Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

*Braces himself.*

Good Lord! So this guy was dead as in actually dead and then resuscitated after 90 minutes? That in itself seems extremely odd to me, he would have MAJOR brain damage from lack of oxygen to brain.

If I were him though, I'd sue the a-hole doctors that brought me back to life after 90 mins of death, brain damage aside; he was in heaven already, what happens now if he does something between now and the next time he dies to jeopardize his place in heaven next to good ole J.C.?

Originally posted by Robtard
Good Lord! So this guy was dead as in actually dead and then resuscitated after 90 minutes? That in itself seems extremely odd to me, he would have MAJOR brain damage from lack of oxygen to brain.

If I were him though, I'd sue the a-hole doctors that brought me back to life after 90 mins of death, brain damage aside; he was in heaven already, what happens now if he does something between now and the next time he dies to jeopardize his place in heaven next to good ole J.C.?

You have to listen to his testimony to know why he had no brain damage. Don Piper explains as he relates his experience.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You have to listen to his testimony to know why he had no brain damage. Don Piper explains as he relates his experience.

The cerebral cortex dies after about 7 minutes of oxygen depletion, the brain stem can survive for about 25 minutes and this guy was dead (not just mostly dead) for 90 minutes? Is there a doctor, particularly a brain surgeon that could explain this phenomenon? Is there a doctor in the house?

Originally posted by Robtard
The cerebral cortex dies after about 7 minutes of oxygen depletion, the brain stem can survive for about 25 minutes and this guy was dead (not just mostly dead) for 90 minutes? Is there a doctor, particularly a brain surgeon that could explain this phenomenon? Is there a doctor in the house?

I take it that you did not listen to Don's testimony?

Originally posted by Robtard
Good Lord! So this guy was dead as in actually dead and then resuscitated after 90 minutes? That in itself seems extremely odd to me, he would have MAJOR brain damage from lack of oxygen to brain.

If I were him though, I'd sue the a-hole doctors that brought me back to life after 90 mins of death, brain damage aside; he was in heaven already, what happens now if he does something between now and the next time he dies to jeopardize his place in heaven next to good ole J.C.?
Doesn't work like that. But, frankly, I'm going to say that this was a hallucination or something simply because this doesn't really happen. At all. And, if it did, people--particularly those bound for hell--would end up really screwed in the head.

In a car crash..the body likly goes into shock. People easily hallucinate when they are in trauma.

http://www.tbn.org/index.php/8/1.html (scroll down and click on link entitled, "To Hell and Back"

Atheist doctor's and other people become believers after experiencing Hell. All of these people were stout atheists before their ordeal, many were middle to uppermiddle class professionals. They all testified on the Geraldo Rivera show (back in the day) that they believe in the reality of Heaven, Hell, the Bible, God, and Jesus Christ--after coming back to life.

I believe Chirstianity is currently the only reliigon in the US that is loosing members.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.tbn.org/index.php/8/1.html (scroll down and click on link entitled, "To Hell and Back"

Atheist doctor's and other people become believers after experiencing Hell. All of these people were stout atheists before their ordeal, many were middle to uppermiddle class professionals. They all testified on the Geraldo Rivera show (back in the day) that they believe in the reality of Heaven, Hell, the Bible, God, and Jesus Christ--after coming back to life.


Uhh...why doesn't this happen to everyone, then? I'm still going with hallucination.

EDIT: I can't believe I'm the first to make the joke.

"Back in the day, we only had seven minutes in heaven!"

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I take it that you did not listen to Don's testimony?

As far as I can tell, it requires a $13.00 donation to listen to it, so unless you want to fork over the clams, this dog won't hunt....Not that I'm cheap mind you, I just don't like falling for scams. Also, I do not care how Don Piper describes how he thinks he died for 90 mins and then came back to life without any sort of brain damage, I'd like an actual doctor to confirm this phenomenon... Funny how you state your refusal to listen to anything that doesn't fit your bias views, yet you expect me to listen to what you post...

Originally posted by FeceMan
Doesn't work like that. But, frankly, I'm going to say that this was a hallucination or something simply because this doesn't really happen. At all. And, if it did, people--particularly those bound for hell--would end up really screwed in the head.

What doesn't work like that? When you die as in cardiac arrest, your brain no longer receives oxygen.

Originally posted by Robtard
As far as I can tell, it requires a $13.00 donation to listen to it, so unless you want to fork over the clams, this dog won't hunt.... Also, I do not care how Don Piper describes how he thinks he died for 90 mins and then came back to life without any sort of brain damage, I'd like an actual doctor to confirm this phenomenon... Funny how you state your refusal to listen to anything that doesn't fit your bias views, yet you expect me to listen to what you post...
Ewww, donation? **** that. They're no better than televangelists, then--"Send $2,000 to save your soul!"

Originally posted by FeceMan
Uhh...why doesn't this happen to everyone, then? I'm still going with hallucination.

Let me use your rationale as to why this doesn't happen to everyone. First of all, you have no evidence that it does not happen to "everyone." Now let me proceed. Why doesn't everyone walk on water (the only record that we have is Jesus and Peter who have done this). Why don't all people win the Lottery? Why don't all people get straight A's in school? Why aren't all people tall, short, good-looking etc.? Why aren't all people celebrities? Why did Jesus invariably select Peter, James, and John, instead of all twelve of His disciples for certain situations? So, I think you get the idea. You know you would have to ask God. I believe (and that is all it is my "belief" is that God permits certain people to experience spiritual things, Hell, and Heaven so that they can attest to their existence (respectively).

Originally posted by Robtard
As far as I can tell, it requires a $13.00 donation to listen to it, so unless you want to fork over the clams, this dog won't hunt....Not that I'm cheap mind you, I just don't like falling for scams. Also, I do not care how Don Piper describes how he thinks he died for 90 mins and then came back to life without any sort of brain damage, I'd like an actual doctor to confirm this phenomenon... Funny how you state your refusal to listen to anything that doesn't fit your bias views, yet you expect me to listen to what you post...

The link that I provided does not require a fee.

Originally posted by Robtard
As far as I can tell, it requires a $13.00 donation to listen to it, so unless you want to fork over the clams, this dog won't hunt....Not that I'm cheap mind you, I just don't like falling for scams. Also, I do not care how Don Piper describes how he thinks he died for 90 mins and then came back to life without any sort of brain damage, I'd like an actual doctor to confirm this phenomenon... Funny how you state your refusal to listen to anything that doesn't fit your bias views, yet you expect me to listen to what you post...

Did you not ask the question concerning why Don did not suffer brain damage? I merely provided you with the answer.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me use your rationale as to why this doesn't happen to everyone. First of all, you have no evidence that it does not happen to "everyone." Now let me proceed. Why doesn't everyone walk on water (the only record that we have is Jesus and Peter who have done this). Why don't all people win the Lottery? Why don't all people get straight A's in school? Why aren't all people tall, short, good-looking etc.? Why aren't all people celebrities? Why did Jesus invariably select Peter, James, and John, instead of all twelve of His disciples? So, I think you get the idea. You know you would have to ask God. I believe (and that is all it is my "belief" is that God permits certain people to experience spiritual things, Hell, and Heaven so that they can attest to their existence (respectively).

