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Jesus Camp.

Comments? (Try watching the clips.)

Originally posted by Alliance
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Jesus Camp.

Comments? (Try watching the clips.)

Seems Cute

Seems scary/interesting.

I think this film looks extremly interesting. Can't wait for it to be released around here so I can see it.

Often times i enjoy being ignorant about the true nature of these things...however, the move claims its two-sided.

Originally posted by Alliance
Often times i enjoy being ignorant about the true nature of these things...however, the move claims its two-sided.

Two sides? The right side and the correct side?

Yes...those two.

Looks like good clean fun. Except that kid with the mullet.

I have heard interesting things about the film, I might very well see it. I felt pity for the kids at times in the clip, but then at other times, not so much, it didn't look so terrible... well, it is said to be an even handed approach to the whole thing. We shall see in time.

Though I suspect it will confirm my thankfulness that camp culture (that's holiday camps as opposed to "Ooo Captain" camp) never made it to Australia.

I'd rather see "death of a president," personally.

Originally posted by Alliance
I'd rather see "death of a president," personally.

Yes, I must admit that one also has , quite interested as well. Thank goodness there is some variety coming out, something to see other then endless comic book adapations and the like. Does my cinophile heart good.

Can I be a bit disturbed?

Fanaticism is rarely a good thing, even with good intentions.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Can I be a bit disturbed?

Fanaticism is rarely a good thing, even with good intentions.

Of course you can be. Poor kids. Poor kid with mullet.

Mullets should be a sin.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Fanaticism is rarely a good thing, even with good intentions.

But its sure as hell fun for a little bit...























































...then it just gets annoying.

It's a brainwashing scheme, i dont like it....

Yeah, but its still a cutlrual movement, one that could have a significant impact on this nation (US).

Originally posted by Alliance
Yeah, but its still a cutlrual movement, one that could have a significant impact on this nation (US).

It's a brainwashing scheme....i dont like it

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It's a brainwashing scheme....i dont like it

All the more reason to see it so you can educate yourself against the threat.

Originally posted by Alliance
Yeah, but its still a cutlrual movement, one that could have a significant impact on this nation (US).

Just like Gore's film on Global Warming This movie will bomb, and won't be remembered within a few months

We'll, Gore's movie was based off a powerpoint presentation.

Originally posted by Alliance
We'll, Gore's movie was based off a powerpoint presentation.

Power point presentations are one of the pillars of the corporate world.

Yes. Project managers use them for their suicide notes.

Originally posted by Alliance
Yes. Project managers use them for their suicide notes.

Ah, how very Dilbert.

Originally posted by Alliance


Which is why I didn't go into business even though I was good at it (well, not really, I just didn't like it much. I was good at agriculture to but didn't want to be a farmer)

Ahh.

Originally posted by Alliance
Ahh.

Unless it was ostrich farming. Even if that industry did go belly up back in the mid 90's

Nothing beats a buffalo burger.

Originally posted by Alliance
Nothing beats a buffalo burger.

I can honestly say I have never had buffalo... but I have had a had kangaroo, emu etc.

Apparently Australia is one of the only places (if not the only one) where it is legal to eat the national emblems animals.

And those ants with the swollen abdomen (because they are filled with nectar) dipped in chocolate.

Buffalo is very good, much leaner and more flavorful than your everyday ground chuck.

I guess its just a US thing (because buffalo are EVERYWHERE these days)

and Ostrich which tastes like beef..

Originally posted by Alliance
Buffalo is very good, much leaner and more flavorful than your everyday ground chuck.

I guess its just a US thing (because buffalo are EVERYWHERE these days)

What is a.... ground chuck?

um....ground beef.

Originally posted by Alliance
um....ground beef.

Oh thank goodness, I was worried you were talking about some sort of rodent like creature (though granted poor quality sausages and mince might very well contain such things.)

Sounds no different than Terrorist Training Camp, to me. A bunch of brainwashed individuals who will go to extremes for their beliefs.

Ironic isn't it?

Are they gonna serve Jesus Juice at Jesus Camp ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Are they gonna serve Jesus Juice at Jesus Camp ?

Yes, with Jesus fries and Jesus 'slaw before a big serving of Jesus pudding.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Are they gonna serve Jesus Juice at Jesus Camp ?

Laugh...you'd go. I believe they call them "protein shakes."

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Seems Cute
Saw this on tv today at school and am not sure what to think about it.It seens horrible.JM

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Saw this on tv today at school and am not sure what to think about it.It seens horrible.JM

LOL you out of all people think it sounds horrible ? Not that i dont agree with u....

