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The only true believers? Or brain-washing cult?

What do you think?

Don't most religions have cults? or at least cultish aspects to them?

Totally. But, do you think the JWs are?

I think part of being religious is being cultish.

Good answer, so you wouldn't separate the two?

I guess we'd better need some definitions - according to freedictionary.com

RELIGION1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Well, I guess that kinda covers both options...

LEGITIMATE:
1. Being in compliance with the law; lawful: a legitimate business.
2. Being in accordance with established or accepted patterns and standards: legitimate advertising practices.
3. Based on logical reasoning; reasonable: a legitimate solution to the problem.
4. Authentic; genuine: a legitimate complaint.
5. Born of legally married parents: legitimate issue.
6. Of, relating to, or ruling by hereditary right: a legitimate monarch.
7. Of or relating to drama of high professional quality that excludes burlesque, vaudeville, and some forms of musical comedy: the legitimate theater.

Well, I guess only 2, 3 and 4 apply to this..

CULT

1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4a. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
b. followers of such a regimen
5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

I guess I'm thinking along no4 here, except you could think of 'curing a disease' as 'saving people from damnation' with elements of 1 as in it is seen as extremist and/or false.

So.....

Are JWs 'legitimate' in
2. Being in accordance with established or accepted patterns and standards: legitimate advertising practices.
3. Based on logical reasoning; reasonable: a legitimate solution to the problem.
4. Authentic; genuine: a legitimate complaint.

or a 'Cult' as in
A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator/followers to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease or in this case saving people from damnation, generally considered extremist or false.

Originally posted by Mithlond
The only true believers? Or brain-washing cult?

What do you think?

They are a cult, same as all religions. It is merely semantics that separates the term cult and the term religion. The designation is spurious dependant on the subjective view of the speaker.

Originally posted by Mithlond
The only true believers? Or brain-washing cult?

What do you think?

Wait... so what have the JW's done to earn the questioning of whether they are valid enough? Is this one of these Catholics/Mormons/JW/etc/etc aren't really Christian deals?

In my mind they are just as much a religion as most others. They don't strike me as particularly cultish. There are certainly more Cultish out there. As to whether there are the "only true believers"is another question entirely - but then I don't think any Christian denomination is really the "only true and right religion." But then I feel like that about most religions.

.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Wait... so what have the JW's done to earn the questioning of whether they are valid enough? Is this one of these Catholics/Mormons/JW/etc/etc aren't really Christian deals?

In my mind they are just as much a religion as most others. They don't strike me as particularly cultish. There are certainly more Cultish out there. As to whether there are the "only true believers"is another question entirely - but then I don't think any Christian denomination is really the "only true and right religion." But then I feel like that about most religions.

There has been a lot of talk of brain-washing in the JWs, which is why I particularly singled those out. I'm not saying they're Waco-types, just a topic for discussion.

Aren't most religions just a form of brain washing?

Originally posted by Alliance
Aren't most religions just a form of brain washing?

By definition any teaching is an attempt at brainwashing, and any learning is a sign of being brainwashed. No one can force you to have a particular view, it requires a desire on your part. If you go to church, or hang out with anyone period, you will slowly begin to be more like they are in your manner of thinking and behaving, this isn't brainwashing, it's just a fact of life. Brain washing is one of the conspiracy theorist's most amusing constructs, the fact is it is a fancy way of saying "teaching" that sounds more malicious.

I know. But "brain washing" serves my agenda.

Originally posted by Alliance
I know. But "brain washing" serves my agenda.

Yes, I can see how it does

In case you were wondering, the LDS Church is one of the best at it. We actually use the best teaching techniques available. It is one of the reasons I am LDS. If God had one true religion science would find that its methods of teaching were highly effective, and it has found that they are. I had a discussion on the fact with one of my favorite psychology professors during my undergraduate work, he and I compiled a list of techniques used in the religious practices, and found that nearly every aspect of the religion can be placed in some concept that promotes increased belief in the subject taught. I have a difficult time believing that the uneducated Joseph Smith and the men that were placed in leadership positions in the church could have come up with that much correct teaching practice on their own.

Why else do you think religion has survived?

Originally posted by Alliance
Why else do you think religion has survived?

