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Darkseid stumbles into the MU by meddling with something he shouldn't be meddling with and starts killing shit left and right. The first ones on the scene are the Infinity Watch with everyone else needing a week to catch up. Can Warlock and company take Seid or does Seid's newly acquired every low showing being retconned into an avatar ability give the Watch Alpha Flight-in-New-Avengers-status?


Btw the Watch's roster is like this


Adam Warlock (w/ Soul Gem)
Moondragon (w/ Mind Gem)
Gamora (current with Time Gem)
Drax the Destroyer (w/ power gem and current intelligence and classic invulnerability)
Thanos (w/ Space Gem because giving him the reality gem would probably make this a one-sided curbstomp)

Thanos by speedblitz

none of these guys know how to use the gems at there fullest potential even with the power gem thanos smacks drax around, and gomora can controll a whole planet, so what darkseid did the same thing, she is also unable to use the full power of the soul gem isnt she due to warlock messing with it before giving it out, does darkseid even have a soul, whoever steals his soul if he has one is gonna be in for a major headache, the OE can traverse time, and darkseid himself can traverse time, im not saying its the same thing but of course none of these guys can use the gems to the potential they have when all together.

WTH are you talking about? Both Adam Warlock and Thanos are adept masters at using it.

No offense mider, but i need to advice on using full stops on the sentences in the future. It's hard to get a message out there when the message is convulted as hell.

Thanos understands better than anyone the potential of the gems, giving him any of them is overkill.

Any one of them could beat Darksied alone.

Where on earth did you get the idea he could stand up to even one of the infinity gems?

Originally posted by David_Richards
Any one of them could beat Darksied alone.

Where on earth did you get the idea he could stand up to even one of the infinity gems?

Um no just no. The infinity Gems multiply in power when they come together. They are just but a sliver of thier power in the hands of each of them. Darksied can beat any of them except thanos with his reality Gem. If he doesn't have that, he looses too. Darksied Omega Effect can do every thing that they can. If theyfought as a team, the only ones who would last would be Thanos and Warlock. And I can see the two of them stale mating DS.

spite thread.
DS is curb stomped.

lol at the ones who think he has a shot against the whole IF.

Drax also put down Champion with one shot. Drax's problem is that He is not focsed But its very possible that in a fight Drax could beat the snot out of Darkseid

Originally posted by golem370
Drax also put down Champion with one shot. Drax's problem is that He is not focsed But its very possible that in a fight Drax could beat the snot out of Darkseid

If not for the fact that Drax could be erased in oh about half a second. Or maybe turned into a child.

When he has the Power Gem he is pretty much Indestructible and I said in a fight.

Originally posted by golem370
When he has the Power Gem he is pretty much Indestructible and I said in a fight. Him being indestructible wont' stop him from being turned into an indestructible infant. Or being teleported to the far end of nothing. Or being teleported 50,000 years into the past where no one would know where he was.

Moondragon is inconsequential as Darksied's Telepathy rivals hers and he doesn't even need a gem to do what she can. Her body is frail. Her and Gamora Bite the dust first. Then Darksied has to fight the big guns, Warlock, Thanos and Drax. Drax is turned into a new born and coughs up the Power gem. Darksied grabs it. He can't use it cuz it's powers dont' work for DCU beings. But he does keep it from Thanos. Thanos and Warlock Stalemate Darksied into Eternity.

Warlock- Steals his soul
Moondragon- Shuts his mind down
Gamora- Takes him to the end of time where he dies (Like Waverider did to Doomsday)

Drax- Blows a hole right through him
Thanos- Teleports him into the middle of a sun.

In a fight If Drax was focsed he would destroy Darkseid

Thing is, this match could very well be over in a fraction of a second without Thanos or Warlock's involvement. Reason is, Gamora can simply stop time, whip up her godslayer and do Darkseid in.

Or Darksied coudl create 100 avatars of himself and even the battle up quite nicely.

LOL it would do nothing, Moondragon tells warlock whihc one is the real one he steals him soul darkseid dies. of Gamora just freezes time and kills all of them one by one.

Originally posted by David_Richards
LOL it would do nothing, Moondragon tells warlock whihc one is the real one he steals him soul darkseid dies. of Gamora just freezes time and kills all of them one by one.

Has Darksied ever been frozen in time? every single time that time is threatened in DC, he's simply beyong it. He has shown up at time when all of time was wiped out or in disarray. I doubt he can be frozen in time. And Does Darksied have a soul? has that ever been shown to be the case? or is he just the representation of what he is?

Theyve never said he doesnt have a soul, so we can assume he does.

The time gem is beyond any other time effect it is the ultimate complete and total control of time.

Thats what the gems are, they are the ultimate expressions of control over the universe. Only the living tribunal can overridde them.

I think you think alittle to highly of Darkseid.

Originally posted by David_Richards
Theyve never said he doesnt have a soul, so we can assume he does.

The time gem is beyond any other time effect it is the ultimate complete and total control of time.

Thats what the gems are, they are the ultimate expressions of control over the universe. Only the living tribunal can overridde them.

I think you think alittle to highly of Darkseid.

NO. Most people just think to lowly of Darksied. So what your saying is the gems trump anything in DC. that is what ur saying. Becuz there are powers in DC who have had total and complete control over reality and Time. and yet Darksied remains. And Darksied doesn't have a soul. In my trading card series, Neron Talks about Darksied and how he would have his soul if he had one to take. And the Gems are not ultimate unless they are linked together. it's only when they are linked that they have complete mastery. The power gems infinitely powers all the others to thier universal lvls. The reality gems binds them all. They can't be used infinititly while seperated. They are but a sliver of thier power when not combined.

Darkseid has had his ass handed to him by many forces in the DCu who do not have infinate powers.

I didnt say they trump everything in the DCU, Darkseid is not the sumpreme power in the DCU.

Waverider froze time and it effected Darkseid, im sure Gamora can do it as well.

Originally posted by David_Richards
Darkseid has had his ass handed to him by many forces in the DCu who do not have infinate powers.

I didnt say they trump everything in the DCU, Darkseid is not the sumpreme power in the DCU.

Waverider froze time and it effected Darkseid, im sure Gamora can do it as well.
Wave Rider is like the Silver Surfer WITh time powers addded. Gamora doesn't even know how to use the time gem. Surely iF Darksied was created to be equal to galactus, the IW is not going to be able to take him. Especially Gamora and MOondragon. They are fodder. While Drax who could be a big gun, doesn't have anyway of shielding himself from the OE.

Who ever said Darkseid was equal to Galactus? And Gamora knows how to use the time gem very well. have you read the infinity watch series?

Darksied is not immune to the Infinity Gems, sorry to burst your bubble

Darkseid is a god, but the gems have effects beings inthe DCU much more powerfull then gods.

Originally posted by David_Richards
Who ever said Darkseid was equal to Galactus? And Gamora knows how to use the time gem very well. have you read the infinity watch series?

Darksied is not immune to the Infinity Gems, sorry to burst your bubble

Darkseid is a god, but the gems have effects beings inthe DCU much more powerfull then gods.

UM no. The Gems themselves do not work ON or For beings in the DCU. Darksied can astral project himself out of the source wall. He won't be getting stopped by time manipulation. And jack Kirby the creator of Galactus and Darksied wrote them to be equals in power.

id liek to see proof that he did.

And if your putting the fight in the DCU then its a spite thread. If it in the MU hes toast.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Wave Rider is like the Silver Surfer WITh time powers addded. Gamora doesn't even know how to use the time gem. Surely iF Darksied was created to be equal to galactus, the IW is not going to be able to take him. Especially Gamora and MOondragon. They are fodder. While Drax who could be a big gun, doesn't have anyway of shielding himself from the OE.

