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I think this would be a good fight. Wondie's most certainly much stronger than him and much faster but Spidey's faced opponents like her before and overcome them numerous times.

No PIS/CIS. No prep. Bloodlust on.

Cassie gets the Sword of Hephaestus.

Originally posted by Draco69
I think this would be a good fight. Wondie's most certainly much stronger than him and much faster but Spidey's faced opponents like her before and overcome them numerous times.

No PIS/CIS. No prep. Bloodlust on.

Cassie gets the Sword of Hephaestus.

She needs to put that sword down. She would put her Eye out. Spider man beats her unconcoius. She's too rash, and un cooth and shows lack of skill and maturity. Spider has faced the juggernaut and firelord and the hulk. WOnder Girl is not there yet.

Spidey wrecks her imo.

good fight strenght wise, but SM got her is every other aspect. he wins 8/10 (I give her two because of flight and her lasso)

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
She needs to put that sword down. She would put her Eye out. Spider man beats her unconcoius. She's too rash, and un cooth and shows lack of skill and maturity. Spider has faced the juggernaut and firelord and the hulk. WOnder Girl is not there yet.

Wonder Girl: My....*sniff!*....boyfriend....*SOB!* DIED!! Oh my god, I'm so goddamned depressed.

Wonder Woman: Cassandra. It's been nearly a year now. Don't you think it's best to move on a little?

Wonder Girl: He was so handsome and smart. Did you know he could recite the Star-Spangled Banner using Q-Tips?

Wonder Woman: I believe it's time to find another protege....Cassandra CAIN might be a good option....the lasso will take of the "I'm evil now" brainwashing anyway....

Originally posted by Draco69
Wonder Girl: My....*sniff!*....boyfriend....*SOB!* DIED!! Oh my god, I'm so goddamned depressed.

Wonder Woman: Cassandra. It's been nearly a year now. Don't you think it's best to move on a little?

Wonder Girl: He was so handsome and smart. Did you know he could recite the Star-Spangled Banner using Q-Tips?

Wonder Woman: I believe it's time to find another protege....Cassandra CAIN might be a good option....the lasso will take of the "I'm evil now" brainwashing anyway....

Actually OYL Cassie has moved on for the most part

Tim is the one with the issues over Kon

oh and Wondergirl is way, way stronger than spiderman she's held he own against the likes Superboy and Donna Troy.
She manhandled a superman robot easlly
She's also way faster than spidey
These two factors plus the lasso and the sword give Cassie the win 8/10 times
and the superboy Donna troy fights were before her Ares power up

Spite?

Cassie would take off Peter's head with one punch

Cassie should take this but I can see Peter giving her fits.

Um... how exactly would Spider-Man win here?

Wonder Girl was comparative to Superboy. This is slightly rediculous.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Um... how exactly would Spider-Man win here?

Cement truck

Originally posted by Validus
Cement truck

I don't follow...

Never mind then. weep

Um, what? Since when is Wonder Girl comparitive to Superboy? Aside from his Titans-busting, a weakened Superboy did much better against SBP than she did.


I also haven't seen her display any combat speed, so I think Spidey would be blitzing her in a fight. Generally, I like Spidey's chances against most conventional bricks, although her shock lasso is a wild card.


I give Spidey the majority against pre-OYL Cassie. Post-OYL, I'm not sure, as she seems to have gained a good deal of experience.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Um, what? Since when is Wonder Girl comparitive to Superboy? Aside from his Titans-busting, a weakened Superboy did much better against SBP than she did.


I also haven't seen her display any combat speed, so I think Spidey would be blitzing her in a fight. Generally, I like Spidey's chances against most conventional bricks, although her shock lasso is a wild card.


I give Spidey the majority against pre-OYL Cassie. Post-OYL, I'm not sure, as she seems to have gained a good deal of experience.
Since she stalemated him in YJ and in Teen Titans issue 25 I belive.
and this is before she got a power boost frm ares

i would have to give it to spidy based on experiance he's delt with her type and more countless of times before not saying he could beat her in his sleep or anything but there's not too much she can throw at him that he isnt used to already....spidy irritates her soo much with his jokes that she makes mistakes allowing him to beat her

Spidey would go down in the end, but I'll bet he wouldn't make it easy.

She would telegraph her moves. He has better reflexes and that spidey sense. He also knows how to use momentum against an opponent. HE's strong enough to see her make a dumb move and charge against him. ANd he would use her momentum to swing her face first into a nice brick wall. She has been ko'd before. she looses.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
She needs to put that sword down. She would put her Eye out. Spider man beats her unconcoius. She's too rash, and un cooth and shows lack of skill and maturity. Spider has faced the juggernaut and firelord and the hulk. WOnder Girl is not there yet.
Considering she took some blows, from Superboy Prime, I'm pretty sure, old Parker is losing here..... BIG TIME.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
She has been ko'd before. she looses. Everyone has been koed, before.... Nice example.

Spiderman takes her out quickly.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
She would telegraph her moves. He has better reflexes and that spidey sense. He also knows how to use momentum against an opponent. HE's strong enough to see her make a dumb move and charge against him. ANd he would use her momentum to swing her face first into a nice brick wall. She has been ko'd before. she looses.


shes been trained by artemis . Diana, Donna, and she probably learned even more from tim.

Shes just as good as Spidey in Hand to hand.

Oh and she has better reflexes too.
For example when she first got he rpowers she was a lot weaker then she is now. Even so she was able to catch a bunch of arrows shot at targets by Artemis before they got even close to the targets, and she did this in seconds. Now a days she has even better reflexes
Shes a lot faster then spidey too pre oyl she could fly a little over the speed of sound post oyl and ares power up she can go alot faster.

Now lets review shall we
Wondergirl
Class one hundred strength
Moves at speeds faster than the speed of sound
Bullet blocking reflexes
Super Human durabilty
a sword that can cut through any thing
a lasso that emits zues's ligthtning
vs
Spiderman
class 15 strength
top speed is 65 mile per hour
bullet dodging reflexes.
web shooters

no who do you think is going to win

God I see spiderman having as good a chance against wondergirl as he does against a Non-extremis Ironman.

Meaning almost non at all.

Fighting ability.. I'd say about equal. Overall strength, easily to Wondergirl. Overall Speed, easily wondergirl. Combat speed. I'd give that to spiderman...

I'd give spiderman 2 or maybe 3 out of 10 at most.

Originally posted by rotiart
God I see spiderman having as good a chance against wondergirl as he does against a Non-extremis Ironman.

Meaning almost non at all.

Fighting ability.. I'd say about equal. Overall strength, easily to Wondergirl. Overall Speed, easily wondergirl. Combat speed. I'd give that to spiderman...

I'd give spiderman 2 or maybe 3 out of 10 at most.

I see how much easier the peopel I want to win, actually win when I just argue against them. I"m gonna try this more often. Who in thier right minds thought I would ever argue against Wonder Girl. Freaking Wonder Girl. Hello, Biggest Wonder Woman fan ever in existance with like all her toys and stuff. lol. Go cassie.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I see how much easier the peopel I want to win, actually win when I just argue against them. I"m gonna try this more often. Who in thier right minds thought I would ever argue against Wonder Girl. Freaking Wonder Girl. Hello, Biggest Wonder Woman fan ever in existance with like all her toys and stuff. lol. Go cassie.
People with common sense don't really care about who you argue for.

Originally posted by Accel
People with common sense don't really care about who you argue for. Owned!!!

What do you do with those WW toys?....

scary.

Originally posted by Accel
People with common sense don't really care about who you argue for.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/superdante/O_RLY-Quite.jpg

Originally posted by Devil Lance

shes been trained by artemis . Diana, Donna, and she probably learned even more from tim.

Shes just as good as Spidey in Hand to hand.

Oh and she has better reflexes too.
For example when she first got he rpowers she was a lot weaker then she is now. Even so she was able to catch a bunch of arrows shot at targets by Artemis before they got even close to the targets, and she did this in seconds. Now a days she has even better reflexes
Shes a lot faster then spidey too pre oyl she could fly a little over the speed of sound post oyl and ares power up she can go alot faster.