Well I don't think it is right to make a kid become prolife it has to be there choice.JM

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Well I don't think it is right to make a kid become prolife it has to be there choice.JM

I agree. I don't think brainwashing a child is right, no matter what the cause. Atleast you agree that a person should be allowed to choose...

Not abortion but to be choose to be prolife or proabortion.Goodnight.jmsleep1

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Not abortion but to be choose to be prolife or proabortion.Goodnight.jmsleep1

You make no sense...so its okay to be pro-abortion, but not have abortion ?

Pro-abortion sounds so wrong. Sounds like there are people going around saying "You should have abortions"

Pro-choice - the right to choose to have an abortion
Pro-Life - No right to have an abortion
Pro-Abortion - Believes abortion is a good thing and there should be more of it.

Most people disagree with having an abotion, but rational people would allow another woman to make up her own mind.

I don't know anyone who is pro-abortion.

...education system, where are you?

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Just like Gore's film on Global Warming This movie will bomb, and won't be remembered within a few months

yeah his presentation on manbearpig didn't fly either...

sorry just had to mention that...

Kids in 'Jesus Camp' are spiritually scarred

October 6, 2006
BY CATHLEEN FALSANI Religion Writer
Do you know where the expression "Out of the mouths of babes . . ." comes from? I was surprised myself by the answer.

The Bible.

There are two references -- one in the Gospel of St. Matthew and the other found in the Book of Psalms, which says, in part, "Out of the mouths of babes and infants you have founded a bulwark because of your foes, to silence the enemy and the avenger."

Has a different ring to it when you read the expression in context, doesn't it?

I kept thinking about that expression -- Out of the mouths of babes ... -- as I watched the new documentary film "Jesus Camp" this week.

I did not expect to like "Jesus Camp," a PG-13 documentary that opened in Chicago last week but that I've been hearing about since its debut at the Tribeca Film Festival this past spring.

The film, made by documentarians Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady, follows several Midwestern children through their experience at a pentecostal Christian Bible camp in (seriously) Devils Lake, N.D., where pre-adolescent kids are trained to be, among other things, soldiers in the Army of Jesus Christ.

The documentary has caused a lot of shrieking and hand-wringing in some circles, mostly among those for whom the word "evangelical" means "complete lunatics who want to turn the United States into a theocracy."

I figured I'd watch it with a lot of eye-rolling and then write a "lighten-up, Francis" column about how not all evangelicals are alike, that only a few of us are meanspirited, wild-eyed, gun-toting conservatives. I expected the film to be another paint-all-the-Jesus-people-with-the-same-broad-nefarious-brush treatment that has become so popular in recent years.

But as it turned out, I didn't like the film for an entirely different reason. In fact, the filmmakers, whose last project together was the documentary "The Boys of Baraka" about a group of "at-risk" pre-adolescent boys from Baltimore who attend a school in Kenya for a time, treat their subjects with empathy, nuance and context.

Ewing and Grady don't skew the film to make the pentecostal Christian kids, parents and pastors in the film look like crazy people. The times when those folks do come across as wackos is not the fault of the filmmakers.

"Jesus Camp" is a thoroughly troubling film that left me shaken, literally. It might be because I recognized myself in the faces of the shaking, weeping, trying-so-hard-to-please-God-and-their-parents children in the film.

Three children who are featured in the film -- 9-year-old Rachael, 10-year-old Tory and 12-year-old Levi -- are marvelous kids, well-spoken, polite, bright, kind and sooooooo sincere. They say all the things their parents have taught them to believe: that they love the Lord and their country, that they want to act justly, live rightly and walk humbly with their God, that abortion and evolution are wrong, that global warming is a myth.<

Education or indoctrination?
Their parents seem like well-meaning, God-fearing people and I'm sure they have their children's best interests at heart as they subject them to religious and political indoctrination in public and on film. (One has to question the wisdom of allowing your child to be followed by a film crew for any reason, no matter how allegedly noble.)

As I watched sweet home-schooled Tory, who loves to dance and takes private lessons, explain that she has to keep herself in check when she dances to make sure it's "for the Lord" and not "for the flesh," my heart broke. The idea that this 10-year-old's dancing could be anything but full of joy and innocent beauty is so very sad.

She's trying so hard, crying out to God in prayer, tears streaming down her red face and veins bulging in her slender neck, as she pleads for an end to abortion during one especially animated worship service at camp.

And then there's earnest, precocious Rachael, the one ho reminds me so much of myself at her age. The scene that really got me took place at a bowling alley where she prays over her ball before sending it pathetically down the lane. "Your spirit, not mine," Rachael whispers at the too-big red bowling ball in her hands. "Help me to make this one a good one. Ball, I command you in the name of Jesus: Make this one a good hit."

The ball winds up in the gutter.

