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Ok I know everybody is a little stressed out and being alittle negative about the jack/liz relationship.

we all need to calm down and support eachother lol we really do
bc when someone is negative that negativeness is like a bad cold it gets everywhere and then ppl are all stressed out and in chaos.

so we need to stay calm and be positive so it could spread in a positive way!!

We all have great theories to support and why liz/jack should belong together. our theories are never wasted and will never be wasted! We are intelligent ppl who have good reasons on why these 2 should be together!!!

so we need to stay positive block all the negativity from the interenet especially the ass holes from KTTC and other internet. making up shit. we take no bull shit!!

and that is that.

lol good idea for a thread.

OMGSH i love this thread. HAHAHAHAHA love it.... LOL... we are like a support group. its hilarious.

keep the faith people...

this is the hippie-love thread. big hug, bonfire, kumbaya!!!

lets meditate!! come on all together now
"aauuuum..auuuummm..auuuuum"
now all we need is some camp fire lol

I love your sig Chiki Mina!

This thread remind sme of Fight Club because he went to tons of support groups..

I'm not really that stressed out about the whole Jack/Liz thing. I want them to be together, but even if they aren't I know the writers are going to do it in a good way and the movie will be incredible anyways.

oh gosh thanx lool im gonna try to add a quote lol

im gonna add all the liz jack pics i chave so we could all be happy slappy!!

this is officially my fav thread! i need therapy badly! i have too many doubts bout Liz and Jack....but screw it! im here now! WOOOH!

come on meditate "auuuum, auuuuum, auuummm" loooool

what are ur doubts exactly maybe i could help-well all of us!!! u need positiveness!!

will ittt happennn i cant wait till may '07 lol

i know!! wow i have a good feeling. disney will not dissapoint us and im sure the actors know what we want.

they should take a world-wide poll to see what the audience would like more..

What if Disney WANTS us to think it will end up J/L but then they turn EVERYTHING around and it end up W/L? What if this is all a trick?!

that would be cruel and i would hate them forever!

Now I'm nervous.I want to know how it'll end.

me 2!!! i need serious therapy! if Liz and Will end up together i will go through a depression

yeah yeah that would suck
though i would think that they would want their audience happy...'cause thats the way they're going to profit the most

ppssshhh!!!

Originally posted by CaptinJackLover
me 2!!! i need serious therapy! if Liz and Will end up together i will go through a depression

ME TOO!!!!!!

ugh...im gonna be like biting my nails the entire movie!! aHHHH!!

AAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

i cnat wait this long to see it! its taking forever!

i no! hurry!

I'M GOING TO DIE WAITING!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

*already dead*death

ditto!

lol

rip

OK U GUYS!!!!!!!!! CHILLL!!!!!!!!!

disney is not the type to trick us!! they could never play with us

disney is the type to surprise u to give u what u want. not to give u a dirty trick!!

since they know we want jack/liz mickey mouse and the gang are not gonna laugh at our faces bc they tricked us!!!

i still have my faith in disney and us!!!

i dont. i lost it like 4 months ago

no mickey mouse and gang like to laugh...i bet they are laughing right this minute!

SEEE WHAT I MEAN!!!

when one person is negative it is spread like a very bad cold..everyone gets all negative and start to fall apart and loose hope!!

noooooooo come on our theories meant something and we are not obsessed!!! we have kick ass theories!!!

its not only our theories is the pattern that we see!!!

Originally posted by Chiki Mina


disney is the type to surprise u ...

THERE! 'Nuff said! I still want J/L, but it's almost time for the movie and we have to think.

ok fine...

think of what??

the only thing i could think of is how these 2 fit so well with eachother.

We have to think about what Disney will REALLY do. Will they do something we will expect or not.

Think about this:

In the first movie,before we knew about the 2nd and 3rd, we all thought it will be Will and Liz because of the kiss. BUT,when the second came out and we saw Jack and Liz together,I'm sure many of us were like, 'WOW! Didn't see that coming!'
We are NOW thinking it will be J/L.They can change the whole story by one or two scenes. The 'Persuade Me' scene and the kissing one are examples.

Okay my problem is this. we keep saying, oh Disney will give us what they want.... but a good portion of people out there (cough cough kttc spit spit) really want Will. so they have to disappoint someone. what if its us?

sniff sniff. sorry trying to stay positive.

when in doubt, we'll just turn to lovelyone and willo for reminders on the theories. LOL.

here's a bit of happiness: i've been told we can expect at least one Jack/Liz scene in the deleted scenes on the dvd!!!!

I think there will be more than that.

i know but im sure they were saving the best for last. they were planning this jack/liz relationship to happen.

plus they cant just let liz bounce of these 2 characters.
liz/will jack/liz the will/liz again. shes no ping pong.

it will hurt liz character alot more than it is now after she chained him up(jack)

they know ppl wont be happy seeing at the end with 2 whores or with his crew only

it will be and awefull lesson ending with a movie with jack with 2 whores and ending u with herpes or gonorrea(spelling) Pirates of the Carribean not herpes of the caribbean!!

ppl will not be happy and disney wnt risk letting the ratings down for 2 whores!!

go as negative as u want! no one cares! they stay negative anyway!

we have 7 months left. i remember when we had 9 months left...

wow but now its gotten worse cuz we worry more now!

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
i know but im sure they were saving the best for last. they were planning this jack/liz relationship to happen.

plus they cant just let liz bounce of these 2 characters.
liz/will jack/liz the will/liz again. shes no ping pong.

it will hurt liz character alot more than it is now after she chained him up(jack)

they know ppl wont be happy seeing at the end with 2 whores or with his crew only

it will be and awefull lesson ending with a movie with jack with 2 whores and ending u with herpes or gonorrea(spelling) Pirates of the Carribean not herpes of the caribbean!!

ppl will not be happy and disney wnt risk letting the ratings down for 2 whores!!



EWWW! I can't see Jack leaving with Giselle and Scarlet! Just not right,plus they slap him every chance they get.

i say those whores should die. or end up with beckett.

lol yeah! Beckett!

i dont think the 2 whores could go with beckett lol i think jack *snip snip*
his safety deposit lol

ha ha ha ha

im gonna post some pics and POSITIVE INFO so ppl could be freekin happy lol

hehe

yea i know im annyoing trying to be all happy but hey whats better being happy or being all ****ed up in chaos?

I know we are supposed to be possitive here but part of being positive and therapy and all that is to SHED your negativity and worries so can I just say one thing? imagine now if we go to the movies...all anxiouse..all worrying but still happy..the movie is geat lots of good liz/jack moments there and liz/will have conflicts and they defeat bucket head and all those other crappy people and what if...(don't kill me just saying the worst that can happen) the last thing we see is liz kissing will and jack making a witty farewel to them and leaving in the pearl. WHAT WILL WE DO THEN? I'm seriouse..WHAT WILL WE DO IN OUR LIFE? what will we daydream about? what stories will we write HUH? I mean I always said if will/liz end up together I would kill myself but..I never really thought of it in a literal sense you know? ok sorry you guys I really need therapy I'll shut up now

Oh no now I'm panicking I would have to live pointlessly for the rest of my life - which would be extrmely short cuz i'm most likely gona fall into a depression and committ suiciderip... ok maybe I was a tad too dramatic...

Come on, mates, do not be so worried. Can you believe Disney would allow a major leak 7 months before the film? It's a hoax.

ahem... apologies for panicking thus doing the oposite to what this thread is for... I'm gona try and stay calm and peaceful

lets stay positive...

i'm gona go stare at the pic of jack with the eyes that makes me calm and positiveJumpy

ok i know that lst post woz stupid i ment the 1 when he has eyes painted on his face..

whoa even in the therapy thread people are having mixed emotions

KEEP THE FAITH!

But do you know what? atm atleast we have the upperhand over the W/L shippers.

We got OUR kiss at the end and then elizabeth regretting what she did...what do the W/L shippers have???

WILL THROWING HIS KNIFE AT A TABLE IN FRUSTRATION.
And the notion that he's just seen his 'fiancee' kissing the man she is supposed to be with.

