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Non-injured General Grievous and Count Dooku face off against ROTS Sidious and TPM Maul. Which pair wins?

Setting: The Invisible Hand

Sidious and Maul PWN. I don't think Sidious even needs Maul...

This is Grievous in his hurt mechanical body? Force lightning does him in. Sidious lets Maul fight Dooku and watches him die before easily killing Dooku.

READ his post, please. He says NON-INJURED General Grievous.

Even so, Palpatine kills him and has some tea while Maul and Dooku fight, and then after Maul loses, proceeds to slaughter Dooku.

Well it depends how quickly Sidious can defeat Dooku or Grievous. I would say that Dooku would go and confront his master. Dooku's is almost as good of a swordsmen as Sidious, and I doubt he'll die quickly. Now it depends on

Grievous vs. Maul

I'm not sure who'll win this. If Grievous wins, then he'll be able to help Dooku beat Sidious.

Dooku fights Sidious. After a relatively long battle Dooku goes down. I would say GG beats Maul, but it wont be easy. After a long battle Maul will get sliced in half (again). But then Sidious will pwn him.

If they fought the other way round Dooku would pwn Maul. Then he would help GG and they might be able to defeat Sids. But chances are GG is already dead and Dooku will soon follow suit.

Dooku wouldn't "pwn" Maul.

Sidious and Maul win.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Dooku wouldn't "pwn" Maul.


Yes he would. Dooku is far better than Maul in both lightsaber skill and force powers. The only thing that Maul has over Dooku is skill in hand to hand combat - and seeing this isnt hand to hand combat Dooku pwns. Also Maul was killed by TPM Kenobi. Dooku wtf pwned both AOTC and ROTS Kenobi, both of which are better than their TPM counterpart.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Dooku fights Sidious. After a relatively long battle Dooku goes down. I would say GG beats Maul, but it wont be easy. After a long battle Maul will get sliced in half (again). But then Sidious will pwn him.

If they fought the other way round Dooku would pwn Maul. Then he would help GG and they might be able to defeat Sids. But chances are GG is already dead and Dooku will soon follow suit.

Relatively long? Anakin made quick work of Dooku when he got pissed. In an all out fight, Dooku maybe has a minute. If he's lucky.

Originally posted by Escape81
Relatively long? Anakin made quick work of Dooku when he got pissed. In an all out fight, Dooku maybe has a minute. If he's lucky.

Lol. I said Dooku would lose. What more could you want?

Anyway Anakin had the form advantage. Makashi couldnt hold up against Anakins powerful attacks. Dooku wont have that problem with Sids. If Dooku can force Sids into a saber battle the fight will not be quick. I would even give Dooku a 30% chance of victory. However if they have a force battle then Dooku gets beaten.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Yes he would. Dooku is far better than Maul in both lightsaber skill and force powers. The only thing that Maul has over Dooku is skill in hand to hand combat - and seeing this isnt hand to hand combat Dooku pwns. Also Maul was killed by TPM Kenobi. Dooku wtf pwned both AOTC and ROTS Kenobi, both of which are better than their TPM counterpart.

Dooku isn't "far better" than Maul with a lightsaber. He is superior with his technique, but Maul has energy, speed, strength, and unpredictability on his side. Dooku would be hard pressed to defeat Maul in a lightsaber battle. It wouldn't be a walk in the park. Tyranus does have an advantage in force powers, but, still, Sidious could take out Greivous with the force before Dooku could take out Maul. If Maul were to attack Dooku, the following would likely happen: Maul would jump at, Dooku would let out a quick burst of lightning, which would make Maul grit his teeth in anger, and then the melee combat would begin. All Maul needs to do is hold him off. Sidious would be there seconds later to annihilate Tyranus.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Dooku isn't "far better" than Maul with a lightsaber. He is superior with his technique, but Maul has energy, speed, strength, and unpredictability on his side. Dooku would be hard pressed to defeat Maul in a lightsaber battle. It wouldn't be a walk in the park.

