin was killed with one arm! That means while crushing Bene he slashed Drallig's shoulder and watched the Jedi Master die.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Well I only called him a dumb*** because he was calling rampant that even though he has no clue what Niman is. That's just stupid.

Anyway, unless there's a source, I don't believe Cin Drallig uses Makashi.



Oh that's absolutely lovely! I was ultra bored because no one was on, so I read about Cin, and here! (from Wookiepedia)

He instructed many Jedi in the art of lightsaber combat, such as Obi-Wan Kenobi, though he trained Serra Keto as a personal apprentice. He specialized only in Forms one through six. Drallig made his home deep within the Jedi Temple and gave himself over completely to the will of the Living Force.

Forms one through six

Sorry, I wasnt referring to you calling him a dumb what. I was referring to Rampant Ox. However, I can see your point of view.

Oh lol. Anyway, all right then, wookiepedia is not 100% factual but it's right most of the time.

Makashi would be a good form for Cin to use. However, how good is Cin's Makashi? It's definately not as good as Dooku's. And the way the Toying Dooku fought in AOTC, I would say Maul can match up to that. Now I am assuming that Cin's Makashi would be slightly lesser than Toying Dooku's Makashi. But I may be wrong.

I like Cin Drallig, but I just don't think he can match up to Maul.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Oh lol. Anyway, all right then, wookiepedia is not 100% factual but it's right most of the time.

Makashi would be a good form for Cin to use. However, how good is Cin's Makashi? It's definately not as good as Dooku's. And the way the Toying Dooku fought in AOTC, I would say Maul can match up to that. Now I am assuming that Cin's Makashi would be slightly lesser than Toying Dooku's Makashi. But I may be wrong.

I like Cin Drallig, but I just don't think he can match up to Maul.

Yah, I know. How can he be Niman and still know Makashi at the same time, eh? Yes, often right, because it's written by the fans who know practically more than Lucas himself.

Yes, no one has mastered Makashi to the degree of Dooku. But nevertheless, Makashi specializes in blade-to-blade combat. I have no idea what my point is :s

Very well, we all have our opinions. Can't change your mind

Man, if there was only a poll. The one with the highest votes wins. If it only was so simple.

But both are really good, and they're probably near each other.

I would Cin barely > Maul or Maul barely > Cin.

I agree with everything you said except for that last part, which, unfortunately, I didn't quite get.

I meant that the winner could go either way. In any case, the point is that the two opponents are both almost equal to each other, except one is a bit greater.

Ah. Yes. I agree. If the greater is Cin

The closest EU thing that features Kenobi to 1/2 way between AOTC and ROTS is Star Wars Republic 60: Hate and Fear, which takes palce approx. 16 months after AOTC (18 months would be Kenobi 1/2 way between AOTC and ROTS) and in it Kenobi is definately strong but only about on par with Asajj, if that, and seems to still be quite a ways away from being able to beat EU Grievous. Seriously, once I made a thread that was Cestus deception Obi-Wan (12 months after AOTC) vs. ROTS Grievous and everybody thought grievous would win and some of them even thought Grievous'd pwn and EU grievous is alot stornegr than ROTS Grievous. I honestly can't see Kenobi being storng enough to beat EU grievous till at least Dark Rendezvous which takes place 30 months after AOTC (6 before ROTS). So Cin's Soresu has to be close to ROTS kenobi's if (and only IF) Soresu is the reason that Cin can beat Grievous.

According to who/what? We never see Cin die, unless it's in the ROTS video game, which has Anakin kill Mace which is total bullshit.

Dooku toyed? It's debatable whether or not he toyed with Kenobi but he didn't toy with anybody else, and I doubt he even toyed with Kenobi. Just cause he taunetd him doesn't mean that he was toying with him.

Not necessairly. In the Sidious vs. Anakin thread Anakin has more votes, does that mean he wins? I doubt Lucas would agree with those results, he seems to think just Yoda and Mace can compete with Sidious in ROTS. Polls show what most people think but are not always accurate.

Wasn't this "Cin can beat Grievous" only Dooku's thoughts? His opinion? He said he needed fear and all that to win over the greatest of the jedi, and Cin was one of the greatest jedi, so maybe he just thought he wouldn't win under normal circomstances? I mean, he didn't list Anakin to beat Grievous, but we sure know that Anakin is better than Cin, by alot....

