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Kurse has put down Thor and Beta Ray Bill and Hulk has had great showings against Thor and he beat Gladiator in a fight who wins

Originally posted by golem370
Kurse has put down Thor and Beta Ray Bill and Hulk has had great showings against Thor and he beat Gladiator in a fight who wins when did hulk beat glads?

http://s64.photobucket.com/images/search/Hulk%20vs%20Gladiator/

Not all of the pics but some of them

Originally posted by galan7777777
when did hulk beat glads?

on a distant planet were no man has ever been before.

i dont no actually when did it happen

boy idk good fight. Kurse is a tank and Hulk is just a monster.
If this fight lasts for a while I say Hulk wins because of his rage

Kurse wins. His strength is so high, unless Hulk starts at 4 X Thor, Kurse ends it fast.
Of course, if Hulk can survive long enough to surpass Kurse, he can win, unless we find out more about Kurse. Who knows. Maybe Beyonder permanently empowered Kurse to multiply in power everytime he faces a foe that surpasses his own power.

hulk

Kurse wins.

Kurse.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Kurse wins. His strength is so high, unless Hulk starts at 4 X Thor, Kurse ends it fast.
Of course, if Hulk can survive long enough to surpass Kurse, he can win, unless we find out more about Kurse. Who knows. Maybe Beyonder permanently empowered Kurse to multiply in power everytime he faces a foe that surpasses his own power.


No the Beyonder made him to surpass Thor in strength alone, but the problem is that Thor in warriors madness can still surpass Kurse. Mindless Hulk split Onslaught out of that suit, and took on all of the Avengers. Hercules was in it, and had help from Namor, Iron Man, Doc Samson, Wonder Man, and that was before the rest of the Avenger showed up in force. He was still unable to be stopped. The crazy part about that fight, is that the Hulk was dying, and still wrecking both teams.

Originally posted by galan7777777
when did hulk beat glads?

Check the respect section. not only did he beat him, he nearly killed him. Again the crazy part about that battle was the Hulk was dying when he did that to Gladiator.


Kurse would get destroyed, nothing registered on the Mindless Hulk.

Hulk stomps.

Slightest Edge To Mindless Hulk

Big edge to Mindless Hulk.

Originally posted by TheHulk
Slightest Edge To Mindless Hulk

Yeah for the first 20 minutes, but after that it will all be Hulk. Kurse is 4x Thor strength base, not 4x Thor powers. Thor can also blow right past Kurse's strength level, by entering warriors madness. He likely never did because that would make for a very poor story, and at the time of his power-up Kurse was meant to as much of a nemesis to Thor, as Sabretooth is to Wolverine, or Venom was to Spiderman. PIS is all it ever was.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah for the first 20 minutes, but after that it will all be Hulk. Kurse is 4x Thor strength base, not 4x Thor powers. Thor can also blow right past Kurse's strength level, by entering warriors madness. He likely never did because that would make for a very poor story, and at the time of his power-up Kurse was meant to as much of a nemesis to Thor, as Sabretooth is to Wolverine, or Venom was to Spiderman. PIS is all it ever was. Well if you look at it that way...............

lol

right now i'm in a serious dilemma here, should i tell all the hulk voters that kurse is actually immune to physical harm or should i let them continue this circus

Originally posted by blue_beast
right now i'm in a serious dilemma here, should i tell all the hulk voters that kurse is actually immune to physical harm or should i let them continue this circus

Kurse is not immune to physical harm, he just has an incredibly high threshold for it. You think that he wouldn't feel a hit capable of ripping through a dimension? Mindless Hulk would also never be able to be put down, and he would just continue to increase in strength until Thor x4 strength would mean nothing to him. Do we ignore the Hulk's power set, and Kurse's vulnerability to iron?

Originally posted by Stoic
Kurse is not immune to physical harm, he just has an incredibly high threshold for it. You think that he wouldn't feel a hit capable of ripping through a dimension? Mindless Hulk would also never be able to be put down, and he would just continue to increase in strength until Thor x4 strength would mean nothing to him. Do we ignore the Hulk's power set, and Kurse's vulnerability to iron?

what you are doing here is straight up lying, ignoring facts and twisting them to your liking, Kurse is immune to physical harm its a fact you cant harm him physically, he has a vulnerability to iron and thats why thor was able to even do something and yet it still wasnt enough because kurse just crushed him every time, therefor vulnerability to iron doesnt mean he is weaker when hit by iron it just means it can hurt him.

how is iron relevant in this fight? unless Hulk starts the fight with an iron Pipe in his hand i dont see the point

why should hulk be able to hurt him physically when he is immune to physical harm? are you trying to not make sense on purpose?

actually he can and will put hulk down he is x4 stronger than thor its more then enought to just break hulks neck FTW or beat the living hell out of him which is based on the showings of averege Thor dealing physically with Hulk.

oh again with this he will just increase his strength during the fight ? show me on pannel feats of hulk during a fight becoming stronger and overpower his opponent just like that? if that was the case hulk wouldnt go hours for hours fighting Thor or wendigo for so long he would just get madder and overpower them right? so why is he stalemating Thor after so many hours of fighting even with the fact they were also equels at the beginning? why didnt his strength increased? why didnt he overpower him?

all this mute because Hulk is just a physical brick who goes up against someone who is immune to physical harm, the guy who opened this thread is a geneious because this thread is once again another proof that Hulk fanboys dont know comics and will blindly say "Hulk Winz" without even putting a minimal thinking into it

LOL

Kurse wins .

Originally posted by blue_beast
what you are doing here is straight up lying, ignoring facts and twisting them to your liking, Kurse is immune to physical harm its a fact you cant harm him physically, he has a vulnerability to iron and thats why thor was able to even do something and yet it still wasnt enough because kurse just crushed him every time, therefor vulnerability to iron doesnt mean he is weaker when hit by iron it just means it can hurt him.

how is iron relevant in this fight? unless Hulk starts the fight with an iron Pipe in his hand i dont see the point

why should hulk be able to hurt him physically when he is immune to physical harm? are you trying to not make sense on purpose?

actually he can and will put hulk down he is x4 stronger than thor its more then enought to just break hulks neck FTW or beat the living hell out of him which is based on the showings of averege Thor dealing physically with Hulk.

oh again with this he will just increase his strength during the fight ? show me on pannel feats of hulk during a fight becoming stronger and overpower his opponent just like that? if that was the case hulk wouldnt go hours for hours fighting Thor or wendigo for so long he would just get madder and overpower them right? so why is he stalemating Thor after so many hours of fighting even with the fact they were also equels at the beginning? why didnt his strength increased? why didnt he overpower him?

all this mute because Hulk is just a physical brick who goes up against someone who is immune to physical harm, the guy who opened this thread is a geneious because this thread is once again another proof that Hulk fanboys dont know comics and will blindly say "Hulk Winz" without even putting a minimal thinking into it um... yoinks. taz

Originally posted by blue_beast
what you are doing here is straight up lying, ignoring facts and twisting them to your liking, Kurse is immune to physical harm its a fact you cant harm him physically, he has a vulnerability to iron and thats why thor was able to even do something and yet it still wasnt enough because kurse just crushed him every time, therefor vulnerability to iron doesnt mean he is weaker when hit by iron it just means it can hurt him.

how is iron relevant in this fight? unless Hulk starts the fight with an iron Pipe in his hand i dont see the point

why should hulk be able to hurt him physically when he is immune to physical harm? are you trying to not make sense on purpose?

actually he can and will put hulk down he is x4 stronger than thor its more then enought to just break hulks neck FTW or beat the living hell out of him which is based on the showings of averege Thor dealing physically with Hulk.

oh again with this he will just increase his strength during the fight ? show me on pannel feats of hulk during a fight becoming stronger and overpower his opponent just like that? if that was the case hulk wouldnt go hours for hours fighting Thor or wendigo for so long he would just get madder and overpower them right? so why is he stalemating Thor after so many hours of fighting even with the fact they were also equels at the beginning? why didnt his strength increased? why didnt he overpower him?

all this mute because Hulk is just a physical brick who goes up against someone who is immune to physical harm, the guy who opened this thread is a geneious because this thread is once again another proof that Hulk fanboys dont know comics and will blindly say "Hulk Winz" without even putting a minimal thinking into it


Writers simply chose to ignore the Hulk's power set. This is a forum battle. Your argument ignores the Hulk's powers, and places it in the PIS category. Thor should have only been able to match the Hulk's strength increase to a certain amount of time (you should know this). We recently saw how the Hulk actually does increase in power. Do you want to ignore that as well?