I disagree. Maul was forced back by an enraged Obi-Wan (according to the TPM novel). I am quite willing to bet that Dooku is several leagues above an angry TPM Obi-Wan. Also Dooku has skill, experience and a mastery of the lightsaber form on his side. Maul having more energy means little, it just means he wont get tired. Maul having more speed means little, Dooku has just as much speed. He went toe to toe with Yoda for heavens sake. Strength will be the only thing that Maul has over Dooku, and this alone wont win the battle.



Im not saying that Dooku and co will win. Im just saying that Dooku would pwn Maul.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Lol. I said Dooku would lose. What more could you want?

Anyway Anakin had the form advantage. Makashi couldnt hold up against Anakins powerful attacks. Dooku wont have that problem with Sids. If Dooku can force Sids into a saber battle the fight will not be quick. I would even give Dooku a 30% chance of victory. However if they have a force battle then Dooku gets beaten.

I hope that you're going to realize that there is such a thing called all out fights. Count Dooku prefers lightsaber based combat, but even he was capable of actively using the Force during duels (see Revenge of the Sith).

Yoda and Sidious were locked in one particular form of combat because they were equals - and just as quick. Neither of them could open themselves up for a Force assault without the risk of the other killing them before they could create an attack.

Same for Obi-Wan and Anakin.

Palpatine is faster and more agile than Dooku, and is the smarter fighter. He will use his saber skills, his speed, and his Force assaults - as well as the environment - if he battles Count Dooku.

That would make him far more formidable than Anakin.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Sidious and Maul PWN. I don't think Sidious even needs Maul...

First of all, Rampant, Maul got killed by Obi-Wan because he was gloating and was arrogant, other than that, it was luck on Obi-Wan's part.

Dooku vs. Sidious, Sidious destroys him in 5 Seconds, and laughs at his mutilated head

Dooku vs. Maul, Juyo and Makashi are both Lightsaber Combat styles, Maul is the better here, Dooku is too reliant on Force Powers to end fights, if he can get one in, he wins this, but Maul might do a Force Push while being Gripped, and Lightning he might block

Grievous vs. Sidious, Sidious destroys him with the Force, unless starting next to each other, then it takes some time to get away from Grievous with the Force, but in the end, kills him

Grievous vs. Maul, Maul using a Force Power could end this quick, but Grievous wins Saber Combat

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Dooku vs. Maul, Juyo and Makashi are both Lightsaber Combat styles, Maul is the better here,

Oh, really? Proof for that absurd assertion? I'll assume - as always - there is none.

Originally posted by Advent
Oh, really? Proof for that absurd assertion? I'll assume - as always - there is none. Makashi doesn't do very well against more agressive forms of Saber combat(Juyo, Djem So, Ataru.- From SW Insider on Lightsaber Forms.), but is very good against the forms Shi-Cho and Soresu. Juyo is a more potent and more agressive form than Djem So, which makes it that the Count has a very low chance of coming out of this duel alive, considering he had trouble dealing with Anakin , who was using an agressive but more weaker form than Juyo, even though Dooku descirbed Anakin as "the best Djem So user he had ever seen.". So DOoku has a very good chance of getting overwelmed by Maul and then cut down.

I actually think this is close. Dooku could definately hold off Sidious for a while. I mean, Dooku's close to Mace and Yoda, and Mace beated Sidious while Yoda put up a damn good fight against him. EU grievous is also undeniably stronegr than Maul. I'm thinking that Maul could probably hold Grievous off till Sidious kills Dooku and then GG goes down.

Keyword in your post, Sith, is 'close'. George makes it very clear that the only one's who can compete with ROTS Sidious are Mace and Yoda, not Dooku. Dooku states in DR, that he fears Sidious and won't even make a move against him, even with Asajj helping him. If he didn't have the guts and knew he wasn't powerful enough to fight Sidious, even with Asajj helping him, then there's no way he can 'definately' hold Sidious off, for long.

And this is pre-shuttle crash Grievous, people. Meaning he had no lightsaber training with Count Dooku, which means he goes down pretty easily.

