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alright this is a battle of what would truly prevail: michael whom equals (the ultimate power); or lucifer whom equals (the ultimate will)....... keep in mind that michaels power is omnipotent and his will is great, while lucifers will is infinate and his power is great...... so who do YOU think would win if these two ever truly batteled and if they were both at their best?

they would be fighting forever there powers were meant to work together they balance each other out, however lucifer has proved he is smarter than michael. this would be a tough fight

Originally posted by invisiblewoman
they would be fighting forever there powers were meant to work together they balance each other out, however lucifer has proved he is smarter than michael. this would be a tough fight agreed

Originally posted by galan7777777
alright this is a battle of what would truly prevail: michael whom equals (the ultimate power); or lucifer whom equals (the ultimate will)....... keep in mind that michaels power is omnipotent and his will is great, while lucifers will is infinate and his power is great...... so who do YOU think would win if these two ever truly batteled and if they were both at their best?

I love your description of them: Ultimate power vs. Ultimate will.

I can't choose.

Originally posted by Darksaint
I love your description of them: Ultimate power vs. Ultimate will.

I can't choose. yeah, it is a very hard choice, but remember as lucifer himself put it; "what good is omnipotence without the WILL to use it"

Originally posted by galan7777777
yeah, it is a very hard choice, but remember as lucifer himself put it; "what good is omnipotence without the WILL to use it"
GOOD POINT HE MUST KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT

Originally posted by invisiblewoman
GOOD POINT HE MUST KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT he above all would definatley know what he is talking about

Originally posted by galan7777777
he above all would definatley know what he is talking about that is true

didnt they fight and lucifer beat him.

Originally posted by Mider999
didnt they fight and lucifer beat him. yes, but lucifer was empowered by fenris, and michael was greatly weakend

Originally posted by galan7777777
yes, but lucifer was empowered by fenris, and michael was greatly weakend Wouldn't Fenris weaken him, because he doesn't have his great mind?

Originally posted by bigbran
Wouldn't Fenris weaken him, because he doesn't have his great mind? To get to the world tree, parts of a being both physical and mental are torn from them. Michael had lost his wings and so he was greatly depowered.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
To get to the world tree, parts of a being both physical and mental are torn from them. Michael had lost his wings and so he was greatly depowered. Yes, ok heres the fight.
http://static.flickr.com/49/127464919_af2af2baac_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1/127469426_2b3af8bec3_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1/127469702_c4f85ce598_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1/127470085_81b4dfd684_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/46/127470368_67cb8e8b35_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/47/127470943_a27faa485c_o.jpg

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes, ok heres the fight.
http://static.flickr.com/49/127464919_af2af2baac_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1/127469426_2b3af8bec3_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1/127469702_c4f85ce598_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1/127470085_81b4dfd684_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/46/127470368_67cb8e8b35_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/47/127470943_a27faa485c_o.jpg Yeah, both were depowered because of the trip. Elaine lost her eyes from it. He got a boost from fenris.

Good fight, notice how bad Lucifer looks... Could be Michael was just trying to shake off Fenris from Lucifer, which is prob the case. Michael however has been shown winning vs Lucifer in the Great War, and told Lucifer while he was at Primum Mobile "Do you wish to be kicked out of Heaven all over again?"... Michael could win this.

Originally posted by kevdude
Good fight, notice how bad Lucifer looks... Could be Michael was just trying to shake off Fenris from Lucifer, which is prob the case. Michael however has been shown winning vs Lucifer in the Great War, and told Lucifer while he was at Primum Mobile "Do you wish to be kicked out of Heaven all over again?"... Michael could win this. Or Lucifer could just withstand his Multiversal big bang again...

What looks worst, Michael controling a blast to Lucifer/Fenris. Or a uncontrolled blast that would destroy the Multiverse?

whatttttttt what blast could destroy a multiverse?

Ok IF that blast could destroy a multiverse and Lucifer wasn't effected by it and looked fine. Michael CONTROLLING a blast and its effected area and Lucifer looked horrible. I wonder what is worst!

i dont get it where does it say the blast can destroy a multiverse please someone tell me where it says that.

Originally posted by Mider999
i dont get it where does it say the blast can destroy a multiverse please someone tell me where it says that. it dosent, the big bang that came from michael which lucifer survived was only enough energy to shape a universe, so we can only assume it was a universal big bang, not a multiversal one

bump

Originally posted by kevdude
Good fight, notice how bad Lucifer looks... Could be Michael was just trying to shake off Fenris from Lucifer, which is prob the case. Michael however has been shown winning vs Lucifer in the Great War, and told Lucifer while he was at Primum Mobile "Do you wish to be kicked out of Heaven all over again?"... Michael could win this. michael might win this, but consider the fact that when the fallen angels batteled the host the first time (the great war), michael was completely empowered with all of the power of yahweh himself, he rode against the other fallen angels and destroyed many of them as if they were nothing, but yet even this ammount of power could not kill lucifer, because lucifer used his infinate will to make michael doubt himself which allowed michael to be impaled...... (just something to think about)

Woot the thread has been made!

I say Michael could defeat Lucifer, Michaels will is equal to Lucifer's will depending on how you percieve the story from the begining to the end, this means their powers are about equal but in different perspectives.

Michael has defeated Lucifer in combat in the war of the begining, the blast that Lucifer survived when he impaled Michael out side of existence was very weak in terms of sheer power; the evidence that supports that is that first Michael was very weak from years of torture, secondly Michael when focusing does not have universal power but uncalculable power since he is the power of DC's god.

