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Both can fight in the dark, who wins?

Good one. Is bloodlust on? I'd give this one to Shiva. She is the better fighter of the two. But, Matt might still have advantage in the dark but not one big enough to defeat Shiva.

Shiva 7.5/10.

DD takes it 6-7/10.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
DD takes it 6-7/10.

At least.

really cool fight. i say DD though, out of radar senses and most likely strength advantage cuz hes a guy. DD 6/10

Shiva also has those senses, she is known in the DCU as the most deadly woman alive. She gained the title by defeating the past title holder in pitch blackness.

Not senses like DD.

Shiva wipes the floor with matt, daredevil is good but lady shiva is badass.

Daredevil wins. He lacks the raw skills Shiva has but his sense more than compensate

No they don't , DD has no means to mask his presence from Shiva.

Shiva Earths premier stealth fighter can and will, mask her presence Chi, heart beat, pheromones, breath, pulse, vibrations from impact with the ground

Batman & Shiva Batman's mentor continually bypass the defenses of Luthor, in the Oval Office no less, Superman, Supergirl, Mystics like Madam Xanadu, demons like Neron, Hades alien Warlords like Brainiac Mongul & Darkseid & The Gods of New Genesis, Telepaths like Aquaman & Manhunter

DD WILL register a vague presence, much in the same way Batman registers a vague presence alone with Mr Terrific in a cemetery on a black night.

Shiva will know what DD is feeling, what he's up to, what he's gonna do next and more important how to kill him dead.

Shiva is Bullseye + Mr X + Shang Chi + Samurai Jacks cunning +

Please. Daredevil's senses are not like some trick superior martial artists use. His senses are so advanced he can feel the slightest dip in atmospheric pressre, he can pick out a person by their particualr heartbeat in a city of millions. All of those things you have Shiva doing has also been done by Elektra who Daredevil has no problem predicting. Though she's able to conceal her intentions and strikes from normal opponents Daredevil still picks up on her.

And you must know much about Daredevil. He can also accomplish the things you claim he can't. He can exert a limited amount of control on his internal enviroment to slow down his pulse etc, control his chi plus knows a few handy little ninja tricks. He's not up their with Shiva but he's not to be taken lightly in terms of raw skills.

To sum up, he can sense and thus predict her movements. He can conceal himself enough to prevent her from reading him too much. Daredevil wins

Shiva is more reputation then best fighter.

She lost to BG twice. Shiva has never been able to defeat Batman, and she's had three chances.

And recently Prometheuse wrecked her. She won't be able to mast her heart beat or muscles or movements through the wind that DD will be able to hear. Plus DD has even done so without his senses by just tracking them with his Radar. He isn't just limited.

DD his stats in speed and strength are better.

Shiva wins 8-9/10

lets establish the facts Manhunter has 11 forns of eyesight plus telepathy his Martian hearing and smell is in Krypto's class Superman himself can listen in on a whispered conversation over a bad phone line halfway accross the world, he can read small print from a ciggarrette pack on Earth from deep space, and so on Same applies for his Blood Relative Supergirl.

None of these senses stand up to the mystic arts mastered by Shiva & Batman . Manhunter who has telepathy in the Xavier, Gamesmaster, Manchester Black Oracle class is not so easily brainsided.

Prometheus utilizing tech from Manhunters homeworld conveniently abandoned onPlanet Earth by the White Martians

Prometheus set the technology to download the fighting prowess, skill, experience, moves etc from the cerebral cortex of the 30 GREATEST martial artists on Earth by remote access, kinda like me sitting here and telling my computer to download everything usefull in yr head into mine. Copy.

whaddayaknow the Martian Tech did just that

Shiva couldn't fight herself + batgirl + richard dragon + bronze tiger +eccetera all in one go.

& batgirl is HER only child, shiva took a dive.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Shiva wins 8-9/10
8-9/10 my ass.Originally posted by don't shiv
lets establish the facts Manhunter has 11 forns of eyesight plus telepathy his Martian hearing and smell is in Krypto's class Superman himself can listen in on a whispered conversation over a bad phone line halfway accross the world, he can read small print from a ciggarrette pack on Earth from deep space, and so on Same applies for his Blood Relative Supergirl.