The real question should not be whether I am trying to not make sense, the question is why are you attempting to ignore a characters power profile?

If Kurse was unable to be hurt, how was he rendered unconscious? Energizer, a member of Power Pack, absorbed energy from both Thor's and Beta Ray Bill's enchanted hammers and then fired a tremendously powerful ball of energy at Kurse, which rendered him unconscious <--- Does this in any way resemble not being able to be hurt?

Comics are filled with PIS and CIS, but in a forum match does this mean that we should ignore the characters power set because the writers decided to ignore them for the purpose of plot? No. Trust me I see your point, but consider the Hulk's power set, and the fact that nothing was capable of putting him down in his mindless state. Has the Hulk ever shifted the odds in his favor when other characters had him clearly beat? You would be right about Kurse beating the hell out of the Hulk, and that beating going unanswered, if he were the Rhino, or some other character who does not increase in power, but it's not.

You can only say that Kurse wins this by a margin of 50%, but encroaching on any more than this is just you ignoring the Hulk's powers, and ability to heal, and grow stronger as the battle rages. Mindless Hulk did not have the restraint that the Hulk had when Banner was on board, he would not hold back.

No matter how strong Kurse is, the Hulk can and would become stronger. Marvel as you seem so hinged on quoting says that the Hulk is the strongest one there is. They never said that Kurse was the strongest one there is. Double standards can be a slippery slope at times.

Originally posted by Stoic
Writers simply chose to ignore the Hulk's power set. This is a forum battle. Your argument ignores the Hulk's powers, and places it in the PIS category. Thor should have only been able to match the Hulk's strength increase to a certain amount of time (you should know this). We recently saw how the Hulk actually does increase in power. Do you want to ignore that as well?

The real question should not be whether I am trying to not make sense, the question is why are you attempting to ignore a characters power profile?

If Kurse was unable to be hurt, how was he rendered unconscious? Energizer, a member of Power Pack, absorbed energy from both Thor's and Beta Ray Bill's enchanted hammers and then fired a tremendously powerful ball of energy at Kurse, which rendered him unconscious <--- Does this in any way resemble not being able to be hurt?

Comics are filled with PIS and CIS, but in a forum match does this mean that we should ignore the characters power set because the writers decided to ignore them for the purpose of plot? No. Trust me I see your point, but consider the Hulk's power set, and the fact that nothing was capable of putting him down in his mindless state. Has the Hulk ever shifted the odds in his favor when other characters had him clearly beat? You would be right about Kurse beating the hell out of the Hulk, and that beating going unanswered, if he were the Rhino, or some other character who does not increase in power, but it's not.

You can only say that Kurse wins this by a margin of 50%, but encroaching on any more than this is just you ignoring the Hulk's powers, and ability to heal, and grow stronger as the battle rages. Mindless Hulk did not have the restraint that the Hulk had when Banner was on board, he would not hold back.

No matter how strong Kurse is, the Hulk can and would become stronger. Marvel as you seem so hinged on quoting says that the Hulk is the strongest one there is. They never said that Kurse was the strongest one there is. Double standards can be a slippery slope at times. So wait youre comparing ALL the energy from both Thor and Bills hammers combined to a Punch not energy a attack from Hulk

Originally posted by Nihilist
So wait youre comparing ALL the energy from both Thor and Bills hammers combined to a Punch not energy a attack from Hulk


The Hulk's punches are energy. Kinetic energy, but energy all the same. His ability to punch through dimensional barriers, is as quantifiable as the energy burst that put Valgoth Algrim down. So yes I am comparing a punch to it.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Hulk's punches are energy. Kinetic energy, but energy all the same. His ability to punch through dimensional barriers, is as quantifiable as the energy burst that put Valgoth Algrim down. So yes I am comparing a punch to it.

So a punch from Mindless Hulk is equal to the power of Mjolnir + Stormbreaker being forcibly discharged?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So a punch from Mindless Hulk is equal to the power of Mjolnir + Stormbreaker being forcibly discharged?


Why the heck not? Is there a limit to how hard the Hulk can punch? Has there ever been a limit to how hard he can punch? Has he ever reached a point that he can no longer continue ramping up in terms of strength? The same Beyonder that gave Algrim his extra power said that the Hulk was an infinite power. Algrim wasn't given infinite power, just a very strong power base. To be honest, if Kurse has the ability to put the Midless Hulk down right away would be his only means of winning, but the longer a battle between these two lasted, the more obvious that it would be that the Hulk would be the dominant combatant. Did you read HOTM? If so why would you question whether or not the Hulk lacked the power to affect Algrim?

My previous post was to bring this seemingly invincible character to the light, and show that it is possible to hurt him. Which I did.

Originally posted by Stoic
Why the heck not? Is there a limit to how hard the Hulk can punch? Has there ever been a limit to how hard he can punch? Has he ever reached a point that he can no longer continue ramping up in terms of strength? The same Beyonder that gave Algrim his extra power said that the Hulk was an infinite power. Algrim wasn't given infinite power, just a very strong power base. To be honest, if Kurse has the ability to put the Midless Hulk down right away would be his only means of winning, but the longer a battle between these two lasted, the more obvious that it would be that the Hulk would be the dominant combatant. Did you read HOTM? If so why would you question whether or not the Hulk lacked the power to affect Algrim?

You are aware that two hammers clashing together was powerful enough to effect every plane of reality, right? Hell, Mjolnir + Thunderstrike + Future! Mjolnir + Stormbreaker have the collective power to effect the entire multiverse.

So, no, I don't think Mindless Hulk has ever displayed anything close to that level of power.

Can he hurt Kurse? Sure, he probably would eventually. But it's more likely that Kurse beats the crap out of him considering how they both fare against Thor, a common foe.

Mindless Hulk appears to be stronger imo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You are aware that two hammers clashing together was powerful enough to effect every plane of reality, right? Hell, Mjolnir + Thunderstrike + Future! Mjolnir + Stormbreaker have the collective power to effect the entire multiverse.

So, no, I don't think Mindless Hulk has ever displayed anything close to that level of power.

Can he hurt Kurse? Sure, he probably would eventually. But it's more likely that Kurse beats the crap out of him considering how they both fare against Thor, a common foe.


I'll go half way with you, because I can accept that certain characters can beat others. If Kurse takes him out within the first 5 minutes, then he wins, but anything beyond that makes him winning highly unlikely. It was the Mindless hulk persona that flattened Onslaught, and Onslaught was written to be a Juggernaut buster. You can't ignore one thing, and give credit to another. The Hulk broke into a magical dimensional barrier, that was said to be inpenetrable. Is Kurse tougher than the stuff that binds dimensions? I'm trying to look at the entire picture, and the Hulk is simply one of those characters like Superman, He-Man, Lobo, and Thor in that when the plot demands, they rise to the occasion. Kurse isn't, he's just a very strong character, with a cap on his strength, and durability.

