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its superman and the Runner and Juggernaut combine vs gl hal silver surfer and martain man hunter combine
1 mi of perp
in a ice place who wins

No spectators can post. This is the mini tourney for the AMC to decide who goes to the actual tourney. (they have nothing better to do )

the trooy begians at 10:15 to let the guys get scans

so they're merged into one person right? no clue..

yes no more post by noun amc muders

*NON OFFICIAL POST*
Are Red and Blue Energy Superman's feats interchangable, or do I just use Blue's?

Blue's is better

Originally posted by darthgoober
*NON OFFICIAL POST*
Are Red and Blue Energy Superman's feats interchangable, or do I just use Blue's?

They have the same powers, so whatever...

I shall whatch from the outskirts of the battlefield.
Comense forth.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/watcherUatu.jpg

Opening Strategy

This is how it is going to go down.

To start things off, Since I have Hal's mind/ willpower, plus the ring, I have all of Hal's powers, plus extra.
The first thing I am going to do is, create the constructs of the Gl corps. This will happen quite easily. Since Hal has done so before.

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/1532/dayofjudgement407ee4.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8751/dayofjudgement409bqv2.jpg
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/1295/dayofjudgement413tw2.jpg

Now since I have some serious firepower.
I will have Hal use Martian Manhunter's armour.
http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=049vf.jpg


Next I will create a hologram. This hologram has even fooled Galactus, So along with my army, I will have 2 or 3 of my normal characters. Only one real.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer6-30a.jpg

All of that is easily accomplished in a minute.
I think I'm done with prep.


Now for my battle plan.

Since Superman Blue is a energy being.
It shouldn't be too hard to absorb his energy.
Since, Surfer can absorb a sun.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1747/solar2kn9.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2949/solar4dt6.jpg

Plus my character is a lot faster than yours, and it shouldn't be too hard to get around him and get his helmut off.

Half a million light years, in mere moments.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4103/silversurfervol3006ml7.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/820/silversurfervol3007og1.jpg

A light year speedblitz.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/InfinityGauntlet4p35.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/InfinityGauntlet4p36.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/InfinityGauntlet4p37.jpg

Martian Manhunter owning some people with his speed.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6299634


Then I will probably start off telepathically raping your guy.
Here Manhunter links everyone's mind on earth to each other.
http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14414294621e78516a5o7at.jpg
http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=144142945747c4f95f5o4uk.jpg

Or I could just phase through your helmut.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Home_coming06.jpg

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6298125
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6298132

Or my guy could shrink down, get into your helmut, and unload on him.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7103/104eo.th.jpg http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5369/117sp.th.jpg http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4103/124xd.th.jpg http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5545/135em1.th.jpg




Plus I have shields on my side.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1997_125_26.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_146_12.jpg

A blasts that they aren't even sure Superman will survive.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/b75d772c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/6254e4b2.jpg

I can always amp my strength up.
http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fm198000917.jpg

And I can always stop time.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a22a8b50.jpg

Keep in mind, that this is completely ignoring my army of constructs, and my body armour, and my couple of holograms.

Originally posted by bigbran
To start things off, Since I have Hal's mind/ willpower, plus the ring, I have all of Hal's powers, plus extra.
The first thing I am going to do is, create the constructs of the Gl corps. This will happen quite easily. Since Hal has done so before.

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/1532/dayofjudgement407ee4.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8751/dayofjudgement409bqv2.jpg
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/1295/dayofjudgement413tw2.jpg

This kind of crap is way too uber to be in here.

Originally posted by bigbran
And I can always stop time.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a22a8b50.jpg

This kind of stuff won't be allowed in the actual tourney fyi.

Originally posted by batdude123
This kind of stuff won't be allowed in the actual tourney fyi. Originally posted by batdude123
This kind of crap is way too uber to be in here.
*non offical*
Damn!

I was going to edit in more things, but then it was too late.
After I seen that, it looked a little short.

But anyways, thanks Batdude.

Originally posted by bigbran
*non offical*
Damn!

I was going to edit in more things, but then it was too late.
After I seen that, it looked a little short.

But anyways, thanks Batdude.

No problem.

OK then, let's get this party started.

I'll spend the first second of my prep time raising the Juggernaut's forcefield. This will render me invulnerable to non psychic attacks(which I'm protected from by my helmet), as demonstrated here...
http://img109.imagesh

ack.us/img109/4413/stopshammerdg1.th.jpg

I'll then spend another second, raising a second shield, using the abilities of Superman Blue. As demonstrated here...

http://img247.imageshack.u

s/img247/2589/shieldij3.th.jpg
Also, if it's not already active, Ill activate the Runners 'Likeable' power. Now remember,

the Runners power makes his opponents like him, even in while in combat, that means that there's NO WAY you'll be using Hal's ring completely effectively, because the rings power

depends on WILL. And your will is going to be negatively effected, by the intense feeling of like that you have towards me. Maybe not negated, but defiantly subject.
Another funny thing about the Runner, is the he is about the only being to ever out speed Surfer. Both the likability and speed advantage are demonstrated here...
http://img136.image

shack.us/img136/1764/runnersurfer1qr0.th.jpg
http://img168.image

shack.us/img168/6610/runnersurfer2sv9.th.jpg
Hell, Runner's so fast, he can even blitz Thanos(which NO ONE else has ever done). Check it out...
http://img63.imagesh

ack.us/img63/1368/runnerthanos1ih3.th.jpg
http://img135.image

shack.us/img135/3549/runnerthanos3kv3.th.jpg

So there's NO WAY, your coming anywhere near me, unless I want you to.


That's about it for prep. Now for my battle plan...

I could always...

Smack you around if it gets physical, just ask Thor...
http://img58.imagesh

ack.us/img58/1761/thorbackslap1ue5.th.jpg
http://img235.image

shack.us/img235/2996/thorbackslap2ia7.th.jpg
http://img178.imag

eshack.us/img178/1606/overpowersthornv5.th.jpg
Or the Stranger(a cosmic level entity)
http://img178.imagesh

ack.us/img178/4131/strangerhitua7.th.jpg


But don't rely on physical power alone, not when I can do things like this...

http://img169.imageshack

.us/img169/3773/supsbad2vy4.th.jpgNotice the comment on INFINITE POTENTIAL?

And if by some miracle you do manage to hurt me, well that don't mean a thing, cause I got a healing factor that puts Wolverine's to shame.
http://img96.imageshack.us

/img96/1937/healingdt5.th.jpg
This is SECONDS after having his eyes stabbed out by a MYSTIC SWORD.
I think the best thing to sum up just how invincible I am would be...
http://img79.imageshack.us/i

mg79/5633/bonesuw1.th.jpg

So between being stronger,faster, invulnerable, equal in energy manipulation, and near instant healing, you ain't gotta chance.


(Forgive me if I did this wrong, I have NO experience at this at all.)

Bump.

*not-post*

I'm not going to lie this should be lopsided to the nth degree but I won't say which person it is.

*Non official*

How far away are we when we start?

I don't know.

Must fight and restain urges, oops my bad!

Originally posted by batdude123
This kind of crap is way too uber to be in here.
The power of Green Lantern too much for you to handle?

Originally posted by Validus
The power of Green Lantern too much for you to handle?

Go post in my MM and Viz vs Etri and Blues thread!! Quickly man!!

I need the support!

Don't miss my Blue Devil and Vision fight either


















































Green Lantern owns Superman


























gotta go!!!

Originally posted by Validus
The power of Green Lantern too much for you to handle?

Creating the entire GL corps to help him? eer

Originally posted by newjak86
I'm not going to lie this should be lopsided to the nth degree but I won't say which person it is.
Non Offical.

Because someone has your favorite character right?

Originally posted by batdude123
Creating the entire GL corps to help him? eer
It's as valid as an energy blast.

Originally posted by bigbran
Non Offical.

Because someone has your favorite character right? That and some other stuff I know about figure is going to happen

Originally posted by Validus
It's as valid as an energy blast.

Not really.

Originally posted by batdude123
Not really. I have to agree with Val if he can do it let it fly

Originally posted by newjak86
I have to agree with Val if he can do it let it fly

Course you do. You were trying to use Daxamites that were constructed by the ring.

just an interesting tid bit:
out of Superman, Runner, juggernaut,hal gl, silver surfer, martian manhunter
Runner gets the majority over any of those individually.

