Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

So only 2 people can fight them at a time? And Kun can use his retarded amulet but Palpatine and Luke cant use Force Storm or emerald lightning? Thats stacking the odds extremely in Exar's favour there.

Anyways, if its not 2 at a time and when Luke "gets killed" (which he wouldn't, but if he did) there are people in the NJO that would crush Exar and Palpatine anyways. Kyle, Kyp, Corran, the Solo children etc etc.

Anyways, take away Exar's amulet and Luke beats them both pretty easy because Palpatine is going down hard against Luke in a saber duel as is Exar (but not as easily), and in the force, neither Exar or Palpatine can match him. They'd put up a good fight together, but I still say they go down eventually. (If Exar cant use his amulet) if he can then Luke cant win, not while fighting both of them at the same time.

So:
Luke vs. Exar (alone with amulet) = Luke wins
Luke vs. Palpatine alone = Luke wins
Luke vs. Exar and Palpatine (no gay Kun amulet) = Luke wins after a hard fight
Luke vs. Exar and Palpatine (Kun can use amulet) = Luke loses after a hard fight.

But Even if Luke loses and there can be more then 2 vs 2 then Palpatine and Exar get beaten by the rest of the NJO anyways. If it is only ever 2 vs. 2 then Exar and Palpatine are unbeatable if they get past Luke. I dont think there are any 2 people that could fight them and win if Luke was dead. But if it could be 3 people against Palps and Kun then there are 3 people who against Palps and Kun would win, but not 2.

Luke by now is, what, twice as strong as them?

lol probably. Only Kyp and Jacen come close imo.

Not even close. TUF made Kyp and Luke's difference very obvious

What is close to something else is a point of view.

The entire New Jedi Order? Damn. I don't even want to picture how bad Kun and Palpatine get screwed - especially if they can't use their most powerful attacks.

Anyways, Anomaly, only Luke could defeat Kun and Palpatine as of New Jedi Order. Kun may give either of them a hard fight, and Jacen isn't the powerhouse that he is depicted to be in Legacy of the Force. Kyle's pretty tough, but can't take either of them. Jaina? Nope.

Add their special abilities, and Kun and Palpatine may be able to take down Luke - and the others would follow suit.

All together? Palpatine and Kun have their atoms spread throughout the solar system.

I'd say Kyp would be able to take Kun. Probs Jacen too.

The duo win #1 but lose in #2.

Originally posted by Jen'ari
I'd say Kyp would be able to take Kun. Probs Jacen too.

By New Jedi Order? I'm not aware of Jacen being uber-powerful there. Perhaps by Legacy of the Force, but I doubt by NJO. Kyp would give either Palpatine or Exar a fight - but I believe that either of them could defeat him.

Oops, misread your post.

In Scenario 1, I can see the duo winning. Working together, utilizing their immense dark side energies, they could stand a chance against Luke. Not in a saber fight but the arena makes such a fight quite dumb. There are many advantages in cracked heavy pieces of stone above your enemy you could use. By NJO, Luke would be only slightly higher in my estimates than these two together. Experience is also in their favor. It is by no means an "pwn" and they won't win every single tie but playing their cards right, they can pull it off.

And after Luke, I see it being clear sailing through the rest of the Order.

By NJO I don't think anybody with the exception of Luke could take down Kun and Palpatine. By LOTF you would have Luke, Kyp, and Jacen more powerful than the two.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
By NJO I don't think anybody with the exception of Luke could take down Kun and Palpatine. By LOTF you would have Luke, Kyp, and Jacen more powerful than the two.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
By NJO I don't think anybody with the exception of Luke could take down Kun and Palpatine. By LOTF you would have Luke, Kyp, and Jacen more powerful than the two.

Luke and Jacen for sure (though I really don't know about Jacen - the inconsistencies are endless) - but I don't know about Kyp.

I've only actually read about the NJO stuff on njoe.com so I may be quite uninformed on some of the finer details of the book but I was always under the impression that Kyp>Jacen. Or does Jacen grow crazily powerful by LOTF or something? Also, Kyp's still pretty young right. He'll should definitely grow more powerful than the sith as long as he doesn't die or anything.

I believe Jacen becomes more powerful than Kyp. There was some source that said it was a POSSIBILITY that either Jacen or Ben Skywalker would become more powerful than Luke, although that's purely hearsay for now.