None of these senses stand up to the mystic arts mastered by Shiva & Batman . Manhunter who has telepathy in the Xavier, Gamesmaster, Manchester Black Oracle class is not so easily brainsided.

Prometheus utilizing tech from Manhunters homeworld conveniently abandoned onPlanet Earth by the White Martians

Prometheus set the technology to download the fighting prowess, skill, experience, moves etc from the cerebral cortex of the 30 GREATEST martial artists on Earth by remote access, kinda like me sitting here and telling my computer to download everything usefull in yr head into mine. Copy.

whaddayaknow the Martian Tech did just that

Shiva couldn't fight herself + batgirl + richard dragon + bronze tiger +eccetera all in one go.

& batgirl is HER only child, shiva took a dive.
.........

What?

Daredevil wins because he's a man.

Originally posted by Validus
Daredevil wins because he's a man.

Misogyny is awesome.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Please. Daredevil's senses are not like some trick superior martial artists use. His senses are so advanced he can feel the slightest dip in atmospheric pressre, he can pick out a person by their particualr heartbeat in a city of millions. All of those things you have Shiva doing has also been done by Elektra who Daredevil has no problem predicting. Though she's able to conceal her intentions and strikes from normal opponents Daredevil still picks up on her.

And you must know much about Daredevil. He can also accomplish the things you claim he can't. He can exert a limited amount of control on his internal enviroment to slow down his pulse etc, control his chi plus knows a few handy little ninja tricks. He's not up their with Shiva but he's not to be taken lightly in terms of raw skills.

To sum up, he can sense and thus predict her movements. He can conceal himself enough to prevent her from reading him too much. Daredevil wins

Agreed. Excellent post.

DD 6/10.

I dont see many people beating DD unless they are faster or stronger than him, because he is just way too skilled, and the sense advantage.

DD 8/10

seriously he won't be able to prevent her from reading his moves. she's read better fighters before. She's only lost in a serious battle to Batgirl and Prometheus with her skills as well as others downloaded into her brain. and don't you bring bats cause she was being controlled by Grodd so that point is moot. Shiva 7/10

Originally posted by Superherovandal
seriously he won't be able to prevent her from reading his moves. she's read better fighters before. She's only lost in a serious battle to Batgirl and Prometheus with her skills as well as others downloaded into her brain. and don't you bring bats cause she was being controlled by Grodd so that point is moot. Shiva 7/10

I wasn't gonna bring up that Grodd thing cause that was wrong on so many levels.

And Daredevil has concealed his moves from Elektra, The thing with Daredevil is that cause he can read his opponents moves from their various tells he knows what to do in order to conceal his moves from others.

OH and Shiva wins on Strength & Durability

Shiva has fought continuously for 72 hours, slept for 1 hour and continued for another 72 hours, Shiva can last 2 weeks on 2 hours sleep

kick through living Oak

punch through reinforced concrete

knock out class 100 with one punch

re sensory perception,

Shiva will read as an anomoly, a vague presence violating DD'S personal space just the way

Mr Terriffic reads to Batman even when Batman is scanning the area through his optics, microphones in the cowl on multiple wavelengths, xray, infra red, night vision , ultrasound oral residue... 6th sense... the whole lot'

and just the way

Longshot registered as a vague presence to the sentient ship known as "Ship" "Proffessor" "Prosh", standing on the deck of the celestial Ship!

this was during Inferno the splinter X-posse led by Maddie & Havok based in australia cloaked themselves through alien tech.

DD will know he's not alone ie: there's something to the right ie: an area of space that is inert, registering no activity [no sound waves passing through it, carrying no pollen, with no traces of pheremones or exhaust, WTF? and rapidly approaching, WTF? and that will be his dying thought.

A clean death as befitts a noble warrier, hey Brubaker!

"blinks"


Yeah just keep nodding guys.

DO marvel know you've breached the fourth wall?