Originally posted by Inhuman
just an interesting tid bit:
out of Superman, Runner, juggernaut,hal gl, silver surfer, martian manhunter
Runner gets the majority over any of those individually.


That wasn't necessary for you to post that.

Originally posted by batdude123
That wasn't necessary for you to post that.

I know but i wanted to even things out because some were comenting on how this was lopsided
when it really wasnt. Both teams(hybid hero), I think are equally powerfull in their own rights.

Originally posted by batdude123
No spectators can post. This is the mini tourney for the AMC to decide who goes to the actual tourney.
Could you guys actually listen? please *sorry but had to be said

I think this fight is pretty even...

Originally posted by darthgoober
OK then, let's get this party started.

I'll spend the first second of my prep time raising the Juggernaut's forcefield. This will render me invulnerable to non psychic attacks(which I'm protected from by my helmet), as demonstrated here...
http://img109.imagesh

ack.us/img109/4413/stopshammerdg1.th.jpg
How well would it protect against intangabity?
I seem to remember a certain Vision phasing through Juggs helmet and into his head.
Plus I have two characters that can do it.
I'm pretty sure if I was just a purley physical character, then I might be seriously screwed, but I'm not.
So maybe your not as safe as you think.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'll then spend another second, raising a second shield, using the abilities of Superman Blue. As demonstrated here...

http://img247.imageshack.u

s/img247/2589/shieldij3.th.jpg My first response is, that with all your shields, what can you do to hurt me, since your also confined into your shields.
But with my phasing, and matter manipulation, I don't think it's going to be too hard to get through your defenses.
If not, I can always blow up the planet your on, and make you go into a black hole, as shown here.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6619/annihilationsilversurfer10196y.th.jpg


Originally posted by darthgoober
Also, if it's not already active, Ill activate the Runners 'Likeable' power. Now remember,

the Runners power makes his opponents like him, even in while in combat, that means that there's NO WAY you'll be using Hal's ring completely effectively, because the rings power

depends on WILL. And your will is going to be negatively effected, by the intense feeling of like that you have towards me. Maybe not negated, but defiantly subject.
Another funny thing about the Runner, is the he is about the only being to ever out speed Surfer. Both the likability and speed advantage are demonstrated here...
With a willpower such as Hal's, I shouldn't have one problem with this.
Why do you think hal's one of the most powerful gl's?
It's because his willpower is so high!
He can absically resist most of the things that you throw at me. Especially when your trying to tamper with my emotions.

Originally posted by darthgoober
http://img136.image

shack.us/img136/1764/runnersurfer1qr0.th.jpg
http://img168.image

shack.us/img168/6610/runnersurfer2sv9.th.jpg That would be good....if Surfer didn't go and kick his ass in the next issue.
Everyone basically beats SS in there first appearance, Morg, Runner, etc.
But both of those people got there asses handed to them in the next issue.
Plus his speed can be countered especially since I have a GL ring on my side, that can work even when I don't will it t work.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hell, Runner's so fast, he can even blitz Thanos(which NO ONE else has ever done). Check it out...
http://img63.imagesh

ack.us/img63/1368/runnerthanos1ih3.th.jpg
http://img135.image

shack.us/img135/3549/runnerthanos3kv3.th.jpg
Are you forgetting that Runner had the space gem for that fight?
Then he got turned into a baby later, by Thanos.
If I gave my characters the Space gem, I bet they could eaily Sb Thanos too.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So there's NO WAY, your coming anywhere near me, unless I want you to.
I doubt that.
Remeber that I still have illusions on my side, and I still have some constructs.
So, while your off being distracted, I will phase through your shield, and totally screw up your mind.
Plus, how do you think your going to touch me threw some of my things?
Originally posted by darthgoober
That's about it for prep. Now for my battle plan...

I could always...

Smack you around if it gets physical, just ask Thor...
http://img58.imagesh

ack.us/img58/1761/thorbackslap1ue5.th.jpg
http://img235.image

shack.us/img235/2996/thorbackslap2ia7.th.jpg
http://img178.imag

eshack.us/img178/1606/overpowersthornv5.th.jpg You think my people are strangers to pure physical might?
You'd better think again.
Hal. Hmm...this also shows one of the shields I could create in the first second of the battle. I mean, I still have some constructs and illusions right?
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/b662ec0c.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7bd5fcaa.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/efcbd6ea.jpg

Silver Surfer. Against Champion with the wristbands.
Let me ask you something, when has Juggernaut shown enough power to destroy a planet....I won't get an answer so I'll continue.
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=champ0th2.jpg
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=champim5.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=champ1vn7.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=champ2gq5.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=champ3vf3.jpg
^^^^^
That kind of beats your Jugg feat, doesn't it?

MM has also fought with Supes.
http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swisscheese7gw.jpg


Originally posted by darthgoober
Or the Stranger(a cosmic level entity)
http://img178.imagesh

ack.us/img178/4131/strangerhitua7.th.jpg Hasn't SS beaten Stranger....alone?
Juggs hit him once, when he had a team, and Stranger got up in the next panel.
Good try though.



Originally posted by darthgoober
But don't rely on physical power alone, not when I can do things like this...

http://img169.imageshack

.us/img169/3773/supsbad2vy4.th.jpgNotice the comment on INFINITE POTENTIAL? Ok, then Surfer can absorb anything, because it has been stated.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5397085

Cept, I have some proof of this absorbing powers.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1747/solar2kn9.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2949/solar4dt6.jpg


Originally posted by darthgoober
And if by some miracle you do manage to hurt me, well that don't mean a thing, cause I got a healing factor that puts Wolverine's to shame.
http://img96.imageshack.us

/img96/1937/healingdt5.th.jpg
This is SECONDS after having his eyes stabbed out by a MYSTIC SWORD.
I think the best thing to sum up just how invincible I am would be...
http://img79.imageshack.us/i

mg79/5633/bonesuw1.th.jpg
If, that puts Wolverine's to shame then, mine would put yours to bed without supper.
MM regenates from just one arm.
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=regrow11ch.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=regrow28mx.jpg

MM regenrates from a little drop of goop.
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=volcano2om5qt.jpg

Surfer is completely healed in the next panel.
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unilord2eb3.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unilord3vk4.jpg

This is of course, saying that IF you are able to seriously hurt my guy.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-14.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Star_Masters_2_009.jpg

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5671022


Originally posted by darthgoober
So between being stronger,faster, invulnerable, equal in energy manipulation, and near instant healing, you ain't gotta chance.
More durible yes. Stronger, maybe. Those 2 don't matter though, when I have the abilty to make you go down in just a couple attacks.
I could phase through your shields and get into your helmet. Screwing with your mind.
Or I could get your helmet off, and mind rape you.

You definately aren't better in energy manipulation.
Hal is one of the best, and Surfer may even be equal.
Hal can instantly stop time, create beings that are esentially the gl corps, etc.
Surfer can time travel, absorb, a nearly limitless amount, etc.

My healing factor far surpasses yours too.

My speed, probably is better too.

Originally posted by darthgoober
(Forgive me if I did this wrong, I have NO experience at this at all.) You did it right.

Originally posted by bigbran
I'm pretty sure if I was just a purley physical character, then I might be seriously screwed, but I'm not.
So maybe your not as safe as you think.
Ah bigbran, you ARE screwed. You see, Supes has a little something for people who's defense lies in their intangibility, check it out...
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2530/nophasinghq2.th.jpg

So no intangibility for you. Sorry.

Originally posted by bigbran
If not, I can always blow up the planet your on, and make you go into a black hole, as shown here.


Truthfully, my shields won't hurt you at all(I've got something else planned for that). Just like your black hole, won't hurt me. See aside from Juggs durability, I have the advantage of have an Elder of the Universe as a component. See Elders draw from a energy source just as powerful as the power cosmic, and a black hole is totally survivable to those who posses it. The Runner and the other Elders all survived during Galactus's battle with the In-betweener.


With a willpower such as Hal's, I shouldn't have one problem with this.

