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ok, i do know kyp is very powerful but i wonder if count dooku can match him in saber combat or in a pure force fight.


1.geonosis-force and saber
2.coruscant-force
3.manaan-lightsaber
4.naboo-lightsaber
5.mustafar-force powers
6.homer vs maul

Dooku has a capital D.

ok then Dooku, there

what do you think rampant? im sure you are on dookues side :P as i am

Of course im on Dooku's side. But I know next to nothing about Durron so I cant make a educated response. What does fight 6 mean?

its just nonsense lol, did it for fun

o yea i do know that people claim kyp can manipulate black holes.
i havnt read about it yet so im not sure

1.geonosis-force and saber (Kyp)
2.coruscant-force (Kyp)
3.manaan-lightsaber (Kyp, are they on the city or are they swimming?)
4.naboo-lightsaber (Kyp)
5.mustafar-force powers (Kyp)
6.homer vs maul (WTF? Err Homer )


I don't know a whole lot about Kyp, but I heard he's almost at Luke's level.

Considering the fact that Kyp Durron is superior to ROTS Sidious in both force and saber combat, it's unlikely Dooku stands much of a chance.

eh seems kyp wtf pwns him.

anyways what the heck is that red lightning i saw dooku using in 1 of the clone wars comics? i cant remember which but i remember red lightning, is it life drain like the one in JA and JO?

Wasn't Kyp a bad saber duellist?

When did Kyp surpass ROTS Palpatine?

by NJO Kyp surpasses ROTS Sidious. At one point Luke thought Kyp possessed more force potential than even himself.

I consider Kyp as the 2nd most powerful Jedi, to only Luke himself. Though I may be wrong.

luke only thought that kyp had more potential, dont know if its true or not but yes vos i could agree he is 2nd best in the njo. he looks much more mature from his ugly potrait in jedi academy leviathen and the new essential guide book

well maybe this match would look more like anakin vs dooku in ROTS where dooku loses. i doubt he owuld get pwned but kyp would win maybe with a little broken sweat, dooku is neither easy or hardis to kyp, id say dooku might put up a fight

Kyp wins all of them. Kyp is the second strongest Jedi in the NJO (with Luke being the strongest). Since most of the people here think that Kyle Katarn, who is weaker than Kyp Durron, can beat Sidious then, logically, Kyp can too and Sidious > Dooku. Like kamikz said, I don't think that Kyp was a great dueler for someone of his calibur, but I'm assuming that he could still take Dooku in a pure saber fight.

In pure saber fight, his potential would not count very much. Dooku mastered the saber vs saber form to the highest degree, I think he could win...

Kyp clearly owns Dooku.

Originally posted by kamikz
In pure saber fight, his potential would not count very much. Dooku mastered the saber vs saber form to the highest degree, I think he could win...

So did Anakin and we all know how Dooku fared against him.

When facing someone who isn't far behind NJO Luke Skywalker I think even if Kyp's saber skills are only mediocre for someone of his calibur I think he could still take Dooku in a saber fight for sure.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner



So did Anakin and we all know how Dooku fared against him.

well dooku lost to anakin only because he underestimated anakin and attempted to play strength to strength with anakin which is a very very badmistake to do to a djem so/shien master.

for saber fights if dooku focus and not let his guard down because makashi tires their opponents out then it is possible dooku could win.

if dooku knowshow dangerous kyp is then he wouldnt underestimate him in a saber fight,

anyways force fight dookus out, hes wtf pwned

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
by NJO Kyp surpasses ROTS Sidious. At one point Luke thought Kyp possessed more force potential than even himself.


In NJO Kyp gets attacked by four Slayers and gets beaten and captured, in the last book in fact. (When he was at his strongest.)

Given, Slayers are formidable, but Dark Lord Sidious would have WTF Pwned them and raped them at the same time.
The Slayers woulden't have stood a chance.

Yet Kyp gets beat up and captured by them.

I think Kyp at that time was no where near even Anakin's power.
(Episode 3)

Sidious wins this one, easily.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Kyp wins all of them. Kyp is the second strongest Jedi in the NJO (with Luke being the strongest). Since most of the people here think that Kyle Katarn, who is weaker than Kyp Durron, can beat Sidious then, logically, Kyp can too and Sidious > Dooku. Like kamikz said, I don't think that Kyp was a great dueler for someone of his calibur, but I'm assuming that he could still take Dooku in a pure saber fight.

Lol, forgot for a second that this was Dooku vs Duron and not Sidious.
Sorry. ^_^'

Anyway, I think Dooku would just barely(at least) beat him.
Kyp was horrible with a lightsaber, and his Force abilities at this point are at least equal to Dooku's.

Dooku wins.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
In NJO Kyp gets attacked by four Slayers and gets beaten and captured, in the last book in fact. (When he was at his strongest.)

Given, Slayers are formidable, but Dark Lord Sidious would have WTF Pwned them and raped them at the same time.
The Slayers woulden't have stood a chance.

Yet Kyp gets beat up and captured by them.

I think Kyp at that time was no where near even Anakin's power.
(Episode 3)

Sidious would wtf pwn them? How? He magically knows about the Vong and how to defeat them? Please. And no Starbuck, Kyp Durron by NJO has already surpassed ROTS Anakin.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sidious would wtf pwn them? How? He magically knows about the Vong and how to defeat them? Please. And no Starbuck, Kyp Durron by NJO has already surpassed ROTS Anakin.


Lol...how do I answer this one.

Sidious woulden't have to know about the YV.

Its like Bruce Lee walking into this alley where these four really tough thugs use MMA moves and normally attack their opponant all at once.

Bruce Lee woulden't need to know about who they were or what they used - He'd kick their asses anyway, easily.

Its about like that with Sidious.

He might not be able to pick them up with the Force, but as soon as the four slayers attacked him, he'd be ripping trees out of the ground and crushing them to death. Then the ones that survived that would take him on with their amphistaffs and he'd totally out-technique them and kill them in seconds with his lightsaber.

So, uh, how would he lose?

And Kyp was a horrible lightsaber duelist, if you need proof of this, remind yourself of his fight with those Slayers.
Anakin would rape the hell out of them in a duel. Sure, they might do alright, but they'd still die.

And Kyp durron by NJO is still a half-assed Jedi Master that can hardly use any skill with a saber and has strong, but unimpressive Force capabilities.

Please, Anakin would break him down in a minuite.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Lol...how do I answer this one.

Sidious woulden't have to know about the YV.

Its like Bruce Lee walking into this alley where these four really tough thugs use MMA moves and normally attack their opponant all at once.

Bruce Lee woulden't need to know about who they were or what they used - He'd kick their asses anyway, easily.

Its about like that with Sidious.
Uh, except for the fact that they're on a different level of the force meaning Sidious couldn't use it, and their armor is strong enough to regenerate after a lightsaber hit, so that's pretty much out.

He might not be able to pick them up with the Force, but as soon as the four slayers attacked him, he'd be ripping trees out of the ground and crushing them to death. Then the ones that survived that would take him on with their amphistaffs and he'd totally out-technique them and kill them in seconds with his lightsaber.

So, uh, how would he lose?
ripping trees out of the ground? Crushing them to death? Is this before or after they gang up and slaughter him?

And Kyp was a horrible lightsaber duelist, if you need proof of this, remind yourself of his fight with those Slayers.
Anakin would rape the hell out of them in a duel. Sure, they might do alright, but they'd still die.
Anakin would rape the slayers? I'm glad your argument is purely speculation and retarded opinion. Kyp not being able to defeat the slayers speaks less for his saber skills and more for the Vong. Anakin would get slaughtered if he were in the position.

And Kyp durron by NJO is still a half-assed Jedi Master that can hardly use any skill with a saber and has strong, but unimpressive Force capabilities.
Actually Kyp is second to only Luke, and replicated a lot of Luke's feats on a smaller scale. His force powers far surpass Anakin's.

Kyp Durron can pawn Dooku and can comfortable slay Dooku and Ani combined. What the hell are you talking about? Kyp's the 2nd most powerful Jedi to only Mr. Luke Skywalker himself.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Uh, except for the fact that they're on a different level of the force meaning Sidious couldn't use it, and their armor is strong enough to regenerate after a lightsaber hit, so that's pretty much out.


ripping trees out of the ground? Crushing them to death? Is this before or after they gang up and slaughter him?