In another scene, Rachael, who has a habit of nervously holding her breath as she talks, clearly parroting the lessons about faith and values she's learned at home and at church, walks up to three older African-American men seated in a park in Washington, D.C., where she has traveled with her parents to take part in an anti-abortion demonstration.

"Hi," Rachael says, arm semi-outstretched with a Bible tract in hand. "If you died tonight, where do you think you'd go?"

"Heaven," one of the men says.

"Are you sure?" the little girl prods.

"Yes," the man says pleasantly.

As she walks away, clearly flummoxed by the encounter, Rachael whispers to the two kids with her, "I think they were Muslims."

Oy.

After watching "Jesus Camp," I can't help but wonder where education ends and indoctrination begins, whether indoctrination can ever be a benign thing, and what, exactly, constitutes spiritual abuse.

I can't imagine a situation in which I would feel it was OK to subject my young child to a worship experience so emotionally charged that she is encouraged to scream out, bawl and shake, to confess her laundry list of egregious sins and beg God's forgiveness as the pastor shouts, "We don't have any phonies in the army of God!"

The army language doesn't bother me. There's a lot of history and, frankly, biblical imagery to back that up. It's the emotional manipulation of children in the name of God that turned my stomach. I'm sorry, but that just seems emotionally violent and spiritually reckless.

Spiritual abuse leaves debilitating scars, even if you can't see them. There's more than one way to walk through this life with a limp.

Children aren't warriors
In "Jesus Camp," the pastor, Becky Fischer, who seems like a well-meaning, funny, warm woman genuinely devoted to her ministry, talks about the importance of indoctrinating children in order to change our "sick'' world, which is going to hell in a handbasket.

Explaining how important it is to "get 'em young," Fischer, who tells her young disciples that the "warlock" Harry Potter is "an enemy of God," says, "I want to see these kids laying down their lives for the Gospel in the same way fundamentalist Muslims do."

Children aren't warriors. They're children. Let them have their few innocent years before sending them off to battle, please. Their parents can do the fighting until they're old enough to decide whether to enlist or conscientiously object.

When we start treating anyone -- children, adults, friends, enemies -- as commodities to be "gotten," beaten or won, we're no longer on sacred ground.

We're in dangerous territory.

Documentary 'Jesus Camp' goes to extremes

By Wesley Morris, Globe Staff | October 6, 2006

Young evangelicals attending Becky Fischer's Kids on Fire summer camp are strongly encouraged to bring their religious certainty (the more righteous the better). But they have to leave their ``Harry Potter" books and DVDs at home.
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``You don't make heroes out of warlocks!" screams Fischer, a rotund woman with spiky, dyed-blond hair, during one of the sermons captured in Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady's eerie documentary, ``Jesus Camp." In the Old Testament, she says, dear Harry would be put to death.

In 2001, Ewing and Grady went out to the suburbs of Kansas City and followed three youngsters to Fischer's camp, which, symbolically enough, takes place every year in Devil's Lake, N.D. What they find and present, with thinly veiled disdain, is Christian fundamentalism, unyielding and strange.

Among their tactics for conveying that strangeness is to play scary electronic music over many of the scenes. It makes a lot of ``Jesus Camp" seem like a horror film, which is a needlessly incriminating touch.

To be fair, the camp does have its share of odd, even morbid, moments. Fischer, for example, types out one sermon in a dripping-blood font right out of a schlock movie. She and her staff walk around the church and tell the devil to stay away. Stuffed animals are deployed as props in a lecture on the wages of sin. Eventually, Fischer beseeches the hypocrites in her mostly preadolescent flock to come forward, repent, and receive healing ablation from the water of the word of God.

Kids on Fire feels like a religious boot camp, and the filmmakers frame the documentary around the reality that these kids are being groomed for war. Fischer is the drill sergeant. Her training exercises include encouraging the campers to speak in tongues, as she does. The enemy could be liberals or Muslim fundamentalists. They train their children for holy war. Why shouldn't she?

Ewing and Grady, whose previous film was ``The Boys of Baraka," find three boundlessly committed kids to trail. Twelve-year-old Levi is an up-and-coming preacher. His close-cropped haircut ends in a rat's tail, and he spends part of some days watching the Intelligent Design series ``Creation Adventure." He's for-real about spreading God's word.

So is Rachael , a bubbly 9-year-old. Fearlessly, she approaches strangers and hands them fundamentalist literature. Clutching a cute stuffed animal, she also gives an explanation of faith that ends in certainty that she's not going to hell. (But you might.)