Your mixing facts with religion... Walking on water, Jesus picking disciples are all based on faith in believing these things happened, the latter being very possible while the former being impossible. Everything else you stated is either based on genetics (people being tall etc.) or pure luck/ right circumstances (winning the lottery etc.).

Your analogy is severely flawed.

Originally posted by Robtard
Your mixing facts with religion... Walking on water, Jesus disciples are all based on faith in believing these things happened, the latter being very possible while the former being impossible.

Everything else is either based on genetics (people being tall) or pure luck/ right circumstances (winning the lottery).

Your analogy is severely flawed.

Validate your claim that life after death without suffering brain damage is impossible.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Did you not ask the question concerning why Don did not suffer brain damage? I merely provided you with the answer.

Well of course a guy selling a book telling about dead the afterlife and coming back is going to say how he miraculously died and came back to life without brain damage, just like a door to door salesman is going to tell you his product is superior to his competitors product. I'd like an actual doctor to explain away this 'miracle'.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Validate your claim that life after death without suffering brain damage is impossible.

People have died and they have been brought back to life, but they are usually only dead for a few minutes at most, people that are dead for longer than 15 minutes and are brought back to life have brain damage in varying degrees depending on how long their brain was oxygen deprived. My fathers best friend's infant son suffered S.I.D.S. at 5 months old, the child was without oxygen for roughly 15-20 minutes, the child was brought back to life but due to the 15+ minutes of oxygen depletion, the child has almost zero control of his legs and will require a wheelchair for the rest of his life; the child is age 17 now and still in a wheelchair. If you need further validation, go look it up in a certifified medical journal, you shall find it. Brain oxygen time = brain damage, that is a fact.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me use your rationale as to why this doesn't happen to everyone. First of all, you have no evidence that it does not happen to "everyone." Now let me proceed. Why doesn't everyone walk on water (the only record that we have is Jesus and Peter who have done this). Why don't all people win the Lottery? Why don't all people get straight A's in school? Why aren't all people tall, short, good-looking etc.? Why aren't all people celebrities? Why did Jesus invariably select Peter, James, and John, instead of all twelve of His disciples for certain situations? So, I think you get the idea. You know you would have to ask God. I believe (and that is all it is my "belief" is that God permits certain people to experience spiritual things, Hell, and Heaven so that they can attest to their existence (respectively).
Death occurs to everyone. The afterlife occurs with everyone. However, I suppose this is similar to how people were chosen for "divine inspiration" of the writings of the Bible.

Originally posted by FeceMan
The afterlife occurs with everyone.

Really, I wasn't aware.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Death occurs to everyone. The afterlife occurs with everyone. However, I suppose this is similar to how people were chosen for "divine inspiration" of the writings of the Bible.

I see the analogy, but no it is not the same.

Don had several people who were praying for him (several churches inside and out of the country). The nine wheels of the eighteen-wheeler rolled directly over Don's litte, Ford Escort, crushing it completely. The roof of Don's car came down on Don's head crushing it. Don's condition was exceedingly gory. The pastor continues to pray for Don's deceased, bloodstained, broken, dismembered body (or rather limbs) until suddenly Don's spirit and soul are returned to his body. The pastor (who happen to sing as well) had been singing and praying fervently, and earnestly for Don's dead body to revive by God's power. The pastor (who at the moment was still praying with his hand on Don's bloody shoulder) quickly exited the car after Don (who had been deceased) began to sing. The pastor approaced the EMTs and authorities to go in and see for themselves that Don was singing and he was alive. The authorites and EMT personnel refused to do this (they knew Don was dead) and so they continued to wait for the Justice of Peace to arrive so that he could certify Don's death. Not only did the authorites and EMT not believe the pastor but they condescendingly assured him that there was no possible way that Don could be alive because they had viewed his deceased body. The pastor threatened to lay across the road to keep them from leaving without Don (who was now alive by God's power via the prayers of thousands of people). Finally, 6 hours later Don is at the trauma center being stabilized. After numerous tests (CATSCANS, MRIs) the doctors could not find any trace of the internal injuries and head injuries that Don had sustained. (Remember: the pastor affirmed that God told him to pray for the man in the red car. So the pastor prayed that Don would suffer no internal injuries or head injuries.)

Originally posted by Robtard
Hallelujah! Either God actually intervened and saved Don's brain from 90 minutes of oxygen depletion (requires faith here) OR Don wasn't actually dead even after suffering those massive injuries. People have suffered those types of injuries and not died, or they were kept on life support (brain still receiving oxygen) until they could be patched up. Any chance of Don suffering hypothermia too? That can extend the brain damage setting in, in some rare cases.


God is the reason why Don is alive today telling his true account. There is no other explanation.

Clinical death is usually defined as the medical state in which it is impossible to revive a person with any technology at medicine's disposal, in essence the complete and irreversible cessation of all body functions. Despite the fact that the body continues to live in cases of brain death, it is also seen as a valid definition of clinical death by almost all medical establishments.

In relation to emergency medical care, clinical death occurs when the patient's heartbeat and breathing have stopped. The reversal of this state is possible through CPR, Epinephrine injection, and other treatments.

I thought JIA left the KMC forums...

Originally posted by crazy
I thought JIA left the KMC forums...

Oh, yeah, peace out.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

God is the reason why Don is alive today telling his true account. There is no other explanation.

Clinical death is usually defined as the medical state in which it is impossible to revive a person with any technology at medicine's disposal, in essence the complete and irreversible cessation of all body functions. Despite the fact that the body continues to live in cases of brain death, it is also seen as a valid definition of clinical death by almost all medical establishments.

In relation to emergency medical care, clinical death occurs when the patient's heartbeat and breathing have stopped. The reversal of this state is possible through CPR, Epinephrine injection, and other treatments.



Anothr possible explanation, the story is completely false and this Don is just trying to make a quick dollar from peoples desperate need to justify their belief in God, or the story isn't told in complete truth and certain facts were left out or embelished.


Clinical Death isn't the end all be all... After 5-6 mins of clinical death, resuscitation is still possible but difficult if the body temperature is still normal. Even after 15 mins resuscitation is possible, but it is more difficult and brain damage or even brain death is likely...

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Don had several people who were praying for him (several churches inside and out of the country). The nine wheels of the eighteen-wheeler rolled directly over Don's litte, Ford Escort, crushing it completely. The roof of Don's car came down on Don's head crushing it. Don's condition was exceedingly gory. The pastor continues to pray for Don's deceased, bloodstained, broken, dismembered body (or rather limbs) until suddenly Don's spirit and soul are returned to his body. The pastor (who happen to sing as well) had been singing and praying fervently, and earnestly for Don's dead body to revive by God's power. The pastor (who at the moment was still praying with his hand on Don's bloody shoulder) quickly exited the car after Don (who had been deceased) began to sing. The pastor approaced the EMTs and authorities to go in and see for themselves that Don was singing and he was alive. The authorites and EMT personnel refused to do this (they knew Don was dead) and so they continued to wait for the Justice of Peace to arrive so that he could certify Don's death. Not only did the authorites and EMT not believe the pastor but they condescendingly assured him that there was no possible way that Don could be alive because they had viewed his deceased body. The pastor threatened to lay across the road to keep them from leaving without Don (who was now alive by God's power via the prayers of thousands of people). Finally, 6 hours later Don is at the trauma center being stabilized. After numerous tests (CATSCANS, MRIs) the doctors could not find any trace of the internal injuries and head injuries that Don had sustained. (Remember: the pastor affirmed that God told him to pray for the man in the red car. So the pastor prayed that Don would suffer no internal injuries or head injuries.)

