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To powerful Magic team both teams get 10 days of prep

Doctor Strange- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Strange

&

Clea- http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/index.php/Clea

Way to hard to determine, almost impossible really

Giving uber magical users prep is so hard to predict

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Way to hard to determine, almost impossible really

Giving uber magical users prep is so hard to predict
Not really, no.

Clea isn't needed here.

Strange alone cannot take on these two

That's debatable because he is the Sorcerer Supreme

Originally posted by golem370
That's debatable because he is the Sorcerer Supreme

Talisman is the Jesus of the Native Americans.

"The Talisman is a mortal channel through which the gods can fight and is the breaker of Dark Spells, the one who binds all evil."

Earth Gods? and can these gods compare to the Vishanti?

Originally posted by golem370
Earth Gods? and can these gods compare to the Vishanti?

Don't know which gods as it was never revealed, but donning the Talisman she said to have godhood powers herself. Unknown, I honestly couldn't say. She's so strong she can control the Gods of the Arctic and the Great Beasts to her will because they were from the Spirit Realm.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Strange alone cannot take on these two
Why not? They certainly aren't as powerful as him and with prep, they've never reached the same level he has reached with prep. He has a skill, experience(He's older than both combined) and a power advantage on his side. Not to mention the MASSIVE....M A S S I V E advantage of having more magical contacts who rate on the top 10 most powerful beings in existance that would help him out in a pinch.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Don't know which gods as it was never revealed, but donning the Talisman she said to have godhood powers herself. Unknown, I honestly couldn't say. She's so strong she can control the Gods of the Arctic and the Great Beasts to her will because they were from the Spirit Realm.
Nature Gods.

Strange calls them "Sprites" and keeps them in his basement as pets. Seriously.

No, I'm serious.

Originally posted by long pig
Why not? They certainly aren't as powerful as him and with prep, they've never reached the same level he has reached with prep. He has a skill, experience(He's older than both combined) and a power advantage on his side. Not to mention the MASSIVE....M A S S I V E advantage of having more magical contacts who rate on the top 10 most powerful beings in existance that would help him out in a pinch.

How would you know? as said about Shaman,

In an interview found in Marvel Age #2 , John Byrne: "If you want to sum it up . . . he's Dr. Strange--but he does it with potions and herbs and little dolls and stuff, instead of just doing it with the power of his mind, the way Strange does. This possibly gives Shaman a slight advantage, I don't know. If he had the tools at hand, he can make just about anything. I don't know if Strange has that kind of power over the physical world." Below are various objects and spells Shaman has pulled out of his pouch.

Actually no, the Talisman is over 20,000 years old. Power advantage? as said both Talisman and Dr.Strange are equals stated and portrayed during the Llan crisis and during the Ranaq battle.

Originally posted by long pig
Nature Gods.

Strange calls them "Sprites" and keeps them in his basement as pets. Seriously.

No, I'm serious.

Actually no, it's for sure not nature gods. She controls spirits, but even the Gods of the Arctic bow before her and they easily defeated a person Dr.Strange was unsure if he could beat.

This is a vast amount of Prep devices Dr Strange could use to aid him.

http://www.neilalien.com/doc/powers/

Originally posted by King_Mungi
How would you know? as said about Shaman,

In an interview found in Marvel Age #2 , John Byrne: "If you want to sum it up . . . he's Dr. Strange--but he does it with potions and herbs and little dolls and stuff, instead of just doing it with the power of his mind, the way Strange does. This possibly gives Shaman a slight advantage, I don't know. If he had the tools at hand, he can make just about anything. I don't know if Strange has that kind of power over the physical world." Below are various objects and spells Shaman has pulled out of his pouch.

Actually no, the Talisman is over 20,000 years old. Power advantage? as said both Talisman and Dr.Strange are equals stated and portrayed during the Llan crisis and during the Ranaq battle. Quoting a writer really means little here, it's all about feats. I can quote a writer who says this: "Dr.Strange can do anything. Nothing can actually hurt him." And that's by Joe Quesada. Or hell, how about "Dr.Strange has enough power to shake or shape a universe."? That was in his comic. Does it matter? Not really.