Thor has only fought Mindless Hulk once and he didn't seem anywhere close to putting him down. Mindless was pretty uber as was Kurse.

Kurse would IMO. I just see him at a league above guy's like Hulk, Thor, Bill. Not saying he cant be beat , but it would take more than just 1 of those guy's mentioned.

Originally posted by Don Corleone
Kurse would IMO. I just see him at a league above guy's like Hulk, Thor, Bill. Not saying he cant be beat , but it would take more than just 1 of those guy's mentioned.


not in a physical scrimmage. Kurse is as brick like as they come, and he would be entering the Hulk's domain. You have to ask yourself if you believe that the Hulk could overcome Kurse's level of strength. Thor in Warrior's Madness can surpass it, as he would achieve x10 base, whereas Kurse is only at x4.

So if the Hulk surpasses even Thor at x10 how well would Kurse do against a force that was far greater than his own? I proved that Kurse is not truly invulnerable, and iron is not the only thing that can hurt him. just remember one thing, Mindless hulk does not hold back, and outside of plot this means that he would enter WB mode.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Thor has only fought Mindless Hulk once and he didn't seem anywhere close to putting him down. Mindless was pretty uber as was Kurse. No, he wasn't.

hulk has literally made him self 2 times stronger by getting twice as mad and stomped an abomination who was amped to twice hulks strength.

hulk wins here

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
hulk has literally made him self 2 times stronger by getting twice as mad and stomped an abomination who was amped to twice hulks strength.

hulk wins here

Yep, and it didn't take him more than 5 minutes to do it. Mindless Hulk is something completely different, and ramps up very quickly. I'm just having my doubts that Kurse would be able to put him down before he got completely out of hand.

Stoic is right MH wins this!!!!!

Originally posted by Stoic
The Hulk's punches are energy. Kinetic energy, but energy all the same. His ability to punch through dimensional barriers, is as quantifiable as the energy burst that put Valgoth Algrim down. So yes I am comparing a punch to it. Seriously, facepalm

Hulkie Boy gets beat up.. again.

4x Thor is powerful, but not insurmountable. Mindless Hulk wears his @$$ out.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he wasn't.
?

Originally posted by The Sorrow
?

It's the stress of being a staunch Thanos supporter. Quan has TMS.

Originally posted by Stoic
Writers simply chose to ignore the Hulk's power set. This is a forum battle. Your argument ignores the Hulk's powers, and places it in the PIS category. Thor should have only been able to match the Hulk's strength increase to a certain amount of time (you should know this). We recently saw how the Hulk actually does increase in power. Do you want to ignore that as well?

The real question should not be whether I am trying to not make sense, the question is why are you attempting to ignore a characters power profile?

If Kurse was unable to be hurt, how was he rendered unconscious? Energizer, a member of Power Pack, absorbed energy from both Thor's and Beta Ray Bill's enchanted hammers and then fired a tremendously powerful ball of energy at Kurse, which rendered him unconscious <--- Does this in any way resemble not being able to be hurt?

Comics are filled with PIS and CIS, but in a forum match does this mean that we should ignore the characters power set because the writers decided to ignore them for the purpose of plot? No. Trust me I see your point, but consider the Hulk's power set, and the fact that nothing was capable of putting him down in his mindless state. Has the Hulk ever shifted the odds in his favor when other characters had him clearly beat? You would be right about Kurse beating the hell out of the Hulk, and that beating going unanswered, if he were the Rhino, or some other character who does not increase in power, but it's not.

You can only say that Kurse wins this by a margin of 50%, but encroaching on any more than this is just you ignoring the Hulk's powers, and ability to heal, and grow stronger as the battle rages. Mindless Hulk did not have the restraint that the Hulk had when Banner was on board, he would not hold back.

No matter how strong Kurse is, the Hulk can and would become stronger. Marvel as you seem so hinged on quoting says that the Hulk is the strongest one there is. They never said that Kurse was the strongest one there is. Double standards can be a slippery slope at times.

oh so now its the writers fault? really? i get it when ever you cant present something to back up your claim simply blame on the writers for not writing it down the way you want it to be got it.

the thing is while hulk potentially can get stronger with his anger the fact is he cant just get madder and madder because there is a limit to anger, if someone walks towards you in the streed and spit on you ok? you will get pissed as hell and start to trash that guy but thats the maddest you get in that fight, you cant get madder and madder within every moment, now to back up that claim of yours you will have to present on panel proof showing hulk operating under those abilities by getting madder and stronger thruought the fight, as i presented already there are too many fights of hulk going toe 2 toe with someone for hours and not being able to overpower him or even get an edge which shows us that again while anger is the fuel it still doesnt work the way you want it to work.

i was talking about physical harm and kurse, what you are doing here is bring energy based attacks while i am talking about physical immunity, are you really trying to compare mjolnir + stormbreaker to hulk punch? lets begin with the fact hulk punch is physical and guess what? thats right... kurse is imune to physical harm, now you will argue that his punches are charged with kinetic energy but same thing could be said about any freakin punch, thunderclaps and overall punches create energy so by your logicthere isnt such thing as physical immunity because every physical impact is also charged by some degree of kinetic energy? fact is that every immunity in comics doesnt work in a surgical logical way, fact is that if a comics state that character A is imune to physical harm that means punches cant hurt that character, what can hulk do beside physical harm? nothing...

even if we go by your case which is hulk having energy projection shooting away from his punches, can you prove its = mjolnir + stormbreaker combined? those2 together can effect the universe can hulk do that with only the after shocks of his punches? dont be redicilous

as i said before i am tired of this "hulk will just get stronger" bullshit i hear all the time, either you present hulk getting stronger and stronger as the fight goes on by increasing his rage thruought the fight or zip it, because frankly its getting too redicilous, yes i know hulk's power set and i know potentially he can get stronger with his anger.. however as i explained before you cant get madder and madder because anger isnt unlimited, you reach your peak of anger and thats it.

Thor is portrayed as being equel to hulk in tearms of strength all the time, Kurse is not only x4 stronger than Thor but he also is raping Thor everytime they fight , to assume someone like kurse wont be able to overpower hulk within moments is crazy, Kurse can Ko Hulk , Kurse can just break his neck with easy and its enough for a KO win, and facts are Hulk cant Hurt Kurse becauce he is just a 1 dimensional brick and no matter how intelligent he will be all he can do is just "HULK SMASH" because thats all he is a brick with fists.

i just love how the hulk fanboys are trying to give him now energy powers and by doing that they basically try to give energy powers to every brick that can punch and leave after shock effects, thing is that the energy comming with the punch is only an after impact shock , but if the physical impact itself is absorbed then its mute, its like in martial arts right? if you hit and object and break it then the energy flaw keeps on going thrue the object matirial, however if you dont have enough force to break the object all the impact will be returned and actually hurt you so if you want to use real logic i can bring you hulk hurting himself with his own force when punching kurse

Originally posted by Stoic
It's the stress of being a staunch Thanos supporter. Quan has TMS.
Can you say... butthurt?

Mindless hulk that fought onslaught definitely wins

Kurse stomps.

Kurse wins, especially if he's separated from Banner.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
? Hulk wasn't near Kurse in terms of being an uber threat. Sorry.

Mindless Hulk was never separated from Banner, that was after Mindless Hulk beat Onslaught's physical form.

