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According to the Old Testament of the Bible, Shaving your Beard is an insult to God and a sin.

How many Christians hear shave thier beards ?

Does a goatee count?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
According to the Old Testament of the Bible, Shaving your Beard is an insult to God and a sin.

How many Christians hear shave thier beards ?
We no longer are bound by the strictures of the Law.

Originally posted by FeceMan
We no longer are bound by the strictures of the Law.

Yes, it no longer counts, it is simply a contradictory... oops, I meant Jesus updated things in the NT.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Yes, it no longer counts, it is simply a contradictory... oops, I meant Jesus updated things in the NT.
Yes, he did. Good deal, eh?

Originally posted by FeceMan
Yes, he did. Good deal, eh?

I knew this argument would come up soon....so why include the Old Testament then? Does this render the Old Testament irrelevant ?

Yea well i don't think that matters to god anymore

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
According to the Old Testament of the Bible, Shaving your Beard is an insult to God and a sin.

How many Christians hear shave thier beards ?

Well, I have a goatee, so i guess I'm not a sinner.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I knew this argument would come up soon....so why include the Old Testament then? Does this render the Old Testament irrelevant ?
No, for Christ came to fulfill the Old Testament. However, Paul specifically states that we are not forced to abide by them. In that time period, there were people going around saying that you had to be castrated in order to be saved, and Paul says that he wishes that they would "go the whole way" and emasculate themselves fully.

Paul's a witty guy.

EDIT:

Originally posted by FeceMan
No, for Christ came to fulfill the Old Testament. However, Paul specifically states that we are not forced to abide by them. In that time period, there were people going around saying that you had to be castrated in order to be saved, and Paul says that he wishes that they would "go the whole way" and emasculate themselves fully.

Paul's a witty guy.

EDIT:

It still renders the Old Testament Irrelevant, since Christ is there to replace it.

Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
Yea well i don't think that matters to god anymore

The thing I have always wanted to know is why it ever should have mattered to God. At all. He who is so high and beyond us being concerned about beards. I mean really.

We just make up whatever we want whenever we want and then condemn people for not following it.

Originally posted by Alliance
We just make up whatever we want whenever we want and then condemn people for not following it.

Preach it!

Its the joy of fanaticism.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It still renders the Old Testament Irrelevant, since Christ is there to replace it.
No, it doesn't. Christ is there to replace it, but that doesn't make the Old Testament unimportant.
Originally posted by Alliance
We just make up whatever we want whenever we want and then condemn people for not following it.
Because you're just THAT awesome.

Originally posted by FeceMan
No, it doesn't. Christ is there to replace it, but that doesn't make the Old Testament unimportant.

Wouldn't it be like a two part safety manual though?

Safety manual Part One (OT) - To remove toast from toaster insert knife vertically and wiggle about. (Don't shave, don't eat sea food, don't menstruate, don't be vision impaired near alter, don't...)

Safety Manual Part Two (NT) - On second thought don't worry about what Part One says. Just get new toaster. (Sorry everyone, God has changed his mind, all that stuff he mentioned in the first part doesn't mean anything now. Mostly. Don't ask me why, he was just having one of those days at the time.)

Originally posted by FeceMan
No, it doesn't. Christ is there to replace it, but that doesn't make the Old Testament unimportant.
Then 1. Why is the OT still part of the Bible.

Then 2. Why didn't Christ say the OT was crap now?

Originally posted by Alliance
We just make up whatever we want whenever we want and then condemn people for not following it.

I think you just made that up.

Who is we?

That is certainly the impression I get.

Originally posted by Alliance
Who is we?

That is certainly the impression I get.

Lizard people? The Illuminati?

Jawas?

I wouldn't mind Jawas dominating the earth. Cute as buttons they are.

And when we get sick of them we can put them in a pulper and make a lot of money selling Jawa Juice.

ick.

At least we could have Jawa hunts.

