Cyclops Blast(full power) vs Classic Juggernaut

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braz
well?

does Juggy get stopped to a hault or what?

Metalmanx
Originally posted by braz
well?

does Juggy get stopped to a hault or what?

No. Not even in the slightest.

In fact, I don't think it even slows him down a bit. Classic Juggy walks right through it.

rotiart
it only stops juggernaught in the sense that cyclops has tore a giant hole in the floor where jugs was standing.. and now hes falling into a deep deep chasm... called... the ny subway system...

johnv89
I have an issue where cyclops hits him at full blast at point blank range, it just pissed him off. Although that issue was back in 1993, I dont know how powerfull cyclops is now.

johnv89
Here is the pic.

Darth Vegas
Juggs walks through it like he was walking through a slight breeze.

Nothing stops the Juggernaut.

xmarksthespot
Hmm if Juggernaut isn't in motion though can he be moved?

quickshot
the definition of juggernaut is unstoppale indestructible immovable cyclops is just a guy with leds for eyes

outarddwarf
not immovable.! standing still he has been put down and knocked back

galan7777777
Originally posted by braz
well?

does Juggy get stopped to a hault or what? juggs wouldnt even flinch let alone be stopped

Brutacus
I guess we have to see what real power cyclops really got in his eye's, since they say in civil war x-men 2, he never showed his true power yet.

Untill now he only showed a fraction of what he is capable.

Still untill they show it, I say juggernaut walks through it.

peejayd
Originally posted by johnv89
I have an issue where cyclops hits him at full blast at point blank range, it just pissed him off. Although that issue was back in 1993, I dont know how powerfull cyclops is now.

* and about the comic, it had been said the Cyke was using the maximum intensity of his optic blast... my interpretation of this was, the ruby-quartz visor that was holding back the blasts were fully opened and directed to Juggernaut... i think that the full power of the blast was the one that broke or dented Onslaught's armor...

* Marvel also stated that once Juggernaut starts moving, no one can stop him, but IMO, if he is not moving, he may be knocked back by the full power of optic blast...

* i hope we'll be updated by Marvel as of how powerful the optic blasts of the current Cyclops...

* and another thing, if the thread is a Cyke vs. Juggernaut match, Cyke can pull out a win, he outsmarted both Juggernaut and Black Tom once... wink

johnv89
Originally posted by peejayd
* and about the comic, it had been said the Cyke was using the maximum intensity of his optic blast... my interpretation of this was, the ruby-quartz visor that was holding back the blasts were fully opened and directed to Juggernaut... i think that the full power of the blast was the one that broke or dented Onslaught's armor...


So I guess his blast is even more powerfull now. Its hard to say if it would affect him. Considering the blast I showed didnt even phase him, I still say he cant hurt him, But who knows.

braz
Originally posted by peejayd
* and about the comic, it had been said the Cyke was using the maximum intensity of his optic blast... my interpretation of this was, the ruby-quartz visor that was holding back the blasts were fully opened and directed to Juggernaut... i think that the full power of the blast was the one that broke or dented Onslaught's armor...

* Marvel also stated that once Juggernaut starts moving, no one can stop him, but IMO, if he is not moving, he may be knocked back by the full power of optic blast...

* i hope we'll be updated by Marvel as of how powerful the optic blasts of the current Cyclops...

* and another thing, if the thread is a Cyke vs. Juggernaut match, Cyke can pull out a win, he outsmarted both Juggernaut and Black Tom once... wink

see i thought it would do something to him when hes standing still, but i was actually referring to him when hes already in motion, no expression slammin through walls n shyt, yyea iont think hes gettin stopped there. it even states like yall said, once in motion, he cannot be stopped. but still, Cyke's optic blast is nothing to mess with, he even stated that he could cripple Colossus with it when colossus turned evil and he was fighting all the X MEN, and colossus has been stated to have invulnerability. and like u said, it also dented the Onslaughts armor who >Juggy.