Anyway, on-topic. Mindless Hulk for the simple and obvious stomping win over Kurse.

Originally posted by janus77
Mindless Hulk was never separated from Banner, that was after Mindless Hulk beat Onslaught's physical form.

Anyway, on-topic. Mindless Hulk for the simple and obvious stomping win over Kurse.

There was a whole arc covering Mindless Hulk's separation from Banner. And it was way before the Onslaught saga.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hulk wasn't near Kurse in terms of being an uber threat. Sorry.
Hulk is stronger than Thanos get over it

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There was a whole arc covering Mindless Hulk's separation from Banner. And it was way before the Onslaught saga.
I think you've got that backwards, Banner and Professor Hulk only separate due to the whole Onslaught Heroes Reborn universe thing. And that happens after Mindless Hulk busts Onslaught and then the heroes all attempt to absorb Onslaught's energy form.

Mindless Hulk, as in the one fighting Onslaught is just Professor Hulk with Banner neutralised so that he can fight more effectively.
Bannerless Hulk (Hulk separated from Banner), happens afterwards.

At present we have a very intelligent Bannerless Hulk too, but during the fight with Onslaught, he was not Bannerless, that persona was still in there but neutralised.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Hulk is stronger than Thanos get over it

I dont see how hulk does not win.
a version of hulk (maestro) held his own against a thor with 10x strength.
how the **** does hulk not win?

Originally posted by janus77
I think you've got that backwards, Banner and Professor Hulk only separate due to the whole Onslaught Heroes Reborn universe thing. And that happens after Mindless Hulk busts Onslaught and then the heroes all attempt to absorb Onslaught's energy form.

Mindless Hulk, as in the one fighting Onslaught is just Professor Hulk with Banner neutralised so that he can fight more effectively.
Bannerless Hulk (Hulk separated from Banner), happens afterwards.

At present we have a very intelligent Bannerless Hulk too, but during the fight with Onslaught, he was not Bannerless, that persona was still in there but neutralised.

No, I'm referring to John Bryne's run. After the Bruce Banner persona died fighting Nightmare, the Bannerless Hulk (I guess you could call him Mindless, but Banner was considered dead and gone IIRC) gets banished. Eventually he comes back from the crossroads, and Samson physically separates Banner from the Hulk.

That's the arc where he fights all of those heroes (Hercules, Iron Man, Wonder Man etc.), this was around #315 or so. Either way, the Banner less Hulk wasn't first seen post Onslaught.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the Hulk Thor fights in #286 was referenced as being Banner less, but more intelligent like the current Hulk. I have no idea what was going on with that.

Originally posted by blue_beast
oh so now its the writers fault? really? i get it when ever you cant present something to back up your claim simply blame on the writers for not writing it down the way you want it to be got it.

the thing is while hulk potentially can get stronger with his anger the fact is he cant just get madder and madder because there is a limit to anger, if someone walks towards you in the streed and spit on you ok? you will get pissed as hell and start to trash that guy but thats the maddest you get in that fight, you cant get madder and madder within every moment, now to back up that claim of yours you will have to present on panel proof showing hulk operating under those abilities by getting madder and stronger thruought the fight, as i presented already there are too many fights of hulk going toe 2 toe with someone for hours and not being able to overpower him or even get an edge which shows us that again while anger is the fuel it still doesnt work the way you want it to work.

i was talking about physical harm and kurse, what you are doing here is bring energy based attacks while i am talking about physical immunity, are you really trying to compare mjolnir + stormbreaker to hulk punch? lets begin with the fact hulk punch is physical and guess what? thats right... kurse is imune to physical harm, now you will argue that his punches are charged with kinetic energy but same thing could be said about any freakin punch, thunderclaps and overall punches create energy so by your logicthere isnt such thing as physical immunity because every physical impact is also charged by some degree of kinetic energy? fact is that every immunity in comics doesnt work in a surgical logical way, fact is that if a comics state that character A is imune to physical harm that means punches cant hurt that character, what can hulk do beside physical harm? nothing...

even if we go by your case which is hulk having energy projection shooting away from his punches, can you prove its = mjolnir + stormbreaker combined? those2 together can effect the universe can hulk do that with only the after shocks of his punches? dont be redicilous

as i said before i am tired of this "hulk will just get stronger" bullshit i hear all the time, either you present hulk getting stronger and stronger as the fight goes on by increasing his rage thruought the fight or zip it, because frankly its getting too redicilous, yes i know hulk's power set and i know potentially he can get stronger with his anger.. however as i explained before you cant get madder and madder because anger isnt unlimited, you reach your peak of anger and thats it.

Thor is portrayed as being equel to hulk in tearms of strength all the time, Kurse is not only x4 stronger than Thor but he also is raping Thor everytime they fight , to assume someone like kurse wont be able to overpower hulk within moments is crazy, Kurse can Ko Hulk , Kurse can just break his neck with easy and its enough for a KO win, and facts are Hulk cant Hurt Kurse becauce he is just a 1 dimensional brick and no matter how intelligent he will be all he can do is just "HULK SMASH" because thats all he is a brick with fists.

i just love how the hulk fanboys are trying to give him now energy powers and by doing that they basically try to give energy powers to every brick that can punch and leave after shock effects, thing is that the energy comming with the punch is only an after impact shock , but if the physical impact itself is absorbed then its mute, its like in martial arts right? if you hit and object and break it then the energy flaw keeps on going thrue the object matirial, however if you dont have enough force to break the object all the impact will be returned and actually hurt you so if you want to use real logic i can bring you hulk hurting himself with his own force when punching kurse


1. Plot Induced Stupidity has always existed, and if it didn't, battles between guys like Batman vs Superman would be over before they began. Do you get that or should I make more of an example of your silly statement?

2. This statement would be true if it were another character that we were speaking of, however this is the Hulk (Banner) that we are speaking of, and as such before you begin spouting, you first need to understand the character that you are arguing against. Banner is different as explained throughout his history.

Banner has psychological issues that he battles against. These issues have fragmented his psyche into a series of what would be called epistemological dichotomies, meaning that he has a lot swimming around in his head, and the main reason that the Hulk can tap into a well of limitless power.

Shit as we speak, one of his personalities has freed itself from his mind and is running around freely. The She Hulk, and other Hulk's can not do this. So yes he can continue to get more excited, and continue to grow in power. You're the person that brought up what went on in comics, so let's dig deeper. Let's go by what a comic on panel said about the Hulk.

The Beyonder said that the Hulk was an infinite power, the Hulk's bio concerning his power set says that the more excitable the Hulk becomes the stronger he becomes, in fact there is no comic that was made concerning the Hulk that says anything other than just that. You may not like it, but those are his powers. Kurse has a limit, the Hulk does not.

3. Actually the Hulk is saturated with solar energy, so you need to check your facts about the Hulk, because in this case you are wrong once again, and I am right. There has been several times that the Hulk has been see leaking energy, and yes technically speaking kinetic energy is energy. Kurse is also not immune to physical damage, he is highly resistant to it. The Juggernaut has better durability feats than Kurse, and even he has been hurt. As I stated before, the Hulk has broken through dimensional barriers that were said on panel to be impenetrable. Is Kurse's durability greater than the stuff that bind dimension shut? Doubtful.

4. The blast that hit Kurse was not on the level that it would take to destroy a planet, yet alone a universe, take your advice and don't be ridiculous. If the blast was that great the Power Pack as well as the entire city would have been obliterated. Obviously Kurse is not as durable as you claim.