What does matter is the fact ol' Strange can do anything these two can do except better and with less hassle. His feats do the talking.

Not taking sides but no Magic user has the feats that Doc Strange has. Thier crazy. Beating death the in-betweener and holding off the IG. *shakes head* crazy...

Likewise...
====
Talisman:
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Talisman

Shaman:
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Shaman

Who knows what these teams are capable of with that kinda prep

euh agree opinions don't really count, and that opinion is over 23 year old, sorry not good enough for me.

Still I'm not sure who would win or iff doc strange could take them alone.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Actually no, it's for sure not nature gods. She controls spirits, but even the Gods of the Arctic bow before her and they easily defeated a person Dr.Strange was unsure if he could beat.
Eh? Are you saying he doesn't keep gods of nature in his basement? Like the wolf god, the owl god, the gods the native americans worship? They were spirit gods. They've came to him and he fricken kept them in a friggin' magical room until he realized that they meant no harm. Like a turtle I found the other day...which I'm still not sure he's not a killer turtle....I'ma keep him a while longer, just in case.

Turtles, pshh...

Originally posted by long pig
Quoting a writer really means little here, it's all about feats. I can quote a writer who says this: "Dr.Strange can do anything. Nothing can actually hurt him." And that's by Joe Quesada. Or hell, how about "Dr.Strange has enough power to shake or shape a universe."? That was in his comic. Does it matter? Not really.

What does matter is the fact ol' Strange can do anything these two can do except better and with less hassle. His feats do the talking.

Except he literally can pull out anything and everything from his hammerspace. He has multiple dimensions and universes inside his pouch. Actually Talisman was even said to shape a universe, and SHaman did shake the universe.

Talisman was shown to easily control skyfather beings with no trouble at all, your greatly underestimating her.

Originally posted by long pig
Eh? Are you saying he doesn't keep gods of nature in his basement? Like the wolf god, the owl god, the gods the native americans worship? They were spirit gods. They've came to him and he fricken kept them in a friggin' magical room until he realized that they meant no harm. Like a turtle I found the other day...which I'm still not sure he's not a killer turtle....I'ma keep him a while longer, just in case.

Turtles, pshh...

No I thought you said Talisman gods that fight through her are nature gods. Eh? no they don't worship them in the same sense as their Northern Gods, as shown and portrayed during Shaman's trials in the Spirit Test. She has absolute control over those spirits, Dr.Strange doesn't

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Except he literally can pull out anything and everything from his hammerspace. He has multiple dimensions and universes inside his pouch. Actually Talisman was even said to shape a universe, and SHaman did shake the universe.

Talisman was shown to easily control skyfather beings with no trouble at all, your greatly underestimating her.
Strange has alternate dimensions inside his CELL STRUCTURE. Pouch? Phsaaa!



I know full well her powers, hell...I downloaded nearly all the Alpha Flight comics for you, remember? I read them all and I'm impressed by af a lot, but she, nor Tali is Strange caliber. Not by a long shot.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No I thought you said Talisman gods that fight through her are nature gods. Eh? no they don't worship them in the same sense as their Northern Gods, as shown and portrayed during Shaman's trials in the Spirit Test. She has absolute control over those spirits, Dr.Strange doesn't
Oh, miscommunication. But you agree with the fact that turtles are shifty little freaks, correct?

I must say, it's good to know someone is a magic-character fan other than me. It's a bit old doing this by my self.

I don't know if he (or she) has total control over them, but he treated them as though they were far enough below him as to keep them in his basement.

Originally posted by long pig
Strange has alternate dimensions inside his CELL STRUCTURE. Pouch? Phsaaa!



I know full well her powers, hell...I downloaded nearly all the Alpha Flight comics for you, remember? I read them all and I'm impressed by af a lot, but she, nor Tali is Strange caliber. Not by a long shot.