Now lets review shall we
Wondergirl
Class one hundred strength
Moves at speeds faster than the speed of sound
Bullet blocking reflexes
Super Human durabilty
a sword that can cut through any thing
a lasso that emits zues's ligthtning
vs
Spiderman
class 15 strength
top speed is 65 mile per hour
bullet dodging reflexes.
web shooters

no who do you think is going to win
so tell me if it's all just about the stat then how is it that spidy's beaten the likes of firelord i know nobody likes bringing that up but it's a good example of spidy be completely over match and still winning and guess what folks it happend. he's been doneing this for a long long time now he has the xp to take her down she may be more powerful but he's quicker on his feet he can come up with a surefire plan on the fly dont just say that because she's more powerful he's oing down hell venom and carnage are more powerful and he finds ways to beat them

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I see how much easier the peopel I want to win, actually win when I just argue against them. I"m gonna try this more often. Who in thier right minds thought I would ever argue against Wonder Girl. Freaking Wonder Girl. Hello, Biggest Wonder Woman fan ever in existance with like all her toys and stuff. lol. Go cassie.

I don't care what you're reasonings are into why you think spiderman wins. I didn't vote for wondergirl just cause you voted for spiderman.

I'm a big. HUGE cap fan. and i'll admit it when he'll lose. so don't act like anything special happened.

btw.. notice.. omg.. marvel fanboy voted for dc.. or dear god!!!

and you dc fanboy... voted for marvel!!!

does that mean hell froze over now?

Originally posted by lando005
so tell me if it's all just about the stat then how is it that spidy's beaten the likes of firelord i know nobody likes bringing that up but it's a good example of spidy be completely over match and still winning and guess what folks it happend. he's been doneing this for a long long time now he has the xp to take her down she may be more powerful but he's quicker on his feet he can come up with a surefire plan on the fly dont just say that because she's more powerful he's oing down hell venom and carnage are more powerful and he finds ways to beat them This...


No SvFL

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.

Originally posted by lando005
so tell me if it's all just about the stat then how is it that spidy's beaten the likes of firelord i know nobody likes bringing that up but it's a good example of spidy be completely over match and still winning and guess what folks it happend. he's been doneing this for a long long time now he has the xp to take her down she may be more powerful but he's quicker on his feet he can come up with a surefire plan on the fly dont just say that because she's more powerful he's oing down hell venom and carnage are more powerful and he finds ways to beat them

venom and carnage.. fire and sonics.. ie.. PIS.

spiderman beating firelord... um... she-hulk almost broke her hand trying to punch surfer... and she is easily leagues stronger than spiderman... and both being heralds would have equivalent durabilities...

SP vs FL is PIS. if spiderman had the unipower... or venom suit.. i could see it... but he nearly breaks his hands hitting guys like rhino and hulk.. its pis that he would hit a more durable guy and win the fight more easily.

Originally posted by Accel
People with common sense don't really care about who you argue for.

They sure as hell like to argue in my threads tho. F U

Originally posted by Accel
People with common sense don't really care about who you argue for.

Between this comment, and Vally's pic, i'm in tears........Tears!!

Ahh, poor NeverHadAClue

Originally posted by UniOmni
Between this comment, and Vally's pic, i'm in tears........Tears!!

Ahh, poor NeverHadAClue

what ever works, I get the forums going baby. My threads get people heated, they call me names, they respond fast. So what if they hate me or not. As long as the forum is exciting.

ok if u dont want to use that example ther's plenty more spider-man's also held his own and beaten other high powered contenders down the line as well he's even held his own against some forces that have taken on both the avengers and the ff solo sooo i would say that he has a very good chance of wining he may be outclassed in sheer ability but that hardly seals the fight

And I still think Spider Man knocks her out. She's too brash and head strong. She may have been trained by the best, but the way she is getting knocked around in the titans and WW title, dont' show her doing well at all. her or Donna.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
what ever works, I get the forums going baby. My threads get people heated, they call me names, they respond fast. So what if they hate me or not. As long as the forum is exciting.

You, sir, smell. zorro

Originally posted by bigbran
This...


No SvFL

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They sure as hell like to argue in my threads tho. F U

Your thread?

I think these threads belong more to guys like Tron and Paolo.

and as for making it exciting.. theres nothing exciting about it. You get off on being universally panned as having biased viewpoints...

as far as "your threads" you constantly bring up the dc vs. marvel arguement... so we go in there to watch as you drop the soap for us.

I don't really go in there to argue the threads. I just like watching you get torn to shreds now. its a new hobby of mine. Much like playing DND or making movies... or writing.

And nvrbeenwthagirl has a horrible B.O. problem. zorro

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
They sure as hell like to argue in my threads tho. F U
Like they do in every thread here?

no comment i see

Originally posted by rotiart
Your thread?

I think these threads belong more to guys like Tron and Paolo.

and as for making it exciting.. theres nothing exciting about it. You get off on being universally panned as having biased viewpoints...

as far as "your threads" you constantly bring up the dc vs. marvel arguement... so we go in there to watch as you drop the soap for us.

I don't really go in there to argue the threads. I just like watching you get torn to shreds now. its a new hobby of mine. Much like playing DND or making movies... or writing.
hey what ever get's you going.

Originally posted by batdude123
You, sir, smell. zorro

God... all this time I thought he had a hernia problem... So THATS what was sticking outta there...shit

Originally posted by rotiart
God... all this time I thought he had a hernia problem... So THATS what was sticking outta there...shit

Yep, he's mad about it too. zorro

Honestly, I think Spidey KOing Firelord with a speed-blitz is more in line with continuity than She-Hulk hurting her hand on Surfer. Spidey's hurt many upper level bricks with wear-downs before. How often does a Herald sit there and take a hit from someone like She-Hulk unaffected?


Again, how are people saying Wonder Girl is faster? She didn't even seem faster than Ravager. Her straight line speed may be greater, but her combat speed most assuredely is not. Spidey's much faster in battle. His webbing's also held people in her league of strength before. As for Artemis, she's nowhere near the New God Kanto in skill. Spidey has experience facing more skilled foes. IMO, Namor is more skilled than WG.

Originally posted by lando005
no comment i see


Originally posted by rotiart
venom and carnage.. fire and sonics.. ie.. PIS.

spiderman beating firelord... um... she-hulk almost broke her hand trying to punch surfer... and she is easily leagues stronger than spiderman... and both being heralds would have equivalent durabilities...

SP vs FL is PIS. if spiderman had the unipower... or venom suit.. i could see it... but he nearly breaks his hands hitting guys like rhino and hulk.. its pis that he would hit a more durable guy and win the fight more easily.


all like bran said all of the examples you pointed out are either pis or smvsfl which are not aloud on this forum.

What about all the other high tier bricks Spider man beats? Hell most of his bad guys are stronger than him. Cassie just doesn't have the concentration to beat such a well experienced foe like spiderman. Hell we haven't even seen cassie use a sword enough to know if the sword is goign to do her any good.

spiderman and hulk
spiderman and juggernaut spiderman and zarthros spiderman vs the mad thinker robot spiderman vs hobgoblin 2211 my point is spidy's been outhclass plenty of times before yet he's still breathin

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Honestly, I think Spidey KOing Firelord with a speed-blitz is more in line with continuity than She-Hulk hurting her hand on Surfer. Spidey's hurt many upper level bricks with wear-downs before. How often does a Herald sit there and take a hit from someone like She-Hulk unaffected?


Again, how are people saying Wonder Girl is faster? She didn't even seem faster than Ravager. Her straight line speed may be greater, but her combat speed most assuradely is not. Spidey's much faster in battle. His webbing's also held people in her league of strength before. As for Artemis, she's nowhere near the New God Kanto in skill. Spidey has experience facing more skilled foes. IMO, Namor is more skilled than WG.



She wasn't even trying with against Ravager if she used her full speed against her ravger would have died in a second.

Pre oyl she had been shown to fly a little ove rthe speed of sound
when she got her power boost Ares told her that she would be faster and stronger than she evr was before.

Meaning alot faster then Spiderman

Anyone who can stalemate Superboy and manhandle superman robots ( she manged to defelect heat vison at point blank range against the robot which Donna troy wasn't even able to d by the way) can very eaislly beat spiderman.

i think experiance is a huge factor here she could have been trained by every hero in dc does that mean she's always going to fight just like she was told? no her personality is still a factor here and we all know how irritating spidy can get in a fight it wasnt part of his gameplan in the begining but spidys got a way of getting to people and causing them to make mistakes

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What about all the other high tier bricks Spider man beats? Hell most of his bad guys are stronger than him. Cassie just doesn't have the concentration to beat such a well experienced foe like spiderman. Hell we haven't even seen cassie use a sword enough to know if the sword is goign to do her any good.

she wastrained by artemis and diana both expert swordmasters you really think they didn't teach anything about sword wielding.
and concetration
she's been able to keep her emotions in check while fighting he rown boyfriend.