Rachael's got nothing on Victoria, the tween daughter of an active-duty soldier. Don't let that preciously pink bedroom fool you. This girl loves Christian heavy metal. Victoria's main concern, though, is how others feel about her passion for dance. ``People will notice that I'm dancing for the flesh," she worries. Instead, she dances for God.

It might be too much to ask for a little more diversity in the movie's subjects. Aren't there any boring, conventionally innocent kids marching in God's army? The film does discreetly raise some important developmental questions about whether prodigies are born or concocted. Earl Woods put a 9-iron in his son's hands, but Young Tiger preternaturally knew what to do with it. Is that a reasonable analogy for what Fischer is doing with Kids on Fire? Are she and her staff nurturing kids' inchoate faith or are they exploiting it?

Because the film has no narration, Ewing and Grady rely on the left-leaning Christian talk radio host Mike Papantonio to do all the worrying, in excerpts from his broadcasts. He's afraid that there's no line between religion and politics in America, and his passion to keep the two separated is admirable. But his claims seem ponderous next to Fischer's politicized Christianity. And when she calls in to the broadcast, late in the movie, she turns out to be far more bellicose than we've seen her before.

If we are in the midst of a culture war, as many people proclaim in ``Jesus Camp," then the left should be concerned. The right's Christian soldiers appear to be extremely well trained.

Scare tactics...........

God, I made a thread on this months ago.

Originally posted by Alliance
God, I made a thread on this months ago.

Yeah, but mine is better!



Plus, noone actually saw it. Now that it's out, we can see this horro...er....documentary movie for ourselves.

There are many armies in this world I support. The US army, the Salvation army, the Clone army...

...I would like to see "God's army" destroyed. I'd personally be happy to take up arms against it myself and give new meaning to the term "culture wars"

Originally posted by Alliance
There are many armies in this world I support. The US army, the Salvation army, the Clone army...

...I would like to see "God's army" destroyed. I'd personally be happy to take up arms against it myself and give new meaning to the term "culture wars"

God's Army destroyed? What would the heathens do then, Alliance?

Go about their daily lives?

But they'll burn in hell, Alliance.

The only thing burning will be C4.

Originally posted by Alliance
The only thing burning will be C4.

But, but, but.....

Fvck it. This is getting boring. If you bring the C4, I'll get the AK-47s. Okay?

Sounds a heck of a lot more like a draft than recruitment to me.

Sooooooooooo where does a parent and state draw the line when it come to children? Will it be state? Or will it be parents rights?

The parents wil win in the current political climate.

No, not here in the States.........

Yes. There.

Nah, the children are taken away from parents that don't want to seek medical attention as in the Christian Scientists.......Big thing now.

Many court cases.............so who has the rights of the children?

Originally posted by Draco69
Yeah, but mine is better!



Plus, noone actually saw it. Now that it's out, we can see this horro...er....documentary movie for ourselves.

I saw it on Wednesday.

It's funny how JIA has nothing to say about this...

JIA needs to never say anyhting again.

One of the reasons why I am glad camp culture, or hyper evangelical religions of any kind have really got strong grip in Australia.

To be honest being packed of to a Christian camp to be trained for "God's army" sounds only slightly better then being packed of to a Middle Eastern camp to train for "Osama's Army" - I mean really.



I'm in, especially if at some point I can wave a pistol and cry "over the top men!"

Originally posted by Alliance
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Here are the links if you don't have it....

Jesus Camp.

Comments? (Try watching the clips.) That website is ****ing sick. I'm glad there aren't any in England.

Ehhh....

Ok? ermm

This is a very good movie. It is so so sad and tragic to see children being used in the way they were in the film.

Brain wash them early.......That's how you do it.

Originally posted by lord xyz
That website is ****ing sick. I'm glad there aren't any in England.

The US makes me

Is this our future generation????


*wonders if I shall be burned at the stake*

Actually, its the past generations that are the origin of this.

The rest of our generation is currently considered pretty sane noneleft.

But their training little armies.........frusty

Originally posted by BackFire
This is a very good movie. It is so so sad and tragic to see children being used in the way they were in the film.

I love that her response to the accusation that she is indoctrinating children is tantamount to "Everyone else is doing it, so why shouldn't we?"

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I love that her response to the accusation that she is indoctrinating children is tantamount to "Everyone else is doing it, so why shouldn't we?"

With them having that mentality the answer is simple - we need to make them think everyone else is jumping of cliffs like lemmings.

Problem solved.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I love that her response to the accusation that she is indoctrinating children is tantamount to "Everyone else is doing it, so why shouldn't we?"

hehe.

What the...?

Seriouslym now. I watched a full report regarding this, off a link on some kind of strange Christian television.

What disturbed me the most (apart from the...entire idea) was the woman saying that she wants Children to be devoted and willing to die and fight for Jesus the way Muslim children are.