Tah-dah!

So yeah, IMO we have the upperhand

If they end it the wrong way we should have a riot forceing htem to make a 4th and make j/l end up together

lol..you know..there's always fanfic

Originally posted by tee_pirategirl
I know we are supposed to be possitive here but part of being positive and therapy and all that is to SHED your negativity and worries so can I just say one thing? imagine now if we go to the movies...all anxiouse..all worrying but still happy..the movie is geat lots of good liz/jack moments there and liz/will have conflicts and they defeat bucket head and all those other crappy people and what if...(don't kill me just saying the worst that can happen) the last thing we see is liz kissing will and jack making a witty farewel to them and leaving in the pearl. WHAT WILL WE DO THEN? I'm seriouse..WHAT WILL WE DO IN OUR LIFE? what will we daydream about? what stories will we write HUH? I mean I always said if will/liz end up together I would kill myself but..I never really thought of it in a literal sense you know? ok sorry you guys I really need therapy I'll shut up now


in my opinion, we would all be perfectly fine... yeah, it would be disappointing, but there are several factors that would probably make it less painful than we think.

1. tt are awesome writers, and whatever happens, they will make it WORK... they will draw us in and get us to WANT they ending they give us... savvy? they will deliver and fabulous film and all the resolution we need. i hope.

2. there is a psychological principle wherein people think they will be more disappointed about something than they actually are if it happens.

3. FAN FICS ON THIS FORUM!!!!!!

yes to the first yes to the second but so long as the fan fic stays as good as it is now

Yes, we do need this thread. I started one similar to this last month calling it "help I'm on a rollercoaster ride"...because one day I'm up and one day I'm down...and sometimes its from post to post...minutes even..up and down. So frustrating.

At this point in time, it is hard to speculate on what Disney is up to. IMO, if we look at all the theories and symbolisms of DMC then there can be no way that they wouldn't unite Jack and Liz together....but if tie the two movies together...it could be Will/LIz.....and whoever said this...maybe it was Kate...yes, we will be all disappointed if it's not Jack/Liz, but the same applies to the Will/Liz shippers...so Disney really took a huge risk when they decided to use Jack in this love triangle. Jack is the central character...or the money character...because if you think about the 2 movies, in some ways, Elizabeth is the central character...both movies start with her, and she is in many scenes where she is by herself without Will, Jack or James, so she is definitely the heroine. Jack has emerged as the hero. Not sure where I'm going with this. On other threads we have also mentioned the fact that Will could turn bad in movie 3...if this happens, then what of his DAd...I really don't know if Will is going to turn evil. Oh this movie is so confusing.

Found something I read on another thread one day and don't know if it's true, maybe one of you girls that have time could do some research. Okay here it goes. Orginally it was said that they would only need August, September and October to finish filming the third movie, because many of the scenes from POTC 3 had been filmed in combination with DMC. But then (from another forum I found on internet) someone is saying that Disney has announced that they will continue filming through March of next year....if this is true....what can it mean...maybe based on the results of DMC and the audience's reaction to it, maybe, just maybe it means they have had to do a lot of refilming and rewriting to ensure that AWE is just as popular, if not more so...
so....maybe there is hope. Just not sure how true this is...can anyone find out if this is in fact true?????

it IS tru in an interview with jerry he said they will PROBABLY need more time(probably march but not definite) when asked why he said it was beacause they had some problems with the weather and also one of their water tanks and some of the equipment had problem so...but maybe he doesn't wanna SAY that they've done re-filming and stuff...I'll try to post the interview here and..there was another interview with gore about the characters and he said will is going to get darker not evil meaning he will probably hurt jack and/or liz in order to save his dad he will basicly become more selfish and dark but not full on evil

yeah i think its significant that the filming keeps getting extended... this is going to cost them more money, which means they are banking on a huge pay off for 3.

IMO, huge payoff means they need to make their money character happy.

what else? controversy sells!!!!! leave liz with will, and thats expected, its normal, it makes sense. put liz with jack? talk about headline news!!!!! lol.

but guys, i am having imagination problems. i cant cook up a reasonable ending for Will if he doest get Liz, but i can (by stretching things a bit) see Jack being resolved without the girl.
can you guys help me this? Like, how would they resolve the character of will without liz?
and i dont think his dad is an adequate excuse.
i just need some help understanding that.

i am getting excited to see where the character of Elizabeth is going to go...

yeah I have some problem with that too..like i've said alot I can imagine jack running off with making a joke and leaving lizzie and will behing but I don't get as how lizzie and jack can leave will standing all alone

right exactly!!! errr its so hard to imagine...


maybe they will just piss off the will/liz people AND the liz/jack shippers. they will have Elizabeth turn into a total pirate and she will be like,

Jack, it never would have worked between us. I'm sorry darling.
Will, nice sword...

and then she'll turn around and jump on her own ship and be like, "Gentlemen, you will always remember this as the day you almost married Captain Elizabeth Swann!

That would be funny....but I think in the original trailer they'll not give anything away!

welll i present to you will's resolution...:

Will: Jack, Elzabeth...I must confess something....I'm...a...bugger (gay)

lol...j/k...can't think of one either...

oh my got kate and leo what you guys said was so funny...I can see the gay thing happening..ok not really but still very close to reality..and OMG this is the day you almost married captain elizabeth swann? so savvy

I have been watching u guys and seeming alil more pistive hee hee.

"i have been watching u my children" lol sry just felt like saying that.

ahem..well im oretty sure Wills character will not be standing alone in the secon. Bc he will be with his father. Why u think they wanted to show wills father in the second.

they couldnt put liz and jack together in the first then it will leave WIll on his own and would hurt both characters and the plot. but now that wills childhood dream had finally came treu, he has his father. But the scary part his he'll do anything and kill anyone in his way in order to be with his father.

thats has been his long time dream. problem was liz got in the way and he fell in love. i suppose there was a reason for that. maybe it was saving him from danger. I suppose thiis is all a reason.

I still do beilieve that jack and liz will be together and im not obsessed or anything in wanting to believe, i just have a strong feeling. and im sure sure sure that mr turner will find a better gurl some one whos like him.

Hey guys i wasnt sure where to put this (because it doesnt need a post of its own really, so i thought i would shove it in here lol)

Its an interview with ted/Terry (My apologies if it has already been posted) on DMC.

What i found interesting was this;



Q: But by the same token, you now have known, popular characters with back stories to play with. Did you discover any advantages?

Ted Elliot: Because of the unanticipated level of response audiences had to the first one, they have created in their minds what they expect the second one to be. We can actually take advantage of that to surprise them.


Q: In a nutshell, what's definitive about Dead Man's Chest?

Terry Rossio: The jumping off point was to look at the story from the point of view of the Jack Sparrow character. People really like the Jack Sparrow character. I think most people think he's a good guy so, is it really true that Jack is a good guy? It's a lot of fun to put Jack in trouble, particularly the kind of trouble that helps reveal what type of character he really is.

Ted Elliot: We've created a fantasy world where we've rejected the Manichaean dualism common to most fantasy worlds. How's that?

Q: Whoa, my head just broke a little.

Ted Elliot: In other words, there is no clear good side or bad side. We just found that much more enjoyable and entertaining.

Q: So essentially Dead Man's Chest is a deeper exploration of what exactly is up with Sparrow?

Ted Elliot: Exactly. And in so doing, it gets into a further examination of Will (Orlando Bloom) and Elizabeth's (Keira Knightley) characters and as well.


So it was as we suspected all along....although the first movie was elizabeths adventure etc, movie 2 is clearly jack sparrow orientated.
The writers have realised the audience like jack...they look for audience reaction!

THEY MUST REALISE HOW WELL JACK/LIZ HAS BEEN RECIEVED!