Michael later in the series (story) becomes "one" with the logoz, Michael and Lucifer both have great power, and they both have equally great wills, Lucifers strength was that he always had a desire to fulfill no matter, Michael's will was to please god or depending on how you look at it to be with god and go on with him no matter what, and in the end they both fulfilled their wills.

Lucifer chose not to lose his desire, his passion, he chose not to become one with god.

Michael chose to continue through all, to lose all, he chose to become one with god, depending on how you look at it, to go on with god.

P.S. It wasn't that Michael could not kill Lucifer, it was that he was not meant too, remember that yaweh told Lucifer that everything has purpose and that despises waste. Every single thing that happened, from lucifer rebelling and leading others, to Michael riding out against lucifer, that everything has purpose and meaning to his plan.

P.S.S. Michael and Lucifer are like different aspects of DC's god incarnated, each with the polar opposite of the other yet both having half and each being all of DC's god.

Do not think that Michael is any less intelligent, and or brilliant then Lucifer, both are equally infinite.

One may chose to be more crafty well the other more brilliant, but they are both equally intelligent; each has a different way of using, projecting and symbolizing it.

well the blast created DCU and then Krona messed it up and made the multiverse. see unlike MU originally there wasn't supposed to be a multiverse. so in a sense it is a multiversal blast.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Do not think that Michael is any less intelligent, and or brilliant then Lucifer, both are equally infinite.

One may chose to be more crafty well the other more brilliant, but they are both equally intelligent; each has a different way of using, projecting and symbolizing it. michael is not any less intelligent then lucifer, but you cannot put him in the same league as lucifer where will is concerned........how many times has lucifer made michael doubt himself and his existance...... lucifer is the puppet master and the rest of the universe are his puppets, michael possessed the power that created the first big bang, and also the power of the 2nd big bang in the uncreated realm. but without lucifers sheer infinate will to manipulate these forces it would have never become anything more then cosmic radiation..... they are both great, (just in much different ways)

Originally posted by Superherovandal
well the blast created DCU and then Krona messed it up and made the multiverse. see unlike MU originally there wasn't supposed to be a multiverse. so in a sense it is a multiversal blast. yeah the original big bang did......

Originally posted by invisiblewoman
yeah the original big bang did...... this is true

Good fight, it depends. I think Michael has Lucifer beat on power but Will is another story. I like how Michael snaps at others who sympathize with Lucifer. Like when Michael tells Elaine
"You do not know him, and if you did you would be cautious near him"

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Good fight, it depends. I think Michael has Lucifer beat on power but Will is another story. I like how Michael snaps at others who sympathize with Lucifer. Like when Michael tells Elaine
"You do not know him, and if you did you would be cautious near him" lol, this is very true, but remember what lucifer said: "what good is omnipotence without the WILL to control it?" you can have limitless power as michael does, but without the will to control it, power is pointless

Originally posted by galan7777777
lol, this is very true, but remember what lucifer said: "what good is omnipotence without the WILL to control it?" you can have limitless power as michael does, but without the will to control it, power is pointless

Michael by himself is very weak, what makes Michael so strong is that god is flowing through him, even more so when be comes one with the logoz (the word of god), and finally when he choses to sacrifice and give up all that he has and ever will have, so that he could leave with god and in a way be one with "god's" will.

It's not Michaels will that in the end is perfected, but rather the will in Michael becomes "god's" will.

To compare Lucifer and Michael at the end is very different, because by the end of the story they both become some thing different from one another.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Michael by himself is very weak, what makes Michael so strong is that god is flowing through him, even more so when be comes one with the logoz (the word of god), and finally when he choses to sacrifice and give up all that he has and ever will have, so that he could leave with god and in a way be one with "god's" will.

It's not Michaels will that in the end is perfected, but rather the will in Michael becomes "god's" will.

To compare Lucifer and Michael at the end is very different, because by the end of the story they both become some thing different from one another. yes, i understand but we are comparing both of these characters at their best (in physical form)

Originally posted by galan7777777
yes, i understand but we are comparing both of these characters at their best (in physical form)

Unlike any other characters, I'm not going to compare them by feats, because the story is completely beyond feats, it is a story of so much more, do you know what I mean?

Originally posted by Jesse7
Unlike any other characters, I'm not going to compare them by feats, because the story is completely beyond feats, it is a story of so much more, do you know what I mean? i know exactly what you mean....... it is in my oppinion the best written comic that ive read, have u ever read the sandman GN where he encounters lucifer in hell when lucifer closes the gates?

I have not read that.

But some thing I find so interesting about Lucifer and Michael, is that they were created from the begining to be opposites, they were both given free will yet their outcomes were already known from before the begining.

In a way they both helped to shape one another very much, giving one another what the other lacked.

Rivals, brothers, enemies, two sides of the same coin.

Originally posted by Jesse7
I have not read that.

But some thing I find so interesting about Lucifer and Michael, is that they were created from the begining to be opposites, they were both given free will yet their outcomes were already known from before the begining.

In a way they both helped to shape one another very much, giving one another what the other lacked.

Rivals, brothers, enemies, two sides of the same coin. well they were created to eventually become opposites, they are very much like god and GEB.....very much the same power-wise but just on the opposite side of the coin u know? and i highly recomend that issue of the sandman series, it gives u in much better detail the reason why lucifer left hell, and hints at his true power..... its a very good read, my favorite out of all of them!

....

i am actually reading Sand Man seasons of the mist, i haven't got that far yet but it is a hard book to put down. From what i have read so far it gives a better understanding to the Lucifer comics/novels

Originally posted by invisiblewoman
i am actually reading Sand Man seasons of the mist, i haven't got that far yet but it is a hard book to put down. From what i have read so far it gives a better understanding to the Lucifer comics/novels it definatley does