Anakin would rape the slayers? I'm glad your argument is purely speculation and retarded opinion. Kyp not being able to defeat the slayers speaks less for his saber skills and more for the Vong. Anakin would get slaughtered if he were in the position.


Actually Kyp is second to only Luke, and replicated a lot of Luke's feats on a smaller scale. His force powers far surpass Anakin's.


LOL, you write this stuff and you call "me" retarded?

First off, being on a different level of the Force means jack. Sidious would still be able to use his Force (Duh) and it woulden't matter about their armour, know why?
If a lightsaber blow is powerful enough and has enough energy put into it, it will tear through Vong armour, Luke has done this before.
Anyway, even if he dosen't know about this at first, he'll start to ward off their attacks with expertise until he does the above.

Second, You mean to tell me that a bunch of suped-up Yuuzahn Vong are going to gang up on the Dark Lord of the Sith?
They won't win. Lol.
Oh, and, its right after they ARE crushed to death by the trees, you dumb@$$.


Third. Yeah retard, Anakin would rape the Slayers. Their just YV.
I mean, he went through the main Jedi Temple, killing groupings of Padawan's, formidible Knights and even Masters, (like the Battlemaster of the Temple)
Oh yeah, he also killed a Sith Lord and ex-Jedi Master of the highest caliber, and THE master of Makashi.
Im really glad your the only retard here, which is why you made that mongoloid-esqe statement up there.
Anakin would expertly beat the living crap out of those Slayers.
He's the Chosen One of the Force, and the best Jedi Knight in the Order at the time of its fall.
He WOULD rape them.
BTW, you should take a second and remember how he fights, he moves like a blur and even out-techniqes his opponants. How a Slayer let alone four could stand up to that is laughable.

Now, later on, like is Swarm War, Kyp is second to Luke, but at the end of NJO, which is what we're talking about, Anakin's Force ability is still slightly better than Kyp's.

OMFG, Anakin the Chosen One can beat Yoda!!! WTF, that's bullshit reasoning.



Whoa, Hayden Christensen is a good swordfighter.




What the hell are you talking about? All I see from Ani is a Force Choke, Crush, Push, and Pull.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
OMFG, Anakin the Chosen One can beat Yoda!!! WTF, that's bullshit reasoning.

Yeah, he could have, had he reached his full potential.
Plus he has more of a grasp on the Force than any Jedi does. Some of that grasp was just dormant.
This still allows him to beat the crap out of the Slayers, of course.

Whoa, Hayden Christensen is a good swordfighter.

Duh, so is Anakin Skywalker. Nice attempt at discrediting.


What the hell are you talking about? All I see from Ani is a Force Choke, Crush, Push, and Pull.

Still better than what Kyp's done at the end of NJO.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
LOL, you write this stuff and you call "me" retarded?

First off, being on a different level of the Force means jack. Sidious would still be able to use his Force (Duh) and it woulden't matter about their armour, know why?
If a lightsaber blow is powerful enough and has enough energy put into it, it will tear through Vong armour, Luke has done this before.
Anyway, even if he dosen't know about this at first, he'll start to ward off their attacks with expertise until he does the above.
Uh Sidious would be able to use the force? How about you're full of shit? Luke had to create a special force technique designed for a different level of the force, and the Jedi had to obtain Vong Sense to use the force on the Vong, so what in the blue hell makes you think Sidious can randomly use the force? Oh yea he can't.

Second, You mean to tell me that a bunch of suped-up Yuuzahn Vong are going to gang up on the Dark Lord of the Sith?
They won't win. Lol.
Oh, and, its right after they ARE crushed to death by the trees, you dumb@$$.
Omg because he has the title of DLOTS he automatically wins! As the elders on this forum say, I will take bullshit for $500, Alex.


Third. Yeah retard, Anakin would rape the Slayers. Their just YV.
I mean, he went through the main Jedi Temple, killing groupings of Padawan's, formidible Knights and even Masters, (like the Battlemaster of the Temple)
Oh yeah, he also killed a Sith Lord and ex-Jedi Master of the highest caliber, and THE master of Makashi.
Im really glad your the only retard here, which is why you made that mongoloid-esqe statement up there.
Anakin would expertly beat the living crap out of those Slayers.
He's the Chosen One of the Force, and the best Jedi Knight in the Order at the time of its fall.
He WOULD rape them.
BTW, you should take a second and remember how he fights, he moves like a blur and even out-techniqes his opponants. How a Slayer let alone four could stand up to that is laughable.

Lets forget that the Vong killed over 365 trillion people. conquered countless worlds, took over Coruscant, all the while the JEdi were powerless to stop them. You seem to completely fail to comprehend the simple fact that the Vong are not of the galaxy, and are on another level of the force. Now logic states that the Jedi wouldn't know how to fight against them, neither will the sith..

Now, later on, like is Swarm War, Kyp is second to Luke, but at the end of NJO, which is what we're talking about, Anakin's Force ability is still slightly better than Kyp's.

Kyp was second to Luke even when Exar Kun inhabited his body, he is superior to Anakin, get that through your skull.

Kyp also tossed around a dovin basal, which is like black hole. I'd like to see Anakin, Sidious or even Yoda toss around something of (near) infinite density.

I'm quite sure all of three are better duelists, but Kyp has some insane force powers.

@Darth Sexy

Jacen has surpassed Kyp by far. Unless you meant by the NJO, but even then it's debateable.

Has he? I never read Betrayal, but I never got that impression from what people have said.

Originally posted by Generic Hero
Kyp also tossed around a dovin basal, which is like black hole. I'd like to see Anakin, Sidious or even Yoda toss around something of (near) infinite density.

I'm quite sure all of three are better duelists, but Kyp has some insane force powers.

@Darth Sexy

Jacen has surpassed Kyp by far. Unless you meant by the NJO, but even then it's debateable.

Yea I meant NJO, I'm sure Jacen surpassed him afterwards.

Originally posted by Generic Hero
Kyp also tossed around a dovin basal, which is like black hole. I'd like to see Anakin, Sidious or even Yoda toss around something of (near) infinite density.

I'm quite sure all of three are better duelists, but Kyp has some insane force powers.

@Darth Sexy

Jacen has surpassed Kyp by far. Unless you meant by the NJO, but even then it's debateable.


which anakin? ROTS anakin nope and yoda can because he said "size matters not, the only difference is in your mind"
and if u talk about anakin at his peak he can do anything

"Canonically, Anakin Skywalker had the most Force potential of any individual who ever lived; it is also a canon fact that Luke Skywalker possesses the same force potential as that of Anakin Skywalker, as stated by George Lucas. Luke Skywalker represents the full power of Anakin Skywalker, had he ever lived to achieve his true potential. In addition, Jacen Solo himself has been the latest in-universe character to state that that his former master is currently the most powerful Jedi in the Order. It is essential to remember, however, that raw potential does not necessarily correlate into actual ability."

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
"Canonically, Anakin Skywalker had the most Force potential of any individual who ever lived; it is also a canon fact that Luke Skywalker possesses the same force potential as that of Anakin Skywalker, as stated by George Lucas. Luke Skywalker represents the full power of Anakin Skywalker, had he ever lived to achieve his true potential. In addition, Jacen Solo himself has been the latest in-universe character to state that that his former master is currently the most powerful Jedi in the Order. It is essential to remember, however, that raw potential does not necessarily correlate into actual ability."

i would like to see the exact quote where lucas said luke = anakin
and im not talking about raw power, what use is lots of power when you dont know how to use it? thats a good point

and lukes powers are mostly lightside powers like shield, remove from force, green lightning,

full anakin skywalker would be the same if so but his powers would be dark side which are far more destructive

i think that is why GL said anakin would the be strongest. because luke at NJO i see him more defensive than offensive, and anakin is mostly on offense

George Lucas Rolling Stones interview

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
George Lucas Rolling Stones interview

Oh so specific! Uh, date and issue of article. Exact quote, or preferrably just a scan. I thought it was said it was in Vanity Fair, but whatever. If you know where it was said, you should have the article, correct?

im trying to find which interview it was, I wasn't aware there was more than one, but apparently there is. In any sense I'll find it because it's not like it's made up.

a theory i came up with with why GL said anakin would become the most powerful force user ever. problably because he would kill luke before luke could fufill his potential

No, he said Luke symbolized what Anakin would have become if he reached his fullest potential. Anakin's potential=Luke's potential.

lukes using lightside powers at his peak, anakin is a sith lord who would do things far stronger than a force storm at his peak,

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Uh Sidious would be able to use the force? How about you're full of shit? Luke had to create a special force technique designed for a different level of the force, and the Jedi had to obtain Vong Sense to use the force on the Vong, so what in the blue hell makes you think Sidious can randomly use the force? Oh yea he can't.