Possibly, because you have to remember that Luke started his training pretty late.

Originally posted by darthsith19
The duo win #1 but lose in #2.
Would you stop the fanboyism? Luke's superiority has been proven again and again

Sidious kills Kun, takes the amulet, and plots on how to kill Luke.

^ makes a good argument. I'm a Sidious fan but I'm by no means saying he will definitely win. Losing is very probable but victory is definitely not out of the question.

As of NJO, the only Jedi besides Luke who could possibly defeat Sidious (IMO the weaker of the pair) is Kyp. Even then it's iffy. I don't see Luke taking down Exar and Sidious at the same time, amulet or not.

In anycase, the NJO pwns the duo.

I believe Jacen becomes more powerful than Kyp.

This was stated in Bloodlines, although it's reliability isn't perfect.

Jacen would destroy Kun. Sidious? Nope. Betrayal practically confirmed Sidious as the strongest force of destruction the galaxy had seen-stated. History of the Sith also confirmed it.

So, nope, Kun's not stronger than Palpatine.

What page in Betrayal? I've read the book more then once and I don't remeber it saying that.

And Jacen destroying Kun, as of NJO? Not a chance.

Glentract is right. As of NJO, only Luke and Kyp can destroy Sidious.

Kyp? No way.

And Betrayal states Vergere knew Palpatine would become the greatest living force of destruction the galaxy would see. Lumiya was terrified of him, even with her apprentices to challenge him.

So, we have that...History of the Sith, the New Essential Chronology, Dark Empire's sourcebook and handbook...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Kyp? No way.

And Betrayal states Vergere knew Palpatine would become the greatest living force of destruction the galaxy would see. Lumiya was terrified of him, even with her apprentices to challenge him.

So, we have that...History of the Sith, the New Essential Chronology, Dark Empire's sourcebook and handbook...

Which says nothing about Kyp since he was a Jedi. Kyp becomes an uber force user as of NJO, and then is surpassed by Jacen and eventually Ben. Either way, all of these are superior to Sidious.

superior to sidious? but can they make something far more destructive than his force sstorm?

Ben? Will be. Not yet.
Kyp? No way. Kyp isn't half of what Luke is. Evidence? Kyp was unable to defeat a dying Slayer. Luke kills seven simultaneously. Kyp's very strong, but on the plateau of the ubers as Luke, Palpatine and Yoda

And Jacen isn't up to them. Yet. Neither is Ben.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ben? Will be. Not yet.
Kyp? No way. Kyp isn't half of what Luke is. Evidence? Kyp was unable to defeat a dying Slayer. Luke kills seven simultaneously. Kyp's very strong, but on the plateau of the ubers as Luke, Palpatine and Yoda

And Jacen isn't up to them. Yet. Neither is Ben.

why does the title say "jedi order" when luke is the only person from the jedi order?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ben? Will be. Not yet.
Kyp? No way. Kyp isn't half of what Luke is. Evidence? Kyp was unable to defeat a dying Slayer. Luke kills seven simultaneously. Kyp's very strong, but on the plateau of the ubers as Luke, Palpatine and Yoda

And Jacen isn't up to them. Yet. Neither is Ben.

But Kyp hardly excelled when it came to sworsmanship, forcewise he isn't too far from Luke.

Proof? Where's Kyp done anything to come close to Luke?
Ok, he moved some black holes...let's see him achieve a state of oneness with the Force, root himself in the Heart of the Force, hide planets with the Force, bring down starships with the force, emerald lightning Slayers...

No, forcewise, Kyp is pretty damn far

Glentract, Vergere believed Sidious to be "the most destructive living force in the galaxy", which is why she attempted to kill him.

Kun may be better than Sidious in lightsaber ability - but certainly not in Force skills. Palpatine can generate a Force Storm pretty damn easily, and nothing has given us the indication that Kun could survive it at all.

The best thing that he did was control the minds of Senators and engage Vodo in lightsaber combat. That's good (really good), but I'm of a mind to think that Yoda, Mace, Dooku, and Depa (possibly Anakin as well) are above Vodo in ability.

Sidious completely controlled the Imperial Starfleet - and electrocuted a batallion of Stormtroopers with a single Force lightning assault.

And this was before Dark Empire.

Originally posted by Escape81
Glentract, Vergere believed Sidious to be "the most destructive living force in the galaxy", which is why she attempted to kill him.