Originally posted by Alliance
ick.

At least we could have Jawa hunts.

They don't strike me as particularly tough prey. Ewoks and Gungans would be a lot more of a challenge.

Not sure which part of a Jawa a person would mount on the wall...

You could use the eyes to light your walkways.

Originally posted by Alliance
You could use the eyes to light your walkways.

So they continue to glow when the Jawa is dead?

For a long time I thought Jawa disapeared like Yoda did when they died - this was born from the scene where they were cremating the Jawa bodies - it really did look like empty robes they were chucking on the fire.

Anyway...clones. Thats where the action is at.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Yes, it no longer counts, it is simply a contradictory... oops, I meant Jesus updated things in the NT.

Jesus had a beard. It said so in the New Testament. Just like hating ****, women and black people.

What? It wasn't mentioned? Because it was written by people four centuries later?!!! Not possible!

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
The thing I have always wanted to know is why it ever should have mattered to God. At all. He who is so high and beyond us being concerned about beards. I mean really. i can't tell you that becuase i'm not god.

Originally posted by FeceMan
We no longer are bound by the strictures of the Law.

And who decides which parts of the scripture you go by and which you don't? Did you finally find what we atheists had all along...freedom?

Originally posted by FeceMan
No, it doesn't. Christ is there to replace it, but that doesn't make the Old Testament unimportant.

HOW IS THE OLD TESTAMENT RELEVANT IF YOU ARE NO LONGER BOUND TO FOLLOW ITS RULES? IF YOU ARE TRULY FREE FROM THE RESTRICTIONS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, THEN HOW IS IT STILL IMPORTANT? WHAT F*CKING PURPOSE DOES IT SERVE IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO ABIDE BY IT ANY LONGER?????!????~


The fkn contradictions that surround Christian Faith and the Bible itself become more and more plentiful the more time goes by....

Originally posted by FeceMan
Because you're just THAT awesome.

Indeed he is my freind, Indeed he is.

I remember a certain set of Commandments that lie in the Old Testament. I guess they're useless now.

At least we know why Christians are such humungous hypocrites, they don't even need to abide by anything in the OT.

So Christians DO NOT have to follow the Old Testament... Huh? Can someone with Bible knowledge please explain the whole 'people no longer being bound by the OT since Jesus came along' thing?

http://www.christcenteredmall.com/stores/art/roe/ten-commandments-large.gif

So these are no longer God's laws?

Originally posted by Robtard
SO Christians DO NOT have to follow the Old Testament? Huh? Can someone with Bible knowledge explain people no longer being bound by the OT since Jesus came along?

http://www.christcenteredmall.com/stores/art/roe/ten-commandments-large.gif

So these are no longer God's laws?

Yes, according to the Jesus, all you have to do is think these things and you have committed them.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
According to the Old Testament of the Bible, Shaving your Beard is an insult to God and a sin.

How many Christians hear shave thier beards ? This is strengthening my point that Islam is out of date Christianity. ermm

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
HOW IS THE OLD TESTAMENT RELEVANT IF YOU ARE NO LONGER BOUND TO FOLLOW ITS RULES? IF YOU ARE TRULY FREE FROM THE RESTRICTIONS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, THEN HOW IS IT STILL IMPORTANT? WHAT F*CKING PURPOSE DOES IT SERVE IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO ABIDE BY IT ANY LONGER?????!????~


The fkn contradictions that surround Christian Faith and the Bible itself become more and more plentiful the more time goes by....



Indeed he is my freind, Indeed he is.

So basically what you're sayingis that all of Jewish religion, and customs followed today are wrong.

Jews speciically condem the way Torah speaks of for example stoning.

Don't shave my beard, you mean an excuse to be lazy? Done and done. Oh wait, isn't slothfulness a sin or something, oh well, whatever!

I shave my goatee last year...does that count?