So after having his arm and leg severd, having his chest pierced by the steering wheel, having nearly every bone smashed and lying dead on the cold ground (assuming it was cold since it was raining) bleeding profusely for 90 minutes, Don wakes up and starts to sing? That definately takes faith to believe in nonsense like that.

Originally posted by Robtard
Clinical Death isn't the end all be all... After 5-6 mins of clinical death, resuscitation is still possible but difficult if the body temperature is still normal. Even after 15 mins resuscitation is possible, but it is more difficult and brain damage or even brain death is likely...


But Don had been dead for 90 minutes. The entire time that Don's body was in the car being prayed over, Don vividly describes that his spirit and soul were in Heaven, surrounded by loved ones. Don was immediately met by a friend who had died in high school. Don relates that he heard the wings of angels above his head as though they were ministering to him. Behind his loved ones Don cites seeing a huge, looming gate of luminous, glowing pearl (almost alive). Don says that beyond that was the brightest light that he had ever seen. Don did not know how anyone could survive looking at that light. Don says that he saw colors that do not exist here on earth. Don saw the sidewalks of transparent gold (gold is transparent it only looks brownish-yellow because of an impurity).

Originally posted by Robtard
So after having his arm and leg severd, having his chest pierced by the steering wheel, having nearly every bone smashed and lying dead on the cold ground (assuming it was cold since it was raining) bleeding profusely for 90 minutes, Don wakes up and starts to sing? That definately takes faith to believe in nonsense like that.


No, Don's deceased body was still inside the car, under the tarp. You have left out the important details that culminate in Don's resuscitation. The way that you described is not complete in terms of how Don came to be revived from death.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But Don had been dead for 90 minutes. The entire time that Don's body was in the car being prayed over, Don vividly describes that his spirit and soul were in Heaven, surrounded by loved ones. Don was immediately met by a friend who had died in high school. Don relates that he heard the wings of angels above his head as though they were ministering to him. Behind his loved ones Don cites seeing a huge, looming gate of luminous, glowing pearl (almost alive). Don says that beyond that was the brightest light that he had ever seen. Don did not know how anyone could survive looking at that light. Don says that he saw colors that do not exist here on earth. Don saw the sidewalks of transparent gold (gold is transparent it only looks brownish-yellow because of an impurity).

Exactly, I question the 'fact' that Don was actully dead for 90 minutes, the more you post of the story, the more I question it. With every passage it gets more and more improbable. How Don describes heaven is your typical 'candy bait' view of heaven religious people like to temp people with, "glowing pearl", "brightest light", "colors that do not exist here on earth" and "sidewalks of transparent gold" all said to coerce people.

Originally posted by Robtard
Exactly, I question the 'fact' that Don was actully dead for 90 minutes, the more you post of the story, the more I question it. With every passage it gets more and more improbable. How Don describes heaven is your typical 'candy bait' view of heaven religious people like to temp people with, "glowing pearl", "brightest light", "colors that do not exist here on earth" and "sidewalks of transparent gold" all said to coerce people.

There were several eyewitnesses, the EMTs (people who have undergone countless hours of preparation, training, and study to provide emergency medical care) concluded that Don was indeed dead. There were originally four ambulances to treat other people who sufferred minor injuries. But three of those ambulances left. The EMTs and other authorities were simply waiting for the Justice of Peace to arrive to give the official pronouncement of Don's decease. So, yes, you are correct in saying that God intervened.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There were several eyewitnesses, the EMTs (people who have undergone countless hours of preparation, training, and study to provide emergency medical care) concluded that Don was indeed dead. There were originally four ambulances to treat other people who sufferred minor injuries. But three of those ambulances left. The EMTs and other authorities were simply waiting for the Justice of Peace to arrive to give the official pronouncement of Don's decease. So, yes, you are correct in saying that God intervened.

Dude, besides the obvious improbabilities in the story which I question is authentic to begin with... It speaks of God speaking to a man and God bringing a guy back to life after doing a 90 minute drive by in heaven. As Yoda would say, 'Lunacy, it is.'

Don Piper's True Account

Don Piper was relieved when the pastor's conference he had been attending finished a little early that Wednesday in January 1989. Being associate pastor and having just been appointed minister of education at a Houston area church, Don was a busy man. The early start home would provide him much needed time to mentally organize his hectic schedule.
"I was thinking about that night and also that I was going to be preaching that next Sunday morning in three services," Don remembers.

Little did Don know he would be late for the service that night--not just by minutes or hours, but by months--and before he got home, he would take a detour he would never forget.

Within minutes of leaving the retreat center, Don drove onto a bridge spanning a lake. It was a fairly long bridge and there was water on both sides of the elevated highway.

Recalling the scene, Don says, "I approached the end of the bridge, and before I reached the end, a tractor-trailer truck owned by the Texas Dept. of Corrections crossed the center stripe and hit my car head on."

Not only did the truck hit Don's car, it ran over the passenger side of the small Ford Escort, completely crushing the vehicle and killing Don Piper. Instantly, Don began an amazing journey.

"When I was killed, I was instantly transported to heaven's gate," he says. "It was an instantaneous thing."

Don found himself standing in front of a divine portal, surrounded by familiar faces.


"I did not see a single person that I did not know," he says. "They were relatives, they were friends that died in high school, they were teachers--they were people I had seen and known all my life who had gone to glory. They were smiling; they were embracing me; they were welcoming me' they were in the process of taking me through the gate of heaven."

Looking over the heads of his friends, Don saw a looming pearl gate.

"The gate of heaven was a magnificent edifice, the one that I saw. It looked no less like a giant gate that had been sculpted from mother-of-pearl," Don explains.

Peering through the gate, Don saw an incredible light.

"Behind that portal was such a light that I don't conceive of how you could see it in an earthly body. It could only be envisioned in a heavenly body because it was too bright."

And, says Don, there was music, that of a literal, angelic choir.

"In all honesty, as awesome as the sight was, the sound was more amazing," he says. "I heard literally thousands of praise songs. They were all praise songs. I really couldn't see anything. I was so preoccupied with the people around me, I couldn't see anything. But you could sense this hum of wings hovering all about you, like you were being ministered to by angels, and they were observing this whole episode."

While Don stood at the gates of heaven, pastor Dick Onarecker of Klein, Texas, stood on a Texas highway by Don's lifeless body. He had also attended the pastor's conference. He came upon the accident moments after it happened. The EMS personnel had told him that Don was dead.

