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The way Palpatine had rose to power and how he declared himself emperor can so easily happen in real life. Not only in the future, but even today.

With the whole Iraq war and the war on terrorism that looks like it will last forever, can allow a president to gain absolute control. If things get so bad, congress will lose some power, which will allow a president to gain full control, in order to 'secure stability and continuing security'. Its pretty obvious that the democrats will never get into power, and people will most likely vote republican.

Its possible because there can be conspiracies to let war prolong as long as it can for one to gain absolute control just like Palpatine....

Is this the right section... not sure.

But the big difference between Palpatine's Empire, and a U.S. Presidents "Empire," is that Palpatine had the utter loyalty of his clones. The American military are natural humans, capable of free, comprehensive, and enterprising thought and opinion. Not to mention most of the Republic was on Palpatine's side, whereas there's a rather large split in opinion towards the President's handling of the Iraq War and foreign policy.

You really want this to spin into flaming don't you.....

Impossible for it to happen in the US, and that's literal, the rules of this Country can't be broken, the Agencies/Military could very well remove any person that tried that.

And Bush won't do that despite what your Media/Presidential Runnerups told you :/

/threadclose

Tangible God's right. Besides, there's not just one body of the people who would object, but two: the Congress and the Senate. Also, the isn't the gulf of space that prevents the normal people from reaching the Supreme ruler, making rebellion even more difficult. The people themselves are not infatuated with Bush like they were with Palpatine; instead of seeing an intelligent, charming old man, they see an imcompetent nincom-poop

You confidence in your democracy is your weakness.... hehehehehe

i think it was pretty obvious, at least for me, that Palpatine's rise was intended to echo that of Hitler's.

Hitler rose to power first thru legitimate means, like Palpatine did - though by a good control of events that led him to be voted Supreme Chancellor. Htler then made shifting constitutional changes thru the Enabling Act that made him dictator. Palpatine too, pushed for constitutional changes thru the senators.

While hitler combined his Chancellor position and the Presidency to be known as the Fuhrer, which is rather similar to Palpatine's shift from chancellor to Emperor.

Originally posted by queeq
You confidence in your democracy is your weakness.... hehehehehe

Thats why both the US and the Galactic Republics are Republics.

Lucas said in the ROTS media interviews he was inspired by the politics of President Nixon's downfall. So Star Wars does have more of a Nixonian spin than Hitlerian taste. But true, Lucas borrowed from just about everywhere.

Yup..

Originally posted by Tangible God
Is this the right section...



In a word...NO

Palpatine's rise to power is almost an exact mirror of Hitlers rise to power in Germany.

Here, put it this way, if people are so afraid, due to terrorism, nuclear war, or even dictators in other countries, they will stop at nothing to protect their own safety. If things were to come to a point, where the lives of their families are in danger, and things can no longer be settled democratically, and extreme action is needed, then all power will go to one decision maker. Therefore the people will support this 'Emperor' to take action in order for their survival.

Hitlers rise to power was different, because his propaganda and strong rhetoric, was based on the hatred of Jews, who were the ones trying to make people all equal, and were accused of trying to take over. Hitler gained support by the people this way. It does have alot of similarities, but Palpatine was only fighting against a rebellion, while hitler was destroying races and those who didn't seem equal to him. Also, hitler never became ruler of the world to even have a rebellion.

Hitler needed someone to blame. The Jews were often at the top of German society...if your a poor worker buying a loaf of breat with a wheelbarrow full of cash...who are you going to blame?

...maybe the upper classes?

Hitler's play was brilliant.

And no, Hitler's rise to power does not have a lot of similarities with Star Wars.

I can think of a few similarities:
-Hitlers SS were used to crush opposition, Palpatine had his appentices.
-Hilter had Joeseph Goebbels to run his propaganda sceme, Palpatine used his senators.
-Hilter fooled (brainwashed) the people, Palpatine fooled even the jedi
-They both wanted war

Is that so much a specific parallel? Or just a practice of Totalitarian states?

Originally posted by JediRobin23
I can think of a few similarities:
-Hitlers SS were used to crush opposition, Palpatine had his appentices.
-Hilter had Joeseph Goebbels to run his propaganda sceme, Palpatine used his senators.
-Hilter fooled (brainwashed) the people, Palpatine fooled even the jedi
-They both wanted war Actually the SS resembles the Stormtroopers, since the SS were called... stormtroopers. And Goebbels more closely resembles Sate Pestage of all, at least in the beginning, the Imperial "Propaganda Network" after that.

And as to you're second-last post:

That's quite a supposition, it's possible, but improbable. If there's one leader in a time of crisis, a strong, smart and efficient leader, the people will rally around him. It doesn't have to be just America for that to happen. It can be seen throughout history, even back to early tribal days.