Originally posted by FeceMan
We no longer are bound by the strictures of the Law. Which laws, and can you please post where they were done away with because Jesus said Not one jot or tittle will in no way pass away from the law until heaven and earth cease.


Paul worshipper....

Originally posted by BackFire
Don't shave my beard, you mean an excuse to be lazy? Done and done. Oh wait, isn't slothfulness a sin or something, oh well, whatever! Do what I do, ignore these rules.

Originally posted by Robtard
So Christians DO NOT have to follow the Old Testament... Huh? Can someone with Bible knowledge please explain the whole 'people no longer being bound by the OT since Jesus came along' thing?

It is much the same as stating that works are unnecessary for a person to be saved by a grace that only occurs if there is faith which is dead and meaningless unless it has works which are unnecessary to salvation.

In summation:

The laws of the Old Testament are in force. Method of law enforcement have changed (i.e. no more stoning, etc.) The laws were incorporated in the teaching of Christ. Christ stated that loving one another was what was required. He then stated that if one loves one another in the manner he taught, that that individual would not break any of the laws of the Old Testament. If a person breaks a law from the Old Testament, that person is not following Christ's teachings.

As to hair style customs, etc. The practice was mainly for ease of discrimination between a Hebrew and someone that was not Hebrew. It made it easy to see who was Hebrew and who was not. These were familial specific to the Hebrews, there is no reason to believe that this manner of hair style would hold over to non Hebrew believers.

It's obsolete.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
It's obsolete.

The Bible? I agree.

Christian only make some parts obsolete because to not do so, with their many interpretations, would make them Jews.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
The Bible? I agree.

The Bible itself? No. Many of the laws? Yes.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The Bible itself? No. Many of the laws? Yes.

The whole of religion is outdated.

IT'S ONLY A JEWISH RELIGION......

Originally posted by debbiejo
IT'S ONLY A JEWISH RELIGION......

No, I meant all of religion everywhere is outdated.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
The whole of religion is outdated.

I agree that some ideas and teaching are outdated, but it's also full of many ones that apply in any era.

For example: I believe the shave-your-beard law and the Jewish food laws are obsolete, but I think The Ten Commandments will always apply.

After all, The Commandments were quite literally written in stone.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
No, I meant all of religion everywhere is outdated.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
After all, The Commandments were quite literally written in stone.

Where? In an Alabama courthouse?

"literally." ha.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
No, I meant all of religion everywhere is outdated.

Apathetic atheism is outdated...

Originally posted by Alliance
Where? In an Alabama courthouse?

"literally." ha.

You're obviously not familiar with Moses.....

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I agree that some ideas and teaching are outdated, but it's also full of many ones that apply in any era.

For example: I believe the shave-your-beard law and the Jewish food laws are obsolete, but I think The Ten Commandments will always apply.

After all, The Commandments were quite literally written in stone.

The Ten Commandments are a set of moral rules, morals don't exist soley in religion.

I don't need to be religious to know that taking another life is wrong.

In fact, there were similar laws in place long before the Bible was ever written.

Originally posted by Regret
Apathetic atheism is outdated...

I'm neither apathetic nor an atheist. Don't assume you know anything about me.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You're obviously not familiar with Moses.....

I never knew mythology was literal.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
I'm neither apathetic nor an atheist. Don't assume you know anything about me.

I didn't state I knew anything about you. I made a simple statement with as much value attached as your statement. I do not assume I know something about you, I do know something about you. You made a statement and regardless of your belief in it, it gives me information about you.

Also, religion does not necessitate a group or organized belief system. It can be defined by personal belief that a deity exists and any behaviors that are altered as a result of that existence. The fact that you made a statement on the subject of religion and are not an atheist means that you, by definition, have a religion, even if it is a personal one.

Originally posted by Regret
I didn't state I knew anything about you. I made a simple statement with as much value attached as your statement. I do not assume I know something about you, I do know something about you. You made a statement and regardless of your belief in it, it gives me information about you.