Omg because he has the title of DLOTS he automatically wins! As the elders on this forum say, I will take bullshit for $500, Alex.




Lets forget that the Vong killed over 365 trillion people. conquered countless worlds, took over Coruscant, all the while the JEdi were powerless to stop them. You seem to completely fail to comprehend the simple fact that the Vong are not of the galaxy, and are on another level of the force. Now logic states that the Jedi wouldn't know how to fight against them, neither will the sith..



Kyp was second to Luke even when Exar Kun inhabited his body, he is superior to Anakin, get that through your skull.



K, first off, Just because he can't use the Force on the YV dosen't mean he cant use the Force on "trees". Dumb@$$.
(God, what a F*ckin retard.)

"Omg because he has the title of DLOTS he automatically wins! As the elders on this forum say, I will take bullshit for $500, Alex."

Yeah, being the Dark Lord of the Sith does automaticly give him the win.
Confused? Watch Episode 3...
By the way, you should take some bullshit, 'cause its all you seem to have going for you.

Secondly, oh yeah, thats right, the Vong did kill trillions of people.
Wait a minuite...they had an army of warriors thousands strong.
Hmm, creatures that could manipulate gravity...
That means with their numbers they were invincible, but not in solitary groups. bangin
Also, you have to remember that by NJO, Pretty much all of the Jedi were actaully what you could call "Half Ass Jedi", since they were trained like they were in a self-defense class for elementary kids.
I read the Jedi Search and Young Jedi Knights books.
Luke's training methods were wise and pacifistic, but as far as Martial skills and combat training went, it was laughable, even pathetic.
I mean, most Jedi in his Order barely knew half the Force powers that the Jedi of the PT did.
And don't even get me started on lightsaber skills...
Most Jedi basicly utilised an aggressive and flashy form of Ataru that came in three varients or so. If they diden't use that, they basicly swung their lightsaber around like a blind-folded kid at a piniata.
Which, during the NJO's last book, The Unifying Force, is how Kyp Durron fought when he took on those four YV.
So anyway, Yeah, Luke's Jedi because of their numbers and questionable skill, did horrible against the YV most of the time.
But I think if the YV had attacked the galaxy just before the Blockade of Naboo, It would have been a slightly different story.
And, if the old Sith Empire had been around to fight the YV, that would have been very interesting Indeed. Dare I say, it would have been possible that they would have WTF Pwned the Vong?


Lastly, Yes, Kyp would get raped by Anakin.
Kyp was a little meek boy who grew into an overly agressive man.
He became impressive AFTER NJO, but, during the NJO, Anakin(As in E3)
Would have beat the unliving crap out of him.
I mean, he would've had a new mop for his apartment with Padme.
He woulden't need a cleaning droid or anything. He could just reach into his closet and pull out a blackened and beaten Kyp Durron, stick his head in a bucket, and go.
And for that matter, he could probally use some of your bullshit to fertilize Padme's balcony garden.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
K, first off, Just because he can't use the Force on the YV dosen't mean he cant use the Force on "trees". Dumb@$$.
(God, what a F*ckin retard.)

"Omg because he has the title of DLOTS he automatically wins! As the elders on this forum say, I will take bullshit for $500, Alex."

Yeah, being the Dark Lord of the Sith does automaticly give him the win.
Confused? Watch Episode 3...
By the way, you should take some bullshit, 'cause its all you seem to have going for you.

Secondly, oh yeah, thats right, the Vong did kill trillions of people.
Wait a minuite...they had an army of warriors thousands strong.
Hmm, creatures that could manipulate gravity...
That means with their numbers they were invincible, but not in solitary groups. bangin
Also, you have to remember that by NJO, Pretty much all of the Jedi were actaully what you could call "Half Ass Jedi", since they were trained like they were in a self-defense class for elementary kids.
I read the Jedi Search and Young Jedi Knights books.
Luke's training methods were wise and pacifistic, but as far as Martial skills and combat training went, it was laughable, even pathetic.
I mean, most Jedi in his Order barely knew half the Force powers that the Jedi of the PT did.
And don't even get me started on lightsaber skills...
Most Jedi basicly utilised an aggressive and flashy form of Ataru that came in three varients or so. If they diden't use that, they basicly swung their lightsaber around like a blind-folded kid at a piniata.
Which, during the NJO's last book, The Unifying Force, is how Kyp Durron fought when he took on those four YV.
So anyway, Yeah, Luke's Jedi because of their numbers and questionable skill, did horrible against the YV most of the time.
But I think if the YV had attacked the galaxy just before the Blockade of Naboo, It would have been a slightly different story.
And, if the old Sith Empire had been around to fight the YV, that would have been very interesting Indeed. Dare I say, it would have been possible that they would have WTF Pwned the Vong?


Lastly, Yes, Kyp would get raped by Anakin.
Kyp was a little meek boy who grew into an overly agressive man.
He became impressive AFTER NJO, but, during the NJO, Anakin(As in E3)
Would have beat the unliving crap out of him.
I mean, he would've had a new mop for his apartment with Padme.
He woulden't need a cleaning droid or anything. He could just reach into his closet and pull out a blackened and beaten Kyp Durron, stick his head in a bucket, and go.
And for that matter, he could probally use some of your bullshit to fertilize Padme's balcony garden.

Wow, it's a good thing your post was completely idiotic, otherwise I would need to write a rebuttal.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wow, it's a good thing your post was completely idiotic, otherwise I would need to write a rebuttal.

Heh, You can't write a rebuttal because you can't think of anything to say.
Nice try at smoke-screening your inability.

Actually, Darth Sexy is completely right, and is in no way, shape, or form obligated to reply to that horribly written post because it is completely illogical. Honestly, before you criticize other people's inability to formulate proper arguments - even though that is clearly not the case here - you should worry about your own.

Or would you like me to tear that thing to shreds?

Originally posted by Advent
Actually, Darth Sexy is completely right, and is in no way, shape, or form obligated to reply to that horribly written post because it is completely illogical. Honestly, before you criticize other people's inability to formulate proper arguments - even though that is clearly not the case here - you should worry about your own.

Or would you like me to tear that thing to shreds?

Rather, I'd like you to pull your head out of your rear end before you speak, coulden't quite hear your words.

The fun stuff was just to add some finality to what was already explained.
But, with some of the facts up there, tell me, intelligently, what was wrong.

For your sake Starbuck, I suggest you don't argue with Sama.

lol

Originally posted by Adas
lol

I've been through worse. ^_^

Like debating with you, a dude who can't back up his arguments.

Everything I said up there was frank, but made perfect sense.
Unless your a total 'tard, you know this.

Or do you,

Darth Sexy?
stupid

This guy's funny.

BTW Advent, Im still waiting for that reply, unless you have none.
hysterical

@ Adas
Hey the guy with the questions about lightsabers. Find everything you needed?

Btw, Im no where near as funny as Jaster_Mereel

Originally posted by Jaster_Mereel
HA!!! Bane ends up desroying 100s of sith lords! Sidius couldnt even kill Vader. Check out the Darth Bane Bio on wookieepedia, it has book spoilers for Path of Destruction. He pulls a moon out of orbit with the force! Thats Pimp!

Gotta go, you kids have fun. george
Stay Gangsta, Adas. smoke

Btw Advent, Don't try to just vomit up baseless crap with me.
I'll bite ya head off. vampire

Oh Starbuck, I'm so sorry for making you wait. I mean, it's not as if I have all the time in the world to respond to your nonsensical bullshit.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
K, first off, Just because he can't use the Force on the YV dosen't mean he cant use the Force on "trees". Dumb@$$.
(God, what a F*ckin retard.)

