Your Church

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



debbiejo
What makes YOUR church the ONE and only one, or is it not the only one, and why do you go there???

Oh, do you need one to feel you are close to what you may the spirit?

Mithlond
My personal beliefs are that belief and religion is more a way of life than what building you choose to frequent. Thus, I have beliefs but don't go to a church.

Alliance
confused I don't have a church....

Regret
Originally posted by debbiejo
What makes YOUR church the ONE and only one, or is it not the only one, and why do you go there???

Oh, do you need one to feel you are close to what you may the spirit?

If religion exists, there should only be one that can be the ONE. Thus, mine is, otherwise I should not belong to it. Whether or not it is, if a person belongs to a religion they should believe this. If a person does not believe in a religion, then they should believe they do not need one and believe that there is not one that is the ONE, by the same logic.

If a person doesn't believe this way, then they are stupid for following their religion, or lack thereof, imo.

DigiMark007
Hell, the most religion I get anymore is either through my own personal reading when I'm curious about stuff, or here on KMC. So, would that make this forum my church??

confused

wink

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Regret
If religion exists, there should only be one that can be the ONE. Thus, mine is, otherwise I should not belong to it. Whether or not it is, if a person belongs to a religion they should believe this. If a person does not believe in a religion, then they should believe they do not need one and believe that there is not one that is the ONE, by the same logic.

If a person doesn't believe this way, then they are stupid for following their religion, or lack thereof, imo.

Not necessarily. Plenty of people who are religious don't buy into the concept that thier religion is the only one worth being into....some people just think thier religion is what's best for them, and still respect and recognize other people's religions.

I think the "All or Nothing" logic is more dangerous. I think it's more sensible to be Agnostic than Athiest...or religious.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
What makes YOUR church the ONE and only one, or is it not the only one, and why do you go there???

Oh, do you need one to feel you are close to what you may the spirit?

I don't have a church. I have an alter in my house, and I chant and do Gongyo there every morning and evening. My religion is not the only good religion out there. There are many religions that are good. The problem is people. Not all people, in all religions, are good, some are evil, and even fewer are very evil. There is no religion that is without these evil people. Therefore, there is no religion that can claim to be superior.

Regret
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not necessarily. Plenty of people who are religious don't buy into the concept that their religion is the only one worth being into....some people just think their religion is what's best for them, and still respect and recognize other people's religions.

I think the "All or Nothing" logic is more dangerous. I think it's more sensible to be Agnostic than Athiest...or religious.

Yes, I agree with what you are stating. But I think those people "who are religious but don't buy into the concept that their religion is the only one worth being into....some people just think their religion is what's best for them" are undeclared agnostic, but attend a religion.

I don't believe people should not "respect and recognize other people's religions", I just believe that one needs to be opinionated. I believe you should believe what you believe, just be rational if your belief proves to be wrong. I do not believe in sitting on the fence, the grass is green somewhere, but it doesn't do you any good if you just sit there trying to decide where it is greener, you just waste your time.

Regret
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't have a church. I have an alter in my house, and I chant and do Gongyo there every morning and evening. My religion is not the only good religion out there. There are many religions that are good. The problem is people. Not all people, in all religions, are good, some are evil, and even fewer are very evil. There is no religion that is without these evil people. Therefore, there is no religion that can claim to be superior.

But the question is, why is your choice of path to enlightenment the more correct one? wink

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Regret
But the question is, why is your choice of path to enlightenment the more correct one? wink

It is not the more correct one. It is the more correct one for me.

Regret
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is not the more correct one. It is the more correct one for me.

I thought that the Nicheran author claimed that a person could not achieve enlightenment via another path? I admit I am not knowledgable on the subject.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Regret
I thought that the Nicheran author claimed that a person could not achieve enlightenment via another path? I admit I am not knowledgable on the subject.

Yes, Nicheran was a fundamentalist Buddhist. However, I am not Nicheran, and I do not know what he knew. I do not know enough to say that other religions cannot lead to enlightenment. BTW Nicheran did not know of religions other then Buddhism.

Regret
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, Nicheran was a fundamentalist Buddhist. However, I am not Nicheran, and I do not know what he knew. I do not know enough to say that other religions cannot lead to enlightenment. BTW Nicheran did not know of religions other then Buddhism.

Ok, thanks smile I apologize if my post was offensive at all, was just clarifying what I knew of your beliefs.

It would be interesting to know what he would have stated had he known, are there current lines of thought among the Nicheran Buddhists as to this?

Alliance
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not necessarily. Plenty of people who are religious don't buy into the concept that thier religion is the only one worth being into....some people just think thier religion is what's best for them, and still respect and recognize other people's religions.

I think the "All or Nothing" logic is more dangerous. I think it's more sensible to be Agnostic than Athiest...or religious.

Thats because you don't understand that many athiests and agnostics also question their faith.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Regret
Ok, thanks smile I apologize if my post was offensive at all, was just clarifying what I knew of your beliefs.

It would be interesting to know what he would have stated had he known, are there current lines of thought among the Nicheran Buddhists as to this?

No offence taken. I think he would have rejected it at first, but would have been intrigued with what Jesus had to say. But I don't know, cultural and language barriers may have been too strong of an obstacle to over come for him. After all, he was just a human.

Alliance
Originally posted by Regret
If a person does not believe in a religion, then they should believe they do not need one and believe that there is not one that is the ONE, by the same logic.

If there is no god, how does religion make any sense?

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
If there is no god, how does religion make any sense?