Also, religion does not necessitate a group or organized belief system. It can be defined by personal belief that a deity exists and any behaviors that are altered as a result of that existence. The fact that you made a statement on the subject of religion and are not an atheist means that you, by definition, have a religion, even if it is a personal one.

More assumptions. I like it.

You forgot the third option. Agnosticism is fun. Maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't, but until I'm shown some satisfying proof, I'll remain skeptical and Godless.

The further you get into the Christian religion the More Jewish you must become.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
More assumptions. I like it.

You forgot the third option. Agnosticism is fun. Maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't, but until I'm shown some satisfying proof, I'll remain skeptical and Godless.

Agnosticism is a belief in the possibility of a deity. Your statement to a stance on agnosticism is still a behavior based on the possible existence of deity. It is still personal religion. The only nonreligious stance is atheism.

Originally posted by Regret
Agnosticism is a belief in the possibility of a deity. Your statement to a stance on agnosticism is still a behavior based on the possible existence of deity. It is still personal religion. The only nonreligious stance is atheism.

That's not true. It may exist or it may not, neither of which concern me.

I don't believe there is a God, but am not foolish enough to say there definitely is not one without some sort of evidence.

Still, religion is outdated. More and more people are showing that they do not need religion to show they they love others or won't go on a killing spree.

Originally posted by debbiejo
IT'S ONLY A JEWISH RELIGION...... No.... trace all the roots of it.....it is only a Jewish belief just many in the whole world wide........ Celtic, Scandinavian, native American, etc. etc...............only another belief system .......only the Samaritan and older cultures had the names.........They were changed with the Roman Catholic church,

Originally posted by debbiejo
No.... trace all the roots of it.....it is only a Jewish belief just many in the whole world wide........ Celtic, Scandinavian, native American, etc. etc...............only another belief system .......only the Samaritan and older cultures had the names.........They were changed with the Roman Catholic church,

Debbie, quote yourself any more and I might start to wonder as to your socking for JIA

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Still, religion is outdated. More and more people are showing that they do not need religion to show they they love others or won't go on a killing spree.

I think you are wrong. People in general perform acts of kindness in mediocrity without religion. Those that perform acts of kindness above the mediocre that do not have a religious view are not the norm.

Originally posted by Regret
I think you are wrong. People in general perform acts of kindness in mediocrity without religion. Those that perform acts of kindness above the mediocre that do not have a religious view are not the norm.

Woah, hold up there buddy...I seriously beg to differ.

It has been my experience, that the kindest people in general happen to be open minded liberals, and very few I have met have been Christians. Are all Liberals/Athiests/Agnostics good people? No, but I have met more people in those categories who display kindness and sympathy, while the majority of hateful. judgemental, and prejudice people I have encountered or seen from a distance happen to be Christian.

Why do you imagine I have such a personal dislike of Christianity in general? Do you think its the religion ITSELF I dislike so much? No....its the multitudes of close minded, hypocritical, and judgemental people who represent Christianity that make me sick of the religion itself.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Woah, hold up there buddy...I seriously beg to differ.

It has been my experience, that the kindest people in general happen to be open minded liberals, and very few I have met have been Christians. Are all Liberals/Athiests/Agnostics good people? No, but I have met more people in those categories who display kindness and sympathy, while the majority of hateful. judgemental, and prejudice people I have encountered or seen from a distance happen to be Christian.

Why do you imagine I have such a personal dislike of Christianity in general? Do you think its the religion ITSELF I dislike so much? No....its the multitudes of close minded, hypocritical, and judgemental people who represent Christianity that make me sick of the religion itself.

I am not saying they act any better. I am stating that, imo, man needs something to promote behaving in a loving manner. That religion or something like it is needed as impetus for man to be better.

Originally posted by Regret
Debbie, quote yourself any more and I might start to wonder as to your socking for JIA

I know. WTF? Even I don't quote and argue with myself.