What makes you think that is in relation to his personal power? I don't see how that quote makes him seem powerful. I think it mean's what it says, he was destructive. Power isn't mentioned.

Originally posted by Escape81
Kun may be better than Sidious in lightsaber ability - but certainly not in Force skills. Palpatine can generate a Force Storm pretty damn easily, and nothing has given us the indication that Kun could survive it at all.

Sidious can't control the force storms though. Someone of Exar's strength could probably take Sidious with him, if not turn the storm back at Sidious as Luke and Leia did.

Originally posted by Escape81
The best thing that he did was control the minds of Senators and engage Vodo in lightsaber combat. That's good (really good), but I'm of a mind to think that Yoda, Mace, Dooku, and Depa (possibly Anakin as well) are above Vodo in ability.

I don't want to re-argue this for what must be the hundreth time, but I will if you want to. Vodo was definately on the level of Yoda. I strongly doubt that Anakin is above him, as well as Depa. What has Depa ever done to make her so powerful?

Exar also pwned Luke as a 4000 year old mad spirit.

Originally posted by Escape81
Sidious completely controlled the Imperial Starfleet - and electrocuted a batallion of Stormtroopers with a single Force lightning assault.

Controlled? I don't think so. Influenced to a small degree with battle meditation? Yes. It's a massively different feat.

Exar obliterated many Massassi Warriors as well as Nadd's spirit. I'd say that equals taking down a batallion of stormtroopers.

Originally posted by Escape81
And this was before Dark Empire.

Is the difference between ROTJ Sidious and DE Sidious in force powers really all that big? It's not like Sidious gained much, if any, knowledge during the time he was regenerating. Yes, he got a lot better with a lightsaber, but why would his force powers be better?

Ah. How could it not relate to personal power? Palpatine wasn't Emperor of the galaxy at this time. He was merely Darth Sidious, master manipulator and puppet master. And, it simply doesn't mean that he's just destructive. It says that he is "the most destructive living force in the galaxy."

Jango Fett is destructive. Anakin Skywalker is destructive. Palpatine? Far more so.



That is true, but Sidious was only shown to be unable to control his Force Storm when he was confronted with an overwhelming mass of Force connection - three Skywalkers. And, even then, they could only perform such a thing temporarily.

Until such a time when you prove that Exar can match the Force connection of three Skywalkers (three individuals with Anakin's raw connection to the Force), I don't see Exar doing anything but dying against a Force Storm.

He wouldn't be taking Palpatine with him.



Really? Definately on Yoda's level? Link me to something that proves this, Glentract. Or are you assuming simply because he was the great Exar Kun's master?



He did. He imbued Kyp, too, with the power to raise the Sun Crusher. I am aware of Kun's power - and the distance between him and Palpatine isn't by far.

However, when Palpatine took possession of someone - the sheer power drove him mad. Didn't happen to Kyp. According to the Ancient Sith, only Anakin Solo possessed the power to house Palpatine's spirit. His raw energies in the Force were killing him.

He could turn lightsabers to dust with a wave of his hand, destroy fleets, possessed all of the Dark Side knowledge ever possessed, was described by an omniscient narrator as "a dark nexus of the Force" and "the Dark Side's most powerful agent."



You and Grand Admiral Thrawn disagree. Considerably.



In a single Force maneuver?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Proof? Where's Kyp done anything to come close to Luke?
Ok, he moved some black holes...let's see him achieve a state of oneness with the Force, root himself in the Heart of the Force, hide planets with the Force, bring down starships with the force, emerald lightning Slayers...

No, forcewise, Kyp is pretty damn far

You bet he moved some black holes. He was stated to have done it more easily then Luke did too. That outweighs (excuse the pun) most everything else Luke has done.

Lumiya was terrified of him, even with her apprentices to challenge him.

Lumiya was as much a machine as Vader. Unlike Vader, however, she didn't have the raw force power to still be a force to be reckoned with afterwards. Who was this natable apprentice? What was she supposed to do against over half a dozen Royal Guards assuming she ever got to him to begin with? She didn't have much choice.

Glentract is right. As of NJO, only Luke and Kyp can destroy Sidious.

I never said Kyp could destroy Sidious. Here's what I said: As of NJO, the only Jedi besides Luke who could possibly defeat Sidious (IMO the weaker of the pair) is Kyp. Even then it's iffy.