ALSO:

THE MEANING OF MANICHAEAN DUALISM;
There are two natures that existed from the beginning: light and darkness. The realm of light lived in peace, while the realm of darkness was in constant conflict with itself. The universe is the temporary result of an attack from the realm of darkness on the realm of light, and was created by the Living Spirit, an emanation of the light realm, out of the mixture of light and darkness.

also...there is something that i think LovelyOne would find interesting about this manichaen dualism;

One of the striking features of Manichaeism from its inception, is that it presents an elaborate description of the conflict between the spiritual world of light and the material world of darkness.

Jack and his material posessions??? ...i dunno, im just guessing lol



I dont know about you guys, but this term of expression seems really interesting to me....









http://www.wga.org/subpage.aspx?id=2071

it seems to me that the spiritual world of light meaning jacks soul/spirirt has been save by liz-by love. And he actually sees the light and the meaning of his life. He learns that life isnt complete without someone there to love u.

material word of darkness meaning he was blinded by gold treassure, and many material things
that left him in a drak world by himself. material things cant love u back nor it can protect u. and it leaves him in a dark world with no warmth-no light

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
it seems to me that the spiritual world of light meaning jacks soul/spirirt has been save by liz-by love. And he actually sees the light and the meaning of his life. He learns that life isnt complete without someone there to love u.

material word of darkness meaning he was blinded by gold treassure, and many material things
that left him in a drak world by himself. material things cant love u back nor it can protect u. and it leaves him in a dark world with no warmth-no light

VERY GOOD POINT!

But the writers state;

Ted Elliot: We've created a fantasy world where we've rejected the Manichaean dualism common to most fantasy worlds.

....when they sort have kept it in.....jack is in conflict with himself throughout the whole film...and this is also an aspect of manichaean dualism...the dark is in conflict with itself...

my only guess would be that jack is 'delivered' to the light when elizabeth sets him free....

also i found on an internet sight that another form of manichaean dualism is the contrasts between orthodoxy and freedom.....

orthodoxy..but whats that. some kind of theoligical thing? observance of religion?

orthodox:

The word orthodoxy, from the Greek ortho ('right', 'correct') and doxa ('thought', 'teaching', 'glorification'), is typically used to refer to the correct theological or doctrinal observance of religion

so if put into context with the film.....

its the right view of the life you should CHOOSE, over the freedom of what life you really WANT....


i think? .... hmmmmm....

when religion comes into it then it gets messy....but i guess the same rule applies to the film, jst without the religoin??

am i on the right track??

gah, i dont know lmao

i think u are!!
everyne has the right to choose. they have the freedom to choose

but only if thats what they want. bc everyday u have to make choices and it could either be positive or neagtive. wither way it will be a choice that will affect ur life.

AWESOME THREAD!!!!

oopsy, anyway, I think you're all on to something with the whole orthodoxy freedom to choose thingy...also, they're always saying they like to suprise people, and though there are those of us on this thread who think that jack/liz are meant to be together, there are those on many, many other threads that are actually official potc fan sites, that think will/liz should be together, which means that if they are going to suprise the majority, they may end it with a jack/liz ending after all

^^OMG SO TRUE!!LMAO

i think that the ones who are gonna be surprised are the ppl from KTTC. omg lool i cannot wait!!! they are n complete denial and they always try to put us down everytime we have something good coming. whenever we have a very good theory or point about jack liz relationship tor the characters they get all bitchy with us and start to make shit up saying that ted or terry said will/liz are gonna end up together and crap like that.

the more i see those ppl bothering us the more i smile bc i know that we are smacking them with good points and reasonable theories!!! MWAHAHA!! lol

the reason that ted/terry havent mentioned anything about the j/l relationship could actually be because they dont want to give anything away, and the fact that they ARE hinting about the w/l thing should give us hope, i mean, they made this movie so big by SHOCKING us, so if they went and hinted the ending, then how would they get it past the billion mark, i mean, they must see that it only went so far is b/c of the j/l kiss, b/c w/o that they probably would have made it about the same as the 1st!!!

so if they rejected the tradition theory of DUALISM, then that pretty much invalidates a lot of the Liz, Jack conversations about being a good man versus being a selfish, immoral man... in a strange way.

that would mean that it doesnt MATTER whether Jack (or any character) is GOOD or BAD, rather, what matters is that they ARE... they EXIST and LIVE, and their growth in ANY direction is seen as more important than an ultimate wrong or right.

next thing, we will bring up Platos allegory of the cave, and Maslows hierarchy of needs, and then we will have it all figured out... LOL...

AHHHH...i dont think i understood a word of what you just said!!!!lol

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is often depicted as a pyramid consisting of five levels: the four lower levels are grouped together as deficiency needs associated with physiological needs, while the top level is termed growth needs associated with psychological needs. While our deficiency needs must be met, our being needs are continually shaping our behaviour. The basic concept is that the higher needs in this hierarchy only come into focus once all the needs that are lower down in the pyramid are mainly or entirely satisfied. Growth forces create upward movement in the hierarchy, whereas regressive forces push prepotent needs further down the hierarchy.


Platos allegory of the cave

Imagine prisoners who have been chained since childhood deep inside a cave. Not only are their limbs immobilized by the chains; their heads are chained as well so that their eyes are fixed on a wall.

Behind the prisoners is an enormous fire, and between the fire and the prisoners is a raised walkway, along which shapes of various animals, plants, and other things are carried. The shapes cast shadows on the wall, which occupy the prisoners' attention. When one of the shape-carriers speaks, an echo against the wall causes the prisoners to believe that the words come from the shadows.

The prisoners engage in what appears to us to be a game - naming the shapes as they come by. This, however, is the only reality that they know, even though they are seeing merely shadows of images. They are thus conditioned to judge the quality of one another by their skill in quickly naming the shapes and dislike those who begin to play poorly.

Suppose a prisoner is released and compelled to stand up and turn around.

His eyes will be blinded by the firelight, and the shapes passing will appear less real than their shadows.

Similarly, if he is dragged up out of the cave into the sunlight, his eyes will be so blinded that he will not be able to see anything.

At first, he will be able to see darker shapes such as shadows and, only later, brighter and brighter objects.

The last object he would be able to see is the sun, which, in time, he would learn to see as that object which provides the seasons and the courses of the year, presides over all things in the visible region, and is in some way the cause of all these things that he has seen.

(This part of the allegory, incidentally, closely matches Plato's metaphor of the sun which occurs near the end of The Republic, Book VI.)

Once enlightened, so to speak, the freed prisoner would no doubt want to return to the cave to free "his fellow bondsmen". The problem, however, lies in the other prisoners' not wanting to be freed: descending back into the cave would require that the freed prisoner's eyes adjust again, and for a time, he would be one of the ones identifying shapes on the wall. His poor eyesight would severly impair his ability to name the shapes, and thus the other prisoners would dislike him to the degree that they have no trust in him and thus take his attempts to free them with murderous agression.


ANd you can enjoy working out how these apply!!!!

sorry that last post was not very anti-stress... it probably just stressed everyone out more. LOL. sorry guys.

WHO would that apply to exactly? I understand the concept, but am having trouble relating it to the movie. sorry, I'm a bit slow...lol

i'll go off and rant on that in the morning... im going to sleep now...

well even if ur stressed out u could also post..

the thing is that we help u in any way so u wont get worried. if u have some kind of doubts or something then we coud clarify

also u can talk about other things if it helps u get ur mind at ease

Yes, I am stressed out over this crazy movie. I so want Jack and Liz to be together...have ever since I saw him rescue her the very first time I ever saw the movie...the very first time I saw Liz and Jack together on screen...being a historical romance junkie...I was convinced that they were the couple...then as the movie unfolded i was disappointed..but just glad to get to see Johnny D in action and so loving the character of Captain Jack Sparrow. Then, when DMC came out...as each scene unfolded between jack and liz...the deeper I fell...I went bizerk...because I have wanted this coupling for so long...I left the movie thinking...okay, this is great...Jack and Liz...but then you read KTTC and all the leaked scripts and interviews and suppose endings to AWE and it's like "why the heck did they do this?" why did they tease the audience with this great chemistry between this great couple for it just to be a bump in the road for the Will/Liz pairing....to me it's so much more...because of the chemistry...how much I enjoy seeing Jack and LIz flirt, fight, kiss, everything...whereas, I really truly could care less if there was ever another scene between Will/Liz cuz I feel no connection between these two...I'm not anti-Will..I do understand his purpose to the story...but I just don't think he is the man for Liz.