Wondergirl isn't a inexperienced hero shes been in the game for awhile.

Originally posted by lando005
i think experiance is a huge factor here she could have been trained by every hero in dc does that mean she's always going to fight just like she was told? no her personality is still a factor here and we all know how irritating spidy can get in a fight it wasnt part of his gameplan in the begining but spidys got a way of getting to people and causing them to make mistakes

he won't have time to annoy her she is way faster then him.
it will be over before he even notices it

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Honestly, I think Spidey KOing Firelord with a speed-blitz is more in line with continuity than She-Hulk hurting her hand on Surfer. Spidey's hurt many upper level bricks with wear-downs before. How often does a Herald sit there and take a hit from someone like She-Hulk unaffected?


Again, how are people saying Wonder Girl is faster? She didn't even seem faster than Ravager. Her straight line speed may be greater, but her combat speed most assuredely is not. Spidey's much faster in battle. His webbing's also held people in her league of strength before. As for Artemis, she's nowhere near the New God Kanto in skill. Spidey has experience facing more skilled foes. IMO, Namor is more skilled than WG.

Didn't Venom and Rhino both break through the webbing before... and doctor octopus.. whos arms are only in the 20 ton range... cassie is so much stronger than that.. i imagine spiderman fighting cassie to him fighting a rhino... who was of average intelligence... with some battle savy.. .. but can also fly... and has that lightning lasso...

She loops spiderman one time with luck and shocks him straight to hell.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
she wastrained by artemis and diana both expert swordmasters you really think they didn't teach anything about sword wielding.
and concetration
she's been able to keep her emotions in check while fighting he rown boyfriend.

Wondergirl isn't a inexperienced hero shes been in the game for awhile.

She's great. But she isn't Spiderman. He's been in all kinds of cosmic conflicts, and fighting guys who can give thor a run for years. Cassie isn't so invulnerable that a good blow to the face won't knock her out. I'm going by her showings. Since I"m the DC fan. And I know she can get rash. and since she hasn't been shown using a sword,i'm not gonna go on what i think she can do. Especially since I don't even remember seeing herbeing trained with a sword.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
she wastrained by artemis and diana both expert swordmasters you really think they didn't teach anything about sword wielding.
and concetration
she's been able to keep her emotions in check while fighting he rown boyfriend.

Wondergirl isn't a inexperienced hero shes been in the game for awhile.
and to you that means an automatic win over spidy?

Originally posted by rotiart
Didn't Venom and Rhino both break through the webbing before... and doctor octopus.. whos arms are only in the 20 ton range... cassie is so much stronger than that.. i imagine spiderman fighting cassie to him fighting a rhino... who was of average intelligence... with some battle savy.. .. but can also fly... and has that lightning lasso...

She loops spiderman one time with luck and shocks him straight to hell.

Elektro has done so much more. Spidey is not going to loose to cassie. He is smart for one. He knows stuff. And cassie has just to make one stupid move and spidey with his spider sense will senseit and use her momentum against her. It's how wonder woman beat the juggernaut in the access cross over. They had to use his own power against him.

Originally posted by rotiart
Didn't Venom and Rhino both break through the webbing before... and doctor octopus.. whos arms are only in the 20 ton range... cassie is so much stronger than that.. i imagine spiderman fighting cassie to him fighting a rhino... who was of average intelligence... with some battle savy.. .. but can also fly... and has that lightning lasso...

She loops spiderman one time with luck and shocks him straight to hell.

it probably won't even be that hard for her to lasso him given how fast she flies.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
it probably won't even be that hard for her to lasso him given how fast she flies.
and we all know spidy looses to anyone more powerful than him

The webbing's been broken several times before, but it depends how much he uses and how fast it dries. It's held those such as The Wrecker, The Blob, Mr. Hyde, and The Rhino before. The Thing, She-Hulk, Thunderbolt w/ full Norn power, etc. had trouble breaking it. Namor once stated he can't break it.


Originally posted by Devil Lance


She wasn't even trying with against Ravager if she used her full speed against her ravger would have died in a second.


What evidence do you have of this speed other than flight or deflecting bullets? Because Thor and Surfer have both of those, and Spidey's been shown to DWARF them in combat speed.

Additionally, given that she was threatening to poke Ravager's other eye out, I doubt she was especially "holding back" her speed.


Originally posted by Devil Lance

Pre oyl she had been shown to fly a little ove rthe speed of sound
when she got her power boost Ares told her that she would be faster and stronger than she evr was before.

Meaning alot faster then Spiderman


Come on now. Spidey's outmanuevered people that fly past light speed. While running or flying speed arguably should translate into combat speed, that's not always the case in comics.

Unless you have a SINGLE reference of her easily dodging, blitzing, etc. someone with significant super-speed, there's no way you can act like that's part of her power-set in a fight.


Originally posted by Devil Lance

Anyone who can stalemate Superboy


Spidey's record against Namor is better than her record against Superboy. Heck, Spidey's record against Thor is better than her record against Kon.


Originally posted by Devil Lance
and manhandle superman robots ( she manged to defelect heat vison at point blank range against the robot which Donna troy wasn't even able to d by the way) can very eaislly beat spiderman.


Those Superman robots varied greatly in power. The ones in The Insiders arc were getting owned left and right by everyone they fought. If you want a similar reference, Spidey owned a bunch of Mindless Ones around ASM#500. Do you really want me to list the major superhumans Spidey's beaten? Comparing their best fight performances works deeply in Spidey's favor (partially due to his greater number of appearances, of course)

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
She's great. But she isn't Spiderman. He's been in all kinds of cosmic conflicts, and fighting guys who can give thor a run for years. Cassie isn't so invulnerable that a good blow to the face won't knock her out. I'm going by her showings. Since I"m the DC fan. And I know she can get rash. and since she hasn't been shown using a sword,i'm not gonna go on what i think she can do. Especially since I don't even remember seeing herbeing trained with a sword.

Your the DC fan

and I don't know anything about DC right.....


so she can take a one hit from superboy prime and is still not knocked out.
http://img321.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00302jy.jpg
But one good punch from spidey will knock her out.

Thanks for enlightening me

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Your the DC fan

and I don't know anything about DC right.....


so she can take a one hit from superboy prime and is still not knocked out.
http://img321.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00302jy.jpg
But one good punch from spidey will knock her out.

Thanks for enlightening me

That's pis. Not even Superman took any punches from a full powered SBP. He was knocking people's heads off by mistake. He sent black adam in orbit with a punch. Cassie is just too good of a character to let be killed. that is the only reason her head is still on her shoulders.

Nice!

spierman's dodged speed demon many times before as for the superman robots spidy beat a robot created by the mad thinker that beat both the ff and the avengers

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
The webbing's been broken several times before, but it depends how much he uses and how fast it dries. It's held those such as The Wrecker, The Blob, Mr. Hyde, and The Rhino before. The Thing, She-Hulk, Thunderbolt w/ full Norn power, etc. had trouble breaking it. Namor once stated he can't break it.





What evidence do you have of this speed other than flight or deflecting bullets? Because Thor and Surfer have both of those, and Spidey's been shown to DWARF them in combat speed.

Additionally, given that she was threatening to poke Ravager's other eye out, I doubt she was especially "holding back" her speed.





Come on now. Spidey's outmanuevered people that fly past light speed. While running or flying speed arguably should translate into combat speed, that's not always the case in comics.

Unless you have a SINGLE reference of her easily dodging, blitzing, etc. someone with significant super-speed, there's no way you can act like that's part of her power-set in a fight.





Spidey's record against Namor is better than her record against Superboy. Heck, Spidey's record against Thor is better than her record against Kon.





Those Superman robots varied greatly in power. The ones in The Insiders arc were getting owned left and right by everyone they fought. If you want a similar reference, Spidey owned a bunch of Mindless Ones around ASM#500. Do you really want me to list the major superhumans Spidey's beaten? Comparing their best fight performances works deeply in Spidey's favor (partially due to his greater number of appearances, of course)

(partially to everyone jobbing to him of course)

in forum rule sit state sveryone fights to their best of their ablities menaing WG will use her super speed.

Now the big difference between these two si taht Spideys fights against people like Naamor and Thor are looked upon a smvsfl.

While all of Wg's battlle feats have been shown to be accurate innterpetaions of how the fights would go.

