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Geonosis Arena, with Blasters firing everywhere between Droids and Clones

Yoda vs Sidious - The Arena Seats
Mace vs Dooku - Spectator Box
Kenobi vs Maul - Arena Floor

Maul in this fight knows all Dark Side Powers(Crush, Lightning, ect ect) to make it more fair, the Fighters can move to assist others, and use anything in the arena

Who survives? Who wins?

1. Yoda.
2. Mace.
3. Kenobi (unless it's what Maul would have become by ROTS in which case he pwns him badly).

1. Sidious
2. Mace
3. Maul, cause he knows all the Force moves
Then Sidious and Maul beat Mace, giving the sith the win.

1. Yoda (it's a stalemate but Mace comes to the rescue)
2. Mace
3. Kenobi uses his terrain by blocking shots at Maul and then using his Soresu to overcome the Zabrak.

dooku would beat obi.

mace would beat maul.

mace would beat dooku.

yoda and mace would beat sidious, if yoda isn't dead.

Read the first post, Windu...

Dooku would defeat Mace. He's done it before, he can do it again.

And giving Maul all Dark Side powers would not make it fair in the least! Rather he should be given ten years experience...

Originally posted by Captain REX
Read the first post, Windu...

Dooku would defeat Mace. He's done it before, he can do it again.

And giving Maul all Dark Side powers would not make it fair in the least! Rather he should be given ten years experience...

Done, 10 Years Experience it is

He still loses.

I see Yoda beating Sids, then helping Mace take out Dooku, while Obi-Wan destroys Maul eventually.

Maul with ten years experience would be on Dooku and Mace's level imo. Probs even better.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Read the first post, Windu...

Dooku would defeat Mace. He's done it before, he can do it again.

And giving Maul all Dark Side powers would not make it fair in the least! Rather he should be given ten years experience...

False assumption Rex. By your logic because Obiwan beat Anakin, he could do it again.. They fought a long time ago and this was before Mace learned his shatterpoint technique, so I highly doubt Dooku would beat him if Sidious couldn't be.

Didn't Mace learn his Shatterpoint technique when he was a child?

It was totally innate, Mace's been able to use it forever

Originally posted by Jen'ari
Maul with ten years experience would be on Dooku and Mace's level imo. Probs even better.


I doubt that. He wouldn't have surpassed Sidious I belive it was stated....

Maul was muscle, Dooku was brains. I think that was demonstrated well in the movies. The only force that I saw Maul use was a froce throw. Maul had been trained by palps since he was a child, so even by TPM, Maul SHOULD HAVE been alot more on point. I know he took out Qui Gon, but he lost to OB1,and had no impressive display of force powers to speak of. I doubt that in the next 10 years he would have improved vastly.

I think that OB1 takes out Maul first, helps Mace take out Dooku, and then they all stomp a Stone Cold type mudhole in Sid's ass.

But im not saying that Sid's cant move to help kill a Jedi too, but i think his hands would be too full with Yoda. He got plain lucky in ROTS. I dont care how you slice it.

I think if Maul lived till ROTS he'd be about as strong as Anakin, but that's with 13 years more experience. With just ten years more I'd put him about on par with Dooku, slightly less with the Force, slightly stronger with a saber.

all the jedi win

Yeah, Obi beats Maul again, Mace beats Dooku easily and Obi and Mace help Yoda beat Sidious.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I think if Maul lived till ROTS he'd be about as strong as Anakin, but that's with 13 years more experience. With just ten years more I'd put him about on par with Dooku, slightly less with the Force, slightly stronger with a saber.

what? Dooku was one of the BEST swordsman EVER. And I'm not a Dooku fanboy either, i didnt care for him too much, but he was way more of a badass with a saber than Maul...i mean he bested Mace once. I think Maul was about peaked out.

Originally posted by Darth Sexiest
Mace beats Dooku easily

Utter bullsh*t.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Utter bullsh*t.