"It was as though I was compelled to stop and to pray for him. The Lord had just impressed on me very emphatically, very urgently that I was to pray for him," says Dick. "I walked over by the door. There was great physical damage on the outside. I laid my hands on him and began to pray for him."

As soon as Don's journey began, it ended. Don found himself back in his crushed vehicle, staring up at a tarp that had been thrown over him by medical attendants.

Says Don, "The first conscious memory was 'What a Friend we have in Jesus.' I was singing. I was thinking to myself, Why am I singing this song? I'm in the dark, and I knew it was about noon time when the accident happened. I'm in the dark, I'm singing, and I'm holding a hand. I'm thinking to myself, What on earth is happening?"

Dick had begun singing hymns to Don.

"The Lord impressed on me not only to pray for him but that there would be no internal injuries and that there would be no head injuries. Then, I began to sing, and I to heard him singing with me," says Dick.

Don was transported to Herman Hospital in Houston. Miraculously, he suffered no head or internal injuries. However, virtually every bone in Don's body was either broken or shattered.

His left arm and left leg were completely severed, and had to be rebuilt and replaced. Looking at his battered and pain-seared body, this man who had touched heaven's gates wanted to go back.

"My mindset was having now been able to see what the matter with me was, and to know how beautiful heaven was, to want to be there again. As much as I loved these people that I was with, I was so confident of their salvation experiences that I knew they would join me sometime in the future," Don says.

But the prayers and love of family and friends pulled Don through four months of intensive therapy, numerous operations, and infections that on two occasions almost claimed his life.

"I like to say that I came back by popular demand," he says. "People prayed me back from the gates of heaven. People prayed me back from death's door. I'm here because people asked God for me to be here."

Still don't believe? Well, it is all documented.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Don Piper's True Account

Don Piper was relieved when the pastor's conference he had been attending finished a little early that Wednesday in January 1989. Being associate pastor and having just been appointed minister of education at a Houston area church, Don was a busy man. The early start home would provide him much needed time to mentally organize his hectic schedule.
"I was thinking about that night and also that I was going to be preaching that next Sunday morning in three services," Don remembers.

Little did Don know he would be late for the service that night--not just by minutes or hours, but by months--and before he got home, he would take a detour he would never forget.

Within minutes of leaving the retreat center, Don drove onto a bridge spanning a lake. It was a fairly long bridge and there was water on both sides of the elevated highway.

Recalling the scene, Don says, "I approached the end of the bridge, and before I reached the end, a tractor-trailer truck owned by the Texas Dept. of Corrections crossed the center stripe and hit my car head on."

Not only did the truck hit Don's car, it ran over the passenger side of the small Ford Escort, completely crushing the vehicle and killing Don Piper. Instantly, Don began an amazing journey.

"When I was killed, I was instantly transported to heaven's gate," he says. "It was an instantaneous thing."

Don found himself standing in front of a divine portal, surrounded by familiar faces.


"I did not see a single person that I did not know," he says. "They were relatives, they were friends that died in high school, they were teachers--they were people I had seen and known all my life who had gone to glory. They were smiling; they were embracing me; they were welcoming me' they were in the process of taking me through the gate of heaven."

Looking over the heads of his friends, Don saw a looming pearl gate.

"The gate of heaven was a magnificent edifice, the one that I saw. It looked no less like a giant gate that had been sculpted from mother-of-pearl," Don explains.

Peering through the gate, Don saw an incredible light.

"Behind that portal was such a light that I don't conceive of how you could see it in an earthly body. It could only be envisioned in a heavenly body because it was too bright."

And, says Don, there was music, that of a literal, angelic choir.

"In all honesty, as awesome as the sight was, the sound was more amazing," he says. "I heard literally thousands of praise songs. They were all praise songs. I really couldn't see anything. I was so preoccupied with the people around me, I couldn't see anything. But you could sense this hum of wings hovering all about you, like you were being ministered to by angels, and they were observing this whole episode."

While Don stood at the gates of heaven, pastor Dick Onarecker of Klein, Texas, stood on a Texas highway by Don's lifeless body. He had also attended the pastor's conference. He came upon the accident moments after it happened. The EMS personnel had told him that Don was dead.

"It was as though I was compelled to stop and to pray for him. The Lord had just impressed on me very emphatically, very urgently that I was to pray for him," says Dick. "I walked over by the door. There was great physical damage on the outside. I laid my hands on him and began to pray for him."

As soon as Don's journey began, it ended. Don found himself back in his crushed vehicle, staring up at a tarp that had been thrown over him by medical attendants.

Says Don, "The first conscious memory was 'What a Friend we have in Jesus.' I was singing. I was thinking to myself, Why am I singing this song? I'm in the dark, and I knew it was about noon time when the accident happened. I'm in the dark, I'm singing, and I'm holding a hand. I'm thinking to myself, What on earth is happening?"

Dick had begun singing hymns to Don.

"The Lord impressed on me not only to pray for him but that there would be no internal injuries and that there would be no head injuries. Then, I began to sing, and I to heard him singing with me," says Dick.

Don was transported to Herman Hospital in Houston. Miraculously, he suffered no head or internal injuries. However, virtually every bone in Don's body was either broken or shattered.

His left arm and left leg were completely severed, and had to be rebuilt and replaced. Looking at his battered and pain-seared body, this man who had touched heaven's gates wanted to go back.

"My mindset was having now been able to see what the matter with me was, and to know how beautiful heaven was, to want to be there again. As much as I loved these people that I was with, I was so confident of their salvation experiences that I knew they would join me sometime in the future," Don says.

But the prayers and love of family and friends pulled Don through four months of intensive therapy, numerous operations, and infections that on two occasions almost claimed his life.

"I like to say that I came back by popular demand," he says. "People prayed me back from the gates of heaven. People prayed me back from death's door. I'm here because people asked God for me to be here."

Would it be to much to ask to see the medical and police reports?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Still don't believe? Well, it is all documented.

Many things are documented, like evolution, natural selection, errosion, tectonic plate shifting, physics etc., yet some people refuse to believe those things...

Originally posted by Robtard
Many things are documented, like evolution, natural selection, physics etc., yet some people refuse to believe those things...

But Don's accident is a documented "fact" unlike evolution.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But Don's accident is a documented "fact" unlike evolution.

Would it be to much to ask to see the medical and police reports?

Originally posted by Robtard
Would it be to much to ask to see the medical and police reports? If I had them I would overnight a copy to your home.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If I had them I would overnight a copy to your home.

So Don Piper included them in his book?

Originally posted by Robtard
So Don Piper included them in his book? I do not have Don's book.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I do not have Don's book.

Yet you are willing to believe it as fact?

I work very close to a Barnes & Noble; after work tomorrow, I'll swing by and look at the books table of contents. I'm willing to bet that the two things that would give some credit to Don's story, the medical and police reports are conveniently omitted from the work.

Originally posted by Robtard
I work very close to a Barnes & Noble, after work tomorrow, I'll swing by and look at the books table of contents. I'm willing to bet that the two things that would give some credit to Don's story, the medical and police reports are conveniently omitted from the work.