So comparring the two's battle feats isn't really that good of an idea for you

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That's pis. Not even Superman took any punches from a full powered SBP. He was knocking people's heads off by mistake. He sent black adam in orbit with a punch. Cassie is just too good of a character to let be killed. that is the only reason her head is still on her shoulders.

and he never even punched her. He pushed her head into conners. He wasn't even trying to kill her. You can tell by the fight. He coudl have killed her instantly on the spot if he wanted to. Unless you think she's stronger than all theo gl's who got killed?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That's pis. Not even Superman took any punches from a full powered SBP. He was knocking people's heads off by mistake. He sent black adam in orbit with a punch. Cassie is just too good of a character to let be killed. that is the only reason her head is still on her shoulders.
Your right he didn't because Superman never fought a full powered SBP.

The only time he fought him was on Mojo and that was when the had both been depowered a great deal.


Also the scan I showed of sbp hitting Wg was after he ha djust though Martian Manhunter, Powergirl, Black Adam, Lady Quark, Nightshade, and the Ray at thhe same time.
So he was obviously weakened and fatigued.
However even tired as he was still very strong so that feat should not be regarded as pis.

How can something be "SvFL" if it's consistently happened since the character's creation? It's not like Spidey's the only one who does it either. People at his power level or lower hurt or even defeat upper level opponents all the time. Comics simply aren't realistic when it comes to converting "lift strength" to "fight strength." That's why Spidey comes off as about 10X stronger than someone like Captain America, as opposed to 100X stronger.

Besides, if you use that logic, Spidey "jobs" whenever he faces martial artists. The way I see it, if one class of beings can consistently hurt another, it's valid.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
How can something be "SvFL" if it's consistently happened since the character's creation? It's not like Spidey's the only one who does it either. People at his power level or lower hurt or even defeat upper level opponents all the time. Comics simply aren't realistic when it comes to converting "lift strength" to "fight strength." That's why Spidey comes off as about 10X stronger than someone like Captain America, as opposed to 100X stronger.

Besides, if you use that logic, Spidey "jobs" whenever he faces martial artists. The way I see it, if one class of beings can consistently hurt another, it's valid.

If a ten year old hits me with all his might in my face, it's gonna hurt. If he catches me off guard and hits me with something, he may be able to knock me out. Spiderman can win this.

Superman actually did shrug off a punch from a full power SBP as he and Kal-L carried him across galaxies. But then, Spidey's taken hits from The Juggernaut without being KOed. And I actually think Wonder Girl WAS KOed after that backhand from SBP, given she wasn't seen for several more pages.

Mind you, one hit from Spidey's not KOing her. But a speed-blitz from him can.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If a ten year old hits me with all his might in my face, it's gonna hurt. If he catches me off guard and hits me with something, he may be able to knock me out. Spiderman can win this.

WUSS.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Superman actually did shrug off a punch from a full power SBP as he and Kal-L carried him across galaxies. But then, Spidey's taken hits from The Juggernaut without being KOed. And I actually think Wonder Girl WAS KOed after that backhand from SBP, given she wasn't seen for several more pages.

Mind you, one hit from Spidey's not KOing her. But a speed-blitz from him can.

Yeah, he's going to speedblitz somebody who's faster than he is. Wonder Girl ftw.

Originally posted by batdude123
WUSS.
Co-sign.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
and he never even punched her. He pushed her head into conners. He wasn't even trying to kill her. You can tell by the fight. He coudl have killed her instantly on the spot if he wanted to. Unless you think she's stronger than all theo gl's who got killed?
well for one thing SBP didn't punch the gL's he use his ice breath to freeze them then he blasted through them with his faster than light speed.
http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00180yo.jpg
thats alot diffrent than what he did to wg
http://img321.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00302jy.jpg

so what your saying really isn't an apt comparisson.

Originally posted by batdude123
WUSS.

I'm just trying to illustrate that even tho cassie out classes spidey in strength, she can still lose. I don't even think she's class 100 yet. Cuz She got her booty handed to her by Giganta.

You think a ten year old can knock you out if he sneaks up on you and catches you by surprise?

Is it a ninja ten year old?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If a ten year old hits me with all his might in my face, it's gonna hurt. If he catches me off guard and hits me with something, he may be able to knock me out. Spiderman can win this.
by that logic spidy shoulda been dead a few hundred times over....funny he's still alive and tickin

You guys are all going off of power alone. how many times do people say thor can win battle's not only becuz of power but skill. Spider is Waaaaaaaaaay more skilled and experienced than Wonder Girl. She has a bad attitude. She rushes into battles. She's just outclassed in this match when it comes to skills, battle savy, and experience.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You think a ten year old can knock you out if he sneaks up on you and catches you by surprise?

Is it a ninja ten year old?

NICE! hysterical2

Originally posted by Devil Lance
well for one thing SBP didn't punch the gL's he use his ice breath to freeze them then he blasted through them with his faster than light speed.
http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00180yo.jpg
That's a horrible showing for the GL Corps. Dying via ice breath?

That would give a newb the impression that Iceman can take down a few GL's himself.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You think a ten year old can knock you out if he sneaks up on you and catches you by surprise?

Is it a ninja ten year old?

IF the ten year old has something in his hand like a brick, bat, bottle, iron, or something yes. I said if they had something in thierhand. Spider is strong enough to pick up something to knock cassie out. A mail box, a car, a light pole.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Superman actually did shrug off a punch from a full power SBP as he and Kal-L carried him across galaxies. But then, Spidey's taken hits from The Juggernaut without being KOed. And I actually think Wonder Girl WAS KOed after that backhand from SBP, given she wasn't seen for several more pages.

Mind you, one hit from Spidey's not KOing her. But a speed-blitz from him can.

after geting her face squeesed , getting slammed into superboy, and then blocking a hit from him

After all that she was for mere moments ten she got blasted by the explosion from the two s-boys being slammed into the twoer.

Which didn't kncok her out either.

She was even lifting through pile after ple of debris moments after the explosion to find superboy.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
skills, battle savy, and experience.

But not where it REALLY matters. no

She's got him beat in versatility, power, strength, durability, etc.

And skills? She's got him beat in that too.

whoops sorry miss read your quote

Originally posted by batdude123
NICE! hysterical2 I do believe that was two zings in one. I should frame it and put it on my wall.

Wonder Girl wins.

Originally posted by Accel
That's a horrible showing for the GL Corps. Dying via ice breath?

That would give a newb the impression that Iceman can take down a few GL's himself.

SPB is a precrisis Superman. He is beyond logic. his ice breath prolly was like ice man times a thousand. He used it to put out red star. who was channeling solar energy. I wonder how come all the good evil bricks are from krypton. DC needs a new planet to get it's bricks from.

Originally posted by batdude123
But not where it REALLY matters. no

She's got him beat in versatility, power, strength, durability, etc.

And skills? She's got him beat in that too.
the only point i want to make clear is he's gon up against more versital powerrful stonger and durable people befor and he's come up on top he's way more skilled and experianced than her but just because it's wondergirl he loses? how can a person who's beaten people of the same level as wg befor all of a sudden not have any chance against her? answer me that

Originally posted by batdude123
But not where it REALLY matters. no

She's got him beat in versatility, power, strength, durability, etc.

And skills? She's got him beat in that too.
Yep

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
SPB is a precrisis Superman. He is beyond logic. his ice breath prolly was like ice man times a thousand. He used it to put out red star. who was channeling solar energy. I wonder how come all the good evil bricks are from krypton. DC needs a new planet to get it's bricks from.
He lost all that Pre-Crisis mojo when he entered the Earth 1 universe. I can't even picture Pre-Crisis Superman freezing Hal Jordon with his breath either.

Originally posted by lando005
the only point i want to make clear is he's gon up against more versital powerrful stonger and durable people befor and he's come up on top he's way more skilled and experianced than her but just because it's wondergirl he loses? how can a person who's beaten people of the same level as wg befor all of a sudden not have any chance against her? answer me that

Let me know if the people he faced had a lasso which contained the lightning of Zues.

Originally posted by Accel
He lost all that Pre-Crisis mojo when he entered the Earth 1 universe. I can't even picture Pre-Crisis Superman freezing Hal Jordon with his breath either.

I dont believe he lost his precrisis mojo. Cuz if he was just a regular superman type, he wouldnt have been able to punk black adam the way he did. Superman could have never done that to BA. SPB still had his precrisis strength. He was moving planets around and stuff for alexander luthor. He still has his mojo. I"m sure he'll be busting out of the gl prison sometime soon and wreaking havok with those pre crisis fist of his. What I dont' understand tho, is if Infinite crisis happened, how come SBP and Power Girl Still remember the other worlds? and so does donna troy?