Originally posted by Shalimar_fox
i can't tell you that becuase i'm not god.

I don't think I was actually intending you to answer as a god, but rather as a rational person.

...mmmm...rationality....doesn't grow on trees you know.

Originally posted by Alliance
...mmmm...rationality....doesn't grow on trees you know.

Regretably.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
HOW IS THE OLD TESTAMENT RELEVANT IF YOU ARE NO LONGER BOUND TO FOLLOW ITS RULES? IF YOU ARE TRULY FREE FROM THE RESTRICTIONS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, THEN HOW IS IT STILL IMPORTANT? WHAT F*CKING PURPOSE DOES IT SERVE IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO ABIDE BY IT ANY LONGER?????!????~


The fkn contradictions that surround Christian Faith and the Bible itself become more and more plentiful the more time goes by....



Indeed he is my freind, Indeed he is.
Simply because we are no longer bound to obeying the Law to the letter does not mean that it is obsolete. Rather, the OT is an excellent teaching tool. It gives insight into God's character. It also means that we don't have to kill people for certain sins--like bestiality. However, it does not mean that certain things are not sinful.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And who decides which parts of the scripture you go by and which you don't? Did you finally find what we atheists had all along...freedom?
That is a difficult thing to say. I have not been "given the keys to the kingdom", as it were, so I cannot give an exact answer. However, I would be willing to wager that the more trivial things--as well as the ones dealing with capital punishment--are the ones to which Paul was referring (and there's enough NT scripture to back that up). However, Paul also warns against sin, which, oddly enough, is clearly outlined in the OT.

And your freedom shall in turn be slavery, Bardock.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Jesus had a beard. It said so in the New Testament. Just like hating ****, women and black people.

What? It wasn't mentioned? Because it was written by people four centuries later?!!! Not possible!
not rly

Originally posted by Alliance
I know. WTF? Even I don't quote and argue with myself. omg, how did that happen...........I wasn''t even on drugs.....lol

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Woah, hold up there buddy...I seriously beg to differ.

It has been my experience, that the kindest people in general happen to be open minded liberals, and very few I have met have been Christians. Are all Liberals/Athiests/Agnostics good people? No, but I have met more people in those categories who display kindness and sympathy, while the majority of hateful. judgemental, and prejudice people I have encountered or seen from a distance happen to be Christian.

Why do you imagine I have such a personal dislike of Christianity in general? Do you think its the religion ITSELF I dislike so much? No....its the multitudes of close minded, hypocritical, and judgemental people who represent Christianity that make me sick of the religion itself.

You are wrong ! I'm gonna do a JIA, and argue with myself too

Originally posted by FeceMan
Simply because we are no longer bound to obeying the Law to the letter does not mean that it is obsolete. Rather, the OT is an excellent teaching tool. It gives insight into God's character. It also means that we don't have to kill people for certain sins--like bestiality. However, it does not mean that certain things are not sinful.


But they do not matter if the laws are no longer relevant, does it ?

Shaving your beard is a Sin in the Old Testament, but suddenly because Jesus arrived, it is no longer a sin? Then why bother having it written? You say as a guideline, a guideline for what?

Why do we need to be told not to shave our beards if it no longer applies ? This makes me beleive that a lot of the Bible is inapplicable today (as if i already didnt beleive that)

The more you study the Bible, and follow it's teachings, the Jewish you become............Hence denominations like WWCG, and SDA, and also Seventh day Baptists..........

Originally posted by Regret
I am not saying they act any better. I am stating that, imo, man needs something to promote behaving in a loving manner. That religion or something like it is needed as impetus for man to be better.

Hmmm. Perhaps, motivation is needed for many things a person does in life. But I think there are any number of things - society, image awareness, philosophy, education, family etc. that fulfill the same roll as a religion in motivating a person to contribute positivly to the world.