So your saying that IN YOUR OPINION, it won't be a problem? But you don't have any proof that Hal could resist something like that. But, I do see where your coming from, it's not like anyone has ever manipulated Hal and affected his emotional state. *Cough*Parallax*Cough*

That would be good....if Surfer didn't go and kick his ass in the next issue.

Any proof of this ass kicking? I can guarantee that you don't have any, because Surfer and Runner NEVER fought in that issue. MANTIS tripped Runner, but that's it. Then a little bit later, Surfer and Mantis ran away.


Are you forgetting that Runner had the space gem for that fight?
B]
Come on bigbran, your better than that. We both know that the Runner NEVER used the gem in that fight. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Thanos...
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2029/runnerthanos8zp1.th.jpg
Notice he says that the gem DIDN'T make runner faster. It gave him teleportation abilities. Did YOU see those in action? Didn't think so, so yes, my guy IS faster.

I doubt that.
Remeber that I still have illusions on my side, and I still have some constructs.
So, while your off being distracted, I will phase through your shield, and totally screw up your mind.
I'll get to these in a minute...

Silver Surfer. Against Champion with the wristbands.
Let me ask you something, when has Juggernaut shown enough power to destroy a planet....I won't get an answer so I'll continue.

Sorry bigbran, but for some reason I can't make out the words on panel to properly describe what's going on(I'm not denying it, but your going to have to let me know what's being said). But I can say, that it didn't look like any planet was destroyed during the fight that you posted. A big asteroid(seemed about building size, which is decent), but no planet. To my knowledge, the only time the Champion ever destroyed a planet physically, was when he had the power gem, which makes a BIG difference(since HE was using it to become stronger, unlike the Runner with the space gem).

That kind of beats your Jugg feat, doesn't it?
What? Breaking out of the asteroids? Yeah, that was decent. But Juggs has some feats that compare...
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4546/buildingripvs5.th.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5928/godblast2qm9.th.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2814/xspiderman016207okkg5.th.jpg


Hasn't SS beaten Stranger....alone?
And Surfers victory was impressive, I'll admit, but do you have any evidence of him knocking him to the ground PHYSICALLY with one shot?



Ok, then Surfer can absorb anything, because it has been stated.
Actually, it's been stated that he could absorb and reflect(notice he said reflect AND absorb, he didn't say he could simply absorb a neat infinite amount), of Firelords EXTERNAL energy ball. The blast Firelord were shooting affected him just fine.

Cept, I have some proof of this absorbing powers.
And if I were a sun, that wasn't fighting back I'd be worried.


If, that puts Wolverine's to shame then, mine would put yours to bed without supper.
MM regenates from just one arm.

MM regenrates from a little drop of goop.
Yes, and if you had Manhunter's body, this fight would take a while if it were to the death. But since Surfers body isn't made up of the same stuff as MM's, I don't think those feat's apply. It seems to me(though I could be wrong, I don't know much about Manhunter), that from the look of those scans, that he possesses sentience through out his entire cellular structure. But your character doesn't HAVE MM's cellular structure. He has Surfer's. Also, if those feats DO apply, notice that he awoke in both instances. But if you'll notice, Juggernaut is still conscious in my scan of him as a skeleton and helmet.

No one said this was a fight to the death, so if your guy is KO'd, I still win.

Surfer is completely healed in the next panel.Yes, and if it were a fight to the death, that might worry me. But since Surfer's been KO'd plenty of times, I'll just take that route.

This is of course, saying that IF you are able to seriously hurt my guy.
Which I should be ale to do, since I don't plan on dropping you out of the sky, shooting you with guns, or using fire on you.



I'll just cover everything else all at once. Now as far as getting my helmet off, it's NEVER going to happen, as long a Juggs forcefield is up(and unlike the character Juggs, I don't plan on taking it down, unless I phase of course). And regarding all your post about your constructs and your abilities as a GL, well I got some BAD news for you. Here, I think Supes can explain it best...
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/6521/536647bw6.th.jpg
So sorry, no constructs or GL shields for you, you'll just have to rely on Surfer's abilities.And as for your illusions, well Supes explains that best to...
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9544/absorbtion3yt8.th.png
So unless they're mystic(which they're not), they're still a form of energy, and subject to draining(which I will do). All I have to do, is to expend the effort to absorb 'all' of you at once, and then fight who ever is left. And after that, it's just a matter of phasing through Surfers shields(if they're not down too, and they should be), and absorbing YOUR energy, like so...
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9360/adventuresofsuperman552146dxjs2.th.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6069/adventuresofsuperman552155tbos8.th.jpg

None of this should be a problem, given that your guys probably going to be standing there with a stupid look on his face, trying to figure out what happened to all his stuff(plus his mind wont be working well anyway, since I'm messing with his central nervous system). And while your character MIGHT rival Juggs in strength, I'll just use the energy I absorb from you, to boost my size and strength, ala Supes, like this...
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2623/millieniumgiantnd8.th.jpg
That's a Millennium Giant. And while I'm not silly enough to compare them to Marvels Celestials(like some), it should be clear that once I do that, your strength won't be anywhere NEAR mine. If you add to that the fact that you'll be weakened and dazed from the energy absorption, I should be able to make short work of you(since I've already shown that intangibility on your part ain't gonna happen).

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ah... Considering the guy who he did that to, was said on panel, to not be able to phase like Supes can, I'm pretty sure, this won't have any affect on my guy.
If it did, I never said I relyed completely on my intangibility, I was using it as an alternative.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So... Nope, It's still on.
Unless you have one, wheer it affects someone with actual intangibility, then I'm stumped.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Truthfully... No, but if your not going to take down your shields, then how are you going to attack me?
SInce your shields are going to be in the way.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just... Never said it will, but I will explain it soon.

Originally posted by darthgoober
See... Alot of people had this ability, but it never helped them in a fight with Surfer.
It's not really an adavantage.

Originally posted by darthgoober
and... Of course it's survivable.
But, if you leave the battlefield, then that would count as a win for me.
I was only planning to bfr you. Since you want to hid behind your shield, then why don't I create a black hole, right where your standing?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So... No, but as soon as my internet is working correctly, I will explain. But as of right now, Hal's will should negate all of this, since he has fought off much more.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But you don't have any proof that Hal could resist something like that. But, I do see where your coming from,

Originally posted by darthgoober
...*Cough...
Wait!!!
Your comparing anyone in this thing to Parallax?
Plus, I don't see how this is a low showing, since Parallax is over Galactus.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Any... I'll try and get scans, when my internet isn't screwy.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Come....
Hmm, I can't see the scan, but I do know what it says. Isn't it talking about how Runner had the ability to transport before he even thinks it? So how would we know, if he's doing it or not, since it was explained AFTER the battle? There not going to give it away during it. Plus, I guess Champion never used the gem either....

Originally posted by darthgoober
Notice... Why would we see his instant teleportion, when he is already traveling at the speed of light? And how would we see it, when it gets explained how the gem works at the end of the battle? Plus, my guy has been powered up. (Silver Surfer)

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'll... ok.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry...
Even if it was a small asteroid, it's still more than what Juggs has destroyed with his punches. And as soon as my internets up and running properly, I'll tell you. Plus, if he wasn't using his Space gem, in the Thanos fight,(as you say) then why would Champ be able to use his?

Originally posted by darthgoober
What? Breaking out of the asteroids? Yeah, that was decent. But Juggs has some feats that compare...
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4546/buildingripvs5.th.jpg How does lifting a side of a building compare to blowing apart a big asteroid?
Plus, I was talking about how hard he can hit, not how much he can lift.

Originally posted by darthgoober
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5928/godblast2qm9.th.jpg How does breaking out of metal, also compare to crushing an asteroid? It doesn't.