Well he has a Point, Vaapad > Makashi, and there is Shatterpoint factor

You also have to add in the factors that Dooku has about 40 - 50 years more experience, has extensive knowledge of the dark side, has been taught by both Yoda and Sidious - the two greatest force users of the time and has beaten Mace before. Either way it will not be an easy battle.

not easy, but i think Mace would beat him. I dont care what anyone says, MACE BEAT SIDIOUS! You can play that angle that Sidious was playing Anakin, but he was already on his back before Anakin walked in. Maybe once he was in there he was, saying he was too weak and all that, but if Anakin didnt interfere, Sids would have been gone.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Well he has a Point, Vaapad > Makashi, and there is Shatterpoint factor

Voice of reason.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
not easy, but i think Mace would beat him. I dont care what anyone says, MACE BEAT SIDIOUS! You can play that angle that Sidious was playing Anakin, but he was already on his back before Anakin walked in. Maybe once he was in there he was, saying he was too weak and all that, but if Anakin didnt interfere, Sids would have been gone.

Voice of reason.

also, i just wanted to add some proof. This is from Sidious' databank profile:

The Jedi eventually discovered Palpatine's Sith leanings and confronted the Chancellor. Sidious lashed out with blinding speed, brandishing a previously hidden lightsaber blade in a sudden strike that killed all of the Jedi Masters Mace Windu had assembled to arrest the Chancellor. With Anakin Skywalker's help, Sidious was able to defeat Mace, though he was severely scarred by the reflected power of his dark side lightning. To conceal his disfigured visage, Sidious returned to his simple Sith robes.

Note it says he needed "anakin's help".

so...mace takes palps, yoda takes dooku, and OB1 takes Maul...again.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
also, i just wanted to add some proof. This is from Sidious' databank profile:

The Jedi eventually discovered Palpatine's Sith leanings and confronted the Chancellor. Sidious lashed out with blinding speed, brandishing a previously hidden lightsaber blade in a sudden strike that killed all of the Jedi Masters Mace Windu had assembled to arrest the Chancellor. With Anakin Skywalker's help, Sidious was able to defeat Mace, though he was severely scarred by the reflected power of his dark side lightning. To conceal his disfigured visage, Sidious returned to his simple Sith robes.

Note it says he needed "anakin's help".

so...mace takes palps, yoda takes dooku, and OB1 takes Maul...again.

Too bad it's Sids fighting Yoda, and Mace fighting Dooku, though you must remember, had Yoda not been knocked to the ground, he could have continued fighting, Clones were on their way

The problem lies in Kenobi/Maul. Dooku/Mace and Sidious/Yoda will be by no means over in any short order. Maul is the weak link. He dies and Kenobi adds a little to each fight. Of course, this little may be just enough to off-set the virtual equals that are fighting. Unless Dooku or Sidiousdisposes of him quickly after Maul is toast, he could tip the balance ver so slightly in favor of the Jedi.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
The problem lies in Kenobi/Maul. Dooku/Mace and Sidious/Yoda will be by no means over in any short order. Maul is the weak link. He dies and Kenobi adds a little to each fight. Of course, this little may be just enough to off-set the virtual equals that are fighting. Unless Dooku or Sidiousdisposes of him quickly after Maul is toast, he could tip the balance ver so slightly in favor of the Jedi.

Again, this Maul has 10 Years extra experience, we can easily assume his combat ability will be up with the greatest, and Obi-Wan's Soresu doesn't make for a quick fight, especialy against Juyo

to be honest i dodnt look at the 1st post to see that the three battles were set, I thought it was just group a vs group b. Its hard to say cause Maul doesnt know those things and its not fair to give him those and not bump up OB1. OB1 was better than Maul fair and square. I know thats subject for debate itself, but he killed him out of Maul's arrogance (wow, OB1 sure seems to get LUCKY with those arrogant sith...hmmm) But if thats the case and Maul is equal to the other two, then they take it. No questions asked.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
OB1 was better than Maul fair and square. I know thats subject for debate itself, but he killed him out of Maul's arrogance (wow, OB1 sure seems to get LUCKY with those arrogant sith...hmmm).