I don't think a person needs God to be good, to do great things.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Hmmm. Perhaps, motivation is needed for many things a person does in life. But I think there are any number of things - society, image awareness, philosophy, education, family etc. that fulfill the same roll as a religion in motivating a person to contribute positivly to the world.

I don't think a person needs God to be good, to do great things.

Not all people, there are those that are good and do great things without religion, but they are a severe minority. On the whole, man fails at being good, even with religion, imo. The absence of religion would be a detriment to man's attempts at being good.

Originally posted by Regret
Not all people, there are those that are good and do great things without religion, but they are a severe minority. On the whole, man fails at being good, even with religion, imo. The absence of religion would be a detriment to man's attempts at being good.

Hmmm. I'd say, as the whole, while man might fail at being good, that doesn't mean he succeeds at being bad. For most part people are just people - not profoundly good or bad, they go through life closer to the middle.

However they are more likely to do little goods then little bads - depending on how one defines and levels good. One acting as a good parent would be more a majority, and there needn't be anything religious about it.

But as I was saying - society (well most) and education socially exhort a person to be good. People are taught from a young age (hopefully) that it is better to be good then bad - be it awards in school that honor moral concepts to bravery awards for adults. Likewise the whole "image awareness" issue - or what some call Rich Man Charity - were positive image reinforcement is associated with acts of charity, social contribution and the like. Really I don't see nonreligious people who do good things as a minority.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Hmmm. I'd say, as the whole, while man might fail at being good, that doesn't mean he succeeds at being bad. For most part people are just people - not profoundly good or bad, they go through life closer to the middle.

However they are more likely to do little goods then little bads - depending on how one defines and levels good. One acting as a good parent would be more a majority, and there needn't be anything religious about it.

But as I was saying - society (well most) and education socially exhort a person to be good. People are taught from a young age (hopefully) that it is better to be good then bad - be it awards in school that honor moral concepts to bravery awards for adults. Likewise the whole "image awareness" issue - or what some call Rich Man Charity - were positive image reinforcement is associated with acts of charity, social contribution and the like. Really I don't see nonreligious people who do good things as a minority.

By minority I am referring to the great men, not people as a whole. Typically great men in history have been religious.

It is an interesting subject, but in our world it is impossible to empirically study whether or not people would be good without religion. There is no method to remove the influence of religion on society, given that all moral teachings, to my knowledge, have basis in some religion, I am not sure that "good" behavior is something that would be produced without religion. Now, I am biased in that view because I believe in religion, and thus man didn't invent religion. If man invented religion, then religion is unnecessary to "good" behavior.

Ah, I am with you on now on the "great man" bit, though of course at the end of the day it was the men themselves that did great things, religion merely motivated - theoretically.

And of course it is religion in general - the many great men and women there have been throughout history have backgrounds in any number of different and varied religions. Theoretically then if there is one "true" religion out there, then the others must have there origins in the minds of man, making plenty of them man made, which would simply lead to the conclusion that it, the good act, still rests with mankind itself.

Originally posted by Regret
Not all people, there are those that are good and do great things without religion, but they are a severe minority. On the whole, man fails at being good, even with religion, imo. The absence of religion would be a detriment to man's attempts at being good.

Funny how America, a 'Christian' nation, has the highest crime rate in the world, while Japan, a 'Godless' country(90% believe there is no god) has the lowest crime rate on the planet.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Funny how America, a 'Christian' nation, has the highest crime rate in the world, while Japan, a 'Godless' country(90% believe there is no god) has the lowest crime rate on the planet.

Ahhh...were are these stats from?

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Funny how America, a 'Christian' nation, has the highest crime rate in the world, while Japan, a 'Godless' country(90% believe there is no god) has the lowest crime rate on the planet.

Japn doesn't have the lowest. Singapore does.

And i'm sure those aren't per-capita numbers.

Here's somethign at least:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=3231

As I said...his stats were wrong.