Originally posted by darthgoober
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2814/xspiderman016207okkg5.th.jpg Can you explain of what is happening there?
I really can't tell.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And Surfers victory.. I never said he did anything physical.
I said he has beaten him alone.
While Juggernaut had Omega level Iceman, and Phoenix on his side.
Plus he only knocked him down for a second, and he got right back up, not really a ko.
Surfer on the other hand has dealt with him by himself. While the only feat involving Juggs and him, are him knocking him down for a second.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually... If he can absorb, and reflect, then what does that have to do with this, other than I can do both? Plus, I just wanted to answer your charcter talking about himself(or whatever) with Surfer talking abouut himself. Then I backed up his power absorbation, with scans.
Which you haven't backed up the "beyond infinate" quote.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And if I were...
Not the point.
The point was that I was showing Surfer's near limitless absorbing power, and he could absorb Supes energy.
Because it's not like he exploit's weaknesses or anything.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes... But I thought we had all of our character's abilitys. So now we are going to take away from them.
If that's the case, then wouldn't you not have Superman's powers, and I wouldn't have MM's?
Because if that's what your getting at, then I don't get the point of this.
So if I don't have his powers, then your body wouldn't be having Superman's.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No... He was only like that, because his entire head was gone. I'm pretty sure, not everyone is awake when they don't have a head.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes... I was showing that since Surfer survived that vicious attack, and was still awake. I figured that it would leave yours in the dust.
Plus, I also don't think your going to be doing that much damage to my character.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Which...
I was just showing my duribility. So that's just Surfer's part, and he was able to shrug those things off like nothing. So it's going to take more to activate my healing factor.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'll... Again, if your not going to take it down, then how are you going to attack me?
Plus, I can just phase through your shield, and through your helmet, as shown as soon as this damn thing is working correctly.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And... So he cancelled out all of his power? No! The constrct was still there, and it still had it's power.
And did they attack him directly?
Plus, I have more than one construct coming at you, along with with my illusions, and my actual character.
Plus, if your going to have your shields up the whole time, then how are you going to deal with them?

Originally posted by darthgoober
And as... One thing. The Illusion fooled Galactus!
Galactus!

Originally posted by darthgoober
So unless they're mystic(which they're not), they're still a form of energy, and subject to draining(which I will do). All I have to do, is to expend the effort to absorb 'all' of you at once, and then fight who ever is left.
At this time, you will be distracted, as was my purpose of the illusions in the first place. So basically they, have worked there purpose. Plus, how are you going to drain, the GL ring, and Surfer's powers? It's not happening.

Originally posted by darthgoober
None... Is this an assumption?
Shit has happened to all my characters before, plus most of this is not going to happen.
If not, I'll just shrink down, and dodge some of your attacks.

Originally posted by darthgoober
As soon as this thing starts working, I will answer this. Your growing, will not do anything, when I also have the ability to grow.

Plus, how are you going to affect my central nervous system?


Originally posted by darthgoober
That's... As well as you shouldn't. But if you aren't, then how powerful exactly are they?

Originally posted by darthgoober
it... My intangibility is still on.
Plus, how are you going to drain me? I still have Surfer, and the rings power. Which have shown amazing feats that have been over Superman Blue's. Has Superman ever absorbed something with as much energy as a sun? A red sun, none-the-less. Which is way bigger than a normal sun.

P.S. Can I post scans later?(like in a non offical post) My internet is not working, and I can't click on anything, or else my link closes.(that's why most of your posts with scans, have went unanswered) So far I've had to write this thing 3 times. (this being my 3rd) So it's really neen pissing me off. In the first 2 I posted a couple scans, but this time, I haven't been so lucky. I just needed to get the words out of the way, so I could make way for the scans. I also can't right click anything.

*NON OFFICIAL*
I don't mind if you post the pics seperately.

Originally posted by bigbran
No, but as soon as my internet is working correctly, I will explain. But as of right now, Hal's will should negate all of this, since he has fought off much more.
Overcoming Sinestro.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/4411151e.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/fd640099.jpg


Originally posted by bigbran
Even if it was a small asteroid, it's still more than what Juggs has destroyed with his punches. And as soon as my internets up and running properly, I'll tell you. Plus, if he wasn't using his Space gem, in the Thanos fight,(as you say) then why would Champ be able to use his? Can't remember, but the fact is that he was able to throw a fairly big asteroid, with enough power to make another one blow up, and it still didn't harm Surfer.
I'm just pointing out, how someone with a higher strength level than Juggs faired against Surfer, because you said, you would smack him around.
Originally posted by bigbran
Not the point.
The point was that I was showing Surfer's near limitless absorbing power, and he could absorb Supes energy.
Because it's not like he exploit's weaknesses or anything.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer5-18a.jpg

He's also done so to Hulk, and others.

Originally posted by bigbran
Again, if your not going to take it down, then how are you going to attack me?
Plus, I can just phase through your shield, and through your helmet, as shown as soon as this damn thing is working correctly.
Vision has done so, and he would have put him down if it wasn't for Hulk.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5746/1ta9xq1.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/913/2qt2gu8.jpg

Originally posted by bigbran
Is this an assumption?
Shit has happened to all my characters before, plus most of this is not going to happen.
If not, I'll just shrink down, and dodge some of your attacks. As shown here, just by Surfer, but all of my characters can shrink.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer2-19a.jpg
Originally posted by bigbran
As soon as this thing starts working, I will answer this. Your growing, will not do anything, when I also have the ability to grow. I can always steal mass.
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=japan59bu1ok.jpg

Or I can just plain grow.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/add8db95.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3bf1938.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/be12bfd5.jpg

There, that should be it, for my scans.

Originally posted by bigbran
Considering the guy who he did that to, was said on panel, to not be able to phase like Supes can, I'm pretty sure, this won't have any affect on my guy.
If it did, I never said I relyed completely on my intangibility, I was using it as an alternative.

Nope, It's still on.
Unless you have one, wheer it affects someone with actual intangibility, then I'm stumped. That's where your wrong, I've given proof that Supes can negate some forms of intangibility, so unless you have proof that your characters don't use that form of intangibility, you can't factor your intangibility into your game plan, because you can't prove that it would work.

No, but if your not going to take down your shields, then how are you going to attack me?
SInce your shields are going to be in the way.As I said before, my shields will remain up until I phase through YOUR shields.

Alot of people had this ability, but it never helped them in a fight with Surfer.
It's not really an adavantage.Not sure what ability your talking about here.

Of course it's survivable.
But, if you leave the battlefield, then that would count as a win for me.
I was only planning to bfr you. Since you want to hid behind your shield, then why don't I create a black hole, right where your standing?It only counts a a BFR if I can't make it back, but Runner DID make it back, see...

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2465/silversurfer198801823endzk9.jpg That's him coming out of the Black hole, with Galactus and the rest.

No, but as soon as my internet is working correctly, I will explain. But as of right now, Hal's will should negate all of this, since he has fought off much more.
Hey, Surfers got one of the strongest wills in Marvel, not many can affect him either, and it worked just fine on him.

Wait!!!
Your comparing anyone in this thing to Parallax?
Plus, I don't see how this is a low showing, since Parallax is over Galactus.
Not really comparing, just pointing out that it can't be said that Hal is immune to someone tampering with his emotions.


Hmm, I can't see the scan, but I do know what it says. Isn't it talking about how Runner had the ability to transport before he even thinks it? So how would we know, if he's doing it or not, since it was explained AFTER the battle? There not going to give it away during it. Plus, I guess Champion never used the gem either...
Why would we see his instant teleportion, when he is already traveling at the speed of light? And how would we see it, when it gets explained how the gem works at the end of the battle?

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1764/runnersurfer1qr0.th.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6610/runnersurfer2sv9.th.jpg
Now at what point in this battle, was there ANY indication of teleportation?
And in his battle with Thanos, you actually SEE the speed trails as he passes, if he were teleporting, there would be a *BAMF* effect(like Nightcrawler)
And I'll show you the difference between what happened with Runner/Thanos and Champion Thanos
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5088/thanosquest135xd7.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/663/thanosquest136hj4.jpg
Notice Thanos's comments on how the Champion didn't know he had such power, and how his anger was unchecked. Well of course he didn't know he had kind of power, because he didn't realize that he was drawing on the gem subconsciously for power as a result of his anger(like Drax). Your free to disagree, but I'm pretty sure the judges will see it my way.

Plus, my guy has been powered up. (Silver Surfer)And when you provide on panel proof that states he's actually FASTER than he was when he battled the Runner, I'll concede that their speed MIGHT be equal


How does lifting a side of a building compare to blowing apart a big asteroid?
Plus, I was talking about how hard he can hit, not how much he can lift.