ExtraMision5555
Classic juggernaut himself shrugs it off, easily, i woudl think, but like soemoene said, everything ELSE would be crumbly & descintegrated

johnv89
At the most, it sends him flying a few miles. In the end he can not be hurt.

Silas Burr
Originally posted by johnv89
Here is the pic.


What book is that from?

johnv89
X-men Adventures, 09 july 1993.

Silas Burr
Ah, shoulda known. Thanks.

breeze85
Like said he wouldn't even flinch.

What comes to Juggernaut being completely unstoppable once in motion. Well, He is not. (WAR Hulk anyone?). Doesn't matter who or what did it he still has been stopped, yet PHYSICALLY. He isn't even completely invulnerable (altough nigh) as most seem to think here. He has his limits altough they are supreme.

trolly_crouchjr
Stop using War Hulk...War Hulk negated Cyttorak's effects with celestail tech

Dinalfos
Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
Stop using War Hulk...War Hulk negated Cyttorak's effects with celestail tech

Heh, no it didn't.

trolly_crouchjr
Tell me how it happened then? By Pure physical force?

Dinalfos
Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
Tell me how it happened then? By Pure physical force?

Yes. War Hulk was amped by the Celestial Tech(whether is just harnessed his own strength or not remains debatable), thus able to stop him physically. Juggernaut's own strength is mystical in nature, but purely physical in output. The same goes for War. There's nothing to indicate that it somehow negated the Cyttorak enchantment. That's something the Juggernaut fanboys made up.

trolly_crouchjr
I dont know...There are 3 reaseons
Pure Physical force stopeed him
Hulk was drawing strength from the 2 universe( duno this one)
Negating effect

Dinalfos
Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
I dont know...There are 3 reaseons
Pure Physical force stopeed him
Hulk was drawing strength from the 2 universe( duno this one)
Negating effect

The first two are true. The last one isn't. If it was, it would've been stated on panel or by the writer. Ofcourse, since it wasn't specified, it's up to the reader to think of it what he wants to. But it strikes me as a little desperate.

big juggy man
The Juggernaut has withstood even Thor's godforce(which caused Galactus to flee for his life on one occasion,and shattered the prime Celestial's protective dome on another) with absolutely no physical damage whatsoever. --Thor #412

He withstood a direct blast from Stellaris's Celestial armor with zero effect to his person. The sheer energy radius of the blast hitting him was so powerful it created a large chasm in the Earth. --Thunderstrike #2

Took a direct blast from the new-look Cyclops that was described by him as being able to "rip a small planet in half" with a smile as The Juggernaut's only reaction. --Cyclops #1

Facing the Stranger who'd grown to about 50 feet tall,The Juggernaut lept up and toppled him with one punch --X-Men Forever #6

Engaging fellow exemplar Stonecuter in a toe-to-toe slugfest,the punches they traded to one another caused earthquakes and was said to be the greatest fury ever unleashed on Earth. --Juggernaut:Eighth Day

Despite suffering a significant power loss,The Juggernaut was still able to match Prime(who proved more than strong enough to match Thor punch for punch) in a direct test of strength before slamming Prime back through a wall. --Exiles #4

The Juggernaut has on two occasions allowed Cannonball to blast directly into him. And both times Cannonball was knocked out of blast mode and barely conscious while The Juggernaut remained totally unmoved and unphased.


Read and learn kiddies there is nothing Cyclops can do that could knock Juggernaut back or beat him period.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Dinalfos
The first two are true. The last one isn't. If it was, it would've been stated on panel or by the writer. Ofcourse, since it wasn't specified, it's up to the reader to think of it what he wants to. But it strikes me as a little desperate.

Technically...without proof on your side, it's still debatable. We don't know enough about the celestial tech to say if it was a negating effect or his own physical force. If you want to be honest about it, we're both speculating.