Originally posted by don't shiv
re sensory perception,

Shiva will read as an anomoly, a vague presence violating DD'S personal space just the way

She may read that way to normal people but not DD. Other elite Hand ninja are also able to do this and while its harder than normal for him to sense them Daredevil can locate them no problem

Originally posted by don't shiv
Mr Terriffic reads to Batman even when Batman is scanning the area through his optics, microphones in the cowl on multiple wavelengths, xray, infra red, night vision , ultrasound oral residue... 6th sense... the whole lot'

Mr Terrific doesn't show to Bruce cause his power is that he's invisible to technology. Not cause he's some super great ninja

Originally posted by don't shiv
DD will know he's not alone ie: there's something to the right ie: an area of space that is inert, registering no activity

You just said it yourself, he'll sense where she is cause that particualr area is void of everything. Plus DD can feel air rushing around him when someone is gonna strike him. Shiva isn't gonna sneak up on him.

I honestly don't think you know the scope of Daredevil's powers. Your treating him like his Batman or some other random martial artist who Shiva can sneak up on without giving away her presence. Daredevil can and will sense Shiva, plus his senses will allow him to dodge her blows. His radar will help him land blows where they are most effective.

You say not to use the example of Prometheus cause he has her and 29 other tops fighters in his mind. That would explain why he humiliated her. But then again he was almost killed by Green Arrow and Hush so I wouldn't be so quick to put him on a pedestal. Don't forget Batgirl. You say don't use that cause she was hilding back against her only daughter? Well what about the time when Batgirl lost her ability to read people? Shiva had no problem beating her to a pulp. SHe only let her live cause she wanted some competetion.

Matt's wieght is a huge advantage here.

How do you figure that?

He's what 210-220 pounds and she is probably 115-130.

I know that he's heavier but I mean why is it a liability. Its doesn't effect his speed and his weight is ideally suited for his pugilist techniques

the point is she can't be stopped from being read. and even elite Hand Ninjas are cannon fodder. they're just the "elite" stupid morons who could be taken on by Jubilee. just as his radar gives him the ability to dodge her moves so will she dodge his moves. She's read better like Richard Dragon for instance?

Originally posted by Superherovandal
the point is she can't be stopped from being read. and even elite Hand Ninjas are cannon fodder. they're just the "elite" stupid morons who could be taken on by Jubilee. just as his radar gives him the ability to dodge her moves so will she dodge his moves. She's read better like Richard Dragon for instance?

The best fighters in Marvel can be read by Daredevil. Wolverine, Shang Chi, Iron Fist etc can all be read and predicted by those guys.

No she can't dodge him in the same way that she can Richard. See is not nearly as adept at sensing people as he is. Go back to Batgirl. She's dodged Shiva's moves by reading her and her skills are basically a rip of Daredevil's. The ability to anticipate your opponents, sense where they are going to strike before even they know. You are severely underestimating Daredevil my friend

and apparently you underestimate Batgirl. she's a better fighter than Daredevil and quite fast. able to dodge multiple bullets at point blank range so losing to her isn't something to be ashamed of. She's just better than Shiva but that doesn't mean that Shiva shouldn't beat Daredevil. apparently you don't know how well Shiva reads moves.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
and apparently you underestimate Batgirl. she's a better fighter than Daredevil and quite fast. able to dodge multiple bullets at point blank range so losing to her isn't something to be ashamed of.


Wait you mean Batgirl can dodge bullets?!??!

Wow! Daredevil could never do something like that.............................................................

Originally posted by Superherovandal
and apparently you underestimate Batgirl. she's a better fighter than Daredevil and quite fast. able to dodge multiple bullets at point blank range so losing to her isn't something to be ashamed of. She's just better than Shiva but that doesn't mean that Shiva shouldn't beat Daredevil. apparently you don't know how well Shiva reads moves.

You don't know the context this is in. Don't shiv said not to use Batgirl as an example cause she holds back against Batgirl. I simply pointed out that wasn't the case and that Shiva is not invincible. I know all about Batgirl, her enhanced abilities and her skills. I know all about Shiva's ability to determine her opponents moves by watching their movements. And I know all about how she can even learn a person's entire fighting style just from watching a few moves. Apparently you're the one who's doesn't know much about Daredevil and his senses. Or about Daredevil and his ninja abilities. Daredevil can will be able to predict her moves cause he's done the same to other supposedly "unreadable fighters", he's been able to shield his moves from those who are also able to read moves (cause of his own signature style that shields his moves). If you don't no much about Daredevil at least check out the respect thread to get a handle on the character

Shiva would annihilate daredevil. . DD would hold his own,for a while, but eventually,she'll get the upper hand and beat him into the ground.
I dont know about all that pheromone stuff, but i do know that you dont become the head assasin of a 600 year old , genocidal madman with a penchant for coming back from the dead by just being"pretty damn good".