How does breaking out of metal, also compare to crushing an asteroid? It doesn't.Except that Surfer DIDN'T blow the asteroid apart(or crush it), he bust out of it, and it shattered. So we have Surfer's feat of busting through a large chunk of rock. And Juggs feat of busting through a large chunk of solid steel. Which do you honestly think is more impressive? Rock<Steel (just ask Thing and Colossus)
Can you explain of what is happening there?
I really can't tell.Sorry bout that, I know it's hard to make out. That's the Juggernaut Destroying a skyscraper by running into it.

I never said he did anything physical.
I said he has beaten him alone. And I never said that Juggs beat him, I just showed that he was physically powerful enough to knock him on his ass.(Which I also think trumps the asteroid feat)


If he can absorb, and reflect, then what does that have to do with this, other than I can do both? Plus, I just wanted to answer your charcter talking about himself(or whatever) with Surfer talking abouut himself. Then I backed up his power absorbation, with scans.
Which you haven't backed up the "beyond infinate" quote.
Well I would back up the statement(it was actually infinite potential), Except that I don't really know what it means. I just thought I'd point out what someone who was in possession of Supes body, thought it was capable of.


Not the point.
The point was that I was showing Surfer's near limitless absorbing power, and he could absorb Supes energy.
Because it's not like he exploit's weaknesses or anything.
Yes and I'll admit to Surfer's near limitless absorbing abilities against any stationary energy body, that's not absorbing Surfer's own energy right back.

But I thought we had all of our character's abilitys.
Calm down, I said I didn't think those feats applied. Not that they didn't. We just kind of threw this whole thing together quickly, so NONE of us are very sure on how things should go. If you want even the physical abilities to carry over that's fine.
He was only like that, because his entire head was gone. I'm pretty sure, not everyone is awake when they don't have a head.That doesn't change the fact that he wasn't healing, until he was conscious. See, Manhunter has healing abilities, which means that he can CONSCIOUSLY heal wounds. So if I don't give you time to concentrate, you can't accomplish those feats. Juggs on the other hand, has a healing factor(like Wolverine's, but magic, and better). That means that it heals him, whether he thinks about it or not.

I was showing that since Surfer survived that vicious attack, and was still awake. I figured that it would leave yours in the dust. And yet Surfer is always susceptible to blunt force trauma. And my skeleton feat is right on par with that IMO

So he cancelled out all of his power? No! The constrct was still there, and it still had it's power.
Actually, if you look closely, the construct is crumbling, that's why you see kyle in the top right corner of the last panel, instead of the corner of the anvil. And it doesn't matter HOW MANY constructs you have, because once I start doing that, you won't be able to maintain ANY of them.


One thing. The Illusion fooled Galactus!
Galactus! Yes it did, because I'm sure it was very detailed. I never said that I would be able to tell the difference, I said that I would try to absorb 'all' of you, then whoever was left would be the real one. Surfers illusion was still made up of energy, so it is still subject to absorption.


Plus, how are you going to affect my central nervous system?Did you not read the scan with GL and Superman? THAT'S how he was messing with Kyles construct.


As well as you shouldn't. But if you aren't, then how powerful exactly are they?
I don't know to tell you the truth. But if you need another example, here's one of him wrestling an actual angel.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9712/asmodelsupes8zfjx2.jpg

So, to sum it up,
Your constructs and GL shield are gone, and you won't be able to sustain anymore(because of me messing with your nervous system)
Your illusions are gone(because I absorbed them)
You can't become intangible(until you prove otherwise)
I CAN absorb your energy(since your going to be distracted by your mess of a central nervous system, and the loss of your constructs and illusions)
I'm still stronger(Juggs plus Blue Supes powers amping me up)
I'm still faster

Yeah, my strategy stands as is.

Oh yeah, in regards to all your talk about psychic attacks, take a look at this example of Supes converting his body into psionic energy...
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4339/psychicenergyfy0.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2276/psychic2uw5.jpg
Now HOW is your guy going to hurt me with psychic attacks, when I'm MADE of the same stuff that your attacking with? Seems like trying to kill Iceman with intense cold to me.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's...Some forms. It also said that the guy couldn't phase like Suerman could, and couldn't bring people with him when he phases.

Originally posted by darthgoober
so... My character can actually phase. Plus, that ability would only really do anything if I was trying to phase through a wall. Otherwise if it did affect me, you would have to keep that ability on, while your going to attack me.
Plus, I don't see how I'm in immediate danger while I'm normal.
Since I have some GL body armour, MM's body armour, and some constructs, and some ilusions that your going to take your time to absorb.
Originally posted by darthgoober
As... But if your not going to take your shields down, then you would have to if you were to phase through anything.
I aslo have constructs, and battle armour.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not... I'm talking about having the same, or basically the same ability as power cosmic.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It... No, that's him along with all the Elders coming out. He never did anything by himself, and they had a field around them. It looks like they came along with Galactus.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey... When has he had the strongest wills?
I really doubt his will is up there with Hal's, plus he was still able to fight while that thing was going on.


Originally posted by darthgoober
Not....
I never said it was. But do you really think that Runner can do anything that Parallax could?

Originally posted by darthgoober
* the pic of Runner and Surfer*
And.... oh wait, even if he could affect Hal through his shield.
Or anything. I got willpower, wait, you want willpower feats, heres some.(and duribility)
Hal fights a powerful (and insane) Lord Malvolio of the Green Flame. He has no weakness to yellow and Hal still has his, he has no time limit, he has virtually no limits. The entire planet, was just a construction of his ring, his will power. Hal is punched through a planet, feels nothing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Action633-04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Action634-04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Action634-05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Action634-06.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
Now...Hes still traveling at light speed, so of course there would be those trails.
As I can tell, Nightcrawler can't travel at those speeds.

This scan kind of contridicts what your saying here. Even Runner said, that he felt like he got in a place before he even knew it.
http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=runnerthanos3kv3.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
And...Notice how Runner says (not Thanos!)
says that he didn't realize he had such speed.

http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=runnerthanos3kv3.jpg

Now, your assuming that Thanos knows all. He thought the cosmic cube was the greatest power. He also thought the IG was the greatest power.
Hmmm, he seemed to be wrong on both of these. It's almost like he's....wrong!

Originally posted by darthgoober
And...How about him actually using speed?
http://img477.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationsilversurfer03page4.jpg
I'm pretty sure, that anyone who doesn't use there speed, can be blitzed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Except...I'm not using Surfer here right now, I'm showing that Surfer has had experience in fighting powerhouses. Plus he also withstood an asteroid coming at him, that crushed him into another asteroid.
All in all, Champ,(even in his jobbing) is stronger than Juggs.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry... And.....
Juggs is unstoppable, this shouldn't have to do with his strength.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And...Spiderman has also knocked Thor on his ass, I guess that makes him right up there with Juggs, right?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well...So would you post this if you had him against Specter?
The same thing would apply here. His power is supposedly "beyond infinate", would that mean he is above Spectre?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes...Do you believe that Superman holds more energy than a red sun? I was showing that if he can absorb a red sun, then...... just a minute, when has Superman ever shown a feat of this nature?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Calm.. I am calm.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I...So this is kind of confusing.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That...Manhunter was just a drop of goop. How does a drop of goop think about healing?

Originally posted by darthgoober
And... Yes, but now with body armour, and shields blocking it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And... You think that healing skin is better than, pulling yourself together, from being turned into little balls, and being cut up, then healing in the next panel?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Actually...
With Hal's will?
Plus, those constructs were only there for testing him. Now what would happen if they were there for attacking him? Plus, there is also no indication about him making it useless. They just had Superman doing this to Kyle, Kyle wasn't focosed on attacking him, then he made Kyle lose focus. Now I'm sure in a fight, it might have went differently.
This is like your sun arguement.

Ok, and heres something else.
You think that Runner's ability and Supes affecting me is going to work?
First off I want to point out, the lack of Kyles shield.
http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=536647bw6.jpg

Now I want to show what happenes when you want to acces his memories telepathically. Now before I show the scan. I want to point out that I have my shield up. So you affecting me by your abilities, and affect me with Supes is null.
Hal has to put his shield down, so this Hector Hammel can acces his memories.
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledscanned178jd.jpg
Glad we got that out of the way.