Actually, silver surfer do possess time manipulation powers and has used it on a global scale.

Originally posted by David_Richards
id liek to see proof that he did.

And if your putting the fight in the DCU then its a spite thread. If it in the MU hes toast.


The Gems themselves won't work on Darksied. They can boost the powers inherent to the users. but not to thier infinite lvls. And you want to see proof of what?

In what book or comic did Kirby say that? I want proof.

Originally posted by David_Richards
id liek to see proof that he did.

And if your putting the fight in the DCU then its a spite thread. If it in the MU hes toast.

Jack Kirby was the one who stated that, it is indeed a fact that Darkseid is meant to be equal to Galactus.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
UM no. The Gems themselves do not work ON or For beings in the DCU. Darksied can astral project himself out of the source wall. He won't be getting stopped by time manipulation. And jack Kirby the creator of Galactus and Darksied wrote them to be equals in power.

That rule applies when specified by the thread starter to take place in DCU where the gems do in fact don't work(at least going by JLA/Avengers if it's in continuity).

Darkseid is created equal to Galactus by Kirby. Kirby's Galactus exists no more considering original power level limits and significance have been continually revised by writers.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Actually, silver surfer do possess time manipulation powers and has used it on a global scale.

Darkseid is created equal to Galactus by Kirby. Kirby's Galactus exists no more considering original power level limits and significance have been continually revised by writers.
And considering that both of them have been raised in power over the years by thier companies says something. Galactus when he was created was already a planet buster. Galactus was just written to be part of the trinity. While Darksied is the yin to the yang that is highfather. Galactus wins agaist Darksied, But not in a curb stomp. That is saying someabout Darksied when he could put up a good fight against one of the trinity.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Jack Kirby was the one who stated that, it is indeed a fact that Darkseid is meant to be equal to Galactus.

In what book or comic did he say that?

Im nto just going to take your word for it.

The infinity gems have effected galactus before as well.

Also Darkseid was almost killed by doomsday if supes hadnt used mother box to save his life.

Originally posted by David_Richards
In what book or comic did he say that?

Im nto just going to take your word for it.

Interview with him many many years ago.

For someone who doesn't provide evidence himself, you seem to call a lot of people on things.

Originally posted by David_Richards
The infinity gems have effected galactus before as well.

Also Darkseid was almost killed by doomsday if supes hadnt used mother box to save his life.

No as stated that was an avatar of Darkseid not the real version.

darkseid is very powerful, but putting him against ALL of these characters is way overkill........ the IW wins this 10/10

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Interview with him many many years ago.

For someone who doesn't provide evidence himself, you seem to call a lot of people on things.

What would you liek me to provide evidence of?

and Ill beleive it when you can show me the interview.

If doomsday can kill darkseid then the IW can certianly do it.

Originally posted by David_Richards
What would you liek me to provide evidence of?

and Ill beleive it when you can show me the interview.

If doomsday can kill darkseid then the IW can certianly do it.
You have never heard of the Dark Seid avatars have you?

Originally posted by David_Richards
What would you liek me to provide evidence of?

and Ill beleive it when you can show me the interview.

If doomsday can kill darkseid then the IW can certianly do it.

You spout your opinion without baseing anything off of it. Show why certain characters win.

I'll look for it, probally in the Darkseid respect thread.

First off he didn't even kill the avatar, and it WASN'T the real Darkseid

It was no avatar that Doomsday stomped on, read the comic.

Originally posted by David_Richards
It was no avatar that Doomsday stomped on, read the comic.

I did it was retconned, as revealed later the real Darkseid never lost a battle

Thanos is an even match for Darkseid without a gem. He would dominate Darkseid WITH one(I don't care which). And Warlock might be able to give him a run with a gem(though he probably wouldn't take the majority). So this would be a total curbstomp in the IW's favor.

Also, I believe that Darkseid was stated to be the equivalent of a HUNGRY Galactus. That was also when both characters came out, Galactus's power has increased significantly since then.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I did it was retconned, as revealed later the real Darkseid never lost a battle

I believe it was Darkseid himself who said that, and I'm betting he was just covering his ass.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I believe it was Darkseid himself who said that, and I'm betting he was just covering his ass.

Somewhat, an avatar mentioning Darkseid has never lost and is almost impossible to defeat on the physical plane.

LOL, Supes has beaten Darkseid before without it being an avatar,

In Batman/Superman he kicked his ass.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Somewhat, an avatar mentioning Darkseid has never lost and is almost impossible to defeat on the physical plane.
Yes but he was saying it TO somebody, if he were speaking to himself, or if was stated by the narrator, the statement would carry a little more weight, but Darkseids not really known for being truthful with others now is he?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Or Darksied coudl create 100 avatars of himself and even the battle up quite nicely. Has he ever done this?
Your reaching.

And has he ever even created an avatar on panel?
Yet again, you are reaching.Originally posted by David_Richards
Theyve never said he doesnt have a soul, so we can assume he does.

The time gem is beyond any other time effect it is the ultimate complete and total control of time.

Thats what the gems are, they are the ultimate expressions of control over the universe. Only the living tribunal can overridde them.

I think you think alittle to highly of Darkseid. Gee, you think?

Originally posted by bigbran
Has he ever done this?
Your reaching.

And has he ever even created an avatar on panel?
Yet again, you are reaching. Gee, you think?
He's created other powerful beings on panel though.
Like Stayne, the equal opposite of Takion.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Gems themselves won't work on Darksied. They can boost the powers inherent to the users. but not to thier infinite lvls. And you want to see proof of what? This, isn't even a good answer.
The gems don't WORK IN DC!!!
Considering this is on neutral ground too, Darkseid gets curbstomped, there is no way around that.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but he was saying it TO somebody, if he were speaking to himself, or if was stated by the narrator, the statement would carry a little more weight, but Darkseids not really known for being truthful with others now is he?

Ok good, because there were others talking about the avatars as well.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Thanos is an even match for Darkseid without a gem. He would dominate Darkseid WITH one(I don't care which). And Warlock might be able to give him a run with a gem(though he probably wouldn't take the majority). So this would be a total curbstomp in the IW's favor.

Also, I believe that Darkseid was stated to be the equivalent of a HUNGRY Galactus. That was also when both characters came out, Galactus's power has increased significantly since then. thanos is no match for Ds

Originally posted by Juntai
He's created other powerful beings on panel though.
Like Stayne, the equal opposite of Takion. Was that the question?
Darksied has never shown on panel, EVER, in all of comicdome, to be able to create 100 avatars!!!

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but he was saying it TO somebody, if he were speaking to himself, or if was stated by the narrator, the statement would carry a little more weight, but Darkseids not really known for being truthful with others now is he? It was an avatar saying it about its creator.

Originally posted by bigbran
Was that the question?
Darksied has never shown on panel, EVER, in all of comicdome, to be able to create 100 avatars!!! I was implying that it didn't matter. They don't have to be avatars, he can just create other godlike beings.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
thanos is no match for Ds Not the fanboy Darkseid!
Thanos was created, back when PC Darkseid was around. Sure he would get beat by PC Darky, but, he would be able to fight him.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Ok good, because there were others talking about the avatars as well. Yep, Highfather has also talked of the Avatars.

Originally posted by bigbran
Not the fanboy Darkseid!
Thanos was created, back when PC Darkseid was around. Sure he would get beat by PC Darky, but, he would be able to fight him. Darkseid's feats of personal power pre and post Crisis are greater than Thanos.

Originally posted by Juntai
I was implying that it didn't matter. They don't have to be avatars, he can just create other godlike beings. So he can create a 100 beings, out of thin air?

Originally posted by Juntai
Darkseid's feats of personal power pre and post Crisis are greater than Thanos. No way Thanos is losing to an avatar!
He does get beat by the real Darky though.
And by personal feats, do you mean, using his head to stop Superman's punches?