Much of it I believe is a fear of death, combined with lack of plausible evidence in the past for those that would otherwise not be religious. I believe that the lack of ability to teach is evident in much of Christianity in the past 2000 years. I don't believe one can claim that Christianity was able to teach, it just adapted to those it wanted to assimilate. Ancestor worship led to saints, European pagan religions led to Satan/Pan combining, there are large numbers of examples of adaptation. Christianity, particularly Catholicism, didn't teach well, they adapted and assimilated. They would vilify the current religious leaders and then step in and say, "we believe as you do, see", your leaders are wrong and evil. They would then give the people what they wanted for a time and then press the beliefs that were not existent in the assimilated culture.

As to the survival of other religions, I am unsure as to how they did. Although, many survived because they provided necessary structure or behavior codes for survival and presented them in a manner that was typically somewhat voluntary for the adherents. This perceived voluntary behavior strengthened loyalty, imo.

I do not believe another religion can compare to the LDS Church as to effective teaching techniques, regardless of their success.

We are "spirit" we have a soul and we live in a physical body.

So, now you are attacking other Christians.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, now you are attacking other Christians.

Why do you characterize what I do as an attack?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do you characterize what I do as an attack?

Well, you are not showing them love.

YOU ATTACK EVERYONE!

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, you are not showing them love.

YOU ATTACK EVERYONE!

You are very vocal but your comments are unfounded. How have I not shown Jehovah's Witnesses love? If you are going to be accusatory (and this is your modus operandi) then substantiate your claim that I have attacked this person.

His comments are completely founded.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are very vocal but your comments are unfounded. How have I not shown Jehovah's Witnesses love? If you are going to be accusatory (and this is your modus operandi) then substantiate your claim that I have attacked this person.

So, you are not aware of the hate you post? I forgive you then.

Originally posted by Alliance
Don't most religions have cults? or at least cultish aspects to them?

I'd even go as far to say they are all cults.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I'd even go as far to say they are all cults.

Or all religions, doesn't make much difference in that case. But I agree.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you are not aware of the hate you post? I forgive you then.

You still have not defined or substantiated your accusatory claims that you direct at me regularly. If I post a Bible excerpt you call it lies. Then you say that I am spreading lies. I post someone's personal near-death experience and you falsely accuse me of "attacking" that person. I have done nothing of the sort. Why do you do and say these things about me falsely?

Could you post the quote for when Shak supposedly called you out for attacking a person who had a near-death experience?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You still have not defined or substantiated your accusatory claims that you direct at me regularly. If I post a Bible excerpt you call it lies. Then you say that I am spreading lies. I post someone's personal near-death experience and you falsely accuse me of "attacking" that person. I have done nothing of the sort. Why do you do and say these things about me falsely?

You're posts speak for themselves.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, now you are attacking other Christians.

Here is Shak's false, unfounded accusation just like all of his other ones are. Shak. you have yet to substantiate your charge that I am attacking Jehovah's Witnesses.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Here is Shak's false, unfounded accusation just like all of his other ones are. Shak. you have yet to substantiate your charge that I am attacking Jehovah's Witnesses.



I know you did not write the article, but did you read it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Here is Shak's false, unfounded accusation just like all of his other ones are. Shak. you have yet to substantiate your charge that I am attacking Jehovah's Witnesses.

This is rediculous....all your posts are unfounded, biased, and nonsensical accusations. NO ONE is going to defend you.

Originally posted by Mithlond
CULT

1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4a. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
b. followers of such a regimen
5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

I guess I'm thinking along no4 here, except you could think of 'curing a disease' as 'saving people from damnation' with elements of 1 as in it is seen as extremist and/or false.


Hmmm, sounds alot like atheism to me!

Atheism
1. Worship yourself, nobody really matters unless you was brought up otherwise.
2. A nonscientific method(evolution) or regimen claimed by its originator(Darwin) to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
3. Obsessive(People who get into it seem to get stuck with it)
4. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic interest. (The disliking of religion)
5. usually considered false.

Yep

Atheism created by Darwin?

Atheism = worshipping yourself?

Posting obvious nonsense like that is not worthy of any consideration, OGW. More to the point, stick to the topic.

Originally posted by O Green World
Hmmm, sounds alot like atheism to me!