Your not affecting my mind now.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes... Yes they are, but how is he going to know right off the bat, that they are illusions, and even if he does, he will be wasting time to absorb them, something your guy doesn't have.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Did... Yes, but even if you were abe to completely stop my ring.(which I have seen no indication, of any of this happening) I would still have Surfer and MM's powers.
Plus, how close would he have to be to do any of this? Because he was pretty close to Kyle.
Plus, even if it could work, aren't you sealed behind Juggernaut's helmet? And therefore your mind would be blocked.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I... That would be good.... if I wanted to wrestle your guy.
Plus, with him wrestling an angle, he almost seems too powerful to be in this tourny...

Originally posted by darthgoober
So...Is this because of Kyle not trying to hurt him, and the fact that he didn't negate them?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Your....
Just take a minute, and think out of what you said.
You took your time to absorb my illusions, thus serving there purpose.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You...
Yes I can. Martian Manhunter can take people with him when he goes through walls, and stuff. In the scan you posted, it said that the guy can't do that, and he doesn't have the same ability as Supes.
Plus, I have a ring that can fight off your ability, and even if you could, Supes only trapped the guy in the wall, so if you did that to me, you'de only trapped me inside your head, KOing your character. Then I could just cut off my arm, and a win for me.
Plus, my character will be traveling at however many thousands of times light speed, and with the ability to phase, so if you try and pull out that ability(and it somehow works) then your going to be too late.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I... But I'm not going to be distracted by anything, so I won't have to worry about this.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm...
Wouldn't Jugg's magic negate this?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm still faster Probably not.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah, my strategy stands as is. Good.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh... Hmmm... Wouldn't he still have a mind? That can be affected. And I still don't know exactly how this is going to affect me, since my mind is even more powerful than my other attributes.

OK, I'm going to address everything like this, because the whole 10000 character limit is a b*tch when you're trying to address specific quotes.

Now, the problem with your arguments, is that they're mostly based on ASSUMPTIONS, without ACTUAL proof. For instance, your assuming that the actions I described would take a lot of time. Why? Supes was able to break down GL's construct over the course of ONE panel. See...

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8079/536647ws6.jpg

And before you start going on about GL's shields being up, let me remind you that GL's have 'auto shields' that protect them from dangers that they aren't aware of. Kyle's auto shields did NOTHING to stop Supes from messing with his nervous system. So why do you assume that his shields would stop it from happening, when his auto shields didn't even register the effect? I think that a safer assumption, would be that the effect WILL work(because his auto shields did NOTHING), and that it will happen before your constructs can do anything to me(because they would be useless after one panel of comic book time). And for the record, Hal's will wouldn't matter in the least in this occurrence, because willpower doesn't factor in, when someone is tampering with the physical aspects of your brain.

You also assume that it will take a significant amount of time to absorb your illusions. Why? When the effect once again took ONE panel, remember...

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3779/absorbtion3je8.png

With the Runner's speed, I could easily do both of these things in an instant.

Another of your assumptions, is that Hal is way above Surfer in the 'will' department. Once again, why? IMO, your posted feat of Surfer being blasted to pieces, and then be able to pull himself together and be ready to fight one panel later was a tremendous show of will power. Do you have any showings of Surfer that suggest that his will is weak compared to Hal? And I never suggested that my ability would render you unable to fight, just that it would effect your fighting to the best of your ability(like it did with Surfer).

Now regarding your arguments concerning the Runners speed, take a close look at these...

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2191/thanosquest209ib9.jpg
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2448/thanosquest211nm0.jpg

Now if he were teleporting, there would be breaks in the speed trail left by his passing. It would be unavoidable, because he wouldn't be present at all the points in space for the trail to continue. And if you'll notice in the second scan, Thanos comments how he's never witnessed such SPEED. And that his instruments indicated that his SPEED had AT LEAST doubled when he turned around to head back. Now the funny thing, is that you keep on trying to pick apart THIS showing, when my most relevant showing of Superior speed is this...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3517/runnersurfer1oi5.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3594/runnersurfer2tr5.jpg

Now you are welcome to try to find an indication of his teleporting in his battle with Surfer, but I can just about guarantee that you'll fail.

Your also assuming that Champion(without his gem), is stronger than Juggernaut. Again, why? Juggs strength limit has never been established, and your big feat to prove his strength is him throwing an asteroid in space, where there's no gravity. MY showing of Juggs strength is him riping the corner off a building(which is about the size of the asteroid), and shaking it while under the effects of gravity. So I don't see how your showing is better.

Now regarding your intangibility, I'll go ahead and give you that you actually phase, on the grounds of his ability to phase objects with him(mostly because writers have been VERY inconsistent about his intangibility, some say he shifts his molecules to another dimension, some say he phases, etc.). But look at this again...

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6803/nophasingbw1.jpg

Now Supes says that he tried to contain that guy before, but was unable to because he had erected the wrong kind of shield. Now Supes had originally thought that Inkling phased like him, and created the appropriate shield for it. So that means that he's able to create a shield capable of stopping phased creatures(like you). Now another problem with your 'phase through my shield argument is that the Vision DOESN'T phase. His intangibility results from molecular alteration, which by your statements, your character doesn't do. Also, I'm going to need proof that Juggs forcefield was actually up when Vision pulled that little stunt, because it's normally down when he jobbs.

And as for your idea about BFR via black hole. Neither of us can prove whether or not the Runner got out of that black hole under his own power or with help. However, I just realized that I don't have to. See, by your own admission(and common knowledge), the Juggernaut is UNSTOPPABLE. Right? So what's to stop me from running right back out of a black hole? Think about it, the runners ability to traverse space, combined with the unstoppablility of the Juggernaut, suggest that I can do just that.

In response to this...
Originally posted by bigbran
Manhunter was just a drop of goop. How does a drop of goop think about healing?
Well, you tell me. It's YOUR scan, but you should look, cause it does.

Now, regarding our respective absorption abilities. I've already admitted that Surfer's feat with the sun, was indeed impressive. If nothing else it DID prove his tremendous capacity for storing energy. But none of that changes the fact that it was a stationary energy body. To my knowledge, Surfer has NEVER won a fight by absorbing all an opponents energy. He has absorbed their energy, I'm not denying that, but I don't think he was ever able to put them away through absorption alone. (Though if you can post a scan of an instance I'll be happy to acknowledge it, I've been looking for one for a while myself.)
Supes on the other hand, HAS put foes away through absorption ALONE. Would you like to see? Here you go...

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5858/adventuresofsuperman552146dxqm6.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7023/adventuresofsuperman552155tbto5.jpg

These are of course, my prior scans of his battle with Parasite. Here's another one(this time I think Parasite is amped up somehow, but I'm not really sure)...

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8547/superman127p09so7nb9.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4529/superman127p10xa6ch2.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4306/superman127p11qq5xu7.jpg

I'm not sure who this guy is, but it's still a showing of him taking someone out via absorption...

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4791/antherabsorptionhz3.jpg

And here's ANOTHER example of him overcoming having his energy drained, and then absorbing right back...

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3193/noabsorbtionuz2.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4986/absobtion2qh0.jpg


So to recap..
Mental attacks won't work(until you can prove that you can phase through Juggs forcefield).
Physical and energy attacks won't work(cause of Juggs and Supes force fields).
Your constructs are a no go since I'm messing with your brain(and it wouldn't matter if you had them with Juggs forcefield up).
BFR by black hole is out

Do you see what I'm getting at? The MOST you can argue for, is a stalemate, via your guy remaining intangible(except that as I said Supes has a shield to contain those too, but I don't really know if that would qualify as a win for me). You've given no evidence that your guy has what it takes to put me away by any means. While I've given proof that unless your guy remains intangible, he's going down HARD.

.

Originally posted by galan7777777
. here newavenger13!

Originally posted by newjak86
I have to agree with Val if he can do it let it fly He didn't do it under his own power.

Ok, I'll do this too.