5. Thor is at base as strong as the Hulk, but he does not and can not keep up with the Hulk for long periods of time, which is why when they sat there in a test of strength that last over 1 hour is considered PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) because the writer did not include the way that the Hulk's power works, I hope that I don't have to explain this to you again. It really doesn't matter how tired and fed up you are with how the Hulk's power works, he was created to operate under those rules, not yours or mine. Kurse was written to be 4x Thor in strength alone, and this is a finite number, it's a large number but still finite. The Hulk is an infinite power, which as I mentioned before was stated on panel by the same guy that gave Kurse his upgrade.
Thor can not match the Hulk's strength for long periods of time, but he has things that he brings to a fight that Kurse simply does not possess, and never will.

6. Like I told you before, you need to know the character that you are arguing against, and you obviously know very little about the Hulk and attempt to low ball him at every turn. Kurse is more one dimensional than the Hulk is, Yes the Hulk is saturated with solar energy, which is where gamma rays are emitted from. yes the Hulk has been seen on panel bleeding gamma energy, and yes the Hulk can become stronger than Kurse. If we were talking about the Savage Hulk that starts out at 75 tons and reaches 100 plus tons within 5 minutes, then I would not be arguing for him, and would agree that Kurse takes a vast majority of wins. However, the Mindless Hulk was stark raving crazy, and a chaotic creature driven by insane levels of anger. This is the same Mindlesss persona that overcame Onslaught's strength. Yes the same Onslaught that turned the Juggernaut into a whimpering mess physically. It didn't take him an hour to do this, it took him moments. Kurse is really the one dimensional character in this thread. Would you like to compare versatility?

1 The Hulk can increase his strength. Kurse can not

2. The Hulk can increase his durability. Kurse can not

3. The Hulk has energy projection. Kurse does not.

4. The Hulk can see the unseen Kurse can not.

5. The Hulk has an uncanny ability to locate a destination while moving under ground. Kurse can not.

6. The Hulk can leap to the point of flight. I have never seen Kurse do this but he likely could

Who is the one dimensional character now?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
I dont see how hulk does not win.
a version of hulk (maestro) held his own against a thor with 10x strength.
how the **** does hulk not win?

The question here is whether or not Algrim Vangoth can put the mindless Hulk down, when Thor hit him so hard that his head caused micro fractures to appear on an adamantium statue. Kurse would have to put him down immediately, or be eventually overcome by strength greater than his own. The Vision was unable to stop him when he fazed into him, which resulted in damaging him instead. Monica was unable to stop him while attempting to drain him. Hercules accompanied by Iron Man, Wonder Man, Namor, and Doc Samson was unable to put him down, and began to run out of endurance while he was steadily growing stronger. Even after two other Avengers teams stepped in, they too were unable to stop the mindless Hulk.

Onslaught had every heroes number, and they were unable to physically stop him, but the mindless Hulk did in in a few panels. We even saw how Onslaught was stronger at the beginning of the battle, but then saw how fast the hulk ramped up and over powered his physical vessel. This did not take an hour, it took seconds.

Onslaught had Zero physical feats to shout about to call him a physical power house.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Onslaught had Zero physical feats to shout about to call him a physical power house.

Onslaught beat Cain into a physical mess. That is a feat. When asked who did this to him what did he say? Exactly.

Originally posted by Stoic
Onslaught beat Cain into a physical mess. That is a feat. When asked who did this to him what did he say? Exactly. Onslaught threw he using his psionic powers, he didnt do it physically..its even confirmed in Onslaughts bio.

So again what actual physical feats does Onslaught have.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Onslaught threw he using his psionic powers, he didnt do it physically..its even confirmed in Onslaughts bio.

So again what actual physical feats does Onslaught have.


Show me this bio. Prove that Kurse was stronger than the Mindless Hulk at the height of his strength, prove that Kurse could stop him. Prove that Kurse was layed out by universe shattering force, when not only did the blast not destroy a city, but it did not obliterate Power Pack.

Originally posted by Stoic
Show me this bio. Prove that Kurse was stronger than the Mindless Hulk at the height of his strength, prove that Kurse could stop him. Prove that Kurse was layed out by universe shattering force, when not only did the blast not destroy a city, but it did not obliterate Power Pack. Go buy the handbook its in, it been posted on here several times before or search the respect thread on herochat.

His fight against Thor/Bill proves that against two legit class 100's as opposed to Onslaught zero physiacl showings.

He stops him by beating the shit out of him before he gets to strong etc, as Kurse starts out way stronger.

Who said anything about universe shattering force? Hulk was ko'd by Onslaught armor exploding

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Hulk is stronger than Thanos get over it That's a lie and proof you are really emotionally invested in this. Kurse wins though.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Go buy the handbook its in, it been posted on here several times before or search the respect thread on herochat.

His fight against Thor/Bill proves that against two legit class 100's as opposed to Onslaught zero physiacl showings.

He stops him by beating the shit out of him before he gets to strong etc, as Kurse starts out way stronger.

Who said anything about universe shattering force? Hulk was ko'd by Onslaught armor exploding


Do you know how strong the Mindless Hulk was at the height of his strength. How does any of this prove that Kurse would be able to KO the Mindless Hulk?

Never been to Herochat, never will.

Speculation and opinion is all you have. The idea earlier was that the Hulk would not be able to hurt Kurse because of his assumed ability to tank any physical force. I showed in vivid clarity that this is not true.

The fact is that the Mindless Hulk would not be able to be put down for long, and every time Kurse would put him down he would just get back up stronger, and angrier than the last time, and eventually beat the shit out of him. The mindless Hulk was just written to be that resilient. Where do you think that DC came up with DOS Doomsday from?

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you know how strong the Mindless Hulk was at the height of his strength. How does any of this prove that Kurse would be able to KO the Mindless Hulk?

Never been to Herochat, never will.

Speculation and opinion is all you have. The idea earlier was that the Hulk would not be able to hurt Kurse because of his assumed ability to tank any physical force. I showed in vivid clarity that this is not true.

The fact is that the Mindless Hulk would not be able to be put down, and every time Kurse would put him down he would just get back up stronger, and angrier than the last time, and eventually beat the shit out of him. The mindless Hulk was just written to be that resilient. Where do you think that DC came up with DOS Doomsday from? I knew i was wasting my time with you when you tried to pass off Thor/Bills double energy shot as a physical hits like Hulks punch.

This entire post just proves it.

Originally posted by Nihilist
I knew i was wasting my time with you when you tried to pass off Thor/Bills double energy shot as a physical hits like Hulks punch.

This entire post just proves it.


Did you know that energy has physical effects? Kinetic energy is physical. Quantify the blast yield genius, you won't be able to, but what you can quantify was that the blast was unable to destroy a city block yet alone a universe. So stop wasting time and concede.

Originally posted by Stoic
Did you know that energy has physical effects? Kinetic energy is physical. Quantify the blast yield genius, you won't be able to, but what you can quantify was that the blast was unable to destroy a city block yet alone a universe. So stop wasting time and concede. You talk horeshit, when i tried to use Thanos tanking a gas gaint exploding where the effect was felt light years away as blunt force durability showing you cried like a b*tch claiming energy isnt the same a physical...but now it is .

I feel sorry for good Hulk poster like Gundam with bias lying Hulk fanboys like you.

Originally posted by Nihilist
You talk horeshit, when i tried to use Thanos tanking a gas gaint exploding where the effect was felt light years away as blunt force durability showing you cried like a b*tch claiming energy isnt the same a physical...but now it is .

I feel sorry for good Hulk poster like Gundam with bias lying Hulk fanboys like you.