Lucas says that only Yoda and Mace can compete with Sidious but then later says that ROTS Vader is even with Sidious, so I don't really take the only Yoda and Mace can compete with Sidious quote as good proof. And as for Asajj and Dooku together not being able to take out Sidious, that's not true. Dooku didn't qant to risk fighting Sidious even with Asajj cause he was afraid of Sidious and didn't know how strong Sidious was so he didn't want to take the risk of possibly losing. That's why he didn't face him, not because they couldn't but because Dooku didn't know for sure if they could or not and was to scared to try. And by non-injured Grievous I think that Quinlan_Vos meant Grievous before Macr crushes his chest, as in EU Grievous.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Makashi doesn't do very well against more agressive forms of Saber combat(Juyo, Djem So, Ataru.- From SW Insider on Lightsaber Forms.),

Star Wars Insider, Issue 62 - if that's what you're referring to doesn't say that, or at least not to my knowledge. Provide exact quote. I forgot, though, that that issue does say this about Makashi:

"The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat became Form II, advancing the precision of blade manipulation to its finest possible degree and producing the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen. "

So, how can it be the lightsaber-to-lightsaber form, but no fair well against half the other forms? Obviously, from what we know, it does indeed produce great duelists (i.e. Dooku). And what's that about not doing good against Ataru? Was it just me, or was Dooku able to beat the shit out of Kenobi, toy with Anakin, and then have enough energy to actually battle Yoda and hold his own. By the way, my "friend". Even if you say that a general Makashi user would lose to an Ataru user, Dooku is more experienced than that. See this quote here, from the ROTS novelization:

"Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataru form, with its ridiculous acrobatics."

Oh, so it seems Dooku isn't your average Makashi practitioner. Of course, if your words are even true (which I doubt, given I don't see that written). Now, considering Ataru is an offensive form - why is it that Dooku is able to own Ataru?



Oh my. Do you have any actual proof for this assertion? In fact, once Kenobi deployed Soresu, Dooku thought he might be overwhelmed by the duo, so he decided to own Kenobi with the Force. And again, it's called the lightsaber-to-lightsaber form for a reason. Not just because it's good against two forms. Don't be so daft.



Considering your evidence has been shot to shit. I'd say you're wrong. Actually, I know you're wrong, but let us continue.



What's your point exactly? I don't see it. Oh, I forgot that Maul is on par with Anakin, right? Oh wait, that can't be it because it's wrong. What does that have to do with anything exactly? Just because Juyo is more aggressive, doesn't mean he'll be able to overwhelm Count Dooku. And really, you think Maul would have a better chance against Anakin? Laughable, considering he got his lightssaber broke in half by an enraged padawan. Now, I know Maul is better than Obi-Wan, but that doesn't change the fact he still got it sliced in half. That part was hardly luck.

And I'd also like to know why Dooku is able to defeat Grievous, who is more aggressive than probably anyone in Star Wars, and fights with overwhelming speed, is better than Asajj Ventress, but he can't defeat Maul . You don't have any argument, foolish child. You're stating an average Form x, y, or z is better than an average Form a practitioner. We know Dooku is far from average, and given he knows every weakness of Ataru, that assumption is correct (not that your quote is even true, probably made it up).



Just because Maul practices Juyo, he should be able to overcome Dooku? Wow. Great reasonings. By this logic, Sora Bulq > Dooku. But wait, didn't Sora and Dooku fight? And Sora ended up getting blasted with lightning, however, he wasn't able to overcome Dooku in the least bit, even with Master Tholme at his side. So, as usual, you're logic fails. This is Count Dooku who is described as "one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history". Meaning one of the best ever.

Don't think you can pull that stupid bullshit on me, son.

Touche.

'As usual'? Just because I consider Revan an Ancient Sith, which is different from a 'True Sith' (Considering he was around 4 thousand years prior to DE, which WOULD make him an Ancient Sith, but not part of the 'True Sith', the species.) it doesn't make it false logic. And according to YOUR theory on Naga Sadow being the last 'True Sith', has proven to be bullshit, considering from what we've heard in K2, the True Sith still live. Kreia confirms it, Revan confirms it and seeks them out by himself and then the Exile does the same.