I am sure that if anyone sincerely desires to know the truth that there is a paper trail that would effortlessly corroborate Don's account. I'm sure there are newspaper clippings, microfiche and all other technology that prove Don's death and subsequent revival. I am sure there are medical practitioners and law enforcement records that easiy sustain Don's true account.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am sure that if anyone sincerely desires to know the truth that there is a paper trail that would effortlessly corroborate Don's account. I'm sure there are newspaper clippings, microfiche and all other technology that prove Don's death and subsequent revival. I am sure there are medical practitioners and law enforcement records that easiy sustain Don's true account.

If you are so "sure", then find that trail you old hound dog, corroborate Don's story, post those clippings, post those records. Prove that someone could be dead for 90 minutes and then be revived without severe brain damage. Validate the story.

Originally posted by Robtard
If you are so "sure", then find that trail you old hound dog, corroborate Don's story, post those clippings, post those records. Prove that someone could be dead for 90 minutes and then be revived without severe brain damage. Validate the story.

But I am not the one in disbelief. I said previously that if a person sincerely desires to know if Don's account is true that there is sufficient documentation.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But I am not the one in disbelief. I said previously that if a person sincerely desires to know if Don's account is true that there is sufficient documentation.

Oh ok, have at it, believe what you like, personally though, when I hear a fantasy like story, I demand proof before I believe it. Like Big Foot, I do not believe in Big Foot even though people swear up and down they have seen one. Also, saying "there is sufficient documentation" is being dishonest, since you have not researched the story and just accepted it as fact from face value.

Originally posted by Robtard
Oh ok, have at it, believe what you like, personally though, when I hear a fantasy like story, I demand proof before I believe it. Like Big Foot, I do not believe in Big Foot even though people swear up and down they have seen one. Also, saying "there is sufficient documentation" is being dishonest, since you have not researched the story and just accepted it as fact from face value.


http://www.90minutesinheaven.com/ Click on this url then click "launch video" to see pictures of Don Piper's demolished car, a picture of the bridge that he traveled on at the time of the accident, and pictures of Emergency Response personnel.

'90 Minutes in Heaven' sounds like a porno.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.90minutesinheaven.com/ Click on this url then click "launch video" to see pictures of Don Piper's demolished car, a picture of the bridge that he traveled on at the time of the accident, and pictures of Emergency Response personnel.

I am not necessarily doubting that Don Piper was in an accident, that he suffered massive injuries and that EMT's arrived at the crash site. I doubt the validity of the series of said events, mainly in Don actually being dead for 90 minutes and then suddenly coming back to life, singing no less, without brain damage.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me use your rationale as to why this doesn't happen to everyone. First of all, you have no evidence that it does not happen to "everyone." Now let me proceed. Why doesn't everyone walk on water (the only record that we have is Jesus and Peter who have done this). Why don't all people win the Lottery? Why don't all people get straight A's in school? Why aren't all people tall, short, good-looking etc.? Why aren't all people celebrities? Why did Jesus invariably select Peter, James, and John, instead of all twelve of His disciples for certain situations? So, I think you get the idea. You know you would have to ask God. I believe (and that is all it is my "belief" is that God permits certain people to experience spiritual things, Hell, and Heaven so that they can attest to their existence (respectively).


I think what he was asking was how come only some people experience a vision of Heaven or Hell, while others don't ?

You said those were Athiests who saw it for themselves...why can't all Athiests, Agnostics, or people of other Faiths experience this phenomena ?

Wouldn't God's "truths" be less easy to deny afterward ?

I bet there are cases like this for every religion, crazy stuff like this, I know I have heard it for Islam and Bhuddism before. Really cool stories I will give you that.

Originally posted by Alliance
I believe Chirstianity is currently the only reliigon in the US that is loosing members.



Nah, plenty are besides Christianity. But the Church is making a killing in the Third World right now (Africa, among other places).

I wasn't aware...why didn't the Catholics elect a Latino or black pope then?

Originally posted by Alliance
I wasn't aware...why didn't the Catholics elect a Latino or black pope then?

There was a black pope that was considered, and my father almost shot the tv when they elected Benedict. (My father's heavily Catholic, and hates Benedict for some reason).

I "hate" (as in he severly disturbs me) Benedict beause the headed the inquisition, which killed many of "my people."

Originally posted by Alliance
I "hate" (as in he severly disturbs me) Benedict beause the headed the inquisition, which killed many of "my people."

And your people would be strict Catholics who didn't believe in religious segregation ?

no...athiests...intellectuals...non-Catholics...

Originally posted by Alliance
no...athiests...intellectuals...non-Catholics...

Intellectual non-Catholics? So you mean no one?

pretty much...a walking Parrot-Ox I am.

Originally posted by Alliance
pretty much...a walking Parrot-Ox I am.

Shut up and do my taxes.

Erm...no.

Originally posted by Alliance
Erm...no.

Ya. That was a bad attempt at humor.

No.... it was a bad attempt. Taxes for me aren't due until my Uncles birthday.

Think about THAT....giving birth on tax day.

Originally posted by Alliance
No.... it was a bad attempt. Taxes for me aren't due until my Uncles birthday.

Think about THAT....giving birth on tax day.

Ya. Kinda like dying on your birthday.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Ya. Kinda like dying on your birthday.

When I die, I want it to be on my birthday. It just seems right.

Eveness is unnatural.

What I want to know is why do we never have NDE of people going to Hell before coming back? They all seem to go to heaven.

Anyway, I am dubious about the claims. The whole "definitely dead" thing could be dodgy. I know there have been a lot of Emergency personnel, sometimes in serious accidents or in high stress situations where a misdiagnosis or incorrect declaration of death has been made. And where even doctors in the past have thought someone dead who was simply in a very, very deep coma (or in very deep shock.)

As to Doctors throwing their hands up and going "it is a miracle!" - once again not so strange, and not as indicative as it sounds. I have a med student friend who enjoys telling me stories (mostly about autopsies) where something of very low probability has occurred and someone has gone "it is a miracle."

But anyway - this claim, it is Jesus level stuff. It is not a Near Death Experience. If it is true, really true, then he was dead. And his brain should have been so badly damaged that it shouldn't have mattered whether he came back or not. And most Christians tell me that Jesus level miracles are not really that common any more. People seeing a light when being near dead? Sure, why not. But a person being really dead and badly messed up from an accident? I mean gee, if the accident was bad enough to kill him, they wouldn't have been fixing his body after he was dead, would they? Technically when he "came back from heaven his body should still have been in a bad state.

Originally posted by Alliance
I wasn't aware...why didn't the Catholics elect a Latino or black pope then?

The Christian front is recruiting heavily in India right now, mostly among India's 'untouchable' caste.

Originally posted by Robtard
The Christian front is recruiting heavily in India right now, mostly among India's 'untouchable' caste.

Much like Communism religion can find mass support amongst those unhappy or dreaming of something, anything, better then their current prediciment.

If I was cynical...

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
What I want to know is why do we never have NDE of people going to Hell before coming back? They all seem to go to heaven.