Wait, are you saying TPM Kenobi is better than Maul? If so, you couldn't be any more wrong, and it's not up for debate. If you mean AOTC Kenobi (closer, but I wouldn't claim Obi-Wan the better without looking into all the facts), then maybe. If you mean ROTS Kenobi, then definitely he is better than Maul.

The most important is Dooku/Mace, this is probably the determining factor, as it will be the quickest, Obi-Wan's Soresu prolongs fights, and Sidious/Yoda are about equal, so let's figure out Mace/Dooku, and then move on from there

Well Dooku can just force choke/push Mace out of the spectator box. Like he did to Kenobi in ROTS.

Wonderful argument, Rampant. I do hope you were joking (though, knowing you and Dooku - that's unlikely).

Actually, in terms of pure swordsmanship I would say that Obi-Wan (unleashed, that is, using the darkside to help fuel him) has a slight edge over Maul. I seem to rememebr Maul getting dropped flat on his ass by a very pissed off kenobi, and then sliced in half a few minutes later.

Actually Advent, I mixed a few different thought s up here...I was saying that ROTS OB1 is better, but i used TPM version as an example. But really if youthink about it, the only time maul had the uperhand in the one on one portion, was when he pushed OB1 back, other than that, Kenobi was goin to twon. But i know that doesnt mean Kenobi was better, just pointing that out. But yea, i just had a few wires crossed there.

Originally posted by Blax X
Actually, in terms of pure swordsmanship I would say that Obi-Wan (unleashed, that is, using the darkside to help fuel him) has a slight edge over Maul. I seem to rememebr Maul getting dropped flat on his ass by a very pissed off kenobi, and then sliced in half a few minutes later.

I seem to remember Maul being caught off guard by an enraged Obi-Wan, and that's the only reason Kenobi was able to match him temporarily and slice his saber in half. Afterwards, when Maul's frenzy increased - he gained the upper hand, it was only for the moment that Obi-Wan was pissed, he didn't get any better - he just surprised Maul. It doesn't mean he's the better swordsman. Obi-Wan in ROTS kicked Anakin, and tripped him. Is Obi-Wan a better duelist than Anakin?

Short answer: Hell no.

I doubt the Obi-"Jet Lee" Kenobi (unleashed, lol) is a better swordsman than Qui-Gon attacking with a "ferocity not seen before" and a "fresh reserve of strength" or even TPM Mace Windu is absurd. Anyways, as noted by both the novelization and script:

"But Darth Maul was the stronger of the two and was driven by a frenzy that surpassed even the frantic determination that fueled Obi-Wan. Eventually, the Sith Lord began to wear the young Jedi down. Bit by bit, he pressed him back, carrying the attack to him, looking to catch him off guard. Obi-Wan could sense his body weakening, and his fear of what it would mean if he, too, were to fall, began to grow. "

"DARTH MAUL seems to have the upper hand as OBI-WAN grows weary."

I also seem to remember Kenobi getting overpowered in the saberlock, only to get Force pushed into a shaft, and through pure luck alone - not skill - managed to get the jump on Maul because he was acting like an arrogant jackass when he had Kenobi beat, and wasted roughly half a minute doing such.

Maul > Kenobi. This is apparent throughout the entire duel, save for one moment. To assume Obi-Wan, even pissed off, is better than Maul is ridiculous when you consider Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's "best efforts" weren't enough to stop Maul, and that he was described as "keeping them both at bay, constantly attacking while at the same time effectively blunting their counterattacks". And it's also nice that you say Maul was "sliced in half minutes later", but don't include why Maul was cleaved in two. Thankfully, we have Advent to provide that reason, so people don't misunderstand.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
But really if youthink about it, the only time maul had the uperhand in the one on one portion, was when he pushed OB1 back, other than that, Kenobi was goin to twon.

Kenobi was never going to win. Why, you ask? Because Maul has more determination, and as noted above, got into a frenzy that surpassed Obi-Wan's. Maul would never be beaten by Kenobi in a straight out duel. He was surprised, but once that ended he regained his composure and regained his status as the dominant fighter.

The real reason Maul died was because Obi-Wan had to live through 3 more movies

clappingnotworthy All hail Advent...we love you!!! nah, but good point(s). I do agree, especially with the luck theory, as ive said plenty lately, but OB1 did put up a helluva fight after qui gon got killed.