WTF? Christians and Muslims are having a copetition who can create more fanatical children.

Isn't this child abuse?!

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What the...?

Seriouslym now. I watched a full report regarding this, off a link on some kind of strange Christian television.

What disturbed me the most (apart from the...entire idea) was the woman saying that she wants Children to be devoted and willing to die and fight for Jesus the way Muslim children are.

WTF? Christians and Muslims are having a copetition who can create more fanatical children.

Isn't this child abuse?!

In a sane world it would be.

One of the wonders of fanatcism and indoctrination - it is so easily transferable across all causes.

Ah for a world of rationality where all people thought fanatacism was something to be avoided... not embraced.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Isn't this child abuse?!

Yeah...well...not historically.

Whatever it is, its sure as hell effective.

The best part about that comment though as I bet she sure hates Muslims and wants to see them wiped form the face of the earth.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What the...?

Seriously now. I watched a full report regarding this, off a link on some kind of strange Christian television.

What disturbed me the most (apart from the...entire idea) was the woman saying that she wants Children to be devoted and willing to die and fight for Jesus the way Muslim children are.

WTF? Christians and Muslims are having a copetition who can create more fanatical children.

Isn't this child abuse?!

It's only child abuse if they're paying taxes. Otherwise it's indoctrination.

The fanatacism race is one that can't be won. These people believe that their religion is an "eye for an eye" negotiation. But, just like Ghandi said: An eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind.

Ghandi also got shot.

Originally posted by Alliance
Ghandi also got shot.

which kind of proved him right

ill just get nightmares if i see this film. evangelicals really creep me out

meh...I was never really partial to Ghandi.

Originally posted by Alliance
meh...I was never really partial to Ghandi.

LOL...he's not a brand of beer.

must be drinking that ghandi lite crap...he never tried ghangi lager

I'm interested to see this film.

I help teach the Superchurch (sunday school) with my wife once a month, and her sister and husband (my brother and sister-in-law) are the heads of the childrens ministry for our church.


It sounds as though this lady, Becky whatever, has good intentions, but has taken them WAY too far off track.


Our classes teach about Jesus, who he was and what he did, what Christians believe, and how living with Jesus inside you can give you joy, healing from sickness, and help in times of need.

While our church is non-denominational, many of the leadership people are from Pentecostal backrounds.

When lead by the Holy Spirit, one of our head pastors has given prophetic words to people, and many of us pray in tounges. (myself included)

However, these are things are touched on briefly to the kids, explained as part of the gifts that Christians can have when filled with the Holy Spirit (as opposed to telling the kids that they should do them), and not a big focus in our ministry as a whole, and certainly not in any given sunday lesson.


I have mixed feelings about this film.

From a Christian perspective, children can indeed have an enormous effect on things, and should not be relegated to the backround.

It was young David, at age 12 who defeated a giant named Goliath when the whole army of Israel could not.

Jesus himself wanted the children to come to him and learn his teachings along with the adults.


I cannot in good conscience however, condone the idea that these kids should be ready to "lay down their lives like the muslim kids do" garbage that the lady is preaching.

That's flat out wrong.


Everything else, like the showing of a plastic fetus in a talk about abortion, to questioning the theory of evolution, to telling them to pray for leaders and the president is fine, but should be much more toned down and generalized.

We never get into that kind of stuff with our kids, aged 1st grade through 6th.

(mostly I do puppet skits and make a fool of myself in a large dog costume.)

The hard-hitting kind of lessons that are going on here would be better suited to young Christian teens, at ages 14 or 15, about to enter public high schools.


A few side notes:

We have one boy who speaks in tounges, his parents are elders in our church, and I know that his home is very God-focused. If a child recieves this gift, its a great and beautiful thing that shouldn't scare any of you just because it's super-natural, but it shouldn't be exploited, nor should it be paraded around in front of other kids. By definition, it's prayer in a heavenly language, and is between the praying person and God.

Second, I've heard a bunch of hulla-baloo about the scene of the Bush card-board cut-out that the kids "worship."




They're praying for him. This last sunday, when a couple dedicated their newborn, and I and everybody else stretched our hands out toward them and prayed, we weren't "worshipping" them, but asking God to bless them as parents, give them strength, and to bless the child.

Christians should always pray for their appointed leaders, as the Bible says.

Even democrats, since no leader "sneaks in" but is allowed by God for a purpose. I know many Christians who had to release their personal pride to pray for President Clinton, and were right to do so.


Lastly, parents have a right to teach their children however they want to.