And where, pray tell, is Anakin going to find a damn tree and smack Yuuzhan Vong around? We do know that Kyp controlled a dovin basal, which - as pointed out by Generic Hero - has a near infinite amount of density. To assume that Anakin can even do the same, or would fare any better than Kyp did using the Force, is ridiculous when you consider the fact he couldn't successfully repel Obi-Wan's Force push, but instead ended up flying back along with Obi-Wan. May I remind you that this is the Obi-Wan who got tooled by the Force in 22 seconds flat. If our beloved Anakin is such a superior Force user to Kyp Durron, why didn't he just toss Obi-Wan into the lava? We know Kenobi's Force defense isn't the best around.



I can't believe what I'm seeing. If you are going to debate, please do it properly and make valid points. This point isn't worth the bytes used to communicate it through the internet. I'll address it fully below, so read on.



http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7886/crispy2kw0.jpg

^

As we can see, being a Dark Lord of the Sith does not grant you victory. In fact, it really means nothing. For Anakin, it meant getting burnt to a crisp in ROTS. And of course, getting half his body hacked off and strewn across Mustafar. Now, I'm honestly not sure if this is a joke point or not, but I'll address it either way - as I'm not fully sure someone can be this incompetent.

And as we see in Purge, it didn't save Darth Vader from getting his hand chopped off yet again, and almost getting killed. Dark Lord of the Sith means you'll win? Whoa. And again, I say I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but due to your sheer idiocy it wouldn't surprise me if you were being serious.



Really? Kyle Katarn, who was the Battlemaster of the NJO, was a "half ass Jedi"? Oh, okay. That must mean the likes of Jerec, Sariss, Pic, Gorc, Boc, Yun, and Maw must've sucked. Despite their descriptions, in which, all of them are described as powerful. I can definitely hand you the quotes if you want. Something you've yet to do, nor can you do because they don't exist. And actually just by playing the game cutscenes, and reading the books - this is definitely not the case for Katarn. We do know Tionne and the other apprentices present when Exar Kun's spirit was confronting them knew how to defend against their opponent through ancient tales. "Half ass"? My ass.

In any case, even if you want to claim that most of the NJO is incompetent, that means nothing really. The top dogs of the NJO surpass a lot of other people. By your logic, I could be saying that the Jedi of Exar Kun's time are incompetent because one fully pledged Jedi was killed by a group of thugs, a Jedi Knight that is classified as exceptional (Oss Willum) was tooled by some thugs as well, and one of the more powerful Jedi masters of the era, Arca Jeth, was pwned by a droid! Now, if I used that to base an argument against Kun, you would find that it has no value pertaining to the fight. As yours doesn't either.



Prove it. What Force powers do the PT Jedi display again? Force push? Pull? Impressive. And also provide proof to the claim that Luke's method of training is "laughable". I want an exact quote. You keep on pulling these ridiculous comments out of your ass, however, you do not give quotes to back you up. Which you should on a strong claim such as this.



Ataru? No. They did have three main forms, but proof they were based off Ataru? And what do you think Anakin's lightsaber form is? Djem So. Which is the second most aggressive form, next to Vaapad. Mace Windu even comments that Anakin used Djem So "to answer his emotions" (ROTS novel, IIRC). And we all know Anakin is a headstrong, arrogant, and angry guy. So, *gasp* could it be that his Djem So is "aggressive and flashy"?

I mean, aside from the motto that is "victory through superior firepower".



Prove it. Prove they swing like that. Quit discrediting the NJO with ridiculous comments. Back up this claim. And also, it's hilarity at best when you consider the PT Jedi practiced Niman. And from what we know stated by the Star Wars Insider, Issue 62 for reference:

"In the time of Palpatine's Chancellorship, Form VI is the current standard."

Adding to that, it also says Niman was made to suit the "modern Jedi". So, okay, I've established that Niman was the most widely practiced form of the PT. Now, I move onto the next point which is that Niman is probably one of the worst forms anyone could use. Niman is the "diplomat's Form" (Insider), and actually doesn't focus on combat, instead it makes room for political attributes. So, I fail to see how that's more impressive and stunning than the New Jedi Order's form. We do know that every Niman practitioner that went to Geonosis was owned. Now, you're going to tell me that the New Jedi Order is weak with sabers? Get a grip.



Prove it. Give me an actual quote that says "Kyp aimlessly swung his saber around".



Slightly? It would've been a mass slaughter. NJO Luke had trouble taking down Shimmra. How can the likes of the most powerful Jedi of that era, Yoda, dream of doing that? How could Anakin even dream of that if the Vong had came instead of the Separatists? In any case, we do know that the the Republic forces, and the Jedi couldn't hope to even defeated the Separatist forces without the clones of Kamino. Even so, directly scanned from the NEC:

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/1207/necpage54uf8.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8664/necfullpage54fo0.th.jpg

Now, even with two hundred thousand clones barely any Jedi survived, and all Niman users died. And as well, the Clone troopers lost thousands. We're talking about Yuuzhan Vong. I'd be willing to bet only about like ten Jedi out of the entire era could even defeat more than one. We know the Niman users were practically wiped out at Geonosis alone, how are the Jedi and Republic forces, pre-Blockade going to stop the Vong? Who's armor is resistant to lightsabers, are unable to be affected by the Force (or highly resistant I should say), and have far superior weaponry?

The PT era would belong to the Yuuzhan Vong, as would everything that followed if we let it up to the PT forces. We also do know that no one was prepared for a war, do you recall that Binks had to gi. The Republic and Jedi forces wouldn't even know what hit them. And then, of course, trying to attack back would be futile in most cases.

Another important point to bring up is that, at that time, the clones hadn't even been processed yet! LOL! How's the Republic going to stop the Vong with their "grand army", huh?



So, we're talking about the Ancient Sith? Um, what exactly is your point, and how does it correlate to your argument? For one, the Sith of old have nothing to do with the PT, as the PT Jedi and Republic would be slaughtered horribly. It is noted, exactly, that they had to give "emergency powers" to Sidious as we know to announce the army on Kamino, they were not prepared for a war, and certainly not at all prior to the Blockade of Naboo. The Republic needed the clones or else they would've lost against the casual Separatist armies, who are not resistant to Force attacks, nor to a lightsaber.

Oh, great. Good for me, that you don't even provide any actual evidence to back that assertion up. Not that I even care, but you're reasonings are completely fallacious. That's what I'm addressing, not that Anakin can beat Kyp.

So, my horribly incompetent friend, provide proof. Not just your assertions that have nothing backing them up.



Um, yes, that "little meek boy" took down a Leviathan at age 16. Impressive. And I am aware he did use the lightning already there, however, that's still a plus for Kyp. And he also was able to somewhat combat it as well. As for Anakin? Oh, here I'll be you: Anakin was a little slave boy, who grew into an overly aggressive man.

So, what's your point? What does that have to do with anything really?



Oh yes, because Lord Starbuck declares it - it must be so. Evidence? I've been waiting your entire post to find some, and as I near the end, it doesn't look like there will be any.



So, where's the proof that Anakin would beat Kyp again? All I've been seeing is shit being flung around like a monkey. You made one blanket statement, and claim Anakin will win? Lmfao. You really don't even have an argument. You just basically said "Anakin wins".

As I said, before you critize anyone about an argument, look at your own - as it is severly lacking. Actually, you didn't even make any valid points, lol.

And keep in mind, I'm not even arguing Kyp > Anakin. I'm doing as you said, which was pointing out your faulty logic, and fallacious reasonings (then again, you don't even use logic at all...). Here's the most ironic statement I've ever seen in my entire life:

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Like debating with you, a dude who can't back up his arguments.

LOL! Where was your proof again? Nowhere to be found. You just spaced like every sentence to make it look long. Anyways, I'd just like to say you possibly have the worst arguments ever witnessed. Worse than Numan's, in fact.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Btw Advent, Don't try to just vomit up baseless crap with me.

Oh my god. You claim I would spew "baseless crap"? Look at your damn post. I've debated far smarter than you, I am far more intelligent than you, and I know how to debate. This is ridiculous. An actual debater (me) against someone who doesn't even use what little braincells they have (you).