Anyway, I am dubious about the claims. The whole "definitely dead" thing could be dodgy. I know there have been a lot of Emergency personnel, sometimes in serious accidents or in high stress situations where a misdiagnosis or incorrect declaration of death has been made. And where even doctors in the past have thought someone dead who was simply in a very, very deep coma (or in very deep shock.)

As to Doctors throwing their hands up and going "it is a miracle!" - once again not so strange, and not as indicative as it sounds. I have a med student friend who enjoys telling me stories (mostly about autopsies) where something of very low probability has occurred and someone has gone "it is a miracle."

But anyway - this claim, it is Jesus level stuff. It is not a Near Death Experience. If it is true, really true, then he was dead. And his brain should have been so badly damaged that it shouldn't have mattered whether he came back or not. And most Christians tell me that Jesus level miracles are not really that common any more. People seeing a light when being near dead? Sure, why not. But a person being really dead and badly messed up from an accident? I mean gee, if the accident was bad enough to kill him, they wouldn't have been fixing his body after he was dead, would they? Technically when he "came back from heaven his body should still have been in a bad state.

Good points, but I fear you're just wasting your breath... Look at the first 2-3 pages of this thread, I tried and tried to get JIA to understand what happens with brain oxygen depletion, he just won't accept facts.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Much like Communism religion can find mass support amongst those unhappy or dreaming of something, anything, better then their current prediciment.

If I was cynical...

I honestly can't blame those 'untouchable' Indians for converting, their religion pretty much takes a huge smelly dump on them the moment they are born. But converting to Christianity won't do anything though, they'll still be in Indian and they'll still be shat upon.

Originally posted by Robtard
I honestly can't blame those 'untouchable' Indians for converting, their religion pretty much takes a huge smelly dump on them the moment they are born. But converting to Christianity won't do anything though, they'll still be in Indian and they'll still be shat upon.

True, which is what makes it sad. But then some say that hope, even false hope is better then nothing. Ultimately without real social change (which Christianity is not there to provide) they are going to remain untouchable, they will simply think that after death Jesus will give them a hug.

Though it is an interesting twist - with numbers amongst the powerful and rich (the traditional old white Protestant male) dropping they are going back to their roots - the needy.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
True, which is what makes it sad. But then some say that hope, even false hope is better then nothing. Ultimately without real social change (which Christianity is not there to provide) they are going to remain untouchable, they will simply think that after death Jesus will give them a hug.

Though it is an interesting twist - with numbers amongst the powerful and rich (the traditional old white Protestant male) dropping they are going back to their roots - the needy.

Good point, being a Christian can get in the way of being powerful and rich.

JIA, here is a paper saying I am king of the world....so, you have to bown down to me now....and give me a 10% tithing.

So JIA, what about people who have these kind of ordeals but convert to other religions, that is all lies right because it is not Christianity.

Originally posted by crazy
So JIA, what about people who have these kind of ordeals but convert to other religions, that is all lies right because it is not Christianity.

Stop talking about me.

Originally posted by lord xyz
That was brilliant JIA, I guess there is a heavan after all. Well done.

Don't encourage him.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Don't encourage him.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Deny all you wish it does not change anything. These people know what they saw and experienced. If you had gone through this and was trying to tell people about it there would be many who would not believe you either.

And I would accept it if what I was telling them flew in the face of rationality, especially when there are plausible explanations for what actually happened.



Well maybe your wise God should do something about that - seeing is believing they say.



Well, that is quite a different view of the afterlife then most Christians seem to hold. And what is the whole "Dark tunnel with light at end" part of such tales if the transfer is instantaneous?



You seemed to enjoy typing that. Certainly sounds like a delightful form of torture that you God has come up with.



Which strikes me as odd. You say you are here for no other reason to teach, yet sometimes when asked difficult things you come over all tired (better then the old headache excuse though.)



Many testimonies - yet less then certifiable proof. Explain why it is not accepted? Maybe because there has not been any verifiable data. Not sure which idyllic part of the world you live in, yet there are no where near the numbers of people somehow loosing a terminal illness as you make out. Pretty much you get it, you die. Some people fight on and live for years after the date the Doctor said they would die - human will. Others have been misdiagnosed and the disease was not as serious as first thought. Or sometimes it turns out they never even happened. Like this case - misdiagnosis of death. It happens. With alarming frequency.



Why don't they get as much recognition as the people who made it to heaven?



Once, when I was little I got out of bed and stepped on a plastic dinosaur in the dark (it was a stegosaurus to. Painful.) It hurt and I fairly threw myself back into bed convinced there was something unpleasant down there (the monster under the bed as it were.) Of course in the day light I saw it for what it was and knew that it was merely a byproduct of fear and the dark and a mind addled by sleep. See the comparison? Funny things happen to the mind when on the verge of death - this is documented. Hallucinations and the whole shebang. Yet they believe it, and often the morning and light never comes to show it is just a plastic dinosaur.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
What I want to know is why do we never have NDE of people going to Hell before coming back? They all seem to go to heaven.

Well there is one book that I have read about the Hell experience. It's called A Divine Revelation of Hell It is is quite sick and weird. Jesus, our wonderful Jesus takes a man to hell and leaves him there just so he can see. Now in the book hell is shaped like a womens body of all things. and there are many different compartments to it. Many pits with only one person to a pit of fire. They are screaming and their skin keeps burning off (first mistake, spirits don't have skin.)....There are children there also.....(goes against biblical teachings.)....And Jesus keeps reappearing and then disappearing leaving this poor man frightened, horrified and alone down there. Something a real Jesus would NOT do..............weird book...

Imperial_Samura, great post above.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Which strikes me as odd. You say you are here for no other reason to teach, yet sometimes when asked difficult things you come over all tired (better then the old headache excuse though.)





JIA, YOU SUCK !

Originally posted by Lord Urizen


JIA, YOU SUCK !

I thought you liked that.

I don't know....Urizen would you accept some action from JIA?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen


JIA, YOU SUCK ! Not nice.........nope..........we were all there at one point were we not?tv_horror??

No. I was never THERE.

Coolest for U..........yet many of us did come from strong back grounds and did study...........soooooooo.......I guess it was easier for you all along..................(not slamming), just an observation on what people might overcome.

As I said...my church raised mew to be a citizen of the community.

To me, THATS what Jesus was about...and in many ways I havent changed I replaced God with philosophy and go the same results...

...its why I'm so passionate about government.

Denomination?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
...Question: did this man skip a beat when he died? I get all of my information from the Bible. Occasionally, I will post someone's personal testimony to corroborate what the Bible already revealed.

In other words, you don't have a clue. Blind faith leaves a person open to great evil.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In other words, you don't have a clue. Blind faith leaves a person open to great evil.

Hey, Shak, why do you spend so much time opposing everything that I write about the things of God (i.e., the Bible, Jesus, etc.)? Do I spend every waking moment protesting Buddhism? I am just asking a serious question. Anyhoo, carry on with the opposition, just thought I'd ask.

Originally posted by Alliance
As I said...my church raised mew to be a citizen of the community.

To me, THATS what Jesus was about...and in many ways I havent changed I replaced God with philosophy and go the same results...