Yup. Where the hell did he get the 90% Godless? Is he counting Shintoism too?

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Funny how America, a 'Christian' nation, has the highest crime rate in the world, while Japan, a 'Godless' country(90% believe there is no god) has the lowest crime rate on the planet.

Although, Shinto Japan believed until after the war that the Emperor was God. Given this, do they not believe in a God, or do they not admit to believing? Also, there are religions currently in Japan, and as far as Godless, they have only been without their "Emperor God" since the war, when he was forced to make a public announcement that he was not a God.

I there are religions in Japan....

I think this link is telling: its just a picture.

Countrys with stricter punishments are usually going to have lower rates of crime. Criminals in the us have little to fear in the way of retribution.

except for capital punishment....which clearly condradicts your statement.

WHEEEEEE

The Japanese murder rate is about 1.1 per 100,000 people; West German has a rate of 3.9, Britain a rate of 9.1, and the U.S. 8.7 per 100,000 people.

http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/crime.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan

Today, about one to two million Japanese are Christians (about 1% of Japan's population). Most of them live in Western Japan where the missionaries' activities were greatest during the 16th century.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2298.html

"Godless" as in the top 3 religion's view of the monotheistic triad excuse for a Judeo-Christian God.

And the original article I read: http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=219&article=7

and it's source http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Originally posted by Alliance
except for capital punishment....which clearly condradicts your statement.
As a professional int he correction system I can enlighten you some there. The death penalty is rarely carried out to the individuals givin it. They get up to 13 appeals and many just die on death row or knocked down to life in prison. I dont remember the exact stats but its higher than you would think. A very low % actually. Not that I advocate corporal punishment at all but its quit the deterrent. Eye for an eye ect.

I know it is rarely carried out, but the idea that we stil have it is rediculous...only countries like China, Iran, and North Kora have the death penalty...the legal system is not at all. In the civilized world it is illegal and crime is lower than in the US. I don't see it being an deterrent at all.

Originally posted by Alliance
I know it is rarely carried out, but the idea that we stil have it is rediculous...only countries like China, Iran, and North Kora have the death penalty...the legal system is not at all. In the civilized world it is illegal and crime is lower than in the US. I don't see it being an deterrent at all.

I agree, it's ineffective. I personally believe in harsher punishment, but to each their own.

I believe that the state has no right to take away someones life. Life in prison no parole.

Originally posted by Alliance
I know it is rarely carried out, but the idea that we stil have it is rediculous...only countries like China, Iran, and North Kora have the death penalty...the legal system is not at all. In the civilized world it is illegal and crime is lower than in the US. I don't see it being an deterrent at all.
Look at my post. I said the death penalty was not a deterrent. Its hardly ever used. I said harsher punishments were a deterrent. I have spoke to,,,,god knows how many inmates who say they dont mind prison. That the crime is worth the punishment. Crime is not lower in the us either, We now house more inmates than any country in the world. Our crime rate is horrible.

Originally posted by Alliance
I believe that the state has no right to take away someones life. Life in prison no parole.

I believe we should put serial killers on a barge, sail it to the middle of the Pacific, give one of them rations for a week, and come back a month later. Anyone who survives gets life without parole.

nah...thats called torture

Originally posted by Alliance
nah...thats called torture

In my mind, some deserve it.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
I believe we should put serial killers on a barge, sail it to the middle of the Pacific, give one of them rations for a week, and come back a month later. Anyone who survives gets life without parole.

No, if we want to go into strange psychological forms of punishment I say create an aritifical island, with everything they need to have a little society, and then let them go. It can be as good or as bad as they want.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
No, if we want to go into strange psychological forms of punishment I say create an aritifical island, with everything they need to have a little society, and then let them go. It can be as good or as bad as they want.

They'd have too much dependence on the US economy. Cost too much to do it in my mind.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
They'd have too much dependence on the US economy. Cost too much to do it in my mind.