Originally posted by Advent
Oh, great. Good for me, that you don't even provide any actual evidence to back that assertion up. Not that I even care, but you're reasonings are completely fallacious. That's what I'm addressing, not that Anakin can beat Kyp.

So, my horribly incompetent friend, provide proof. Not just your assertions that have nothing backing them up.



Um, yes, that "little meek boy" took down a Leviathan at age 16. Impressive. And I am aware he did use the lightning already there, however, that's still a plus for Kyp. And he also was able to somewhat combat it as well. As for Anakin? Oh, here I'll be you: Anakin was a little slave boy, who grew into an overly aggressive man.

So, what's your point? What does that have to do with anything really?



Oh yes, because Lord Starbuck declares it - it must be so. Evidence? I've been waiting your entire post to find some, and as I near the end, it doesn't look like there will be any.



So, where's the proof that Anakin would beat Kyp again? All I've been seeing is shit being flung around like a monkey. You made one blanket statement, and claim Anakin will win? Lmfao. You really don't even have an argument. You just basically said "Anakin wins".

As I said, before you critize anyone about an argument, look at your own - as it is severly lacking. Actually, you didn't even make any valid points, lol.

And keep in mind, I'm not even arguing Kyp > Anakin. I'm doing as you said, which was pointing out your faulty logic, and fallacious reasonings (then again, you don't even use logic at all...). Here's the most ironic statement I've ever seen in my entire life:



LOL! Where was your proof again? Nowhere to be found. You just spaced like every sentence to make it look long. Anyways, I'd just like to say you possibly have the worst arguments ever witnessed. Worse than Numan's, in fact.



Oh my god. You claim I would spew "baseless crap"? Look at your damn post. I've debated far smarter than you, I am far more intelligent than you, and I know how to debate. This is ridiculous. An actual debater (me) against someone who doesn't even use what little braincells they have (you).

http://www.planetunreal.com/expectations/pwned.jpg

Originally posted by Advent


wasnt kyp bad with the lightsaber?
and fighting with anakin? isnt he the master of djem so who could take down some one not so good with a saber?

this isnt kyp vs anakin,

ok idk why people say kyp is bad with a saber, i need proof though.
lets say its true.

and count dooku? fining makashi and master it to its highest?
in saber combat id give it to dooku

Originally posted by ESB Vader
wasnt kyp bad with the lightsaber?
and fighting with anakin? isnt he the master of djem so who could take down some one not so good with a saber?


Uh, so what? I really could care less if Anakin is better than Kyp Durron, or the other way around. I'm just pointing out his faulty logic.

You must realize I'm not essentially arguing Kyp > Anakin (except in terms of Force power, I'd give it to Kyp). I'm arguing that he's showing no capable logic, and thus has no reason to talk shit to Sexy. His argument is utterly lacking in showing viable reasoning, and plus, he even dared to claim that I might "throw baseless crap", which could be considered one of the funniest things ever said on these forums given my history of debating, and his lack of.

same here, force powers kyp would own both dooku and anakin, able to manipulate a black hole, and kyp being 2nd strongest next to luke.

but saber wise id give it to dooku in this match,

ok so for all the saber battles, dooku wins, obvious if a master of a fencing form can beat some one not so good with a saber.

force battle, kyp owns,

lightsaber + force

hard one, kyp is superior on the force side, not on the saber,
dooku superior on the saber, not the force.

shall we call it a draw?
or give it to kyp?

I would give it to Kyp, being superior in the force tends to be a much bigger advantage then being superior with a lightsaber.

agreed, its settled, force and saber kyp wins,
saber -dooku
force -kyp

and the winner is kyp because he won the main event, saber + force

unless dooku finishes him quick hes fu*ked

Which I find unlikely. lol.

Kyp takes this, yeah.

Kyp is probably the second most powerful force user ever. He has this.

well yea >.> but normally in a saber and force duel like in the movies they dont use the force till later on,

so for kyp to cheat, in that battle, he should force something to crush dooku.

lol. Ya know, I always thought that the JEdi and Sith never use the force to its true potential. I mean, honestly, whats stopping you from just using the force to hold back someone blood from circulating? Whats stopping you from force pulling someones heart out? Or snapping their neck?

Well there is morichro and force choke...

well dooku choked obiwan in rots.
but i really dont know about dooku vs kyp in force + saber

dooku could choke kyp but as kyp breaks free he could counter it with lightning. dooku blocks with his saber, kyp charges at him, dooku again could use lightning.

very long fight, if that goes on kyp is gonna win some how

Originally posted by Adas
Well there is morichro and force choke...

I know, but thsoe still take some time... as oppsoed to just A) using the force to stop someones heart from beating

B) Stop there lungs from...moving.

C) Stop circulation

All these would actually be easier to do then choke.

u mean a force crush?

Wait, where does it say Kyp was not so good with a saber? I thought he known for his aggresiveness and his skills as a warrior.


Kyp wins in Force, Force + Saber, and I'm thinking saber as well. I don't see how one of the strongest Jedi ever is not good with a saber.

because he didnt master his technique? because people who read the books about kyp mention it?

arresiveness doesnt mean you are good, thats what happened to anakin in ep3

Hey, just back from work, hard work. Woot!
K, lets see where are we...
*Reads reply post*
hysterical
Oh awsome, Im gonna have fun with this one!

k.
1.First off, the fight I mentioned is Palpatine against those Slayers, and in case you diden't happen to actaully research your response for this properly, there were indeed trees in the scene where Kyp fights the Slayers. And...
I managed to dig around my house and I found a copy of the last NJO book, yay!
Here it is for your enjoying amusement(And mine!), Advent.

"Behind him emerged four relatively short and dark-complected Yuuzahn Vong warriors.
Han shot Leia the briefest of astonished looks and drew his blaster.
Page did the same with his rifle, but he hadn't even lifted it to firing position when it was whipped from his grip by one of the longest amphistaffs Leia had seen, and hurled through the air like a twig. Sasso was already charging the enemy weilding the amphistaff, but he diden't get three meters when the warrior leapt over him and, on landing, whirled and thrust a coufee deep into the Rodian's back.
Kyp and Leia ignited their lightsabers at the same instant.
Continuous fire from Han and Wraw had driven two of the warriors to the ground, but neither had been hit. Kyp raced for the nearest one, catching the warrior across the chest with a powerful upswing of his blade. The Yuuzahn Vong growled and rolled, but his dark, unarmored flesh showed only a shallow bloodless furrow.
Kyp whirled and brought the blade down like an axe. Evading the strike, the warrior rose to one knee and unfurled his amphistaff. The serpentlike creature elongated and wrapped itself around the hilt of his lightsaber. But Kyp wasen't about to surrender his weapon. In a virtual tug-of-war with the creature, he spun and backflipped, but to little effect. At the same time, a second amphistaff lassoed him around the waist and arms and yanked him roughly to the ground."

Continued...

"Without really thinking about it, Leia judged that Han and Kyp were in far greater jeopardy. Holding her blade at her right hip and pointed slightly downward, she moved against the warrior whose amphistaff was flinging Kyp from side to side."

-Exerpts from "The Unifying Force" By Luceno, James.
Pages. 247-248.

Basicly, from threonin Kyp actaully gets attacked by only three of the four warriors then, and is subdued and dragged away.

Yeah, so this is the guy who can take on Anakin.
Hmm, diden't see him using his near infinate power in the Force to stop those Slayers. Yeah, I got that wrong too, he wasen't beat by four. He was beat by two and then pretty much held down and beat up by a third.
Wow. Thats really...umm....nosweat

Yeah, anyway, If that Amphistaff had grabbed Anakin's lightsaber( Which it probally woulden't have been able to, since Anakin whips it around at like a hundred miles an hour,lol) He'd have probally ripped it from the Slayer's hands with one of his Force Jumps.
Remember Anakin's leap from the huge pylon when it was going down a lavafall on Mustufar?
Remember the leap was at least a hundred yards?
Can you imagine how strong his legs must be? How much explosive power they are capable of generating?
If the Slayer had grabbed Anankin's lightsaber and Anakin had jumped, either the Slayer would have lost his weapon, or his arms.