But, I guess I should get myself prepared. Cuz as Katelovespirates says....just don't see what would happen to Will if he doesn't go with Liz...I mean I could...but not sure if it's acceptable...it is to me...I really could just see Will's character growing to the part that he accepts that Liz and he have grown in different directions...and that they just aren't meant to be together...it happens everyday in the real world...time heals all things...surely, Will is a much stronger man than to cut his heart out simply because Liz realizes she is in love with someone else. Besides, Will's never known another woman but Liz....he needs to explore some before he commits.

My ultimate ending to AWE...is Will realizing he doesn't want to be married to someone who longs to be with someone else...I think the movie would be awesome...if the entire movie we think it is going to be W/L...and that Jack and Liz deny their feelings...and in fact, sacrifice those feelings thinking it's what the other wants and for Will...and then in the end Will realizes what's going on...and in turn, sacrifices for his two friends...Will could be a strong, independent character...if not, then his character hasn't grown at all over the trilogy. It makes Will's character seem weaker...if his only purpose in life is Liz....

wow lovehtemtigers, that was a really great post. you made my day. its beautiful. it reminded me why i fell for liz and jack in the first place!

its so true... though i admire the character of will, i never enjoy scenes with him and liz like i enjoy the ones with liz and jack... during those i am either laughing hysterically, or overcome with angst and worry, or having my breath taken away. lol.

MAYBE Will will find a new mentor in Norrington, whose honor and decency in film one graciously made way for Liz's feelings... and Will will remember that and decide he wants to be like that, and therefore step aside.

I think it would be a fabulous final scene if Liz and Will look like they are together, and Jack is walking off with those whores, and then suddenly Will turns to Liz and says something like, "If you deny this now, you will just be denying it your whole life. You know I love you, but I think it's time for you to take that pirate life you've always wanted." And Liz runs off to find Jack, and pushes the whores out of the way, and slaps him or something, and says something cheesy about realizing what she wanted, and they kiss and board the pearl together.

And then Norrington and Will could share some funny line about giving chase.

Gee... i cant wait till the DVD comes out, i think the commentary is going to be so helpful...

I think the deleted scenes will be helpful.

Yeah, I wonder if the actors will give insight into what they think their characters are thinking during certain scenes....that will be helpful to know where this is headed...in a way.

&&& yea in the direcotrs/actors commentary on the specila features. see its good to be positive yay!! KUMBAYA!!(spelling lol)

anyways its unbelieveble bc at the beginning of the movie the jack/liz relationship was like a "what if" but ppl werent like obesesed nor rooting for jack/liz shipper. we didnt think there was gonna be a sequel. plus we all that everybody was happy and bla bla.

but when i saw the kiss!! woah. the flirtung scenes did not surprise me bc he flirst and she does too, but again i was a lil retarded(a little???) and didnt pay much attention. but the kiss, wow that blew me away. thats when i started annilyzing the movie, and it all made sense really. the only thing i forgot to annalize back then was wills character lol. i totally forgot about will-i feel really aweful

but that kiss really sealed the movie with a golden button.

Wow great posts!
these remind me of when i first saw movie 2.... (I was on holiday in bulgaria for the first 2 weeks it opened and hard NOTHING about the movie at all....)

And i was shocked to say the least. I thought it was so BOLD to make the movie in the j/L direction...

I'll b honest here girls...in movie 1 i was disppointed that will/liz got together because from the 'island' scene i thought J/L had great chemistry!....But i knew it would end W/L because it was disney and they didnt show anything discreetly to say she would not end up with him....

And then im sitting there throughout movie 2 with my heart in my throat....not believing what i am seeing on screen! my boyfriend thought i was having a fit or something because i was almost jumping up and down in my seat!

But the one thing that struck me about it (because i had not heard spoilers or seen advert or listened to interviews because i was on holiday) was the fact that it MADE SENSE!
...It was hott, it was needed and it made so much sense to make these two characters attracted to eachother.

They THINK they are polar opposites, but they secretly crave the others freedom...they needed it and this was so clear from the film.
The 'get' eachother in a way no one else in the film does...

the sad thing now is the fact that no one has a plausible answer for what will become of Will if liz chooses jack...and this is a sad thing because it means that Will is not a multifunctional role (in 1 and 2) and therefore he does not have a real plot if elizabeth is not involved...and thats how the character felt to me in the first film also....for me there just is not enough there for him to 'go it alone' without elizabeth.....

My only hope is that the writers can change this by three....

LOL its TOTALLY going to be Jack Liz honestly!!..I'm really excited!! because I just put how far each character has gotten so far over that 12 steps thing and its definatley not Will/Liz from what I see its Jack/Liz..it fits perfectly...what ever they each accept after meeting Tia as the elixir to persue IS the elixir they will return home with ..and you know whats freaky?? with Will it actually appears to be a more of a sinister elixir...as in the Flying Dutchman..and davy jones..very supernatural feel to his one..I have a feeling its being made to look one way with Will(his dad)..but the whole davy vibe is there too as he accepts is elixir..because he's actually refusing to get the key and help Jack with Davy Jones..and then he ACCEPTS it after meeting Tia.

they both long something from eachother

even though they are both oppisites they also compare to eachother, they console eachother spiritually.

Liz shows him that gold, and other material things are not what makes a man.

jack shows liz that it is important to know what u want, to not neglect that feeling and always except ur heart, what u truly desire.

they both help eachother some what in this way. Jack has found his ultimate soulmate and has found someone he could actually love without being a material object.

these 2 are meant for eachother and meant to be with eachother. its a bond-nuff said lol.

Here..I put it in order of which character is moving the fastest in the story(Jack..then Will then Liz=SLOW COACH):

1) The Ordinary World. The hero is taken out of the ordinary world and is put into the Special World, in which the hero is a fish out of water.

Jack: Is in his ordinary world with material possessions but has LIZ on the brain and is acting like a fish out of water when we first meet him (compass pointing to and from her)

Will: Will is in his ordinary world with Elizabeth..then he gets thrown into the special world of Jack again

Elizabeth: is in her ordinary world with Will..then all of a sudden she is placed into the special world with Jack..she's confused and scared with all of her new emotions for him flying about..

2) The Call to Adventure. Thrust into the Special World, the hero is presented with a problem, challenge or adventure.

Jack: Will asks him to help save Elizabeth

Will: Jack asks Will to help him in pursuing the chest of Davy Jones/Key/ship

Elizabeth: Jack comes back for her at the end..and is basically asking Liz to be his obligation(partner) saying he needs her in his life, He wants her in his life to feel strong and brave...he wants her to be a "pirate" with him.

3) Refusal of the Call. The hero is reluctant to undertake the quest as presented. Fear of the unknown is one of mankind's greatest fears.

Jack: Jack refuses to help Liz cuz of his little fear of her (at first)

Will: refuses to help Jack with Davy and the flying Dutchman/chest (shows no fear of it which is freaky)

Elizabeth: Is afraid to go with Jack at the end..she's in denial still, she thinks she should stick with her old way of life..fear of the unknown..is fear of Jack...Jack saying Pirate to her is what probably scares her off..he's saying she is one and he should be with her and this is what makes her finally leave IMO..she knows she wants him but is terrified to go with him.

4) Mentor. The mentor is a Merlin-like character who meets or joins with the hero, offering advice, guidance or magical equipment.