Kyp isn't half of what Luke is. Evidence? Kyp was unable to defeat a dying Slayer. Luke kills seven simultaneously.

Kyp fought four of them. Luke wasn't fighting all seven at the same time. I remember four coming after him to begin with. Yes, he killed 7 over the course of the battle, not at one time though. Also, Luke beat them later in TUF, after the Jedi had been informed of all of the Slayer's new weapons. I doubt Luke would have done as well if he didn't get info from Kyp first. I'm not saying Kyp is as strong as Luke in lightsaber skills or force powers, just that in force powers he rivals him and in lightsaber skills he could give him a challenge to be sure.

Omfg for the last time. When on earth is Vodo even on par with Yoda? Perhaps you should quit listening so much to the former members of this forum that always argued this. I suppose Vodo was the grandmaster too huh? And AGAIN, a force spirit is NOT what Exar Kun was. Exar Kun was in some form, what Sidious was. A form of energy, just not as complete, because the ritual was apparently iffy or he didn't learn it correctly, but Kun wasn't a DEAD FORCE SPIRIT.

Last I checked, Kyp failed to beat ONE Slayer dying of Alpha Red on Caluula.
And more fanboy BS from Glentract:

What's destruction force? HM! Power maybe?

He controlled...three force storms fine until cut off from the Force. Try again.

Vodo definitely on Yoda's level? Prove up, wouldya? When'd Vodo do....anything on Yoda's level? Oh, right...he got got beaten twice and used a stick. Silly me. Try Again!

Exar pwned Luke as a spirit? You mean...double teaming a surprised Luke holding back against Kyp Durron while double teaming him while Luke was weak from combatting the dark Side on Yavin 4? Oh, right. That.

Nope, sorry, last I checked: Thrawn tril confirmed Palpatine was practically controlling the fleet as it fell to pieces when he died.

Palpatine is confirmed as growing stronger after ROTJ.

Ah. How could it not relate to personal power? Palpatine wasn't Emperor of the galaxy at this time. He was merely Darth Sidious, master manipulator and puppet master. And, it simply doesn't mean that he's just destructive. It says that he is "the most destructive living force in the galaxy."

Jango Fett is destructive. Anakin Skywalker is destructive. Palpatine? Far more so.

1. It doesn't matter that Palpatine was Emperor of the galaxy at the time. Let me quote LS on this: And Betrayal states Vergere knew Palpatine would become the greatest living force of destruction the galaxy would see. Lumiya was terrified of him, even with her apprentices to challenge him. (emphasis added by me).

2. What does the fact that he's living have to do with how destructive he is? All destructive beings have to be alive unless they are a force ghost. What proof do you have that it is referring to Palpatine's force powers?

That is true, but Sidious was only shown to be unable to control his Force Storm when he was confronted with an overwhelming mass of Force connection - three Skywalkers. And, even then, they could only perform such a thing temporarily.

What did Anakin do? He wouldn't become notably powerful for more then a decade. Leia was very weak as well. Luke wouldn't stand up to many powerful people at this point either. He lost to Exar's spirit after DE. During that year or so he presumable became much more powerful as he had a holocron that he got from Sidious to study from during that time. All three of the Skywalkers at this point would be defeated by Exar alone. As this paragraph is getting bulky, I'll show my reasoning in the next.

Raynar Thul had more raw force potential in DN then anyone else alive. He was insane though and untrained. If someone like Yoda had that kind of raw power he would be unstoppable.

Compare Raynar to Lomi Plo. She had only one planet full of Killiks to draw power from, yet she rivaled Raynar in power because of her better training. Raw power don't matter if you don't have the training to use it.

Until such a time when you prove that Exar can match the Force connection of three Skywalkers (three individuals with Anakin's raw connection to the Force), I don't see Exar doing anything but dying against a Force Storm.

He wouldn't be taking Palpatine with him.

See above. Those three Skywalkers were weak as of DE.

Really? Definately on Yoda's level? Link me to something that proves this, Glentract. Or are you assuming simply because he was the great Exar Kun's master?

On Yoda's level doesn't mean that he equals him. It means that he could give him a good fight, which I think you would agree to. If Vodo was so weak, why did Sidious bother keeping his holocron with him? He obviously had some special knowledge.