Not necessarily - I'm not talking about supplying them with materials like a full blown nation needs. They don't need iron or masses of oil or anything like that. A simple farming community like any number that still exist throughout Eurpoe, they grow what they eat, can trade the rest out maybe. Maybe grow some other crops, keep some flocks of animals.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Not necessarily - I'm not talking about supplying them with materials like a full blown nation needs. They don't need iron or masses of oil or anything like that. A simple farming community like any number that still exist throughout Eurpoe, they grow what they eat, can trade the rest out maybe. Maybe grow some other crops, keep some flocks of animals.

True. I do believe this could work. If only I were in the Senate.

Prison is its own social and economic society for inmates. Each prison is like a city unto its own. With leaders, enforcers, workers and slaves. They have most everything they want. Drugs, alcohol and sex.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But they do not matter if the laws are no longer relevant, does it ?

Shaving your beard is a Sin in the Old Testament, but suddenly because Jesus arrived, it is no longer a sin? Then why bother having it written? You say as a guideline, a guideline for what?

Why do we need to be told not to shave our beards if it no longer applies ? This makes me beleive that a lot of the Bible is inapplicable today (as if i already didnt beleive that)
Paul is saying that we are no longer justified by the rules and regulations of the Old Testament. Rather, Christ took the place of those, so we would not have to be bound to following the OT to the letter. That does not mean, however, that certain things are not sinful.

Originally posted by FeceMan
We no longer are bound by the strictures of the Law.

Oh great, so we are no longer bound by the 'Being gay is a sin' stricture, so we can all be happy and gay and have as many abortions as we please.

Thank the Lord for that one, folks!

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
WHEEEEEE

The Japanese murder rate is about 1.1 per 100,000 people; West German has a rate of 3.9, Britain a rate of 9.1, and the U.S. 8.7 per 100,000 people.

http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/crime.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan

Today, about one to two million Japanese are Christians (about 1% of Japan's population). Most of them live in Western Japan where the missionaries' activities were greatest during the 16th century.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2298.html

"Godless" as in the top 3 religion's view of the monotheistic triad excuse for a Judeo-Christian God.

And the original article I read: http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=219&article=7

and it's source http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

But, correlation does not infer causation.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Paul is saying that we are no longer justified by the rules and regulations of the Old Testament. Rather, Christ took the place of those, so we would not have to be bound to following the OT to the letter. That does not mean, however, that certain things are not sinful.



Dude, you can't just have it both ways....you Christians are very accepting of Biblical contradictions aren't you?

Logically....how can we no longer be subject to the laws of the Old Testament, which DEFINE and outline Sin, and then all of a sudden still have to beware not to commit these sins which the Old Testament binds us to ???

Is Shaving your beard no longer a sin? It is certainly a Sin according to the Old Testament....so you no longer have to worry about it, even though it's still sinful?

Which is it bro ? WTF are you talkn about ?

So apparently, being Gay is no longer a sin, because it's an Old Testament law, yet somehow it's still sinful regardless? WTF man ?

Make up your mind !

Originally posted by Regret
But, correlation does not infer causation.

You're right. We'll make an experiment. You take everyone who is religious to the Western Hemisphere, and I'll take everyone who is not to the Eastern Hemisphere.

We'll see who bombs who first.

I bet it's you guys, seeing as not even two Christians know how to agree with each other(over 13 denominations, some with over 13 sub-denominations), much less other religions(coughCrusadescough), and even less with people who don't even believe in God.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
You're right. We'll make an experiment. You take everyone who is religious to the Western Hemisphere, and I'll take everyone who is not to the Eastern Hemisphere.

We'll see who bombs who first.

I bet it's you guys, seeing as not even two Christians know how to agree with each other(over 13 denominations, some with over 13 sub-denominations), much less other religions(coughCrusadescough), and even less with people who don't even believe in God.

Yes....paradoxically, as Religion tries to create unity, it ends up creating more disunity...