Originally posted by kamikz
Wasn't this "Cin can beat Grievous" only Dooku's thoughts? His opinion? He said he needed fear and all that to win over the greatest of the jedi, and Cin was one of the greatest jedi, so maybe he just thought he wouldn't win under normal circomstances? I mean, he didn't list Anakin to beat Grievous, but we sure know that Anakin is better than Cin, by alot....
Dooku said "Power moves worked well for you when you went up against the Jedi on Hypori (Clone Wars Microseries Chapter 20-21) but I pity you should you go up against any of the Council members." Any of them? So then Saesee, Agen, Ki-Adi or Shaak Ti (the last two Grievous ahs already beat before) can beat Grievous? I doubt it. But, getting more specific, Dooku asks "Need I demonstrate the powers of Mace Windu or Obi-Wan Kenobi? Cin Drallig or, starts help you, Yoda?" And don't remember anything about fear, I heard something like he didn't do as well against Obi-Wan in ROTS cause he Kenobi wasn't afraid of him. So unless Dooku was wrong about Cin being able to beat Grievous, which I doubt. As for Anakin, sure he could beat grievous but who ever says Dooku named every single Jedi that could beat Grievous? Cause I'm pretty sure Luminara Unduli could take him, too, but Dooku hates Anakin, he's not about to name him to repriment Grievous. And I really doubt Anakin is alot betetr than Cin, where did you ever get that impression? And don't say cause he beats him using one hand in ROTS cause we don't know what could have happened during their duel.

I didn't say Council masters, I said "greatest of the jedi", which not all council jedi masters are. Cin is certainley in the top 10 jedi in the order, Ki-Adi, Saeese and Agen ain't.

And are we really going to trust Dooku with that much? He is not a canon source, whether he trained him or not. He can't know everything, and he might belive something like that, doesn't make it true. And where in "need I demonstrate the power of..." is it mentioned that they can beat Grievous? He warned him of their power, nothing else, unless there is more to it than that...

Well since he for example took out Dooku, who was once the second greatest jedi duellist (or THE greatest) in the order, or that he did indeed take out Cin in the temple. Yes we don't know how the fight really went, but we do know that either way he died. From what I saw, he was fighting 2 jedi at once, if not more. He had to hold Cin at bay with one hand and even killed him, even if the place had many clones in it, there were pretty many jedi as well. And I thought Luke saw how he killed him in the holocron..... (Don't remember very well though)

Not top in the Order, Saesee and Agen? Are you basing this on their crap performance in ROTS? Lucas just wanted to get the fight over with and make Sidious seem more powerful. Anyway, in the book, Saesee was distracted reading Palaptine's mind, and Agen was considered "one of the finest fighters the Order every produced" or something along those lines. Anyway, in the Clone Wars Comics 6, they did quite well against those Bounty Hunters.

Well I wouldn't put either of them in the top 10 list, would you? Whatever the case, it doesn't really matter though...

I guess it doesn't matter, cause it's off topic, but for the time period, yes I would put them up there.

Yeah, we have different opinions, I wouldn't put them in the top 10. But whatever...

Agreed. We all have different opinions. Yes....

No, my opinion is above everyones. Obey...

The word "Obey" is not in my oh-so-limited vocabulary

.......... Shut up!

But seriousley, where you mocking my spelling? It's spelled "obey" y'know...

Originally posted by kamikz
.......... Shut up!

But seriousley, where you mocking my spelling? It's spelled "obey" y'know...

..... aye sir

Yes, yes I was mocking your spelling leftright

Oh the nerve...

Indeed

Okay, so I watched the ROTS movie where Obi-Wan sees the hologram where Anakin falls to the Dark Side. I paused and watched scene by scene, replaying it several times. Anakin uses one hand to block Bene and Cin and then he grabs Bene's throat, kills her, while fighting Cin with one hand. Now I would expect Cin to do something in the four seconds they dueled, but what they portrayed in that small sequence was Cin just hit Anakin's saber while Anakin calmly slapped him away.

I can probably understand why Cin gets killed with one-hand. Now, this may be an understatement to Cin's powers, but he can't be much better, otherwise he's being very underated. Nick Gillard himself said his character in Star Wars is far weaker than what he should be.