So instead of proving anything, you resort to type with the little giggly blue lol face, and a petty attempt at a low blow. How did Thanos get into this conversation, oh I get it, it's your famous strawman routine. Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Stoic
So instead of proving anything, you resort to type with the little giggly blue lol face, and a petty attempt at a low blow. How did Thanos get into this conversation, oh I get it, it's your famous strawman routine. Concession accepted. It was the easiest way to show your double standards you always use.

Simple facts your main argument of Thor/Bills energy shot being physical holds no grounds at all as a comparison to Hulks punches.

Kurse win.

Originally posted by Nihilist
It was the easiest way to show your double standards you always use.

Simple facts your main argument of Thor/Bills energy shot being physical holds no grounds at all as a comparison to Hulks punches.

Kurse win.


Well actually it showed the outer limits of what Kurse could take in terms of physical abuse, and it was less than the yield that the Mindless Hulk was capable of. Just remember that it was stated in this thread that Kurse was unable to be hurt physically, and energy has physical effects. Just go and ask all of the people dying of skin cancer. I'm sure that you can figure it out, Kurse is not immune to damage.

Hulk wins.

lmao at this thread


kurse owns...better feats, and iirc onslaught WANTED his physical form destroyed

Better feats? You do know how long the Hulk has been around right? Savage Hulk destroyed an asteroid larger than the Earth, and the Mindless Hulk was written to be superior to Savage Hulk. Now I know that recently there has been a lot of planet destroying going around, but do you have any idea how much an asteroid twice the size of Earth weighs? Yet Kurse has better feats? Kurse has a handful of feats. What do you even base your opinion on? What poor showing did the Mindless Hulk have for you to even make a claim like this? Do you even know how the Mindless Hulk was stopped?

and hulk did that

b nice friends

hulk ftw

hi sin

Originally posted by Stoic
1. Plot Induced Stupidity has always existed, and if it didn't, battles between guys like Batman vs Superman would be over before they began. Do you get that or should I make more of an example of your silly statement?

2. This statement would be true if it were another character that we were speaking of, however this is the Hulk (Banner) that we are speaking of, and as such before you begin spouting, you first need to understand the character that you are arguing against. Banner is different as explained throughout his history.

Banner has psychological issues that he battles against. These issues have fragmented his psyche into a series of what would be called epistemological dichotomies, meaning that he has a lot swimming around in his head, and the main reason that the Hulk can tap into a well of limitless power.

Shit as we speak, one of his personalities has freed itself from his mind and is running around freely. The She Hulk, and other Hulk's can not do this. So yes he can continue to get more excited, and continue to grow in power. You're the person that brought up what went on in comics, so let's dig deeper. Let's go by what a comic on panel said about the Hulk.

The Beyonder said that the Hulk was an infinite power, the Hulk's bio concerning his power set says that the more excitable the Hulk becomes the stronger he becomes, in fact there is no comic that was made concerning the Hulk that says anything other than just that. You may not like it, but those are his powers. Kurse has a limit, the Hulk does not.

3. Actually the Hulk is saturated with solar energy, so you need to check your facts about the Hulk, because in this case you are wrong once again, and I am right. There has been several times that the Hulk has been see leaking energy, and yes technically speaking kinetic energy is energy. Kurse is also not immune to physical damage, he is highly resistant to it. The Juggernaut has better durability feats than Kurse, and even he has been hurt. As I stated before, the Hulk has broken through dimensional barriers that were said on panel to be impenetrable. Is Kurse's durability greater than the stuff that bind dimension shut? Doubtful.

4. The blast that hit Kurse was not on the level that it would take to destroy a planet, yet alone a universe, take your advice and don't be ridiculous. If the blast was that great the Power Pack as well as the entire city would have been obliterated. Obviously Kurse is not as durable as you claim.

5. Thor is at base as strong as the Hulk, but he does not and can not keep up with the Hulk for long periods of time, which is why when they sat there in a test of strength that last over 1 hour is considered PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) because the writer did not include the way that the Hulk's power works, I hope that I don't have to explain this to you again. It really doesn't matter how tired and fed up you are with how the Hulk's power works, he was created to operate under those rules, not yours or mine. Kurse was written to be 4x Thor in strength alone, and this is a finite number, it's a large number but still finite. The Hulk is an infinite power, which as I mentioned before was stated on panel by the same guy that gave Kurse his upgrade.
Thor can not match the Hulk's strength for long periods of time, but he has things that he brings to a fight that Kurse simply does not possess, and never will.



more example of what? Lol you didnt bring ANY example, i asked you to show me feats of hulk getting angrier and madder thruought the fight anf by that increasing his strength like you claim he can, why cant you bring that simple statement a proof? i mean if the hulk opirates that way you shouldnt have any problem right? the only silly and dare i say stupid thing here is the fact i asked you 3 times for something which you cant show me so now go and fetch what i told you to or zip it... do i need to explain it simplier for you?

what the hell does it have to do with banner? i asked you to present on pannel proof to your statement right? so do it

now you are arguing against facts? its a fact that kurse isimune to physical damage its within his power set, it was stated by narration, more importently it was stated by thor as a reason he wasnt able to brawl against him with his fists in the first place, so now you go up against that with a simple claim you pulled out of your a$$ saying its not true? as i said before are you trying to not make any sense or purpose?

should i care if the hulk got gamma energy inside of him? should ic are if the hulk was leaking energy? the only thing discussed here is the fact hulk punches doesnt have to energy projection and the fact he doesnt shoot energy, his punches has after shock kinetic energy like every other puncher in comics because thats the way physicas work, but as i said again the after shock energy is released after the blunt force punch and if it is absorbed then its all mute, also as i said even if you wana do the energy debate prove his after shock energy is at least = mjolnir+stormbreaker and if you really tro to argue that i will laugh in your face straight up.

wow you are a hypocrite arent you? first you are crying me rivers that writers are not doing their job by portraying things right, and then you say the blast wasnt powerful because it didnt destroy a city? really? art strawing? thats already the art factor which means the artist didnt want to portray destruction and oblitirate an entire city or even the freakin earth, how many times did we see odin fight and no collestral damage? why wasnt zeus destroying everything around when handing hulk his green a$$? dont be a strawman and straw on art, there are facts and the facts are both mjolnir and stormbreaker were combined which means neither alone was enough to stop him, use the context instead of the pictures kido.

feats say otherwise, feats show us thor going toe 2 toe with hulk for hours , trying to argue against feats again i see? not doing good for you, prove its PIS by presenting hulk fights where he was increasing his strength during the fight and became stronger and stronger by getting madder and madder otherwise you are just trolling with lies and twisting the already existing feats.

i know very well the way hulk's powers work and i know potentially the madder he gets the stronger he gets, however my point which you seem to not be able grasping is that he cant just increase his rage during the fight at will rage has limits, and i asked you to present an on panel proof of him doing so which you failed to do and now you are trying to avoid it by hiding behind walls of text and trying to make me forget about that by stating it as a fact, but it wont work so as i said again hulk CAN NOT increase his anger to different scales duringa fight therefor heCAN NOT cat infinity strong during a fight, if that was really the case hulk wouldnever lose a fight unless he is overpowered from the get go, you are trying to present abilities he doesnt posses.