Don't give me a lecture on who's full of bullshit and who isn't, considering K2 proved your little 'bullshit' of a theory wrong. Don't get 'Ancient Sith' confused with 'True Sith'. Ancient Sith can refer to both human or Sith species Sith Lords(Considering, Again, Revan and Malak and other Sith in that timeframe, were around 4 thousand years prior to DE. Even the Jedi Academy Books, refer to Kun as an 'Ancient Sith Lord', and he was only around 50 years prior to Revan and Malak's time. Are you now going to say that just becuase Kun was around 50 years before Revan and Malak, that Revan and Malak aren't 'Ancient' Sith aswell?), while 'True Sith', is limited to the Sith species alone.

Uh, yes - "bullshit", Spartan. It's what you spew half the time, so you should know it by now. Was there a point of bringing what I said up? Or are you just doing it now because I tore your shit up? In any case, doesn't matter. I was wrong, so what's your point? There's a difference between being ignorant, and spewing bullshit. I was the former in that case.

But whatever, have fun thinking you actually accomplished something!

Originally posted by Advent
Uh, yes - "bullshit", Spartan. It's what you spew half the time, so you should know it by now. And you didn't even bother to refute my post-Oh wait, that's becuase YOU CAN'T!

I have shown sufficient proof on how K2 and the Jedi Academy Books, all say different about your little 'theory'.

You say 'Revan wasn't an Ancient Sith'. I say 'Then why does the Jedi Academy books refer to Kun as an 'Ancient Sith Lord'? Oh, maybe becuase HE WAS AROUND 4 THOUSAND YEARS BEFORE THEN! And so were Revan and Malak, thus making them 'Ancient Sith' aswell.'

Then, you say 'Naga Sadow was the Last of the Ancient/ True Sith.", to which I reply: ' Then why do Kreia and Revan(To Bastila.) in K2, say that the 'True Sith', still live?'

Yeah, who's the one with the bullshit again, oh yeah, YOU.

EDIT: And yeah, I DID accomplish something. I blew up your 'theory', right in your face, with logic, and made an ass out of yourself.

Spartan, you truly are the epitome of idiocy. Did you just forget to read my post, or were you to busy fapping to the fact you think you did something of importance?

Originally posted by Advent
In any case, doesn't matter. I was wrong, so what's your point? There's a difference between being ignorant, and spewing bullshit. I was the former in that case.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Yeah, who's the one with the bullshit again, oh yeah, YOU.

Um, still you. Just look a few posts above, moron.

If you really want to act like you accomplished something, boy, then pick a versus match to debate me on.

Originally posted by Advent
Spartan, you truly are the epitome of idiocy. Did you just forget to read my post, or were you to busy fapping to the fact you think you did something of importance?





Um, still you. Just look a few posts above, moron.

If you really want to act like you accomplished something, boy, then pick a versus match to debate me on. Still sore, sweetheart? Seriously, you can insult me till the cows come home.

'Doing something of importance', I wouldn't exactly consider OWNing you at your own game an important thing. And maybe tomorrow. It's 1:17A.M right now,and I need to go to work tomorrow. I'm going to be logging off soon anyway.

OMG!!! Is this Advent sticking up for Count Dooku!?! I never would have thought it possible!! I owe you one Advent, you have saved me a sh*t load of typing.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Still sore, sweetheart? Seriously, you can insult me till the cows come home.

No. What am I going to be sore about exactly? I admitted I was wrong. So, what the hell - how am I "sore"? All I said was you're a moron, which you are.

Spartan, there's something you aren't getting. Proving someone wrong one time, doesn't mean anything, nor that you can do it again - otherwise mid-tiers like Nebaris would be able to destroy my posts all the time. And proving me wrong on something like a title is not impressive, or anything to gloat about. And it certainly doesn't mean I actually "spew bullshit" all the time. I said I was wrong, so what? You made shit up, that's what "bullshit" is.