DD can deflect bullets at point blank range and DD is a better fighter. Apparently you don't know how well DD knows someone is going to attack before the attacker even knows.

Plus his stats are better.

since when is DD a wayyy better fighter than Cassie Batgirl. She's probably the best human fighter in DCU better than Batman, and Lady Shiva. So don't you go saying DD is better than her. and Batgirl can easily read people including Lady Shiva who can read also. SO your point about him reading her is moot. and DD was being owned by Echo who copied his moves well Batgirl would do that wayy better. She'd know his whole style like an open book just by fighting him for like a minute.

BG isn't the best in her own universe.

She couldn't beat Connor when they fought. And she couldn't beat Batman. So claims like she is the best are not true.

this fight is like Kitt sentient CPU from KnightRider vs the "Proffessor"

Kitt is good, his scanners are rad, his ability to hack into technology is rad, however the "proffessor" would cloak itself from kitt without effort, it would be impossible for Kitt to do the same.
The Proffessor" could easily rewrite Kitts programming, likewise there is no chance Kitt could breach the proffesser's security

The fight would go like this,

"The Proffessor" saves the blueprints to Kitts programming

30 seconds of polite conversation

Kitt self destructs.

substitute Shiva for "T.P." & DD for Kitt and there you have it.
Shiva owns DD.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
since when is DD a wayyy better fighter than Cassie Batgirl. She's probably the best human fighter in DCU better than Batman, and Lady Shiva. So don't you go saying DD is better than her. and Batgirl can easily read people including Lady Shiva who can read also. SO your point about him reading her is moot. and DD was being owned by Echo who copied his moves well Batgirl would do that wayy better. She'd know his whole style like an open book just by fighting him for like a minute.

Lol. Did you read the fight with Echo? He knew she was being manipulated into fighting him, plus he had started to fall for her from a date they had earlier. He didn't want to fight her and was doing pretty good for someone trying not to hurt her. In fact he lead her into a dark room just so he could escape

Originally posted by don't shiv
this fight is like Kitt sentient CPU from KnightRider vs the "Proffessor"

Kitt is good, his scanners are rad, his ability to hack into technology is rad, however the "proffessor" would cloak itself from kitt without effort, it would be impossible for Kitt to do the same.
The Proffessor" could easily rewrite Kitts programming, likewise there is no chance Kitt could breach the proffesser's security

The fight would go like this,

"The Proffessor" saves the blueprints to Kitts programming

30 seconds of polite conversation

Kitt self destructs.

substitute Shiva for "T.P." & DD for Kitt and there you have it.
Shiva owns DD.

Your entire argument hinges of Shiva being able to read Daredevil with Matt not being able to read her. Its the exact opposite. Please, find out something about Daredevil before you argue against him. He's not just a blind man who can hear really well you know

I like it when you say please.

Originally posted by don't shiv
OH and Shiva wins on Strength & Durability

Shiva has fought continuously for 72 hours, slept for 1 hour and continued for another 72 hours, Shiva can last 2 weeks on 2 hours sleep

kick through living Oak

punch through reinforced concrete

knock out class 100 with one punch

my analysis considers other aspects besides sensory perception.

Originally posted by don't shiv
my analysis considers other aspects besides sensory perception.

Daredevil also has similiar feats of endurance. He's faced hundred of ninja's days at a time and I'd venture to say ninjas>street punks. And War Games wasn't that impressive IMO. Sure it was impressive that Bruce went for so long but at the end he was so weak Black Mask was giving him trouble. I applaud the realism of it but it doesn't strike me as all that impressive.

Daredecvil has put down Mr Hyde with pressure points.

Daredevil has flipped over a limo.

I'd say he's also pretty and strong and durable

Originally posted by don't shiv
I like it when you say please.

Well I do strive to be polite

A Worthy Advesary, Well Met MarvelPrince.