However, when Palpatine took possession of someone - the sheer power drove him mad. Didn't happen to Kyp. According to the Ancient Sith, only Anakin Solo possessed the power to house Palpatine's spirit. His raw energies in the Force were killing him.

1. Exar was a far older, and therefor weaker spirit then Palpatine.

2. Exar never fully possessed Kyp. He only partially did so.

3. Kyp was stated to have less force potential then Anakin, but only by a small bit. Seeing as Sidious didn't know about Kyp at the time it's entirely possible that Kyp is powerful enough to have not been driven mad by Sidious' power.

4.I've forgotten, who was it that Palpatine first possessed?

He could turn lightsabers to dust with a wave of his hand, destroy fleets, possessed all of the Dark Side knowledge ever possessed, was described by an omniscient narrator as "a dark nexus of the Force" and "the Dark Side's most powerful agent."

1.Wow. He could destroy small metal tubes with a wave of his hand. That really equals controlling black holes.

2. Where did you get this idea that he possessed all of the knowledge on the darkside that ever existed?

3. Even if Sidious had all of the darkside knowledge ever, he could only have used a portion of it, as Exar said that he had gotten more then he could ever possibly use.

4. Quantify "nexus". I define nexus as a means of connection; tie; link. What do you think it is and can you prove that the author would use your definition over mine?

5. As the Darksides more powerful agent, is that ever, or living at that time? What was the context? What's you source?

You and Grand Admiral Thrawn disagree. Considerably.

Ah. So Thrawn was an expert on the force? Hardly. (I'm not claiming that I am either, btw ) Thrawn just knew that the battle records showed that the Imperials had fought better when Sidious was alive then after he had died. There is no reason to believe that he "controlled" all of them.

In a single Force maneuver?

I can't remember. It might have been. Even if it was not, he still took out a large part of a temple wall and killed many Massassi with one attack. Nadd might have been destroyed with that same attack as well.

Last I checked, Kyp failed to beat ONE Slayer dying of Alpha Red on Caluula.
And more fanboy BS from Glentract:

Can you prove that the Alpha Red had as of then had any affect on the Slayers fighting ability?

Can you please answer my reasons for why Luke did so much better against the Slayers? Luke knew what to expect.

And again, Kyp isn't as good as Luke in lightsaber skills, that's already been established. It's force powers that he rivals him in.

What's destruction force? HM! Power maybe?

How about giving the Clones the order to destory the Jedi Order? I'd say that extremely destructive and comes not from his own power.

He controlled...three force storms fine until cut off from the Force. Try again.

The Emperor also confessed that he was not able to completely control these storms after he triggered their onset.

Vodo definitely on Yoda's level? Prove up, wouldya? When'd Vodo do....anything on Yoda's level? Oh, right...he got got beaten twice and used a stick. Silly me. Try Again!

If Vodo was so weak, why did Sidious bother keeping his holocron with him? He obviously had some special knowledge.

Exar pwned Luke as a spirit? You mean...double teaming a surprised Luke holding back against Kyp Durron while double teaming him while Luke was weak from combatting the dark Side on Yavin 4? Oh, right. That.

Luke was stated as using all of his knowledge, yet he was overpowered. Kyp Durron had effectively no training at this point and woudn't have done much, if anything.

Nope, sorry, last I checked: Thrawn tril confirmed Palpatine was practically controlling the fleet as it fell to pieces when he died.

You should check again, as it doesn't say that he controlled the fleet.

Palpatine is confirmed as growing stronger after ROTJ.

Source?


And I'm done for the night. Later yall.

Gee, could a virus that, y'know, attacked their biology and KILLED them maybe have some effect? It took all of Malik Carr's power to even stand when he was infected. And when did Luke know what to expect? Noone knew about what the Slayers truly were. The fact remains: Luke killed multiple, elite, healthy slayers and thousands of Vong besides WITHOUT using the Force to push himself.
Kyp couldn't kill one dying Slayer.
And according to Lucas's own words, Luke's power is what, twice of everyone else's? When is it even hinted that Kyp rivals Luke except in Kyp's delusional mind?
When Kyp can walk on Lava, achieve oneness with the Unifying Force and resist the combined power of the Kilik colony...we'll talk

Gee, when Betrayal confirms it's his destructive power as, y'know, a Sith. Nice try, but fanboy BS gets you nowhere, Glen.

And that was....oh, how many years before DE? Right. In the Handbook it states he said he could control them and we see him controlling them fine. Logic, much?