ABC Logic involving onslaught? you can do better than that, as i said before kurse is x4 stronger than thor and its all he needs in order to KO hulk as the fight starts or simply breaking his neck and hos bones, what feats does mindless hulk has anyway? physically breaking onslaught armor? and later he got knocked out by the armor exploding which guess what? now i will use your own argument and say that explotion didnt destroy a planet it didnt destroy anything therefor something that cant even destroy a planet knocked the hulk out and Kurse has a planet destroying power within hispunches easily

as i said before hulk doesnt have any energy projection nor does he use energy, all you do since the beginning of this debate is trying to give hulk abilitieshe doesnt posses which is sad actually because by doing that you admit that the real hulk is a chump and cant do much unless you add him imaginary powerset.

kurse doesnt need to increase his strength to beat hulk he is already stronger.

kurse is imune to physical harm thats the ultimate durability he needs vs 1 dimensional brick like hulk

hulk DOES NOT have energy projection thatsa straight up lyingunless you want to present him shooting energy out of his green a$$, and if you are reffering to kinetic energy aftershocks then everyone have those but again thats only a physical punch leaving an aftershock it doesnt count as energy projection on its own.

the hulk can see the unseen? mindless hulk can see the unseen? really? not you are making him useless powers? oh my bad its actually a useful one since seeing the unseen will allow him to see he is about to get his butt kicked and avoid kurse

hulk is the 1 dimension character since all he can do is just hulk smash at least kurse got physical immunity

A weaker version of Onslaught owned Juggernaut TWICE physically. He did it once when he knocked him across the planet and he did it again when he grabbed Juggernaut and held him in his hand (juggernaut couldnt move) and snatched the gem out of his chest.

I don't know why SOMEONE is bringing up Onslaught using psychic abilities against Juggernaut because it was mentioned on panel that a more powerful Onslaught was doing the same thing in his fight against hulk and it didn't work.

Hulk delivering punches that Earth heros are struggling to even walk through...the shockwaves alone are sending people flying. Even high class 100 are straining to advance towards the fight due to Hulks punching power.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3433/onslaught1b6nt.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5554/onslaught1c7fw.jpg

With their physical might, the air rages with atomic thunder...for miles Windows break..earthquakes.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3563/onslaught1d0lm.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
A weaker version of Onslaught owned Juggernaut TWICE physically. He did it once when he knocked him across the planet and he did it again when he grabbed Juggernaut and held him in his hand (juggernaut couldnt move) and snatched the gem out of his chest.

I don't know why SOMEONE is bringing up Onslaught using psychic abilities against Juggernaut because it was mentioned on panel that a more powerful Onslaught was doing the same thing in his fight against hulk and it didn't work.

u do realize that was pis dont you?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
u do realize that was pis dont you?

Two Times is a charm to me and Onslaught tapped that a** twice. It can't get any clearer imo.

hmmm....so the fact that juggs had previously hurled the gem n space means little to u

Originally posted by Sin I AM
hmmm....so the fact that juggs had previously hurled the gem n space means little to u

It's not the gem I am talking about...its the fact that Onslaught overpowered Jugs twice "with ease" and pierced his hide with just a mere touch.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well actually it showed the outer limits of what Kurse could take in terms of physical abuse, and it was less than the yield that the Mindless Hulk was capable of. Just remember that it was stated in this thread that Kurse was unable to be hurt physically, and energy has physical effects. Just go and ask all of the people dying of skin cancer. I'm sure that you can figure it out, Kurse is not immune to damage.

Hulk wins. Skin cancer, god youre so such a retard at times.

EP attacks are not the same as physical attacks,fact.

Hulk cant put kurse dowm.

Originally posted by carver9
It's not the gem I am talking about...its the fact that Onslaught overpowered Jugs twice "with ease" and pierced his hide with just a mere touch.


he did not pierce his hide with physical strength carver. Go reread onslaught saga...he was a being of psionic energy who magaged to negate cytorraks enchantment and pluck the gem from his chest (using psionics and reality warping)...WHICH should be discarded since we know the gem was in space at the time AND the end result was pis

Originally posted by Sin I AM
he did not pierce his hide with physical strength carver. Go reread onslaught saga...he was a being of psionic energy who magaged to negate cytorraks enchantment and pluck the gem from his chest (using psionics and reality warping)...WHICH should be discarded since we know the gem was in space at the time AND the end result was pis

He didn't have reality warping powers when he fought Jugs...he only had Xavier and Magneto powers. I read the story. Onslaught pierced him and he did it easily at that.

Originally posted by Nihilist
Skin cancer, god youre so such a retard at times.

EP attacks are not the same as physical attacks,fact.

Hulk cant put kurse dowm.

Actually energy is physical. This is a fact.

Question: My position is that nothing "nonphysical" (ie, supernatural, immaterial) can exist in our universe. How can I clearly explain to high school students that "waves" (as in a photon can be both a particle and a wave) and "energy" are not "nonphysical" things, but are physical things (that obey the laws of physics, like all other physical things that exist in our world). Thanks for helping.

Quote: Replies of the Question

Since I do not agree with the proposition, I do not know of reasons to support it. The meanings of the words "nothing", "nonphysical", "can", "exist", "our", and "universe" are rather ambiguous, and of course change with time. Your statement could be justifiable if and only if we assume that one has a priori and complete knowledge of known, unknowns, knowables, and unknowables of and for all times.

How could we be aware of existence or lack of existence of non-physicals if we, as physical being, are limited to physical probes and means to sense effects and establish existence?

With regards to waves, energy, and the like, these are words used to denote observable physical phenomena or concepts that convey the effects, implications, or consequences of physical phenomena. These are or ought to be observable directly or indirectly (through their effect) by way of physical examination.

AK

--

Ali Khounsary, Ph.D.
Advanced Photon Source
Argonne National Laboratory

Hi, Richard !!!

You propose that "nothing nonphysical can exist in our universe", like - for instance - supernatural or immaterial. And you wish to explain that "waves" and "energy" are nonphysical things but obey laws of physics like all other physical things, so that they belong to the physical world..

Well, first of all, you know that theories are created aiming to explain a given existing phenomenon. The phenomenon "light" can be explained like particles that travel in linear course, but shows interference properties, which proves that are waves ( only waves behave like this ).

To explain the atom, the scientists developed several models : Thomson, Rutherford, Bohr, Orbital Model (probability of finding electrons) and now the Quarks theory.

Einstein said : E=mc2 so that matter is a "concentrated form of energy". The gravity can attract light and make it bend. Is gravity a physical or non-physical phenomenon ?? Gravity exists, for sure !! But nobody knows exactly what gravity is. Do we live in a universe where the gravity is "positive" and is there another part of the universe where the gravity is "negative" ?? Is there gravity waves ??

Alcir Grohmann

Originally posted by carver9
He didn't have reality warping powers when he fought Jugs...he only had Xavier and Magneto powers. I read the story. Onslaught pierced him and he did it easily at that.


are u sure? iirc he did, neertheless onslaught was still a purely psionic being taking physical form, my argument still stands that it was psionics not physical might that allowed him to pierce his chest

Kurse!!!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
are u sure? iirc he did, neertheless onslaught was still a purely psionic being taking physical form, my argument still stands that it was psionics not physical might that allowed him to pierce his chest

Originally posted by carver9



concession accepted

Originally posted by Sin I AM
concession accepted

Why concede when you are wrong? YOU need to concede.

Originally posted by carver9
Why concede when you are wrong? YOU need to concede.


wrong about what? Onslaught was a psionic entity, the only plausible explanation for him being able to "materialize" a gem of cytorrak and pul it from his chest when the damn thing was in space, i really dont understand y u dont see it

Originally posted by Sin I AM
wrong about what? Onslaught was a psionic entity, the only plausible explanation for him being able to "materialize" a gem of cytorrak and pul it from his chest when the damn thing was in space, i really dont understand y u dont see it


do you really need to ask that question, carver is so up Hulk colon he know what he had for breakfast, lunch and dinner!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
wrong about what? Onslaught was a psionic entity, the only plausible explanation for him being able to "materialize" a gem of cytorrak and pul it from his chest when the damn thing was in space, i really dont understand y u dont see it

My argument isnt about the gem...my argument is about "how easily a weakened Onslaught handle Marko".