Originally posted by bigbran
No way Thanos is losing to an avatar!
He does get beat by the real Darky though.
And by personal feats, do you mean, using his head to stop Superman's punches?
the feats belong to avatars

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
the feats belong to avatars So Pc Darksied was just an avatar?

Originally posted by bigbran
So he can create a 100 beings, out of thin air? I never said that.

Originally posted by bigbran
No way Thanos is losing to an avatar!
He does get beat by the real Darky though.
And by personal feats, do you mean, using his head to stop Superman's punches? You think all he's done post Crisis is losing to Superman? I'll have you know that most of the respect thread is post Crisis Darkseid. From the likes of Genesis, TAKION JKFW and ORION and other random appearances.

Originally posted by Juntai
I never said that. But your arguing against me.
Originally posted by Juntai
You think all he's done post Crisis is losing to Superman? I'll have you know that most of the respect thread is post Crisis Darkseid. From the likes of Genesis, TAKION JKFW and ORION and other random appearances. And... I know what they are, and I know, he has lost to more people than that.
The only Darky that impresses me is good old PC.
Sure he has done some good things, but really post crisis Darky(or an avatar.) shouldn't beat Thanos.

Wait you just said post crisis Darkseid would lose to Thanos?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Wait you just said post crisis Darkseid would lose to Thanos? An avatar, yes.

Originally posted by bigbran
But your arguing against me.
And... I know what they are, and I know, he has lost to more people than that.
The only Darky that impresses me is good old PC.
Sure he has done some good things, but really post crisis Darky(or an avatar.) shouldn't beat Thanos. His feats that you know of are probably post Crisis. In fact, most of his feats entirely are all post Crisis, as the original run of New Gods wasn't a very long one.

And no, he hasn't lost to more people than that. He's only lost to Superman and Orion that haven't been retconned as Desaad disguised as his master, or an avatar.

Originally posted by bigbran
An avatar, yes. Post Crisis Darkseids' feats are still above Thanos when consdiering personal power, unless you want to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Ok good, because there were others talking about the avatars as well.

Originally posted by darthgoober

Yeah, I like quoting Mungi too.

....I feel so popular, TAKE THAT MOM!

Originally posted by Juntai
His feats that you know of are probably post Crisis. In fact, most of his feats entirely are all post Crisis, as the original run of New Gods wasn't a very long one.I know his feats. Like I said, the real Darkseid should and will beat Thanos.
But an avatar, is going to get beat.

Originally posted by Juntai
And no, he hasn't lost to more people than that. He's only lost to Superman and Orion that haven't been retconned as Desaad disguised as his master, or an avatar. Doomsday?

Originally posted by Juntai
Post Crisis Darkseids' feats are still above Thanos when consdiering personal power, unless you want to prove otherwise. Kicking the shit out of Surfer? Fighting Tyrant. Using his body against Odin( and taking severe punishment, and getting up), compared to using his skelaton as a toothpick for Superman.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Ok good, because there were others talking about the avatars as well.
Yes but has anyone else ever talked about the fact that ALL Darkseid's defeats were avatars? I'm not denying his ability to create avatars, I'm just pointing out that given the circumstances. it's kinda dumb to take the statement at face value.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was an avatar saying it about its creator.
Yes, and I'm sure that the avatar said just what Darkseid would have said.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but has anyone else ever talked about the fact that ALL Darkseid's defeats were avatars? I'm not denying his ability to create avatars, I'm just pointing out that given the circumstances. it's kinda dumb to take the statement at face value.

Yes, and I'm sure that the avatar said just what Darkseid would have said.

As mentioned Highfather made comments about the avatars as well in New Gods.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
As mentioned Highfather made comments about the avatars as well in New Gods.
Yes but did he actually say that Darkseid had NEVER been beaten?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but did he actually say that Darkseid had NEVER been beaten?

I'll have to pull out the issue, but yeah it was something a long the lines of that.

What I'm not understanding is how some people managed to confuse what U this was taking place in when it says clearly in the first paragraph that Darkseid is just killing shit left and right in the Marvel Universe?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I'll have to pull out the issue, but yeah it was something a long the lines of that.
Cool. I'll be waiting. I admit that it's possible, but the only proof anyone has provided was scans of Darkseid himself saying it(well an avatar, but it's the same thing), and I don't take things that villains say about themselves very seriously.

Juntai which issue is the comment with Highfather, I thought it was New Gods #16, but now I forget what issue it was.

OMG people have no FREAKING logic what so EVER. Darksied has been a thorn in the Side of High Father for EVER. Do you really thingk that if superman could beat Darksied that they wouldn't just boomtube superman to Apok and have him Defeat darksied? Darksied is not Beaten. WHy do you guys think that NEw Genesis has been in war with them I don't know like since FOREVER!!! He is undefeatable in personal combat. Hell just look at his freaking avatars. Each one can put up a fight against beings like Superman and Doomsday. HEll if Darksied can control 3 million daxamites, he surely can make 100 avatars of himself to completely whoop the IW asses. And moondragon won't be doing anything but shielding her teamates with all her might against Darksied mind controlling them.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OMG people have no FREAKING logic what so EVER. Like this post? Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Darksied has been a thorn in the Side of High Father for EVER.And...
oh, your not going to back it up with some of your abstract claims?
Loki's been a thorn in Thor's back forever. He still isn't beating Thor.
Before you go off the handle though. We know Darky can beat Highfather, but a thorn in someone's side, doesn't mean anything.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Do you really thingk that if superman could beat Darksied that they wouldn't just boomtube superman to Apok and have him Defeat darksied? I thought the real Darkseid was never shown?(according to you)
And why don't they just do that?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Darksied is not Beaten. WHy do you guys think that NEw Genesis has been in war with them I don't know like since FOREVER!!! And this equates in him being unbeatable? Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He is undefeatable in personal combat. We know this, how?Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Hell just look at his freaking avatars. Each one can put up a fight against beings like Superman and Doomsday. Didn't Doomsday put him out, in 3 punches? And doesn't Supes just snap him in half when they go to the sun? Argue with me hear, but you brought it up.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
HEll if Darksied can control 3 million daxamites, he surely can make 100 avatars of himself to completely whoop the IW asses. What the hell does this have to do with him creating Avatars?
I guess Martian Manhunter can create 100's of beings based on your logic?Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And moondragon won't be doing anything but shielding her teamates with all her might against Darksied mind controlling them. Wait, what?
Sure Moondragon can't beat him, but what about the others, that are just going to be standing there in your opinion?
AW" You think we should help her?"
Thanos" nah!"
Drax" me looky like Kratos now."


Originally posted by bigbran
AW:" You think we should help her?"
Thanos:" nah!"
Drax:" me looky like Kratos now." ^^
That's based on what they are going to be doing in your opinion.

These are Darksied's power fromt he official DC site

Height: 7'6"
Weight: 515 lbs
Eyes: Red
Hair:




Powers
Darkseid is an incredibly powerful being, possessing near godlike abilities. Essentially the only limit to Darkseid's abilities is his willpower. For example, he is capable of moving entire solar systems by force of will alone, but while doing so he would not have the focus to perform other acts.

Known Powers:

Omega Effect: a form of energy that he fires from his eyes. This effect is not only a relentless attack, but it is capable of teleporting the target to any location Darkseid chooses and recall them later or erase the target from the universe and similarly reform them. Darkseid has pinpoint control over his Omega Beams, and his unerring aim allows it to travel in straight lines or bend, twist or curve around corners. The Effect can travel across time and pass through different universes, and can pass through nearly any known barrier.

In the three part Hunter/Prey storyline, he claimed that no being had yet withstood the full force of the Omega Beam, but Doomsday nonetheless survived the attack.

