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I do hope everyone realizes that despite The Terminator series to be awesome, there is an inherent paradox that's so unavoidably evident from the first movie which makes the story impossible. Sarah Connor gets banged by Reese in the past, right? This gives birth to John Connor, the one who sends back Reese to protect his Mother. So see this? The first time line would have John already living. This means Reese would be born about the same age since they were when John Connor sent him back. In the first time line John was already born, but by whom? Anyhow, figured I'd point it out, awesome movie though.

I didn't notice that. But i always thought that if you did travel in time it would make some kind of loop and connection with the past. Making it happen again and again. It is a true mystery

It's an infinite loop. Kyle Reese was always John's father. There is no "original" timeline.

Its the ol Chicken and the Egg situation here.

Of course there's an original timeline, how the hell is there a past and a future unless there is a past and a future??? If there's a future, it's indicative of a past, and the PAST held John Connor having already been born, and being that linear time results in the future coming AFTER the past, John Connor didn't have Reese as his Daddy. And if you claim the time travel creates an infinite loop, time travel will have to have been completed in the FUTURE in the movie, which means that still, Reese is about John Connor's age, not JC's daddy, unless Sarah banged some infant.

If you watched the movie you would have seen that Kyle had a photograph of Sarah. The same photograph is taken at the end of the movie. It's an infinite loop. That is the entire point. SkyNet is created because the Terminator is sent back in time. John is created because Kyle Reese falls in love with Sarah in the photo and goes back in time to meet her. The loop justifies it's own existence.

There never was any original father. It was always Kyle from the future.

Haven't you notice the sad expression on her picture taken by the mexican boy? Something like "anybody can go insane thinking about this"...got it?

others like coffee & vv can understand my point to all this

Furthermore when Reese comments on the photo he says that Sarah looked sad and wondered what she was thinking about. At that very moment she is thinking about Reese after he died. Pretty powerful drama right there. Cameron was a master.

And she also said "quatro" that suggests part 4 holding the key to all the secret.

Didn't that mean the amount of money she was going to pay for the photo of her?

Yeah the kid wanted five dollars, but she offered to pay for four. That's not a bad deal since Polaroids are around a dollar a picture anyway.

lol haha. Polaroids. Last time i saw them was at a friend's McD's bday party way back in Primary school lol.

lol, that scene wouldn't be the same with the kid using a digital camera... or his phone.

The real hard thing for me to grasp is Terminator 2. How could Sara, John, and the Terminator alter the timeline. Wouldn't it be just as fluid and unchangeable as the 1st movie?

Originally posted by chriscaffee
If you watched the movie you would have seen that Kyle had a photograph of Sarah. The same photograph is taken at the end of the movie. It's an infinite loop. That is the entire point. SkyNet is created because the Terminator is sent back in time. John is created because Kyle Reese falls in love with Sarah in the photo and goes back in time to meet her. The loop justifies it's own existence.

There never was any original father. It was always Kyle from the future.
OH YEAH. that picture was taken by that kid. she kept it. but john gave it to kyle in the first place didnt he?

Originally posted by Big Sexy
The real hard thing for me to grasp is Terminator 2. How could Sara, John, and the Terminator alter the timeline. Wouldn't it be just as fluid and unchangeable as the 1st movie? The fact that they altered the timeline for judgement day is weird to me. Wouldn't that moment of the terminator returning in time be an unchangeable part of Johns life just like kyle being his father.

That is a big problem with the second movie. The third movie compounds the problem even further. There really wasn't any room for a sequel. Maybe a movie leading up the future war or during it, but the way T2 and T3 were done, they really don't mesh at all with the original movie.

Its ridiculously clear that James Cameron never wanted to see anything beyond T2. There was so much closure that it in theroy should never have been recovered.

Originally posted by vvvrulz
Its ridiculously clear that James Cameron never wanted to see anything beyond T2. There was so much closure that it in theroy should never have been recovered.

What about the arm that got torn off in in between the two steel cogs in the steel mill ?

Benhacker

I never thought of that.

However, that arm had no chip, it was just an arm basically.

Originally posted by Benhacker
What about the arm that got torn off in in between the two steel cogs in the steel mill ?

Benhacker
Heh, really good point. However, it was the chip that created Skynet, not the arm.

Originally posted by Konjammenson
Heh, really good point. However, it was the chip that created Skynet, not the arm.

In the novels there are high tech circuitry in the arm of the T-800 Terminator

Benhacker

You couldn't really do much with a mangled cyborg arm wedged in between two cogs. It might've looked pretty advanced for its time, but it didn't have any particular use.

However, if it was Arnie's cyborg head wedged in the cogs, then they might've been able to recover something from it, such as the microprocessor chip for example lol. But only it was still intact/in working order?

But an arm? I'm not too sure an arm alone could've led to T3 happening hehe!

Ah but Mostow found a way..

It was mentioned in the T2 Infilitrator novel that the arm had advanced circuits and relays that they used to start developing the hardware. The materials of the arm were also more advanced so that spurred on some development as well. Afterward it is was found that Dyson had kept his own offsite backups at his house. The infilitrator found these backups and used them as a bargaining chip to get inside the company and help spur on the production of SkyNet.

Of course that doesn't fit with the T3 storyline, but it's possible that Dyson or Cyberdyne had backups. This would have slowed down the development of the chip (because they didn't have the chip itself anymore, but just research based on it) thus prolonging Judgment Day. The only problem is that Terminator relies on an infinite loop so Judgment Day should have always been postponed. Sarah should have always tried to stop Judgment Day and should have always only postponed it.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
The real hard thing for me to grasp is Terminator 2. How could Sara, John, and the Terminator alter the timeline. Wouldn't it be just as fluid and unchangeable as the 1st movie?

Yeah I know.


kinda goes with the whole Judgment day being inevitable thing from T3.


Do you think only one guy or company would come up with idea for a chip or computer that runs automonously, makes decisions and learns.

That would postpone it.

Though I don't why the terminator in T3 knew that if history was altered.

I don't debate about timetravel movies anymore. If I like it for whatever it is, then thats fine with me.

Does anyone have The Terminator (widescreen) on tape? The scene cutting his eye you can see the full face reflection on the mirror. Only his hand is shown on DVD.

Its interesting to read some of your posts but i think you guys are over analysing things with the whole altered timeline talk.

I think it comes down to this: when the original Terminator was made (early 80s) James Camerron and Arnie were relatively unknowns. They made Terminator on a tight budget and probably had no idea it would become the HUGE hit it did! With that in mind they had Reese sleep with Sarah never knowing that it would essentially screw up the whole notion of them traveling back through time to save her and that John Conner had sent Reese to protect her. It had to do with what seemed the logical thing to do in the script. The writers weren't planning on how potential sequels would lead to inconsistencies.

Originally posted by chriscaffee
It's an infinite loop. Kyle Reese was always John's father. There is no "original" timeline.

..It's not an infinite loop. It's called a 'predestination paradox'. God some of you people are stupid to catch on.