2. "As we can see, being a Dark Lord of the Sith does not grant you victory. In fact, it really means nothing. For Anakin, it meant getting burnt to a crisp in ROTS. And of course, getting half his body hacked off and strewn across Mustafar. Now, I'm honestly not sure if this is a joke point or not, but I'll address it either way - as I'm not fully sure someone can be this incompetent.

And as we see in Purge, it didn't save Darth Vader from getting his hand chopped off yet again, and almost getting killed. Dark Lord of the Sith means you'll win? Whoa. And again, I say I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but due to your sheer idiocy it wouldn't surprise me if you were being serious."

LOL, hey, another Dumb@$$ reply.
If you weren't so laughibly stupid, you'd know I was refering to Palpatine, not Anakin who was not the Dark Lord of the Sith in RotS.
So yeah, your a Dumb@$$.
"Dark Lord of the Sith means you'll win?"
Ya, retard. bangin What the hell do you think?
The best Dark Force user in the Galaxy versus a few suped up YV.
Sidious has some really great exercise. boxing

3. I understand Kyle is Battlemaster and that does give him some good credits. But realistically, RotS Anakin could have raped all seven dark Jedi. Even when he was put into his metal suit, it was stated that Jerec ony rivaled Vader, he still wasen't better than him. And thats with the suit. Without it, Jerec woulden't stand much of a chance, neither would his goons.

"Prove it. What Force powers do the PT Jedi display again? Force push? Pull? Impressive. And also provide proof to the claim that Luke's method of training is "laughable". I want an exact quote. You keep on pulling these ridiculous comments out of your ass, however, you do not give quotes to back you up. Which you should on a strong claim such as this."

How 'bout this, what Force powers did the regular NJO Jedi exhibit that was better than the PT Jedi? Nothing. I mean, a few crappy little silly things in a few of the early novels. But realistically, nothing. The PT Jedi could absorb attacks, use Battle meditation, and use the Force like it was second nature, basicly in a manner a whole lot better than the Half Ass Jedi that came later.

"We do know Tionne and the other apprentices present when Exar Kun's spirit was confronting them knew how to defend against their opponent through ancient tales. "Half ass"? My ass. "

Wow, twelve Jedi Initiates confronting the spirit of a Sith Lord.
Thats a retarded defense for this Advent, c'mon, you can do better!

Of course they're half ass. Duh. Just pick up a young Jedi Knights novel and read it if you want proof.

"In any case, even if you want to claim that most of the NJO is incompetent, that means nothing really. The top dogs of the NJO surpass a lot of other people. By your logic, I could be saying that the Jedi of Exar Kun's time are incompetent because one fully pledged Jedi was killed by a group of thugs, a Jedi Knight that is classified as exceptional (Oss Willum) was tooled by some thugs as well, and one of the more powerful Jedi masters of the era, Arca Jeth, was pwned by a droid! Now, if I used that to base an argument against Kun, you would find that it has no value pertaining to the fight. As yours doesn't either. "

Back a lil' before the Sith Wars, the Jedi Order was really just starting to become a Martial organization, all of their members for this reason weren't skilled fighters. And Jedi Master Arca Jeth was killed by a war droid with mounted weapons. Also, I think he was the only casualty of that attack if I remember correctly.
Nice try. fish


"Ataru? No. They did have three main forms, but proof they were based off Ataru?

Oh, now here is a really good one.
Ataru? Yep. Now, you want proof that they were based off Ataru?
Im going to use a wise and old-fashioned way of logical deduction, it goes somthin' like this:
"If it looks like Sh*t.
And it smells like Sh*t.
It's Sh*t."

Basicly the three forms all have identical attack and defense techniques akin to Ataru. Add to the fact that JO was made some time after Episode 1, when the new popular method of lightsaber dueling was full of acrobatics and flashy moves, it makes sense that they'd put that kind of fighting engine into the game, ne?

So, yeah, It is at least a varient of Ataru, if not the same thing.

"And what do you think Anakin's lightsaber form is? Djem So. Which is the second most aggressive form, next to Vaapad. Mace Windu even comments that Anakin used Djem So "to answer his emotions" (ROTS novel, IIRC). And we all know Anakin is a headstrong, arrogant, and angry guy.

So, *gasp* could it be that his Djem So is "aggressive and flashy"?"

Nope. Thats his Ataru tchniques coupled with his Djem So swordsmanship. From the looks of it, you don't seem to know alot about lightsaber forms, so I'll enlighten you. shifty
Anakin utilised a comination of three different lightsaber forms, Ataru Djem So and Shien. Djem So is actaully more deliberate and slow when it comes to striking, because it relies on the users brute force and utilising body weight, put behind each strike.
Anakin's swordsmanship looked flashy becomes he employed Ataru techniques into his attacks.
So, no, his Djem So is not flashy, it is agressive though.
Which, is different from Windu's form which channels fury into a perfectly tapped energy source, unlike Anakin's Djem So, which uses barely controlled rage.

"Adding to that, it also says Niman was made to suit the "modern Jedi". So, okay, I've established that Niman was the most widely practiced form of the PT. Now, I move onto the next point which is that Niman is probably one of the worst forms anyone could use."


No, Advent, Niman was actaully a very good style to use, if mastered completely it could make the practitioner a very well-rounded swordsman indeed. The little-known fact about Jango killing Trebor Coleman, was that Mandalorians are actaully trained to time their shots through the defense of a lightsaber when fighting Jedi.
He used this technique which led to the defeat of the Jedi Master.

"Niman is the "diplomat's Form" (Insider), and actually doesn't focus on combat, instead it makes room for political attributes. So, I fail to see how that's more impressive and stunning than the New Jedi Order's form."

You fail to see it?
At least the Jedi using Niman actaully know how to swing a lightsaber instead of acting like they're little leaguers.

"Now, you're going to tell me that the New Jedi Order is weak with sabers? Get a grip. "

Ya, you retard. You get a grip, your the one who dosen't even know what he's talking about. toot

"Prove it. Give me an actual quote that says "Kyp aimlessly swung his saber around". "

Read above, El Morono.


"Slightly? It would've been a mass slaughter. NJO Luke had trouble taking down Shimmra. How can the likes of the most powerful Jedi of that era, Yoda, dream of doing that?"

Very carefully. Lol, no seriously, Shimmura was kind of retarded, if the Grandmaster of the Jedi Order went up against him, Yoda would emberess him. I mean, he was a tall YV with a big amphistaff.
Yoda would dodge his attacks and slice him open like a Thanksgiving Day turkey.
stretcher Poor Shimmura...

BTW, I liked your little book clippings, but I noticed somthing.
The Republic Army went up against Droidekas(Example). Even if groups of YV warriors went up against one of those, they would get holed and dropped. Seeing as how the fledgeling Republic Army was able to regroup and survive that kind of assault, I think it speaks for the fact that they'd have a fair chance against the YV.
Your clippings about their aftermath against the CIS say nothing about how the YV would defeat them.

"Now, even with two hundred thousand clones barely any Jedi survived, and all Niman users died. And as well, the Clone troopers lost thousands. We're talking about Yuuzhan Vong. "

Well, all the Niman users from Coruscant Temple died, or most anyway, they diden't all die out.

I'd be willing to bet only about like ten Jedi out of the entire era could even defeat more than one. We know the Niman users were practically wiped out at Geonosis alone, how are the Jedi and Republic forces, pre-Blockade going to stop the Vong? Who's armor is resistant to lightsabers, are unable to be affected by the Force (or highly resistant I should say), and have far superior weaponry?"

Actaully, I'd say the Jedi of the preqel era would be a decent match for the Vong. We are talking about fully and classically trained Jedi here.
Good point about the space battles, the Vong would probally take all of those, unless the Republic scientists came up with somthing.
The Jedi could find soft spots between the armour to hit, and the YV are immune to direct attacks from the Force, but if a Jedi, say, picked up an object with the Force and hurled it at them, it could still kill the Vong.
Kinda like the example with Dark Lord Sidious ripping a tree up and hurling it at a Slayer, crushing him to death. That kinda thing.

"The PT era would belong to the Yuuzhan Vong, as would everything that followed if we let it up to the PT forces. We also do know that no one was prepared for a war, do you recall that Binks had to gi. The Republic and Jedi forces wouldn't even know what hit them. And then, of course, trying to attack back would be futile in most cases."