But, if you know Juggernaut well, you'd realize that the negating effect makes the most sense here. Otherwise, it would contradict his previous feats.

wolvertooth
is it really a question? it doesnt do anything to the juggernaut .... or he furts i dont know but it wont hurt him of even stop him from walking

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yes. War Hulk was amped by the Celestial Tech(whether is just harnessed his own strength or not remains debatable), thus able to stop him physically. Juggernaut's own strength is mystical in nature, but purely physical in output. The same goes for War. There's nothing to indicate that it somehow negated the Cyttorak enchantment. That's something the Juggernaut fanboys made up. Read and Cry
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3300/juggyvote1hk3.jpg

Silas Burr
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yes. War Hulk was amped by the Celestial Tech(whether is just harnessed his own strength or not remains debatable), thus able to stop him physically. Juggernaut's own strength is mystical in nature, but purely physical in output. The same goes for War. There's nothing to indicate that it somehow negated the Cyttorak enchantment. That's something the Juggernaut fanboys made up.


Actually, this same energy was shown to negate Dr.Strange's spells a few issues earlier. As explained by Strange, it was able to do this because it was not of this universe so the magicks didn't work against it. When Strange himself goes to the HR universe where War's energy came from, he notes how strange the reality is there and, unlike in the normal universe, the Hulk from that universe is able to shatter the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak like glass. So yes, it's not spelled out in that single issue itself that War's energy negated the Juggernaut's magic. But it is indicated in other parts of the storyline.

Brutacus
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Read and Cry
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3300/juggyvote1hk3.jpg

Sure go back 12 years in the past, many things happend in 12 YEARS.

Dinalfos
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Technically...without proof on your side, it's still debatable. We don't know enough about the celestial tech to say if it was a negating effect or his own physical force. If you want to be honest about it, we're both speculating.

But, if you know Juggernaut well, you'd realize that the negating effect makes the most sense here. Otherwise, it would contradict his previous feats.

Ofcourse it contraditcs his previous feats. It was to shock the reader that the Juggernaut was not completely unstoppable. And Juggernaut has an unhealthy relationship with Magic, I know. But the Thing is, Juggy was pretty shocked himself. It magic was negating his enchantment and Juggy himself knew about his, then why the shock? War's strength was enhanced, so the point the writer was making is that it was enough to stop him in his tracks. It's debatable, but only because you can't prove a negative.

Be honest to yourself for a moment. I agreed that you can take from it what you want, if you're really desperate. But that kind of 'reasoning' can be applied anywhere.

juggernaut66666
Originally posted by Silas Burr
Actually, this same energy was shown to negate Dr.Strange's spells a few issues earlier. As explained by Strange, it was able to do this because it was not of this universe so the magicks didn't work against it. When Strange himself goes to the HR universe where War's energy came from, he notes how strange the reality is there and, unlike in the normal universe, the Hulk from that universe is able to shatter the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak like glass. So yes, it's not spelled out in that single issue itself that War's energy negated the Juggernaut's magic. But it is indicated in other parts of the storyline.

Dinalfos
Originally posted by Silas Burr
Actually, this same energy was shown to negate Dr.Strange's spells a few issues earlier. As explained by Strange, it was able to do this because it was not of this universe so the magicks didn't work against it. When Strange himself goes to the HR universe where War's energy came from, he notes how strange the reality is there and, unlike in the normal universe, the Hulk from that universe is able to shatter the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak like glass. So yes, it's not spelled out in that single issue itself that War's energy negated the Juggernaut's magic. But it is indicated in other parts of the storyline.

It's not. The Hulk that shattered the bands was simply stronger than normal because of the HR-universe and the Pocket Universe. He was a walking anomaly.

But aside from that, when Juggernaut and Hulk were fighting, they weren't in the HR-universe. War drew his strength from there, but it was clearly used to enhance his physical abilities. There was absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

juggernaut66666
it doesn't matter since that fight doesn't even count

Dinalfos
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
it doesn't matter since that fight doesn't even count

Count? You mean in the Hulk vs. Juggernaut score? I agree.

juggernaut66666
even the writers admitted that hulk was boosted that time

Dinalfos
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
even the writers admitted that hulk was boosted that time

No shit, sherlock. It was meant that way. But at least he was boosted by the energy that his own body was drawing.

juggernaut66666
yeah sure you know everything better you are arguing with the writers and Marvel the 2nd time this is pathetic
laughing laughing laughing
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3106/1tq7.th.jpg

Silas Burr
Originally posted by Dinalfos
It's not. The Hulk that shattered the bands was simply stronger than normal because of the HR-universe and the Pocket Universe. He was a walking anomaly.