Some (Christian or not) teach that dating at 16 is o.k, some don't.
Some teach that getting good grades is the most important thing, some teach that doing your best is.
Some teach that drugs and alcohol are bad and won't talk about it, some share their past uses and talk about the effects of them.

Parents who are Christians and have experienced Jesus to be real and powerful in their lives have every right to teach their children that.

Just as any other parents, they will be held accountable for how that affects them.


I would love to see this film, so that it can be used to caution other Christians about the right and wrong ways to teach/lead/love children.


As for the "culture war" of secularists v.s. the "Christian army"....


These liberal reviewers are right. It's indeed coming. No need to involve the kids. When you see the ten million man march of Christians on Washington, and see the peacefull demonstrations and raw power of that many men worshipping almighty God at once, and demanding a return to decency, morals, and TRUTH, then you'll see who you are really up against.

Not us, but God himself.

God Bless.

-Bryan.

suddenly i find myself supportive of the microwave emitting mass torture device....

I am sorry if I missed it in this thread but when does this movie come out? Or is it out already?

Originally posted by PVS
suddenly i find myself supportive of the microwave emitting mass torture device....

You don't have a microwave oven already?

Originally posted by PVS
suddenly i find myself supportive of the microwave emitting mass torture device....

I keep having visions of the kid in the movie with the mullet who said he got saved when he was 5 because he was looking for meaning in his life. The kid is five. And any support for these people, be they line item or total agreement, should be condenmed.

Look at this crap. Guilting and scaring kids to the point that they start crying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKqMCSoBWzQ

Excuse me, but WE have the truth!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JECP9qzjmF0

"Some extreme liberals have to be looking at this and start shaking in their boots: They are becky, they are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51lKQE2nZRw

Children don't get a choice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_TzXliYDvk

"when I run into a non-christian, there's something that makes my spirit feel all yucky"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AepKW4Jn0t4

I like how "The Water of God" comes from a Nestle waterbottle. Corporate Sponsors?

"Army of God" Piss Off.

I agree with Becky though, I think it'd be great if all the fundamentalist laied down their lives for Jesus.

"every other religion does it" Shakya? Where is your buddhist army?

"Good Job Rachel, way to be obedient."

Honestly, the rise of the Third Reich was more justified than this crap.

its a culture of bullies. they always hint at the prospect of violence and war, behind a mask of peace. assholes, every one of them (you)

Extremists....nothing more.

makes me want to own a firearm

And Sithsabre says we find it disturbing because it's supernatural and it scares us. It scared me, but not because it's supernatural. Because it's not.

What scares me are Chrsitian militias.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
From a Christian perspective, children can indeed have an enormous effect on things, and should not be relegated to the backround.

It was young David, at age 12 who defeated a giant named Goliath when the whole army of Israel could not.

Which was the logic behind the children's crusade. And we all know how that ended.



As odd as it sounds I think kids should be allowed to wait till they are old enough to decide for themselves - usually about 9 or 10.

There is a fine line between "teaching as equals" and "indoctrinating so they are like us."



Some Muslim kids. Not Muslim kids in general. But pleased to see you agree - it is flat out wrong.



Toned down? The abortion debate should be put on hiatus completely. Some Christians get upset at a kids book in a library because of the single line "This is Jim and his two dads" yet feel perfectly happy flashing around plastic foetus. I mean jeeze.



For good reason.



Kinky. (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)



15 I believe might be putting it on hold a bit long though. Education is important, and it can be detrimental to be ignorant of normal, acceptable things, or things in general. Kids are curious. They will seek out knowledge from other places if it is not provided by teachers or parents - which can be worse.

Education is better then hoping they wont want to know before the age of 15.



Even democrats? Is there some reason why people might not want to pray for a democrat? Some of them are actually religious after all. Though usually more liberal.



To a degree - however if the teaching is harmful or has potential negative social results it is debatable whether that should be given a green light.



Except God, who isn't accountable for anything when it comes to humanity.




Highly unlikely it would come down to that.

1st - Christianity is a religion in decline

2nd - Christians can't agree on anything. Maybe it they stopped going on about how "my belief is right and your's is wrong" they might have a chance.

3rd - What is decent, moral and true? You can bet you bottom dollar it differs for person to person.

The secularist vs. religious fundamentalism is what is more being alluded to. Not peaceful demonstrations - but rather increasingly fanatical opinion. I'd be prepared to stake the farm on there being no peaceful gathering of 10 million Christians in this life time.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Which was the logic behind the children's crusade. And we all know how that ended.



As odd as it sounds I think kids should be allowed to wait till they are old enough to decide for themselves - usually about 9 or 10.

There is a fine line between "teaching as equals" and "indoctrinating so they are like us."



Some Muslim kids. Not Muslim kids in general. But pleased to see you agree - it is flat out wrong.