Jack: Tia helps him gain Liz by putting Will on the dutchman..she knows he wants her but is refusing to believe its the most important thing to him "Or do know..but you are loath to claim it as your own" So she also gives him the Jar of dirt which helps him get over material possessions and stop lying to himself about what he really wants(heart)..Jack being Jack..actually needs more of a shove than a gentle push in the right direction...I personally think he accepts her in his life the second she walks into it..but we don't see this because he doesn't look at the compass again until the end..I don't think Jack realizes either until he looks in the compass..when he looks at it he actually looks pretty surprised at what he sees (pointing at Liz)

Will: She gives him the location to his father..and also the dutchman..which one is the elixir?? as he's on there he shows a GREAT interest in both...whats also interesting is the fact he shows an interest in Tia here..as if she's trying to guide him in that way too.

Elizabeth: Meets with Tia..here she begins to feel guilty for refusing a man who needs her in his life..she refused the call to adventure...Tia offers her help to regain him

5) Crossing the First Threshold. This is the point where the hero makes the decision to accept the quest.

Jack: Willingly Takes Liz on board..which is something because he was refusing to be with her before hand..Its funny how he tries to distract himself away from her and she shouts "JACK!" to him and he looks as if he thinks she's about to explode or something..he looks scared..but then they have their little close moment..and Jack says "it shows you what you want most in this world"..and watch his eyes there. They show such a wanting towards her..there's a zoom in too to make it more significant and he looks at her lips. I think thats the point where he willingly takes her on board...as in emotionally..not because he wants help with he compass..(well he does..but he also accepts her too)..

Will: (freaky again) he willingly wants to look for the ship..whilst on there he says he will pursue the means to save his father..but I'm not sure thats the real elixir...I think its the ship *cough* Will/Davy *cough*..then Tia's "a touch of destiny again"..and he also kinda flirts with Tia/shows off in front of her about his "bravery" There's not a WHIFT of her helping him gain Liz back

Elizabeth: accepts to rescue Jack..pursue her elixir...not a whift of her helping her gain Will back..she gains Will back before she even sees the mentor..she gains him back before she even accepts her TRUE quest..Will's not the man she REALLY wants "all I want is to find will" BS LIZ!

Jack actually gets further than the acceptance of the adventure..so does Will..but Liz only JUST ends on it all to confuse us ladies and gents..everyone thinks she ended it on step 3 becuse it was the climax of the movie..but she actually took 2 more quick steps before the movie closed

So yeah Ted and Terry were right about Movie 2 having all the closure you need for the love triangle..because each character HAS met the mentor and accepted persuing their true elixir before the movie closes

It seems as if Tia gives them 2 options when she meets each character..

With Jack she appears to be helping him with the "false elixir"..but knows what his true elixir is (liz) and that's what she is really helping him gain.

With Will she gives him the location to the Dutchman "false elixir" he accepted that as a way to help Liz, now that I think of it..but Tia knows he wants his father..and will want his father more as soon as he meets him on there.

With Liz..because the movie ends here, we see the two things really quickly in that very scene..She gives her a drink as a way to "against the pain and the sorrow of losing Jack"..and to "toast to his memory" "ease the pain of letting him go" as a way to movie on in life, forget about Jack..go back with Will her "false elixir"..but guess what..she doesn't drink it..they make a point about that TWICE..Tia then offers the chance to go and get Jack and we see her accept that one...the true elixir..plus all her tears there show us how much she just wants this man and not the stupid Will who is sitting opposite her..

also its a call back to the Odyssey/PotC similarities. Odysseus(Jack) is absent from the scene and his friends all go into Circe, the Witch's hut..she offers them a drugged drink a which is a way for them to forget about Odysseus..all drink but one..that one goes running back to Odysseus.

I think Will's fear is actually not seeing Liz as his number 1 most important thing anymore..he seems afraid to help anyone else but her..like he's constantly trying to prove himself to her and her dad that he can be a great man for her..he really sounds over the top when he says he's doing the noble thing for her etc....She's all he has in his life..until Tia helps that is... she helps find the thing he's wanted his entire life since before he even met Liz.

I dont think Will is ever going to be enough to satisfy Liz.she always expects too much of him and he just cant ever satisfy her like Jack can..I mean mentally and physically..since when does Will ever french kiss her?..when does she ever french kiss Will?..when does she willingly push a kiss on will?..when does will actually save her life?..NEVER...But I think Will just wants/needs someone to be proud of him..and whats more satisfying to a man than making their father proud?

Keira made a great comment in an interview where she said Elizabeth's purpose in going to find Will was rescuing him--- even when she didnt know where he was--- because she didnt think Will could handle himself around Jack Sparrow or in the mission he had set out to do... hahaha, i think thats super funny. Just that Elizabeth seems so adept at "handling" Jack, finding her way around the caribbean, protecting herself, saving herself, manipulating those around her... and Will is still so innocent and naive almost. but i reckon that'll go in 3. hehehe.

yes it is funny how Elizabeth is better at going head to head with jack then Will is....gosh, they are so right for each other. Jack needs that challenge...and she needs the challenges Jack gives her...Will is just too predictable for her....but even if that does change in 3...I still don't see Will as being the man for her....she and Jack are just so drawn to each other.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
Keira made a great comment in an interview where she said Elizabeth's purpose in going to find Will was rescuing him--- even when she didnt know where he was--- because she didnt think Will could handle himself around Jack Sparrow or in the mission he had set out to do... hahaha, i think thats super funny. Just that Elizabeth seems so adept at "handling" Jack, finding her way around the caribbean, protecting herself, saving herself, manipulating those around her... and Will is still so innocent and naive almost. but i reckon that'll go in 3. hehehe.

HA HA thats really funny..thats totally why Will refuses to help Jack.."I MUST SAVE HER! to make her daddy and her proud, I can do it!"

What makes me laugh is the fact that she cant handle herself around Jack either once she is placed with him..she sets off with a confidence..she's a pirate anyway at heart so thats the ordinary world..but when it comes to being with Jack..all alone with Jack..it becomes the special world..and who ever said a while back that she is really relieved to see Will when she found him on the beach are telling the truth..she's really been feeling like a fish out of water with all of these new emotions rising for Jack..all the people telling her she should be with Jack..all her denial and fear...she's like:

"WILL! my ordinary world! take me away from this scary special world with the ever more attractive looking Jack!!..see Jack I'm happy now!" (although I'm not sure Jack spots that he's more concerned abotu where Davy is at that moment)


Yes she's very drawn to Jack..but she's still at stage number 1 through out much of the movie until Jack comes back for her...

It explains why the compass is pointing at Jack one moment and then it points at the means to "save Will"..its just what was happening to Jack whilst hew as at stage 1 with his compass..pointing to Liz and then the furthest away from her..Liz was just stuck on it forever though lol until Jack basically came back and proved to her that he can be hers..here she has thr choice to be with him or not..and because we have seen all the fear and denal..we see it again in this last scene when she moves to stage 3. "refuses the call"

she can handle herself with the pirate side of the situation I agree(ordinary world)..thats not what scares her..its just the emotional side that she has problems with..this is where she feels like a fish out of water thats the special world she is placed into: gaining feelings for Jack. She's starting to realize she has feelings for him when ever those feelings get called into question she shows fear and denial..and then when she is thrown into the special world (Jack proves he can be with her and that he needs her in his life) She refuses it because she is afraid..at the moment anyway

IMO her elixir is basically excepting to love and be there for the man who needs her in his life the very most..she's well on her way by the time movie 2 ends..but I'm not sure its love yet...thats what we have movie 3 for

hmmmm as much as i want liz and jack, i still think liz and will are going to end up together. thats just me. i love all these theories, and i think they are dead on, but in interviews the writers/directors are constantly going on about how Will is becoming more and more of a pirate-- and will turn full pirate by movie 3--- and not the bad kind of pirate, but the good kind of pirate. they arent going to end Will as a bad guy. its just not going to happen.

its interesting when Will shows up on the beach, and Liz runs over there and kisses him, they really take full advantage of the love square. they pan from Liz and will, to norri, to jack... showing each man's face... like, the reactions of the two other love-interests... (even though norri seems pretty out of the picture, he still likes lizzie... doesnt he?)