Atheism
1. Worship yourself, nobody really matters unless you was brought up otherwise.
2. A nonscientific method(evolution) or regimen claimed by its originator(Darwin) to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
3. Obsessive(People who get into it seem to get stuck with it)
4. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic interest. (The disliking of religion)
5. usually considered false.

Yep

None of these posts are representative of atheism at all.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know you did not write the article, but did you read it.

Of course I read it...? Now, why did you accuse me of attacking Jehovah's Witness? Shak, the only reason that I am insistent that you explain to me why you have accused me falsely is because I percieve and believer (firmly) that you do this often. But everytime I believe that it is unwarranted. So, I guess I am still waiting for you to justify your insinuation. I will not let you get out of this one this issue needs to be settled and resolved once and for all. I know what an attack is. What I did (and all I did was post someone's personal testimony of a near-death experience) does not constitute and attack. I want to know why you view it as an attack on Jehovah's Witnesses. Why are you running from your own mess? You caused the controversy and now that you are being held accountable you have nothing to say?

JIA, you posted a large article purporting to demonstrate that JWs are perpetuating a lie. By any reasonable definition, that was an anti-JW artcile you posted, and so therefore you did post an attack on Witnesses.

Asking for justification for a stsatement you did that, when the fact that yoiu did is plain for all to see, is a waste of everyone's time. You will have to accept that what you did is reasonably construed as attack.

In response to the topic, I would say that yes they are a bit more cultish than the rest, although I agree with popular opinion here that it is a matter of semantics anyway being that all religions are somewhat of a cult, but the major difference with JW being that they're a bit more extremist in their beliefs and in someways forcibly so. Not to mention the fact that it was started by a rich millionaire.

Their ideology is basically if you are not part of their religion and you do not believe what they say you're branded as an outsider and you're forbidden to associate with outsiders. Basically the message is if you do not accept their word as gospel truth you will die on judgement day when the Armageddon comes. Almost like a cleansing if you will. There is no such thing as a heaven or hell when it comes to human beings. It's only salvation and damnation. If you survive you will live in a God made paradise right here on Earth and if you die you just cease to exist period, no belief in souls or spirits but they do believe in angels and demons and satan himself except instead of reigning in Hell he walks among us right here on Earth. No belief in purgatory..etc.

I had a friend who was a JW, they're rules were extremely strict. He was not allowed to make friends or have girlfriends outside his religion. He was not allowed to fornicate or even engage in any behavior that would eventually lead to fornication. He was not allowed to celebrate holidays or even his very own birthday. He was a great guy, real funny too, had a great sense of humor but in the end under pressure from his religious brothers and his family, he ended up choosing his religion over me. I understood, to each his own I suppose. I still kinda miss em to this day. I truly hope he's happy and wish him nothing but the best. Btw, the thing that made him so funny is that among the things I mentioned you were also not allowed to curse, this guy could crack you up without saying a single curse word, that's how funny he was.

As far as the article goes, either this whole story is bogus or that woman doesn't remember her teachings well. JWs believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God. They believe in God 'Jehova' and Jesus Christ his son. They do not believe in the so called 'Trinity' ideology of them all being the same person or of Jesus as a God himself, so this part of the article is definitely incorrect and completely untrue.

Some Jehovah's Witnesses showed up at my door this morning. I was still in bed, so they got me in my boxers and a Steelers jersey I managed to throw on before answering.

Part of me wants to take them in and debate the sh*t out of them sometime when they show up. If nothing else, KMC has helped me with the ability to defend myself on a moment's notice against all sorts of ideas and claims, religious or otherwise. But another part of me knows that I'd end up frustrated and/or annoyed with the whole thing.

Cultish? Sure, probably. But as most have been saying, religions usually inherently possess cultish tendencies. Hell, I was in an active church youth group back in the day, and we jokingly referred to ourselves as a cult. Chances are there was some truth to it.

They actually seem a lot more reasonable than most christian sects, from what I understand of their beliefs.

Originally posted by King Kandy
They actually seem a lot more reasonable than most christian sects, from what I understand of their beliefs.

...which reminds me: Can somebody Cliff's Note them for me? I'm a former Catholic and am familiar with a few other Christian denominations, but not this one. There's just too many brands of crazy to familiarize myself with them all.