Plus, I don't think Maul can get killed with one hand. In addition, how credible is Dooku as a source? EU Grievous nearly stalemated Mace Windu with Vapaad and was only bested by the supreme master of Soresu, I doubt Cin is on their level. I believe Dooku was wrong. And finally I don't think Qui-Gon Jinn and his skilled apprentice can lose to Cin Drallig.

ROTS novel makes it seem as if Agen's saber skills are on the same level as Mace's. I don't know if he's on the top 10 but he is one of the strongest Jedi in ROTS, and I think Mundi's storng, too, not in the top 10 but near the top 10. Saesee is also above avg.

Yes, as otherwise we have no info on Cin we have to trust Dooku.

Dooku may not be right, but I'd say the chances of him being right are great. And was clearly indicating that those Jedi could beat Grievous.

Nope, second greatest duelist.

He was holding off Bene, some measly Padawan. while fighting Cin, it's not like he was fighting anotehr Jedi Master or Knight at the same time. And I doubt there were almost as many jedi as there were Clones, in TPM there's 10,000 Jedi, by ROTS I'd be surprised, very surprised if there were 5,000 left, and pretty much just the Padawans were at the Temple with some teachers like Cin and Iron Hand and then there was Shaak Ti, a few Masters and Knights but really probably 99% of the Jedi in the Temple were Padawans or Younglings and there were probably only like a few hundred of them. I mean, only the really Young Padawans would have been there as most of the Padawans would be fighting in the war, too, so even if there were a thousand Padawans who were all 13 years of age or younger and maybe 50 Masters and Knights Combined I doubt the Clones would have much trouble. They definately could have helped Anakin take out Cin. Ad for the hologram, I have no idea.

I have done the same. Anakin likely instantly crushed Bene's neck with his mechanical hand. Obviously she went down fast cause she's just a Padawan and isn't very strong. What would you have expected Cin to do in the 2 seconds he was fightin Anakin (cause that was NOT 4 seconds, 2 at the most and Cin's not in the beginning of the hologram). And yes, he hit Anakin's saber and Anakin blocked it, which is the same thing that happens in all saber duels - person A swings at person B, person B blocks it with his lightsaber. What would you expect, Cin to kill Anakin in 2 seconds?

For the last time it is unknown if he was kileld one-handed or not. Where did Nick say that? And you do realise that (according to Nick anyway) if he was really fighting his best when he portrayed Cin he'd have beaten Anakin. Nick regards himself as a betetr duelist than Hayden, that's what he means by Cin is weaker than what he should be. Because if Nick was trying his hardest Cin'd be alot stronger, But I sitll wanna see the source for the quote.

By Vader? I dunno, that'd be close, but we DON'T KNOW IF CIN WAS KILLED WITH ONE HAND!

Yes, Grievoud did put up a good fight against Mace and is ststaed to be close to Dooku, too. What makes you doubt that Cin is on ROTS kenobi's level or at least very near to it?

Why not? Tell me, what are you basing Cin's power off of, his ability to not be able to kill ROTS vader in under 2 seconds?

No duh. Anakin was just measely slapping Cin Drallig's oh-so-powerful attacks away. All Cin was doing was moving sideways trying to hit Anakin, which Anakin fends off quite easily. If Cin Drallig was a master swordsmen, why doesn't he do some Ataru or some Shien to push Anakin back. Take a look at these pictures:

PICTURE 1: THE START OF THE FIGHT:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/731.jpg


PICTURE 2: THE FIGHT IS UNDERWAY:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/681.jpg


PICTURE 3: ANAKIN KILLS:

http://www.starwarz.com/tbone/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/682.jpg

From what I can see, Anakin seems to have no trouble.

Why doesn't he use his saber skills to push Anakin back? Because Anakin is stronger than he is, that's why. The same reason that Obi-Wan didn't push Anakin back in 2 seconds. Are you saying that anyone who is unable to push ROTS Anakin back in 2 seconds isn't a master swordsman? Lol. As for Anakin measly slapping them back, yes he looked like he wasn't having to much trouble blocking thembut it's hard to tell from a little hologram.

OMG, it's Anakin with a yellow lightsaber!