Liz and Will wont end up together..not when you look and study where each character emotionally is with the narritive.....by the time movie 2 closes each character has emotionally shifted..and they have accepted the first threshold in their TRUE adventure..With Liz it cant be Will..because she had him back with her before she even accepted the first threshold in her adventure. she had him with her before she even refused the call to her true adventure/elixir.

With Tia..she does 2 things when she meets each ctaracter..firstly she appears to be helping them in persuit of the false elixir..but she really gives them the means to take the first threshold and gain the real one. By the time Liz gets there to meet her two things are different this time compared with when Will and Jack met her..1) Liz has her false elixir with her..she's no longer looking for it 2) Its the end of the movie so they had to rush it along before it closed...Tia gives her the chance to stick with the false elixir(ordinary world)..but she refuses..she willingly choses to accept the first threshold(special world = Jack)

Yes Will becoming a pirate..but its not for Liz its for himself/true elixir..its to save his dad..thats the only reason why he turns like that..we get that at the end of movie 2..he starts to be all selfish etc like a pirate when it comes to saving his dad...he's lying to liz about why he's really going to get Jack back..he could care less about her feelings or Jacks because he's going to remove him the second he finds him...all he cares about are his own feelings and what he wants most in this world (father)..yes he's a pirate all right...just like Jack was in movie 1 when all he cared about was his pearl most in the world and threw peoples feelings around whilst trying to get it..and Liz didnt like that kind of Jack at first..she basically only got to a stage of liking him as a friend..she's falling for the the new Jack, the one who is starting to showing care for her feelings above his own selfish needs/wants ..Liz wont love the new kind of Will if he's turning into that kind of pirate...Will is turning into the kind of man Jack used to be..maybe a bit darker..I think Will is going to go to some ptrtty horrible lengths to gain what he wants most in this world (father)

Also what I notice with the love triangle..they are all holding their swords in the shape of a triangle..and its only Jack's one that is pointing straight at her through Will.

eh, im not going to argue with you cause you know i want liz and jack a ton. i still dont think its gonna happen though. and i dont think Will is gonna end bad. but i dont want to argue with you!

i love the swordfight b/w the 3 of them. its SOOOOO brilliant how, when there are tons of villians chasing them, they manage to get their three main dudes in a swordfight we ALL know is about liz.

katelovespirate T&T have said that he is going to become darker..and Jack was never really dark at all..

Also Tia doesnt just say he has a touch of destiny about him after talking about how much a woman is going to vex(anger) him..if he's going to do something heroic for her in the future...its a really gloomy and horrible kind of feel to his future..

he wont be the ultimate villain..but you cant have 2 really noble hero's in a story...there is no place for 2 major noble heros..Jack is the main one now...he's already "elevated to the rank of a god"(apotheosis = godlike shot of him) and it was all very noble

and I have seen it many times in movies where the guy is about to get to apotheosis...and the apotheosis is not a good one because by the time it comes along..thier selfish desire takes over and they become almost inhuman to how they once were. "NO! the ring is mine!" - frodo is probably the most famous..they do redeem themselves though because Apotheosis is not the final step in their journey..so Will wont end bad you are probably right there..I think will needs this kind of thing..he needs to learn to accept being selfish but he needs to learn to control it..he is very much afraid to even shw any sign of selfishness

I coul be completley wrong but it seems as if Will is heading for that kind of apotheosis...which is only stage 8 out of 12

EDIT - yeah I agree with you!! the chest/heart resembles Liz. IMO..O love that fight they have..and how Jack just sneaks away and stels the key

Oh and im not arguing hun lol..am debating

This should cheer us up LMAO

http://forums.keeptothecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=6182

71% want Jack/Liz

29% want Will/Liz

215 votes go to Jack/Liz

87 to Will Liz.

pretty twice the amount(an a little bit more) of people want Jack Liz instead of Will/ Liz

because Jack Liz has deliberately been made far more interesting than Will/Liz ever was.

kate - you were always so positive with us..now it seems you have lost the faith...or are you like me...you secretly hope it will come true the Jackand Liz thing..but are scared to get your hopes up because of the interviews, articles and the WILL arguments on KTTC...and because it's Disney and because Disney continues to talk like it's Will and Liz and their adventures with Captain Jack Sparrow...it makes Jack sound so...backgroundish...and we all know that's not true..Jack is at the center of this story...everything that happens in these two movies are basically directly and indirectly connected to jack Sparrow....in fact, their lives...norrington, will, liz - none of their lives have been the same since that fateful day when Jack sailed into Port Royal

You've got me totally... that's it. I am secretly hopefull but VERY afraid to get my hopes up.

and i AM actually quite serious when i say i will enjoy it either way.

and yes... the whole... "liz and will and their adventures with captn jack"... it DOES seem to continue that way--- though i tend to see it more as Capt Jack in front, and will and liz sort of the background love story they had to stick in... though they are meant to have increasingly big roles, they still continue to talk about them as tied characters, ya know?

i think we all went a bit nuts right when the film came out... and possibly over-exaggerated things... and i just want to make sure we are looking at this objectively, and not making assumptions that arent spelled out in the film, if that makes sense. cause i love all these theories and i love that everyone is so confident, but i want to make sure we are being confident for a reason. this sometimes prompts me to bring up valid points about liz and will... even though i am DEFINATELY on the jack and liz side of things.

sigh.... i need some chocolate.

movie 1 was that Jack at the front Will/Liz background story..they cant keep doing that really..Jack is the main character...and the main character needs to get the girl..also people get bored if he's always the one who doesnt learn a thing...thats why people loved movie 2..because he changed by the end of it for a woman.

Its as if they wanted badly to go with a Jack/Liz thing to start with cuz the main character usuaally does get the girl.but he's a big risk and they had to make it will/Liz.

Sure not every main hero gets the girl but ones like Jack do..I mean sure Harry potter and frodo dont get the girl..but their character arc is different to Jack..Jack's problem is being brave for someone else and he's afraid to accept love in his life..he's always willing to get rid of a burden if its on his shoulders..but accepting love is something he is terrified of (well not anymore lol)..and its ALWAYS those kinds of characters who get the girl as a reward..

Well my main..MAIN thing here as a film studies student is the hero's 12 steps..this is in no way looking too deeply into messages that aren't there because its pretty much every story of a hero that does this books/movies/plays..its just the way they go..its the most universally successful way to tell a story of a hero and it has been since the dawn of man

and I doubt PotC would mess that pattern of events up because the general public don't like familiar patterns in movies being messed up..we go to a movie..and it has to follow a pattern that we are familiar with because if it doesn't that film is ALWAYS a flop (human nature to fear/dislike the unknown)...I learned this in film studies..especially block busters..they NEVER risk screwing up the pattern of events because they are designed to make money...The movies that dont follow the pattern when its a story about a hero are the art house movies etc..and they always flop..independant movies tend to flop too..

What officially makes it point to Jack/Liz IS what Tia the mentor helps jack to do to gain the elixir..and he does gain it. He knows he has her and by the end of the movie..HE is her elixir she is in pusuit of so it fits together nicely before it closes. So she should be the one he returns home with..the Elixir is Liz...thats the most important thing..that Jar of dirt came into play when he was at step 7 "Approach to the inmost cave"..its him preparing to face it..and if it was to help him to face Davy then HECK the mentor just totally stabbed him in the back when offering help for what is most important to him..that NEVER happens in stories like this...it was to help him take LIZ as an elixir(obligation in his life)

The JoD came in to play for Jack whilst he was at step 7 JUST like tia is helping will again now that he is at step 7..in gaining his father.

THANK U LOVELY ONE!!! Ppl are getting so damn stressed geehs come on!! we are so kicking ass. i try to cheer up but ppl just step on me and try to be so damn negative loool. but thanx to lovely one at least ppl get a lil more calm. IAM TRING SO DAMN HARD!! To control ppl around here!!!!

ITs all there all the patterns are all there. u just have to look for them. u have to see things in a different way. the first bad news we get we are all crumbled and crap nooooo theres always a way.

sry i know i should not give lectures that was stupid of me. but hey im getting stressed too by all u ppl lol.