Considering you make a big deal of it, and probably are setting off fireworks as we speak - I'd so say.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
OMG!!! Is this Advent sticking up for Count Dooku!?! I never would have thought it possible!! I owe you one Advent, you have saved me a sh*t load of typing.

Yeah, it's no problem. I have no clue whatever makes anyone think Maul can beat our beloved, and most formal Count Dooku!

Originally posted by Rampant ox
OMG!!! Is this Advent sticking up for Count Dooku!?! I never would have thought it possible!! I owe you one Advent, you have saved me a sh*t load of typing. Even so, you do realize he loses to Sidious in the end? EU pre-shuttle crash Grievous is the first to go down, then Maul fights Dooku, possibly tiring him out, while Sidious watches. Then Maul goes down and Sidious proceeds to show Dooku how to handle a lightsaber.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Even so, you do realize he loses to Sidious in the end? EU pre-shuttle crash Grievous is the first to go down, then Maul fights Dooku, possibly tiring him out, while Sidious watches. Then Maul goes down and Sidious proceeds to show Dooku how to handle a lightsaber.

Yes, I have already accepted that Dooku will lose. Also you say that last bit like Sidious is leagues above Dooku with a saber. Better yes, but not by a huge amount. Force powers was the reason Sidious was the master, not duelling skills (in my opinion anyway).



clapclap

Originally posted by Advent


No. What am I going to be sore about exactly? I admitted I was wrong. So, what the hell - how am I "sore"? All I said was you're a moron, which you are.

Spartan, there's something you aren't getting. Proving someone wrong one time, doesn't mean anything, nor that you can do it again - otherwise mid-tiers like Nebaris would be able to destroy my posts all the time. And proving me wrong on something like a title is not impressive, or anything to gloat about. And it certainly doesn't mean I actually "spew bullshit" all the time. I said I was wrong, so what? You made shit up, that's what "bullshit" is.



Considering you make a big deal of it, and probably are setting off fireworks as we speak - I'd so say.



Yeah, it's no problem. I have no clue whatever makes anyone think Maul can beat our beloved, and most formal Count Dooku!
Fireworks? Nah, just gloating it over you, considering you have a very high opinion of yourself. You aren't worth it for pulling out any fireworks, though. Janus, maybe, but certainly not you.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Yes, I have already accepted that Dooku will lose. Also you say that last bit like Sidious is leagues above Dooku with a saber. Better yes, but not by a huge amount. Force powers was the reason Sidious was the master, not duelling skills (in my opinion anyway).



clapclap
Then why was Sidious able to litterally slaughter 3 of the Order's finest swordsmen? Dooku even says he's afraid of Sidious, and like I stated before, he wasn't even going to move against Sidious with Asajj's help and even says he's weaker than Sidious. Even GL stated that only Mace and Yoda could compete with Sidious, he never said Dooku could.

Lucas' Word= SW Law.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Fireworks? Nah, just gloating it over you, considering you have a very high opinion of yourself. You aren't worth it for pulling out any fireworks, though. Janus, maybe, but certainly not you.

Um, why would proving me wrong on a title matter to me really? Did I care when Nebaris proved my simple math wrong? Not in the least bit. Why? Because it's so insignificant that it doesn't matter at all. If you proved me wrong on an actual debate. Such as what I proved you wrong on here, then I'd actually be mad and probably go on a cursing rampage. But, that - of course - would never happen. Unless you're game enough to debate me in a full blown debate. As in a versus match, not "l0l revan is anc1ent". Because only God knows how that is even anything to gloat about.

And if you do want to talk about bullshit, how about lying about socking at Janus' forum? Lol.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Then why was Sidious able to litterally slaughter 3 of the Order's finest swordsmen? Dooku even says he's afraid of Sidious, and like I stated before, he wasn't even going to move against Sidious with Asajj's help and even says he's weaker than Sidious. Even GL stated that only Mace and Yoda could compete with Sidious, he never said Dooku could.