That is still a stance on religion. You believe that there isn't one true religion, in fact, that there is no truth to religion. You fit my statement.

Alliance
Originally posted by Regret
That is still a stance on religion. You believe that there isn't one true religion, in fact, that there is no truth to religion. You fit my statement.
But that is incorrect...I believe that religious philosophy is beneficial. I just remove all the supernatural crap.

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
But that is incorrect...I believe that religious philosophy is beneficial. I just remove all the supernatural crap.

I am sorry if I was wrong in my statement concerning your belief. I don't see how this statement doesn't fit you all the same:

Alliance does not believe in a religion, he believes he does not need one and believes that there is not one that is the ONE.

Alliance
But there is no reason to believe in gods. No evidence. Its just idea that are told so often from birth, you believe its true.

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
But there is no reason to believe in gods. No evidence. Its just idea that are told so often from birth, you believe its true.

In your opinion. I would disagree, but then, I am on the other side of the debate.

I believe there is evidence, but what I consider evidence would not be well received. You have statements of countless atheists that will disagree with the many religious statements as to the evidence of a God. Atheist statements are biased and as such they hold no more weight than the statement of a person who is religious as to the existence of God. All you have is statements of belief one way or the other. I do not believe that man could come up with the concept of God on his own, there is no evidence of such occurring. Show me the evidence that man is capable of such, there is none. Can you find ancient writings that show the evolution of the concept? There are none, if God is a man made construct then there should be some evidence of the evolution of the concept. Our earliest findings on religion have God present, not some median being that would be a stepping stone between the lack of concept and the full blown concept of God. This to me, is a scientific evidence for the possibility.

Alliance
Originally posted by Regret
In your opinion. I would disagree, but then, I am on the other side of the debate.

I believe there is evidence, but what I consider evidence would not be well received. You have statements of countless atheists that will disagree with the many religious statements as to the evidence of a God. Atheist statements are biased and as such they hold no more weight than the statement of a person who is religious as to the existence of God. All you have is statements of belief one way or the other. I do not believe that man could come up with the concept of God on his own, there is no evidence of such occurring. Show me the evidence that man is capable of such, there is none. Can you find ancient writings that show the evolution of the concept? There are none, if God is a man made construct then there should be some evidence of the evolution of the concept. Our earliest findings on religion have God present, not some median being that would be a stepping stone between the lack of concept and the full blown concept of God. This to me, is a scientific evidence for the possibility.

The issue with this is...

1. You are talking about history, which at that time is not well documented.

2. Man HAD to invent religion. There was no religion, then you see evidence of one. A new one pops up. Again and again. New customs arise. New gods arise. New concepts of gods arise, specifically addressing the philisophical needs of the time.

3. "I believe there is evidence, but what I consider evidence would not be well received." Well recieved by whom, the community? That tends to point out that your "evidence" is not evidence at all.

God is an illogical concept, it goes against the very nature of nature. It dictates that there is something greater, on some level, in control of it. (if a "god" doesnt do this, it seemingly is not a god, as it has no consequence)

The only thing controlling nature is natural laws.

JOE NUNEZ
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hell, the most religion I get anymore is either through my own personal reading when I'm curious about stuff, or here on KMC. So, would that make this forum my church??

confused

wink big grin Funny man of the year award...

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
The issue with this is...

1. You are talking about history, which at that time is not well documented.

Exactly. There is no historical evidence either way.

Originally posted by Alliance
2. Man HAD to invent religion. There was no religion, then you see evidence of one. A new one pops up. Again and again. New customs arise. New gods arise. New concepts of gods arise, specifically addressing the philisophical needs of the time.

There is no evidence of a period where there was not religion. You make a claim based on absolutely no fact. Man did not HAVE to invent religion, it is a spurious claim with no evidence, "You are talking about history, which at that time is not well documented."

Originally posted by Alliance
3. "I believe there is evidence, but what I consider evidence would not be well received." Well recieved by whom, the community? That tends to point out that your "evidence" is not evidence at all.

And some people claimed the world was round, this wasn't well received by early communities, did "that tends to point out that the "evidence"" for the world being round was "not evidence at all"? Just because people will not accept something does not invalidate it. It may only show ignorance.

Originally posted by Alliance
God is an illogical concept, it goes against the very nature of nature. It dictates that there is something greater, on some level, in control of it. (if a "god" doesnt do this, it seemingly is not a god, as it has no consequence)

The only thing controlling nature is natural laws.

Natural laws are natural laws, claiming God does not mean that natural laws did not exist, at least not from my view. It is illogical to claim a being existed and there was no law governing that existence, God or otherwise, it is not illogical to claim that God exists, and uses these natural laws to do what he does.

Claims against the existence of God have as much support as claims to the existence of such.

debbiejo
I don't believe people really need a church. It's just a gathering place of like minded people, though it has turned into a place of propaganda in some instances..........Like even how a person should vote and told you should! Otherwise leave out the door.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by debbiejo
What makes YOUR church the ONE and only one, or is it not the only one, and why do you go there???

Oh, do you need one to feel you are close to what you may the spirit?

Because I'm in it. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

As I've said before, I don't really have a Church. I like Hinduism (mainly Ganesh) for many reasons, it is just a very worthy religion in a conceptual sense to me, and I also like Buddhism in a philosophical sense. I like certain pagan traditions for cultural and narrative reasons. They feel good to me and I enjoy the mythology and the history.

So really it is all very mental for me.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.