Hi I' m new here and I would like to say that some of you made some
very interesting comments. Like this one: It's Jack' s sword that' s pointing straight at her ... You must notice "the little things" (Don' t misunderstand me!) in a movie.

^^ hello yea u can just read our explanations and stuff just one thing dont bother going on keep to the code..ppl are awefully rude and a bunch of snobs..uhg

Chiki I don't mean to be negative...but I'm a bit like Kate...I don't want to get my hopes up just to have them squashed...plus this is the therapy thread where we can talk about what's bothering us, right????

LovelyOne...the main character doesn't always get the girl...just stating a fact..not meant to be argumentative...Luke Skywalker was the MAIN character in the Star Wars trilogy and he didn't get the girl...the love story between Lia and Han was in the background....but on the other hand, Jack is a whole different character from Luke...Luke was honorable, brave, strong...alot like Will....I find Will to be very honorable and brave...but I still think he is Bloody Stupid...because he refuses to trust Jack and he always screwed up Jack's plans...but, he is alot braver and stronger in DMC ....

But beleive me girls...if it were up to me and I could play magic tricks with Ted and Terry...I would have all kinds of ways for them to put Jack and Liz together and still have a satisfactory ending for Will....

But when you watch interviews, trailers, etc.....they all refer to it as Jack Sparrow and his adventure with Will Turner and Elizabeth Swann...they keep pairing those two together like they are one in the same...and it just makes me so mad....cuz...I don't think Will and Liz suit each other at all..and then watching the POTC 1 commentary earlier today...i didn't like one bit how Gore and Johnny kept refering to what a beautiful couple Keira and Orlando make...and how Gore was so satisfied with their interactions with each other...etc....ughhhh...and Johnny constantly refering to them as Great Kids....

trailers intend to do that u know. they try to put some things that tease u. thats why its called teaser trailer like for the 2nd movie. showed alot of liz/will scenes. but once u get into the movie its very different.

orlando and keira may look like a good couple but i doubt they are talking as in characters. that necessarily means the movie is gonna end up with will/liz.

think about it..ppl want jack liz EVERYONE wants jack/liz. it definitley made it big at the box office. u think disney would be dumb and ted/terry would be retarded enough to change everything?!?!?!?!? and risk going the ratings down?!?!? nu uh..dont think so...too much money involve.

iam positive they are gonna give us what we want. they certain wouldnt and shouldnt waste paper and ink on scripts with jack/liz then suddenly end it with will/liz. i very much doubt so

I have to agree with lovethemtigers and kate cause I don't wanna get my hopes high and have them squashed I rather keep them down and then have them boosted up with something I didn't expect..and I'm not argoiung either I thing the point Lovelyone made was true I really believe it's liz/jack all the way but what worries me is that the main character really doesn't always get the girl example:starwars, harry potter,pocohantus...but I point that comforts me alot is that is that inthose stories the main character never wanted the girl THAT badly wheres if jack REALLY wants liz(we know he does) he's going to be with her. cause only once in the history of these films has jack not gotten what he wants(not being able to getaway from the beastie) and even then he's happy cause he got something instead of it(lizzie!!!). he got what ever he wanted:the pearl,his crew,a kiss,the heart(although he lost it again), getting saved from being hanged, lizzie's trust, rum!!! he sets out to get what he wants he doesn't stop until he gets it..in the end he does so if we want to stick to the character...he'll get liz

I'M Stressed but only because i want to see PIRATES 3 already...LOL!!

I have read some of your posts (not everything) but I still
don' t understand one thing: if (scene with cannibals) Jack stops in his
trails by hearing Liz is in trouble... He maybe thinks of her, but,
after he is back on the Pearl, he doesn' t sail towards her, HE DOESN' T RESCUE HER.

I know on an other topic, they said that CJS can' t make up his mind (he wants Liz and at the same time, he doesn' t want her) but...

On the other hand, if in movie 1, she was still the "helpless" girl, that has
changed in movie 2!

CAN SOMEONE HELP ME OUT OF THIS?

I still have to do a lot of reading of all these topics...

Originally posted by mythe
I have read some of your posts (not everything) but I still
don' t understand one thing: if (scene with cannibals) Jack stops in his
trails by hearing Liz is in trouble... He maybe thinks of her, but,
after he is back on the Pearl, he doesn' t sail towards her, HE DOESN' T RESCUE HER.

I know on an other topic, they said that CJS can' t make up his mind (he wants Liz and at the same time, he doesn' t want her) but...

On the other hand, if in movie 1, she was still the "helpless" girl, that has
changed in movie 2!

CAN SOMEONE HELP ME OUT OF THIS?

U Know the whole Cannibal scene has me confused too? I'm interested? HeLp Please anyone!
Why did he only react to Liz name but doesnt go after her?
What does he say about Will to the Cannibals?
And Why does he say SAVE ME to Will?

OMG PLEASE LOVELYONE OR SOME ONE POST MORE GOOD KICK ASS THEORIES BC PPL ARE STILL DAMN WORRIED!!! i swear i get enough stress at the uni i dont need no more here crybaby

I still wonder about some scenes but I think I will have to watch POTC2 again.

Did anyone already make a topic of the 99 souls/slaves???

http://www.mycustomcountdown.com/index.php/countdownclocks/action/view/clock_id/239/



*sigh*

Originally posted by mythe
I still wonder about some scenes but I think I will have to watch POTC2 again.

Did anyone already make a topic of the 99 souls/slaves???

yup^^in case if u dont know..some of us figured that since jack rescued,or set free, 99 slaves, that hes soul is worth 99

I had a dream last night about JD.
it was the best dream ever.
Im going to bed Goodnight


*continues with the dream*

...um enjoy... lol

Ya GooD NiGhT!! LOL!!

ppl can be freekishly obsessive sometimes lol.

Oh GoD TeLL Me AboUt It!!! LOl!!

dont get me wrong i love johnny..hes just great hes ONE of the best ever that happened to hollywood. but ppl can be too obsessive and offend other actors/actresses

like keira..i hate when ppl talk so much shit about her bc she kissed johnny/jack. its called acting hello-those of of the ppl who dont know what it means.

Originally posted by mythe
I have read some of your posts (not everything) but I still
don' t understand one thing: if (scene with cannibals) Jack stops in his
trails by hearing Liz is in trouble... He maybe thinks of her, but,
after he is back on the Pearl, he doesn' t sail towards her, HE DOESN' T RESCUE HER.

I know on an other topic, they said that CJS can' t make up his mind (he wants Liz and at the same time, he doesn' t want her) but...

On the other hand, if in movie 1, she was still the "helpless" girl, that has
changed in movie 2!

CAN SOMEONE HELP ME OUT OF THIS?

Well...because we have learned from Ted himself..that Jack is vexed...he wants Elizabeth but he doesn't want to want her....they didn't put this in the movie..but they were planning to purposely show the compass pointing toward Liz and jack setting sail in the opposite direction but instead decided to let his compass spin aimlessly because he is confused about what he wants...or he knows what he wants but doesn't want to claim...as in what Tia tells him at her Hut

At this point Jack doesn't realize that Liz is essential to his life...he wants her...but at the same time he doesn't...savvy....confusing...but it's all part of that denial..forbidden love...etc....

Ok, so Jack has been in denial and also has Liz -> Liz still is now.

As I said before, the comments of the producers, ... confuse me,
but do you think what they are saying is true?

The hints they give, all right but when they say that the film is heading to a W/E ending???!!!
I mean: Is this planet earth??

I think I believe the hints ... but certainly not when they are giving their
ending away like that. And same as to the script.

It' s also strange that many trailers have been removed and that when they talk about Will and Elisabeth, they really make it not a secret, it' s
way to obvious -> can' t be!

LONG LIVE JACK AND LIZZIE!!!

Hi Chiki Mina, I saw your reply too late ... I' m going to look that topic up(99 slaves/souls). I though that he wanted to rescue the slaves but I
didn' t know he did it. Then you may indeed say that his soul' s worth
99 souls.