Hmm, perhaps, but you never know. By the end of the Clone Wars against the CIS, the unprepared Republic Army was close to beating them. You never know, the PT armies had more advanced weaponry, we don't know exactly how it would have been utilised.

"So, we're talking about the Ancient Sith? Um, what exactly is your point, and how does it correlate to your argument? For one, the Sith of old have nothing to do with the PT, as the PT Jedi and Republic would be slaughtered horribly. It is noted, exactly, that they had to give "emergency powers" to Sidious as we know to announce the army on Kamino, they were not prepared for a war, and certainly not at all prior to the Blockade of Naboo. The Republic needed the clones or else they would've lost against the casual Separatist armies, who are not resistant to Force attacks, nor to a lightsaber."

True. Here's how it correlates.
The ancient Sith would have defeated the Vong, or at least stood a decent chance of doing so.
Their Sith Knights and Lords were all expertly trained for brutal warefare, so in a direct battle, a Sith Knight could take perhaps at least three YV, mabye more, mabye less. But its a nice estimate.
The Sith would have won the space battles if they could locate the YV armada and then have either Naga Sadow, or Exar Kun use the Force to ignite the star of the system its in, or a planet its next to, or hell, ignite the fleet. It would cripple most of the ships and scatter them.
Plus, I'd love to see Shimmura take on Marka Ragnos, assuming he's in this scenario as well.
Ragnos would literally make Shimurra his F*ck Slave.

Ahem *cough* *cough*
Anyway, yes Advent, Anakin does kick Kyp's rear end.

Anakin. Wins.

And Kyp?

Well...
hang

rip

nopity

Originally posted by Advent
Uh, so what? I really could care less if Anakin is better than Kyp Durron, or the other way around. I'm just pointing out his faulty logic.

You must realize I'm not essentially arguing Kyp > Anakin (except in terms of Force power, I'd give it to Kyp). I'm arguing that he's showing no capable logic, and thus has no reason to talk shit to Sexy. His argument is utterly lacking in showing viable reasoning, and plus, he even dared to claim that I might "throw baseless crap", which could be considered one of the funniest things ever said on these forums given my history of debating, and his lack of.


I can talk shit to your buttbuddy If I want. vampire
Your just an ifeminine retard that turns his nose up at everybody he dosen't consider to be worthy of reading his posts.
You just call everyone you don't like a fanboy.
The truth is that your a fanboy, you are your own fanboy.

"he even dared to claim that I might "throw baseless crap", "

Yeah, thats right geekoid, now what are you gonna do about it?
Keep acting like a girl and just write me back a witty remark?
You better do somthing else fast, 'cause Im not impressed, I've seen wimps like Darth Sexy say better things to me.
And I don't give a flying flip about your "history of debating", that dosen't make you any better than anyone else here.

Mabye you'd better pull your head out of Darth Sexy's rear end.
Then you'd be able to really hear what others have to say.
'Till then, all you got is tunnel vision. devil

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
No, Advent, Niman was actaully a very good style to use, if mastered completely it could make the practitioner a very well-rounded swordsman indeed. The little-known fact about Jango killing Trebor Coleman, was that Mandalorians are actaully trained to time their shots through the defense of a lightsaber when fighting Jedi.
He used this technique which led to the defeat of the Jedi Master.

What does Jango Fett have to do with the fact that Niman is one of the worst - if not the worst form of lightsaber combat?

Directly from Star Wars Insider, Issue 62:

"in keeping with the Jedi quest to achieve true harmony and justice without resorting to the rule of power." Just to set the standard, Niman practitioners don't believe in power conquers all. They believe in politics, and discussion. Now, onto the next four quotes that render your little "point" utterly invalid.

"It is considered the "diplomat's Form" because it is less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy, and negotiation" Proving that Niman is the "diplomat's Form" because it does not focus on combat, but mainly political attributes. From this we can gauge that the most widely practiced form is hardly effective in combat situations.

"Form VI well suits the modern Jedi's role in the galaxy, in which a Knight overly trained in martial combat might be at a loss to resolve a complex political conflict between star systems" This quote provides even more evidence that Niman does not focus on combat, and it's core principles revolve around politics. It's even stated that being a martial, warrior Jedi isn't even what Niman is about. So, do tell, how is a form that doesn't believe in power, nor combative skill, going to be actually better than forms that do practice combat?

"However, full masters of other Forms sometimes consider Form VI to be insufficient" Proving other masters do not think Niman is effective, so why - pray tell - do you? What makes Niman better than the forms of the NJO? The fact it doesn't focus on combat? Or the fact it is less intensive in its disciplines?

"In an increasingly dangerous galaxy, the "diplomat's Form" might not be enough against serious combat dangers. All the Form VI Jedi Knights who fight on Geonosis die in the arena battle." This is just adding to the fact that Niman can usually come up short, as is the case, against an actual threat. We do know that Niman isn't a very combative form, because it doesn't focus on combat.

And we do know that all Niman users at Geonosis died. Not a single one lived. Not just Coleman Trebor. Unless Jango Fett took out each and every Niman user, LOL! Don't you ever tire of being wrong?

The rest I'll address later, I just had to completely own you on this point. And please, if you do ever respond again, use the quote feature - it's there for a reason. Your post looks like a giant wall o' text with a few bricks missing.

'The rest I'll address later, I just had to completely own you on this point. And please, if you do ever respond again, use the quote feature - it's there for a reason. Your post looks like a giant wall o' text with a few bricks missing.'

I agree. Starbuck, use the quote feature you dumbass.

Lol, that issue of Star Wars Insider is supposed to have errors on it.

Great comeback btw, I feel like Im talking to a first grader.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
'The rest I'll address later, I just had to completely own you on this point. And please, if you do ever respond again, use the quote feature - it's there for a reason. Your post looks like a giant wall o' text with a few bricks missing.'

I agree. Starbuck, use the quote feature you dumbass.

Hey, how's that any way to talk to the guy who helped you out?
I'd have good mind to give a ya a good one across the face.
Show some manners kid, you want me as a friend, not an enemy.

Now, about that beer...cheers
drunk

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Hey, how's that any way to talk to the guy who helped you out?
I'd have good mind to give a good one across the face.
Show some manners kid, you want me as a friend, not an enemy.

Now, about that beer...cheers
drunk

So you're using the quote feature, better.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Lol, that issue of Star Wars Insider is supposed to have errors on it.

Great comeback btw, I feel like Im talking to a first grader.

That's your response? Show me where it has errors in its description of the forms. My rebuttal to your Niman point put yours to sleep, Starbuck. Show viable evidence that its description of forms are incorrect. I'd say it's not given they are dead on with every other description.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
So you're using the quote feature, better.

Ya, now drink *hic* yer beer.

drunk

*passes out*

Originally posted by Advent
That's your response? Show me where it has errors in its description of the forms. My rebuttal to your Niman point put yours to sleep, Starbuck. Show viable evidence that its description of forms are incorrect. I'd say it's not given they are dead on with every other description.


Lol, first off, your my B*tch.
Second, Im too lazy right now. I just spent twelve hours working(which I doubt you do) and I got a bruski in my hand, and I plan on enjoyin' it.
I remebered someone else making a big deal about that issue having tons of errors on it, like Exar Kun being a Makashi user and such.
Check around, Im sure you'll find the source.
That is, if its not too hard for you...

Originally posted by Advent
That's your response? Show me where it has errors in its description of the forms. My rebuttal to your Niman point put yours to sleep, Starbuck. Show viable evidence that its description of forms are incorrect. I'd say it's not given they are dead on with every other description.

Advent, Starbuck has spent years researching these forms. I think he knows his stuff, thanks.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
Advent, Starbuck has spent years researching these forms. I think he knows his stuff, thanks.

Ya, so do I, as you well know.
Yer welcome kid.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Lol, first off, your my B*tch.
Second, Im too lazy right now. I just spent twelve hours working(which I doubt you do) and I got a bruski in my hand, and I plan on enjoyin' it.
I remebered someone else making a big deal about that issue having tons of errors on it, like Exar Kun being a Makashi user and such.
Check around, Im sure you'll find the source.
That is, if its not too hard for you...