Superhuman Strength

Superhuman Stamina

Invulnerability

Superhuman Intelligence

Immortality

Telepathy

Mind Control: ability to control the minds of others by sheer force of will. His ability to use this power is so great that he can dominate millions of beings all at once.

Telekinesis

Matter Transmutation: ability to transmute matter

Molecular Dispersion: He is also able to dissipate and disperse the molecules of an object or organism, effectively erasing them from existence.

Avatar Creation: able to generate mental avatars

Psionic Possession: psychic abilities to possess an individual and negate any superhuman abilities they may have.

Energy Manipulation: can also mentally control most known forms of energy, allowing him to erect protective force fields and project withering energy bolts.

Teleportation

As an almost god-like being, Darkseid has several powers that surpass most other beings in the known universe.

Life Creation: He can create life and matter from nothing, as he did when he created the being known as Strayne,

Time Travel: can travel in time as easily as any New God.

Dimensional Teleportation: He can traverse different dimensions.

De-evolution: devolve living organisms.


Known Abilities: His genius surpasses that of most other known beings in the universe. He is a master planner and strategist and his armies are nearly unbeatable under his leadership.

Strength Level:

Catch this from the official site. It was batmite in the joker the whole time and not myx's power and Batmite is no where near as powerful as mxy. and look what batmite did to the universe?

Darkseid is a character whose personality can vaguely be described as evil incarnate. Darkseid is not merely content to control but seeks to dominate those individuals under him into totally obedient and morally corrupt caricatures of individuals. Apokolips is a world that resembles Hell because of his need to be worshipped as a god and the need to nurture the most horrible aspects of the human spirit. On Apokolips, his subjects are raised in a personality cult, to venerate him, to sacrifice themselves gladly in his name.

Darkseid practices great emotional restraint, always maintaining a calm and disciplined composure despite the furious rage that often boils within him (his son, Orion, has inherited this rage but cannot control it as well as his father, relying on his Mother Box to keep his emotions in check). Darkseid seems to possess a twisted form of honor but this code is 'flexible' depending on his mood. It seems he desires to be thought of as an honorable being but never lets this stand in the way of his gaining power or revenge. He especially takes delight in seeing the mighty brought low whether in strength or moral conviction. Darkseid's primary weakness may be his obsession to get even with people who have gotten the better of him, especially Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, the New Gods, and now possibly The Joker. During the latest Batman/Superman comic arc (Issue #25 With A Vengeance), Joker attempted to control Darkseid when the clown prince of crime gained powers similar to Mister Mxyzptlk. It was later revealed that Bat-Mite was inside Joker the whole time. (Bat-Mite literally crawled out of his mouth.) Darkseid actually attempted to vaporize The Joker with his Omega Beam at one point, but seemed to miss on purpose.


Darkseid's agenda

What site are you looking at?

Originally posted by Juntai
What site are you looking at?

http://www.dcdatabaseproject.com/wiki/index.php/Darkseid


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkseid

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
These are Darksied's power fromt he official DC site

Height: 7'6"
Weight: 515 lbs
Eyes: Red
Hair:




Powers
Darkseid is an incredibly powerful being, possessing near godlike abilities. Essentially the only limit to Darkseid's abilities is his willpower. For example, he is capable of moving entire solar systems by force of will alone, but while doing so he would not have the focus to perform other acts.

Known Powers:

Omega Effect: a form of energy that he fires from his eyes. This effect is not only a relentless attack, but it is capable of teleporting the target to any location Darkseid chooses and recall them later or erase the target from the universe and similarly reform them. Darkseid has pinpoint control over his Omega Beams, and his unerring aim allows it to travel in straight lines or bend, twist or curve around corners. The Effect can travel across time and pass through different universes, and can pass through nearly any known barrier.

In the three part Hunter/Prey storyline, he claimed that no being had yet withstood the full force of the Omega Beam, but Doomsday nonetheless survived the attack.

Superhuman Strength

Superhuman Stamina

Invulnerability

Superhuman Intelligence

Immortality

Telepathy

Mind Control: ability to control the minds of others by sheer force of will. His ability to use this power is so great that he can dominate millions of beings all at once.

Telekinesis

Matter Transmutation: ability to transmute matter

Molecular Dispersion: He is also able to dissipate and disperse the molecules of an object or organism, effectively erasing them from existence.

Avatar Creation: able to generate mental avatars

Psionic Possession: psychic abilities to possess an individual and negate any superhuman abilities they may have.

Energy Manipulation: can also mentally control most known forms of energy, allowing him to erect protective force fields and project withering energy bolts.

Teleportation

As an almost god-like being, Darkseid has several powers that surpass most other beings in the known universe.

Life Creation: He can create life and matter from nothing, as he did when he created the being known as Strayne,

Time Travel: can travel in time as easily as any New God.

Dimensional Teleportation: He can traverse different dimensions.

De-evolution: devolve living organisms.


Known Abilities: His genius surpasses that of most other known beings in the universe. He is a master planner and strategist and his armies are nearly unbeatable under his leadership.

Strength Level: Now allow me to show you how good bio's are in a debate.

Powers
Apocalypse's full extent of powers remain to be revealed, especially to the extent of which powers have since been augmented by alien technology. Apocalypse claims to have control of his body on the molecular level-- allowing him to shape change and elongate with virtually unlimited range, to increase density and allow his body to mimic metals and armors, to teleport, and to be virtually immune to the effects of age. Apocalypse can also increase his strength to levels surpassing that of the Hulk, grow to giant sizes, and gain the power of flight, sometimes through turning his arms into wings or jets. Apocalypse can also transform himself into a variety of human disguises.
He has exhibited energy absorbing and projecting abilities in the past. Apocalypse has been termed an "External," due to his mutant ability of immortality. Briefly, Apocalypse has shown potential to be a powerful psionic.

It has further been hinted that Apocalypse's body is ravaged by a techno-organic disease. Many of his regenerated bodies must use an exoskeleton body armor to prevent his energies from consuming him. Apocalypse can apparently merge/switch host bodies to continually revive his self-consuming body.

Abilities
Mastery of alien technology, specifically in regards to genetics and biochemistry
Weapons
None
Paraphernalia
Celestial technology, especially its "resurrection chambers" that strengthen and revive his powers. Apocalypse uses the technology for his own applications, as well, altering mutants such as Exodus and his Horsemen. He once employed the spaceship now known as Prosh.


This is all from the official Marvel site.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Apocalypse_%28En_Sabah_Nur%29

Originally posted by bigbran
Now allow me to show you how good bio's are in a debate.

Powers
Apocalypse's full extent of powers remain to be revealed, especially to the extent of which powers have since been augmented by alien technology. Apocalypse claims to have control of his body on the molecular level-- allowing him to shape change and elongate with virtually unlimited range, to increase density and allow his body to mimic metals and armors, to teleport, and to be virtually immune to the effects of age. Apocalypse can also increase his strength to levels surpassing that of the Hulk, grow to giant sizes, and gain the power of flight, sometimes through turning his arms into wings or jets. Apocalypse can also transform himself into a variety of human disguises.
He has exhibited energy absorbing and projecting abilities in the past. Apocalypse has been termed an "External," due to his mutant ability of immortality. Briefly, Apocalypse has shown potential to be a powerful psionic.

It has further been hinted that Apocalypse's body is ravaged by a techno-organic disease. Many of his regenerated bodies must use an exoskeleton body armor to prevent his energies from consuming him. Apocalypse can apparently merge/switch host bodies to continually revive his self-consuming body.