Lucas' Word= SW Law.

Fair enough. Im not saying that Dooku is better, merely that you are underestimating the Counts skill with a blade. Also Dooku could probably take out Mace's posse anyway. Certainly not as quickly, but I would think that he would have a good chance at defeating the 3 jedi. Sidious caught them by suprise anyway I think. Im quite sure they weren't expecting a 60+ year old man to come flying/spinning off his chair, lightsaber in hand, straight into their chests.

Originally posted by Advent
Um, why would proving me wrong on a title matter to me really? Did I care when Nebaris proved my simple math wrong? Not in the least bit. Why? Because it's so insignificant that it doesn't matter at all. If you proved me wrong on an actual debate. Such as what I proved you wrong on here, then I'd actually be mad and probably go on a cursing rampage. But, that - of course - would never happen. Unless you're game enough to debate me in a full blown debate. As in a versus match, not "l0l revan is anc1ent". Because only God knows how that is even anything to gloat about.

And if you do want to talk about bullshit, how about lying about socking at Janus' forum? Lol. Then why are you making a big deal over it? All I did was gloat about proving you wrong at your own game.

And why does everyone keep saying I socked at Janus' forum?! I WASN'T EVEN HERE! I was at California visiting my folks, they don't even own a computer.

At any rate, goodnight, I have to get some sleep.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Then why are you making a big deal over it? All I did was gloat about proving you wrong at your own game.

And what, pray tell, is my "game"? I'm not making a big deal about it, I'm just discussing the fact you keep talking shit, and how annoying you are. Big deal? Hardly.



Oh, really?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2821/orlyspartanrh5.jpg
Full picture: http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4342/spartengarbageyz9.th.jpg

Now, that holds no relevance at this moment, however, with your own testimony in the Battle Bar #2:

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Uh, no. I posted on the 14th(Before I left), and then posted on 23rd(Late at night, around 11:23 I think, when I got home, and got one post in the OTF before going to bed.). Don't lie, I checked my profile for recent posts, and they show me that you're lying, wasn't the first time you have, though.

If you came back the 23rd, how did you post on the 22nd early morning (9:00 AM)? Even being in California, the timezones don't give you an extra day (operating on EST).

Z0MGWTFBBQPWNED. LOLOLOL I OWN3D SPART4N!!!!!!?//?!ONEELEVENT.
^

Example of how stupid you sound, and also example of the fact u r teh bullsh1t.

In any case, whoever else reads this post - keep in mind that I don't care if this is off-topic, or if no one cares. I just wanted to laugh at Spartan for my own amusement, and also to counter the fact he said I give "bullshit".

Wow, poor Spartan.

He got owned..

Where the hell did that Ancient Sith crap come from? Did I miss a post?

Anyways, is this Grievous pre-shuttle crash, or pre-crush? Pre-Shuttle gets owned by either one in 1 second, and then whoever was fighting him destroys Dooku.

Maul could hold and possibly beat Dooku in Lightsaber combat, Force Powers are the determining factor, course if Maul Fights Dooku, then Sidious mops up Grievous long before Maul dies, and then Dooku dies

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Where the hell did that Ancient Sith crap come from? Did I miss a post?

Nowhere. Spartan brought it up after I crushed his post, because he felt he had to somehow redeem himself.



Where is your argument, Krieger? Quit making claims if you have no intention of backing them up. I've asked already, and you don't give me anything.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Anyways, is this Grievous pre-shuttle crash, or pre-crush? Pre-Shuttle gets owned by either one in 1 second, and then whoever was fighting him destroys Dooku.

This is CW GG. Before he gets force crushed by Mace. Also neither of the competitors would 'destroy' Dooku. Sidious would win with relarive ease. His force mastery is just too good for even the Count to handle. Maul would not beat Dooku, in any way shape or form.



No he couldnt. Read Advents posts, they pretty much sum it up. Dooku has had more experience, more training and a better form. Maul is just too inexperienced to handle the Cuont. This is the same Count that went toe to toe with Yoda after wtf pwning both Anakin and Obi-Wan. Maul lost to TPM Obi-Wan. Point moot.