As I said, descriptions. Not who uses what, and so on. And where are these "errors". In case you didn't know, "errors" is plural. Unless you can find a contradictory source, then my point still stands. Why? In the TPM novelization, for example, it says Maul does a backflip during his fight with Qui-Gon Jinn, he obviously didn't do that in the actual movie. So, am I going to assume other various quotes are incorrect, or the entire thing is incorrect itself because of one thing? No, I'm not.

You have no contradictory evidence on the description of Niman, and because of that - my point stands, and yours - of course - fails.

Originally posted by Advent
As I said, descriptions. Not who uses what, and so on. And where are these "errors". In case you didn't know, "errors" is plural. Unless you can find a contradictory source, then my point still stands. Why? In the TPM novelization, for example, it says Maul does a backflip during his fight with Qui-Gon Jinn, he obviously didn't do that in the actual movie. So, am I going to assume other various quotes are incorrect, or the entire thing is incorrect itself because of one thing? No, I'm not.

You have no contradictory evidence on the description of Niman, and because of that - my point stands, and yours - of course - fails.

Lol, is there ever a time when you don't talk like a machine?

Could ya please expand on what I got wrong about Niman?

Thanks Adventa

blow

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
3. I understand Kyle is Battlemaster and that does give him some good credits. But realistically, RotS Anakin could have raped all seven dark Jedi. Even when he was put into his metal suit, it was stated that Jerec ony rivaled Vader, he still wasen't better than him. And thats with the suit. Without it, Jerec woulden't stand much of a chance, neither would his goons.

Really? Despite the fact Jerec, when he gets the power of the Valley of the Jedi is described as:

"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

And the omniscient narrator does state the following:

"...he was about to become the most powerful individual in the civilized worlds no, in the universe."

Jerec was able to trigger explosions by just a wave of his hand: "Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion" . He was able to harness the power of the Force and turn it into a beam: "The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and hurled the construct at Kyle's chest. The blast threw the Rebel backward onto the loading ramp. He staggered and had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship.". Now, rivaling Vader? Uh, you do realize that the gap between post-suit Vader and pre-suit Vader isn't vast in the least bit. So how, pray tell, will Jerec not stand a chance? Some would even argue OT Vader > ROTS Anakin given the fact his knowledge and power with the Darkside of the Force has vastly improved.



Yes, because all PT Jedi could absorb attacks, right? Prove it. Because all PT Jedi used Battle meditation, right? Prove it.

And again, the fact of the matter is - that it doesn't matter whatsoever because of the fact you can be the strongest in a weaker era, yet still be more powerful than the strongest of a more powerful era. Case in point: NJO Luke > Yoda.



What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish? You keep saying this and that is "retarded", except you provide no quotes and just unsubstantiated bullshit. So, where's the quotes they're "half ass" Jedi, and how does this correlate to Kyp Durron? Quit making claims if you have no intention of backing them up. Burden of proof is on you, or else logical fallacy.



Really?

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5007/atimewhereba0.th.jpg

"A time where Jedi are numerous and strong", opening narration. But, I thought they weren't "skilled"? QED, newb. And this was shortly before the Sith Wars. So, I've proven your a liar. Good.



Okay? Because you can positively identify attacks from Ataru to the three lightsaber forms, right? Oh wait, you can't. In any case, logical fallacy. Just because it looks like, not that you even can prove that, doesn't mean it is.



Oh, really? Where's your proof for that again? Show me where they have "identical attacks", and "defense techniques"? Lmfao. This is too easy. You're claiming they have "identical attacks", but where's this at again?



So now you're using Jedi Outcast as source for your argument? You're using game mechanics? Show me actual evidence, as in a direct narration quote. Jedi Outcast is set years after TPM. So what if it came out around the same time? That doesn't mean it's based off Ataru when you give no proof whatsoever aside from gameplay.

And I could just as easily say they were using Maul's form of Juyo given his extreme acrobatics demonstrated. So your point collapses due to lack of viable proof.



You're using video game movements as basis for your argument. We do know that lightsaber combat in games is far from canon, or suitable evidence due to the fact every form in KOTOR looks exactly alike.



Anakin's swordsmanship looks flashy, but it's not? Contradiction much? Anakin's form is aggressive, it is flashy. Even if it's a variant - that doesn't mean you can disregard the original point which was:

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Most Jedi basicly utilised an aggressive and flashy form of Ataru that came in three varients or so.

So, if Anakin's looks flashy (and as you said, "if it looks like, blah like, it is" and it is aggressive - you're using a double standards, which means a logical fallacy. And, like I said, using your own quote of "if it looks like, smells like, it is" (despite this being a fallacy in itself) - Anakin uses a flashy and aggressive form. So, of course, you defeated your own point by admitting it is flashy, and implying heavily that the Jedi of the NJO suck because they use an "aggressive and flashy" form.



What, exactly, does this have to do with the fact that Anakin's form of Djem So is the second most aggressive form there is?

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Ya, so do I, as you well know.
Yer welcome kid.

You do, of course, realize Nebaris was kidding, right? Considering the fact you're a newb here. And also the fact you provide no actual proof aside from "he can do it because I say so".

And what you were wrong when addressing Niman? That it is a very good style to use, and that you implied it's better than the forms of the NJO. I proved that it is not a combative form, and is "insufficient", and the fact it's suited for diplomat's, and it doesn't do well against growing danger. So, as you see, you're wrong. Do you need help on your reading comprehension?

And also, I see the entire thing about the Yuuzhan Vong vs. the Jedi completely flew over your head. Had it not been for the Clone Army, the Jedi would be dead. The fact you stated "before the blockade of Naboo" means that the Clone Army wasn't even created yet. So, how are the Jedi - who would've died had it not been for the "emergency powers" granted to unleash the Clone Army - going to have a hope of survival against the Yuuzhan Vong?

"Oh, really? Where's your proof for that again? Show me where they have "identical attacks", and "defense techniques"? Lmfao. This is too easy. You're claiming they have "identical attacks", but where's this at again?"

hysterical

Oh Adventa, you must be on your period again...

FYI, Im not a noob, Im a banned user.

All the stuff I said was true, even if you throw a lil' temper tantrum like the girl you are and say it isen't.

"Anakin's swordsmanship looks flashy, but it's not? Contradiction much?"

His Djem So isen't, his Ataru, naturally, is.

Heh, Contradiction much? You sound like a valley girl. Are you a mall rat in your spare time?
Like, totally? tomato

LOL!

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
All the stuff I said was true, even if you throw a lil' temper tantrum like the girl you are and say it isen't.

Despite the fact I outright proved you were lying with a scan? Lol. You were saying?



Obviously the entire point like, totally flew over your head. Let's see, you said Anakin uses a variant combining Shien, Ataru, and Djem So, ergo Anakin's "form of Djem So" is just that. He doesn't use Ataru to duel, as in he doesn't switch from Ataru to Djem So. If anything, like you said, only combines it making it a unique form. And he definitely doesn't use Shien to duel either (except with Dooku, in which he used it as a ploy). So, in essence, the "flashy moves" are a part of his form if he combines them. Now you're just contradicting yourself.

You talk about "flashy". Are you saying Anakin's uses of his form on Mustafar weren't "flashy"? Considering he ended up spinning his saber around for like ten seconds for no reason.



"Mall rat"? Sorry, I don't associate with vermin in terms of being colleagues. Only deal with them on this forum (you). And "valley girl"? Like, what do you mean? I am so totally not a "Valley girl".

Jeeze, It feels as if Im arguing with my Ex all over again, lol! george

LOL! You said totally! You are a valley girl, I knew it!
Hey, are you really a chick or somthing?

Ya, he's flashy, but not with Djem So alone. beer

Wow. I truly am surprised any female would actually want to associate with an utter incompetent, arrogant clown such as yourself. However, these things happen - and it's no surprise she's now your "Ex". Also, reported for being a sock.

Kyp wins because he like the rest of the NJO (aka shitty writing) crew has been inbuned with the powers of crappy ass writing and overpowering which Anakin cannot hope to stand against.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Originally posted by Advent
Wow. I truly am surprised any female would actually want to associate with an utter incompetent, arrogant clown such as yourself. However, these things happen - and it's no surprise she's now your "Ex". Also, reported for being a sock.

Ya. Your a chick. smoke

I reported you for being a Sock too. And a boot for that matter.