The difference with America nowadays is that it's very diverse. 300 million people aren't all gonna agree, a President hoping to become an "Emperor" will have to go through the lengthy process of eliminating the democratic way of life America's known for most of its 230 year history, not to mention twisting the entire media around his finger (a difficult feat in today's world) and erasing the country's memories towards fascism, totalitarism and dictatorships, all of which are unpleasant memories at best. Top the irritating obstacle known as the U.N. on that, what with it's sanctions and embargos etc., you're for a rough rise to power.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Actually the SS resembles the Stormtroopers, since the SS were called... stormtroopers. And Goebbels more closely resembles Sate Pestage of all, at least in the beginning, the Imperial "Propaganda Network" after that.

I like that, the galactic 'propaganda network'. Man, that would be interesting to see. Eg. On tatooine, how many times did you have a jawa f*ck you over? well the imperials........

anyway, Even if they know their leader is a complete retard, people may still support him because they think that he may make the much needed decision if times come to that point.
Hitler did feed the hungry after the great depression, so people supported him. Off course times arent like that now, but what if we were at the knowingly verge of a nuclear war? what decisions would you make?

On the verge of complete disintegration...?

Well of course I would support any means necessary to ensure the continuing security and stability. But in the wake of a nuclear war, I can't imagine any worse horror that an Emperor can impose.

Originally posted by JediRobin23
The way Palpatine had rose to power and how he declared himself emperor can so easily happen in real life. Not only in the future, but even today.

With the whole Iraq war and the war on terrorism that looks like it will last forever, can allow a president to gain absolute control. If things get so bad, congress will lose some power, which will allow a president to gain full control, in order to 'secure stability and continuing security'. Its pretty obvious that the democrats will never get into power, and people will most likely vote republican.

Its possible because there can be conspiracies to let war prolong as long as it can for one to gain absolute control just like Palpatine....

palps takeover is pretty much by the book. george lucas read a copy of "dictatorships for dummies" and followed it. and bush? he can strip as many of our civil liberties and bomb as many non-whites as he wishes, but he will never shoot lightning from his fingers, so **** his wannabe punk ass.

Originally posted by Tangible God
On the verge of complete disintegration...?

Well of course I would support any means necessary to ensure the continuing security and stability. But in the wake of a nuclear war, I can't imagine any worse horror that an Emperor can impose.

The emperor would be the one to stop or prevent it, not be the instigator.

The Hitler-parralel fits Palpy quite well. The Jews weren't the major issue of his political success. Hitler thrived due to the bad economic situation and the fact that Germany was made bankrupt in the aftermath of WWI. They DID have a a separist-like opposition in the form of the Allied Forces of WWI. England, France and the US basically crippled Germany and the socialists of Germany conceded with the proposed crippling of the former agressor. That did major damage to self image of Germany and the Depression didn't help. Hitler's nationalistic approach was a boost for the German way of life. He made them believe that choosing for Germany and the German way of life would lead to prosperity and security, out of the grasp of the weakened position in the world. In other words, he made Germans feel good about themselves and then abused the democratic system to get elected with a majority of votes. That was manipulated by having the SA keeping socialists out of the voting offices... but there are similarities to Palpy. And also shows that democracy CAN be used to gain power and dictatorship.

democracy is simply a system of popular votes....we found that out in the Middle East. Hezbollah and Hamas can win votes as easily as the moderates can.

Indeed... and democracy can be manipulated. The Bush/Gore elections proved that once again.

And democracy can be manipulated. The Bush/Gore elections proved that once more.

Originally posted by JediRobin23
The emperor would be the one to stop or prevent it, not be the instigator. Exactly. The "Emperor" in this scenario would stop a nuclear war. If this Emperor is a bad guy to his people though, I'd still pick him, since I prefer any oppression he can dish-out to global decimation.

Until you ARE in the oppression and realise the nuclear threat was a lie or an exaggeration at least...

Originally posted by queeq
Until you ARE in the oppression and realise the nuclear threat was a lie or an exaggeration at least... Well then I go Hulk on his ass.

Chancellor Hitler = Supreme Chancellor Palpatine

Third Reich (German Empire) Fuhrer = Emperor of Galactic Empire

Reducing the Reichstag powers = Appointment of Regional Governors, dissolving of the Senate

SS (stormtroopers), Reich army = Clones, Imperial Stormtroopers

German helmet = Vader's helmet

Hitler's Enabling Act = US Patriotic Act = Order 66, Republic reorganised

German concentration camps, chemical weapons = US Abu Ghraib, Guantanamao Bay, Nuclear weapons = Death Star

"It is amazing the similar mistakes we make in Iraq and in Vietnam" - George Lucas

Originally posted by Tangible God
Well then I go Hulk on his ass.