A pouch that if unchecked could destroy the universe

No you didn't, I downloaded them myself and I had to tell you about the respect thread as you thought Deathstroke could beat Alpha Flight. Shaman no, Talisman definetly.

Northern Gods are what I would call Skyfather or Elder Gods but Strange uses These gods By the Flames of the Faltine!"
"By the Sons of Satannish!"
"By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth!"
"By the Ruby Rings of Raggadorr!"
"By the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak!"
"By the Vapors of the Vishanti!"
"By the Eye of Agamotto!"
"By the Vapors of Valtorr!"
"By the Images of Ikonn!"
"By the Demons of Denak!"
"By the Fangs of Farallah!"
"By the Mystic Moons of Munnopor!"
"By the Shades of the Seraphim!"
"By the Omnipotent Oshtur!"
"By the fires of Ikthalon!"
"By the Wondrous Winds of Watoomb!" "By the Wondrous Wand of Watoomb

Originally posted by long pig
Oh, miscommunication. But you agree with the fact that turtles are shifty little freaks, correct?

I must say, it's good to know someone is a magic-character fan other than me. It's a bit old doing this by my self.

I use to have three...Michelango, Leonardo, Leonardo II...guess who they were named after?

Indeed, you seem to be absent from the board lately though. Still comp troubles?

Originally posted by long pig
Strange has alternate dimensions inside his CELL STRUCTURE. Pouch? Phsaaa! I gotta say, sometimes it's sounds like you just make shit up. Is this actually true?

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
I gotta say, sometimes it's sounds like you just make shit up. Is this actually true?

It's true, he is said to be a god just like Talisman

Vishanti are the most powerful magic use in Marvel

Maybe Gods like Odin

Originally posted by King_Mungi
A pouch that if unchecked could destroy the universe

No you didn't, I downloaded them myself and I had to tell you about the respect thread as you thought Deathstroke could beat Alpha Flight. Shaman no, Talisman definetly.
And Strange is so powerful LT had to have him removed because he unbalanced the power structure of the MULTI VERSE!

I soooo did download them for you. I just couldn't give them to you when you needed them. Ya' turncoat.

I read them though.

Shaman? NOOOO. Tali? Nope.

I'm going to ask for any proof...hard proof that Tali is equal to Strange. Feats, man...feats.

Not parable or metaphor.

Originally posted by golem370
Vishanti are the most powerful magic use in Marvel

Witchfire another magical user from Alpha Flight emplores spells from Agamotto and she is said to be below Shaman and Talisman. Just because they can draw magic from them doesn't make it they are them.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
I gotta say, sometimes it's sounds like you just make shit up. Is this actually true?
It's true.
He's shunted people and places away in the infinite dimensions between his cell structure.

But does she have the book of all of the Vishanti spells the Talismans of the Vishanti

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Witchfire another magical user from Alpha Flight emplores spells from Agamotto and she is said to be below Shaman and Talisman. Just because they can draw magic from them doesn't make it they are them.
Well, no.

Strange doesn't ask for power, he gets it when he wants it, as much of it as he needs. He's the avatar for the Vishanti, their one and only avatar. He's the one who they have stated that they would(if they could) die for because he's died for them.

Originally posted by long pig
And Strange is so powerful LT had to have him removed because he unbalanced the power structure of the MULTI VERSE!

I soooo did download them for you. I just couldn't give them to you when you needed them. Ya' turncoat.

I read them though.

Shaman? NOOOO. Tali? Nope.

I'm going to ask for any proof...hard proof that Tali is equal to Strange. Feats, man...feats.

Not parable or metaphor.

Talisman is the balance and is a director of forces, not a combatant. Its power is for guiding things, not destroying them as even before she gained the Talisman she was taking and manipulating blasts from Ranaq and all it did was make her stronger. "As the rampart power bristles and cracks across the room. Reality bends, warps, twists, screaming like a living thing stretched on a rack."