1. Hyper-fundamentalist, creationist, etc...

2. The Watchtower carries authority over the bible (reminds me of Catholicism).

3. You should call god "Jehovah" because that's his name, and it's more respectful to call people by their proper names.

4. Jesus is a created god independent of Jehovah, and so is literally his son as opposed to part of him.

5. Satan was only recently cast out from heaven, and we are living in end-times as we speak... it's just a slower process than many think.

6. Nobody goes to hell. If you aren't a Jehovah's Witness, you just die and that's the end of it. God couldn't be all loving if he sent people to hell, the logic goes.

7. There is paradise after death, but on earth rather than heaven. Heaven's limited to 144,000 specially chosen people to be divine bureaucrats, apparently.

Originally posted by King Kandy
1. Hyper-fundamentalist, creationist, etc...

2. The Watchtower carries authority over the bible (reminds me of Catholicism).

3. You should call god "Jehovah" because that's his name, and it's more respectful to call people by their proper names.

4. Jesus is a created god independent of Jehovah, and so is literally his son as opposed to part of him.

5. Satan was only recently cast out from heaven, and we are living in end-times as we speak... it's just a slower process than many think.

6. Nobody goes to hell. If you aren't a Jehovah's Witness, you just die and that's the end of it. God couldn't be all loving if he sent people to hell, the logic goes.

7. There is paradise after death, but on earth rather than heaven. Heaven's limited to 144,000 specially chosen people to be divine bureaucrats, apparently.

1. EVANGELISM. denomination free-churches held in movie theatres with 'modern hymns' displayed on a screen. this is already 'accepted' as a part of conservative christianity.

2. sounds cultish. but... who is "in" the watchtower. spiritual leaders? can it be compared as vatican:watchtower pope:spiritual leader? then, obviously smacks of catholicism, but may perhaps be a different interpretation on the church st. paul started..

3. people of the jewish faith call god 'yahweh.' they want to call him by his name. jehovah is mentioned in the bible in one of the many prophecies we see in the old testament. handel's 'the messiah' was based off scripture... ' wonderful, counselor, all-mighty god the everlasting father, the prince of peace.' jehovah could be aramaic, latin, greek... for messiah.

4. somewhat christian. the "three in one" principle played out a little two far. jesus is often seen as separate from the "father" and the "holy ghost" because he is the only part of god that was both fully divine and fully human. obviously this gets very confusing if you want to totally understand christianity and are not willing to take something on faith. when jesus was on earth, he knew he was god's son, but was yet separate because he did not know what his life was supposed to be about. probably didn't know about the crucifixtion until that week, beginning with palm sunday, maunday thursday, good friday, and the resurrection three days later. this further un-synched 'son of god god' makes him seem even more separate.

5. what is recent for god? how long is seven days to create the world? is god's seven days measured to us in billions of years? similarly, how 'recent' is recent for satan? also, moderate to liberal churches play with the idea that we are all going through hell now - our lives on earth are actually in hell, because jesus + cross saved us from the 'real' hell, but we still have to pay for adam +eve + apple.

6. universalism is popular concept, using that same logic. except editing out the jehovah's witness part.

7. complete and utter rubbish. similar to greek system of death - every one goes to hades if you are good, you go to elysian fields. bad go across styx to bad person hell. regular people are reincarnated for another chance to go to elysian fields. also comparable to catholic death system, except lots more crazy. there is no set number for heaven, neither is there a place designated for it.

Originally posted by Ordo
I think part of being religious is being cultish.

Indeed, sir.

"Legitimate Religion or Extremist Cult?" is just semantics.

Because there definitely aren't any religious moderates in the world.

pejorative use of the term "cult"...

That connotation is so memetically embedded that it shows up in dictionaries.

I guess that is how words get their meanings...

seems like a useless term when just used as "religion I want to bash"

Yes.

Much the same way as 'gang' is used as 'group' (more accurately, 'tribe') that I want to bash.