Bush beware!

Originally posted by Cybervader
German helmet = Vader's helmet


Actually, Vader's helmet was based on the Japanese feudal samurai helmets...

The best is by far the Mandalorian helmet...followed closely by scout troopers.

On the homepage, this thread looked like "Alliance's Rise To Power" because Alliance was the last to post ermm

Alliance IS trying to rise to power.

Why should people feel that they should trust theie government to protect them? Even if a government doesn't tell you anything, (Secret stuff) that its ok? wouldn't you want to know the full truth in order to make up your own dam mind? Its like, what is un-said seems to be accepted.

Palpatine works in such similar ways

Men in Black had a wonderful line I won't soon forget: "A person is smart, people are dumb, stupid animals, and you know that."

Tell the populace the country's secrets and plans and the U.S. would have dissolved into 50 different countries long ago. Rebellions, uprisings, secessions. The average Joe DOES NOT need to know everything.

thats not only immature, but a retarded attitude

people, no matter how dumb there are, still have a say. The Majority, also have a say. WTF you talking?

Originally posted by JediRobin23
thats not only immature, but a retarded attitude

people, no matter how dumb there are, still have a say. The Majority, also have a say. WTF you talking? A friend of mine once came up with a theory that the government is holding back the use of the electric car in order to become rich from the oil companies. While I'd disagree with such secrecy, if a government as unpopular as the Bush administration say, was found out to be doing such a thing, I can't help but see a violent revolution emerging.

The average populace should not be privy to government information that could be dangerous when leaked out. Oh sure, noone's gonna make the info. on how to make a nuclear warhead open to the public, and why not? Because it's dangerous obviously. If people honestly believe that everything the gov't does or knows is, or should be so open to the public, they're taking quite a naive route. Nonetheless, the country, no matter the leadership of the current cabinet, remains united. I have a right to voice my opinion and vote for who I want, but that does not mean I'm entitled to know everything going on, especially when it doesn't invlove me.

Every time something gets exsposed or revealed, a public outcry and/or backlash emerges. One little secret is slipped and suddenly it's the story of the year. Imagine if everything was revealed.

REVOLUTION!!!!!

IVE BEEN EXPOSED!

FINALLY!!!

And now Alliance goes ninja on our @sses...

I hate those flying stars. They hurt.

Dodge!

Originally posted by queeq
And now Alliance goes ninja on our @sses...

o rly?

I'm not really a fan af shurikens....btw.

That's a relief then.

For you....or so you think.

I hope

I don't.

I do.

I don't.

Why not?

shurikens can kill mods instantly.

Can.. but won't. We're quite well protected, you know.

Allegedly.

No, I'm sure.

Allegedly.

Nah.

JediRobin, is this a conspiracy theory thread? ermm

Originally posted by chinabing
Lucas said in the ROTS media interviews he was inspired by the politics of President Nixon's downfall. So Star Wars does have more of a Nixonian spin than Hitlerian taste. But true, Lucas borrowed from just about everywhere.

Yes indeed...he said "It will be like the 30's!"

....is this a warzone????

Yup

Originally posted by JediRobin23
Here, put it this way, if people are so afraid, due to terrorism, nuclear war, or even dictators in other countries, they will stop at nothing to protect their own safety. If things were to come to a point, where the lives of their families are in danger, and things can no longer be settled democratically, and extreme action is needed, then all power will go to one decision maker. Therefore the people will support this 'Emperor' to take action in order for their survival.

Hitlers rise to power was different, because his propaganda and strong rhetoric, was based on the hatred of Jews, who were the ones trying to make people all equal, and were accused of trying to take over. Hitler gained support by the people this way. It does have alot of similarities, but Palpatine was only fighting against a rebellion, while hitler was destroying races and those who didn't seem equal to him. Also, hitler never became ruler of the world to even have a rebellion.

Ok, first of all the lives of our families are already being put in danger.
- WTC twice.
- OKlahoma City
- Flight 93
- John Walker Lindh
- The bombings in Europe
- Numerous attacks that have been stopped before they happened.

Second, things could never have been solved democratically, it would take both sides of the conflict being democratic by nature to do that. Besides if they could have been solved that way we wouldn't be in Iraq now.

Third, if you think the President makes his decisions solely based on what he thinks is right you have a skewed and naive perspective. The President as well as the leaders of other Major Foreign Democracies make decisions based on what the representatives from each area support, talks to advisors, talks to there spouses, maybe even there dogs. Fact of the matter is they don't make the decision alone and in fact much of the power is in the hands of the Houses. Congress has to approve a declaration of war.