No you never did download them for me. I downloaded every single issue, and you didn't even know anything about Alpha Flight until I told you about them.

Most is already in the respect thread, except the Llan trials. Which I will hopefully upload tommorow as it's 1am now

Originally posted by golem370
But does she have the book of all of the Vishanti spells the Talismans of the Vishanti
No because she isn't their avatar. At most, she's a leech.

It's like saying that I'm the Phoenix because I can shoot fire from my hands and say "I'm the phoenix!". I'm no less the real phoenix as Sha' is a real Vishanti Avatar.

Originally posted by golem370
But does she have the book of all of the Vishanti spells the Talismans of the Vishanti

In the Talisman itself, which is kinda alive and feeds her information and spells.

Originally posted by long pig
Well, no.

Strange doesn't ask for power, he gets it when he wants it, as much of it as he needs. He's the avatar for the Vishanti, their one and only avatar. He's the one who they have stated that they would(if they could) die for because he's died for them.

I worded it wrong, but its the exact same as Talisman. She is the avatars of the gods, who knows what that entails. Is it all gods, a select few, etc. It's impossible to predict an outcome as we fully don't know what she is capable of.

Originally posted by long pig
No because she isn't their avatar. At most, she's a leech.

It's like saying that I'm the Phoenix because I can shoot fire from my hands and say "I'm the phoenix!". I'm no less the real phoenix as Sha' is a real Vishanti Avatar.

She has an unlimited spell list inside the Talisman, like I tried to say with prep it's almost impossible to say what she could cook up. Same with what could Shaman pull out of his pouch.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Talisman is the balance and is a director of forces, not a combatant. Its power is for guiding things, not destroying them as even before she gained the Talisman she was taking and manipulating blasts from Ranaq and all it did was make her stronger. "As the rampart power bristles and cracks across the room. Reality bends, warps, twists, screaming like a living thing stretched on a rack."

No you never did download them for me. I downloaded every single issue, and you didn't even know anything about Alpha Flight until I told you about them.

Most is already in the respect thread, except the Llan trials. Which I will hopefully upload tommorow as it's 1am now
So, during the tourney, when I asked for AF info and you helped me, we didn't make a deal that I'd download AF comics and send them to you? I never was able to send them to you but I did download them and I've read them over the past 6 months or so....all of them.

And I'm saying Tali isn't equal to Strange.

Let us have a...FEAT DUEL!

I hereby challenge you, ol' fella who I respect to a "Feat Off"! Throw every high feat of Talis you can at me and I'll do the same with Strange. Whomever wins, get the pie.

On guard!

Originally posted by long pig
So, during the tourney, when I asked for AF info and you helped me, we didn't make a deal that I'd download AF comics and send them to you? I never was able to send them to you but I did download them and I've read them over the past 6 months or so....all of them.

And I'm saying Tali isn't equal to Strange.

I asked for a select few not all. As it was the comics I didn't already have, and those comics I asked for didn't have Talisman feats. Remember I gave you a list of comics?

She is though

Originally posted by long pig
Let us have a...FEAT DUEL!

I hereby challenge you, ol' fella who I respect to a "Feat Off"! Throw every high feat of Talis you can at me and I'll do the same with Strange. Whomever wins, get the pie.

On guard!

It's 1AM i'm not searching through the respect thread now. However, Strange has higher feats but does that mean Talisman can't do some of things he did? far from it. She was never put into that situation. Once again having prep with these people is almost impossible to predict as they can pull out anything and everything

Originally posted by King_Mungi
She has an unlimited spell list inside the Talisman, like I tried to say with prep it's almost impossible to say what she could cook up. Same with what could Shaman pull out of his pouch.
Unlmited is nothing to one who can eat unlimited power for breakfast. Strange has raped other beings with infinite power and stole it to make himself stronger.

So, he could simply take the mage's power. Simple.

Plus, what can they do to him?