Abilities
Mastery of alien technology, specifically in regards to genetics and biochemistry
Weapons
None
Paraphernalia
Celestial technology, especially its "resurrection chambers" that strengthen and revive his powers. Apocalypse uses the technology for his own applications, as well, altering mutants such as Exodus and his Horsemen. He once employed the spaceship now known as Prosh.


This is all from the official Marvel site.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Apocalypse_%28En_Sabah_Nur%29

And what does this have to do with anything? I was just trying to show all of the powers that Darksied has that people on these boards never even consider.

Both Wiki and Marvel can be edited by anyone with an account.

Originally posted by Inhuman
spite thread.
DS is curb stomped.

lol at the ones who think he has a shot against the whole IF.

Originally posted by Skeets
Both Wiki and Marvel can be edited by anyone with an account.


But everything in the Site has happened in the comics.

Originally posted by Skeets
Both Wiki and Marvel can be edited by anyone with an account. That was my next point.Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And what does this have to do with anything? I was just trying to show all of the powers that Darksied has that people on these boards never even consider. And I was trying to show off the powers, that Apoc has never shown.

You don't get it, do you?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But everything in the Site has happened in the comics.
The person who wrote the entry in the bio could of misinterpret the on panel event.The writer can also be a huge Fanboy for all we know.

Which of those powers in that bio has Apoc never shown?

Wait.... do people actually think Darkseid has a chance in this fight?


LOL

Wow the more sites I read the more interesting it becomes. Batmite is now back in continuity. World's Funnest is being considered to be an in continuity book. Thus making Batmite and Mxy two of the most powerful beings ever in comics. I wonder what is DC doing? A weaker JLA and reality writing beings? Marvelitis? And Marvel giving every body and thier mother these uber powers. DC ITIS?

Originally posted by Validus
Which of those powers in that bio has Apoc never shown? The stronger than Hulk part, the complete control of his body on a molecular level.
In fact, I remeber people using Apoc's bio's for there arguments.

Originally posted by Validus
Which of those powers in that bio has Apoc never shown?

I"ve seen Apoc use all of those powers. Hell My first Xmen Comic was xcutioners song story line. The cover had apoc on it whooping the xmen's asses. He pretty much used those powers in that book alone.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Wow the more sites I read the more interesting it becomes. Batmite is now back in continuity. World's Funnest is being considered to be an in continuity book. Thus making Batmite and Mxy two of the most powerful beings ever in comics. I wonder what is DC doing? A weaker JLA and reality writing beings? Marvelitis? And Marvel giving every body and thier mother these uber powers. DC ITIS?
Boo!!! shut up,all you do is complain.I don't think this forum is for you really.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Wow the more sites I read the more interesting it becomes. Batmite is now back in continuity. World's Funnest is being considered to be an in continuity book. Thus making Batmite and Mxy two of the most powerful beings ever in comics. I wonder what is DC doing? A weaker JLA and reality writing beings? Marvelitis? And Marvel giving every body and thier mother these uber powers. DC ITIS? So.. are you reading Wiki?

Originally posted by bigbran
The stronger than Hulk part, the complete control of his body on a molecular level.
In fact, I remeber people using Apoc's bio's for there arguments.
I dunno about the molecular control but I'm positive the stronger than Hulk part comes from the time Apoc choked out Hulk and made him a horseman.

Originally posted by bigbran
The stronger than Hulk part, the complete control of his body on a molecular level.
In fact, I remeber people using Apoc's bio's for there arguments.


I seem to remember Apoc Putting the hulk in a choke hold while he was making hulk his war avatar. So he prolly can amp himself up there. and Molecular lvl just means he can shape change. He even explained in the bio what extent the shape changing has occured. I fail to see where this bio is wrong.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I"ve seen Apoc use all of those powers. Hell My first Xmen Comic was xcutioners song story line. The cover had apoc on it whooping the xmen's asses. He pretty much used those powers in that book alone. The cover? Originally posted by Skeets
Boo!!! shut up,all you do is complain.I don't think this forum is for you really. Biggest ownage, since Val's, "you are" statement!!Originally posted by Validus
I dunno about the molecular control but I'm positive the stronger than Hulk part comes from the time Apoc choked out Hulk and made him a horseman. Choked out? That makes him stronger?
Don't get me wrong, I do think Apoc is or should be stronger than the Hulk, but the fact, is, he has never shown it.

Originally posted by bigbran
So.. are you reading Wiki?

I"m reading wiki, the official DC site, and many many fan sites. I"m looking at scans and all that. I want to make sure that the stuff I remember reading in my comics is correct. And I'm not about to dig thru thousands of comics to argue on the forum, so i'm doing some I net research.

Originally posted by bigbran
Choked out? That makes him stronger?

Well I think the average person reading that comic would certainly think so. That's of course if he physically choked him out. I don't know. Never seen it myself.

Originally posted by Skeets
Boo!!! shut up,all you do is complain.I don't think this forum is for you really.


And since when has what you think about me mattered? Can you give me a date so I can write it down? Oh yeah. what you think is or isn't for me don't mean jack. I dont think you should waste your time thinking about what is for me. Thanks for your concern tho. And from the looks of the threads, others started to realize that many of the threads were in fact biased. Get lost chump.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So he prolly can amp himself up there. Probably, eh?( that's right I used it!) Has he ever shown it. Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and Molecular lvl just means he can shape change. He even explained in the bio what extent the shape changing has occured. I fail to see where this bio is wrong. So he can just turn his body into Kryptonite, and beat Superman?

Originally posted by bigbran
Probably, eh?( that's right I used it!) Has he ever shown it. So he can just turn his body into Kryptonite, and beat Superman?


Exactly the site explains in detail to what extent the control he has over his molecules. that was not one of the uses listed. It explains in full detail what he has done on panel with the use of his molecular control.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And since when has what you think about me mattered? Can you give me a date so I can write it down? Oh yeah. what you think is or isn't for me don't mean jack. I dont think you should waste your time thinking about what is for me. Thanks for your concern tho. And from the looks of the threads, others started to realize that many of the threads were in fact biased. Get lost chump.
Is that more complaning?more Whining?
When you're getting your ass handed to you in a debate you result too the same tactic,calling others fanboys or Marvel bias....Bah!!

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Exactly the site explains in detail to what extent the control he has over his molecules. that was not one of the uses listed. It explains in full detail what he has done on panel with the use of his molecular control. Fine then. You use information from Wiki, then I will too.

Apocalypse is one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel universe, possessing a multitude of superhuman abilities, including almost unsurpassed strength, invulnerability and the ability to both shift and alter his mass and form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_%28comics%29


And this is why bio's aren't to be used as main evidence.

Originally posted by Skeets
Is that more complaning?more Whining?
When you're getting your ass handed to you in a debate you result too the same tactic,calling others fanboys or Marvel bias....Bah!!

Look, you came in the thread starting shit. I didn't. And I dont see where i'm getting my ass handed to me. All i'm doing is passing on info about the character. To be honest, no one on here who argues for marvel characters ALL of the FREAKING TIME can ever hand my ass to me. cuz they down play all DC's characters ALL of the time to make thier look better. Many of my arguments that were seemingly shot down, i have found to be true and that I won. but who the hell has time to go and drudge up all those old threads just to impress a bunch of cybers who I dont' know. And besides, no matter what is said or what logic is used, if someone likes marvel, no matter of debate is going to change thier minds. So no, I'm never getting my ass handed to me in debate. All they do is call me fan boy and post more pics about thier characters without EVER posting any scans of the characters that they are aguing against.

Originally posted by bigbran
Fine then. You use information from Wiki, then I will too.

Apocalypse is one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel universe, possessing a multitude of superhuman abilities, including almost unsurpassed strength, invulnerability and the ability to both shift and alter his mass and form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_%28comics%29


And this is why bio's aren't to be used as main evidence.