I'm not a Jehovah's witness, so I am not very motivated to start any further discussion here, but here's a bit on some things you said.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
5. what is recent for god? how long is seven days to create the world? is god's seven days measured to us in billions of years? similarly, how 'recent' is recent for satan? also, moderate to liberal churches play with the idea that we are all going through hell now - our lives on earth are actually in hell, because jesus + cross saved us from the 'real' hell, but we still have to pay for adam +eve + apple.
"Recent" is October 1st, 1914. That's when Satan got cast out.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
7. complete and utter rubbish. similar to greek system of death - every one goes to hades if you are good, you go to elysian fields. bad go across styx to bad person hell. regular people are reincarnated for another chance to go to elysian fields. also comparable to catholic death system, except lots more crazy. there is no set number for heaven, neither is there a place designated for it.
I don't see why you are so aggressive here, I'd think I made it clear I was just summarizing their beliefs. In JW, there IS a set number for heaven. That's not up for debate. But it's not worse to go to earthly paradise. In fact it's better, because if you're in heaven you spend all your time working as administrators. It's not a sliding scale, not at all, heaven is basically an office building in JW.

i feel that i should offer some input as i live with a family of jehovahs witnesses...

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i feel that i should offer some input as i live with a family of jehovahs witnesses...

okay....

...?



Anyway, thanks for the rundown KK.

well im not a witness so i dont want to preach their message like i8m 100% sure of what it is.

what ill instead do is just bring blax over here.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Because there definitely aren't any religious moderates in the world.

Not really, not in this instance, given that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that transfusions of organs and blood are wrong in the eyes of their lord.

They would prefer to let their child die than accept the treatment.
What sort of sick c**t inflicts their beliefs on a child like that...?
That is the sort of shit that you NEVER can apply the term moderate to.
I had Jehovah's marry into my family, converting my Cousin.
Thank f*** that didnt last too long. She saw sense, didnt really believe...

The c***s always wake you up on Sunday knocking at your door, for a religious conversation.*

Like most faith organisations, they sniff out the weak, with their proactive approach, then try pressure them into buying their f***ed perception of the world, lest ye not be saved when the time comes etc etc usual generic brainwashing tactics...



* "Conversation" of course, meaning they blank anything you might say that conflicts with their beliefs, whilst they soley want to convert the weak and vulnerable, of course.

To be fair, the watchtower allows "elements" of blood such as plasma to be transferred now.

Oh how progressive of them.

Originally posted by inimalist
pejorative use of the term "cult"...

I think they spelled the "n" wrong....It seemed to come out as an "l" for some reason.

'Sup, Bitches. Long time no see. 'Tis the Blaxican here. I miss you guys and feel like a dumbass for leaving.

Anyways... to put out the wildfire of ignorance with the waterbottle of awesometruth.




Originally posted by siriuswriter
1. EVANGELISM. denomination free-churches held in movie theatres with 'modern hymns' displayed on a screen. this is already 'accepted' as a part of conservative christianity.



I don't know if you're being literal or not but your description is only semi-accurate. Witnesses' sing before and after the meeting sessions, and depending on the length sometimes in the middle.

Definitely Conservative on many things. Intelligent Design is the most accepted idea. "It's possible Jehovah simply created evolution". Science is only disregarded when it directly contradicts Jehovah's existence.



Incorrect. The Ministry has stated many times that ultimately the interpretations it has of the Bible are based off of Human imperfect understanding. Whereas the writing of the bible is strictly Divinely inspired and thus "flawless", the literature produced by the Ministry is not. There have been "retcons" and many retractions of statements in the Ministry's word.



There is ultimately a chairman but there isn't one figure who is responsible for all of the interpretations and the like. The Bible itself is seen as the only worldly thing with ultimate authority.




Pretty much.



Correct. Also Witnesses' interpret certain scriptures to say that No one knows when the world will end, not even the angels and Jesus, only Jehovah himself.

4. There is no holy trinity. There is Jehovah, and his angels, Jesus being one of them. After Armageddon Jesus will become king of Earth, but only Jehovah is worshiped. When you pray Jesus is praised and admired for his sacrifice but only Jehovah is "worshiped".



Just for reference, Witnesses' say "no" to the cross. Assuming the history around him is real, the man died on a wooden pole just like everyone else did. His arms were nailed together above his head. They weren't outstretched.

6. There is "hell", but only for very special people. Judas is going to that hell, I believe. However regular old people like us aren't going to hell. If you don't survive Armageddon, you're dead.



