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ok well plagueis is the guy who taught sidious everything, that meant all the sh!t he did in ROTS he learnt from plaguies, some one who i believe is stronger than sidious in the movies though we have never seen him.


i think he would beat darth maul

So what? Is the guy who taught Yoda uber powerful, or Mace windu, no!!!

Since we definately know Sidious is good, we can make the judgement that his apprentice will be good. When a master teaches his aprentice something, he learns the Force but his actual strength depends on himself.

Since Sidious is a true master, he'll probably teach Maul everything, and since Sidious > Plagueis, we can assume Maul is a powerful apprentice.

For one thing, we don't even know if Darth Plagueis really even existed or if Sidious made him up, but if he did exist and truely was powerful enough to stop people from dying then he beats Maul.

well becuase we know very little about plagueis there are two ways to think about this. you can either go with the idea that he tought sidious everything and therefore is as good or better than sidious. or you could look at how strong with the force sidious said plagueis was and the fact plagueis spent all his time trying to find the secret to immortality.

he obviously spent a very very large portion of his life in meditation trying to learn secrets from the force and was possibly vrey passive as far as sith go. the idea that sidious killed him in his sleep doesnt really give an indication either way, its possible sidious viewed plagueis as being a better fighter and killed him in his sleep becuase its the only way he could have acomplished it, or it could be that sidious thought he was a much better fighter and simply wanted to kill his master with the least risk to himself.

being more focused on the force rather than combat doest mean plagueis wasnt a good fighter, sidious was very patient, spent most of his time either scheming or carrying out his evil plans but he was a skilled enough swordsman to take on 4 jedi and kill 3 of them in pure saber combat within a few seconds. sidious seemed to prefer non violent solutions to all his problems, manipulating people and planning years in advance, he wanted to talk anakin around and seduce him into joining the dark side rather than show him huge displays of power and talk about how weak the jedi are and how strong the sith are.

if possible i think sidious would have overthrown the republic and killed all the jedi without drawing his saber once. so he wasnt focused on combat anywhere near as much as most sith, but he was physically one of the most dangerous that ever lived.

id probably go for plagueis but the fight would probably be won through his huse of the force and not saber to saber combat. mauls greatest desire was to be the best duelist in the galaxy and worked to achieve that goal above all others. in a pure saber contest i think maul could beat most of the jedi or sith other than the likes of dooku yoda, sidious and mace, but hes not a great tactician and would ignore using the force in favour of defeating his opponent in pure melee combat, and that would probably cost him this match.

Muun's seem like natural wussies, but until I read the book I can't formulate a solid opinion on Plagueis.

well plagueis mastered something sidious could never do, that is midichlorian manipulation, the sith during revans era believed about the sith ari and thats anakin skywalker.


note what sidious said to anakin "he was so powerful he could influence the midi chorians to make life" that meant he should have mastered other abilities like choke, lightning and others

Originally posted by darthsith19
For one thing, we don't even know if Darth Plagueis really even existed or if Sidious made him up, but if he did exist and truely was powerful enough to stop people from dying then he beats Maul.

Actually, we do know he existed - the NEC explicitly states it.

The narrator of the NEC is fallible. However he obviously does exist, I mean they're writing a book on him.

Damn, I don't want that guy to exist. When I saw ROTS and Sidious started to talk about this creating life with the dark side, I thought, "damn he's a good manipulator, saying the exact things that will draw Anakin to the dark side". For it to actually be true, and for the dark side to CREATE life, is just silly for me....

Originally posted by Jen'ari
The narrator of the NEC is fallible.

And? The narrator of the NEC is right here. There's at least two other sources that confirm it, and have almost the same crap written on Plagueis. So obviously he's right, Plagueis does exist.

Originally posted by Advent
And? The narrator of the NEC is right here. There's at least two other sources that confirm it, and have almost the same crap written on Plagueis. So obviously he's right, Plagueis does exist.

Did you miss 'However he obviously does exist, I mean they're writing a book on him.'? Clearly I believe that he exists, I was just saying that using the NEC as a source isn't aways the best way to go.