Toned down? The abortion debate should be put on hiatus completely. Some Christians get upset at a kids book in a library because of the single line "This is Jim and his two dads" yet feel perfectly happy flashing around plastic foetus. I mean jeeze.



For good reason.



Kinky. (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)



15 I believe might be putting it on hold a bit long though. Education is important, and it can be detrimental to be ignorant of normal, acceptable things, or things in general. Kids are curious. They will seek out knowledge from other places if it is not provided by teachers or parents - which can be worse.

Education is better then hoping they wont want to know before the age of 15.



Even democrats? Is there some reason why people might not want to pray for a democrat? Some of them are actually religious after all. Though usually more liberal.



To a degree - however if the teaching is harmful or has potential negative social results it is debatable whether that should be given a green light.



Except God, who isn't accountable for anything when it comes to humanity.




Highly unlikely it would come down to that.

1st - Christianity is a religion in decline

2nd - Christians can't agree on anything. Maybe it they stopped going on about how "my belief is right and your's is wrong" they might have a chance.

3rd - What is decent, moral and true? You can bet you bottom dollar it differs for person to person.

The secularist vs. religious fundamentalism is what is more being alluded to. Not peaceful demonstrations - but rather increasingly fanatical opinion. I'd be prepared to stake the farm on there being no peaceful gathering of 10 million Christians in this life time.

Imperial Samurai, I just want to say thanks.

That was the first open, intelligent, and considerate response to my post, which in effect said "I'm a sunday school worker, and this movie is out of wack. I support her ideals, but not her methods, and certainly not her messages."


Everyone else is squawking about Christian militas and wanting to buy handguns.

Nobody is talking about an acutal "culture War" with killing, that's ridiculous, just as you posted.

I wasn't saying there would be physical fighting or anything, just a confrontation of ideals: Secular America and Christian America.


As for the gathering, they already had close to a million men in Washington before at a Promise Keepers event a few years ago.

I just went to one in Arco Arena, in Sacramento over the weekend, with around 10,000 Christian men.

It was pretty peaceful. We heard some good preaching and worshiped the Lord in song.

If such events are held peacefully all throughout the country, why would it be hard for all the men from all the meetings to have one BIG meeting in Washington?

Also, with 100 million people in america identifiying themselves as Christians, with missionaries in every country around the world (my church alone has people in India, Haiti, Japan, and Trinidad. My boss at work is currently on a missions trip to Uganda.) , and as the film Jesus Camp itself says, 1 or 2 new churches opening every day how can you call Christianity a religion in decline?

It is certainly under attack, but in these troubled times, people are more and more often seeking a comfort from God, whomever that may be to them.

I plan of seeing Jesus Camp sometime this week, I'll let you know about it after... If anyone is interested in seeing a truly scary yet comical Christian film, rent "Hell House", it is a documentary were Christians put together a Fun/Horror house about sins like homosexuality, being a non-Christian, reading Harry Potter etc. and they act out scenarios were people die and either go to heaven or hell based on if they belive in Jesus or not. If you're interested in seeing religious brainwashing in America, rent this movie.

http://images.greencine.com/images/movies/amg/dvd/cov150/drt200/t292/t29223fnqk0.jpg

Originally posted by Robtard
I plan of seeing Jesus Camp sometime this week, I'll let you know about it after... If anyone is interested in seeing a truly scary yet comical Christian film, rent "Hell House", it is a documentary were Christians put together a Fun/Horror house about sins like homosexuality, being a non-Christian, reading Harry Potter etc. and they act out scenarios were people die and either go to heaven or hell based on if they belive in Jesus or not. If you're interested in seeing religious brainwashing in America, rent this movie.

http://images.greencine.com/images/movies/amg/dvd/cov150/drt200/t292/t29223fnqk0.jpg

Originally posted by Robtard
I plan of seeing Jesus Camp sometime this week, I'll let you know about it after... If anyone is interested in seeing a truly scary yet comical Christian film, rent "Hell House", it is a documentary were Christians put together a Fun/Horror house about sins like homosexuality, being a non-Christian, reading Harry Potter etc. and they act out scenarios were people die and either go to heaven or hell based on if they belive in Jesus or not. If you're interested in seeing religious brainwashing in America, rent this movie.

http://images.greencine.com/images/movies/amg/dvd/cov150/drt200/t292/t29223fnqk0.jpg

Brain washed.......so sad............yet, I found teens that have hated this and can't wait to get out of their parents house......