Wrong. There is only a limited number of people who will reside in Heaven. These people are called "The Anointed", and will help Jesus govern the Earthly Paradise after Armageddon. Only 144,000 people will become Anointed. The rest will just live on Earth in Paradise in eternal happiness and peace. If you are judged unworthy during Armageddon then you are killed and that is the end. You gets no Paradise, but you don't go to Hell either. You just cease to exist on all planes.





It's not "sick" if you genuinely believe that you're saving your child from destruction. The Bible states that going against God's wishes to save your imperfect life in this "system of things" shows that you value this life more then the eternal life you're supposed to get. Though, as noted blood plasmas are aloud though full blown transplants aren't.



In their defense, they don't brainwash people anymore then the Government and schools and corporations do.

Hope you enjoyed your lesson for the day, kiddos. 131 Tell Robbie I miss his ***** ass too. haermm

Sweet, I got pretty much everything right...

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
6. There is "hell", but only for very special people. Judas is going to that hell, I believe. However regular old people like us aren't going to hell. If you don't survive Armageddon, you're dead.

Are you certain about that? I could find nothing indicating there is any hell at all, officially.

At one time at the start of Christianity during its infancy, by and large the mainstream of society, e.g.: the Romans who still believed in the pantheon gods, and the Jews considered any who were called Christians (those jews that followed in Jesus' example of love, tolerance and a personal relationship with God) were called cultists and his brand of judaism a cult. That's just my opinion though.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
'Sup, Bitches. Long time no see. 'Tis the Blaxican here. I miss you guys and feel like a dumbass for leaving.

Anyways... to put out the wildfire of ignorance with the waterbottle of awesometruth.

It's not "sick" if you genuinely believe that you're saving your child from destruction. The Bible states that going against God's wishes to save your imperfect life in this "system of things" shows that you value this life more then the eternal life you're supposed to get. Though, as noted blood plasmas are aloud though full blown transplants aren't.



In their defense, they don't brainwash people anymore then the Government and schools and corporations do.

Hope you enjoyed your lesson for the day, kiddos. 131 Tell Robbie I miss his ***** ass too. haermm

Nope its sick/delluded. Period. Since its all silly made up fairy stories designed for control...Its like me saying the child must die cause I like the Star Wars and Vader lightsabred a bunch of kids.
Religion as child abuse.

Anyone with a low IQ enough to see life that way should be sterilised for the good of mankind, imo.

Yes governments and corporations are all a part of the control thing, but it doesnt offer mitigation of these irresponible pricks.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nope its sick/delluded. Period. Since its all silly made up fairy stories designed for control...Its like me saying the child must die cause I like the Star Wars and Vader lightsabred a bunch of kids.
Religion as child abuse.

Anyone with a low IQ enough to see life that way should be sterilised for the good of mankind, imo.

Yes governments and corporations are all a part of the control thing, but it doesnt offer mitigation of these irresponible pricks.

You hate religion, don't you?



No biggie.







And, after reading a bit about Jay Dubs, as I call them, they have similar beliefs to what we do.

God and Jesus are separate beings.

Very few people actually go to hell with the rest going to some sort of heaven. (But we believe EVERY person has the potential to obtain the "best" heaven.)

Science is good. (But, it would appear that limitations are put on some medical procedures by the Jay Dubs. Not sure why, even after reading the description.)

However, most of the other stuff, we don't believe.


We don't believe the bible to be perfect, nor the book of Mormon, etc. etc. That's because man wrote it, not God. It's just that man was "divinely inspired" as he wrote it.

All of the JWs that I've met have been....normal. Other than the "no parties" thing and the medical stuff, I don't see them as extremist Christians.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Science is good. (But, it would appear that limitations are put on some medical procedures by the Jay Dubs. Not sure why, even after reading the description.)
Mosaic law says that you cannot consume any blood. They feel that transfusions count as violating this.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Mosaic law says that you cannot consume any blood. They feel that transfusions count as violating this.