Really if you want to get technical, all the info from wiki is gleened str8 fromt he official dc site. all you gotta do is look in the bio section where it tells you where they get thier info. But like I said, Are you trying to down play Darksied? Im trying to get at your point? IT's not like every thing they mentioned hasn't been talked about in these forums or shown in his respect thread.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Look, you came in the thread starting shit. I didn't. And I dont see where i'm getting my ass handed to me. All i'm doing is passing on info about the character. To be honest, no one on here who argues for marvel characters ALL of the FREAKING TIME can ever hand my ass to me. cuz they down play all DC's characters ALL of the time to make thier look better. Many of my arguments that were seemingly shot down, i have found to be true and that I won. but who the hell has time to go and drudge up all those old threads just to impress a bunch of cybers who I dont' know. And besides, no matter what is said or what logic is used, if someone likes marvel, no matter of debate is going to change thier minds. So no, I'm never getting my ass handed to me in debate. All they do is call me fan boy and post more pics about thier characters without EVER posting any scans of the characters that they are aguing against.
I stopped at reading at "Look".
look how mad you got writing a whole paragraph because of me.....

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Look, you came in the thread starting shit. I didn't. And I dont see where i'm getting my ass handed to me. All i'm doing is passing on info about the character. To be honest, no one on here who argues for marvel characters ALL of the FREAKING TIME can ever hand my ass to me. cuz they down play all DC's characters ALL of the time to make thier look better. Many of my arguments that were seemingly shot down, i have found to be true and that I won. but who the hell has time to go and drudge up all those old threads just to impress a bunch of cybers who I dont' know. And besides, no matter what is said or what logic is used, if someone likes marvel, no matter of debate is going to change thier minds. So no, I'm never getting my ass handed to me in debate. All they do is call me fan boy and post more pics about thier characters without EVER posting any scans of the characters that they are aguing against. So that was directed at me?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Really if you want to get technical, all the info from wiki is gleened str8 fromt he official dc site. all you gotta do is look in the bio section where it tells you where they get thier info. But like I said, Are you trying to down play Darksied? Im trying to get at your point? IT's not like every thing they mentioned hasn't been talked about in these forums or shown in his respect thread. What? I can go and change anything I want, right now on Wiki, I bet you do.
That's why Wiki is not a reliable source.
Plus, your also saying, that the stuff I said is right, so...ya.
Your just mad because I have shot down your bio idea.

Originally posted by bigbran
What? I can go and change anything I want, right now on Wiki, I bet you do.
That's why Wiki is not a reliable source.
Plus, your also saying, that the stuff I said is right, so...ya.
Your just mad because I have shot down your bio idea.

It doesn't matter, I have looked at Draco's respect thread. it confirms every single thing that the wiki site says. with scans. try reading it.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But like I said, Are you trying to down play Darksied?
No I'm not, I'm downplaying you!
Your using a bio, after I just shot down your post, with no explanation, as to why you sent it.
Plus, I am saying that bio's aren't always right.(or even half right)
Even if that bio is right, that fact that you rsorted to it, for your new point, is just.....
Pull out proof instead of pulling out a bio.

Darkseid mentioned in this fight his never lost a battle..
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3102/darkseidsg1.th.jpg
So this one wasnt the retconned one? just wanna know what people think of it.. This from SUPERMAN vs Darkseid apokolips now..

Originally posted by bigbran
No I'm not, I'm downplaying you!
Your using a bio, after I just shot down your post, with no explanation, as to why you sent it.
Plus, I am saying that bio's aren't always right.(or even half right)
Even if that bio is right, that fact that you rsorted to it, for your new point, is just.....
Pull out proof instead of pulling out a bio.

It's all in the respec thread. every use of the powers written. with links to the scans. Darksied far outclasses anything Thanos has ever done or any of the infinity watch for that matter.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's all in the respec thread. every use of the powers written. with links to the scans. Darksied far outclasses anything Thanos has ever done or any of the infinity watch for that matter. I've seen it. I have nothing against Darkseid, but I do have a problem with how your portraying him, and basically every DC character.
PC Supes(and all PC Kryptonians), Highfather, Darkseid, Mordru, you called all these characters Abstarcts, and yet you have the nerve to call people "Marvellites"?
And you defend yourself as not a fanboy?

Plus, if by far outclassing Thanos, do you mean, getting his arms, nearly ripped off by Supes by standing in front of the sun? Or getting his eyes, so swollen by Supes, that he can't see, or fire the OE?
Or getting the worst beating of his life in 3 punches by Doomsday?

Originally posted by bigbran
I've seen it. I have nothing against Darkseid, but I do have a problem with how your portraying him, and basically every DC character.
PC Supes(and all PC Kryptonians), Highfather, Darkseid, Mordun, you called all these characters Abstarcts, and yet you have the nerve to call people "Marvellites"?
And you defend yourself as not a fanboy?

Plus, if by far outclassing Thanos, do you mean, getting his arms, nearly ripped off by Supes by standing in front of the sun? Or getting his eyes, so swollen by Supes, that he can't see, or fire the OE?
Or getting the worst beating of his life in 3 punches by Doomsday?

NO I mean like Moving the galaxy, switching Apocolypse with Daxam, Raising the Dead, Dissolving beings superman class with a touch, mind controlling millions of beings, blah blah blah. That is what i'm talking about. And certainly you dont' think that Thanos could beat Doomsday or Superman( if Superman was somehow protected from the full effect of thanos's cosmic powers do you? )

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO I mean like Moving the galaxy, switching Apocolypse with Daxam, Raising the Dead, Dissolving beings superman class with a touch, mind controlling millions of beings, blah blah blah. That is what i'm talking about. And certainly you dont' think that Thanos could beat Doomsday or Superman( if Superman was somehow protected from the full effect of thanos's cosmic powers do you? ) Do you read what you want to, and ignore feats?
You haven't even tried to prove me wrong, but yet, you ignored my top posts, and basically ignored my examples.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And certainly you dont' think that Thanos could beat Doomsday or Superman( if Superman was somehow protected from the full effect of thanos's cosmic powers do you? ) Yes I do, but when I'm arguing against you, Doomsday will be turn into an abstract, representing invincibilty or something.

Originally posted by bigbran
Do you read what you want to, and ignore feats?
You haven't even tried to prove me wrong, but yet, you ignored my top posts, and basically ignored my examples.

I"m not trying to. All his defeats were retconned as avatars. No need in going over that dead horse again. And you certainly didn't prove me wrong. Thanos has never shown reality manipulation like DS did in The great darkness saga. he has never switched around celestial bodies with his mind. when has he ever controlled 3 million beings with his mind? Prove me wrong. All I said was thanos never has the feats that ds had. you think you proved me wrong by bringing up a bad showing of a DS avatar? Try again buddy.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I"m not trying to. All his defeats were retconned as avatars. No need in going over that dead horse again. And you certainly didn't prove me wrong. Thanos has never shown reality manipulation like DS did in The great darkness saga. he has never switched around celestial bodies with his mind. when has he ever controlled 3 million beings with his mind? Prove me wrong. All I said was thanos never has the feats that ds had. you think you proved me wrong by bringing up a bad showing of a DS avatar? Try again buddy. No Thanos doesn't have those feats, I think only the person who actually did it has those feats!

Has Darkseid ever beaten someone popular?(besides Supes, a couple times.)
But he can beat all those supposed Superman levels, but he can't beat one of them?

Originally posted by bigbran
No Thanos doesn't have those feats, I think only the person who actually did it has those feats!

Has Darkseid ever beaten someone popular?(besides Supes, a couple times.)
But he can beat all those supposed Superman levels, but he can't beat one of them?