Originally posted by Accel
He lost all that Pre-Crisis mojo when he entered the Earth 1 universe. I can't even picture Pre-Crisis Superman freezing Hal Jordon with his breath either.

Pre-Crisis Superman's feats were loonier than Jordan's.

Originally posted by batdude123
Let me know if the people he faced had a lasso which contained the lightning of Zues.

it's not even full power lighting. bah. Electro can do more with his lighting.

Originally posted by batdude123
Let me know if the people he faced had a lasso which contained the lightning of Zues.
what thor's hammer isnt enought for you?

Originally posted by lando005
what thor's hammer isnt enought for you?

Wasn't that Masterson Thor that he speedblitzed? Anyway, Thor wasn't fighting to his full potential against Spider-man in that fight. Read the rules. That goes under the "Spider-man vs. Firelord" rule.

Originally posted by batdude123
Wasn't that Masterson Thor that he speedblitzed? Anyway, Thor wasn't fighting to his full potential against Spider-man in that fight. Read the rules. That goes under the "Spider-man vs. Firelord" rule.

So is Cassie even close to Masterson Thor level anyway?

Originally posted by batdude123
Wasn't that Masterson Thor that he speedblitzed? Anyway, Thor wasn't fighting to his full potential against Spider-man in that fight. Read the rules. That goes under the "Spider-man vs. Firelord" rule.
ummm that rule said for one time deals right.... spidy's crossed paths with the thundergod plety of times befor i could use the spiderman hulk example if you want seeing how every other example i give you want striken from the evidence record or is evey opponent spidy's ever faced more powerful than him fall under the spiderman firelord rule.........................and by the way SvsFL is WAY more belive able than o lets say.... squirrel girl vs thanos so i dont think it's that far out of the question

Originally posted by Soleran
So is Cassie even close to Masterson Thor level anyway?

Not really. She's mid-tier.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I dont believe he lost his precrisis mojo. Cuz if he was just a regular superman type, he wouldnt have been able to punk black adam the way he did. Superman could have never done that to BA. SPB still had his precrisis strength. He was moving planets around and stuff for alexander luthor. He still has his mojo. I"m sure he'll be busting out of the gl prison sometime soon and wreaking havok with those pre crisis fist of his. What I dont' understand tho, is if Infinite crisis happened, how come SBP and Power Girl Still remember the other worlds? and so does donna troy?
Moving around planets doesn't really equate to powerful enough to freeze a group of GLs who fly through space on a daily basis.

When I say he lost that mojo, I mean although he was powerful, I doubt today's writers would have him blowing a star out.
Originally posted by batdude123
Pre-Crisis Superman's feats were loonier than Jordan's.
Which still doesn't really justify what happened to the Corps.

Originally posted by batdude123
Not really. She's mid-tier.

meh I would say upper mid tier with her recent upgrade

Originally posted by lando005
ummm that rule said for one time deals right.... spidy's crossed paths with the thundergod plety of times befor i could use the spiderman hulk example if you want seeing how every other example i give you want striken from the evidence record or is evey opponent spidy's ever faced more powerful than him fall under the spiderman firelord rule.........................and by the way SvsFL is WAY more belive able than o lets say.... squirrel girl vs thanos so i dont think it's that far out of the question

Show me (other than the one with Masterson Thor) the fights Spider-man has had with Thor that you claim. And it's rediculous to use Thor as a reference. You're talking about a person who goes up against skyfather-level beings like it was his job. His reflexes are MUCH greater than even Spider-man's are, so that IS pretty much PIS. Spider-man vs. Hulk. That is more believable. However, even though Spider-man was able to last against the Hulk (which he is definitely capable of doing), the WAY in which he defeated him was rediculous. A truck fell on him and he was KO'd. We're talking about a monster who takes nukes at ground zero w/o getting too bruised up. And the fight with Juggernaut. Please. Do I REALLY have to say anything about this one? How is a little cement going to stop Juggernaut's forward momentum? Listen, I know you want to use Spider-man's high showings in this fight. That's completely understandable, however, keep it within reason. It's one thing to refer to Spider-man's high showings, but it's another thing to refer to Spider-man's high showings when it completely and utterly takes a DUMP on the other characters showings. That's exactly why we have that rule in affect here. Anyway, Wonder Girl logically wins this one.

Wow a vs thread with WG in it goes over 100 posts
I guess its the spidey factor

Originally posted by batdude123
Show me (other than the one with Masterson Thor) the fights Spider-man has had with Thor that you claim. And it's rediculous to use Thor as a reference. You're talking about a person who goes up against skyfather-level beings like it was his job. His reflexes are MUCH greater than even Spider-man's are, so that IS pretty much PIS. Spider-man vs. Hulk. That is more believable. However, even though Spider-man was able to last against the Hulk (which he is definitely capable of doing), the WAY in which he defeated him was rediculous. A truck fell on him and he was KO'd. We're talking about a monster who takes nukes at ground zero w/o getting too bruised up. And the fight with Juggernaut. Please. Do I REALLY have to say anything about this one? How is a little cement going to stop Juggernaut's forward momentum? Listen, I know you want to use Spider-man's high showings in this fight. That's completely understandable, however, keep it within reason. It's one thing to refer to Spider-man's high showings, but it's another thing to refer to Spider-man's high showings when it completely and utterly takes a DUMP on the other characters showings. That's exactly why we have that rule in affect here. Anyway, Wonder Girl logically wins this one.
i'm not saying spidy would win 100 precent of the time i'm just making it known that just because the opponent is more powerful than spiderman doesnt mean that he's naturally gonna loose your looking at ability too much and forgettin how these charatersactually fair against the odds you have to admit that spidy can and has beaten people of her level before so why is she any diffrent?

Originally posted by Devil Lance
Wow a vs thread with WG in it goes over 100 posts
I guess its the spidey factor

It's very sad, indeed. Usually, Spidey fans are semi-sensible.

Originally posted by lando005
i'm not saying spidy would win 100 precent of the time i'm just making it known that just because the opponent is more powerful than spiderman doesnt mean that he's naturally gonna loose your looking at ability too much and forgettin how these charatersactually fair against the odds you have to admit that spidy can and has beaten people of her level before so why is she any diffrent?
smvsfl fights where characters do not fight to the best of teir abilties are not consdierd cannon in this forum

Originally posted by lando005
i'm not saying spidy would win 100 precent of the time i'm just making it known that just because the opponent is more powerful than spiderman doesnt mean that he's naturally gonna loose your looking at ability too much and forgettin how these charatersactually fair against the odds you have to admit that spidy can and has beaten people of her level before so why is she any diffrent?

What you're saying is true. That doesn't mean Spider-man would take the majority here.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
It's very sad, indeed. Usually, Spidey fans are semi-sensible.
Well to be fair, half of it was for insulting nverbeenwthagrl.

Originally posted by Accel
Well to be fair, half of it was for insulting nverbeenwthagrl.

HERE HERE!!!!

Originally posted by Devil Lance
smvsfl fights where characters do not fight to the best of teir abilties are not consdierd cannon in this forum
not every fight is a smvsfl stop looking at it like that the man can be someone better than him

Originally posted by batdude123
What you're saying is true. That doesn't mean Spider-man would take the majority here.
not saying he will, just pointing out the fact that he can win against her

Originally posted by Accel
Well to be fair, half of it was for insulting nverbeenwthagrl.

True!

she does not have super speed (such as reflexes, hitting, running and such)

Spiderman has much experance fighting someone in her strength range (I belive she's as strong as classic Rogue, about in the 50 tons range) look at the list of people he's defeated and then look at hers. hell he regularly beats Titana (95 tons) and Carnage (65 tons) and cassandra would be no diffrent .

Originally posted by complexbrother
she does not have super speed (such as reflexes, hitting, running and such)

Spiderman has much experance fighting someone in her strength range (I belive she's as strong as classic Rogue, about in the 50 tons range) look at the list of people he's defeated and then look at hers. hell he regularly beats Titana (95 tons) and Carnage (65 tons) and cassandra would be no diffrent .



Wgs is in the mid 100 class range she blocks bullets with ease , and can fly above the speed of sound.
She wins

Both Thunderball and Thor -- beings with no combat super-speed -- have blocked bullets. Spidey has greater combat speed than Thor or Surfer, both of whom can fly well beyond light-speed.


Flight speed does not equate to combat speed. Until you come up with one instance of Cassie showing clear combat speed, claiming hers is greater is silly. Spidey has easily outmanuevered beings who've deflected bullets and who can fly (as well as manuever) at speeds much faster than Cass can reach.