It wasn't the Hulk's strength Strange commented on, it was that reality's physics.




It wasn't his physical attributes that was disturbing Strange's spells. It was the energy he was channelling all around his body.

Dinalfos
Originally posted by juggernaut66666
yeah sure you know everything better you are arguing with the writers and Marvel the 2nd time this is pathetic
laughing laughing laughing
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/3106/1tq7.th.jpg

Are you an idiot? I just SAID his strength was boosted. The Celestial Tech took care of that by harnessing the energies of the Heroes Reborn- and pocket universes. Sheesh.

Dinalfos
Originally posted by Silas Burr
It wasn't the Hulk's strength Strange commented on, it was that reality's physics.




It wasn't his physical attributes that was disturbing Strange's spells. It was the energy he was channelling all around his body.

Just to make things clear, you ARE talking about issue 450, right? Because Strange only commented that "Hulk" was the source of this business.

I've checked the issue and the Hulk you're talking abou wasn't the regular Hulk anyway, but the one from HR. He was "leaking energy like reactor without control rods". The energy was just that, energy. Not magic.

breeze85
It doesn't matter whether Juggernaut can or can't beat Hulk.

It doesn't matter if it was 'amped' Hulk who stopped Juggernaut.

It doesn't matter that the fight doesn't count as a win for Hulk.

It doesn't matter if Juggernaut WAS stronger than Hulk. (I don't think so altough it's very debatable)

The fact remains: Juggernaut has been stopped. Yet it was even done by physical means.

What comes to the thread I repeat what I said earlier. Juggernaut remains completely unharmed no matter what Cyclops throws at him.

quickshot
Who would win hulk with boosted strength or a man with the power of a God the only way was his powers being took out thats the only known way to defeat him

Silas Burr
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Just to make things clear, you ARE talking about issue 450, right? Because Strange only commented that "Hulk" was the source of this business.



He comments on more than that. He comments about the strange physics of that universe. It's the bizarre physics that make him think to try to see what the bands would do in the first place.



That was the point actually. The regular Hulk has failed to break the bands cast in this universe. The Hulk born of the HR energies shattered them.



We don't know what kind of enbergy it was. It was likely a combination of many types. But the significance is that it was a strange energy from another universe. When Strange tried to use the Eye of Agomotto this energy zapped him through the Eye itself. When he tried to approach the Hulk it blocked his spells and stopped him. This energy did not merely increase Hulk's strength. It actively affected things around him, including magic.

Whatever this energy was, Apocalypse felt it would allow him to defeat the Celestials themselves. Just giving Hulk a boost in strength would do nothing to help against a Celestial.

Dinalfos

Silas Burr

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Ofcourse it contraditcs his previous feats. It was to shock the reader that the Juggernaut was not completely unstoppable. And Juggernaut has an unhealthy relationship with Magic, I know. But the Thing is, Juggy was pretty shocked himself. It magic was negating his enchantment and Juggy himself knew about his, then why the shock? War's strength was enhanced, so the point the writer was making is that it was enough to stop him in his tracks. It's debatable, but only because you can't prove a negative.

Be honest to yourself for a moment. I agreed that you can take from it what you want, if you're really desperate. But that kind of 'reasoning' can be applied anywhere.

Why or how would Juggernaut know ahead of time so as to not be shocked? confused I mean, I'm sure he probably now realizes what happened back then. Being unstoppable and then being stopped would shock just about anyone. Especially when you don't realize there's opposing magics at work.

Neither point was decisively proven. You technically can't prove the positive either. That's all I'm saying.

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