Salvation is a gift.

It is not to be earned; it is not to be bought. It has been freely given--but at a high cost.

In that high cost I imagine you are referring to Jesus and the Crucification.

It might be I am too cynical, but on reflection that tale seems to go a long way towards affecting people on a guilt level. "God is offering you something free of charge, a gift. He wanted you to have this gift so bad he sent his only son Jesus to BE HORRIBLY TORTURED AND DIE IN AN UNPLEASANT FASHION. That is how noble and freely given this gift is. Doesn't that noble sacrifice just make you want to recieve the gift?"

Of course, one would feel bad not to.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
In that high cost I imagine you are referring to Jesus and the Crucification.

It might be I am too cynical, but on reflection that tale seems to go a long way towards affecting people on a guilt level. "God is offering you something free of charge, a gift. He wanted you to have this gift so bad he sent his only son Jesus to BE HORRIBLY TORTURED AND DIE IN AN UNPLEASANT FASHION. That is how noble and freely given this gift is. Doesn't that noble sacrifice just make you want to recieve the gift?"

Of course, one would feel bad not to.

Originally posted by FeceMan
In a way, I think it should cause some guilt.

But what if you never ask for the sacrifice on your behalf?

Originally posted by FeceMan
In a way, I think it should cause some guilt.

Originally posted by Robtard
But what if you never ask for the sacrifice on your behalf?

Indeed, there seems something... unfair about the nature of it. Of people saying "You do know that Jesus suffered terribly... for you"

Me: "But I have problems with that, and I didn't ask for any such thing, in fact I think people should define themselves with their actions and the judgement should be based on intent and what they have done and felt, not things we had no choice over like the Fall or Jesus"

Them: "Ah, But Jesus loved you so much he suffered for you, so you wouldn't have etc. etc. How does that make you feel?"

Me: "Well, if I believed I imagine I would feel guilt and a sense of appreciation."

Originally posted by Robtard
But what if you never ask for the sacrifice on your behalf?

Some effort or some actions are required by the believer in order to achieve deliverance. It is not an entirely free gift, otherwise there would be no need for a prophet to communicate the message of salvation to humanity.

The whole free thing is a farce anyway...people can't take responsibility for thier own actions so they push off that responsibility onto mythical figures.

The only way you can market ANYTHING is to give something away.

Originally posted by FeceMan
In a way, I think it should cause some guilt.

Why ? It's not my fault Jesus died...I didn't even exist back then. If it were up to me, he'd be fine, no one would die or suffer, everyone would be forgiven, and we'd all just be happy...

If he really felt the need to die an agonizing death, that's his problem, not mine...I never asked for it. So enough of this "guilt" bullshit...

Originally posted by FeceMan
It is not to be earned; it is not to be bought. It has been freely given--but at a high cost.

A gift is never followed by a threat.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A gift is never followed by a threat.

Sure is it, if you're a mobster... Watch the Godfather, Goodfellas etc.

Originally posted by Robtard
Sure is it, if you're a mobster... Watch the Godfather, Goodfellas etc.

So, heaven is a syndicate, and god is a mobster? 😱

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, heaven is a syndicate, and god is a mobster? 😱

God is going to make you an offer you can't refuse...

Originally posted by FeceMan
It is not to be earned; it is not to be bought. It has been freely given--but at a high cost.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A gift is never followed by a threat.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Why ? It's not [b]my fault Jesus died...I didn't even exist back then. If it were up to me, he'd be fine, no one would die or suffer, everyone would be forgiven, and we'd all just be happy...

If he really felt the need to die an agonizing death, that's his problem, not mine...I never asked for it. So enough of this "guilt" bullshit... [/B]

Originally posted by Robtard
God is going to make you an offer you can't refuse...

😆

Originally posted by FeceMan
You're right. And it's not. If you look at it the wrong way, you're going to see a threat. But, if you read it the right way, you're not.

I think you just made that up.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
😆

I think you just made that up.

"If you don't accept Christ as your savior, you're going to hell."

Reading it the right way:

"We were all destined for hell. However, Christ died for us to save us from that fate--he has given us eternal life."

Originally posted by FeceMan
Reading it the wrong way:

"If you don't accept Christ as your savior, you're going to hell."

Reading it the right way:

"We were all destined for hell. However, Christ died for us to save us from that fate--he has given us eternal life."

We are not destined for hell. That is just part of the threat.

All of religion is a threat.

Originally posted by Alliance
All of religion is a threat.

Buddhism is not a threat. Believe that or I will beat you up. 😆