Actually, I have heard that Plagueis was really Qui-Gon Jinn.
Sounds far-fetched, but it could be the reason that Qui-Gon found the secret of preserving oneself through the Force.

It was said when Jinn died, he returned to the Force and gave himself completely over to it, destroying his ego. As a result all the memories of any former life would have come aware to his consciousness.

It was then that he remembered the secret of "not dying".

As a side note, Sidious was no where near as powerful as Plaguis.
It was stated in the novel that Sidious knew that his master was about ten times more powerful than him, and this scared him.
Enough that he knew not to attempt to fight him...while he was awake.

He waited till his master was asleep and killed him, with poison I believe.

Plaguis's grand secret to eternal life may have very likely lay within achieving a state of preservation within the Force, instead of merely living forever in the physical existence.

Some of this is opinion, but I had heard this from a suspected "official" source around the time people were first starting to hear about Plaguis.

And if it seems too unbelievable, think about it...

Was Qui-Gon just stumbling upon Anakin on Tatooine just pure coincidence? Or had he managed to sub-consciously track down the boy he had helped to create through the Force.

And how did Qui-Gon recover the technique to living forever?

Think about it...

Oh yeah, eh, Plagueis WTF pwns Darth Maul.

Btw, If you have any questions about my questionable post, just PM me and I'll clairify.

Btw, Darth Sexy, don't get any ideas from that novel...

I'm a very, very light sleeper...furious

Originally posted by Darth Sexiest
Oh yeah, eh, Plagueis WTF pwns Darth Maul.

So Plaguies is Qui Gon, and loses to Maul? Sounds valid and not contradictory.

Plaguies is Qui-Gon, wtf???!!! We don't have enough info on Plageuis to draw a conclusion that he can defeat Maul. Maul has many accomplishments and he was trained by a powerful master, so he might be good. Plagueis could have been good as he taught Sidious, however Sidious's Force skill is his own level, and he could have learned his DE powers from maybe a holocron or something, you don't know.

I don't see Plagueis defeating Maul, but you never know.

here's striking down the Plagueis=Qui-Gon.

Plagueis is a Muun

Originally posted by Darth Sexiest
Oh yeah, eh, Plagueis WTF pwns Darth Maul. virtual unnknown verses maul... you have it backwards

Originally posted by Lightsnake
here's striking down the Plagueis=Qui-Gon.

Plagueis is a Muun

Right. And, Plaguies wins.

Originally posted by Darth Sexiest
He waited till his master was asleep and killed him, with poison I believe./B]

He actually sabered him.

I'm not aware of Palpatine ever stating or even thinking as such in the novelization. If so, the novel didn't display that - as far as I am aware. Page number?

Also, Palpatine was a pragmatic person. He didn't like to engage in battle, unless he had to. By that logic, you're telling me that Palpatine couldn't handle Gunray and the CIS leaders at the end of Revenge of the Sith simply because he sent Anakin to go kill them all.

Palpatine prefers to act when he is absolutely sure of victory.



Poison? Where are you getting your information from? Certainly not the novelization.

I love how you guys put virtual unknowns into a versus thread.

id never even think of saying because hes a muun hes not physically as powerful and would be a poor duelist. take any human and look at them in comparison to some of the other races in the star wars universe. wookies are much much stronger but the best duelists are almost all human or very close to. other than that take a look at yoda, if he wasnt force sensitive how powerful would he be physically?

plagueis did know a very advanced technique that palpatine didnt, but we dont know to what degree he knew it, or is palpatine made any progress in that area during his life. but rotj palpatine might have mastered it to the degree of plagueis. the circumstances plagueis learned it under are unknown also, he and his master might have spent decades working on it, plagueis could have killed his master just after unlocking the secrets and then taken palpatine and refused to teach it to him knowing it would result in betrayal. so plagueis could have largely been given the knowlege by his master and only completed the technique. however skilled in it he was it wasnt enough to actually grant him immortality and he was killed eventually. so going by that palpatine might have learned it to the same degree on his own without help.