Spidey also KOed Thor in WOS#105 by using the momentum of Thor and some other heroes against each other. In fact, his wed-sheild blocked a shot from Mjolnor in that issue.

Spidey also speed-blitzed the Eric Masterson Thor and nearly KOed him before he saved himself with lightning in Thor#448. But I know these are both gonna get written off as "SvFL." No matter how consistent his ability to hang with these beings is.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Spidey also KOed Thor in WOS#105 by using the momentum of Thor and some other heroes against each other. In fact, his wed-sheild blocked a shot from Mjolnor in that issue.

Spidey also speed-blitzed the Eric Masterson Thor and nearly KOed him before he saved himself with lightning in Thor#448. But I know these are both gonna get written off as "SvFL." No matter how consistent his ability to hang with these beings is.

I been saying forver that he could just use her momentum against her. She just isn't ready to fight spiderman.

Curious, nverbeenwthagirl, based on your screen name, does the fact that you're actually going against a DC character for once have anything to do with the fact that it's a girl?

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Curious, nverbeenwthagirl, based on your screen name, does the fact that you're actually going against a DC character for once have anything to do with the fact that it's a girl?

Not really. I love all WW characters to DEATh. She just can't beat Spiderman to me. Besides I think Superman should loose to thor. Not cuz of strength, but becuz thor is magical and a better hand to hand fighter. I think marvel characters should win when it's logical. and the same with DC characters. I'm a queer, but I wouldn't vote against a girl character just becuz of it. I voted for psylock vs. night wing.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Spidey also KOed Thor in WOS#105 by using the momentum of Thor and some other heroes against each other. In fact, his wed-sheild blocked a shot from Mjolnor in that issue.

Spidey also speed-blitzed the Eric Masterson Thor and nearly KOed him before he saved himself with lightning in Thor#448. But I know these are both gonna get written off as "SvFL." No matter how consistent his ability to hang with these beings is.

No no... good work. I actually didn't know these instances you refer to.

You have to understand I'm going by the spiderman references I know, and the highest durability character offhand he's fought I can think of is hulk, juggernaut and rhino... of those 3, his attacks have very little effect.. still these could be considered low end showings... while yours would be considered high end.

If you have any more references bring them up. You could eventually overturn the spiderman vs Firelord as PIS... and we'd have to eventually use something else as our example.

I generally think of pis stories... like the FF4 comic with Thing sitting in a bar, talking to electro (though he didn't know it at the time) and spiderman was fighting hulk... and got hulk to run into a building... collapsing it... and the building... falling on hulk.. knocked hulk out...

Thats an example of PIS... as its been shown hulk's come out of worst hits... example taking a full on nova blast from human torch and manhandling thing like it was nothing in a different recent comic.

I'd say the firelord vs spiderman is still PIS... cause firelord just stood there, and took every hit and got knocked out... saying that a guy that can withstand the heat and gravity of the center of the sun... gets knocked out by a guy that has problems lifting vans...
and does nothing against it...

Cannonball vs Gladiator could also be considered PIS. Cannonball was supposed to have an invulnerable shield around his entire body.. which allowed him also great speeds... so it was "plausible" he might not be defeated by Glads... but as for defeating glads.. meh... and yet in recent c omics... now the invulnerability doesn't appear to go around his whole body... or he still gets hit by anyone.. and goes down... meh... hi/low showings...

Anyone got scans of those spiderman high showings?

Oh, LOL. I thought your name was meant to be read as "I can't get any", not "I'm out in the open"

Originally posted by rotiart
No no... good work. I actually didn't know these instances you refer to.

You have to understand I'm going by the spiderman references I know, and the highest durability character offhand he's fought I can think of is hulk, juggernaut and rhino... of those 3, his attacks have very little effect.. still these could be considered low end showings... while yours would be considered high end.


Juggernaut for most of his career was treated as completely invulnerable to physical force. Spidey has hurt and in fact beaten The Hulk before. He came up even with the Grey Hulk. The Rhino? He's beaten Rhino to a PULP before, in SSM#191. He also KOed Rhino with one bad arm, while exhausted back in ASM#280.



Originally posted by rotiart
If you have any more references bring them up. You could eventually overturn the spiderman vs Firelord as PIS... and we'd have to eventually use something else as our example.


I did this at CBR once before and got banned for it. But basically, Spidey has showings against Firelord, The Silver Surfer, Thor, Namor (several times), Wrecker, Thunderball w/ full Norn power, Titanium Man, Starhawk, Crimson Dynamo, She-Hulk, Thing, Sasquatch, Blastaar, Iron Man, etc. that prove he can consistently affect people around class 100 in durability, with enough hits.


Originally posted by rotiart
I generally think of pis stories... like the FF4 comic with Thing sitting in a bar, talking to electro (though he didn't know it at the time) and spiderman was fighting hulk... and got hulk to run into a building... collapsing it... and the building... falling on hulk.. knocked hulk out...

Thats an example of PIS... as its been shown hulk's come out of worst hits... example taking a full on nova blast from human torch and manhandling thing like it was nothing in a different recent comic.


Sure, although the thing is that different writers feel top tiers have different power levels. One writer may want to see top tiers shoving planets around, while another may prefer they struggle with buildings. I think it's more of the hiearchy presented that matters.



Originally posted by rotiart
I'd say the firelord vs spiderman is still PIS... cause firelord just stood there, and took every hit and got knocked out... saying that a guy that can withstand the heat and gravity of the center of the sun... gets knocked out by a guy that has problems lifting vans...
and does nothing against it...


Spidey's battered people like Thor 2, Surfer, and Namor nearly unconscious before. The reason he did nothing against it is because he got caught off guard and Spidey launched a desperate speed-blitz. He lacked the time to mount a proper offense. In a rematch, he'd know better, and stop it with energy powers as Thor 2 did.


Originally posted by rotiart

Anyone got scans of those spiderman high showings?


Well, I've lost track of most that I've posted over the years. Here are some scans that other people posted which were easy to find:

Spidey vs. symbiote-possessed Surfer:


http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43119qq.gif
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43129dd.gif

Spidey brutalized Rhino:

http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/06a9756c96.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/b70e25c9a0.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/145b4bbd5c.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/c61707efbd.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/e1d6c51287.jpg

Spidey vs. Thor 2:

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44718.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44801.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44802.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44803.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44804.jpg
http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v44/guyverjay/Thor_44805.jpg

Spidey vs. Namor:

http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21114dc.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21123ao.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21131qy.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21149ug.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21158tl.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21165wx.gif


Spidey owns Titania back when she had respect:


http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25ju.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=331wz.jpg


Takes a pounding from Juggy:

http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spidermanjuggy7ec.jpg



Some of the others, I'd have to DL. I do have a scanner, but I'm missing the chord to link it to my computer. I'll have to get a new one soon.

I could provide # if that helps.

The hell?!

Didn't realize this would be so popular.

I haven't had a thread this successful in a very long time....

If Spidey goes into that hit and run/dodge tactic and trusting his Spider Sense I see WG getting her ass handed to her.

For the record, I like Wonder Girl too. I find her much more interesting than Wonder Woman. I just don't think she had the skill and experience neccessary to win a majority, at least pre-OYL.

Experience-wise, she's significantly lower than Spider-Man. She's faced gods, the underworld and cosmic beings since she was about 11 years old. She's seventeen now.

Skillwise, that's debatable. She's constantly been trained not only by Artemis, or Diana or Hipployta but ALL the Amazons. She got the Amazon training treatment and they are HARDCORE. In one issue they threw poor Cassie into a pit full of Harpies (her mother had touched her earlier thus depriving her of her powers for a short time) with only a dagger to defend herself. She's certainly no slouch when it comes to combat. As an Amazon, she's cool, cold and calculating in combat and unlike Diana she doesn't hold back from the start.

I would give Cassie the win 7/10. She certainly doesn't possess the experience of Spider-Man, but she's too strong and her durability has stood up to gods and a PC Kryptonian. Spidey will get the majority of the hits in (many will be deflected by Cassie's superior speed; he's fast but Cassie can deflect lasers at point blank range...) but Cassie only needs to connect (and despite his Spider-Sense as well as reflexes, some WILL connect due to her faster than sound blows...) to defeat him.

The webbing will be a major annoyance to Cassie though....

Everyone handles lasers at point blank range. Spidey's dodged automated lasers at point blank range without his spider-sense. Spidey's actually fought so fast that people couldn't see him. I don't see her fighting Speed Demon and coming out even speed-wise as Spidey did in Thunderbolts recently.