Sidious had BODO Baas's holocron. Not Vodo's. Luke found Vodo's. Sidious had Bodo's and many, many more besides. He selected that one for Luke and Leia, your point? Oh, is that your point gone?

Except Kyp had been powered by Kun and Yavin's Dark Side, Luke was weakened, trying not to hurt Kyp and double teamed. Yep, he was owned, by a technique he'd never seen before. And last I saw, Luke's padawans trapped Kun and drove him to desperation.

Try again. The Imperial Fleet became lost, totally disoriented and hopeless...the instant Palpatine died.

Source: Dark Empire? The Visual Guide? Confirm Palpatine grows in strength. DE Handbook confirms he grew, too...in fact, it calls his power in the darkside 'limitless'

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ah. How could it not relate to personal power? Palpatine wasn't Emperor of the galaxy at this time. He was merely Darth Sidious, master manipulator and puppet master. And, it simply doesn't mean that he's just destructive. It says that he is "the most destructive living force in the galaxy."
Gee, what does "the most desctructive living force" mean to you? Surely he wasn't a teddy bear.


2. What does the fact that he's living have to do with how destructive he is? All destructive beings have to be alive unless they are a force ghost. What proof do you have that it is referring to Palpatine's force powers?
Considering the fact that Vergere was once Sidious' apprentice, what else would she be talking about? She is indeed a credible source when discussing Sidious' power because she knows it as an apprentice.

What did Anakin do? He wouldn't become notably powerful for more then a decade. Leia was very weak as well. Luke wouldn't stand up to many powerful people at this point either. He lost to Exar's spirit after DE. During that year or so he presumable became much more powerful as he had a holocron that he got from Sidious to study from during that time. All three of the Skywalkers at this point would be defeated by Exar alone. As this paragraph is getting bulky, I'll show my reasoning in the next.
As Sama says, I'll take unsubstantiated bullshit for $500, alex. Where are you getting this crap from. The combined potential of 3 skywalkers were enough to defeat the most powerful sith lord in history. Meaning their potential is beyond Kun's. Now if you are talking about a straight up fight, I agree. At this point Kun is still more powerful than Luke.

Until such a time when you prove that Exar can match the Force connection of three Skywalkers (three individuals with Anakin's raw connection to the Force), I don't see Exar doing anything but dying against a Force Storm.
Uh I think I can try on this one.. 3 Skywalkers at this point>Sidious.. Even 1 Skywalker>Sidious.. Sidious>Kun.. Therefore, 3 Skywalkers or Luke Alone>Kun in terms of potential. Thanks for playing.

See above. Those three Skywalkers were weak as of DE.
Luke by the end of DE would be in the same league as Yoda..

On Yoda's level doesn't mean that he equals him. It means that he could give him a good fight, which I think you would agree to. If Vodo was so weak, why did Sidious bother keeping his holocron with him? He obviously had some special knowledge.
Uh, there's nothing to suggest Vodo is anything more than an average Jedi. Everything else is speculation..

1. Exar was a far older, and therefor weaker spirit then Palpatine.
Exar Kun wasn't a force ghost, he was an undead spirit, like Sidious.

2. Exar never fully possessed Kyp. He only partially did so.
bullshit

3. Kyp was stated to have less force potential then Anakin, but only by a small bit. Seeing as Sidious didn't know about Kyp at the time it's entirely possible that Kyp is powerful enough to have not been driven mad by Sidious' power.
bullshit




2. Where did you get this idea that he possessed all of the knowledge on the darkside that ever existed?
Lightsnake can give you the quotes

3. Even if Sidious had all of the darkside knowledge ever, he could only have used a portion of it, as Exar said that he had gotten more then he could ever possibly use.
Lets get one thing straight. Kun got all the knowledge from the ancient Jedi on Ossus and did nothing with that. Wow. Fast track 4,000 years, and you have Sidious learning every previous technique, and creating his own. Sidious' force knowledge>>>>>>>>>>Kun's.

Dark Empire sourcebook, among others:
"He had mastered all known, previously unknown and forgotten and creates new techniques at his pleasure."
"He had mastered the great power-the Force, the White Current, etc etc- in all its guises, all its aspects and all its traditions. etc etc tc, lot more there..."