Yes, that was Whie. So where did you get this from? Cause I don't recal seeing Cin fight Clones in the hologram or seeing Cin die. So what's the source that this comes from? Also, for all we know Cin could have gotten shot by a Clone before fighging Vader and that could be why he didn't do so well (if he didn't do so well).

He didn't get show down. If you read it, the clones blasted the children. Cin was left dying by Vader. And this is the website where I found it. It's some ROTS excerpts.

http://community.livejournal.com/ewan_hayden/607316.html



If Cin Drallig was so good, why didn't he use any of his great Soresu or Ataru skills to fend off Anakin? He lost, quite quickly. If he was anywhere near Obi-Wan's Soresu, he would have lasted about twelve seconds longer. And what we saw in the hologram is what we have to trust along with the ROTS novelization.

Yes, I admit Cin is very good, but I think Maul barely beats him.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
First off, your the dumb@$$.
You obviously know nothing about Niman. Yeah, it is the Diplomat's form, but it DOES use Makashi. It uses sections from every form counting one through seven.(Duh?) This means Drallig did know Makashi, although he may not have mastered it to the point that Dooku did.
And if you need proof that Shaak Ti knows Makashi, here:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk...:_Makashi#Users
Look in there, some genious managed to shed some light on wether she knows Makashi or not. Lol.

"Also you say that Dooku must know Shien as well, which is why he lived through Geonosis."

You friggin Idiot, when the hell did I ever say he knew Shien?
Did you mean Shii-Cho? Of course he knew Form I!
And just for the record, since you probally never saw Episode II from the sound of it, no, Padme did not shoot at Count Dooku.

Anyway, I was making to a referance to some of Dooku's earlier battles, with the Mandalorians, etc. In those fights you can clearly see him demonstrate his use of Shii-Cho, during the firefights.

Rampant ox, beleive me, Im as abig a Christpopher Lee fan as you, he's awsome, loved his movies, he's a pimp.
But you don't need to keep making Dumb@$$ posts like this and embarrasing his good name. XD


Wow, speak for yourself. You are a dumb@ass!!!


From Wookiepedia:

"Form VI utilizes techniques from Form I, Form III, Form IV, and Form V."

There's no mention of Makashi. And for that reason, we don't know if Cin Drallig used Makashi or not. The only people I know that use Makashi during PT time are Count Dooku, Tholme, and Shaak Ti.

And Dooku knew all the forms. He was battlemaster for the Jedi order and he taught all the forms to Grievous and the MagnaGuards.

And how do you see Dooku using Shii-Cho in a comic? The only time we have ever seen Shii-Cho is in the Clone Wars series where Kit Fisto uses it underwater. Don't tell me you can tell he was using Shii-Cho.





Lol, no, your still the Dumb@$$.
Nick Gillard personally designed the coreography for his character in the game, and in the game he uses Makashi as one of his forms.
Realistically, thats about as Canon as you can get.

Also, show me proof that Dooku knew all the forms, I'd like to see somthing official looking, if ya don't mind.

"And how do you see Dooku using Shii-Cho in a comic?"

Try reading one of the Jango Fett comics, it has a flashback of a young Dooku, clearly ustilising a Shii-Cho stance.

"The only time we have ever seen Shii-Cho is in the Clone Wars series where Kit Fisto uses it underwater."

No, you retard. EVERY Jedi knows Shii-cho. Its taught to them while they are younglings, rarely do they decide to Master it though.
In any case, Shii-Cho is how Makashi users and Ataru users survive firefights with projectile weapons.

Oh yeah, Kit Fisto was one of the few Masters of Shii-Cho.

Dude he was battlemaster (lightsaber instructor), he knows all the forms.



No, you don't if it's Shii-Cho. He just might look like that. Not all Jedi use their forms stance in combat.






Yeah, they know it. But guess what, they use when till there like nine, and then get chosen into padawan-ship. Then they learn another form, probably Niman.



Umm, no. When a person masters one form, he's going to stick with it. If I was a thirty old Makashi user and I am attacked with blasters, am I going to use a form that I learn about twenty years ago? No, I am going to stick with a form I know the best. And what are you talking about?!! Ataru users don't use Shii-Cho in firefights. They use Ataru. Ataru is not like Makashi, specially made for saber to saber.



Naw, you think.