Originally posted by mythe
I think I believe the hints ... but certainly not when they are giving their
ending away like that. And same as to the script.

It' s also strange that many trailers have been removed and that when they talk about Will and Elisabeth, they really make it not a secret, it' s
way to obvious -> can' t be!

LONG LIVE JACK AND LIZZIE!!!

yes that what we are hoping too...they are way too obvious with their Will/Liz ending...the clues and underlying theories and symbolisms in DMC and even if you tie them into POTC 1 is so heavy in favor of a Jack-Liz pairing..if it doesn't turn out that way you almost have to wonder if Ted and Terry have any rhyme and reason to what they write..no way can they be professional writers as such they are and totally ignore all of their own mysteries inbedded in their writings...I mean...why say "fate intervened" why have Norrington say "it's a curious thing..." why show that Liz has been infatuated with Pirates her entire Life...why focus so much on that darn Compass ....then have Jack himself tell Liz it points to the thing you want most in the world..and then show that when she holds it, it points to Jack..and it is so obvious cuz each time the camera focuses on Jack...his mannerisms are so outthere..like when he's up on the Pearl with the eyeglass thingy..and then on the beach when he's up on that sanddune...then we know the compass isn't working for Jack..then it works when he is on the longboat..the way Liz clings to jack's leg and he is outlined in a halo of sunlight...Gibbs pointing out that Jack is vexed..then that darn word resurfacing in Tia's cabin letting us know that a woman is what vexes men most...etc, etc, etc...there are so many clues...Lovelyone's Hat Theory and Heart Theory and all of her other theories about the 12 steps to a hero, the 7 archeotypes...EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS MOVIE AND THE SCRIPT POINTS TO JACK AND LIZ..IF THIS WERE A FILM STUDIES OR LIT/COMP CLASS WE WOULD ALL DRAW THE SAME CONCLUSION.

If it turns out w/e then you really gotta wonder why Disney spent so much time playing this out in DMC and then abandon it in AWE...especially since it's a prettygood hunch that DMC has topped $1billion dollars because of the Jack/Liz thing that develops...cuz really doubt people kept going to see the Davy Jones and Will scenes..or the Cannibal Island Scenes...or Lord Beckett..because the real excitement in the movie starts with...."Captian Sparrow"...."Come to Join my Crew Lad, Welcome Aboard"...."I've come to Find The Man I LOVE"...."I'm deeply flattered son, but my first and only love is the sea"..."Meaning William Turner, Captain Sparrow"....."Elizabeth.....Hide the Rum".....for me, this is where the movie really started getting interesting..and the remainder of the movie I was about to scream my guts out and was on the edge of my seat...okay when is that KISS coming...from "hide the rum"...to "As I said Persuade Me"...to "It's a curious thing"...to "one word love, curiosity"....to "We're not free yet love".....just great stuff.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
yes that what we are hoping too...they are way too obvious with their Will/Liz ending...the clues and underlying theories and symbolisms in DMC and even if you tie them into POTC 1 is so heavy in favor of a Jack-Liz pairing..if it doesn't turn out that way you almost have to wonder if Ted and Terry have any rhyme and reason to what they write..no way can they be professional writers as such they are and totally ignore all of their own mysteries inbedded in their writings...I mean...why say "fate intervened" why have Norrington say "it's a curious thing..." why show that Liz has been infatuated with Pirates her entire Life...why focus so much on that darn Compass ....then have Jack himself tell Liz it points to the thing you want most in the world..and then show that when she holds it, it points to Jack..and it is so obvious cuz each time the camera focuses on Jack...his mannerisms are so outthere..like when he's up on the Pearl with the eyeglass thingy..and then on the beach when he's up on that sanddune...then we know the compass isn't working for Jack..then it works when he is on the longboat..the way Liz clings to jack's leg and he is outlined in a halo of sunlight...Gibbs pointing out that Jack is vexed..then that darn word resurfacing in Tia's cabin letting us know that a woman is what vexes men most...etc, etc, etc...there are so many clues...Lovelyone's Hat Theory and Heart Theory and all of her other theories about the 12 steps to a hero, the 7 archeotypes...EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS MOVIE AND THE SCRIPT POINTS TO JACK AND LIZ..IF THIS WERE A FILM STUDIES OR LIT/COMP CLASS WE WOULD ALL DRAW THE SAME CONCLUSION.

If it turns out w/e then you really gotta wonder why Disney spent so much time playing this out in DMC and then abandon it in AWE...especially since it's a prettygood hunch that DMC has topped $1billion dollars because of the Jack/Liz thing that develops...cuz really doubt people kept going to see the Davy Jones and Will scenes..or the Cannibal Island Scenes...or Lord Beckett..because the real excitement in the movie starts with...."Captian Sparrow"...."Come to Join my Crew Lad, Welcome Aboard"...."I've come to Find The Man I LOVE"...."I'm deeply flattered son, but my first and only love is the sea"..."Meaning William Turner, Captain Sparrow"....."Elizabeth.....Hide the Rum".....for me, this is where the movie really started getting interesting..and the remainder of the movie I was about to scream my guts out and was on the edge of my seat...okay when is that KISS coming...from "hide the rum"...to "As I said Persuade Me"...to "It's a curious thing"...to "one word love, curiosity"....to "We're not free yet love".....just great stuff.


yeah i have to agree with you here. i do not understand AT ALL why they did this. Because the more i hear/think about things, and the more people i discuss this with (and everyone is tired of discussing it with me )... the more i think it WILL be a liz/will ending, but that like, invalidates the WHOLE 2nd film. WHY did they open this can of worms?!?! it wasnt like some random shocking kiss at the end, it was a steady, PLANNED build-up to an explosion between the two. I cant think of ANY reason why they would WILLINGLY alienate half their audience for no reason. are we giving them way too much credit, or way too little??? could they have some huge plan/plot device/twist that will make all those hints in the 2nd movie make sense without ending it Jack/liz? its just so damn confusing... i think they made a big mistake with movie 2 if they honestly mean to end it will/liz... cause they have WAY too much to explain away now.

yea i agree with what both of u are saying kate/lovethemtigers

if wanted to make a will/liz ending they sure made a huge mistake for potc2 and alot of explaining to do. So they would not bother having a will/liz ship at the end, i mean hello its too risky. jack was not the hero in movie 2 he was just doing his thing and he was a hero for himself bc he got his engeance by killing barbossa and got his pearl back.

ratings will certainly go down if its suddenly will/liz. jak has become the hero in potc 2, and they/we dont certainly wanna see the hero ending the movie by himself and with 2 hores with stds.

I agree there is too much to explain! Something tells me that AWE is gonna be like a 3 hr long movie!

omg yea..plus the commercials that in my theater gives..damn they are 40 mins long, by the time the movie starts my ass is asleep.

oh gee.... i sort of hope it is longish, because i want them to put in all the good stuff they can.

like the 1st one, i wish they would have kept in the Peas in a Pod scene, even though that would have made the movie like a whole 45 seconds longer. LOL.

there is so much for them to pack in!!!! they have to introduce Jack's father and the pirate council, they all have to go to Singapore, rescue Jack, there has to be plenty of time for Liz and Jack to continue their fast growing relationship, Will has to team up with the bad guys and get EMO, lots of people have to die, and there has to be time for action and humor! lol.

and there be romance too!!

plus the answer on how barbossa got revived and why!?

to many questions, so many answers, so much time left for potc3

I dont mind a long movie!! As Long as i'm looking at Jack i'm grrreat!! LOL!!

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
and there be romance too!!

plus the answer on how barbossa got revived and why!?

to many questions, so many answers, so much time left for potc3



http://www.mycustomcountdown.com/index.php/countdownclocks/action/view/clock_id/239/


Not toooo long lol

That CoUnTdown is still TORTURE!! LOL!!

yea loool but we can do it!! hopefully without killing ourselves

I just noticed how Jack tried really hard not to focus on Liz's lips in the curiosity scene too!

not the part where she nearly kisses him..but the part where she first stands next to him..he turns to look at her and looks at her lips twice haha