Originally posted by long pig
Let us have a...FEAT DUEL!

I hereby challenge you, ol' fella who I respect to a "Feat Off"! Throw every high feat of Talis you can at me and I'll do the same with Strange. Whomever wins, get the pie.

On guard!
eek
Sorry to bump in. I know I aint got a dog on this tree but I dont think your gonna find any character in marvel that can trump Doc Strange's feats . Not one outside of abstract level anyway.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I asked for a select few not all. As it was the comics I didn't already have, and those comics I asked for didn't have Talisman feats. Remember I gave you a list of comics?

She is though
I downloaded the chronological Alpha Flight index. 4 GB of it and I've read nearly all of them or skimmed through 'em.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
It's 1AM i'm not searching through the respect thread now. However, Strange has higher feats but does that mean Talisman can't do some of things he did? far from it. She was never put into that situation. Once again having prep with these people is almost impossible to predict as they can pull out anything and everything
Of course his feats are higher. It's because his powerlevel is higher.

Originally posted by long pig
Unlmited is nothing to one who can eat unlimited power for breakfast. Strange has raped other beings with infinite power and stole it to make himself stronger.

So, he could simply take the mage's power. Simple.

Plus, what can they do to him?

Once again Talisman controls all magic as well and she has done the same.

No, Talisman is capable of shuting down magic or absorbing it making her stronger as well.

Who knows with prep.

Originally posted by long pig
I downloaded the chronological Alpha Flight index. 4 GB of it and I've read nearly all of them or skimmed through 'em.

Of course his feats are higher. It's because his powerlevel is higher.

No, it means she was never put in that situation before. Like I mentioned earlier she controlled beings that defeated a person who Strange was unsure if he could beat.

this is very hard 2 determain given the extreme magical forces that would be at work here, but i gotta go with strange and clea

I'm with Mungi on this. tuftwoot

Talisman has forcibly stole infinite power from a being beyond skyfather without uttering a single word? No spell no artifacts, nothing.

When someone says "So and so is as powerful as Strange", you're basically saying "So and so is more powerful than the Vishanti, Eternity, Chaos and order and so on" because technically, due to his service and the nature of his power, he's as powerful as the being he gets power from.

Originally posted by long pig
Talisman has forcibly stole infinite power from a being beyond skyfather without uttering a single word? No spell no artifacts, nothing.

When someone says "So and so is as powerful as Strange", you're basically saying "So and so is more powerful than the Vishanti, Eternity, Chaos and order and so on" because technically, due to his service and the nature of his power, he's as powerful as the being he gets power from.

She did it without the Talisman on Ranaq, and did it against Llan who nearly killed Strange twice with simple traps.

If he gets the powers from them, how does it mean he's more powerful? Like I mentioned also we fully don't know who the avatar she is. The Talisman from 10,000 years ago even beat Llan a being Strange nearly died against.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No, it means she was never put in that situation before. Like I mentioned earlier she controlled beings that defeated a person who Strange was unsure if he could beat.
Strange was unsure if he could beat Wolverine. It's character boosting, A common comic book way of things.

If you want to make Tali look powerful, make Tali look as powerful as Strange.

Originally posted by long pig
Strange was unsure if he could beat Wolverine. It's character boosting, A common comic book way of things.

If you want to make Tali look powerful, make Tali look as powerful as Strange.

No it was shown he nearly died, from first trying to figure out what the evil magic was coming from and second when he entered the Gateway of Day. The other time with the person he was unsure he could beat even dealt with the Ancient One before.

Current Talisman were shown to be Strange's equal during the Llan crisis.

You fogot to mention that Tali needed an demon to help him when Strante was there.

Originally posted by long pig
You fogot to mention that Tali needed an demon to help him when Strante was there.

What?...what demon?

at his best dr. and clea win

see i like bag of tricks

Strange has been know I one of the most powerful magics on Marvel earth Shaman and Talisman are powerful but imo not on his level