In other words, no one will ever rise to the level of power that Palps, Hitler, or Hussein had. The right to bare arms won't allow it. The free people of the U.S. would rebel against it too strongly.

So all you need is a 2/3 majority to change the constitution where Americans are NOT allowed to bear arms and a dictatorship is in amaking...

There are too many failsafe's written into our laws to have a single individual rise to power that way it's just not going to happen. Besides the real power lies in the people behind the scenes, so who ever is holding office is just a talking head for the most part. It's the party in the majority that holds the power.

Any society will fall one day or another... even all those so-called fail-safe devices. Democracy is just another system for power to perpuate itself in one form or another. And in the end power will fail.

Thats rather pessimistic.

Is it better to have power and fail or to be powerless and do nothing.

True. But power attracts the strangest of men...

would that be everyone?

Uh no...

...

Originally posted by Tangible God
A friend of mine once came up with a theory that the government is holding back the use of the electric car in order to become rich from the oil companies. While I'd disagree with such secrecy, if a government as unpopular as the Bush administration say, was found out to be doing such a thing, I can't help but see a violent revolution emerging.



The electric car was held back for business reasons. Its like how the big dog oil company can control the price of a barrel of oil by simply just playing with the tap. Should I open the tap and sell it at the global market price, or should I limit my supply to keep prices up. Its all artificial markets and thats how your american economy works. Gee, I wonder Why they invaded Iraq. If Saddam threatends to sell crude oil at a cheaper price, then he can f*ck over your whole economy. There is so much money invested in this energy thing. People in general protect their investments, and tend to go to war and kill the little guy so they can continue to be secure. When it comes to the big bucks, theres no f*cking around (billions). So, in that respect, you can justify your actions and be able to sleep at night (<--Sarcasm). Its about business, and succesful companies gotta be crooked to be successful companies.

Originally posted by lord_radar1
Ok, first of all the lives of our families are already being put in danger.
- WTC twice.
- OKlahoma City
- Flight 93
- John Walker Lindh
- The bombings in Europe
- Numerous attacks that have been stopped before they happened.

Second, things could never have been solved democratically, it would take both sides of the conflict being democratic by nature to do that. Besides if they could have been solved that way we wouldn't be in Iraq now.

Third, if you think the President makes his decisions solely based on what he thinks is right you have a skewed and naive perspective. The President as well as the leaders of other Major Foreign Democracies make decisions based on what the representatives from each area support, talks to advisors, talks to there spouses, maybe even there dogs. Fact of the matter is they don't make the decision alone and in fact much of the power is in the hands of the Houses. Congress has to approve a declaration of war.

In other words, no one will ever rise to the level of power that Palps, Hitler, or Hussein had. The right to bare arms won't allow it. The free people of the U.S. would rebel against it too strongly.

The president can make a decision based on the information that he receives. But, who is providing him with this information? The priority is the deciding factor in how we progress. To keep away from the philosopy lesson, a president can also be a puppet in a way, but what makes him different is he has the authority, but there are contributing factors that influence his decison making.

Originally posted by JediRobin23
The electric car was held back for business reasons. Its like how the big dog oil company can control the price of a barrel of oil by simply just playing with the tap. Should I open the tap and sell it at the global market price, or should I limit my supply to keep prices up. Its all artificial markets and thats how your american economy works. Gee, I wonder Why they invaded Iraq. If Saddam threatends to sell crude oil at a cheaper price, then he can f*ck over your whole economy. There is so much money invested in this energy thing. People in general protect their investments, and tend to go to war and kill the little guy so they can continue to be secure. When it comes to the big bucks, theres no f*cking around (billions). So, in that respect, you can justify your actions and be able to sleep at night (<--Sarcasm). Its about business, and succesful companies gotta be crooked to be successful companies. I'm also Canadian.

And exactly. That's how corporate America functions. I can't help but view it that the Capitalist West has become so morally corrupt that we'll ruin our environment and our own country for the sake of profits. It's a sickening thought, I pray I'm deluded.

Bit off topic folks.... this shoudl go to the political forum...

We don't have a political forum.

Oh... it's been removed. We used to have one, mods usually avoided it.
Well, then it should be in the GDF.

Ok.

The politics have lessened.

I guess theres no politics in star wars??

You guess wrong.

Hehehehe

You are assuming that the "real" Palpatine would be an identifiable person, as Hitler ... but that is such a waste of time and energy ... the real power sits behind in the shadows pulling all the strings, laughing of our ignorance.

You know him?