the degree plagueis could manipulate midichlorians is unknown, and the degree of immortality it gave him is also unknown. it may have been simply the ability to recover form any injury that wasnt instantly fatal, in which case palpatine may have mastered that also becuase his death was pretty much instant once vader betrayed him. palpatine may have also known how to create life, but being palpatine decided it wasnt in his best interests to have another being as powerful as vader could have been walking around.

once he learned the secrets to gain full immortality he most likley planned to rule the universe forever, which would mean finding a powerful apprentice to carry on the sith legacy wouldnt have had any interest to him and any life he created would only have been a threat.

so basically what im saying is we have no idea how powerful plagueis was in relation to palpatine or anyone else, his great knowlege might have been handed to him by his master, of he could have learned it all himself and been just as powerful as palpatine. the only thing we can assume about him with anything other than guesses is that he was very devoted to gaining knowlege of the dark side, most likley above all else, so i stand by my post that saber to saber he probably wasnt as good as maul, but his knowlege surpassed anything maul could dream of.

well muuns are naturally intelligent

Originally posted by ESB Vader
well muuns are naturally intelligent


Wow, I've alot of questions to answer.

I'll do my best to get 'em all. It'll take some time however because of my busy work schedule.

About Plaguis being a Munn, is that even really canonical? If it is, it sounds like however made that descision diden't do enough research on Plaguis' character.

For those of you who scoffed at the idea of Qui-Gon being him, you apperently diden't think about how Qui-Gon aqquired his knowledge of immortality through the Force.

Also, the reason Qui-Gon died against Maul,(If he was indeed Plaguis)was because at that point, he had no knowledge or memories of his past life. Therefore had no access to the powerful Dark side techniques he once possessed. Also, using the Dark side of the Force to kill amplifies your ability to kill through the Force. At that point Jinn used nothing but the Light side, making his ability through the Force to kill, somewhat watered down.


Lastly, Sidious was indeed afraid of Plaguis. He diden't want to even risk doing battle with him, because his master could have killed him in a moments notice. Darth Plaguis rapes Maul. No question.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I love how you guys put virtual unknowns into a versus thread.

Very good point, my apprentice.

Next time, let's throw characters into the VS Thread that we know more about. Apart from the earlier knowledge that was unearthed to me about Plaguis. He is a mystery to me.

Yeah, and that's why you can't judge Plagueis against maul. Even if Sidious was scared of him, how do you this is full power Sidious speaking. If Sidious was scared, then he is not a pure Sith, because Sith have no fear (Dooku says this in Clone Wars 1)

Uh, then Sidious is not a sith in ROTS, cause he feared Yoda!

We can't be sure that Sids feared him Plagueis either, maybe he just wanted to do it the easy way....

Sidious feared Yoda?? Can I have a quote of that?

co-signed

Like running from him....

Sidious is a tactical man, he knows risks when he sees them. He knows there is a possibility than Yoda could somehow kill (even though Sidious believes he is greater than Yoda any other day, which is not true). I believe Sidious was trying to escape because of risk (look what happened to Anakin on Mustafar).

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Sidious feared Yoda?? Can I have a quote of that?

He did fear Yoda to a degree, in that he wanted to flee the fight instead of let things play out.

@Kamikz:


Palpatine ran because he feared the threat Yoda presented. He was entirely unprepared for a showdown. He also knew, as we all did, that Yoda was, at least, his equal in terms of ability - which meant that he had a 50/50 chance at winning.

For a guy who played Yoda like a fiddle for two decades in order to conquer the galaxy, I'd say that it is more pragmatism and sheer common sense than fear.

We know that he wasn't terrified of Yoda, as - during the pod fight - he didn't even take the little green guy seriously.

Like when Sidious nearly screamed when Yoda was about to overpower him? If he didn't have fear as an emotion, then how will they be able to realise which fights not to get into, would they care? Isen't fear a path to the dark side?
And Sidious was an arrogant ass, he though he was so much superior. The moment he saw he wasn't, he bailed out. Tactics or fear, you can call it whatever you want.


And jedi has said the same thing, but haven't they shown fears as well?

Originally posted by kamikz
I AM RETARDED I know this,though I won't point it out.
hystericalhystericalhystericalhystericalhysterical
hysterical

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