As for skill, I was mainly referring to tactical skills, like Cap. Because of Spidey's insane combat speed, she'd have to manuever him into most hits the way Cap and Deathstroke do. It's happened to him before, but not that often. I tend to give Spidey good odds against bricks because of this.


Anyway, I think it's pointless at this point to debate majorities in regards to Spidey vs. anyone with above class 50 strength. It doesn't really bother me that most people will always say any class 90+ brick beats him. I'm just pointing out that he has an established history of hurting and holding his own with this level of foe.

dispite what SOME people my say spider-man is capable of beating class 100 fighters the firelord fight as unlikely as it was, was possible mind you if there was ever a rematch firelord would burn him soo bad there wont be any ashes but it's already been proven 99 times out of 100 spider-man CAN take down a class 100 and that's not pis

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Everyone handles lasers at point blank range. Spidey's dodged automated lasers at point blank range without his spider-sense. Spidey's actually fought so fast that people couldn't see him. I don't see her fighting Speed Demon and coming out even speed-wise as Spidey did in Thunderbolts recently.

As for skill, I was mainly referring to tactical skills, like Cap. Because of Spidey's insane combat speed, she'd have to manuever him into most hits the way Cap and Deathstroke do. It's happened to him before, but not that often. I tend to give Spidey good odds against bricks because of this.


Anyway, I think it's pointless at this point to debate majorities in regards to Spidey vs. anyone with above class 50 strength. It doesn't really bother me that most people will always say any class 90+ brick beats him. I'm just pointing out that he has an established history of hurting and holding his own with this level of foe.
i agree with you but some people tend to think that he cant beat anyone stronger than him

Originally posted by Devil Lance
smvsfl fights where characters do not fight to the best of teir abilties are not consdierd cannon in this forum
so your saying people like the hulk, absorbing man, and hyde also held back on spider-man?

Powerlevel wise... when people like shehulk... can't even hurt a guy like Surfer... but spiderman can... and his strength is 2 or 3 tiers below she hulks... Then you start to say... wtf?

That She-Hulk thing was seriously off. Vision, Thing, Ganymede, Midnight Sun, Super-Skrull, Dracula, Iron Man, etc. have hurt Surfer just fine.

Spider-Man, in fact, knocked Surfer down (though didn't neccessarily hurt him) with one hit in their original Lee/Buschema fight from the Silver Age. Spidey's hits did clearly affect Surfer when Norrin was possessed by Carnage in Defalco's second ASM run, as well as in Webspinners#4-5.

Originally posted by rotiart
Powerlevel wise... when people like shehulk... can't even hurt a guy like Surfer... but spiderman can... and his strength is 2 or 3 tiers below she hulks... Then you start to say... wtf?
not sayin he can physiclly hurt him i think ur reffering to fl just want to point out that fl was a lesser herald and he was a bit worn down after everything spider-man put him through

actually i was referring to the surfer with carnage... that spiderman was beating on...

and the hulk that spiderman was beating on... but Thing has hard times hurting...

its... its... its wtf.

Originally posted by rotiart
actually i was referring to the surfer with carnage... that spiderman was beating on...

and the hulk that spiderman was beating on... but Thing has hard times hurting...

its... its... its wtf.
carnage surfer i belive was more due to his unstable state of mind i dont think he really hurt him but in the condition he was in he reacted as if he did..... as for hulk the answer for that varies from the hulk's current strenght and rage condition at the time to spidy's speed blitz starting to wear him down

Here's the other Thor instance. I'd say that this one actually IS serious jobbing (I don't really feel that way about Firelord), but it still happened and is part of the average:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/bmovie_buff/WebofSpider-Man105-04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/bmovie_buff/WebofSpider-Man105-08.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/bmovie_buff/WebofSpider-Man105-14.jpg

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
For the record, I like Wonder Girl too. I find her much more interesting than Wonder Woman. I just don't think she had the skill and experience neccessary to win a majority, at least pre-OYL. \
but this is post oyl so.....

Oh and I'm not saying Spideyu would not win a fight.
I just think WG would win the maority think I said at the begining of this thread that she would win 8/10 times which I think is a fair assement.

Originally posted by Draco69
Experience-wise, she's significantly lower than Spider-Man. She's faced gods, the underworld and cosmic beings since she was about 11 years old. She's seventeen now.

Skillwise, that's debatable. She's constantly been trained not only by Artemis, or Diana or Hipployta but ALL the Amazons. She got the Amazon training treatment and they are HARDCORE. In one issue they threw poor Cassie into a pit full of Harpies (her mother had touched her earlier thus depriving her of her powers for a short time) with only a dagger to defend herself. She's certainly no slouch when it comes to combat. As an Amazon, she's cool, cold and calculating in combat and unlike Diana she doesn't hold back from the start.

I would give Cassie the win 7/10. She certainly doesn't possess the experience of Spider-Man, but she's too strong and her durability has stood up to gods and a PC Kryptonian. Spidey will get the majority of the hits in (many will be deflected by Cassie's superior speed; he's fast but Cassie can deflect lasers at point blank range...) but Cassie only needs to connect (and despite his Spider-Sense as well as reflexes, some WILL connect due to her faster than sound blows...) to defeat him.

The webbing will be a major annoyance to Cassie though....

That sounds right.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
Spidey also KOed Thor in WOS#105 by using the momentum of Thor and some other heroes against each other. In fact, his wed-sheild blocked a shot from Mjolnor in that issue.

Spidey also speed-blitzed the Eric Masterson Thor and nearly KOed him before he saved himself with lightning in Thor#448. But I know these are both gonna get written off as "SvFL." No matter how consistent his ability to hang with these beings is.


Spidey has blitzed

Absorbing man
Hulk
Firelord
Masterson Thor
and I want to say Juggernaut

Spidey's dodged lasers (spidey sense as well as reactions)
caught bullets
etc etc he's a quick one.

I think Spidey definitely has what it takes to win the slight majority here. Sure, he's not as strong, or as durable. But his vast experience, superior reflexes, spider-sense, superior agility, super-strong webbing, superior fighting-speed, and resourcefulness can grant him the victories he needs.

I personally don't think he's faster than Cassie. Cassie's faster than sound...she can react faster than sound as well. Spidey's niche on "superior" fighting speed is outclassed by Cass.

He also lacks the ability to actually do lasting damage to Cass. She took hits from Superboy Prime and Hades....

once again your forgetting to take into count how spider-man fights it wont take him more than 10 seconds to know that he's outclassed in power so the he would find another way to beat her he's not just a straight out fighter he uses his enviroment to his advantage as well

Originally posted by lando005
once again your forgetting to take into count how spider-man fights it wont take him more than 10 seconds to know that he's outclassed in power so the he would find another way to beat her he's not just a straight out fighter he uses his enviroment to his advantage as well

His usual tactics as you said using the environment around him, a hit and run tactic and evading his opponent's every move until his opponent begins to tire.

The environment around him (unless it's the Baxter Building full of tech) isn't going to help him. What is going to use against Wonder Girl that can actually hurt her? A car? A building? A hot dog stand? Those will all crumble as soon as they hit her and only merely piss her off.

Hit&Run and Evasion also won't work because A) she's faster than him by several dozen counts B) She has much more manuverability C) She's not stupid. She'll recognize Spidey's evasive style and instead taking the offensive like most of the numbskulls who face Spidey, she'll play defensive as she was trained or use long range attacks.

Spidey is MUCH more likely to tire than WG who can fight for days at non-stop.

Originally posted by Draco69
His usual tactics as you said using the environment around him, a hit and run tactic and evading his opponent's every move until his opponent begins to tire.

The environment around him (unless it's the Baxter Building full of tech) isn't going to help him. What is going to use against Wonder Girl that can actually hurt her? A car? A building? A hot dog stand? Those will all crumble as soon as they hit her and only merely piss her off.

Hit&Run and Evasion also won't work because A) she's faster than him by several dozen counts B) She has much more manuverability C) She's not stupid. She'll recognize Spidey's evasive style and instead taking the offensive like most of the numbskulls who face Spidey, she'll play defensive as she was trained or use long range attacks.