I know, what I am saying is for all we know Cin may have got woudned by Clones, like, shot in the shoulder and the leg and then he fought Vader and the reason that he didn't do so well is because he was already badly injured. The bottom line is: We don't know.

Soresu does not push an enemy back. And how is Ataru going to stop Anakin from killing Bene? That's bullshit, even Mace wouldn't be able to stop Anakin in under 2 seconds.

Yes, it does seem that way, but we don't know what the circumstances were - Drallig could have been hurt.

Unless he was injured.

We saw nothing in the hologram, save Anakin blocking 2 of Drallig's swings at him. However, the script does say that Drallig went down pretty fast.

I doubt it, until we know the condition Cin was in when he dueled Vader we can't say, though.

Just like Council#13 and I mentioned before, we don't have a great amount of information on Cin to pit him against Darth Maul. That's why I would agree it will be a close fight, but I believe Drallig loses, while Maul wins, vice versa for you. We can keep arguing over this, but the results going to end up the same.

Unless we find out that Cin did bad while fighting Anakin in ROTS b/c he was injured, but until then we'll call it an unknown.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos

I can probably understand why Cin gets killed with one-hand. Now, this may be an understatement to Cin's powers, but he can't be much better, otherwise he's being very underated. Nick Gillard himself said his character in Star Wars is far weaker than what he should be.




Hey Quinlan, Can I get an official quote of that? I mean, Nick talking about his character?

http://www.theforce.net/videogames/story/Nick_Gillard_Talks_ROTS_Game_92147.asp

That is the link.

maul wins and thats it... but u know a ROTS anakin vs maul fight would be very interesting

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
http://www.theforce.net/videogames/story/Nick_Gillard_Talks_ROTS_Game_92147.asp

That is the link.


Thanks Quinlan. Btw, I don't think your a dumbass. hug

For anyone who eas saying that Makashi died on Geonosis, you are wrong. According to Dooku, Tholme and other Jedi use Makashi.



http://www.swtimeline.ru/comics/Republic_72-73_Clone_Wars_-_Trackdown/Republic_72-73_Clone_Wars_-_Trackdown_04.jpg

Wow, which comic is that? Tholme is like one of my favorite characters, and I've always wanted to see him in action like that.

It's Star Wars Republic: Trackdown. I just started reading it earlier today and am now going to finish reading it. If I find anything good that Quinlan does in it I'm gonna post it at USW in the tourney thread.

Forget about Quinlan, Tholme is badass in it. Almost a match for Sora I'd say.

Not quite, he only escaped so easily due to his Azanti Training, but Tholme is quite badass. I'd put Sora slightly stonger than Maul and I'd put Tholme slightly below Qui-Gon, maybe on par with Kit, if not then just below him by a hair.

Well I am a bit of a Tholme fanboy, but he just seemed badass in that comic. More of a duelist like Count Dooku, and not too far from Sora Bulq although clearly the inferior. He seems really smart as well, that would be a + in a vs. fight.

Tholme's cool, he taught Quinlan.

Yeah, Tholme is neat.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
Well I am a bit of a Tholme fanboy, but he just seemed badass in that comic. More of a duelist like Count Dooku, and not too far from Sora Bulq although clearly the inferior. He seems really smart as well, that would be a + in a vs. fight.
Yeah, Tholme was extremely badass, I like that little Jedi, Tao, too, he seems to be just as strong if not stronger than Tholme (having seen both of them fight alot in that one comic with Volfe Karkko). I really like him, but when he walked away from Tholme after Tholme asked for his help I was like "b*tch". That pissed me off, together they would have been able to kill Sora for sure.

lol, yeah exacty. That little coward.

Never thought you were one too, so don't take my insults seriously.

Anyway, I hope Tholme and Quinlan will appear in the Star Wars live-action series. That'll be awesome, and hopefully we can see them in combat. I wished they could have shown Quinlan and Tholme in the Clone Wars cartoon series, that would have been cool.

i hope they show most of the jedi who's fates are unknown after order 66.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Never thought you were one too, so don't take my insults seriously.

Anyway, I hope Tholme and Quinlan will appear in the Star Wars live-action series. That'll be awesome, and hopefully we can see them in combat. I wished they could have shown Quinlan and Tholme in the Clone Wars cartoon series, that would have been cool.

I'm actually really surprised that he didn't appear in the CW cartoons.