DS does have feats, any feats his avatars do can be counted as DS feats since the AVatars are projections of fractions of himself which is still himself but fractions, if a fraction of himself can do such and such feat do you think DS in his full self cannot do the same feat and more?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I"m not trying to.That's all you do is ignore posts, just to answer one question. Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
All his defeats were retconned as avatars. Ah, the famous line, that is used in every Darkseid thread.
IW 10/10

You think Darkseid's an abstract, so whats the point in arguing with you?

Originally posted by bigbran
That's all you do is ignore posts, just to answer one question. Ah, the famous line, that is used in every Darkseid thread.
IW 10/10

You think Darkseid's an abstract, so whats the point in arguing with you?

Do you agree or disagree that what has been shown of the newgods in their full form are abstract level?

Originally posted by Jesse7
Do you agree or disagree that what has been shown of the newgods in their full form are abstract level? Disagree.
Plus, you on the other hand, also think PC kryptonians, are abstract level.
So...ya.
Misinformation.

Originally posted by bigbran
Disagree.

I respect your choice to disagree and your view that they are not, but Nvr views them as Abstract level, as so do I. To say that it is pointless to debate with him because of his views is some what hypocritical because the same could be said of you.

Originally posted by bigbran
Disagree.
Plus, you on the other hand, also think PC kryptonians, are abstract level.
So...ya.
Misinformation.

Being able to destroy universes and realities by vibrating the right frequency is not abstract? Being able to traverse universes and change time effortlessly is not Abstract level?

Originally posted by Jesse7
I respect your choice to disagree and your view that they are not, but Nvr views them as Abstract level, as so do I. To say that it is pointless to debate with him because of his views is some what hypocritical because the same could be said of you. PC Kryptonians?
Both of you think that!
Get off my back, about the"same could be said about you" because even the DC fans, think your both DC fanboys.(delusional, was the correct term.)

Originally posted by Jesse7
Being able to destroy universes and realities by vibrating the right frequency is not abstract? Being able to traverse universes and change time effortlessly is not Abstract level?

Originally posted by bigbran
PC Kryptonians?
Both of you think that!
Get off my back, about the"same could be said about you" because even the DC fans, think your both DC fanboys.(delusional, was the correct term.)

You speak for others, if they think some thing of me let them say it, as for what they say I do not care, for they have the freedom to say what they want nor will I be angry over some one's opinion of me.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Being able to destroy universes and realities by vibrating the right frequency is not abstract? Being able to traverse universes and change time effortlessly is not Abstract level? You called him an actual Abstract, with a reason why.

But no, there is no way, no how, that he is an abstract!

Pc Supes Being able to destroy universes/realities by vibrating the right frequency is not abstract level? Being able to traverse universes and change time effortlessly is not Abstract level? Being able to effortlessly sneeze (completely destroy) solar systems is not a sign of abstract level? Have you seen what he did with mr mxy?

Originally posted by Jesse7
Pc Supes Being able to destroy universes/realities by vibrating the right frequency is not abstract level? Being able to traverse universes and change time effortlessly is not Abstract level? Being able to effortlessly sneeze (completely destroy) solar systems is not a sign of abstract level? Have you seen what he did with mr mxy? Are you just going to troll until you get what you want?
No Pc Supes is not an abstract, nor is anywhere near that level, ask anyone(beside your fellow debater,nvrbeenwthagirl)
What about getting stomped by Darky?(who in your opinion is also an abstract)

Originally posted by bigbran
You called him an actual Abstract, with a reason why.

But no, there is no way, no how, that he is an abstract!

By the way current Supes is much higher in purpose and existence then an abstract, as he and DS are neccisary to the source for all existence to "exist".

Pc Supes had Abstract power level and beyond, could chaos or order effortlessly destroy a universe/reality?

Current Supes in impotance and purpose is beyond universal abstracutuality

Originally posted by Jesse7
By the way current Supes is much higher in purpose and existence then an abstract, as he and DS are neccisary to the source for all existence to "exist".

Pc Supes had Abstract power level and beyond, could chaos or order effortlessly destroy a universe/reality?

Current Supes in impotance and purpose is beyond universal abstracutuality Profiled.

Originally posted by bigbran
Are you just going to troll until you get what you want?
No Pc Supes is not an abstract, nor is anywhere near that level, ask anyone(beside your fellow debater,nvrbeenwthagirl)
What about getting stomped by Darky?(who in your opinion is also an abstract)

Feats mean nothing to you now? Because the scans for the PC supes feats I just mentioned have been posted multiple times on these forums.

Could Chaos or Order of a marvel universe ( who are abstracts) effortlessly change time and the alternate universes as supes did?

Can the universal abstracts of marvel effortlessly destroy/close/open universes/realities by vibrating as Supes did?

Why do you throw insults at me, when the debate is of comic characters? You call me and Nvr disallusioned fanboys and or fangirls, yet you view yourself as the righteous hero here, and we as the plague.

Scans and feats, as well as DC retcons, mean nothing now?

Originally posted by bigbran
Profiled.

I smile, because how such mere and meaningless words can have such a impact upon you that it causes you to ingrave my name upon your cyber-web skin (your profile).

Regardless of what you say, it seems we have had an impact on you, how immature to let words on the internet get to you.

Or is your defense, that it is to show others of my disallusioned insanity? Just remember sight, opinion, and all physical word is subjective

Originally posted by Jesse7
Feats mean nothing to you now? Because the scans for the PC supes feats I just mentioned have been posted multiple times on these forums.

Could Chaos or Order of a marvel universe ( who are abstracts) effortlessly change time and the alternate universes as supes did?

Can the universal abstracts of marvel effortlessly destroy/close/open universes/realities by vibrating as Supes did? There is no way, to intelligently go at this post.
I'll deal with this tomorrow. I have to go.
Originally posted by Jesse7
Why do you throw insults at me, when the debate is of comic characters? You call me and Nvr disallusioned fanboys and or fangirls, yet you view yourself as the righteous hero here, and we as the plague.Actually I just brought up something, that someone else called him.
He called himself it, and someone else just agreed with him.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Scans and feats, as well as DC retcons, mean nothing now? Considering you have posted nothing yourself, you have no backup to what you just said.
Plus, you have to take, high end showings, and low end showings, into consideration, because as I'm aware, PC Supes had a lot of both.

Originally posted by bigbran
There is no way, to intelligently go at this post.
I'll deal with this tomorrow. I have to go.
Actually I just brought up something, that someone else called him.
He called himself it, and someone else just agreed with him.

Considering you have posted nothing yourself, you have no backup to what you just said.
Plus, you have to take, high end showings, and low end showings, into consideration, because as I'm aware, PC Supes had a lot of both.

Thats your defense, because I have't posted the scans, when they have been posted multiple times on these forums, and if you would just look for them you might find them.

By the forum rules, in any Versus battle all characters are blood lusted and are fighting at their best (not their low showings, but their best showings), unless the OP states otherwise; the forum rules also states that one time powers can be used.

You mention I should take high end and low end in showings for a debate? So I should ignore the forum rules, so say in a Silver Surfer Vs Superman Debate, I could say that since SIlver Surfer has never done a speed blitz in all his comic career he can't do it (because without on panel evidence of an actual speed blitz in combat its speculation), or should I bring up such feats as when Silver Surfer was nearly killed by a knife? Or when Silver Surfer was brought to his knees by one of storms thunderbolts which I will add he was unable to dodge.