Originally posted by carver9
My argument isnt about the gem...my argument is about "how easily a weakened Onslaught handle Marko".

and my argument is about the plausibility of the entire event

couple questions when was it shown Onslaught was "weakened", an when was that gem placed in his cains chest? ...and where on panel is it shown him "handling" cain physically..

Originally posted by Sin I AM
and my argument is about the plausibility of the entire event

couple questions when was it shown Onslaught was "weakened", an when was that gem placed in his cains chest? ...and where on panel is it shown him "handling" cain physically..

The first fight happened off panel but it was stated that Onslaught punched Cain from Texas to New York. The second fight, Cain was pissing in his pants because Onslaught was chasing him, trying to kill him. He then encounter Gambit and ask him for help and Gambit declined...he then ran into Phoenix and she sense fear all over Cain. Cain told her about Onslaught but Onslaught started messing with him mentally which resulted in him running upstairs. He then runs into Onslaught who palmed him with one hand. Juggernaut scared shittless, trying to break free from Onslaught ONE HAND fails which result in Onslaught using the tip of his finger, digging in Juggernauts chest pulling the gem out.

I don't know when the gem returned but the gem ALWAYS returns because its a part of Cain Marko. It doesnt matter though because the gem isn't the ft that I am giving Onslaught, its him manhandling Juggernaut and easily piercing his hide with just a press of his finger.

Originally posted by carver9
The first fight happened off panel but it was stated that Onslaught punched Cain from Texas to New York. The second fight, Cain was pissing in his pants because Onslaught was chasing him, trying to kill him. He then encounter Gambit and ask him for help and Gambit declined...he then ran into Phoenix and she sense fear all over Cain. Cain told her about Onslaught but Onslaught started messing with him mentally which resulted in him running upstairs. He then runs into Onslaught who palmed him with one hand. Juggernaut scared shittless, trying to break free from Onslaught ONE HAND fails which result in Onslaught using the tip of his finger, digging in Juggernauts chest pulling the gem out.

I don't know when the gem returned but the gem ALWAYS returns because its a part of Cain Marko. It doesnt matter though because the gem isn't the ft that I am giving Onslaught, its him manhandling Juggernaut and easily piercing his hide with just a press of his finger.


This did happen, it was stupid, but it happened all the same and is Marvel canon. I'm sure the writers have a perfect explanation for much of the stuff that did not make sense.

Didn't Bishop KO Juggernaut under the same writer?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Didn't Bishop KO Juggernaut under the same writer?

Not with his hands and he attacked a Juggernaut that got curbed by Onslaught. He hit him with an electrical, recharged blast from a power line and he did it against a weakened, curbed Juggernaut.

So... Bishop KO'ed the same Juggernaut that got his gem ripped out.

Bishop for Skyfather level blasts

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_juggernautkod121.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_juggernautkod22.jpghttp://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_juggernautkod23.jpg

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
So... Bishop KO'ed the same Juggernaut that got his gem ripped out.

Bishop for Skyfather level blasts

Yeah, he koed a damaged Juggernaut (even though Jugs wasnt koed).

Bishop vs Odin thread incoming

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Bishop vs Odin thread incoming

Lol.

Originally posted by carver9
The first fight happened off panel but it was stated that Onslaught punched Cain from Texas to New York. The second fight, Cain was pissing in his pants because Onslaught was chasing him, trying to kill him. He then encounter Gambit and ask him for help and Gambit declined...he then ran into Phoenix and she sense fear all over Cain. Cain told her about Onslaught but Onslaught started messing with him mentally which resulted in him running upstairs. He then runs into Onslaught who palmed him with one hand. Juggernaut scared shittless, trying to break free from Onslaught ONE HAND fails which result in Onslaught using the tip of his finger, digging in Juggernauts chest pulling the gem out.

I don't know when the gem returned but the gem ALWAYS returns because its a part of Cain Marko. It doesnt matter though because the gem isn't the ft that I am giving Onslaught, its him manhandling Juggernaut and easily piercing his hide with just a press of his finger.


where was it explicitly (issue #) stated that onslaught punched him, not that that is a great feat because any class 100 shuold be able to do it. iirc it was a magnetic toss

i still find it more believable that it was part mind-phuck/psionic display that allowed him to "pierce" his chest and produce something that wasnt there

fyi the gem only returned to earth thru plot device...as nova bumped it out of orbit

Originally posted by carver9
The first fight happened off panel but it was stated that Onslaught punched Cain from Texas to New York. The second fight, Cain was pissing in his pants because Onslaught was chasing him, trying to kill him. He then encounter Gambit and ask him for help and Gambit declined...he then ran into Phoenix and she sense fear all over Cain. Cain told her about Onslaught but Onslaught started messing with him mentally which resulted in him running upstairs. He then runs into Onslaught who palmed him with one hand. Juggernaut scared shittless, trying to break free from Onslaught ONE HAND fails which result in Onslaught using the tip of his finger, digging in Juggernauts chest pulling the gem out.

I don't know when the gem returned but the gem ALWAYS returns because its a part of Cain Marko. It doesnt matter though because the gem isn't the ft that I am giving Onslaught, its him manhandling Juggernaut and easily piercing his hide with just a press of his finger. God. The writing from the whole Onslaught mess, just makes me want to throw up.

Originally posted by Stoic
Actually energy is physical. This is a fact.

Question: My position is that nothing "nonphysical" (ie, supernatural, immaterial) can exist in our universe. How can I clearly explain to high school students that "waves" (as in a photon can be both a particle and a wave) and "energy" are not "nonphysical" things, but are physical things (that obey the laws of physics, like all other physical things that exist in our world). Thanks for helping.

Quote: Replies of the Question

Since I do not agree with the proposition, I do not know of reasons to support it. The meanings of the words "nothing", "nonphysical", "can", "exist", "our", and "universe" are rather ambiguous, and of course change with time. Your statement could be justifiable if and only if we assume that one has a priori and complete knowledge of known, unknowns, knowables, and unknowables of and for all times.

How could we be aware of existence or lack of existence of non-physicals if we, as physical being, are limited to physical probes and means to sense effects and establish existence?

With regards to waves, energy, and the like, these are words used to denote observable physical phenomena or concepts that convey the effects, implications, or consequences of physical phenomena. These are or ought to be observable directly or indirectly (through their effect) by way of physical examination.

AK

--

Ali Khounsary, Ph.D.
Advanced Photon Source
Argonne National Laboratory

Hi, Richard !!!

You propose that "nothing nonphysical can exist in our universe", like - for instance - supernatural or immaterial. And you wish to explain that "waves" and "energy" are nonphysical things but obey laws of physics like all other physical things, so that they belong to the physical world..

Well, first of all, you know that theories are created aiming to explain a given existing phenomenon. The phenomenon "light" can be explained like particles that travel in linear course, but shows interference properties, which proves that are waves ( only waves behave like this ).

To explain the atom, the scientists developed several models : Thomson, Rutherford, Bohr, Orbital Model (probability of finding electrons) and now the Quarks theory.

Einstein said : E=mc2 so that matter is a "concentrated form of energy". The gravity can attract light and make it bend. Is gravity a physical or non-physical phenomenon ?? Gravity exists, for sure !! But nobody knows exactly what gravity is. Do we live in a universe where the gravity is "positive" and is there another part of the universe where the gravity is "negative" ?? Is there gravity waves ??

Alcir Grohmann facepalm