And it's amusing how Exar kinda died hours later after gathering that stuff...Exar had a whopping six months to Palpatine's...80 years? 90?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dark Empire sourcebook, among others:
"He had mastered all known, previously unknown and forgotten and creates new techniques at his pleasure."
"He had mastered the great power-the Force, the White Current, etc etc- in all its guises, all its aspects and all its traditions. etc etc tc, lot more there..."

You're sure the first quote doesn't say "it is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure"?



What does that have to do with the fact Exar Kun had gained "more knowledge and wealth than he could ever hope to use"? Then again, you might not be addressing his last point, but whatever. I'll try to clarify it because I'm bored.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1582/kunmorewealthknowledge2sbpq1.th.jpg

I believe Glentract is just saying it's unlikely that Sidious could master "every technique" given the fact with only what Exar Kun had gather he still wasn't able to use all of it, even if he had lived until dying via old age (which I'd submit would be around 90, maybe even more) as it does say "ever hope to use".

You bring up the fact he died shortly after and he only had six months compared to Sidious' 90 (even though as far as I recall it's really unknown), but what does that have to do with Glentract's original point? It only makes one think if Sidious would be able to become the most powerful Force in the galaxy, one of the most powerful Sith Lords. Ever. Be able to kill Ancient Jedi masters with a swipe of his hand, and so on in only six months.

Doesn't really matter to me, just trying to clarify his point. Though, I don't even know if that's what he's saying, just seems that way. But anyways, what about the stuff housed on Malachor V that was destroyed? In the temples on Yavin stored with Kun? Doubt Sidious just waltzed in there, and Kun let him take it.

Different quotes, Advent. The 'it is believed' was written before the rest of the EU came into focus. And like I said, there're other quotes.

And no, Exar Kun was DLOTS for six months. That's it. And when did he use a scrap of the knowledge he gained? He didn't. Doesn't matter what he gathered, doesn't matter what

And the stuff on Malachor was the only source in the universe? The spirits of the Sith Lords didn't know it? Or their holocrons?

Oh, and Kun couldn't stop the Jedi waltzing in on Yavin and killing his Terentateks any more than he could stop Ikrit from destroying his creations and relaxing on Yavin for centuries. How would he stop Palpatine? Palpatine would likely just laugh at him and stroll out. by ROTS, Palp had excavated Yavin and Complete Locations shows that.

And so Exar Kun didn't have Palpatine's learning capabilities, so? It's lovely what he could or couldn't use. Of course, Palpatine's a bit different

I'd like to know more about Malachor V, where did it originate from, how long has the sith presence been there, when did it start, etc. Because it seems like a more important sith stronghold than even Korriban.

I doubt its even a more important sith stronghold than Ziost, let alone Korriban.

apparently it was important enough because it almost killed Revan, converted him and Malak to the dark side, gave Kreia the force drain knowledge, and created Nihilus. Malachor V seems to be doing a lot more than Korriban did.

What did some of that was the little mass slaughter at Malachor.
Ziost and Koriban were the Sith capitals

The thing is Korriban was their home world and capitol. Ziost had also once been the capitol. Malachor V seemed to be just a random sith stronghold of no real importance. I'd say Malachor V was the less important.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
apparently it was important enough because it almost killed Revan, converted him and Malak to the dark side, gave Kreia the force drain knowledge, and created Nihilus. Malachor V seems to be doing a lot more than Korriban did.

Sure, Malachor V was really strong with the dark side but that has nothing to do with importance. In terms of importance, it was seemingly just a random sith stronghold, nothing more.

That could've been the same regardless of whether Revan landed on Korriban, Ziost, or Malachor. Same as if Kreia went to another world. And the Wound in the Force thing created Ni

Korriban turned Exar Kun to the Darkside, gave Palpatine a lot of his power, is the highest concentration of dark side power in the galaxy and houses the spirits of all the Dark Lords.

There's really no proof that it was more important than Rhelg or Khar Delba, I doubt more so than Korriban or Ziost.

Oh, many Massassi? Proof it was more than three, thanks

Can we please stop comparing Kun's "Ghost" to Ragnos' or all others? I have provided a logical argument how Kun is less than a ghost and more of an undead spirit. We've seen Nadd force push Vodo as a spirit, from across the galaxy, we've seen Ragnos mark Kun and Qel Droma. Kun is NOT a spirit. He used Sadow's technique to strip himself of his flesh, so I don't see how you compare apples and oranges.