Kenobi was never going to win. Why, you ask? Because Maul has more determination, and as noted above, got into a frenzy that surpassed Obi-Wan's. Maul would never be beaten by Kenobi in a straight out duel. He was surprised, but once that ended he regained his composure and regained his status as the dominant fighter.

i know...he;d get owned..

Originally posted by Advent
Wonderful argument, Rampant. I do hope you were joking (though, knowing you and Dooku - that's unlikely).

Why thankyou. Sometimes you are just to kind for little old me to comprehend.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
The real reason Maul died was because Obi-Wan had to live through 3 more movies

Lol, amen.

hey Ox, can you answer my last questionin the chess tourny thread?

Ill have a look.

Originally posted by Advent
I seem to remember Maul being caught off guard by an enraged Obi-Wan, and that's the only reason Kenobi was able to match him temporarily and slice his saber in half. Afterwards, when Maul's frenzy increased - he gained the upper hand, it was only for the moment that Obi-Wan was pissed, he didn't get any better - he just surprised Maul. It doesn't mean he's the better swordsman. Obi-Wan in ROTS kicked Anakin, and tripped him. Is Obi-Wan a better duelist than Anakin?

Short answer: Hell no.

I doubt the Obi-"Jet Lee" Kenobi (unleashed, lol) is a better swordsman than Qui-Gon attacking with a "ferocity not seen before" and a "fresh reserve of strength" or even TPM Mace Windu is absurd. Anyways, as noted by both the novelization and script:

"But Darth Maul was the stronger of the two and was driven by a frenzy that surpassed even the frantic determination that fueled Obi-Wan. Eventually, the Sith Lord began to wear the young Jedi down. Bit by bit, he pressed him back, carrying the attack to him, looking to catch him off guard. Obi-Wan could sense his body weakening, and his fear of what it would mean if he, too, were to fall, began to grow. "

"DARTH MAUL seems to have the upper hand as OBI-WAN grows weary."

I also seem to remember Kenobi getting overpowered in the saberlock, only to get Force pushed into a shaft, and through pure luck alone - not skill - managed to get the jump on Maul because he was acting like an arrogant jackass when he had Kenobi beat, and wasted roughly half a minute doing such.

Maul > Kenobi. This is apparent throughout the entire duel, save for one moment. To assume Obi-Wan, even pissed off, is better than Maul is ridiculous when you consider Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's "best efforts" weren't enough to stop Maul, and that he was described as "keeping them both at bay, constantly attacking while at the same time effectively blunting their counterattacks". And it's also nice that you say Maul was "sliced in half minutes later", but don't include why Maul was cleaved in two. Thankfully, we have Advent to provide that reason, so people don't misunderstand.



Thanks Advent, you're always so good at making things simpler ^_^ Although you never repleid to my pm...

1. Sidious
2. Dooku
3. Kenobi

Sith win

Originally posted by Blax X
Actually, in terms of pure swordsmanship I would say that Obi-Wan (unleashed, that is, using the darkside to help fuel him) has a slight edge over Maul. I seem to rememebr Maul getting dropped flat on his ass by a very pissed off kenobi, and then sliced in half a few minutes later.


Obi-Wan diden't use the Darkside to fuel his attacks.
He was actually still under control, and used some raw emotion(That was perfectly tapped) to fuel his attacks.

He diden't use the Darkside though.

When the Jedi became separated, Maul killed Qui-Gon with a well-placed saber strike. Kenobi, enraged, attacked Maul. This barrage was deflected by Maul who used Obi-Wan's touching of the dark side as a conduit for a Force attack; using the Force, Maul pushed Obi-Wan into a deep mining pit. Kenobi held onto an outcropping for dear life. Calming himself by calling upon the light side of the Force, Kenobi was able to surprise Maul, and cleave him in half with his saber. - Star Wars Databank

you were saying?

yea you just dont want to admit it.....its alright though

lol...thank you...thats what i was thinking...i thought it got kinda quiet in here!!