Spidey is MUCH more likely to tire than WG who can fight for days at non-stop.
if spidy manages to drop a few buildings on her she's gonna feel it.... but he doesnt have to just do that he evad her get into a lab and create something useful for a quick fix on her, spider-mans dodged faster opponets than him before she should be no diffrent and as far as playing it cool sure that could happen but bast on her personality i'm willing to bet that spider-man can get under her skin enough to make a mistake, if the marvel universe had to vote on who the most annoying irritating person they every had to fight against was spidy would probably be up near the top

Originally posted by lando005
if spidy manages to drop a few buildings on her she's gonna feel it....

Hardly. She took punches from Diana and Superboy Prime. Dropping a building on her will just muss up her and make a fashion-conscious blonde very angry that her jeans are ripped...

And how pray tell will Spider-Man "drop" a building on her. Even a small one. He's Class 10 to 15. A building's structure is held together by several thousand tons.....

And do honestly think that Cassie will just stand there and LET the building fall on her? She can just fly out of the way....she's faster than sound...


Originally posted by lando005
but he doesnt have to just do that he evad her get into a lab and create something useful for a quick fix on her,

Lab? What lab? What makes you think they're fighting in New York City? They're fighting in a neutral environment.

If you want Spider-Man to get help, than Cassie can get help too. Lab equipment<<<<<<Olympian Gods....



Originally posted by lando005
spider-mans dodged faster opponets than him before

Like Quicksilver? He was slower than Cass...

I have no doubt he can dodge SOME of her blows (and she can easily deflect any of his) but not all of them.


Originally posted by lando005
she should be no diffrent and as far as playing it cool sure that could happen but bast on her personality i'm willing to bet that spider-man can get under her skin enough to make a mistake, if the marvel universe had to vote on who the most annoying irritating person they every had to fight against was spidy would probably be up near the top

Um. NO. She's dealt with Lil' Lobo, Impulse, and god help her Plastic Man and Beast Boy some of the most annoying people in ANY universe...on the same team...of YEARS. She has extradinary resistance to annoying people.

Which isn't even relevant. She's an Amazon warrior. She was taught to ignore the banter of her opponents and focus on the fight.

Originally posted by Draco69
Hardly. She took punches from Diana and Superboy Prime. Dropping a building on her will just muss up her and make a fashion-conscious blonde very angry that her jeans are ripped...

And how pray tell will Spider-Man "drop" a building on her. Even a small one. He's Class 10 to 15. A building's structure is held together by several thousand tons.....

And do honestly think that Cassie will just stand there and LET the building fall on her? She can just fly out of the way....she's faster than sound...
spiderman has manuverd people into dropping buildings on themselves befor if they were inside when it happend she would be able to get clear of it when it fell in time now would she not if she didnt know it was gonna happen



Lab? What lab? What makes you think they're fighting in New York City? They're fighting in a neutral environment.
and what qualifies as a netural enviroment?

If you want Spider-Man to get help, than Cassie can get help too. Lab equipment<<<<<<Olympian Gods....
did i say anything about getting help? hes not calling in the avenges is he? it's still a one on one fight nobody ever said anything about not being resorceful i didnt say she couldnt pick up a building and drop it on spidy nod did i she could do the same thing spider-man has proven that he's very resourceful when he fights that's all i'm saying





Like Quicksilver? He was slower than Cass...
the first time spider-man and quicksilver faught quicksilver was than the enegy field defence system being used by the avengers not to mention spiderman's dodged speed demon and a few others faster than quicksilver

I have no doubt he can dodge SOME of her blows (and she can easily deflect any of his) but not all of them.
for the most part i'll agree with you here but he would be able to connect some blows on her




Um. NO. She's dealt with Lil' Lobo, Impulse, and god help her Plastic Man and Beast Boy some of the most annoying people in ANY universe...on the same team...of YEARS. She has extradinary resistance to annoying people.

Which isn't even relevant. She's an Amazon warrior. She was taught to ignore the banter of her opponents and focus on the fight.
but yet she's still short tempered? not like i'm makeing that part up others have admited it as well she's not perfect she can still slip up

Originally posted by lando005
spiderman has manuverd people into dropping buildings on themselves befor if they were inside when it happend she would be able to get clear of it when it fell in time now would she not if she didnt know it was gonna happen

Yes. Very stupid people like the Rhino.

A) Do really think Cassie is stupid enough to not only not notice a building is falling on her ("Gee, I wonder what the big mass of falling rubble is up in the sky!" much less just use her superspeed to avoid it?

And he can drop as many buildings on her as he likes. It won't help but just annoy her.

Cassie is more likely to THROW an entire building at Spidey.


Originally posted by lando005


Originally posted by lando005
and what qualifies as a netural enviroment?


A place that obviously doesn't favor an opponent. You stated that Spider-Man will somehow find a lab and know where it is and much less find something useful to use against an extradinary powerful foe.

What lab in the world would help him anyway? He had better hope the STARS lab or Baxter building is nearby...

Originally posted by lando005
did i say anything about getting help? hes not calling in the avenges is he? it's still a one on one fight nobody ever said anything about not being resorceful i didnt say she couldnt pick up a building and drop it on spidy nod did i she could do the same thing spider-man has proven that he's very resourceful when he fights that's all i'm saying

He can be as resourceful as he likes. Unless he by some miracle finds a Phantom Zone projector, there's nothing in a city that will help him against a demigoddess....




Originally posted by lando005
the first time spider-man and quicksilver faught quicksilver was than the enegy field defence system being used by the avengers not to mention spiderman's dodged speed demon and a few others faster than quicksilver

And Cass is still considerably faster than all of them. She's been clocked at flying to different countries in minutes...across oceans....

These people are all groundbased as well. Cassie can fly at superspeeds like Superman....


Originally posted by lando005
for the most part i'll agree with you here but he would be able to connect some blows on her

And they won't do squat. His hardest punch will barely faze her. Again, she's sparred with Diana, Superboy Prime and the Greek Gods...





Originally posted by lando005
but yet she's still short tempered? not like i'm makeing that part up others have admited it as well she's not perfect she can still slip up

She has a temper. But it takes alot to rile her up. Usually a reference to Superboy.

And any slipup she'll make won't hurt her. Spider-Man wouldn't have the ability to exploit it like higher level beings.

The best Spidey can hope for is that she falls on her own sword...

OMG

What the? Man I am a huge Spidey Fan but Spidey just
cant win. Sorry everybody who says he can beat her is
just a fanboy or just lost his sense for reality.

Originally posted by Draco69
Yes. Very stupid people like the Rhino.

A) Do really think Cassie is stupid enough to not only not notice a building is falling on her ("Gee, I wonder what the big mass of falling rubble is up in the sky!" much less just use her superspeed to avoid it?

And he can drop as many buildings on her as he likes. It won't help but just annoy her.
she's been koed by less force than that before

Cassie is more likely to THROW an entire building at Spidey.
ture but is it in her nature to do things like that?




A place that obviously doesn't favor an opponent. You stated that Spider-Man will somehow find a lab and know where it is and much less find something useful to use against an extradinary powerful foe.

What lab in the world would help him anyway? He had better hope the STARS lab or Baxter building is nearby...
i didnt say he would know where anything is i said he could COULD stumble across something useful COULD come up with a way to beat her if the fight was out in the middle of the desert then spidy is done for no denying that but we dont know where the fight takes place so we have to go off the history of both characters areas of operation which would be some type of city like enviroment


He can be as resourceful as he likes. Unless he by some miracle finds a Phantom Zone projector, there's nothing in a city that will help him against a demigoddess....
he doesnt always have to be resourceful either he has beaten people with only his wits webs and abilities before i'm ont saying spider-man owns this fight jsut saying that all the people who belive he losses just because wg is more powerful than him are really underating him






And Cass is still considerably faster than all of them. She's been clocked at flying to different countries in minutes...across oceans....

These people are all groundbased as well. Cassie can fly at superspeeds like Superman....
does that add into her combat speed? no




And they won't do squat. His hardest punch will barely faze her. Again, she's sparred with Diana, Superboy Prime and the Greek Gods...
he may be weaker than her but a good enough volly and she'ld feel it
why does eveyone belive just because she's more powerful that he doenst stand a chance







She has a temper. But it takes alot to rile her up. Usually a reference to Superboy.

And any slipup she'll make won't hurt her. Spider-Man wouldn't have the ability to exploit it like higher level beings.

The best Spidey can hope for is that she falls on her own sword...
your making this sound like a toddler fighiting a bulldoser here keep in mind spidy has fought and beaten people on her level before

Spiderman can throw buildings at people

and nowadays a comment about superboy won't make her lose focus

in teen titans 35 ravager made a comment about cassie's costume and how it is a tribute to superboy and cassie didn't lose her cool at all.