Yeah, I still don't get that since the blood isn't eaten, it is used. To me, that is an example of taking things out of intended context. The law was talking about sacrificers that drank blood during rituals. It was a polytheistic thing. It was given by God (or Moses, if you're atheist) to the Jews as part of things to differentiate them from other religious sects. It was also a "health" issue as drinking blood doesn't bode well with the human body.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yeah, I still don't get that since the blood isn't eaten, it is used. To me, that is an example of taking things out of intended context. The law was talking about sacrificers that drank blood during rituals. It was a polytheistic thing. It was given by God (or Moses, if you're atheist) to the Jews as part of things to differentiate them from other religious sects. It was also a "health" issue as drinking blood doesn't bode well with the human body.
They feel the word "eating" is actually a mistranslation, and it should be closer in meaning to "consume" or "put in your body".

Originally posted by King Kandy
They feel the word "eating" is actually a mistranslation, and it should be closer in meaning to "consume" or "put in your body".

I consider this translational ignorance, especially when we know better...even IF you look as the text as more of a social and language document than a religious text.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You hate religion, don't you?



No biggie.







And, after reading a bit about Jay Dubs, as I call them, they have similar beliefs to what we do.

God and Jesus are allegedly, supposedly by believers, separate beings.

No people actually go to hell.

Science is good. (But, it would appear that limitations are put on some medical procedures by the Jay Dubs. Not sure why, even after reading the description.)

However, most of the other stuff, we don't believe.


We don't believe the bible to be perfect, nor the book of Mormon, etc. etc. That's because man wrote it, not God. It's just that man was "divinely inspired" as he wrote it.

All of the JWs that I've met have been....normal. Other than the "no parties" thing and the medical stuff, I don't see them as extremist Christians.
Mostly I do. Yes.
I have nothin on Taoism or Buddism, really so far...

I hate it like ANYTHING man made that delludes people and is essentially a death cult that permits all sorts of bad behavior in life as long as you are down with your forgiving entity.

Espeically, when it tries to tell others how to think/live/feel 24/7.
Especially especially when family memebers lives are threatened by it. Yes.

But I have looked into religion THEN arrived that that conclusion, its not prejudicial position.

Religion can be overidden/seen through with basic logic, thought etc, Its hardcore practioners are the problem.

Corrected a few lines in the first bit of your post.
Thank you for the cander in the rest of it, regarding your POV asa mormon. You will notice that I left that alone.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I consider this translational ignorance, especially when we know better...even IF you look as the text as more of a social and language document than a religious text.
Oh really? Do you know ancient hebrew? I doubt it.

I know this is an old thread but the truth is the Jeovah Witnesses are an evil death cult/satanic. They protect legit killers/murderers/pedophiles and their not Christians (I have to keep telling people this but its a fact) as they put their propoganda (the watchtower) above the word of Jesus Christ. Their basically devil worshippers and mad evil I show these people zero respect and they deserve to be ostracized from society along with Scientologists.

Theirs no difference between the Jeovah Witnesses and Nazis.

Ahh they are just trying to get the word out I suppose.........

I do think they are somewhat of a cult yet........

Cult. So is Mormonism and Roman Catholicism. Only actual fundamentalist, biblical Christianity is legitimate.

Persecuted religion no more crazy than most.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Cult. So is Mormonism and Roman Catholicism. Only actual fundamentalist, biblical Christianity is legitimate. what about the oldest church the Orthodox? All branches are much older than your version of Christianity.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
what about the oldest church the Orthodox? All branches are much older than your version of Christianity.

That's why his religion is better, it's newer

Though one has to wonder why something that is from God, needed to be reenvisioned so many times. You'd think an omniscient and omnipotent being would have had it correct the first time.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's why his religion is better, it's newer

Though one has to wonder why something that is from God, needed to be reenvisioned so many times. You'd think an omniscient and omnipotent being would have had it correct the first time. Ahh, but man has been the problem since the Garden of Eden. That's why Gabriel visited Mo in the cave.

Claiming an angel visited you in some cave is no less whack than talking snakes and fruit bestowing all knowledge upon consumption.

Originally posted by Robtard
Claiming an angle visited you in some cave is no less whack than talking snakes and fruit bestowing all knowledge upon consumption. You say!

Originally posted by Robtard
That's why his religion is better, it's newer

Though one has to wonder why something that is from God, needed to be reenvisioned so many times. You'd think an omniscient and omnipotent being would have had it correct the first time.


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