...its why I'm so passionate about government.

Yes, I agree - it is one of the failings of certain followers of any religion that claim their religion is the only way to achieve that positive part of life - yet philosophy can. Other religions can. Society, hopefully when healthy, can.

That what Jefferson thought. He saw education as the great equilizer. Ther first University in the world with a Library at its center rather than a Chapel. That man was brilliant.

Of course most of the founding fathers were Deist. I still feel strong resonances from that religion.

Originally posted by Alliance
That what Jefferson thought. He saw education as the great equilizer. Ther first University in the world with a Library at its center rather than a Chapel. That man was brilliant.

Of course most of the founding fathers were Deist. I still feel strong resonances from that religion.

Indeed. I suspect that if I were ever to follow a religion (outside of Buddhism or Hinduism) then Deist would get my vote - for the way it approaches it, and simply because it fits in the closest with the way I think.

It's a shame it doesn't really get much recongition any more. The world needs less fundamentalists and more Deists.

Desim faded out when the enlightenment did. I agree that it was unfortunate...but were are parts that are archaic.

Modern philosophies like nationalism and facism could make good substitutes.

Originally posted by Alliance
Desim faded out when the enlightenment did. I agree that it was unfortunate...but were are parts that are archaic.

Modern philosophies like nationalism and facism could make good substitutes.

True, true. Of course Fascism due to publicity issues wouldn't be a good poster child for it.

I believe, at one point that Atheism attracted potential Deists as well, despite some fundamental differences.

Desim was the atheism of the day.

Facism is brilliant...if only it wer applied in moderation and with the gentle fist of democracy.

Originally posted by Alliance
Facism is brilliant...if only it wer applied in moderation and with the gentle fist of democracy.

Yes, though like with so many other political theories/ideologies people misused it, and as a result it is tainted. Potential wasted. Whether it is ever to rise again is hard to tell. Perhaps. Though analysts seem to believe things like Communism will always have an easier time returning to power due to the affinity it has with oppresses masses.

And there are always oppressed masses somewhere.

Heinlein didn't think it was a missed opportunity. His system of government was brilliant. And he wrote in one of the most conservative and anti-facist periods of modern American history.

Originally posted by Alliance
Heinlein didn't think it was a missed opportunity. His system of government was brilliant. And he wrote in one of the most conservative and anti-facist periods of modern American history.

I would agree to a point. It is fortunate he was able write without falling to the problems of censure, of course many people seem to miss potential social commentary these days.

Whether such a vision will ever become a reality is a whole other Christian - of course with every book that deals with the potential for it to be a worthy system there a dozen others demonizing it.

Religion needs to be replaced with loyalty to the constitution.

Originally posted by Alliance
Religion needs to be replaced with loyalty to the constitution.

One of the reasons why Marx saw religion as needing to be removed from political system. And the Romans. Things that call for loyalty to something other then the state and the people can prove detrimental to national unity.

Yes. Except the Romans put in place the Imperial cult.

That went over fabulously with the Christians (who were too busy sitting on their poles).

Originally posted by Alliance
Yes. Except the Romans put in place the Imperial cult.

That went over fabulously with the Christians (who were too busy sitting on their poles).

Well ancient Governments knew the value of religion as a unifying feature of the state. It so often seemed to be a balancing act. Problems only really arose when certain religions got out of step.

These days... I'm not sure what has really replaced religion in the loyalty stakes. Culture perhaps? In certain places it is state. In many western nations there seems to be a distinct lack of great philosophical movements for people to dedicate themselves to. Maybe it is just living -work, earning.

Its our lack of respect for education.

Originally posted by crazy
So JIA, what about people who have these kind of ordeals but convert to other religions, that is all lies right because it is not Christianity.

Let me answer your question with a question. How many addresses to your home is there? How many people share your fingerprint? How many biological mothers do you have? How many people have your social security number? The answer to each of these questions should suggest uniqueness, singularity, or individuality (i.e., things that are either limited or unique to you and those with whom you have to do). Your address is unique to your home. No other residence has your address and leads directly to your home. You are the only one in this world with the fingerprint that you have. There are perhaps more than six billion people on this planet and yet not one of them has your unique fingerprint. The woman who carried you in her womb and brought you into the world is the only woman who can affirm to be your biological mother (truthfully). Your social security number is specific to you, there isn't another person alive with your social security (legally). I said all that to say this: just as all of these things connote singularity, the truth concerning who the true God is also implies singularity. There is only one true God. All of the innumerable gods and religions of this world do not lead to the same place. Well, why not you ask? Revert to the line of questions that I asked you at the outset of this post. Do you see the singularity in the examples that I gave. There is uniqueness in each analogy. But yet there is only one address to your home, one person with your fingerprint (you), you have one, true biological mother, and you are the only one with your social security number. Similarly, there is only one, true God and path to God. There is no difference. Just because there are many religions does not validate those systems of belief. There may be many celebrity look-a-likes but the person who they are masquerading as is the true celebrity. So, yes although people may convert to other religions they are simply mislead (but earnestly sincere) people. This is not a putdown, it is an observation. I encourage you to go back and re-read the examples at the top as a review in support of what I have just written concerning the reality of there only being one true God and system of beliefs in spite of the many that exist.

Yes, but there are cases - Islam, Hinduism, different branches of Catholicism where people claimed to have had NDE that have confirmed their faith. Or convinced them they were following the wrong one and converted to the one they experienced in the NDE.

Now, if we are to believe this chappy died, went to heaven for 90 minutes, and woke up again fine, then shouldn't we be believing the one about another chappy who died or nearly did and saw Ganesh in the after life before being brought back - the obstacle removed?

Your whole "one true address is flawed" - if people were only experiencing one type of NDE then it would count. However when people are experiencing different types it is impossible to know who to believe, and like always it does not solve the matter by saying "The answer is the ones with God are real, because he is the true path, the Bible says so." Either all must be considered potentially valid or none can.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me answer your question with a question.

Another question is not an answer at all. I believe you don't really have any answers.

Originally posted by Robtard
I wouldn't know if he skipped a beat and the story isn't that specific to conclude if he did or didn't really, maybe time stands still when you die and what seemed to him like a nanosecond, a decade or and eon passed. Possible? Also, if we don't "skip a beat", then why all the near death or temporary death experiences where people travel through tunnels of light and lapse in time before they actually reach heaven as you have posted yourself?

What I also want to know is, why did the rich man suddnely die? I understand that the beggar was malnourished and had some sort of sickness (sores could equate bubonic plague) so his death is of no surprise, but why did the rich man die? Solely because he was rich and didn't give? If so, there would hardly be any rich people in the world, most rich people do not give to charity all they could.

That's fine that you get all your info from the Bible, but I promise you there are people who have had near death experiences and not experienced a trip to Heaven or Hell, what makes why they say more or less credible?

The Bible does not indicate that the rich man "suddenly" died. It just let's us know that at some point in his life that he did die. It could have happened decades later. Realize this: there is no time in eternity (which applies to the spiritual world). Lazarus could have been dead for 50 years because their is no time in eternity.