Originally posted by Robtard
I plan of seeing Jesus Camp sometime this week, I'll let you know about it after... If anyone is interested in seeing a truly scary yet comical Christian film, rent "Hell House", it is a documentary were Christians put together a Fun/Horror house about sins like homosexuality, being a non-Christian, reading Harry Potter etc. and they act out scenarios were people die and either go to heaven or hell based on if they belive in Jesus or not. If you're interested in seeing religious brainwashing in America, rent this movie.

http://images.greencine.com/images/movies/amg/dvd/cov150/drt200/t292/t29223fnqk0.jpg

Wait... they do it to each other? Or do they go out and grab people of the street and in a weird German social experiment kind of way do it to them?




Yes I do say it is in decline. Numbers of conversions in western nations are dropping, Church attendance is down - the big Christian sects/denominations are loosing followers to the more energetic evangelical Church, or to the more liberal ones.

The only places Christian numbers are really booming are in places of suffering and need - Africa, South America.



I know what you are saying - but I don't see any likelihood in 10 million American Christians gathering on the streets of Washington. Or Sydney or London of whatever. It would be one of the biggest protests ever - but I am yet to see anything approaching cohesion among enough Christian groups to get together and do it.

They differ to much. Have different ideas on what is right and wrong. Liberal Christian vs. conservative Christian.

Effectively, this mother will propagate her skewed viewpoint through her children- children, who shall never know how it feels to weigh evidence, consult one's own moral nature, and make a informed decision on their own. Sounds like though control to me.

Even though im a catholic, this is alittle to extreme. This is really not a good look for us. I dont only mean christians, but theres other religions that can be this extreme.

the movie looks disturbing. It shows how the religions we thought were normal are now turning into cults. The children are so brainwashed that when the woman running the camp declared war on the government, the kids yelled with her and said they would give their lives to take back land for Jesus. Belief is one thing. Obsession and brainwash is another.

Militarization is yet a further problem.

I can not wait to see this movie, it's a comedy right?

No. Its a documentary.

Has anyone read the recent Time article where they interview the directors of Jesus Camp? I was not impressed. They supported a totally twisted of Christians. If you haven't read it, check it out on the site and see what I mean.

What does "They supported a totally twisted of Christians" mean?

Originally posted by Bardock42
What does "They supported a totally twisted of Christians" mean?
The avatar is messing up her speech.

Originally posted by WonderGirl
Has anyone read the recent Time article where they interview the directors of Jesus Camp? I was not impressed. They supported a totally twisted of Christians. If you haven't read it, check it out on the site and see what I mean.

Time as in Time Magazine?

And you do realise that just doing an interview doesn't actually mean support the things being said or done. It is a thing called journalism. Just like the reporters who interview criminals aren't actually supporting the crime.

I wasn't accusing Time Magazine itself... but the directors of the movie. It's sounds suspiciously like they're making fun of it- and just because Chrisians don't like they or their family exposed to things that are inappropiate, and pass down their religion, doesn't mean we're resenting everything. We're commanded to be 'in the world, but not of it'.

"In a sense, Jesus Camp is a record of a crime- the theft of childhood by possibly well-intended but narrowly ideological adults.... Neither she nor Gradycan entirely fathom why the Evangilicalsfeel so profoundly threatened in a largely tolerant U.S. They speculate that casual, unthinking secularism, represented by everthing from the TV schedule to Wal-mart's groaning shelves, makes these Evangilicals feel encircled and unheeded despite their relative prosperity."
Time Magazine
November 6, 2006

Originally posted by Robtard
I plan of seeing Jesus Camp sometime this week, I'll let you know about it after... If anyone is interested in seeing a truly scary yet comical Christian film, rent "Hell House", it is a documentary were Christians put together a Fun/Horror house about sins like homosexuality, being a non-Christian, reading Harry Potter etc. and they act out scenarios were people die and either go to heaven or hell based on if they belive in Jesus or not. If you're interested in seeing religious brainwashing in America, rent this movie.

http://images.greencine.com/images/movies/amg/dvd/cov150/drt200/t292/t29223fnqk0.jpg


OH BOY !

I've heard its good.

Originally posted by Robtard
I plan of seeing Jesus Camp sometime this week, I'll let you know about it after... If anyone is interested in seeing a truly scary yet comical Christian film, rent "Hell House", it is a documentary were Christians put together a Fun/Horror house about sins like homosexuality, being a non-Christian, reading Harry Potter etc. and they act out scenarios were people die and either go to heaven or hell based on if they belive in Jesus or not. If you're interested in seeing religious brainwashing in America, rent this movie.

http://images.greencine.com/images/movies/amg/dvd/cov150/drt200/t292/t29223fnqk0.jpg
I recommend that one episode of King of the Hill.

"Oh, no, he's eating the baby! Somebody stop him!"

"We can't--it's illegal to teach creationism in school."