No. Take away Dooku's force abilities and you have a more even match. But even then I would put Dooku above Maul.



Maul get wtf pwned by Dooku while GG gets pwned by Sidious. The remaining pair fight and Sidious eventually comes out on top. I doubt GG will lose against Sidious before Maul loses against Dooku.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
This is CW GG. Before he gets force crushed by Mace. Also neither of the competitors would 'destroy' Dooku. Sidious would win with relarive ease. His force mastery is just too good for even the Count to handle. Maul would not beat Dooku, in any way shape or form.



No he couldnt. Read Advents posts, they pretty much sum it up. Dooku has had more experience, more training and a better form. Maul is just too inexperienced to handle the Cuont. This is the same Count that went toe to toe with Yoda after wtf pwning both Anakin and Obi-Wan. Maul lost to TPM Obi-Wan. Point moot.



No. Take away Dooku's force abilities and you have a more even match. But even then I would put Dooku above Maul.



Maul get wtf pwned by Dooku while GG gets pwned by Sidious. The remaining pair fight and Sidious eventually comes out on top. I doubt GG will lose against Sidious before Maul loses against Dooku.

Dooku would be fighting both right after Grievous dies, Maul lasts that long. Darth Maul is capable of taking Anakin/Obi-Wan from AOTC, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan TPM were better. Maul lost because he was an overconfident moron at the last few seconds, instead of finishing it, he toyed with him, and got killed, TPM Obi lost. Maul probably can't beat Count Dooku, but he can last a long while.

With no Force Powers, Count Dooku would break his back upon moving, the old man that he is. Dooku's Force Grip can be Force Pushed, Lightning can possibly be blocked. I believe someone said Maul knew Grip, so Dooku would have to fight that if it was true. The Lightsaber fight would be very even. He beat Qui-Gon who at the time of TPM, was on par with Mace Windu

Maul doesn't get WTF PWNED, or PWNED at all, just loses. Grievous is too weak against Force Powers, and loses in however long it takes to do a full Crush. Maul lasts long enough for Sids to bail him out

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Darth Maul is capable of taking Anakin/Obi-Wan from AOTC, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan TPM were better.

Proof? You are probably right but I dont see how it aids your argument. Dooku did wtf pwn AOTC Kenobi and Skywalker. I am also quite sure he would pwn TPM Jinn and Kenobi as well. we know how easily he can pwn Kenobi at AOTC and ROTS level. TPM Kenobi wont be difficult. Also Jinn was Dooku's apprentice, the Count knows how he fights and knows how to effectively beat him. The point is whatever Maul can do Dooku can do, and to a better standard.




Fair enough. But arrogance is part of his nature. Whats to say he wont get arrogant in every fight he participates in.



I disagree.



Wtf. Dooku doesnt use the force to walk around. He is not a cripple. His flips etc use the force but not his day to day activity.



When I said Dooku couldnt use the force I meant offensive force powers eg lightning. I didnt mean he couldnt use the force together. He could still duel like he has the force aiding him.



They can both beat Qui-Gon. Point moot.



I disagree.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Fair enough. But arrogance is part of his nature. Whats to say he wont get arrogant in every fight he participates in.

Because he doesn't show arrogance unless it's someone he:

a.) knows he can beat.
b.) has beaten (on verge of).

There's nothing to suggest Maul would be arrogant, as Dooku clearly is his superior in this fight, but there's also nothing to suggest he'd be arrogant against any opponent that is close to him in terms of skill, or at least, decent. He didn't mess around with Qui-Gon for a reason we can only presume. He f*cked with Obi-Wan because Kenobi was a noob, and he did have him beat.

Actually, Obi-Wan was a newb, not a noob. he played like a pro, but Maul was simply at two high a level.

Originally posted by Advent
Because he doesn't show arrogance unless it's someone he:

a.) knows he can beat.
b.) has beaten (on verge of).