As far as your conjecture as to the rich man's death somehow relating to his net worth, it is not wise to read into the text what is not there. God does not reveal to us "why" the rich man died, so doesn't it make since to just leave it at that?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible does not indicate that the rich man "suddenly" died. It just let's us know that at some point in his life that he did die. It could have happened decades later. Realize this: there is no time in eternity (which applies to the spiritual world). Lazarus could have been dead for 50 years because their is no time in eternity.

As far as your conjecture as to the rich man's death somehow relating to his net worth, it is not wise to read into the text what is not there. God does not reveal to us "why" the rich man died, so doesn't it make since to just leave it at that?


It could just be a story.

It IS a story...such is all mythology.

And of course that was the Biblical way of getting the message across - it was told in story form - One day this happened and then Jesus did this and the moral of this tale is.

Yes, all stories.

Hmm... I thought this would be about some Highschool game involving a boy, a girl and a closet. I'm thoroughly disappointed.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hmm... I thought this would be about some Highschool game involving a boy, a girl and a closet. I'm thoroughly disappointed.

For 90 minutes? Our version only laster for 50 minutes. (which was how long the lunch break was.)......

..... Unless of course one was unavoidably detained and missed a little class.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
For 90 minutes? Our version only laster for 50 minutes. (which was how long the lunch break was.)......

..... Unless of course one was unavoidably detained and missed a little class. I suppose 90 minutes is a bit of a stretch, especially for teens.

I've never seen the phrase "unavoidably detained" made so salacious.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I suppose 90 minutes is a bit of a stretch, especially for teens.

I've never seen the phrase "unavoidably detained" made so salacious.

Don't worry, I intended the phrase to have such an effect.

Is it just me or is the High School make-out (and/or more) game a much more interesting topic than whatever the actual intended topic is?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Is it just me or is the High School make-out (and/or more) game a much more interesting topic than whatever the actual intended topic is?

That is a resounding... yes. Maybe because it is a fun topic opposed to the irrationality the permeates the real one.

JIA's literally born again Christian? Personally I would have thought it funny if he had woken up 90 minutes later in the Morgue and gone "I've just had the most amazing experience.... oh my god, I can see my own spleen!!!!!"

90 minutes being unavoidable detained in the morgue. Now there's one for the psychiatrist.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
90 minutes being unavoidable detained in the morgue. Now there's one for the psychiatrist.

Or forensics. Depending on the situation.

Originally posted by Robtard
Gee, so original, using my screen name to insult me... Funny, when someone catches you in a contradiction, you suddenly turn from 'passionate (about the bible), likable, understanding, and patient guy' to 'whiny, angry, crybaby bitchboy'; bipolar are we? As far as the bosom/homo-erotic part, that was obviously some light humor I threw in for shits and giggles, a Cranial Colossus like yourself should have seen that. Like I told you before, if you do not want me answering your post and asking you questions about you're post, just ask. What I didn't do is get personal and have an anal-spasm like you just did above.

Ask yourself, "What Would Jesus Do", if faced with a "slow ones" who "rode the sweet pickles bus"? Would Jesus resort to petty insults or would Jesus have compassion and understanding? Going off the Bible, Jesus would definitely do the latter. You have failed in your mission to be like Jesus and spread his word... Sorry, failing sucks.

I maike an effort to answer all of your questions (which are many times disrespectful) but you seem to reply with gratuitous sarcasm. Is there a need for it? I can understand being facetious and comical but you seem to go beyond that. I can take it but it just means that I have to make adjustments to how I respond to you. The previous post was just one example of that. I suggest we keep our posts clean, light, congenial, and informative. But what do you say?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I maike an effort to answer all of your questions (which are many times disrespectful) but you seem to reply with gratuitous sarcasm. Is there a need for it? I can understand being facetious and comical but you seem to go beyond that. I can take it but it just means that I have to make adjustments to how I respond to you. The previous post was just one example of that. I suggest we keep our posts clean, light, congenial, and informative. But what do you say?

I make light jabs only when you post off the wall stuff (i.e. You having the ability to cure people of sickness by laying hands on them) and that is to be expected. Come on now, if I claimed to have the supernatural ability to suck people into my anus and send them into other dimensions, people here would take jabs at me for it and I couldn't blame them. When you post like you personally know what God wants or what Jesus thinks (same thing I guess since Jesus=God) I can't help but have a sarcastic tone, because to me you sound pompous. Sure, but as you said before "I do, what I do."

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I maike an effort to answer all of your questions (which are many times disrespectful) but you seem to reply with gratuitous sarcasm. Is there a need for it? I can understand being facetious and comical but you seem to go beyond that. I can take it but it just means that I have to make adjustments to how I respond to you. The previous post was just one example of that. I suggest we keep our posts clean, light, congenial, and informative. But what do you say?

Those who show respect for others, receives respect from others. The same is true of disrespect.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Those who show respect for others, receives respect from others. The same is true of disrespect.

Confucius?

Originally posted by Robtard
I make light jabs only when you post off the wall stuff (i.e. You having the ability to cure people of sickness by laying hands on them) and that is to be expected. Come on now, if I claimed to have the supernatural ability to suck people into my anus and send them into other dimensions, people here would take jabs at me for it and I couldn't blame them. When you post like you personally know what God wants or what Jesus thinks (same thing I guess since Jesus=God) I can't help but have a sarcastic tone, because to me you sound pompous. Sure, but as you said before "I do, what I do."

Pompous? For saying what the Bible says? Folks, I simply report what the Bible says just as a news anchor reports the six o'clocik news. What I say is invariably based on the Bible. I don't understand what the controversy is. Saying what the Bible says seems problematic for some of you.

Originally posted by Robtard
Confucius?

I don't know, I was not quoting anyone internally.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Pompous? For saying what the Bible says? Folks, I simply report what the Bible says just as a news anchor reports the six o'clocik news. What I say is invariably based on the Bible. I don't understand what the controversy is. Saying what the Bible says seems problematic for some of you.


Yes, pompous in that you interpretation of something that can be interpreted many different ways is the only correct way of thinking.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, pompous in that you interpretation of something that can be interpreted many different ways is the only correct way of thinking.

There is only two interpretations of Scripture: a correct one and an incorrect one.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There is only two interpretations of Scripture: a correct one and an incorrect one.

That is assuming that there is a correct interpretation.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There is only two interpretations of Scripture: a correct one and an incorrect one.

Who has the final say on which one is correct considering the many branches and offshoots of Christianity with their own unique views and every other religion in the world and their branches and offshoots?

Originally posted by Robtard
Who has the final say on which one is correct considering the many branches and offshoots of Christianity with their own unique views and every other religion in the world and their branches and offshoots?

There will never be unanimity among all faiths concerning correct interpretation of Scripture in this life. We must simply strive to disagree agreeably and move on. So long as there is consensus about Bible essentials such as the deity and sinlessness of Jesus Christ, the divine inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible, and the truth that salvation from sin is provided for in Jesus Christ and Him alone, I am good to go. There are some things in the Bible that are not worth fussing over though because they don't adversly affect one's salvation except, of course renouncing Jesus Christ.