Actually, if Supes was doing what you were saying, it happened more like in a page, than one panel. Because he started to say it back one page ago. And the construct was cracking before the so called "one panel"

Ok about these auto shields, let me tell you that if this were true. Then wouldn't there be a auto shield when Hal let down his shield? You see where I'm getting at? Plus, how would the ring sense any danger, when it knows that SUperman is a good guy? If this was the case, then the auto shield obviously doesn't protect against mind attacks. But I showed on oanel, that Hal needed to let down his shield to let someone access his memories. Plus I'll have my shield up, so I'm in the safe zone.

Ok, about the illusions, he would be taking time to absorb them, and time isn't something he has here. Plus, what does Runner have to do with absorbing it? I could see if they had to destroy it, but he has nothing to do with the absorbing.

Now, your acknowledging the Surfer healing feat. Before you said you would ignore that, because Surfer has been put down by brute force before. Anyway, when you have a healing factor, and willpower, and when your healing factor is so great, I really don't think that his will had too much to do with it. Plus, this still doesn't equate into him haveing a greater will.

Like I've said before, when he's running at over a lightspeed range, there shouldn't be too much indication of him transporting in the scene.
But, Runner even says, he feels faster, and that he has never known speed before this. Plus, he also said, that he feels like hes teleporting.
And when he says it, and Thanos says that's how it works, then theres obviously something going on there.

Surfers mind was being screwed with in that fight. Plus, how is this a better speed showing? Surfer barely fought back in that whole fight, and if Surfer isn't fighting back, that much, hes also getting his mind screwed with, it shouldn't be too hard too speedblitz him. Before you get defensive, I never said that Runner was slow, I just said, it wasn't a better speed feat.

Of course I can't find it, you know why, BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE THE GEM WHEN HE FOUGHT SURFER!!! SO how am I going to find where he teleports?

Champion also threw that "asteroid" in space, into a a bigger asteroid, which caused an explosion, and should have hurt Surfer.(by the way your selling Surfer) Plus, how does lifting a corner of a building, that should have fallen apart, and how is brick as heavy as a monsterous piece of rock? (even in space) Plus, he also threw this rock, around like nothing.
Ok, since Champ is a jobber, heres something else.
Heres Glads destroying a planet in 3 punches.
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8620/gladiatorvsplanet10tq.jpg
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/6690/gladiatorvsplanet24rd.jpg
Now here is the same Glads, getting put in a headlock by Surfer.
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2195/gladiatorvssilversurfer029iz.jpg
Now, the actual purpose of this is to show, that Surfer can and has dealt with powerhouses before. And, he can duke it out, with your guy, if neccisary. I'm not saying he will, but he has fought much stronger guys than Juggernaut. Unless of course you can show me a scan of Juggs destroying a planet...
Now, I want to show you something big.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5396939
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5396958
There, you heard it from Hulk. He even admits that Norrin is stronger than him. So Surfer isn't in as much danger as you first thought.

Now here is a instance of how durible Surfer is, since you don't think he is.
http://img42.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc81&image=82724_all9.jpg
http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc137&image=82728_all10.jpg
He survived the planet destroying attack unphased, while Morg gets koed. Now that's duribilty. If he can survive that unscaved, then it's going to take some more damage than what you think. Plus, he also has body armour, and a GL shield. So ya.

I just want to point out how easily Surfer can phase.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/ss_enslavers_43.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1996_123_10.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer2-06a.jpg

I'm just going to play along here.(not saying your strategy is going to work)
Now, you say, that Supes had to find out which shield to use? Now how is he going to have time to make mistakes, when my guy can travel at many thousands of lightspeeds for hour? Plus, how is he going to react to my shield when I have the ability to travel so fast?( I'm not saying he's too slow to hit me, I'm saying he's going to be too slow to react with his shield, my guy isn't going to staop, and say, get me, by the way)
But, really, how is he going to acurately get me incased in his shield(if it will work) and how i he going to know what to use, right away?

Ok, about his force field, neither of us can ever prove when he has had it on or not. But I'm going to show you a instance of when it is up.
Here Thor is getting a little too close to Juggs, even when JUGGS ADMITS HE HAS HIS FORCE FIELD UP!
http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thorxe6.jpg
Ok, so heres a little later, after Juggs says he has his force feild up.
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kineticenergyno2cw5.jpg
Hmm... Thor managed to get his helmet off, and he managed to hit him, even when Juggs said he had his force field up.
So he really isn't untouchable.


No, your right:
"Neither of us can prove whether or not the Runner got out of that black hole under his own power or with help."
So why would you bring it up?
"However, I just realized that I don't have to."
Really?
"See, by your own admission(and common knowledge), the Juggernaut is UNSTOPPABLE. "
Yes, yes I did, but I meant unstoppable to a degree, a building isn't going to stop him, but lets say, a oh, I don't know, a War Hulk might!
Plus, the black hole was there, to see how your going to react to it.
Your still going to be pulled in, and if you take too long to gt out, that's a bfr, my friend.
I'm just pointing out the possbilities.

First of all the drop of goop, even if he was concious, was able to heal completely. If he's still awake, from being a drop, then how am I going to be put down?

He has used this agains Hulk. Plus I'll show you a instance of a being that has Glads power, here Surfer overloads him.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-10.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-11.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-12.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-13.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-14.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-15.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-16.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-17.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-18.jpg
So, ya. He's quite the powerhouse.

Those scans are purty. But I have shown someone who is over 50x as powerful as Glads, getting overloaded with energy, so even if your going to try and do that, I'll just have to blow you away. There happy?

Ok, I have shown, Thor getting really close to Juggs, and got his helmet off, even when Juggs admitted that he had his shield off.
So my mental attcks are on!
Ok, how are you going to hit me, when you have admitted that your not going to take your shield down? And you have also shown how big the force feild that you want Supes to have is. Plus, how are you going to use your forcefield, when you also want to use your special phasing attack.(not that you will use it, because it won't work)

My constructs are still on, because of the shield(a body shield, unlike yours) I'm going to have on. Plus, your right they won't affect you, but they will serve as quite the distraction. And if you do go against your battle plan, and take your shields down, they will help me out even more.
The black hole, MIGHT work, since, your going to have to rearange so you can get out of there.

Ok, now, how am I going down hard? I've shown a guy that had the Uni-power (and a lot of other powers) get the stops by Surfer alone!! Imagine what would have happened if he went against a GL, and Surfer.
So, I'de really like to see you try and absorb my power.
Plus, my duribility alone, without shields, can take some punishment, but then you add, body armour, and powerful GL shields, and my guy is taking quite a lot of damage.
I can also stop your absorbtion, and absorb powers myself.
I can also mindrape you.
I have shown exactly, how "great" Juggernat's shield is.
And my intangibility is definately not going to get trapped. (this is still quite up in the air)
Plus, your not just going to smack me around like you think.
Unless Juggernaut can destroy planets now, but even then, I was Surfer was still taking it to Glads.

Is this my last post?

Are we supposed to vote, like the old tourneys?

Originally posted by Soljer
Are we supposed to vote, like the old tourneys?
NON OFFICIAL

Only if your in the AMC, we're deciding who we want to send to the upcoming tourney.

Originally posted by darthgoober
NON OFFICIAL

Only if your in the AMC, we're deciding who we want to send to the upcoming tourney. Is that how it goes?

Originally posted by bigbran
Is that how it goes?
Isn't it? I thought we were only going to let members, and specific outside judges vote.

Don't know.

If anyone cares; I'd like to vote, .

Originally posted by Soljer
If anyone cares, I'd like to vote, . Sure, go ahead.( is this ok)

It doesn't matter to me, just let Sci fi know, since he'll be tallying the votes.

Wow, I actually didn't notice the cracks, that's my bad. BUT, notice that Kyle doesn't notice until the panel when it actually breaks down, so even though it took longer than I originally thought, it didn't take much more. And in regards to your comments about the Hal's auto shields, let me remind you that he consciously took his shields down. So of course his auto shields were off. I seriously doubt that Kyle would up and decide to go around with his auto shields off without a good reason(like the one Hal had).

And why is it going to take extra time to absorb your illusions? Why not just absorb while I'm heading toward you? It's not like I have to stop on the way.

And I never ignored the Surfer feat, I just said that despite his healing abilities, he is still susceptible to blunt force trauma(which he is). Wolverine can heal from just about anything, but he can STILL be knocked out. And even if I don't KO you for long, that still counts as a win for me.