There's nothing to suggest Maul would be arrogant, as Dooku clearly is his superior in this fight, but there's also nothing to suggest he'd be arrogant against any opponent that is close to him in terms of skill, or at least, decent. He didn't mess around with Qui-Gon for a reason we can only presume. He f*cked with Obi-Wan because Kenobi was a noob, and he did have him beat.

Fair enough. But that means he will either A) lose against an opponent who is better than him e.g Dooku or B) beat someone (or as good as) but lose anyway because of his overconfidence.

Originally posted by Coleman Trebor
Actually, Obi-Wan was a newb, not a noob. he played like a pro, but Maul was simply at two high a level.

To me, they are the same thing. I am not an internet linguistics expert. Sorry!

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Fair enough. But that means he will either A) lose against an opponent who is better than him e.g Dooku or

Lol. Obviously he'll lose if they are better than him on paper.



If we made a versus match of Kenobi vs. Maul, Maul would win. Maul was only acting like an arrogant jackass because Kenobi was helpless. And luckily enough, there was another saber to grab, and also something to grab onto.

We really shouldn't factor Maul's arrogance in fights, as it really has no bearing on paper. In the movie, yes, but we do things on paper. In any case, Dooku is just as - if not more - arrogant than Maul, lol.

Of course, none of this changes the fact Dooku > Maul.

Someone is actually arguing otherwise?

LOL

Originally posted by Advent
If we made a versus match of Kenobi vs. Maul, Maul would win. Maul was only acting like an arrogant jackass because Kenobi was helpless. And luckily enough, there was another saber to grab, and also something to grab onto.

True. I guess it depends if Maul is arrogant in every fight, or if that was just a one off.



Lol, thats what I love about him. Although his arrogance doesnt put him at risk like Mauls did.



Amen.

Who said Maul was better than Dooku? I said he could last against him, and then Sids would come WTF PWN Dooku after sipping his tea and Force Crushing Grievous.

Maul only has to last like 10 Seconds tops, he can do that by using a Force Push, and his fancy Lightsaber skills, and then Sidious comes to pwn Dooku

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Who said Maul was better than Dooku?

Well, gee, let's see here - didn't you just say Maul was better than Dooku in saber combat? And that Dooku only wins if he gets a Force power in? Sorry to say, but Dooku > Maul in terms of pure saber handling.

Originally posted by Advent
Well, gee, let's see here - didn't you just say Maul was better than Dooku in saber combat? And that Dooku only wins if he gets a Force power in? Sorry to say, but Dooku > Maul in terms of pure saber handling.


Age, speed, strength and Juyo give him superior ability, that does not say that Maul is better than Dooku, Force Powers are what counts here, and Dooku can win in this department

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Age, speed, strength and Juyo give him superior ability,

Already proved forms don't matter much. The "ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat". And we do know that Count Dooku is able to call upon the Force so that "the weight of his years drop away". And since when does age matter when dealing with the top dogs of the PT? I suppose Obi-Wan > Yoda because Yoda is about 812 years older then? Of course not. You're clearly missing the fact that Dooku has the skill needed. Skill. It's a key ingredient in winning. Something Dooku has more of compared to Maul. And while Maul has the advantages of physical, it's not anything that will be able to stop Dooku. We do know Maul's saber was sliced in half by a padawan. A padawan. Whether or not Kenobi is better, or was pissed off - it doesn't matter. He got put into a dangerous position. Dooku against an enraged Kenobi? Uh, Kenobi would die in 3 seconds flat.

What makes you think Maul is a better duelist than a man who is described as being "one of the most powerful Jedi ever", as the direct quote does say twenty five thousand year history. And an "even greater Sith"?

We know Dooku is able to defeat General Grievous in combat (anyone who reads Dark Rendezvous knows that, and watched the CW cartoons). He is simply a lightsaber aficionado. Unless Maul > Grievous in lightsaber combat, how's Maul have a chance? Can Maul even hope to be able to hold off Yoda even after fighting AOTC Kenobi, and Anakin? I'd submit not.



He can win in saber combat too, your point?