You may not see it, but I think you are biased against DC and for marvel, even if its subconscious. Because you tell me to take in both high end and low end showings, yet when you debate for Silver Surfer you never mention his low end showings which he has plenty of, and when another does mention them you dismiss them as PIS.

meh, thanos owns darkseid all by himself....

darkseid is a universal threat, whereas thanos has CONQUERED the
MU more than once....

thanos has absorbed ALL the abstracts including LT....can darkseid do
that to the spectre, who is widely regarded as LT's equal?

and spectre>>darkseid

and then you give thanos a gem....add to that moondragon, gamora,
drax aaaannndd adam warlock, all with gems!

sounds like a gangbang of mindraping, time warping, soul ripping, space manipulation etc etc....

this isnt the x-men, who deal with magneto and apocalypse, its the infinity watch who deal with abstracts and nigh omnipotent beings....

thanos isnt even needed....

wait, darkseid's a god....bah! balders a god....

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
meh, thanos owns darkseid all by himself....

darkseid is a universal threat, whereas thanos has CONQUERED the
MU more than once....

thanos has absorbed ALL the abstracts including LT....can darkseid do
that to the spectre, who is widely regarded as LT's equal?

and spectre>>darkseid

and then you give thanos a gem....add to that moondragon, gamora,
drax aaaannndd adam warlock, all with gems!

sounds like a gangbang of mindraping, time warping, soul ripping, space manipulation etc etc....

this isnt the x-men, who deal with magneto and apocalypse, its the infinity watch who deal with abstracts and nigh omnipotent beings....

thanos isnt even needed....

wait, darkseid's a god....bah! balders a god....

Thanos has done no such thing on his own. He has always used some sort of Marvel plot device. They come up with a new all powerful weapon every other week. Darkseid has switched around galaxies with his thoughts. And telepathically dominated millions of beings. His OE has hurt the Spectre and The antimonitor. These are things that are COMPLETELY out of Thanos's power range. Next time do some research. Thanos can't beat Superman. Let alone Darkseid. And tho I love Thanos, Most of his truly uber showings are with some weapon or something.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Thats your defense, because I have't posted the scans, when they have been posted multiple times on these forums, and if you would just look for them you might find them.

By the forum rules, in any Versus battle all characters are blood lusted and are fighting at their best (not their low showings, but their best showings), unless the OP states otherwise; the forum rules also states that one time powers can be used.

You mention I should take high end and low end in showings for a debate? So I should ignore the forum rules, so say in a Silver Surfer Vs Superman Debate, I could say that since SIlver Surfer has never done a speed blitz in all his comic career he can't do it (because without on panel evidence of an actual speed blitz in combat its speculation), or should I bring up such feats as when Silver Surfer was nearly killed by a knife? Or when Silver Surfer was brought to his knees by one of storms thunderbolts which I will add he was unable to dodge.

You may not see it, but I think you are biased against DC and for marvel, even if its subconscious. Because you tell me to take in both high end and low end showings, yet when you debate for Silver Surfer you never mention his low end showings which he has plenty of, and when another does mention them you dismiss them as PIS.
OK, now where does it say that one time use powers are allowed...

Rules/Standard Fight Settings

In most cases, the poster who originally set up the versus fight determines the conditions of the fight itself (ex. If a character like Superman is in a thread, it'll be assumed that it's the current version unless mentioned otherwise by the thread starter, the same goes with Thanos without the IG, and so on). However, in the cases where the original poster did not set down any contraints or conditions for the fight, then the match would default to the standard rules below.

Prep time

Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not. For example, Batman cannot shove together an 'anti-Avengers ray' before the fight.

Standard Equipment

Each side starts out with the equipment that they normally and have been shown to consistently carry on them. For example, Daredevil would have his billy-club, but Reed Richards would not have the Ultimate Nullifier.
In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them. For example, in a scenario set in the DCU, Green Lantern would have access to equipment in the JLA Watchtower, but not the Titans headquarters.

Basic knowledge

Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.

Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

No outside help

Unless specified otherwise, no contestant may call for outside assistance, even in scenario matches. For example, Captain America cannot call in the Avengers during a fight with Batman.


Leaving the field

Combatants who leave the field of combat on purpose forfeit the match. If they are removed from the arena against their will (being punched, thrown, teleported, etc.) and can make it back under their own power, then they are still in the fight. Obviously, if a combatant leaves the field and cannot return under their own power, then they have lost.

No Bias Claims

"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.

No Non-canon Sources

Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.
As well, instances of PIS (plot induce stupidity - see below) and SvFL (Spiderman vs. Firelord - see below) are generally removed from consideration in standard versus debates.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

No Mentioning Events of PIS

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Examples of the CIS-afflicted include characters such as Rhino or Jar Jar Binks. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

No SvFL

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.

Concerning Superspeed

It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
(Now this isn't in stone, if you feel you know something that you believe is better, then go with it).

No Spite Threads

Now, a spite thread is usually considered as a thread opened to intentionally be one-sided (because the poster may not like that character, or opened to goad another person into responding, etc.). Moderators will decide if or if not a thread was made out of spite. Spite threads are NOT tolerated and will be closed, and the poster warned (or more severe consequences will be taken if that poster's been warned multiple times).)




Now, these rules are usually meant for the fantasy battles on the CBR Forums, but I figured they'd help organize things a little in here. At the moment, these rules are a bit experimental, so they'll be changed from time to time. Lets see if we can make these debates work a little better.

Thank you.

...because I'm not seing it?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Thanos has done no such thing on his own. He has always used some sort of Marvel plot device. They come up with a new all powerful weapon every other week. Darkseid has switched around galaxies with his thoughts. And telepathically dominated millions of beings. His OE has hurt the Spectre and The antimonitor. These are things that are COMPLETELY out of Thanos's power range.

true...yet the same for darkseid...

if he could switch galaxies or move planets at will, why doesnt he just drop a galaxy over the jla or against the new gods and be done with it...

it would have been better if it were thanos or warlock against darkseid....

but its not, its darkseid against the infinity watch....and he loses, badly!

your beautiful words and noble sentiments regarding darkseid is nice, and true to some extent....but he is up against a team, thanos included, with an infinity gem for each member!

hope you dont mind if i borrow some of your lines but some things are just COMPLETELY out of darkseid's power range...touche...

Originally posted by Jesse7
Why do you throw insults at me, when the debate is of comic characters? You call me and Nvr disallusioned fanboys and or fangirls , yet you view yourself as the righteous hero here, and we as the plague.




You just called nvrbeenwithagirl a girl...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
true...yet the same for darkseid...

if he could switch galaxies or move planets at will, why doesnt he just drop a galaxy over the jla or against the new gods and be done with it...

it would have been better if it were thanos or warlock against darkseid....

but its not, its darkseid against the infinity watch....and he loses, badly!

your beautiful words and noble sentiments regarding darkseid is nice, and true to some extent....but he is up against a team, thanos included, with an infinity gem for each member!

hope you dont mind if i borrow some of your lines but some things are just COMPLETELY out of darkseid's power range...touche...
CO SIGNED!

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
true...yet the same for darkseid...

if he could switch galaxies or move planets at will, why doesnt he just drop a galaxy over the jla or against the new gods and be done with it...

it would have been better if it were thanos or warlock against darkseid....

but its not, its darkseid against the infinity watch....and he loses, badly!

your beautiful words and noble sentiments regarding darkseid is nice, and true to some extent....but he is up against a team, thanos included, with an infinity gem for each member!

hope you dont mind if i borrow some of your lines but some things are just COMPLETELY out of darkseid's power range...touche...

I suppose for the Same Reason the New Gods never enter the main DCu without a boomtube. Thier true forms would be Gianormous and ruin the very places they would go. New God's true forms are huge. They could hold a planet in thier hand. Darkseid may be bound by Highfathers protection of the universe. Or he may be bound by the source. If his avatars can't use the OE on Superman becuz the source has need of him, i'm betting he isn't allowed to drop a galaxy on superman either. Darksied Far exceeds anything ANY one with an infinity Gem has ever done.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Thanos can't beat Superman. Let alone Darkseid. And tho I love Thanos, Most of his truly uber showings are with some weapon or something.