As for the Runners speed. No matter how fast he was going(light-speed or not), there would still be breaks in his speed trail, if he teleported. A speed trail wouldn't continue on it's own, without someone present to make it. Now look again...
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1151/runnerthanos3sc6.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/4859/runnerthanos8mb3.jpg
Notice that the Runner says that he sometimes gets there before he realizes he's started running. Well you can interpret that anyway you like, but it sounds to me that he's talking about when he's actually traveling, NOT when he's fighting Thanos. And notice Thanos's statement...
"That's why you sometimes arrived at a destination before you realized you were even heading for it", now think about that. If he were teleporting, then wouldn't he have SKIPPED the area of space around Thanos and ended up on the other side? How would he have shredded Thanos's craft if he were teleporting past it?
And of course Surfer didn't fight back much when he and the Runner were fighting, that's what it means to be the subject of a speed blitz. Having your opponent attack you so fast, that you cant properly respond. You didn't see Surfer utilizing his speed because the Runner was so fast it made the Surfer seem slow.

And with Champions asteroid feat...
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9454/champ2gq5yt8.jpg
Now first I want you to notice, that THE ASTEROID DIDN'T CAUSE AN EXPLOSION. It slammed into the other, but there was no explosion present. I would also like to point out that in space, where there's no gravity, the THING could have thrown that asteroid with the same effect(now I'll admit that the Champion outclasses the Thing in strength, but he still could have done it. And Champion, jobbs to just about EVERYONE. Don't She Hulk and Thing have victories over him?

Now about Gladiator... we all know that Glads strength fluctuates based on his confidence, so how do you know how strong he was right then? Think about it, he goes from being able to stand toe to toe with Surfer, to being beaten by Cannonball. Glads is simply not a good example to use. And in regards to him with the Uni-Force, is it actually stated that he's 50x more powerful, or is that a guess based on how powerful it made Spiderman? Because I want you to consider how much more powerful Spiderman's symbiot made him in comparison to his base, and then consider how much more powerful it made Eddie Brock to his base. Do you see what I'm getting at? Power ups like that always increase a weaker being more than they do a stronger being. So unless it's actually stated that he's 50x more powerful, then it seems kinda unreasonable to assume that.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6631/1zi0.jpg
Now look closely at the panel. Do YOU see Surfer? Do you see indication of what's actually forcing Hulk back? Cause I don't. Yes it COULD be Surfer doing it physically. It COULD also be a forcefield, telekinesis, or any number of other abilities possessed by the Surfer. Because Hulk certainly doesn't know. Notice he says "SOMETHING forcing me back. SOMETHING stronger-stronger than Hulk!". Well EVERYONE knows that the power cosmic is stronger than the Hulk, that's a no brainer. But if you want to use Hulk as an example...
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/166/overpowershulkxv9.jpg
Notice that Juggs has Hulk physically overpowered, and Hulk has to throw mud in Juggs face to keep from being drowned(which is really funny if you think about it).

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8082/82724all9zl8.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5985/82728all10bt0.jpg
Now if you'll notice on the first page, both combatants are getting ready to attack. And it's the combined attack that destroys the planet. Now doesn't it make more sense that Surfer's attack was stronger than Morg's, and it was his attack that hurt Morg, NOT the planet. So it's not much of a durability feat, since Morg's attack was redirected by Surfer's, and Surfer didn't actually get hit with it(which would explain why he was unphased).
I'm not saying that Surfer's not durable, he's just no where near as durable as Juggs. Need proof? OK...
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6566/thor161202tfgr1.jpg
Now this is what happens when Galactus(the guy who created Surfer and WAAAAY outclasses him in power) is subject to a Godblast from Thor.
And this...
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5489/godblastmx3.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2820/godblast2bg7.jpg
...is what happens when Juggs is hit with the SAME blast. Notice that when the ground collapses under Juggs, he still wants MORE. Now your not honestly suggesting that Surfer is more durable than Galactus are you?

And your Thor scans don't really help your case. In fact the first actually helps mine. See...
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1209/thorxe6pu3.jpg
Notice that Thor actually says he's actually striking FULL FORCE, and Juggs says it doesn't even tickle(also notice, his helmet is still COMPLETELY intact).
Now in this second scan...
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4794/kineticenergyno2cw5ek8.jpg
Notice that the strap of the hammer is actually TOUCHING Juggs skin. That means his forcefield isn't up. Now I can't help but notice, that you didn't post the scan where his helmet actually came off. Well because of that, we can't really say whether or not his force field was up when it came off now can we(and I find that doubtful, since we've already seen it take a full on shot from Thor and a Godblast, and still remain intact)? And I notice that you keep asking how I will attack with my forcefield up. But with the Runners speed and reflexes, I'll be able to have the forcefield up, throw a punch, and put it back up no problem. the Juggernaut doesn't have superspeed, I do.

Originally posted by bigbran
Yes, yes I did, but I meant unstoppable to a degree, a building isn't going to stop him, but lets say, a oh, I don't know, a War Hulk might!
Well see, I was unaware that we were talking about a black hole that was amped up by Celestial Tech(like War Hulk was). But I seriously doubt that even War Hulk would've been able to stop him if Juggs was ALSO backed by Blue Supes power AND the Power Primordial, since he had a hard time doing it to regular Juggs.

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/6342/volcano2om5qtga7.jpg
Pay close attention, MM is unconscious, until he is AWAKENED, via telepathy. And if your unconscious I WIN. It doesn't matter if you can heal yourself afterwards, the match is over.
And again with the arm...
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4984/regrow11chpj3.jpg
He AWOKE. So he was unconscious.

And overloading won't work if I were releasing energy as fast as you were pouring it in. Not that you would be able to because of Juggs forcefield.

Now as for the rest...
Thor getting close to Juggs means NOTHING. There's a BIG difference between being close, and actually touching(just ask Rogue).

You NEVER showed thor getting his helmet off, when Juggs forcefield was up. I would like to add that it's more likely that Thor could get through Juggs defense's than your guy. Because Thors attacks are magical, and NONE of your guys have access to mystic abilities. So your mental attacks are OFF.

And I already said that I would take my shield down to phase, cause then I don't need it. I CAN put it back up again at superspeed if need be.

Your constructs are GONE along with your construct shields.

The black hole WON'T work.

You STILL haven't shown a single instance of Surfer using energy absorption to put someone down for the count, while I have shown at least THREE instances of Supes doing just that.

You STILL haven't come up with anything RESEMBLING proof of your intangibility working with Juggs force field up, or proven that what ever form of intangibility might work is one you have access to.

So once again the most you can argue for is a stalemate on the off chance that my guy can't affect you when your intangible. When I've shown that it's more likely that he can.




Now to bring this match to a close, I would just like to point out that you haven't actually had your guy take an action, outside of your prep phase. THAT means that YOU were standing around thinking about how you MIGHT be able to beat me, while I took down your constructs(and GL shields), absorbed your illusions, phased through any other shields, drained your energy, converted it to matter, and then beat the SH*T out of your guy. Why was I able to do this? Because Hal Silverhunter was to busy basking in the grandeur of himself to ACTUALLY attack me. While Kal-el the Running Juggernaut was EXECUTING the strategy that I issued in my first post! And YOU said I wouldn't have time to do it all. CHECKMATE!

Sorry bigbran, but I basically caught you monologuing. In a tournament you have to state what your characters ARE doing. Not just what they're capable of.

Bump... so now that this is over.... what does everyone think?

I'll be PM'ing some comments to goober because he asked for my advice for the tourney. Interesting stuff though.

I'll refrain from too many comments here, but in general it was some good debating. An over-reliance on scans occasionally (they're good, but should compliment the argument, not become the entire argument). And long posts get confusing...you have to make sure your audience knows what points of your opponent you're responding to.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sorry bigbran, but I basically caught you monologuing. In a tournament you have to state what your characters ARE doing. Not just what they're capable of. Sure... tell me that after...
Originally posted by DigiMark007
An over-reliance on scans occasionally (they're good, but should compliment the argument, not become the entire argument). But, you have to prove what your characters can do... not just by what they should be able to do...
After looking back though... a lot of scans were used.

Thanks for the tips (well they were to Goober, but, I'm on).